Cryptic is not doing anything uncommon. The C-Store might offer more services and items than other developers do but it is far from being dependant on or it makes any ingame difference. Whether to purchase new content via C-Store is up to everyones consideration as is any expansion purchase. Most of the MMOs go with box price+monthly_fee+paid_content_update+paid_services.
So what's the problem in Cryptic case?
My problem with Cryptic is that they launched a sub based game with minimal content, to leave room to sell you what other games give you, and then lied about it on day one, as I have demonstrated to you clearly.
And yet you defend them, and this business model, just because it's not 'uncommon'... It's like you want to be ripped off.
Listen, Cryptic aside, a lot of Devs love the MT model because it makes them more money, and that money can only only come from you and other players.
In other words, you are arguing fro a more expensive game experience. Why would you do that? Why, as a customer, do you want to pay them more for the same thing?
Whats the motivating factor to buy items in a shop, rather then playing the game to discover them, anyhow? Laziness? Greed? Stupidity? Jealousy? I don't get it.
Why, as a customer, and a gamer (as I guess you would consider yourself), wouldnt you rather play the game you had bought and win the rewards in it rather then going to a shop and buying that regard? What satisfaction is there in that?
It amazes me that so many have fallen so quickly to this BS business model for games... It's like the hype and spin from the devs has just been sucked up without even thinking.
You could just not use the store?
For me personally, it`s cause i`m paying a sub for that content . That`s what subs are there for. F2P with cash shops is fine, it`s how they make there money.
Sure WOW has a shop, but that is for account related stuff, like moving your char, and such, and requires a person to actually do the work, normally.
Items can be automated, and requires no person. So it`s just money grabbing for the sake of money grabbing!
Played WOW (5 years), AOC, AO, EQ2,AC2, Horizons, Saga of Ryzom, SWG, CO, STO(Beta),ROM, Allods, and many other F2P titles. Asl been in beta for many of the main titles and played countless SP games. I have been gaming for 15+ years!
Cryptic is not doing anything uncommon. The C-Store might offer more services and items than other developers do but it is far from being dependant on or it makes any ingame difference. Whether to purchase new content via C-Store is up to everyones consideration as is any expansion purchase. Most of the MMOs go with box price+monthly_fee+paid_content_update+paid_services.
So what's the problem in Cryptic case?
My problem with Cryptic is that they launched a sub based game with minimal content, to leave room to sell you what other games give you, and then lied about it on day one, as I have demonstrated to you clearly.
And yet you defend them, and this business model, just because it's not 'uncommon'... It's like you want to be ripped off.
Listen, Cryptic aside, a lot of Devs love the MT model because it makes them more money, and that money can only only come from you and other players.
In other words, you are arguing fro a more expensive game experience. Why would you do that? Why, as a customer, do you want to pay them more for the same thing?
Whats the motivating factor to buy items in a shop, rather then playing the game to discover them, anyhow? Laziness? Greed? Stupidity? Jealousy? I don't get it.
Why, as a customer, and a gamer (as I guess you would consider yourself), wouldnt you rather play the game you had bought and win the rewards in it rather then going to a shop and buying that regard? What satisfaction is there in that?
It amazes me that so many have fallen so quickly to this BS business model for games... It's like the hype and spin from the devs has just been sucked up without even thinking.
You could just not use the store?
No, you see it dosent work like that.
look, I buy a sub based game and I have access to everything in that game based on my skill and effort.
I buy STO and I don't, yet they charge me the same for the box and sub.
The very existance of the store, if I use it or not personally, impacts on my game experience and the value of the product I bought.
Originally posted by vesavius Answer my questions directly, and maybe I will answer yours.
Originally posted by Gdemami We are the Fanbois. Put on your blinders and surrender your whines. We will add your niche and gaming distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
Originally posted by Dragon71UK For me personally, it`s cause i`m paying a sub for that content . That`s what subs are there for. F2P with cash shops is fine, it`s how they make there money. Sure WOW has a shop, but that is for account related stuff, like moving your char, and such, and requires a person to actually do the work, normally. Items can be automated, and requires no person. So it`s just money grabbing for the sake of money grabbing!
