Question to the OP: How long have you been playing? Because it sounds like you just started playing and then the games feels all fresh and fun. But only after maybe 30-40 hours you will notice that there is nothing new to see or do and you are pretty much repeating the same cycle of missions as you did before. Champions Online was the same and so is this game, the surface looks nice but it has almost zero depth. Play the game a while and then get back to us if you still think the game is a good MMO and not just a single player game with 50, or so, hours of gameplay.
all mmos are teh same. wow quests were much the same at 20 as they were at 50 or 60. before that it was camp a spot and grind mobs for 50 hours a level.
I dont agree at all. Most MMOs I have played, and I have played many, had much more varied content, and just generally more content, than STO has. Vanguard had diplomacy missions, Eve had trading, mining etc, WoW had multiple leveling paths with classes that had a very different playstyle.
In STO everything feels pretty much the same. Science, Cruiser, Escorts are fundamentally the same. They "defeat" enemies by doing and taking damage and all weapons have the same range. Crowd control is very limited (and unneccessary), range is all the same (so no close range ships and no long range ships). All the ships can fit the same type of weapons so no ship that can fit a superpowered beam laser and no ship that can fit a super powered torpedoe launcher (all ships can).
Furthermore, STO has no real crafting. The economy is meaningless as you can get pretty much everything you need as drops or purchase it from NPCs. There is no raid content, everything can be soloed or done in automatched teams. Game is so easy so there is no need to play a particulary role, its all zerging and blasting everything in sight.
Also there is no PvP territorial control and the PvE fleet missions are basically the same: Blow X enemies up, get Y item etc, zero depth.
But yes, lack of depth is a problem in many MMOs but I think STO takes the prize. Even CO had those archenemies to give some variation but STO has nothing like that. It's all pretty much the same from grade 1-50 and zero endgame content. Not broken, or flawed endgame content, ZERO endgame content, none, nada, zilch.
What STO have is story, where other mmo don't. You really need to read in STO, and remember a lot of things because storylines take lots of quests, one thing might appear at lvl 5 and then reappear and surprise you at lvl 20. and ifyou watched and remember series and films, the coolness factor increases a lot.
It's more like the experience you have in single player games where the story usually is the key element of the game.
I think SWTOR will take that same approach, putting the importance in the storyline.
I'm more for the sandbox style game, where players really write the story (eve is my fav mmo), but story as a center factor in mmo is really refreshing.
True, STOs space combat is 10x more fun than in Eve. But combat alone does not make an MMO. AoC comes to mind.... But atleast AoC has end-game PvP raids.
Actually AoC PvP was broken on launch and massive siege PvP to bugged to make any fun. Also probably worth mentioning that WoW had server issues straight after US launch, not a whole lot of endgame content and gaps in the quest content that meant you had to grind your way up at least some of the way to 60. Yet they patch and fix the game and it becomes a hit. STO is a unique gem of an mmo. Not all may get it, but I think it will earn a loyal fan base that will make it a long-term success.
True, STOs space combat is 10x more fun than in Eve. But combat alone does not make an MMO. AoC comes to mind.... But atleast AoC has end-game PvP raids.
Actually AoC PvP was broken on launch and massive siege PvP to bugged to make any fun. Also probably worth mentioning that WoW had server issues straight after US launch, not a whole lot of endgame content and gaps in the quest content that meant you had to grind your way up at least some of the way to 60. Yet they patch and fix the game and it becomes a hit. STO is a unique gem of an mmo. Not all may get it, but I think it will earn a loyal fan base that will make it a long-term success.
I seriously question anyone's honesty when they say the game is nothing but combat. Either they are lying or they completely ignored the diplomatic quests that are given by Admiral Quinn,Sulu or the ones given by the alien for exploring star clusters. Last night I did 6 missions and only 2 involved direct combat. Of course the person you are quoting hasn't bothered to come back into his own "STO isn't a MMORPG" thread after having his so-called facts blown up in his face.
Default Release Notes - Feb 11, 2010 The Borg Return
Level 43+ Federation players now have access to missions versus the Borg. Talk to Admiral Quinn and use the transwarp conduit in the Risa to rendezvous at the Fleet Staging area to begin.
These missions include: - 3 new Borg related episodes - Repeatable Star Cluster mission against Borg threats - Deep Space encounters with Patrolling Borg fleets - A Daily Star Cluster mission which grants Marks of Exploration for use at an exclusive store in the Staging Fleet to gear up for upcoming Raidisode content.
In addition, level 43+ Klingon players now have access to repeatable Borg related Klingon Defense missions.
Level 43+ players of both factions also gain access to Daily PVP missions which grant Marks of Honor which can be redeemed for exclusive top end gear at stores on K7/Ganalda respectively.
This update sets the stage for additional Borg conflicts which will be released in coming weeks.
This is what i was talking about. They can and apparently do focus on content now, instead of just talking about it. It might not be much, but atleast we are seeing them doing something. Which is all i want to be honest. The worst thing is a company announcing content, but not saying when, or what, and then shutting up and not saying anything anymore for a few months only to then finally announce a halloween special or some crap.
Also there is non combat content, not enough to apease the hardcore fans, but enough to annoy me already. Yes i get it this is Star Trek, yes i know the actual fighting didnt get alot of screentime in the shows. But one has to be aware that that was due to budget limits more than because they didnt want to show combat. It was always implied that there was a lot of combat going on behind the scenes, they just couldnt show it in the shows.
My hope is that they add indicators to missions in the future telling you what to expect(space/ground/no combat).
Also i upgraded my starter ship to a science vessel and im having a blast. Its not just that i have a additional aft weapon, which is sweet, its also that i have a second science console which is Lt grade. So i could promote my science BO and get a new science ensign BO.
This means i went from having 1 tactical, 1 engineering and 1 science BO skill, to having 1 tac, 1 eng, and 3 science skills, with one of them Lt grade skill which is stronger.
P.S.: Your Bridge Officer have 1 upgradeable skill per rank. So a LT has 1 ensign skill and 1 Lt skill. A Lt skill can be a stronger version of a ensign skill, or a unique new skill. So getting another console(they are limited by rank, a BO at a ensign console can use his ensign skill, even if he is a Lt) with a higher rank to boot is a huge upgrade. And yes skills make a huge difference, it still boggles my mind how some people complain about them.
