If what you said doesn't make any sense to you, then I'm not gonna bother convincing ya. It's quite evident that nostalgia keeps people from enjoying newer games, and WoW players that haven't tried anything else yet simply don't know any better.
It's obvious, at least to the vast majority that have been stating this fact for the better part of a few years now.
Is there not a hoard of people looking for a replacement for UO/EQ?
Is there not a hoard of people that keep going back to WoW since it was the first, and best one they *have* tried?
Both points reflect perception altering amounts of nostalgic idiocy.
Okay, lets for now say it is true that people stay in MMO's for pure nostalgica. Tell me then, what is this "cap" at; how many games can you put into this "nostalgica" box; can it hold more than 1, or is it room for only 1 single MMO?
The "cap" is based on time spent. A good year+ is all it takes for me to completely tire of something, for others it could be 3-4+. I have a soft spot for UO and SWG, but I'm never going to probably play them again. The time to move on was long ago.
You also see this aspect in the flurry of posts saying "I played WoW for years, tried to resub, and I just don't have it in me to play anymore". We all see that often enough, and it's the same boat I was in years ago over my first loves.
I do think it's reserved for one game at a time too, yes. You are very likely to play two MMOs, but spend more time in one until you tire of it, then treat the other like the main. At some point you'll be over them both though.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Well, theres one major change within me; I have stopped buying every new MMO release, as I did in the early 2000'.
Now I wait, then try find reviews, videos etc etc, and last and most importantly; visit MMORPG.
I have soft spots for 4 games myself; Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft & Lord of the Rings Online. Only talking MMO's here; there are other games that also lies very strong to my heart...
WoW doesn't do anything special, it just conjures the same fuzzy feeling that EQ and UO gave to people when it was their first game too.
Let's take this as an example.
If WOW doesn't do anything special, why is it the only game with mutli million western subscribers around? So actually, there must be something "special" to assure it has 20x, 30x or even more income.
The OP gave his opinion why. You can only come up with games which actually proved there is a difference.
That difference being "just more players pay for it on a monthly basis" is only the result. Not the reason.The question was why. Marketing - as someone said - doesn't explain it (see AOC, WAR, LOTRO, ...).
It's not because you don't see "it", that "it" isn't there... because the result is there.
Keep it simple.
It is better for the majority of people that want to play subscription based games.
People have a right to pay for what they like.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Originally posted by camp11111 That difference being "just more players pay for it on a monthly basis" is only the result. Not the reason.The question was why. Marketing - as someone said - doesn't explain it (see AOC, WAR, LOTRO, ...).
Actually it is a reason, and an important one as well - people who play attract some of their RL friends (if they still have them, of course) to that game. Of course they wouldn't do that to a very bad game, but I've seen it happen a lot in WOW, EVE and LOTRO.
Marketing probably explains a part as well - I started with WOW to see what the hype was all about, I knew I like MUDs and because there was a stack of cheap boxes on the counter of a toy store I visited.
It's hard to compare marketing effort between games, though. All marketing efforts of AOC, WAR and LOTRO added together that reached are only a tiny fraction of WOW's marketing I have undergone... but that might be Europe?
In response to the OP and his opinions,i will explain of course,the ideas are not good for the community,just self minded reasons.
tight to play?this one loses me,you talk about control of your avatar,and compare it to AO and FE?lol those are not good games to compare it to,and LOTR i have not played so i cannot comment.IMO your meaning of tight sounds too much geared towards your next statements ,witch talk about solo play.Your player SHOULD feel smooth to operate within a group,something i actually did not like in EQ or WOW,battles are more or less a mess,geared towards more to solo play than grouping.When i was locked into auto combat in FFXI,i felt like my player was always at a natural distance,never crowded or standing on top of other players.when it came to performing Rankai.i felt the transition from my group mates to performing my weapon skill very smooth considering i was at 600 ping a lot of the times.In wow and EQ2 nobody really cares who or when people perform weapon skill combos,they all just button mash.
Top solo content?is this suppose to be a good thing?we are playing a MMO here not a single player game.There is a VERY good reason Blizzard has so much solo content,it is because they do not know how to create a good grouped environment,they copied all their game play from Eq.WOW is just like EQ,even in a group you are still pretty much a solo player.
Flying mounts cool?I am not surprised here at all,i said that was Aion's gimmick to make sales,and most tried to dispute it,but this proves that people really do get reeled in by cheap gimmicks.To answer your query,no i do not think it is cool,it is nothing more than a cheap gimmick,weather a game has it or not,it will never determine weather i play a game or not.