You pay for content with purchase fee and additional fee for expansions. Subs payments are for access to service.
F2P cash shop items affect your gameplay, not the items from C-Store, it is just fluff and services.
Answer my questions directly, and maybe I will answer yours.
Originally posted by Gdemami
We are the Fanbois. Put on your blinders and surrender your whines. We will add your niche and gaming distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
/sigh...
And I wonder how Farmville has 69 million users and makes £600k a day in revenue...
I guess the corperations really have come up with a way to monetize the twin commodities of dumb and gullible.
It might be getting more common, but this is getting ridiculous. This "trend" towards having to pay extra for everything has to be stopped. I mean, other games manage to do fine without an item shop.
We are paying more and more for unfinished games that have less and less content. Make me a game I really -and I mean really- enjoy and I would consider paying more than 15 for a subscription. But then, no item shop, no unfinished game and constant updates.
No matter if you think it's common business practice or not, it's either subscription OR item shop for me. In between, even if it is fluff items, is not acceptable in my opinion.
I would like to comment on Eve Online's RMT shop, and as much as I love Eve lets be honest. it has one, and possibly it is the worst of all. There is nothing to stop you converting your real money through the PLEX system and and buying absolutely any item/ship in-game.
The only reason we don't complain about it is because we as players can also do the opposite and convert our in game currency into real money, by using the system to pay for our subscription.
That seems to be an acceptable RMT model as it works both ways. I imagine that CCP in the end makes more money because people who can't pay earn there sub in-game and those who want shinies without working for them just buy them.
I really love Eve but any claims that it doesnt have RMT are a bit hypocritical, however maybe the point isnt that RMT is bad but that it only empowers the Devs and we the players get a feeling that we are being ripped off.
For me personally, it`s cause i`m paying a sub for that content . That`s what subs are there for. F2P with cash shops is fine, it`s how they make there money.
Sure WOW has a shop, but that is for account related stuff, like moving your char, and such, and requires a person to actually do the work, normally.
Items can be automated, and requires no person. So it`s just money grabbing for the sake of money grabbing!
You pay for content with purchase fee and additional fee for expansions. Subs payments are for access to service.
F2P cash shop items affect your gameplay, not the items from C-Store, it is just fluff and services.
I dont expect just access to the service for my $15/month
Subscription should include
- access to server/services
- support
- bug fixes
- contiuned development = more content! (major expansions aside. I.E., not just one zone or playable race)
I would like to comment on Eve Online's RMT shop, and as much as I love Eve lets be honest. it has one, and possibly it is the worst of all. There is nothing to stop you converting your real money through the PLEX system and and buying absolutely any item/ship in-game. The only reason we don't complain about it is because we as players can also do the opposite and convert our in game currency into real money, by using the system to pay for our subscription. That seems to be an acceptable RMT model as it works both ways. I imagine that CCP in the end makes more money because people who can't pay earn there sub in-game and those who want shinies without working for them just buy them. I really love Eve but any claims that it doesnt have RMT are a bit hypocritical, however maybe the point isnt that RMT is bad but that it only empowers the Devs and we the players get a feeling that we are being ripped off.
I would like to comment on Eve Online's RMT shop, and as much as I love Eve lets be honest. it has one, and possibly it is the worst of all. There is nothing to stop you converting your real money through the PLEX system and and buying absolutely any item/ship in-game. The only reason we don't complain about it is because we as players can also do the opposite and convert our in game currency into real money, by using the system to pay for our subscription. That seems to be an acceptable RMT model as it works both ways. I imagine that CCP in the end makes more money because people who can't pay earn there sub in-game and those who want shinies without working for them just buy them. I really love Eve but any claims that it doesnt have RMT are a bit hypocritical, however maybe the point isnt that RMT is bad but that it only empowers the Devs and we the players get a feeling that we are being ripped off.
No, my argument is that RMT is bad
Meh rmt isn't bad. Now if you had to use it to stay competitive in a game then yeah I totally agree it is bad.