Level 43+ Federation players now have access to missions versus the Borg. Talk to Admiral Quinn and use the transwarp conduit in the Risa to rendezvous at the Fleet Staging area to begin. These missions include:
- 3 new Borg related episodes
- Repeatable Star Cluster mission against Borg threats
- Deep Space encounters with Patrolling Borg fleets
- A Daily Star Cluster mission which grants Marks of Exploration for use at an exclusive store in the Staging Fleet to gear up for upcoming Raidisode content. In addition, level 43+ Klingon players now have access to repeatable Borg related Klingon Defense missions. Level 43+ players of both factions also gain access to Daily PVP missions which grant Marks of Honor which can be redeemed for exclusive top end gear at stores on K7/Ganalda respectively. This update sets the stage for additional Borg conflicts which will be released in coming weeks.
This is what i was talking about. They can and apparently do focus on content now, instead of just talking about it. It might not be much, but atleast we are seeing them doing something. Which is all i want to be honest. The worst thing is a company announcing content, but not saying when, or what, and then shutting up and not saying anything anymore for a few months only to then finally announce a halloween special or some crap.
Also there is non combat content, not enough to apease the hardcore fans, but enough to annoy me already. Yes i get it this is Star Trek, yes i know the actual fighting didnt get alot of screentime in the shows. But one has to be aware that that was due to budget limits more than because they didnt want to show combat. It was always implied that there was a lot of combat going on behind the scenes, they just couldnt show it in the shows.
My hope is that they add indicators to missions in the future telling you what to expect(space/ground/no combat).
Also i upgraded my starter ship to a science vessel and im having a blast. Its not just that i have a additional aft weapon, which is sweet, its also that i have a second science console which is Lt grade. So i could promote my science BO and get a new science ensign BO.
This means i went from having 1 tactical, 1 engineering and 1 science BO skill, to having 1 tac, 1 eng, and 3 science skills, with one of them Lt grade skill which is stronger.
P.S.: Your Bridge Officer have 1 upgradeable skill per rank. So a LT has 1 ensign skill and 1 Lt skill. A Lt skill can be a stronger version of a ensign skill, or a unique new skill. So getting another console(they are limited by rank, a BO at a ensign console can use his ensign skill, even if he is a Lt) with a higher rank to boot is a huge upgrade. And yes skills make a huge difference, it still boggles my mind how some people complain about them.
Those updates do look very sweet. I'm only at LT tier 9 and I still haven't run out of content or things to do. I look forward to getting my first Science ship in a few days.
I have been playing MMo's since their inception and been gaming for over 35 years when gaming started. I was a beta tester for STO for a short period and played open beta and head start. I was probably one of the hardest critics of the game and I bitched extensively on the boards. I finally decided one day that I have been gaming for so damn long that I have become this cynical, jaded gamer.
Therefore I gave myself an attitude adjustment, lowered my expectations,and started playing the game for what it was. When I was a kid growing up and gaming was barely alive, it was fun. We played games and I grew up playing games and becoming a gamer because I had fun. Somewhere along the way I lost the fun. So, with the new attitude adjustment and the third try at STO, I must say I am now having a blast. The space combat has grown on me immensely, I am running windows 7 X64 with a GTX 275 maxed settings and the worlds are simply beautiful.
Its not perfect but then what game is? We can all piss and moan about every single game. I decided that when the time comes and I no longer decide STO is it for me, I will simply uninstall and move on. I don't need to come to the forum and trash the hell out of it or any other game. Just because a game doesn't work for me doesn't mean it holds the same for everyone else. Individuality is great isn't it? it's hard to get past the SHEEPIL mob I know but this game is far from fail material.
head start almost made me quit for the third time. Since release day I have played several hours a day with zero issues. All these issues people keep complaining about well I am not seeing them. I got to believe that a lot of issues are hardware and software related on the other end (and may times between the monitor and the chair). The game has a lot of potential and there are many things I dislike about it. However, I can get past the stuff I don't like because every time I log in I am actually having FUN. I have not been able to say this about a game especially a MMO in a long, long time.
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
Well I think that people have the right to their own opinion. I don't think that STO is a bad game. I feel it is a young game made in two years. To me it is no big deal because I don't put my life stock into "games". I prefer more natural times. Don't get me wrong because I love MMORPG's. I just don't need to inhale it to enjoy it.
To me games should be for fun. I am not flaming anyone. I just think that everyone should of known from beta what to expect. Get over it and move on. The same people will complain about The Old Republic when it comes out and every other MMO to be released until the end of the world. The dust will clear in 90 days and most will go back to WoW, Eve, LOTRO, SWG, AION, Guild Wars, or what ever. While some will play STO. No big deal. Free trade. Free market. Freedom of choice is want you got.
I agree. First few levels is fun but it got boring so fast. I liked a couple of ground quests for a change, the space combat got so repetitive. Played for 3 days casually. I had the most fun customizing my alien. After that the game became a train wreck.
I think many people still confuse the "fun now" factor from the long term fun.
I believe people who say this game is fun.................but also Dragon Age is fun, yet I won't play it again after 1 month
Same applies to STO.
When the so called "haters" complin about this game is not because is utterly crap but because they can see beyonfd the couple of weeks fun how the game will lose its appeal.
Lack of longevity is a big deal for MMORPG players, that's why most people complain about STO, because even if it is fun now, it is too shallow to last for long.
I think many people still confuse the "fun now" factor from the long term fun.
I believe people who say this game is fun.................but also Dragon Age is fun, yet I won't play it again after 1 month
Same applies to STO.
When the so called "haters" complin about this game is not because is utterly crap but because they can see beyonfd the couple of weeks fun how the game will lose its appeal.
Lack of longevity is a big deal for MMORPG players, that's why most people complain about STO, because even if it is fun now, it is too shallow to last for long.
I agree. I also don't see the replayability on STO either. Every career path seems the same. At this point I dont see the reason to pay a monthly sub. This game feels like a single player with co-op features.