3 different ways to develop your toon.....FFXI has WOW beat right out of the gate,well at level 18 anyhow,you get to have a sub job,this gives you MANY different ways to customize your player.Also Blizzard just copied SOE's player design,where as in FFXI you get to have EVERY class on ONE player,you do not need to reroll or create alts to play another class.So Blizzard's design is nothing to brag about,they fail when compared to FFXI's player customization.I also failed to mention that choosing your race also has a HUGE difference in class design,the differences are noticeable throughout ALL levels of the game,VERY noticeable.
Once again the ability to vanish in mid fight is done cheaply in WOW and they didn't even implement properly when they released the ability ,it was a fail for quite some time,until they fixed it.In FFXI the Thief has the ability to perform a HIDE,this means for a couple seconds you hide from the mob allowing you to either escape or move behind the mob.This is actually a more skillful approach to the ability of vanishing,because it is only a short time and makes you think quickly about your next decision.Yo ucan either attempt to run or utilize a special hi damage Thief ability known as Sneak Attack.There is another factor of course witch makes it more realistic,not every mob can be fooled by your hide ability on sight oriented mobs,as some mobs have sound abilities to track playerssome even have the ability to track badly injured players[low hp],going invisible will not matter.WOW fails big time because it does not take this kind of mob/player ability,it does not have the same DEPTH of game play as FFXI does.
This is the big problem with so many WOW players,they think WOW is the ONLY game that does or has it's abilities,WOW for the most part is just a 99% copy of EQ already seen that done that,and most of it's game design is done cheap mode not allowing players to think,just hit hotbar macros and everything becomes easy mode.Add in heal pots and auto play ADD-ONS and WOW becomes even more easy mode,this IS the true reason why players like WOW,it caters to less thinking and easy mode game play.This is also proven by the fact that so many think instances are the cool,because normal game play is so poor,it makes their instances look much more intriguing than they really are.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
So anyone with prior mmo experience to wow is just living off nostalgia. Anyone without prior mmo experience doesn't know any better.
That is certainly one way to tailor support for your opinions I guess.
If what you said doesn't make any sense to you, then I'm not gonna bother convincing ya. It's quite evident that nostalgia keeps people from enjoying newer games, and WoW players that haven't tried anything else yet simply don't know any better.
It's obvious, at least to the vast majority that have been stating this fact for the better part of a few years now.
Is there not a hoard of people looking for a replacement for UO/EQ?
Is there not a hoard of people that keep going back to WoW since it was the first, and best one they *have* tried?
Both points reflect perception altering amounts of nostalgic idiocy.
Were there hordes of people that had no problem leaving the nostalgia/first love of UO? Yes, why was that? EQ.
Were there hordes of people that had no problem leaving the nostalgia/first love of EQ? Yes, why was that? WoW
Were there hordes of people that had no problem leaving the nostalgia/first love of WoW? Yes. What is that new game?
Age of conan? Warhammer online? Vanguard? Tabula Rasa? EQ2? DDO? CO? STO?
Oh look, I think we have found an answer why wow has such an easy time retaining players and people are not gleefully running to a new game. Just look at the crap the market has offered the last 5 years and you want to blame players for not switching games? That is seriously your best answer?
I was fully aware of what you said and I was just pointing out the absurdity of your claims. New mmos are selling over 1 million copies of games or hundreds of thousands and you want to pretend none of those are wow players? Every new game is filled with people bitching about "the wow community" ruining new releases, but of course there are no wow players trying new games?
Do not assume that the lack of growth of other mmos is a result of people not trying them. We have witnessed mmo growth records get broken twice last year and shortly followed by the most rapid declines in mmo history. It is very clear that people are trying new games, but those games are not delivering a compelling reason for gamers to switch.
Blaming nostalgia is just not being realistic about the situation.
In response to the OP and his opinions,i will explain of course,the ideas are not good for the community,just self minded reasons.
Really? Well, I can reveal now, you made me smiiiile.
tight to play?this one loses me,you talk about control of your avatar,and compare it to AO and FE?lol those are not good games to compare it to,and LOTR i have not played so i cannot comment.IMO your meaning of tight sounds too much geared towards your next statements ,witch talk about solo play.
Those were just 3 out of all those dozens of MMO's I have played. You did not read that? Or do you read and pick out what you feel is appropriate for your bashing? You really think I would bother posting all the MMO's I have played? Well, think again; I will not.
Your player SHOULD feel smooth to operate within a group,something i actually did not like in EQ or WOW,battles are more or less a mess,geared towards more to solo play than grouping.
No. You mix it up here. "Tight" is the opposite of "loose"; Compare WoW to driving a sportscar, while the worst games are like driving/sailing boat, where f.ex the 'point & click' games fall under. That is the feeling I talk about. You just didn't get it, did you?
When i was locked into auto combat in FFXI,i felt like my player was always at a natural distance,never crowded or standing on top of other players.when it came to performing Rankai.i felt the transition from my group mates to performing my weapon skill very smooth considering i was at 600 ping a lot of the times.