(major expansions aside. I.E., not just one zone or playable race)
The problem with that logic is that Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King costed $40 each... while the two races for sale in STO cost about $3 total... so practically speaking, if one fair so's the other (and that's assuming you COULD make the argument that those races both should have been included with retail prodcut, and affect gameplay)
Originally posted by urbanmech I dont expect just access to the service for my $15/month Subscription should include - access to server/services - support - bug fixes - contiuned development = more content! (major expansions aside. I.E., not just one zone or playable race)
Truth is, acess to service is the only thing you are paying for according to most EULA actualy.
As for the rest of your points, they might somewhat fall under some paragraphs but I wouldn't bet on it.
I would like to comment on Eve Online's RMT shop, and as much as I love Eve lets be honest. it has one, and possibly it is the worst of all. There is nothing to stop you converting your real money through the PLEX system and and buying absolutely any item/ship in-game. The only reason we don't complain about it is because we as players can also do the opposite and convert our in game currency into real money, by using the system to pay for our subscription. That seems to be an acceptable RMT model as it works both ways. I imagine that CCP in the end makes more money because people who can't pay earn there sub in-game and those who want shinies without working for them just buy them. I really love Eve but any claims that it doesnt have RMT are a bit hypocritical, however maybe the point isnt that RMT is bad but that it only empowers the Devs and we the players get a feeling that we are being ripped off.
No, my argument is that RMT is bad
Meh rmt isn't bad. Now if you had to use it to stay competitive in a game then yeah I totally agree it is bad.
No, despite what the devs, and current fashionable lazy thinking, have told you, MT is bad.
Any payment system that works out worse and more expensive for the customer for the same product or play experience is bad.
Comments
My problem with Cryptic is that they launched a sub based game with minimal content, to leave room to sell you what other games give you, and then lied about it on day one, as I have demonstrated to you clearly.
And yet you defend them, and this business model, just because it's not 'uncommon'... It's like you want to be ripped off.
Listen, Cryptic aside, a lot of Devs love the MT model because it makes them more money, and that money can only only come from you and other players.
In other words, you are arguing fro a more expensive game experience. Why would you do that? Why, as a customer, do you want to pay them more for the same thing?
Whats the motivating factor to buy items in a shop, rather then playing the game to discover them, anyhow? Laziness? Greed? Stupidity? Jealousy? I don't get it.
Why, as a customer, and a gamer (as I guess you would consider yourself), wouldnt you rather play the game you had bought and win the rewards in it rather then going to a shop and buying that regard? What satisfaction is there in that?
It amazes me that so many have fallen so quickly to this BS business model for games... It's like the hype and spin from the devs has just been sucked up without even thinking.
You could just not use the store?
For me personally, it`s cause i`m paying a sub for that content . That`s what subs are there for. F2P with cash shops is fine, it`s how they make there money.
Sure WOW has a shop, but that is for account related stuff, like moving your char, and such, and requires a person to actually do the work, normally.
Items can be automated, and requires no person. So it`s just money grabbing for the sake of money grabbing!
Played WOW (5 years), AOC, AO, EQ2,AC2, Horizons, Saga of Ryzom, SWG, CO, STO(Beta),ROM, Allods, and many other F2P titles. Asl been in beta for many of the main titles and played countless SP games. I have been gaming for 15+ years!
My problem with Cryptic is that they launched a sub based game with minimal content, to leave room to sell you what other games give you, and then lied about it on day one, as I have demonstrated to you clearly.
And yet you defend them, and this business model, just because it's not 'uncommon'... It's like you want to be ripped off.
Listen, Cryptic aside, a lot of Devs love the MT model because it makes them more money, and that money can only only come from you and other players.
In other words, you are arguing fro a more expensive game experience. Why would you do that? Why, as a customer, do you want to pay them more for the same thing?
Whats the motivating factor to buy items in a shop, rather then playing the game to discover them, anyhow? Laziness? Greed? Stupidity? Jealousy? I don't get it.
Why, as a customer, and a gamer (as I guess you would consider yourself), wouldnt you rather play the game you had bought and win the rewards in it rather then going to a shop and buying that regard? What satisfaction is there in that?