As someone thats played MMO's for over 12 years, I dont choose to play MMO's for 2 weeks worth of fun which is what STO only offers. I play MMO's with the intention that I will be playing it for a long period. If I wanted a game that will entertain me for 2 weeks Ill go buy an Xbox or PS3.
It is fun to be the captain, to train up your bridge crew and outfit your ships and then get new ships and outfit those... It is fun to go on missions. The game is not hard to play. I have one character at RA5 and another at Commander. I have a Klingon that I stopped at about lvl 13 because, well, even I cannot do that much raw pvp without a story. All this without putting in near the amount of time you would in WOW, WAR , DDO , etc.
Here are the main issues I have with the game that should have been fixed pre-launch:
1) Server stability - it isn't bad but then again they are only putting about 30-50 people into each instanced area. This is also the least of the games issues.
2) Login ques - not having enough servers set up, even if you just rent them for the first few months with an option to extend your lease is utter madness. Any IT director worth his salt would read a few blogs from the other developers out there and see that utilizing a good short term lease for a batch of servers would offset your risk to cost ratio while giving you that extra server space you need during an MMO launch to not only tackle the high levels of logins but also have a separate mirror server to jump onto check bugs and squash them.
3) Bugs, bugs and more bugs. - This game did not get enough beta. I would say minimum 2 more months. It is unconscionable that they did not take more time. Since day one there have been major issues. Entire quests that do not work, other quest lines that let you get to the end but do not complete. NPC's ghosting, rubberbanding, lag, lag and more lag, and tons of issues that could have been worked out in a wider beta. Instead we have been paying money to file bug reports on missions and game issues. Kind of sucks the fun out of it when you are paying for the pleasure. And the obviously still do not have the people they need to work these issues as missions I have played before are now broken from them trying to fix something else.
4) Lack of the social - I am all for fast paced action. But there is really no reason for me to interact with anyone in this game in more than a PUG way. The ideas of fleets and the like are great and very well could be needed for some of the new end game content. However, right now I can tell you that if you just follow the storyline quests and do a few of the repeatable explore missions (I did them the first character 2 times each explore then story missions) you will end up maxed in level with the option of maxing out your BA without a whole lotta effort. That is without a death penalty however I did this solo and without a lot of deaths. In fact the quests actually got harder when I grouped because, for example, if it was space kills I had to deal with people not fighting but their presence bringing more ships in for me to kill. Kind of the opposite of encouraging grouping. LOL.
5) Nothing groundbreaking or even scuffing of the dirt. This is my biggest complaint with the game. The missions end up being kill, collect or walk/fly over there. Rinse, repeat. I had thought we would have more episodic interaction. I realize that we do not have real random generated content but it would be nice for diplomacy to be more than listen to NPC 1 talk, listen to NPC 2 talk, then answer questions or go buy 10 of this and deliver it to the planet. There are so many Star Trek stories out there that could be turned into away missions, the best ones were situations where the captains had to figure something out, not just blow something up.
The entire game is a reflection of what the development cycle was. Rushed and sloppy. You can argue until you are blue about that with me however all I have to do to prove this point is to have you play the game for 10 minutes. It has been getting better in short steps since the launch however it never should have been released in this state. The fact that people are defending it for being only crap light instead of utter crap shows how willing we have become to take anything new in whatever condition it comes down the development pipe.
Yes the game is fun. It is Star Trek. We have played board games with this genre and had fun.
Could this have been much better? Yes.
Could it have even been much better in its current incarnation? Undoubtedly so, had they taken the necessary time to polish it up before putting it out the door.
In the end a lot of us will play it but I doubt for as long as either we or they would have liked it.
I do agree with you about the game engine basis being solid, however there are quite a few nagging factors that, in the end, really drove me nuts.
The constant window popups (even during active combat) are propbably the most unnerving of them all. I never saw Uhura jump in front of Kirk to tell him that the enemy ship was hailing them. My theory(hope) is that they intended to have voice over comments in place of those but that perticular aspect of the game engine was borked due to ridiculous deadlines set by Atari. Perhaps in a year or two they will have fixed it.
The genesis engine is great, for location design but really sucks Targ poop when it comes to plots. You know I remember Cryptic going on and on about how rich with content and storytelling potential this IP was. Aside from the handful of missions that essentially re-explore stories that were already told, I don't see anything very compelling. Maybe they should simply copy and paste some of the better novel plots into the Genesis engine and see what happens, certainly couldn't hurt.
The ships are very well designed but they are essentially just place holders. There is no customization to them, beyond aesthetics and a few sockets. I think that the thing that made guys like Scotty and Geordie so legendary was the fact that they were constantly tweaking the ship to squeeze all the performance they could out of it.
Instead people are running around with very similar "loadouts" which limits not only strategy but also the players ability to become unique in his or her own way.
One thing I remember vividly Cryptic saying early on was that players would have the opportunity to think their way out of a situation as opposed to just blast everything out of sight. I know this game has been released way to early but I have seen no opportunity to "think" my way out of any situation. Whenever I have tried , it essentially took me out of the heavily scripted mission scenario usually rendering it impossible to finish.
The only aspect I was able to remotely influence in a direct fashion with a non aggressive attitude was the scanning missions:
Space: Approach item to be scanned, disrupt opponent npc's ability to target me, scan item, all power to engines, rinse & repeat.
Ground: Approach item to be scanned, distract opponent npc(s) with my officers, crate or find cover, scan item, run like the wind, rinse & repeat.
At first I kind of felt proud of myself about figuring that out, the feeling faded away rather fast after about 35 missions of doing exactly the same thing, and no end to it in sight
This game does have very fun elements but I think they spent their energies in all the wrong places, if this had been sold as a normal rpg game I think that people would have loved it to bits, but trying to create a community based game out of a system that is essentially designed to keep people apart was a mistake. There is nothing that this game offers that a normal RPG (ie: Mass Effect or Diablo 2 or Titan Quest) formula would not. So it is extremely difficult to justify 15$ a month for a really snazzy looking chat system.
I think many people still confuse the "fun now" factor from the long term fun.
I believe people who say this game is fun.................but also Dragon Age is fun, yet I won't play it again after 1 month
Same applies to STO.
When the so called "haters" complin about this game is not because is utterly crap but because they can see beyonfd the couple of weeks fun how the game will lose its appeal.