Unfortunately, 600 ping would be too high for all the good modern MMO's I have played. Especially when it comes to pvp. If you add pvp, it will and should be unplayable, whatsoever MMO or FPS. Top heavy PvP'ers I know of, would not even start to fight with ping over 120ms.
In wow and EQ2 nobody really cares who or when people perform weapon skill combos,they all just button mash.
Here you crossed a line. This statement of yours is so patronizing, shallow and lame, that I am struggling to agree with myself whether to post a decent answer to this or not. What is sure though, is that you have NO clue about any other MMO than your 'point and click FF game'. Come back when you have played anything else.
Well, I will give you some "info" here, as your knowledge on this field is non-existant:
All other games I have played, almost everyone I met & played with, have "cared" about my skills. Most other MMO's are made in a such way that every class is 'needed' for some of their special skills/toolset. Either for tank, heal, root, snare, DPS and so on. Still following? The list of skills & tools is god-knows how long; every game has a different approach how all this is handled. I am at this point seriously wondering about your age and if you have ever played anything but a trial of other MMO's other than your obsolote 'point & click' Final Fantasy.
Top solo content?is this suppose to be a good thing?
Yes it is. One of the major reasons why WoW became so tremendously popular. If you fail to understand this, I am not willing to explain this any further, just giving you a tip; google.
we are playing a MMO here not a single player game.
I have no idea what you are playing though, and I honestly do not care.
I am playing MMO's that cater my playstyle. I prefer to be self sufficient in my MMO's. YOU play Final Fantasy cause you prefer that, obviously because you are more into S&M department where you like things to be a torment. People are playing games for their own fun, not yours. Stop being selfish & arrogant. Please.
There is a VERY good reason Blizzard has so much solo content,it is because they do not know how to create a good grouped environment,they copied all their game play from Eq.WOW is just like EQ,even in a group you are still pretty much a solo player.
Laughable comments... To test your incredible sense of humor (I have to take this insanity I am reading as if you are trying to be funny), I will ask you this;
Why do you think World of Warcraft has become the most popular MMO ever, like 20 times more popular than the 2nd MMO?
Flying mounts cool?I am not surprised here at all,i said that was Aion's gimmick to make sales,and most tried to dispute it,but this proves that people really do get reeled in by cheap gimmicks.To answer your query,no i do not think it is cool,it is nothing more than a cheap gimmick,weather a game has it or not,it will never determine weather i play a game or not.
Good. I can fly in my modern MMO's, while you crawl around in Final Fantasy. Win win for us both
3 different ways to develop your toon.....FFXI has WOW beat right out of the gate,well at level 18 anyhow,you get to have a sub job,this gives you MANY different ways to customize your player.Also Blizzard just copied SOE's player design,where as in FFXI you get to have EVERY class on ONE player,you do not need to reroll or create alts to play another class.So Blizzard's design is nothing to brag about,they fail when compared to FFXI's player customization.I also failed to mention that choosing your race also has a HUGE difference in class design,the differences are noticeable throughout ALL levels of the game,VERY noticeable.
You should know, that comparing a Themepark MMO to a Sandbox MMO, is considered the biggest sin there is. For this you will suffer alot in your afterdeath... (This is a joke though. I fear you would not understand it, so I had to tell you this, before you start whining)
Once again the ability to vanish in mid fight is done cheaply in WOW and they didn't even implement properly when they released the ability ,it was a fail for quite some time,until they fixed it.In FFXI the Thief has the ability to perform a HIDE,this means for a couple seconds you hide from the mob allowing you to either escape or move behind the mob.This is actually a more skillful approach to the ability of vanishing,because it is only a short time and makes you think quickly about your next decision.Yo ucan either attempt to run or utilize a special hi damage Thief ability known as Sneak Attack.
More clueless letters from you. After reading your description of that skanky "thief", I would say Blizzard has optimized and perfected the Rogue. I have yet to see any other rogue class with the same advanced toolset and effectiveness as the Rogue in World of Warcraft. I would choose the WoW Rogue any day over your poorly described "thief". (Who the heck would want to play a "thief" anyway??)
There is another factor of course witch makes it more realistic,not every mob can be fooled by your hide ability on sight oriented mobs,as some mobs have sound abilities to track players
This shows again you have no clue about any other MMO, especially not World of Warcraft.
some even have the ability to track badly injured players[low hp],going invisible will not matter.
You think THAT is so "awesome"?? In case you didnt know, you cannot even stealth when a damage over time is affecting you in World of Warcraft.
WOW fails big time because it does not take this kind of mob/player ability,it does not have the same DEPTH of game play as FFXI does.
o'rly? How can you say this with your non-existant experience with other MMO's?