It amazes me that so many have fallen so quickly to this BS business model for games... It's like the hype and spin from the devs has just been sucked up without even thinking.
You could just not use the store?
No, you see it dosent work like that.
look, I buy a sub based game and I have access to everything in that game based on my skill and effort.
I buy STO and I don't, yet they charge me the same for the box and sub.
The very existance of the store, if I use it or not personally, impacts on my game experience and the value of the product I bought.
Tell me why you would be happy about that.
If it makes them more money, it means people find worthy to spend their money there. I assume they do it willing and intentionlay, I have to ask:
Who likes the MT here then? The devs or players?
You are still arguing for a more expensive business model, and you have ignored all my questions in that same heavily edited post you quote here.
Answer my questions directly, and maybe I will answer yours.
You pay for content with purchase fee and additional fee for expansions. Subs payments are for access to service.
F2P cash shop items affect your gameplay, not the items from C-Store, it is just fluff and services.
/sigh...
And I wonder how Farmville has 69 million users and makes £600k a day in revenue...
I guess the corperations really have come up with a way to monetize the twin commodities of dumb and gullible.
It might be getting more common, but this is getting ridiculous. This "trend" towards having to pay extra for everything has to be stopped. I mean, other games manage to do fine without an item shop.
We are paying more and more for unfinished games that have less and less content. Make me a game I really -and I mean really- enjoy and I would consider paying more than 15 for a subscription. But then, no item shop, no unfinished game and constant updates.
No matter if you think it's common business practice or not, it's either subscription OR item shop for me. In between, even if it is fluff items, is not acceptable in my opinion.
I would like to comment on Eve Online's RMT shop, and as much as I love Eve lets be honest. it has one, and possibly it is the worst of all. There is nothing to stop you converting your real money through the PLEX system and and buying absolutely any item/ship in-game.
The only reason we don't complain about it is because we as players can also do the opposite and convert our in game currency into real money, by using the system to pay for our subscription.
That seems to be an acceptable RMT model as it works both ways. I imagine that CCP in the end makes more money because people who can't pay earn there sub in-game and those who want shinies without working for them just buy them.
I really love Eve but any claims that it doesnt have RMT are a bit hypocritical, however maybe the point isnt that RMT is bad but that it only empowers the Devs and we the players get a feeling that we are being ripped off.
You pay for content with purchase fee and additional fee for expansions. Subs payments are for access to service.
F2P cash shop items affect your gameplay, not the items from C-Store, it is just fluff and services.
I dont expect just access to the service for my $15/month
Subscription should include
- access to server/services
- support
- bug fixes
- contiuned development = more content! (major expansions aside. I.E., not just one zone or playable race)
No, my argument is that RMT is bad
No, my argument is that RMT is bad
Meh rmt isn't bad. Now if you had to use it to stay competitive in a game then yeah I totally agree it is bad.
The problem with that logic is that Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King costed $40 each... while the two races for sale in STO cost about $3 total... so practically speaking, if one fair so's the other (and that's assuming you COULD make the argument that those races both should have been included with retail prodcut, and affect gameplay)
Active: WoW
Semi-retired: STO
Fully retired: UO, EQ, AC, SWG, FFXI, DDO:EU, PoTBS, AoC, EvE
Tried: EQ2, Tabula Rasa, Auto-Assault, Isteria, LotRO, Wizard 101
Looking forward to: Star Citizen
Truth is, acess to service is the only thing you are paying for according to most EULA actualy.
As for the rest of your points, they might somewhat fall under some paragraphs but I wouldn't bet on it.
No, my argument is that RMT is bad
Meh rmt isn't bad. Now if you had to use it to stay competitive in a game then yeah I totally agree it is bad.
No, despite what the devs, and current fashionable lazy thinking, have told you, MT is bad.
Any payment system that works out worse and more expensive for the customer for the same product or play experience is bad.
Why wouldnt you think that?
Well, it doesnt workout mork expensive, as I in fact pay for my subscription by making enough money in-game. Its effectively free to play for me