Lack of longevity is a big deal for MMORPG players, that's why most people complain about STO, because even if it is fun now, it is too shallow to last for long.
Obviously, this is all a matter of personal taste. As a new MMO, it really doesn't have any more or less "long-term appeal" than just about any other MMO out there. It just depends on how you look at it.
Example: I've seen some people say that ship combat gets repetitive. How is it any different than melee combat in WoW, LOTRO, or any other fantasy MMO, though, where you fight the same way with the same character over and over?
Do they have room to add things, and improve the game. Certainly. That's also not different from any other MMO.
It's all in how STO appeals to each individual. Personally, I see a ton of flexibility in character development in STO, with character classes, skill choices for mains and BOs, ship choices, and gear choices for mains, ships, and BOs. If they keep adding more to the good base they have, the game will keep getting better.
Speaking for myself, I'm having more fun in STO than I've had in an MMO for a long time. Like the OP said, it does have a very different feel from the standard themepark MMO, which is a very good thing, in my opinion.
I think many people still confuse the "fun now" factor from the long term fun.
I believe people who say this game is fun.................but also Dragon Age is fun, yet I won't play it again after 1 month
Same applies to STO.
When the so called "haters" complin about this game is not because is utterly crap but because they can see beyonfd the couple of weeks fun how the game will lose its appeal.
Lack of longevity is a big deal for MMORPG players, that's why most people complain about STO, because even if it is fun now, it is too shallow to last for long.
Example: I've seen some people say that ship combat gets repetitive. How is it any different than melee combat in WoW, LOTRO, or any other fantasy MMO, though, where you fight the same way with the same character over and over?
You're comparing one aspect of MMO's...You can say as much for any MMO out there for the most part...In that sense sure the Games are similar...in a way at least...Maybe it's the aspect of Space looking basically the same in most Sectors that add to the boredom...I don't know...But for some reason for Me it does seem to be MUCH more boring...
I can't speak for WOW cause I never played it...But LOTRO is SO superior to STO in so many ways it's actually unfair to compare the two Games...STO is not even in LOTRO's league as an MMO...It's not even close...So sure they may have one or two things in common...But depth, quality, stability, exploration, content, and a host of other more important things are not among the similarities...
I'll concede it might be good. But it ain't MMO good. In other words it may provide a level of entertainment commensurate with standard video game fare, but when you put it in the MMO category, the expectations are a lot higher. Is this a game I'll be playing for many months? Years? No, I was bored in less than 10 days.
Got to keep that in mind: good game != good mmo.
Of course if they hadn't tried to convince everyone the game is an mmo and just released it a a standalone with multiplayer, none of us would be discussing it.
I'll concede it might be good. But it ain't MMO good. In other words it may provide a level of entertainment commensurate with standard video game fare, but when you put it in the MMO category, the expectations are a lot higher. Is this a game I'll be playing for many months? Years? No, I was bored in less than 10 days. Got to keep that in mind: good game != good mmo. Of course if they hadn't tried to convince everyone the game is an mmo and just released it a a standalone with multiplayer, none of us would be discussing it.
I agree, an mmo it is not. Pretty much all content can be solo'd.
The only thing so far i've seen is the CE that requires about 20 players...
I'll concede it might be good. But it ain't MMO good. In other words it may provide a level of entertainment commensurate with standard video game fare, but when you put it in the MMO category, the expectations are a lot higher. Is this a game I'll be playing for many months? Years? No, I was bored in less than 10 days. Got to keep that in mind: good game != good mmo. Of course if they hadn't tried to convince everyone the game is an mmo and just released it a a standalone with multiplayer, none of us would be discussing it.
I agree, an mmo it is not. Pretty much all content can be solo'd. The only thing so far i've seen is the CE that requires about 20 players...
Disagree. I got out of the forced grouping EQ1 sheep thing years ago and to be honest I'm surprised anyone still falls for that crap. Well, there will always be those that are stuck in the past with no way to escape.
I love this game. The more I play the more depth I find in balancing ships, BO's and your skills. The space combat is great with plenty of action to keep me busy. I must not be the only one either because the damn game is crowed as hell. Tons of people playing away. Unless you change it, most missions put you on teams with others. This can be both a good and bad thing.
Sorry but your limited definition of what an MMO is is sadly lacking, narrow-mined and a little one dimensional for me. I'll be here a while you obviously won't. Have fun finding a a great game that fits into your small little world.
I'll concede it might be good. But it ain't MMO good. In other words it may provide a level of entertainment commensurate with standard video game fare, but when you put it in the MMO category, the expectations are a lot higher. Is this a game I'll be playing for many months? Years? No, I was bored in less than 10 days. Got to keep that in mind: good game != good mmo. Of course if they hadn't tried to convince everyone the game is an mmo and just released it a a standalone with multiplayer, none of us would be discussing it.
I agree, an mmo it is not. Pretty much all content can be solo'd.
The only thing so far i've seen is the CE that requires about 20 players...
All current (Infected episode) endgame content, and all announcet future content (The cure episode etc) are definitly not soloable. The only really novel thing STO did was to not require grouping for leveling at any point, and thats a general trend with modern mmos(even if i doubt most will go so far as to totally skip it).
Personally i think there isnt enough groupcontent at all stages of the game, then again most people actually prefer to level solo with the occasional PvP action if they want to see other players. I base that observation on the difficulty i had finding groups for level/nonprogressive dungeons in many games. Problem is:
a) Better items are not a incentive, because you outlevel them fast anyway and they are not required to level.
b) Its usually not as time efficent as solo leveling. You can easily spend half your time in any group idling and waiting/searching for members.
c) Social interaction with people you dont know isnt always going to turn out enjoyable. This is true for endgame too, but at endgame the playerbase congregates, you more likely to be able to do a entire team out of friends/fleet people.
So i definitly think cryptic was right not to focus on groupcontent for leveling, and even now the endgame should obviously have priority.
There are also fleetactions while leveling that technically are groupcontent like the CE or the starbase one in sirius. I personally dont count them as such though since they dont require actual grouping but merely some cooperation from players in the same area.