This is the big problem with so many WOW players,they think WOW is the ONLY game that does or has it's abilities,
No, this is obviously a problem for you. May I suggest some kind of therapy for people who hates WoW?
WOW for the most part is just a 99% copy of EQ already seen that done that,and most of it's game design is done cheap mode not allowing players to think,
And your comments here are 'well thought about' before you posted them?
just hit hotbar macros and everything becomes easy mode.Add in heal pots and auto play ADD-ONS and WOW becomes even more easy mode,
I guess you have done it all then in WoW? Been a top raider and a top pvp'er. Well, let me take a wiiiiiild guess; your answer is "no". It was too easy? Yeah right.
I dare you then; Come back, try become a top pvp'er. Make it even harder, by doing this solo. I happen to know one dude who is rated 2200 in Arena. Solo. Try do that better if you think this is so easy "mr superman".
this IS the true reason why players like WOW, it caters to less thinking and easy mode game play.
No. This is the true reason why you hate WoW; you have serious problems with other people enjoying something you are unable to handle & understand.
This is also proven by the fact that so many think instances are the cool,because normal game play is so poor,it makes their instances look much more intriguing than they really are.
No. The proof here is that people in World of Warcraft are having fun. You enjoy your cup of tea, while you do the favor of letting other people enjoying their cup of tea. If you are having a problem with that, I really have to say that problem of yours is beyond the reach of a cure.
.
Now; please say this post of yours was a joke. It was? Right? I refuse to belive this was no more than an attempt to post something "fun".
chrisel, you seem unable to accept that other people don't view wow's rogue as a unique class in the same vein as you. Just realize that and move on.
I will say that stealth in general in these games is a broken mechanic. The only game I've played that is sort of realistic is AoC and even then it's not that realistic. IMO, games would be better off if they just remove the stealth mechanic (unless they are made specifically for it, like the Thief series).
chrisel, you seem unable to accept that other people don't view wow's rogue as a unique class in the same vein as you. Just realize that and move on. I will say that stealth in general in these games is a broken mechanic. The only game I've played that is sort of realistic is AoC and even then it's not that realistic. IMO, games would be better off if they just remove the stealth mechanic (unless they are made specifically for it, like the Thief series).
I have to agree with stealth being a bad/broken mechanic in most games. DDO seemed to have a pretty good system though. It took the environment into consideration, like needing shadows to hide or line of sight, etc. At some point the hide in shadows concept behind stealth became invisibility in terms of mmo mechanics and that really isn't something that rogues (or whatever they may be called) do.
In response to the OP and his opinions,i will explain of course,the ideas are not good for the community,just self minded reasons. tight to play?this one loses me,you talk about control of your avatar,and compare it to AO and FE?lol those are not good games to compare it to,and LOTR i have not played so i cannot comment.IMO your meaning of tight sounds too much geared towards your next statements ,witch talk about solo play.Your player SHOULD feel smooth to operate within a group,something i actually did not like in EQ or WOW,battles are more or less a mess,geared towards more to solo play than grouping.When i was locked into auto combat in FFXI,i felt like my player was always at a natural distance,never crowded or standing on top of other players.when it came to performing Rankai.i felt the transition from my group mates to performing my weapon skill very smooth considering i was at 600 ping a lot of the times.In wow and EQ2 nobody really cares who or when people perform weapon skill combos,they all just button mash. Top solo content?is this suppose to be a good thing?we are playing a MMO here not a single player game.There is a VERY good reason Blizzard has so much solo content,it is because they do not know how to create a good grouped environment,they copied all their game play from Eq.WOW is just like EQ,even in a group you are still pretty much a solo player. Flying mounts cool?I am not surprised here at all,i said that was Aion's gimmick to make sales,and most tried to dispute it,but this proves that people really do get reeled in by cheap gimmicks.To answer your query,no i do not think it is cool,it is nothing more than a cheap gimmick,weather a game has it or not,it will never determine weather i play a game or not. 3 different ways to develop your toon.....FFXI has WOW beat right out of the gate,well at level 18 anyhow,you get to have a sub job,this gives you MANY different ways to customize your player.Also Blizzard just copied SOE's player design,where as in FFXI you get to have EVERY class on ONE player,you do not need to reroll or create alts to play another class.So Blizzard's design is nothing to brag about,they fail when compared to FFXI's player customization.I also failed to mention that choosing your race also has a HUGE difference in class design,the differences are noticeable throughout ALL levels of the game,VERY noticeable. Once again the ability to vanish in mid fight is done cheaply in WOW and they didn't even implement properly when they released the ability ,it was a fail for quite some time,until they fixed it.In FFXI the Thief has the ability to perform a HIDE,this means for a couple seconds you hide from the mob allowing you to either escape or move behind the mob.This is actually a more skillful approach to the ability of vanishing,because it is only a short time and makes you think quickly about your next decision.Yo ucan either attempt to run or utilize a special hi damage Thief ability known as Sneak Attack.There is another factor of course witch makes it more realistic,not every mob can be fooled by your hide ability on sight oriented mobs,as some mobs have sound abilities to track playerssome even have the ability to track badly injured players[low hp],going invisible will not matter.WOW fails big time because it does not take this kind of mob/player ability,it does not have the same DEPTH of game play as FFXI does. This is the big problem with so many WOW players,they think WOW is the ONLY game that does or has it's abilities,WOW for the most part is just a 99% copy of EQ already seen that done that,and most of it's game design is done cheap mode not allowing players to think,just hit hotbar macros and everything becomes easy mode.Add in heal pots and auto play ADD-ONS and WOW becomes even more easy mode,this IS the true reason why players like WOW,it caters to less thinking and easy mode game play.This is also proven by the fact that so many think instances are the cool,because normal game play is so poor,it makes their instances look much more intriguing than they really are.