As the op of this thread, maybe i should mention that i actually canceled my subscription, which kinda goes against the spirit of my op if you so will. This isnt so much because i suddenly found out i dont like the gamemechanics after all, but more due to disliking the direction cryptic took the endgame(Infected). Had they gone the direction of space heavy episodes instead of groundheavy i probably would have stayed a subscriber, now i took my leave and will probably check back in a couple months to see if there is more content to my liking.
I seriously think concentrating on groundcombat is a serious error on cryptics part, at such a early time a game should focus on its strengths, not its weaknesses(unless ofc you have enough resources to turn a weekness to a strenght ... or something). Personally while i find the groundcombat bearable alot of other games do it alot better, both in pvp and pve, while the spacecombat was unique and less in need of polish.
As the op of this thread, maybe i should mention that i actually canceled my subscription, which kinda goes against the spirit of my op if you so will. This isnt so much because i suddenly found out i dont like the gamemechanics after all, but more due to disliking the direction cryptic took the endgame(Infected). Had they gone the direction of space heavy episodes instead of groundheavy i probably would have stayed a subscriber, now i took my leave and will probably check back in a couple months to see if there is more content to my liking. I seriously think concentrating on groundcombat is a serious error on cryptics part, at such a early time a game should focus on its strengths, not its weaknesses(unless ofc you have enough resources to turn a weekness to a strenght ... or something). Personally while i find the groundcombat bearable alot of other games do it alot better, both in pvp and pve, while the spacecombat was unique and less in need of polish.
Interesting. I canceled my recurring subscription as well, but not because of that. I think the ground is something they badly need to work on as I get tired of being in space all the time.My reason is for the lack things to do besides combat. There is nothing to explore on the ground except when you have a mission there. The economy needs to be totally redone as Memory Alpha is just a big time sink. They need to provide more things to do in game besides more space combat as I would guess that to be the biggest reason people won't resub.
Comments
Have to agree, for all it's flaws and shortcoming, it excels in other area's. Can be real good fun.
Bit of a Jekyll and Hyde game though.
Loads of former EVE players coming to try it out, apparently the space combat whilst not as complex is fast and fun.
all mmos are teh same. wow quests were much the same at 20 as they were at 50 or 60. before that it was camp a spot and grind mobs for 50 hours a level.
I dont agree at all. Most MMOs I have played, and I have played many, had much more varied content, and just generally more content, than STO has. Vanguard had diplomacy missions, Eve had trading, mining etc, WoW had multiple leveling paths with classes that had a very different playstyle.
In STO everything feels pretty much the same. Science, Cruiser, Escorts are fundamentally the same. They "defeat" enemies by doing and taking damage and all weapons have the same range. Crowd control is very limited (and unneccessary), range is all the same (so no close range ships and no long range ships). All the ships can fit the same type of weapons so no ship that can fit a superpowered beam laser and no ship that can fit a super powered torpedoe launcher (all ships can).
Furthermore, STO has no real crafting. The economy is meaningless as you can get pretty much everything you need as drops or purchase it from NPCs. There is no raid content, everything can be soloed or done in automatched teams. Game is so easy so there is no need to play a particulary role, its all zerging and blasting everything in sight.
Also there is no PvP territorial control and the PvE fleet missions are basically the same: Blow X enemies up, get Y item etc, zero depth.
But yes, lack of depth is a problem in many MMOs but I think STO takes the prize. Even CO had those archenemies to give some variation but STO has nothing like that. It's all pretty much the same from grade 1-50 and zero endgame content. Not broken, or flawed endgame content, ZERO endgame content, none, nada, zilch.
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Have to agree, for all it's flaws and shortcoming, it excels in other area's. Can be real good fun.
Bit of a Jekyll and Hyde game though.
Loads of former EVE players coming to try it out, apparently the space combat whilst not as complex is fast and fun.
True, STOs space combat is 10x more fun than in Eve. But combat alone does not make an MMO. AoC comes to mind....
But atleast AoC has end-game PvP raids.
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What STO have is story, where other mmo don't. You really need to read in STO, and remember a lot of things because storylines take lots of quests, one thing might appear at lvl 5 and then reappear and surprise you at lvl 20. and ifyou watched and remember series and films, the coolness factor increases a lot.
It's more like the experience you have in single player games where the story usually is the key element of the game.
I think SWTOR will take that same approach, putting the importance in the storyline.
I'm more for the sandbox style game, where players really write the story (eve is my fav mmo), but story as a center factor in mmo is really refreshing.
Actually AoC PvP was broken on launch and massive siege PvP to bugged to make any fun. Also probably worth mentioning that WoW had server issues straight after US launch, not a whole lot of endgame content and gaps in the quest content that meant you had to grind your way up at least some of the way to 60. Yet they patch and fix the game and it becomes a hit. STO is a unique gem of an mmo. Not all may get it, but I think it will earn a loyal fan base that will make it a long-term success.
Actually AoC PvP was broken on launch and massive siege PvP to bugged to make any fun. Also probably worth mentioning that WoW had server issues straight after US launch, not a whole lot of endgame content and gaps in the quest content that meant you had to grind your way up at least some of the way to 60. Yet they patch and fix the game and it becomes a hit. STO is a unique gem of an mmo. Not all may get it, but I think it will earn a loyal fan base that will make it a long-term success.
I seriously question anyone's honesty when they say the game is nothing but combat. Either they are lying or they completely ignored the diplomatic quests that are given by Admiral Quinn,Sulu or the ones given by the alien for exploring star clusters. Last night I did 6 missions and only 2 involved direct combat. Of course the person you are quoting hasn't bothered to come back into his own "STO isn't a MMORPG" thread after having his so-called facts blown up in his face.
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This is what i was talking about. They can and apparently do focus on content now, instead of just talking about it. It might not be much, but atleast we are seeing them doing something. Which is all i want to be honest. The worst thing is a company announcing content, but not saying when, or what, and then shutting up and not saying anything anymore for a few months only to then finally announce a halloween special or some crap.
Also there is non combat content, not enough to apease the hardcore fans, but enough to annoy me already. Yes i get it this is Star Trek, yes i know the actual fighting didnt get alot of screentime in the shows. But one has to be aware that that was due to budget limits more than because they didnt want to show combat. It was always implied that there was a lot of combat going on behind the scenes, they just couldnt show it in the shows.
My hope is that they add indicators to missions in the future telling you what to expect(space/ground/no combat).
Also i upgraded my starter ship to a science vessel and im having a blast. Its not just that i have a additional aft weapon, which is sweet, its also that i have a second science console which is Lt grade. So i could promote my science BO and get a new science ensign BO.
This means i went from having 1 tactical, 1 engineering and 1 science BO skill, to having 1 tac, 1 eng, and 3 science skills, with one of them Lt grade skill which is stronger.
P.S.: Your Bridge Officer have 1 upgradeable skill per rank. So a LT has 1 ensign skill and 1 Lt skill. A Lt skill can be a stronger version of a ensign skill, or a unique new skill. So getting another console(they are limited by rank, a BO at a ensign console can use his ensign skill, even if he is a Lt) with a higher rank to boot is a huge upgrade. And yes skills make a huge difference, it still boggles my mind how some people complain about them.
This is what i was talking about. They can and apparently do focus on content now, instead of just talking about it. It might not be much, but atleast we are seeing them doing something. Which is all i want to be honest. The worst thing is a company announcing content, but not saying when, or what, and then shutting up and not saying anything anymore for a few months only to then finally announce a halloween special or some crap.
Also there is non combat content, not enough to apease the hardcore fans, but enough to annoy me already. Yes i get it this is Star Trek, yes i know the actual fighting didnt get alot of screentime in the shows. But one has to be aware that that was due to budget limits more than because they didnt want to show combat. It was always implied that there was a lot of combat going on behind the scenes, they just couldnt show it in the shows.
My hope is that they add indicators to missions in the future telling you what to expect(space/ground/no combat).
Also i upgraded my starter ship to a science vessel and im having a blast. Its not just that i have a additional aft weapon, which is sweet, its also that i have a second science console which is Lt grade. So i could promote my science BO and get a new science ensign BO.
This means i went from having 1 tactical, 1 engineering and 1 science BO skill, to having 1 tac, 1 eng, and 3 science skills, with one of them Lt grade skill which is stronger.
P.S.: Your Bridge Officer have 1 upgradeable skill per rank. So a LT has 1 ensign skill and 1 Lt skill. A Lt skill can be a stronger version of a ensign skill, or a unique new skill. So getting another console(they are limited by rank, a BO at a ensign console can use his ensign skill, even if he is a Lt) with a higher rank to boot is a huge upgrade. And yes skills make a huge difference, it still boggles my mind how some people complain about them.
Those updates do look very sweet. I'm only at LT tier 9 and I still haven't run out of content or things to do. I look forward to getting my first Science ship in a few days.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I have been playing MMo's since their inception and been gaming for over 35 years when gaming started. I was a beta tester for STO for a short period and played open beta and head start. I was probably one of the hardest critics of the game and I bitched extensively on the boards. I finally decided one day that I have been gaming for so damn long that I have become this cynical, jaded gamer.
Therefore I gave myself an attitude adjustment, lowered my expectations,and started playing the game for what it was. When I was a kid growing up and gaming was barely alive, it was fun. We played games and I grew up playing games and becoming a gamer because I had fun. Somewhere along the way I lost the fun. So, with the new attitude adjustment and the third try at STO, I must say I am now having a blast. The space combat has grown on me immensely, I am running windows 7 X64 with a GTX 275 maxed settings and the worlds are simply beautiful.
Its not perfect but then what game is? We can all piss and moan about every single game. I decided that when the time comes and I no longer decide STO is it for me, I will simply uninstall and move on. I don't need to come to the forum and trash the hell out of it or any other game. Just because a game doesn't work for me doesn't mean it holds the same for everyone else. Individuality is great isn't it? it's hard to get past the SHEEPIL mob I know but this game is far from fail material.
head start almost made me quit for the third time. Since release day I have played several hours a day with zero issues. All these issues people keep complaining about well I am not seeing them. I got to believe that a lot of issues are hardware and software related on the other end (and may times between the monitor and the chair). The game has a lot of potential and there are many things I dislike about it. However, I can get past the stuff I don't like because every time I log in I am actually having FUN. I have not been able to say this about a game especially a MMO in a long, long time.
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
Well I think that people have the right to their own opinion. I don't think that STO is a bad game. I feel it is a young game made in two years. To me it is no big deal because I don't put my life stock into "games". I prefer more natural times. Don't get me wrong because I love MMORPG's. I just don't need to inhale it to enjoy it.
To me games should be for fun. I am not flaming anyone. I just think that everyone should of known from beta what to expect. Get over it and move on. The same people will complain about The Old Republic when it comes out and every other MMO to be released until the end of the world. The dust will clear in 90 days and most will go back to WoW, Eve, LOTRO, SWG, AION, Guild Wars, or what ever. While some will play STO. No big deal. Free trade. Free market. Freedom of choice is want you got.
STO is fun to play but like all games it's not for everyone. This is my last post on this site, its gone to the 6yr trolls and the mods who allow it.
beam me outa here.
Still playing and enjoying STO. Nice to have an MMO where I can play for less than an hour and see progress.
I agree. First few levels is fun but it got boring so fast. I liked a couple of ground quests for a change, the space combat got so repetitive. Played for 3 days casually. I had the most fun customizing my alien. After that the game became a train wreck.
I think many people still confuse the "fun now" factor from the long term fun.
I believe people who say this game is fun.................but also Dragon Age is fun, yet I won't play it again after 1 month
Same applies to STO.
When the so called "haters" complin about this game is not because is utterly crap but because they can see beyonfd the couple of weeks fun how the game will lose its appeal.
Lack of longevity is a big deal for MMORPG players, that's why most people complain about STO, because even if it is fun now, it is too shallow to last for long.
I think many people still confuse the "fun now" factor from the long term fun.
I believe people who say this game is fun.................but also Dragon Age is fun, yet I won't play it again after 1 month
Same applies to STO.
When the so called "haters" complin about this game is not because is utterly crap but because they can see beyonfd the couple of weeks fun how the game will lose its appeal.
Lack of longevity is a big deal for MMORPG players, that's why most people complain about STO, because even if it is fun now, it is too shallow to last for long.