He probably took 30-45 minutes out of his way to troll. There is no denying WoW is the greatest MMO ever (stat wise/money wise) but seriously, we all like our own games and right now I enjoy Darkfall Online and World of Warcraft. used to think WoW was too easy, until I decided to go hard mode and do 25 man ICC heroic. I also like 2 COMPLETELY different MMORPG experiences so i must say that each has its up and downs. Mostly though, it has its own set of gamers. I am like Miley Cyrus, I get the best of both worlds ;D
1. It is very 'tight' to play; When you press a button, something happens. Just played Lord of the Rings Online, Anarchy Online & Fallen Earth; last 2 games are actually very exhausting while LOTRO has way to much casting/induction time on actions. I have played lots of MMO's, no other game can give me same feeling when it comes to be in control of my Avatar as I get in WoW.
Pretty much dead on with this. I say it all the time, if LOTRO had the same combat as WOW it would have 3x the subs. It beats WOW in alot of areas but this flaw is what dooms the game from ever being what it could have been.
chrisel, you seem unable to accept that other people don't view wow's rogue as a unique class in the same vein as you. Just realize that and move on. I will say that stealth in general in these games is a broken mechanic. The only game I've played that is sort of realistic is AoC and even then it's not that realistic. IMO, games would be better off if they just remove the stealth mechanic (unless they are made specifically for it, like the Thief series).
This is funny....lets see a response.
Arenasb, you seem unable to accept that Chrisel does view Wow's rogue as a unique class. Just realize that and move on.
1. It is very 'tight' to play; When you press a button, something happens. Just played Lord of the Rings Online, Anarchy Online & Fallen Earth; last 2 games are actually very exhausting while LOTRO has way to much casting/induction time on actions. I have played lots of MMO's, no other game can give me same feeling when it comes to be in control of my Avatar as I get in WoW.
Pretty much dead on with this. I say it all the time, if LOTRO had the same combat as WOW it would have 3x the subs. It beats WOW in alot of areas but this flaw is what dooms the game from ever being what it could have been.
I have to agree...something about LOTRO's animations and combat keeps losing me. Like the quests and story, but the combat just bores me to watch or be part of.
It kept the wife and I busy off and on for a few years. I actually enjoyed the story and lore when i took the time to read the quests. Though the end game is a travesty. I truly hate the end game raiding. I like soloing and small group content don't like large scale pve at all. Shouldn't need an army for anything outside of pvp imo.
no arenasb...you are trying to fight his personal view of the class....if people would just accept that is his view and move on it would be a moot point as you are telling him to do about other people's view of the class.
The OP is a little high and has played few mmorpgs before and might have a poor system.
If your not noticing your toon reacting when you hit your button its called LAG. I never had that issue in Fallen Earth or LOTRO, Warhammer, and I and if you want to see power and control in your character thas AOC best fighting system out them. Eve also was responvie. only time any of those games did not respond was becuase of LAG or the game was demanding too much from my system.
Rogue in WoW is no where near unuque man come on. At this point in time i dont think any game really has that unuque of a class.
Dont care to much about flying mounts, but I think you can also have them Dark Fall and Lineage 2
Warhammer has 3 ways to develop your toon as well, dont see why 3 over 2 is so great.
WoW is popular becuase its simple and easy and works well on all systems it doenst try to offend or dare to be different not that its abad thing, I admit that its not a bad game. I just wished they would of released warcraft 4 instead of focused so much on WoW.
no arenasb...you are trying to fight his personal view of the class....if people would just accept that is his view and move on it would be a moot point as you are telling him to do about other people's view of the class.
chrisel, you seem unable to accept that other people don't view wow's rogue as a unique class in the same vein as you. Just realize that and move on. I will say that stealth in general in these games is a broken mechanic. The only game I've played that is sort of realistic is AoC and even then it's not that realistic. IMO, games would be better off if they just remove the stealth mechanic (unless they are made specifically for it, like the Thief series).
Certainly not.
I feel quite fine when I say I find the Rogue quite awesome in every way. Only exceeded by the Druid. People may have different opinion than me, I have no problem with that. What do seem to be a huge problem though, is that people becomes quite nerd-rage when I, personally, find the Rogue unique and full of tricks, unrivalled by any Rogue-class whatsoever MMO there is.
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What people seem to fail to understand, is that the Rogue in WoW, is more than just the stealth & vanish. I am in no interest of lining up the colossal wide range of skills, tools and playstyles the Rogue has to offer in WoW, cause that would be just too much. The Rogue has 3 different talent trees, which offer 3 quite different playstyles and comes with their own bag of tricks.
I doubt anyone could describe the World of Warcraft Rogue in this forum, which says alot about the class I think.
I have spendt countless hours in the official forum, reading about the Rogue. There is always some new trick to read about. It seem to never stop coming new stuff from creative Rogues. In comparison, it would take me just a few lines to describe the Burglar in LOTRO.
Comments
If what you said doesn't make any sense to you, then I'm not gonna bother convincing ya. It's quite evident that nostalgia keeps people from enjoying newer games, and WoW players that haven't tried anything else yet simply don't know any better.
It's obvious, at least to the vast majority that have been stating this fact for the better part of a few years now.
Is there not a hoard of people looking for a replacement for UO/EQ?
Is there not a hoard of people that keep going back to WoW since it was the first, and best one they *have* tried?
Both points reflect perception altering amounts of nostalgic idiocy.
Okay, lets for now say it is true that people stay in MMO's for pure nostalgica. Tell me then, what is this "cap" at; how many games can you put into this "nostalgica" box; can it hold more than 1, or is it room for only 1 single MMO?
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
The "cap" is based on time spent. A good year+ is all it takes for me to completely tire of something, for others it could be 3-4+. I have a soft spot for UO and SWG, but I'm never going to probably play them again. The time to move on was long ago.
You also see this aspect in the flurry of posts saying "I played WoW for years, tried to resub, and I just don't have it in me to play anymore". We all see that often enough, and it's the same boat I was in years ago over my first loves.
I do think it's reserved for one game at a time too, yes. You are very likely to play two MMOs, but spend more time in one until you tire of it, then treat the other like the main. At some point you'll be over them both though.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Well, theres one major change within me; I have stopped buying every new MMO release, as I did in the early 2000'.
Now I wait, then try find reviews, videos etc etc, and last and most importantly; visit MMORPG.
I have soft spots for 4 games myself; Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft & Lord of the Rings Online. Only talking MMO's here; there are other games that also lies very strong to my heart...
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Let's take this as an example.
If WOW doesn't do anything special, why is it the only game with mutli million western subscribers around? So actually, there must be something "special" to assure it has 20x, 30x or even more income.
The OP gave his opinion why. You can only come up with games which actually proved there is a difference.
That difference being "just more players pay for it on a monthly basis" is only the result. Not the reason.The question was why. Marketing - as someone said - doesn't explain it (see AOC, WAR, LOTRO, ...).
It's not because you don't see "it", that "it" isn't there... because the result is there.
Keep it simple.
It is better for the majority of people that want to play subscription based games.
People have a right to pay for what they like.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
why people play wow - it is E A S Y. That is only answer. Thank you for reading and understanding this
Define easy.
Because becoming Wrathful gladiator is extremely hard (best PvP ranked player of a 100.000 people competition).
And only a handful guilds can down the hardest bosses on the latest 25 heroics these days.
As talking of mechanics: the best games are always constructed around the KISS mechanism.
- Chess, MTG, Poker.,...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Actually it is a reason, and an important one as well - people who play attract some of their RL friends (if they still have them, of course) to that game. Of course they wouldn't do that to a very bad game, but I've seen it happen a lot in WOW, EVE and LOTRO.
Marketing probably explains a part as well - I started with WOW to see what the hype was all about, I knew I like MUDs and because there was a stack of cheap boxes on the counter of a toy store I visited.
It's hard to compare marketing effort between games, though. All marketing efforts of AOC, WAR and LOTRO added together that reached are only a tiny fraction of WOW's marketing I have undergone... but that might be Europe?
In response to the OP and his opinions,i will explain of course,the ideas are not good for the community,just self minded reasons.
tight to play?this one loses me,you talk about control of your avatar,and compare it to AO and FE?lol those are not good games to compare it to,and LOTR i have not played so i cannot comment.IMO your meaning of tight sounds too much geared towards your next statements ,witch talk about solo play.Your player SHOULD feel smooth to operate within a group,something i actually did not like in EQ or WOW,battles are more or less a mess,geared towards more to solo play than grouping.When i was locked into auto combat in FFXI,i felt like my player was always at a natural distance,never crowded or standing on top of other players.when it came to performing Rankai.i felt the transition from my group mates to performing my weapon skill very smooth considering i was at 600 ping a lot of the times.In wow and EQ2 nobody really cares who or when people perform weapon skill combos,they all just button mash.
Top solo content?is this suppose to be a good thing?we are playing a MMO here not a single player game.There is a VERY good reason Blizzard has so much solo content,it is because they do not know how to create a good grouped environment,they copied all their game play from Eq.WOW is just like EQ,even in a group you are still pretty much a solo player.
Flying mounts cool?I am not surprised here at all,i said that was Aion's gimmick to make sales,and most tried to dispute it,but this proves that people really do get reeled in by cheap gimmicks.To answer your query,no i do not think it is cool,it is nothing more than a cheap gimmick,weather a game has it or not,it will never determine weather i play a game or not.
3 different ways to develop your toon.....FFXI has WOW beat right out of the gate,well at level 18 anyhow,you get to have a sub job,this gives you MANY different ways to customize your player.Also Blizzard just copied SOE's player design,where as in FFXI you get to have EVERY class on ONE player,you do not need to reroll or create alts to play another class.So Blizzard's design is nothing to brag about,they fail when compared to FFXI's player customization.I also failed to mention that choosing your race also has a HUGE difference in class design,the differences are noticeable throughout ALL levels of the game,VERY noticeable.
Once again the ability to vanish in mid fight is done cheaply in WOW and they didn't even implement properly when they released the ability ,it was a fail for quite some time,until they fixed it.In FFXI the Thief has the ability to perform a HIDE,this means for a couple seconds you hide from the mob allowing you to either escape or move behind the mob.This is actually a more skillful approach to the ability of vanishing,because it is only a short time and makes you think quickly about your next decision.Yo ucan either attempt to run or utilize a special hi damage Thief ability known as Sneak Attack.There is another factor of course witch makes it more realistic,not every mob can be fooled by your hide ability on sight oriented mobs,as some mobs have sound abilities to track playerssome even have the ability to track badly injured players[low hp],going invisible will not matter.WOW fails big time because it does not take this kind of mob/player ability,it does not have the same DEPTH of game play as FFXI does.
This is the big problem with so many WOW players,they think WOW is the ONLY game that does or has it's abilities,WOW for the most part is just a 99% copy of EQ already seen that done that,and most of it's game design is done cheap mode not allowing players to think,just hit hotbar macros and everything becomes easy mode.Add in heal pots and auto play ADD-ONS and WOW becomes even more easy mode,this IS the true reason why players like WOW,it caters to less thinking and easy mode game play.This is also proven by the fact that so many think instances are the cool,because normal game play is so poor,it makes their instances look much more intriguing than they really are.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If what you said doesn't make any sense to you, then I'm not gonna bother convincing ya. It's quite evident that nostalgia keeps people from enjoying newer games, and WoW players that haven't tried anything else yet simply don't know any better.
It's obvious, at least to the vast majority that have been stating this fact for the better part of a few years now.
Is there not a hoard of people looking for a replacement for UO/EQ?
Is there not a hoard of people that keep going back to WoW since it was the first, and best one they *have* tried?
Both points reflect perception altering amounts of nostalgic idiocy.
Were there hordes of people that had no problem leaving the nostalgia/first love of UO? Yes, why was that? EQ.
Were there hordes of people that had no problem leaving the nostalgia/first love of EQ? Yes, why was that? WoW
Were there hordes of people that had no problem leaving the nostalgia/first love of WoW? Yes. What is that new game?
Age of conan? Warhammer online? Vanguard? Tabula Rasa? EQ2? DDO? CO? STO?
Oh look, I think we have found an answer why wow has such an easy time retaining players and people are not gleefully running to a new game. Just look at the crap the market has offered the last 5 years and you want to blame players for not switching games? That is seriously your best answer?
I was fully aware of what you said and I was just pointing out the absurdity of your claims. New mmos are selling over 1 million copies of games or hundreds of thousands and you want to pretend none of those are wow players? Every new game is filled with people bitching about "the wow community" ruining new releases, but of course there are no wow players trying new games?
Do not assume that the lack of growth of other mmos is a result of people not trying them. We have witnessed mmo growth records get broken twice last year and shortly followed by the most rapid declines in mmo history. It is very clear that people are trying new games, but those games are not delivering a compelling reason for gamers to switch.
Blaming nostalgia is just not being realistic about the situation.
No collision detection is a choice of programers in games about game play not about realism really.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
chrisel, you seem unable to accept that other people don't view wow's rogue as a unique class in the same vein as you. Just realize that and move on.
I will say that stealth in general in these games is a broken mechanic. The only game I've played that is sort of realistic is AoC and even then it's not that realistic. IMO, games would be better off if they just remove the stealth mechanic (unless they are made specifically for it, like the Thief series).
I have to agree with stealth being a bad/broken mechanic in most games. DDO seemed to have a pretty good system though. It took the environment into consideration, like needing shadows to hide or line of sight, etc. At some point the hide in shadows concept behind stealth became invisibility in terms of mmo mechanics and that really isn't something that rogues (or whatever they may be called) do.
He probably took 30-45 minutes out of his way to troll. There is no denying WoW is the greatest MMO ever (stat wise/money wise) but seriously, we all like our own games and right now I enjoy Darkfall Online and World of Warcraft. used to think WoW was too easy, until I decided to go hard mode and do 25 man ICC heroic. I also like 2 COMPLETELY different MMORPG experiences so i must say that each has its up and downs. Mostly though, it has its own set of gamers. I am like Miley Cyrus, I get the best of both worlds ;D
Pepsi1028
PEPSI!!!!!
Get out of your box already...
Don't pay too much attention to most of these posts OP.
I'm the human equivelant of WoW, superior in every way, and I get hated on all the time too.
And yeah, WoW seems too easy until you hit the hardmode content. Then what's up.
Pretty much dead on with this. I say it all the time, if LOTRO had the same combat as WOW it would have 3x the subs. It beats WOW in alot of areas but this flaw is what dooms the game from ever being what it could have been.
This is funny....lets see a response.
Arenasb, you seem unable to accept that Chrisel does view Wow's rogue as a unique class. Just realize that and move on.
Pretty much dead on with this. I say it all the time, if LOTRO had the same combat as WOW it would have 3x the subs. It beats WOW in alot of areas but this flaw is what dooms the game from ever being what it could have been.
I have to agree...something about LOTRO's animations and combat keeps losing me. Like the quests and story, but the combat just bores me to watch or be part of.
Copycat game Hor?
It kept the wife and I busy off and on for a few years. I actually enjoyed the story and lore when i took the time to read the quests. Though the end game is a travesty. I truly hate the end game raiding. I like soloing and small group content don't like large scale pve at all. Shouldn't need an army for anything outside of pvp imo.
no arenasb...you are trying to fight his personal view of the class....if people would just accept that is his view and move on it would be a moot point as you are telling him to do about other people's view of the class.
The OP is a little high and has played few mmorpgs before and might have a poor system.
If your not noticing your toon reacting when you hit your button its called LAG. I never had that issue in Fallen Earth or LOTRO, Warhammer, and I and if you want to see power and control in your character thas AOC best fighting system out them. Eve also was responvie. only time any of those games did not respond was becuase of LAG or the game was demanding too much from my system.
Rogue in WoW is no where near unuque man come on. At this point in time i dont think any game really has that unuque of a class.
Dont care to much about flying mounts, but I think you can also have them Dark Fall and Lineage 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtMnKvR51Js&feature=related lineage your wyvern has a breath weapon you can use on people.
Warhammer has 3 ways to develop your toon as well, dont see why 3 over 2 is so great.
WoW is popular becuase its simple and easy and works well on all systems it doenst try to offend or dare to be different not that its abad thing, I admit that its not a bad game. I just wished they would of released warcraft 4 instead of focused so much on WoW.
Fair enough.
the OP is the reason why i stopped defending WoW fan boys a long time ago.
Certainly not.
I feel quite fine when I say I find the Rogue quite awesome in every way. Only exceeded by the Druid. People may have different opinion than me, I have no problem with that. What do seem to be a huge problem though, is that people becomes quite nerd-rage when I, personally, find the Rogue unique and full of tricks, unrivalled by any Rogue-class whatsoever MMO there is.
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What people seem to fail to understand, is that the Rogue in WoW, is more than just the stealth & vanish. I am in no interest of lining up the colossal wide range of skills, tools and playstyles the Rogue has to offer in WoW, cause that would be just too much. The Rogue has 3 different talent trees, which offer 3 quite different playstyles and comes with their own bag of tricks.
I doubt anyone could describe the World of Warcraft Rogue in this forum, which says alot about the class I think.
I have spendt countless hours in the official forum, reading about the Rogue. There is always some new trick to read about. It seem to never stop coming new stuff from creative Rogues. In comparison, it would take me just a few lines to describe the Burglar in LOTRO.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!