I agree. I also don't see the replayability on STO either. Every career path seems the same. At this point I dont see the reason to pay a monthly sub. This game feels like a single player with co-op features.
As someone thats played MMO's for over 12 years, I dont choose to play MMO's for 2 weeks worth of fun which is what STO only offers. I play MMO's with the intention that I will be playing it for a long period. If I wanted a game that will entertain me for 2 weeks Ill go buy an Xbox or PS3.
I like the game.
I do not love the game.
It is fun to be the captain, to train up your bridge crew and outfit your ships and then get new ships and outfit those... It is fun to go on missions. The game is not hard to play. I have one character at RA5 and another at Commander. I have a Klingon that I stopped at about lvl 13 because, well, even I cannot do that much raw pvp without a story. All this without putting in near the amount of time you would in WOW, WAR , DDO , etc.
Here are the main issues I have with the game that should have been fixed pre-launch:
1) Server stability - it isn't bad but then again they are only putting about 30-50 people into each instanced area. This is also the least of the games issues.
2) Login ques - not having enough servers set up, even if you just rent them for the first few months with an option to extend your lease is utter madness. Any IT director worth his salt would read a few blogs from the other developers out there and see that utilizing a good short term lease for a batch of servers would offset your risk to cost ratio while giving you that extra server space you need during an MMO launch to not only tackle the high levels of logins but also have a separate mirror server to jump onto check bugs and squash them.
3) Bugs, bugs and more bugs. - This game did not get enough beta. I would say minimum 2 more months. It is unconscionable that they did not take more time. Since day one there have been major issues. Entire quests that do not work, other quest lines that let you get to the end but do not complete. NPC's ghosting, rubberbanding, lag, lag and more lag, and tons of issues that could have been worked out in a wider beta. Instead we have been paying money to file bug reports on missions and game issues. Kind of sucks the fun out of it when you are paying for the pleasure. And the obviously still do not have the people they need to work these issues as missions I have played before are now broken from them trying to fix something else.
4) Lack of the social - I am all for fast paced action. But there is really no reason for me to interact with anyone in this game in more than a PUG way. The ideas of fleets and the like are great and very well could be needed for some of the new end game content. However, right now I can tell you that if you just follow the storyline quests and do a few of the repeatable explore missions (I did them the first character 2 times each explore then story missions) you will end up maxed in level with the option of maxing out your BA without a whole lotta effort. That is without a death penalty however I did this solo and without a lot of deaths. In fact the quests actually got harder when I grouped because, for example, if it was space kills I had to deal with people not fighting but their presence bringing more ships in for me to kill. Kind of the opposite of encouraging grouping. LOL.
5) Nothing groundbreaking or even scuffing of the dirt. This is my biggest complaint with the game. The missions end up being kill, collect or walk/fly over there. Rinse, repeat. I had thought we would have more episodic interaction. I realize that we do not have real random generated content but it would be nice for diplomacy to be more than listen to NPC 1 talk, listen to NPC 2 talk, then answer questions or go buy 10 of this and deliver it to the planet. There are so many Star Trek stories out there that could be turned into away missions, the best ones were situations where the captains had to figure something out, not just blow something up.
The entire game is a reflection of what the development cycle was. Rushed and sloppy. You can argue until you are blue about that with me however all I have to do to prove this point is to have you play the game for 10 minutes. It has been getting better in short steps since the launch however it never should have been released in this state. The fact that people are defending it for being only crap light instead of utter crap shows how willing we have become to take anything new in whatever condition it comes down the development pipe.
Yes the game is fun. It is Star Trek. We have played board games with this genre and had fun.
Could this have been much better? Yes.
Could it have even been much better in its current incarnation? Undoubtedly so, had they taken the necessary time to polish it up before putting it out the door.
In the end a lot of us will play it but I doubt for as long as either we or they would have liked it.
I do agree with you about the game engine basis being solid, however there are quite a few nagging factors that, in the end, really drove me nuts.
The constant window popups (even during active combat) are propbably the most unnerving of them all. I never saw Uhura jump in front of Kirk to tell him that the enemy ship was hailing them. My theory(hope) is that they intended to have voice over comments in place of those but that perticular aspect of the game engine was borked due to ridiculous deadlines set by Atari. Perhaps in a year or two they will have fixed it.
The genesis engine is great, for location design but really sucks Targ poop when it comes to plots. You know I remember Cryptic going on and on about how rich with content and storytelling potential this IP was. Aside from the handful of missions that essentially re-explore stories that were already told, I don't see anything very compelling. Maybe they should simply copy and paste some of the better novel plots into the Genesis engine and see what happens, certainly couldn't hurt.
The ships are very well designed but they are essentially just place holders. There is no customization to them, beyond aesthetics and a few sockets. I think that the thing that made guys like Scotty and Geordie so legendary was the fact that they were constantly tweaking the ship to squeeze all the performance they could out of it.
Instead people are running around with very similar "loadouts" which limits not only strategy but also the players ability to become unique in his or her own way.
One thing I remember vividly Cryptic saying early on was that players would have the opportunity to think their way out of a situation as opposed to just blast everything out of sight. I know this game has been released way to early but I have seen no opportunity to "think" my way out of any situation. Whenever I have tried , it essentially took me out of the heavily scripted mission scenario usually rendering it impossible to finish.
The only aspect I was able to remotely influence in a direct fashion with a non aggressive attitude was the scanning missions:
Space: Approach item to be scanned, disrupt opponent npc's ability to target me, scan item, all power to engines, rinse & repeat.
Ground: Approach item to be scanned, distract opponent npc(s) with my officers, crate or find cover, scan item, run like the wind, rinse & repeat.
At first I kind of felt proud of myself about figuring that out, the feeling faded away rather fast after about 35 missions of doing exactly the same thing, and no end to it in sight
This game does have very fun elements but I think they spent their energies in all the wrong places, if this had been sold as a normal rpg game I think that people would have loved it to bits, but trying to create a community based game out of a system that is essentially designed to keep people apart was a mistake. There is nothing that this game offers that a normal RPG (ie: Mass Effect or Diablo 2 or Titan Quest) formula would not. So it is extremely difficult to justify 15$ a month for a really snazzy looking chat system.
I think many people still confuse the "fun now" factor from the long term fun.
I believe people who say this game is fun.................but also Dragon Age is fun, yet I won't play it again after 1 month
Same applies to STO.
When the so called "haters" complin about this game is not because is utterly crap but because they can see beyonfd the couple of weeks fun how the game will lose its appeal.
Lack of longevity is a big deal for MMORPG players, that's why most people complain about STO, because even if it is fun now, it is too shallow to last for long.
Obviously, this is all a matter of personal taste. As a new MMO, it really doesn't have any more or less "long-term appeal" than just about any other MMO out there. It just depends on how you look at it.
Example: I've seen some people say that ship combat gets repetitive. How is it any different than melee combat in WoW, LOTRO, or any other fantasy MMO, though, where you fight the same way with the same character over and over?
Do they have room to add things, and improve the game. Certainly. That's also not different from any other MMO.
It's all in how STO appeals to each individual. Personally, I see a ton of flexibility in character development in STO, with character classes, skill choices for mains and BOs, ship choices, and gear choices for mains, ships, and BOs. If they keep adding more to the good base they have, the game will keep getting better.
Speaking for myself, I'm having more fun in STO than I've had in an MMO for a long time. Like the OP said, it does have a very different feel from the standard themepark MMO, which is a very good thing, in my opinion.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
I think many people still confuse the "fun now" factor from the long term fun.
I believe people who say this game is fun.................but also Dragon Age is fun, yet I won't play it again after 1 month
Same applies to STO.
When the so called "haters" complin about this game is not because is utterly crap but because they can see beyonfd the couple of weeks fun how the game will lose its appeal.
Lack of longevity is a big deal for MMORPG players, that's why most people complain about STO, because even if it is fun now, it is too shallow to last for long.
Example: I've seen some people say that ship combat gets repetitive. How is it any different than melee combat in WoW, LOTRO, or any other fantasy MMO, though, where you fight the same way with the same character over and over?
You're comparing one aspect of MMO's...You can say as much for any MMO out there for the most part...In that sense sure the Games are similar...in a way at least...Maybe it's the aspect of Space looking basically the same in most Sectors that add to the boredom...I don't know...But for some reason for Me it does seem to be MUCH more boring...
I can't speak for WOW cause I never played it...But LOTRO is SO superior to STO in so many ways it's actually unfair to compare the two Games...STO is not even in LOTRO's league as an MMO...It's not even close...So sure they may have one or two things in common...But depth, quality, stability, exploration, content, and a host of other more important things are not among the similarities...
I'll concede it might be good. But it ain't MMO good. In other words it may provide a level of entertainment commensurate with standard video game fare, but when you put it in the MMO category, the expectations are a lot higher. Is this a game I'll be playing for many months? Years? No, I was bored in less than 10 days.
Got to keep that in mind: good game != good mmo.
Of course if they hadn't tried to convince everyone the game is an mmo and just released it a a standalone with multiplayer, none of us would be discussing it.
I agree, an mmo it is not. Pretty much all content can be solo'd.
The only thing so far i've seen is the CE that requires about 20 players...
Disagree. I got out of the forced grouping EQ1 sheep thing years ago and to be honest I'm surprised anyone still falls for that crap. Well, there will always be those that are stuck in the past with no way to escape.
I love this game. The more I play the more depth I find in balancing ships, BO's and your skills. The space combat is great with plenty of action to keep me busy. I must not be the only one either because the damn game is crowed as hell. Tons of people playing away. Unless you change it, most missions put you on teams with others. This can be both a good and bad thing.
Sorry but your limited definition of what an MMO is is sadly lacking, narrow-mined and a little one dimensional for me. I'll be here a while you obviously won't. Have fun finding a a great game that fits into your small little world.
Luck on your next game!
I agree, an mmo it is not. Pretty much all content can be solo'd.
The only thing so far i've seen is the CE that requires about 20 players...
All current (Infected episode) endgame content, and all announcet future content (The cure episode etc) are definitly not soloable. The only really novel thing STO did was to not require grouping for leveling at any point, and thats a general trend with modern mmos(even if i doubt most will go so far as to totally skip it).
Personally i think there isnt enough groupcontent at all stages of the game, then again most people actually prefer to level solo with the occasional PvP action if they want to see other players. I base that observation on the difficulty i had finding groups for level/nonprogressive dungeons in many games. Problem is:
a) Better items are not a incentive, because you outlevel them fast anyway and they are not required to level.
b) Its usually not as time efficent as solo leveling. You can easily spend half your time in any group idling and waiting/searching for members.
c) Social interaction with people you dont know isnt always going to turn out enjoyable. This is true for endgame too, but at endgame the playerbase congregates, you more likely to be able to do a entire team out of friends/fleet people.
So i definitly think cryptic was right not to focus on groupcontent for leveling, and even now the endgame should obviously have priority.
There are also fleetactions while leveling that technically are groupcontent like the CE or the starbase one in sirius. I personally dont count them as such though since they dont require actual grouping but merely some cooperation from players in the same area.
As the op of this thread, maybe i should mention that i actually canceled my subscription, which kinda goes against the spirit of my op if you so will. This isnt so much because i suddenly found out i dont like the gamemechanics after all, but more due to disliking the direction cryptic took the endgame(Infected). Had they gone the direction of space heavy episodes instead of groundheavy i probably would have stayed a subscriber, now i took my leave and will probably check back in a couple months to see if there is more content to my liking.
I seriously think concentrating on groundcombat is a serious error on cryptics part, at such a early time a game should focus on its strengths, not its weaknesses(unless ofc you have enough resources to turn a weekness to a strenght ... or something). Personally while i find the groundcombat bearable alot of other games do it alot better, both in pvp and pve, while the spacecombat was unique and less in need of polish.
Interesting. I canceled my recurring subscription as well, but not because of that. I think the ground is something they badly need to work on as I get tired of being in space all the time.My reason is for the lack things to do besides combat. There is nothing to explore on the ground except when you have a mission there. The economy needs to be totally redone as Memory Alpha is just a big time sink. They need to provide more things to do in game besides more space combat as I would guess that to be the biggest reason people won't resub.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft