VP oooh VP... good idea? maybe, maybe not.. imo good idea gone horribly wrong ..will it ever be redone? No...way to many flaws
i always did the rez out of VP..leaving a corpse outside of VP an having someone rez you . in my case my RL friend would rez me..most the time not needed but if having to leave before the raid was over or somethin it came in handy ..
never heard of anyone losing a corpse in VP..pretty much anyone with a VP key had back up to get a corpse..im sure there are a few that have , as someone else said had a nerd rage an said screw it ive had more trouble getting corpses out of sebilis than VP
worse thing about a raid wipe in VP for me was when we would have the ass at 5-10% an gettin killed...waitin on rez from pocket cleric/necro...rebuffing took 100x longer than ever gettin to the freakin raid guys .
here one for the old VP raiders
/shout. WHY THE F**K AM I N THE KITTEN BOX!?! I DIDNT TRAIN ANYONE!
The issue here is that the people you are arguing with already consider you a bad player who should not be playing MMORPGs with them. You prefer to spend your time constructively and prefer not to have artificial blocks put in front of you when you try to improve yourself as a player. If you do not strive for absolute perfection all the time and punish yourself for every minor imperfection or mistake then you simply do not deserve to play a MMORPG. LOL .. this is silly. ".. deserve to play ..." .. ha ha ha. I have news to you. MMORPGs are GAMES .. ENTERTAINMENT PRODUCTS. Companies try to attract players, not give them SATs and boot them if they don't measure up. And you think people care about what other think they should or should not play? So what are you going to do? Lecture people who cannot learn how to down a boss? And there is a good reason why you are the kind of people where the market is trending AWAY from.
Am I really that bad in writing sarcastic comments? My last sentence could have used a couple more qualifiers but I thought it was pretty obvious attempt to mock the OP and his supporters.
As far as I'm concerned, gaming companies have focused end game content towards hardcore elitests for far too long. I don't want future games to make 90% of their end game for 10% of the gaming population. I'm sick to death of the majority funding the content of the minority. The problem is that there are too many hardcore developers who don't give a rat's ass about the regular gamer. They create low level casual content to draw in the money from the majority, then spend it on their hardcore raiding buddies. Even World of Warcraft rips off it's casual gamers in preferential treatment of raiders. I'm waiting for these hardcore friendly developers to finally make a 100% hardcore game and see if it can really succeed financially without us carebears there to support it.
Well stated. WoW's new dungeon finder is a step in the right direction in terms of allowing more people to experience the higher level instance content. Most people may never raid, but if they are even a little patient and consistent they can gear up their characters to a MUCH greater extent than they could before. Raiders will be raiders... Different things for different people.
Though I'm not an adrenaline rush type of person I think it's sad that games have no room for such places. They SHOULD have such places. But as Jeffrey Steefel very nicely explained to me regarding the change of the original old forest in LOTRO "you see, getting lost is not fun...". Well, to ME getting lost IS fun. So "no" I don't think in most of today's mmo's you would find such an area. Shame really.
I'd have to agree wth you there. Those types of features tend to get more and more watered down as the game goes from alpha to launch and even past launch. It's too bad, really.
LOTRO is a really good example. If I remember right, in beta your radar was disabled in the Old Forest. People cmplained, so they scratched the idea. Even then, it was still a some what confusing place, very easy to get lost. From what I've heard, they eventually toned that down and made it easier to navigate. That's too bad.
Sure, for some players this makes things more convenient and less frustrating. For the rest of us, it turns the game into a complete and utter bore where nothing unexpected ever happens.
Honestly, I don't see why there's an issue in the first place. You can have zones like the Old Forest that are confusing, difficult, challenging, and risky. As long as the zone isn't a requirement, what's the problem? You don't want to be inconvenienced and thrown off the pace of your quest train, then don't go there.
But no, it can't work that way. People buy an MMO and think they're entitled to frolic, have a picnic, and fumble their way through every bit of the game. If they can't, bitching ensues. So, what we end up with is bland zone after bland, predictable zone.
So back in the day of EQ - Kunark, there was a zone called Veeshans Peak. It consisted of the best gear in the game hands down, and was the hardest zone as well. Here is the kicker though.. You could not gate out. You could not die without leaving your gear behind. You HAD to make it to the end of the zone or else you lost everything. There was no other exit except after the boss dragon of the zone. The risk vs reward was immense, but to come out on top was something very few accomplished or even tried. Do you think such a place would ever fit in todays MMO world? Or would too many people attempt it, lose all their gear, and whine until the devs caved and dismembered the zone into something that can casually be completed? I miss places like that. I miss the risks. I miss the REWARDS. Man, what a feeling coming out on top from that place, knowing that one mess up and your whole raids corpses and equipment would be dragon food. The feeling was unlike anything current MMOs could ever offer. Adrenaline rush would be an understatement. I can only pray that one day, a game that follows the same concept of old school EQ is born. True risks. True rewards.
Except people that attempted it had backup gear for their backup gear for their backup gear.. So to the people that tried it it wasnt a big risk.
Though I'm not an adrenaline rush type of person I think it's sad that games have no room for such places. They SHOULD have such places. But as Jeffrey Steefel very nicely explained to me regarding the change of the original old forest in LOTRO "you see, getting lost is not fun...". Well, to ME getting lost IS fun. So "no" I don't think in most of today's mmo's you would find such an area. Shame really.
I'd have to agree wth you there. Those types of features tend to get more and more watered down as the game goes from alpha to launch and even past launch. It's too bad, really.
LOTRO is a really good example. If I remember right, in beta your radar was disabled in the Old Forest. People cmplained, so they scratched the idea. Even then, it was still a some what confusing place, very easy to get lost. From what I've heard, they eventually toned that down and made it easier to navigate. That's too bad.
Sure, for some players this makes things more convenient and less frustrating. For the rest of us, it turns the game into a complete and utter bore where nothing unexpected ever happens.
Honestly, I don't see why there's an issue in the first place. You can have zones like the Old Forest that are confusing, difficult, challenging, and risky. As long as the zone isn't a requirement, what's the problem? You don't want to be inconvenienced and thrown off the pace of your quest train, then don't go there.
But no, it can't work that way. People buy an MMO and think they're entitled to frolic, have a picnic, and fumble their way through every bit of the game. If they can't, bitching ensues. So, what we end up with is bland zone after bland, predictable zone.
Now this is a good example of Risk vs Reward system that I can agree with. The old Old Forest annoyed the hell out of me, and I remember spending hours navigating the maze trying to find all the flowers and completing all the quest. Yet I love it cause it is a giant maze with deathtrap all over the place and couple steps in the wrong direction and you'll find yourself running for your life as wolves, bats, and giant killer tree chasing after you hunger for your blood. I remember cursing as myself for being a bonehead and return to the same stupid stump 5 times in 10 minute as I attempt to find my way out. With possible danger at every corner and no map to guide me, I found my heart racing as I tried to navigate this place determined to complete all my quest. I still remember relief and how proud I felt once I finally completing all my quest and emerged victoriously (with about 10 death in all).
The only thing that come to my head once I die, taking an xp hit, and deleveled was "great... I die... Now I have to spend the next hour grinding on some stupid mob just so I get back to doing what I did before". The feeling I felt from that death was not a disappointment of failing. All I got from that death was the dreaded boring future I have to face doing the same shit I did before just so I can get my character back to the stage where I was having fun improving up and enjoying the new content.
I have fun when I gain some loot. I have fun when I explore the new land. I have fun when I defeat a difficult boss that my guild been wiping on for the past 30 tries. I DO NOT HAVE FUN WHEN I HAVE TO REGRIND ON SOME OLD SHIT I DID BEFORE TO MAKE THE XP LOST I GOT WHEN I DIE 10 TIME ON SOME RAID BOSS.
To the guy saying harsh death penalties dont make the encounter harder, sure, they dont. But what they do accomplish is creating significant risk if you overstep what you are capable of. The RISK is what needs to be put back in these games. If WoW made it so you lost the same amount of xp as well as having to get your corpse back people would not use death as a quick way to travel. Nor would they just run through zones of level 80 mobs chasing behind them because they know there is no risk even if you do die. Its pointless. Its sort of like playing bumper bowling, sure its fun, but real bowling has consequences if you bowl like an idiot, unlike bumper bowling where no matter what you hit the pins. Too many games these days dont have the nail biting risk factor that made your heart jump out of your chest during certain encounters. When the odds are stacked against you, knowing full well the penalty for death, it made you fight harder. It may not have made the actual encounter harder, but it totally changes the game play dynamics in a positive way. When death is feared you fight harder, more carefully, and learn to work as a team to be more efficient. I dont understand why people wouldn't want risk in a MMO. Whats the point of trying harder encounters if dying doesnt matter? Anyone can fight something thirty times and finally win. I think it mostly has to do with todays generation of teens and young adults. I remember reading a study where kids these days getting out of college are completely overwhelmed with the real world. Its tough, and they never experienced challenges in their life. They just float on by with mommy and daddy paving the way. Then when the parents arent there any more, they hit a brick wall and whine until somebody takes them under their wing and does everything for them. Remember the saying, "In my day, we used to walk twelve miles to school, uphill, in the snow every day."? Well, now its more like, "We got a ride to school every day, and the teacher gave us all good grades so she didnt hurt our feelings.". I say screw the feelings and bring back punishment. Something that pushes people to work harder and actually give a damn. Look at the epics in WoW. Are they epic? Hardly. Everybody has full epics. The people these days whine and cry when a game is "unfair", and someone has something they want but cant have. It makes me feel like im teaching in a daycare again with a bunch of literal babies. Welfare epics. Sad.
Of all the post made on this top so far, this one is by far use just about the worst example for just about everything so I'll take some extra time and dissect this.
To the guy saying harsh death penalties dont make the encounter harder, sure, they dont. But what they do accomplish is creating significant risk if you overstep what you are capable of. The RISK is what needs to be put back in these games. If WoW made it so you lost the same amount of xp as well as having to get your corpse back people would not use death as a quick way to travel. Nor would they just run through zones of level 80 mobs chasing behind them because they know there is no risk even if you do die. Its pointless. Its sort of like playing bumper bowling, sure its fun, but real bowling has consequences if you bowl like an idiot, unlike bumper bowling where no matter what you hit the pins.
Having harsh death punishment and not is not similar to bowling with or without a rail. If you want to use the bowling analogy, having harsh punishment for your game would be something similar to you having to pay for every fame you bowl while use WoW just pay for the unlimited frame and bowl as many time as we like for the same price. At the end of the day, both party bowl just as much as the other person. The only difference is that the harsh punishment player got stuck paying 10 or 20 times more like an idiot.
Too many games these days dont have the nail biting risk factor that made your heart jump out of your chest during certain encounters. When the odds are stacked against you, knowing full well the penalty for death, it made you fight harder. It may not have made the actual encounter harder, but it totally changes the game play dynamics in a positive way. When death is feared you fight harder, more carefully, and learn to work as a team to be more efficient.
I dont understand why people wouldn't want risk in a MMO. Whats the point of trying harder encounters if dying doesnt matter? Anyone can fight something thirty times and finally win.
While this might make the group perform a little better, what this will most definitely do it getting the poor bastard who make that one single mistake that gotten everyone kill to get flamed to kingdom come and possibly be replaced by someone else. If anything, having that much pressure to perform a task knowing the kind of risk involve could very well have a negative effect on the player. Having too much at stake could create too much tension for the player and in turn making that person more prone to making mistake.
Furthermore, having such harsh punishment would only take the focus away from trying to defeat the boss itself and more so on how can we get ourselves so gears and minimize our risk of dying by only taking the absolute best people that we all. This would then lead to guild who would want to progress to become more and more exclusive thus excluding more and more people who might became a very good player later on if someone would give them a chance and show them the rope.
I think it mostly has to do with todays generation of teens and young adults. I remember reading a study where kids these days getting out of college are completely overwhelmed with the real world. Its tough, and they never experienced challenges in their life. They just float on by with mommy and daddy paving the way. Then when the parents arent there any more, they hit a brick wall and whine until somebody takes them under their wing and does everything for them.
Remember the saying, "In my day, we used to walk twelve miles to school, uphill, in the snow every day."? Well, now its more like, "We got a ride to school every day, and the teacher gave us all good grades so she didnt hurt our feelings.". I say screw the feelings and bring back punishment. Something that pushes people to work harder and actually give a damn.
Of all the analogy that you used, this is by far the dumbest one yet... Get this into your head that people you don't want harsh punishment don't expect everything to be handed to them in a silver platter. We want to go to the same school that you go to, having the same teacher, and taking the same course that you are taking. If we fail at math, what we want to do is take math over and over again till we are smart enough to pass it. What we DON'T want is having to repeat the entire grade just because we failed at math.
Look at the epics in WoW. Are they epic? Hardly. Everybody has full epics. The people these days whine and cry when a game is "unfair", and someone has something they want but cant have. It makes me feel like im teaching in a daycare again with a bunch of literal babies. Welfare epics. Sad.
Since you want to use analogy so much, let me give you an analogy of my own. Having welfare epic compare to raid epic is like a guy graduating from high school and a guy graduating from college both get a manager position. The big difference there is that the high school graduate is the manager of Burger King while the college graduate will be the manage of a major corporation. Sure, both of those people are manager technically and might have some similar role. However, the earning between the two manager will most definitely wont be the same. You people bitching about welfare epic is similar to the corporate manage bitching about sharing the same title as the Burger King manager. It is not the same so get over it!
Harsh penalties that translate to lost time don't make the actual FIGHT any more fun or difficult. Never has, never will. If it did make it more fun, people would be dropping gold and deleting gear in WOW or LOTR when they wipe on a dungeon. They don't...hence...NOT fun. They don't choose to keep playing EQ either, hence, NOT fun ANYMORE. If you could choose instantly that in Darkfall or Eve, when you died, you didn't drop your gear and didn't lose your ship, lets take an honest guess as to how many more people would prefer to not lose anything. Who's taking bets? How many people played Dragon Age and NEVER used quick save or ONLY saved at the camp? How many played on normal or easy compared to the hardest difficulty? I played on hard, but thats because losing didn't translate to mindless LOST time. The actual fights were harder and required a lot more strategy which made it more fun. But in a MMO, penalties and time sinks don't make the fights harder. Its the same fight. Remove the corpse run and the dungeon is NOT more difficult. Its just more time consuming when you do happen to fail. And as we've seen over time, a corpse run is NOT fun for the vast majority. Penalizing a player's time does not lead to FUN gameplay. It does appeal to a select niche, but those people have long been forgotten by the higher quality developers. Thats life.
What I do not understand is that you guys keep talking about time this and time that.
MMORPGs = TIME SINKS. ALL OF THEM PERIOD. The whole point of an MMORPG is to get the player to play endlessly so that they keep paying the monthly fee.
Death Penatlies do make fights harder because players know that if they lose they lose time, they lose time that they will have to make up. Without the Death Penatlies people just throw themselfs at the encounter over and over and over again till they win, that is not how it should be. You should have to learn how to win the battle and if you do not learn quickly you should have to "pay" something and since we are playing MMORPGs, time is the logical thing to have to pay.
I do not understand the instant gradification crowd, I just do not understand it at all. Games are here for fun but I do not have fun unless I feel like I earned my victory and I cannot feel like I earned it if I risk nothing in trying to win the event/encounter/fight. That is my opinion and I know others do not share it but can you please explain why getting something with no risk or effort is rewarding?
Even older console games had Death penatlies that took time away from the player as the penatly. Look at super mario bro's, if you died you had to restart the whole level, that was the death penatly, making the player start the level over again.
You are treating instant gratification with encounter mechanics as if they are one in the same thing, which they are not.
Lets take the original dragons in everquest as an example. Specifically Vox.
When a raid wipes, there was the normal XP loss and time to rebuff, regroup, etc. Now lets pretend instead of 10% experience loss there wasn 50% experience loss.
Did the actual mechanics of the fight change? Did it become harder to kill her? Some new abilities come to life? If your group is consistantly killing her, did Lady Vox somehow become unkillable when the penalty for failure was increased?
No. It just became more time consuming. The fight didn't get longer or harder, just the time penalty BETWEEN actually playing the game got larger.
Harsh death penalties don't make the actual skill, abilities or knowledge of a fight any harder. Harsh death penalties only mean more down time. That is it.
Some people enjoy the risk associated with large death penalties, but that doesn't make the game any harder or require any more skill. It doesn't make other crave instant gratification for not enjoying extreme penalties.
Believe it or not some people enjoy playing and not being forced with excessive time sinks in between playing the game.
Exactly! RISK or TIME recouping is NOT difficulty. The fight is the same. The mechanics are the same. Hard Modes vs normal modes in dungeons make the game harder because the mechanics of the fight change. Having to grind for X number of hours to make up the EXP you lost does NOT make the encounter any harder. Only more tedious.
No your right it does not make the fight harder. It does make the players better. It makes the players learn faster, makes them listen to the leaders, it makes the whole event better to have a penatly that causes you to lose something valuable. (time is very valuable)
The fight does not get harder but the overall feel of the event has more of an edge if you risk losing something important which we can all agree on is time. Risk is what changes not the fight, the Risk is increased with a tough penatly. The fight stays the same, it does not get harder but to the players the event is "harder" because if they lose they lose something important to them vs the same event with no loss of anything.
This goes for all events not just raid events, if the risk to lose something is great, it makes the player better overall, makes them learn the ins and outs of their character. We can see this in the lack of PuGs now a days vs back in the old days. Today players do not have to learn their class nor are they punished if they do not learn their class. Every used pick up groups in older games because the bad player was rare and most players new one with in a few minutes of grouping.
If you think that MMORPGs are Tedious because of timesinks then you are playing the wrong kind of games, the whole point of MMORPGs is to get the player in a timesink. PERIOD. The longer the player spends playing the game, the more money you gain from said player.
Look at games today, 1 to 3 months max for most games before players get bored and move on to another game. That is a ton less money that the company could have made if they would have put risk into their games.
Look at Football. You have the NFL and the Women's lingerie league. Both games are still football. Football is football it does not get harder but with the NFL add the risk of big men and full contact. Now the NFL is harder then the other league. Football the game (the fight/event) is still football but now you added the risk to it which made it harder.
mm i dont know how it was back then but im began to play eq1 this week and aside from the lost time for understanding graphic setting and making sure all the / command for graphic were active i love this game
true the handholding is gone compared to wow ,i played wow 5 years and this everquest (1) is better and the fact they polished the graphic is the icing on the cake
hell i was goofing around in freeport today it was knight but the lamp eq furnish was not realistic at all.
like halgen light out of a candle get real lol i put that in inventory instead thinking it would boot the light i wanted to see the look and feel of freeport without the halogen light on my side.after some help i finally had not light .men with the new lighting effect and the night outch that city is one scary lloking city ,almost see nothing and just after you port out of the city theres so black wolf never saw them i was being killed lol by a couple of them but i couldnt see them a bit later i saw their name flash by i zoomed out my cam out of first person view no choice didnt see fuck all.men i love the mood of eq1 and the feel of it
i saw the ord outside freeport men skin so real its insane i was like men this is what orc skin look like!
baught underfoot its worth its asking price ,i saw the older graphic in some old part like the giant city start or the gnome
and beurk they are dated but those that have been worked on are trully nice .men i was wondering about this since i kept earing
that soe was redoing graphic of eq1 but i kept seeing stream or video of eq1 so bad it looked like they were form 1999.lol
on a side note grats to eq2 team for their new lunch video they fianlly put the proper quality setting on their screen and graphic card
A rush and feeling of victory from a computer game? No.
I don't take them that seriously. I raid from time to time but I mostly raid to socialize with the guildies. Some of my guildies are very poor players, but I don't mind.
A rush and feeling of victory from a computer game? No. I don't take them that seriously. I raid from time to time but I mostly raid to socialize with the guildies. Some of my guildies are very poor players, but I don't mind.
for me ,its what make the game fun!when weverybody knows the fight by heart its boring
its better when a few knows shit ,it keeps everybody sharp and make a boring scripted fight become something much more
i dont really mind about loosing or winning ,its a game .it gets frustratingly a bad game when someone has to farm and win at all cost.yes i like to win but no instead of having fun and noob bring the unscriptedness that game often need.
i think blizzard new system for grouping is right on the money ,you go in a dungeon win or loose everybody has a chance to get something.
it makes hard dungeon fun to do since most of the time the drop are about the = of what you lost .
I think the reason why VP worked is because eq1 had enough developers to have plenty of content so if you werent ready for VP there were PLENTY of other places you could do.
The reason VP worked is because there weren't alot of games out there, and WoW didn't exist. At the time (2000), you had UO and Everquest, Ahseron's Call and Anarchy Online. Lineage came out a little later and was much bigger in Asia than the US. They could do stuff with Everquest because the players didn't have alot of options to choose from.
EQ was THE big game at the time, and the overall MMO playing population was small. 'back in the day', most of the players were young adult, 'no lifers' that were either in school (lots of free time) or working part-time jobs living in their parents 'basement'. The internet was still fairly young and didn't have the market into the younger (13-18) or older (40+) crowd that it does now. It wasn't inconcievable that EQ players could and would put in 8-10-12 hours in a sitting for a single raid to kill ONE BOSS. They had free time and the money to spend on the game, and they were all concentrated in a single place (EQ).
Now... too many games to choose from so the pool of 'talent' that could pull off EQ1 style raiding isn't concentrated in one place. And noone wants risk large investments to develop 'hard' or 'risky' games when there is already a 'formula' for making a high population/subsciber game (WoW). Can and will it be done? Maybe, but the company would take the risk of develop something like this would be low budget (indie), but the resouces to put together compelling raiding environments and mechanics require a bigger budget.
poster 59 !if any country or mmo did that you know what everybody would say! STOP BEING LIKE CHINA!lol its that silly china isnt worst then anywhere else if you stay between the two line but like all country they got corrution issue like every country they got mafia ,hooker the whole 9 yard. but on a scale only india can match ,10% criminal in china means 250 million criminal imagine 250 milion criminal almost the whole population of usa do you think china can just slap the hand of the criminal and then say ok poor boy now you behave hell no china has to be harsh enough to scare people into line its the same thing for video game ,its too easy on various front.vanilla wow was a proper mmo but todays wow is just an mo!sad but true .so i decided to go buy an old classic the newest expension (underfoot and have fun there instead!
Tried EQ1 at launch, never could get into it. Tried again last year, same problem. Different games for different people. But I did like Asherons Call(one) back in the day. But I'd not want to go back to its dated graphics and harsh death penalties. As for the other, Tyrants through out human history have made the same claim that "the peasants need a *strong* hand to maintain order". Its always been simply an excuse for their brutality, lust for power and corruption.
So back in the day of EQ - Kunark, there was a zone called Veeshans Peak. It consisted of the best gear in the game hands down, and was the hardest zone as well. Here is the kicker though.. You could not gate out. You could not die without leaving your gear behind. You HAD to make it to the end of the zone or else you lost everything. There was no other exit except after the boss dragon of the zone. The risk vs reward was immense, but to come out on top was something very few accomplished or even tried. Do you think such a place would ever fit in todays MMO world? Or would too many people attempt it, lose all their gear, and whine until the devs caved and dismembered the zone into something that can casually be completed? I miss places like that. I miss the risks. I miss the REWARDS. Man, what a feeling coming out on top from that place, knowing that one mess up and your whole raids corpses and equipment would be dragon food. The feeling was unlike anything current MMOs could ever offer. Adrenaline rush would be an understatement. I can only pray that one day, a game that follows the same concept of old school EQ is born. True risks. True rewards.
Except people that attempted it had backup gear for their backup gear for their backup gear.. So to the people that tried it it wasnt a big risk.
And it would be a CHORE with no benefits to maintain back-up gear. It is much more straightforward and more fun just to do away with the penalty.
I agree with you. I keep looking for this game too. They are just too easy, and I get bored with them. They just do not make games for us. I miss the help you got from your fellow players, you had in the early eq days as well.
So what I am getting from this thread is that a small number of bad players who think chores are challenging are getting nostalgic and the decent players remember it had a number of ways around the barriers and was simply grindy and had long respawns.
Item loss = keep spares? Who woulda thunk it. Mighty challenging to think ahead and grind out a bunch more pieces. Yep I am already shaking in my boots. Corpse runs in a game where your corpse lasted weeks. Gimme a break I have played games where your stuff was gone in a couple hours and I kept spares just for that reason. Heck most MUDs only let you keep ANY item on a limited basis either only let you keep 6 or so or forced you to stored your stuff and pay for the priviledge.
EQ was light weight and none of this stuff is a challenge. Only bad players think this stuff is challenging.
Diablo 2 threw in the hardcore server as a last thought thinking who would play this hardcore server where you die once and you lose everything. The community was small but my god it was the most fun you could have. Being a lvl 40 was an accomplishment. If you hit lvl 40 people were like "DUDE NICE JOB".
Population from HC to SC was like 1:100 but my god was it fun with limited coding.
Just something to throw in there. Any MMO that comes out with a HC server, i'm down for it as long as they do allow for mechanisms to get your stuff back if you died.
Also, D2 allwoed for HC server with instant heals and the ability to Save and Exit in a millisecond . But the PKers (me) and the one-hit bosses and the MSLE.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
If I didnt have anything else to do, for whatever reason, besides play computer games, then I would be all over VP, and raids and dungeon crawls that could result in me dying after hours of adventuring and have to spend hours to get my gear back then I would be all over what original EQ tried to do back in the day. But, for those of us who have jobs, families, activities etc in the real world, there simply isnt anything appealing about this extreme level of hardcore playstyle that plagued EQ in its heyday.
Bottom line -- it was way too hardcore. And this is coming from someone who has an active EQ sub. Nothing wrong with hardcore (to a point), but when I have to be at work in the morning, I dont have 4 hours time to retrieve my corpse from a raid gone bad that started at 8pm at night and fell apart at 11 pm..
It is this same level of hardcore that some of you applaud that led to EQ getting demolished by a game called wow that offered most of the fun but little of the hardcore risk...and no I dont play wow.
Some food for thought. Diablo 2 threw in the hardcore server as a last thought thinking who would play this hardcore server where you die once and you lose everything. The community was small but my god it was the most fun you could have. Being a lvl 40 was an accomplishment. If you hit lvl 40 people were like "DUDE NICE JOB". Population from HC to SC was like 1:100 but my god was it fun with limited coding. Just something to throw in there. Any MMO that comes out with a HC server, i'm down for it as long as they do allow for mechanisms to get your stuff back if you died. Also, D2 allwoed for HC server with instant heals and the ability to Save and Exit in a millisecond . But the PKers (me) and the one-hit bosses and the MSLE. Cryomatrix
D2 Hardcore isn't really all that hard. It might be hard to get your first character to level 80ish, but after that running the rest of your toon to level 80 would only takes twice as much time at most since you're being so careful. In softcore, I can run balls to the wall reckless speed and hit level 80 in roughly 2 hours maybe? With hardcore, I was a bit more careful so I would take me somewhere closer to 4 or 6 hours to hit 80. After level 80, hardcore or softcore in D2 really isn't all that much different. Hell, some of my softcore character never even got kill one which pretty much make them really not all that much different from the hardcore really.
For the most part, hardcore and softcore mode in D2 are virtually the same in every way except for maybe 2 exception. No one level 90+ really have the balls to enter a pk match and any 80+ character pretty much have the mandatory auto-exit bot.
Although I must admit the HC mode really appeal asshole in me. I remember having one of my sorceress a stash full of ears from character with level anywhere from level 80 to 90. One time I was lucky enough to trap a poor level 93 amazon and have her health drop to zero faster than she could log out. Boy was she pissed and even send me death threat. So really, the biggest difference between HC for me really was my capacity to really get under some people skin.
So once again it really come down to people preference and the way the person play the game. You want harsh punishment in your game? Log that character out for an hour every time you die. Want to play a game in hardcore mode? Delete your character upon death. The boss is not hard enough? Fight him using weaker gear. You want harsher punishment than what already presented? Be creative and invent what ever limitation you want to impose on your character to make it all the more fun for you. I remember playing D2 in ways that it wasn't really intended and having a blast. I have a melee only Sorceress and a range only Barbarian. The game most definitely didn't tell me I have to play it that way, but that was the limitation I imposed on myself so I can get the satisfaction of beating the game on a higher difficulty.
I really don't get why so many people complain about how this game is too easy, the punishment is not harsh enough, or there is no hardcore mode. Everything you want you can do it yourself with very little effort. Go try it, in any game you want. I promise you that no one going to stop you from imposing those kind of limitation to yourself. Remember people, this is a game, you can play it ANYWAY YOU WANT. This led me to believed that the only reason why people want all of this in their game is just so they can tell the world, "Look at me! Look what I can do you can't!" So then, the biggest problem with today games is the poor poor elitist are pissed off cause they aren't so special anymore.
Originally posted by Yamoth Originally posted by Cryomatrix Some food for thought. Diablo 2 threw in the hardcore server as a last thought thinking who would play this hardcore server where you die once and you lose everything. The community was small but my god it was the most fun you could have. Being a lvl 40 was an accomplishment. If you hit lvl 40 people were like "DUDE NICE JOB". Population from HC to SC was like 1:100 but my god was it fun with limited coding. Just something to throw in there. Any MMO that comes out with a HC server, i'm down for it as long as they do allow for mechanisms to get your stuff back if you died. Also, D2 allwoed for HC server with instant heals and the ability to Save and Exit in a millisecond . But the PKers (me) and the one-hit bosses and the MSLE. Cryomatrix
D2 Hardcore isn't really all that hard. It might be hard to get your first character to level 80ish, but after that running the rest of your toon to level 80 would only takes twice as much time at most since you're being so careful. In softcore, I can run balls to the wall reckless speed and hit level 80 in roughly 2 hours maybe? With hardcore, I was a bit more careful so I would take me somewhere closer to 4 or 6 hours to hit 80. After level 80, hardcore or softcore in D2 really isn't all that much different. Hell, some of my softcore character never even got kill one which pretty much make them really not all that much different from the hardcore really.
For the most part, hardcore and softcore mode in D2 are virtually the same in every way except for maybe 2 exception. No one level 90+ really have the balls to enter a pk match and any 80+ character pretty much have the mandatory auto-exit bot.
Although I must admit the HC mode really appeal asshole in me. I remember having one of my sorceress a stash full of ears from character with level anywhere from level 80 to 90. One time I was lucky enough to trap a poor level 93 amazon and have her health drop to zero faster than she could log out. Boy was she pissed and even send me death threat. So really, the biggest difference between HC for me really was my capacity to really get under some people skin.
So once again it really come down to people preference and the way the person play the game. You want harsh punishment in your game? Log that character out for an hour every time you die. Want to play a game in hardcore mode? Delete your character upon death. The boss is not hard enough? Fight him using weaker gear. You want harsher punishment than what already presented? Be creative and invent what ever limitation you want to impose on your character to make it all the more fun for you. I remember playing D2 in ways that it wasn't really intended and having a blast. I have a melee only Sorceress and a range only Barbarian. The game most definitely didn't tell me I have to play it that way, but that was the limitation I imposed on myself so I can get the satisfaction of beating the game on a higher difficulty.
I really don't get why so many people complain about how this game is too easy, the punishment is not harsh enough, or there is no hardcore mode. Everything you want you can do it yourself with very little effort. Go try it, in any game you want. I promise you that no one going to stop you from imposing those kind of limitation to yourself. Remember people, this is a game, you can play it ANYWAY YOU WANT. This led me to believed that the only reason why people want all of this in their game is just so they can tell the world, "Look at me! Look what I can do you can't!" So then, the biggest problem with today games is the poor poor elitist are pissed off cause they aren't so special anymore.
The HC time period i was talking about was before LOD. Where it was very easy to die in classic. D2 wasn't really that hard, but it was sure exhilarating HC classic diablo much different than HC LOD diablo. I did play both and it was easier in LOd. In the classic if you had a 110 damage one-handed sword, you were considered godly. In Lod if you weren't close to 350 one hand you sucked. So big difference, game was much harder in classic diablo than in lod.
Cryomatrix
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
My question is why does gamer want all this harsh punishment in the game when the individual are very capable of imposing it upon themselves?
MMORPGs are social games. People want to play with people who think the same way they do. It's no fun playing an MMO where people think you are a weird freak because you delete you gear after every death. On the other hand if everyone has to experience the same harsh conditions, grinds and penalties then those who are left playing the game are of the same mindset and you do not feel like a freak.
Comments
VP oooh VP... good idea? maybe, maybe not.. imo good idea gone horribly wrong ..will it ever be redone? No...way to many flaws
i always did the rez out of VP..leaving a corpse outside of VP an having someone rez you . in my case my RL friend would rez me..most the time not needed but if having to leave before the raid was over or somethin it came in handy ..
never heard of anyone losing a corpse in VP..pretty much anyone with a VP key had back up to get a corpse..im sure there are a few that have , as someone else said had a nerd rage an said screw it ive had more trouble getting corpses out of sebilis than VP
worse thing about a raid wipe in VP for me was when we would have the ass at 5-10% an gettin killed...waitin on rez from pocket cleric/necro...rebuffing took 100x longer than ever gettin to the freakin raid guys .
here one for the old VP raiders
/shout. WHY THE F**K AM I N THE KITTEN BOX!?! I DIDNT TRAIN ANYONE!
Am I really that bad in writing sarcastic comments? My last sentence could have used a couple more qualifiers but I thought it was pretty obvious attempt to mock the OP and his supporters.
Well stated. WoW's new dungeon finder is a step in the right direction in terms of allowing more people to experience the higher level instance content. Most people may never raid, but if they are even a little patient and consistent they can gear up their characters to a MUCH greater extent than they could before. Raiders will be raiders... Different things for different people.
I'd have to agree wth you there. Those types of features tend to get more and more watered down as the game goes from alpha to launch and even past launch. It's too bad, really.
LOTRO is a really good example. If I remember right, in beta your radar was disabled in the Old Forest. People cmplained, so they scratched the idea. Even then, it was still a some what confusing place, very easy to get lost. From what I've heard, they eventually toned that down and made it easier to navigate. That's too bad.
Sure, for some players this makes things more convenient and less frustrating. For the rest of us, it turns the game into a complete and utter bore where nothing unexpected ever happens.
Honestly, I don't see why there's an issue in the first place. You can have zones like the Old Forest that are confusing, difficult, challenging, and risky. As long as the zone isn't a requirement, what's the problem? You don't want to be inconvenienced and thrown off the pace of your quest train, then don't go there.
But no, it can't work that way. People buy an MMO and think they're entitled to frolic, have a picnic, and fumble their way through every bit of the game. If they can't, bitching ensues. So, what we end up with is bland zone after bland, predictable zone.
Except people that attempted it had backup gear for their backup gear for their backup gear.. So to the people that tried it it wasnt a big risk.
I'd have to agree wth you there. Those types of features tend to get more and more watered down as the game goes from alpha to launch and even past launch. It's too bad, really.
LOTRO is a really good example. If I remember right, in beta your radar was disabled in the Old Forest. People cmplained, so they scratched the idea. Even then, it was still a some what confusing place, very easy to get lost. From what I've heard, they eventually toned that down and made it easier to navigate. That's too bad.
Sure, for some players this makes things more convenient and less frustrating. For the rest of us, it turns the game into a complete and utter bore where nothing unexpected ever happens.
Honestly, I don't see why there's an issue in the first place. You can have zones like the Old Forest that are confusing, difficult, challenging, and risky. As long as the zone isn't a requirement, what's the problem? You don't want to be inconvenienced and thrown off the pace of your quest train, then don't go there.
But no, it can't work that way. People buy an MMO and think they're entitled to frolic, have a picnic, and fumble their way through every bit of the game. If they can't, bitching ensues. So, what we end up with is bland zone after bland, predictable zone.
Now this is a good example of Risk vs Reward system that I can agree with. The old Old Forest annoyed the hell out of me, and I remember spending hours navigating the maze trying to find all the flowers and completing all the quest. Yet I love it cause it is a giant maze with deathtrap all over the place and couple steps in the wrong direction and you'll find yourself running for your life as wolves, bats, and giant killer tree chasing after you hunger for your blood. I remember cursing as myself for being a bonehead and return to the same stupid stump 5 times in 10 minute as I attempt to find my way out. With possible danger at every corner and no map to guide me, I found my heart racing as I tried to navigate this place determined to complete all my quest. I still remember relief and how proud I felt once I finally completing all my quest and emerged victoriously (with about 10 death in all).
The only thing that come to my head once I die, taking an xp hit, and deleveled was "great... I die... Now I have to spend the next hour grinding on some stupid mob just so I get back to doing what I did before". The feeling I felt from that death was not a disappointment of failing. All I got from that death was the dreaded boring future I have to face doing the same shit I did before just so I can get my character back to the stage where I was having fun improving up and enjoying the new content.
I have fun when I gain some loot. I have fun when I explore the new land. I have fun when I defeat a difficult boss that my guild been wiping on for the past 30 tries. I DO NOT HAVE FUN WHEN I HAVE TO REGRIND ON SOME OLD SHIT I DID BEFORE TO MAKE THE XP LOST I GOT WHEN I DIE 10 TIME ON SOME RAID BOSS.
Of all the post made on this top so far, this one is by far use just about the worst example for just about everything so I'll take some extra time and dissect this.
To the guy saying harsh death penalties dont make the encounter harder, sure, they dont. But what they do accomplish is creating significant risk if you overstep what you are capable of. The RISK is what needs to be put back in these games. If WoW made it so you lost the same amount of xp as well as having to get your corpse back people would not use death as a quick way to travel. Nor would they just run through zones of level 80 mobs chasing behind them because they know there is no risk even if you do die. Its pointless. Its sort of like playing bumper bowling, sure its fun, but real bowling has consequences if you bowl like an idiot, unlike bumper bowling where no matter what you hit the pins.
Having harsh death punishment and not is not similar to bowling with or without a rail. If you want to use the bowling analogy, having harsh punishment for your game would be something similar to you having to pay for every fame you bowl while use WoW just pay for the unlimited frame and bowl as many time as we like for the same price. At the end of the day, both party bowl just as much as the other person. The only difference is that the harsh punishment player got stuck paying 10 or 20 times more like an idiot.
Too many games these days dont have the nail biting risk factor that made your heart jump out of your chest during certain encounters. When the odds are stacked against you, knowing full well the penalty for death, it made you fight harder. It may not have made the actual encounter harder, but it totally changes the game play dynamics in a positive way. When death is feared you fight harder, more carefully, and learn to work as a team to be more efficient.
I dont understand why people wouldn't want risk in a MMO. Whats the point of trying harder encounters if dying doesnt matter? Anyone can fight something thirty times and finally win.
While this might make the group perform a little better, what this will most definitely do it getting the poor bastard who make that one single mistake that gotten everyone kill to get flamed to kingdom come and possibly be replaced by someone else. If anything, having that much pressure to perform a task knowing the kind of risk involve could very well have a negative effect on the player. Having too much at stake could create too much tension for the player and in turn making that person more prone to making mistake.
Furthermore, having such harsh punishment would only take the focus away from trying to defeat the boss itself and more so on how can we get ourselves so gears and minimize our risk of dying by only taking the absolute best people that we all. This would then lead to guild who would want to progress to become more and more exclusive thus excluding more and more people who might became a very good player later on if someone would give them a chance and show them the rope.
I think it mostly has to do with todays generation of teens and young adults. I remember reading a study where kids these days getting out of college are completely overwhelmed with the real world. Its tough, and they never experienced challenges in their life. They just float on by with mommy and daddy paving the way. Then when the parents arent there any more, they hit a brick wall and whine until somebody takes them under their wing and does everything for them.
Remember the saying, "In my day, we used to walk twelve miles to school, uphill, in the snow every day."? Well, now its more like, "We got a ride to school every day, and the teacher gave us all good grades so she didnt hurt our feelings.". I say screw the feelings and bring back punishment. Something that pushes people to work harder and actually give a damn.
Of all the analogy that you used, this is by far the dumbest one yet... Get this into your head that people you don't want harsh punishment don't expect everything to be handed to them in a silver platter. We want to go to the same school that you go to, having the same teacher, and taking the same course that you are taking. If we fail at math, what we want to do is take math over and over again till we are smart enough to pass it. What we DON'T want is having to repeat the entire grade just because we failed at math.
Look at the epics in WoW. Are they epic? Hardly. Everybody has full epics. The people these days whine and cry when a game is "unfair", and someone has something they want but cant have. It makes me feel like im teaching in a daycare again with a bunch of literal babies. Welfare epics. Sad.
Since you want to use analogy so much, let me give you an analogy of my own. Having welfare epic compare to raid epic is like a guy graduating from high school and a guy graduating from college both get a manager position. The big difference there is that the high school graduate is the manager of Burger King while the college graduate will be the manage of a major corporation. Sure, both of those people are manager technically and might have some similar role. However, the earning between the two manager will most definitely wont be the same. You people bitching about welfare epic is similar to the corporate manage bitching about sharing the same title as the Burger King manager. It is not the same so get over it!
What I do not understand is that you guys keep talking about time this and time that.
MMORPGs = TIME SINKS. ALL OF THEM PERIOD. The whole point of an MMORPG is to get the player to play endlessly so that they keep paying the monthly fee.
Death Penatlies do make fights harder because players know that if they lose they lose time, they lose time that they will have to make up. Without the Death Penatlies people just throw themselfs at the encounter over and over and over again till they win, that is not how it should be. You should have to learn how to win the battle and if you do not learn quickly you should have to "pay" something and since we are playing MMORPGs, time is the logical thing to have to pay.
I do not understand the instant gradification crowd, I just do not understand it at all. Games are here for fun but I do not have fun unless I feel like I earned my victory and I cannot feel like I earned it if I risk nothing in trying to win the event/encounter/fight. That is my opinion and I know others do not share it but can you please explain why getting something with no risk or effort is rewarding?
Even older console games had Death penatlies that took time away from the player as the penatly. Look at super mario bro's, if you died you had to restart the whole level, that was the death penatly, making the player start the level over again.
You are treating instant gratification with encounter mechanics as if they are one in the same thing, which they are not.
Lets take the original dragons in everquest as an example. Specifically Vox.
When a raid wipes, there was the normal XP loss and time to rebuff, regroup, etc. Now lets pretend instead of 10% experience loss there wasn 50% experience loss.
Did the actual mechanics of the fight change? Did it become harder to kill her? Some new abilities come to life? If your group is consistantly killing her, did Lady Vox somehow become unkillable when the penalty for failure was increased?
No. It just became more time consuming. The fight didn't get longer or harder, just the time penalty BETWEEN actually playing the game got larger.
Harsh death penalties don't make the actual skill, abilities or knowledge of a fight any harder. Harsh death penalties only mean more down time. That is it.
Some people enjoy the risk associated with large death penalties, but that doesn't make the game any harder or require any more skill. It doesn't make other crave instant gratification for not enjoying extreme penalties.
Believe it or not some people enjoy playing and not being forced with excessive time sinks in between playing the game.
Exactly! RISK or TIME recouping is NOT difficulty. The fight is the same. The mechanics are the same. Hard Modes vs normal modes in dungeons make the game harder because the mechanics of the fight change. Having to grind for X number of hours to make up the EXP you lost does NOT make the encounter any harder. Only more tedious.
No your right it does not make the fight harder. It does make the players better. It makes the players learn faster, makes them listen to the leaders, it makes the whole event better to have a penatly that causes you to lose something valuable. (time is very valuable)
The fight does not get harder but the overall feel of the event has more of an edge if you risk losing something important which we can all agree on is time. Risk is what changes not the fight, the Risk is increased with a tough penatly. The fight stays the same, it does not get harder but to the players the event is "harder" because if they lose they lose something important to them vs the same event with no loss of anything.
This goes for all events not just raid events, if the risk to lose something is great, it makes the player better overall, makes them learn the ins and outs of their character. We can see this in the lack of PuGs now a days vs back in the old days. Today players do not have to learn their class nor are they punished if they do not learn their class. Every used pick up groups in older games because the bad player was rare and most players new one with in a few minutes of grouping.
If you think that MMORPGs are Tedious because of timesinks then you are playing the wrong kind of games, the whole point of MMORPGs is to get the player in a timesink. PERIOD. The longer the player spends playing the game, the more money you gain from said player.
Look at games today, 1 to 3 months max for most games before players get bored and move on to another game. That is a ton less money that the company could have made if they would have put risk into their games.
Look at Football. You have the NFL and the Women's lingerie league. Both games are still football. Football is football it does not get harder but with the NFL add the risk of big men and full contact. Now the NFL is harder then the other league. Football the game (the fight/event) is still football but now you added the risk to it which made it harder.
mm i dont know how it was back then but im began to play eq1 this week and aside from the lost time for understanding graphic setting and making sure all the / command for graphic were active i love this game
true the handholding is gone compared to wow ,i played wow 5 years and this everquest (1) is better and the fact they polished the graphic is the icing on the cake
hell i was goofing around in freeport today it was knight but the lamp eq furnish was not realistic at all.
like halgen light out of a candle get real lol i put that in inventory instead thinking it would boot the light i wanted to see the look and feel of freeport without the halogen light on my side.after some help i finally had not light .men with the new lighting effect and the night outch that city is one scary lloking city ,almost see nothing and just after you port out of the city theres so black wolf never saw them i was being killed lol by a couple of them but i couldnt see them a bit later i saw their name flash by i zoomed out my cam out of first person view no choice didnt see fuck all.men i love the mood of eq1 and the feel of it
i saw the ord outside freeport men skin so real its insane i was like men this is what orc skin look like!
baught underfoot its worth its asking price ,i saw the older graphic in some old part like the giant city start or the gnome
and beurk they are dated but those that have been worked on are trully nice .men i was wondering about this since i kept earing
that soe was redoing graphic of eq1 but i kept seeing stream or video of eq1 so bad it looked like they were form 1999.lol
on a side note grats to eq2 team for their new lunch video they fianlly put the proper quality setting on their screen and graphic card
poster 59 !if any country or mmo did that you know what everybody would say!
STOP BEING LIKE CHINA!lol
its that silly china isnt worst then anywhere else if you stay between the two line but like all country they got corrution issue
like every country they got mafia ,hooker the whole 9 yard.
but on a scale only india can match ,10% criminal in china means 250 million criminal
imagine 250 milion criminal almost the whole population of usa
do you think china can just slap the hand of the criminal and then say ok poor boy now you behave
hell no china has to be harsh enough to scare people into line
its the same thing for video game ,its too easy on various front.vanilla wow was a proper mmo
but todays wow is just an mo!sad but true .so i decided to go buy an old classic the newest expension (underfoot and have fun there instead!
A rush and feeling of victory from a computer game? No.
I don't take them that seriously. I raid from time to time but I mostly raid to socialize with the guildies. Some of my guildies are very poor players, but I don't mind.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
for me ,its what make the game fun!when weverybody knows the fight by heart its boring
its better when a few knows shit ,it keeps everybody sharp and make a boring scripted fight become something much more
i dont really mind about loosing or winning ,its a game .it gets frustratingly a bad game when someone has to farm and win at all cost.yes i like to win but no instead of having fun and noob bring the unscriptedness that game often need.
i think blizzard new system for grouping is right on the money ,you go in a dungeon win or loose everybody has a chance to get something.
it makes hard dungeon fun to do since most of the time the drop are about the = of what you lost .
The reason VP worked is because there weren't alot of games out there, and WoW didn't exist. At the time (2000), you had UO and Everquest, Ahseron's Call and Anarchy Online. Lineage came out a little later and was much bigger in Asia than the US. They could do stuff with Everquest because the players didn't have alot of options to choose from.
EQ was THE big game at the time, and the overall MMO playing population was small. 'back in the day', most of the players were young adult, 'no lifers' that were either in school (lots of free time) or working part-time jobs living in their parents 'basement'. The internet was still fairly young and didn't have the market into the younger (13-18) or older (40+) crowd that it does now. It wasn't inconcievable that EQ players could and would put in 8-10-12 hours in a sitting for a single raid to kill ONE BOSS. They had free time and the money to spend on the game, and they were all concentrated in a single place (EQ).
Now... too many games to choose from so the pool of 'talent' that could pull off EQ1 style raiding isn't concentrated in one place. And noone wants risk large investments to develop 'hard' or 'risky' games when there is already a 'formula' for making a high population/subsciber game (WoW). Can and will it be done? Maybe, but the company would take the risk of develop something like this would be low budget (indie), but the resouces to put together compelling raiding environments and mechanics require a bigger budget.
Tried EQ1 at launch, never could get into it. Tried again last year, same problem. Different games for different people. But I did like Asherons Call(one) back in the day. But I'd not want to go back to its dated graphics and harsh death penalties. As for the other, Tyrants through out human history have made the same claim that "the peasants need a *strong* hand to maintain order". Its always been simply an excuse for their brutality, lust for power and corruption.
Except people that attempted it had backup gear for their backup gear for their backup gear.. So to the people that tried it it wasnt a big risk.
And it would be a CHORE with no benefits to maintain back-up gear. It is much more straightforward and more fun just to do away with the penalty.
See how well it works in wow.
Given the current state of health care I have to say no.......don't do it. Your health care provider will bail on you. Just don't do it.
It's better to lurk in forums and be thought a fool...than to endlessly "Quote" and remove all doubts.
I agree with you. I keep looking for this game too. They are just too easy, and I get bored with them. They just do not make games for us. I miss the help you got from your fellow players, you had in the early eq days as well.
http://s36.photobucket.com/user/mhoward48/media/OnwYv97.jpg.html
I agree in principle with her middle points.....the ending and beginning....hard to extapolate....I need clarification please.
It's better to lurk in forums and be thought a fool...than to endlessly "Quote" and remove all doubts.
So what I am getting from this thread is that a small number of bad players who think chores are challenging are getting nostalgic and the decent players remember it had a number of ways around the barriers and was simply grindy and had long respawns.
Item loss = keep spares? Who woulda thunk it. Mighty challenging to think ahead and grind out a bunch more pieces. Yep I am already shaking in my boots. Corpse runs in a game where your corpse lasted weeks. Gimme a break I have played games where your stuff was gone in a couple hours and I kept spares just for that reason. Heck most MUDs only let you keep ANY item on a limited basis either only let you keep 6 or so or forced you to stored your stuff and pay for the priviledge.
EQ was light weight and none of this stuff is a challenge. Only bad players think this stuff is challenging.
ok got out of the cave!mhe!where is everybody !the crowd was in the cave basicly(grin)once out of there
outch not a soul eccept npc for 1000 of miles
this is the biggest issue with game down the xfire list say after the 50 spot overall .no mather the hope etc
after the 50 spot on xfire,im sorry but it will be barren,and if we are honest .playing a mmo solo mode isnt my kind of fun
dont get me wrong i love eq1 or eq2 but men i dont dig soloing espacially when it is very clear this game was meant to be played in group lol.
Some food for thought.
Diablo 2 threw in the hardcore server as a last thought thinking who would play this hardcore server where you die once and you lose everything. The community was small but my god it was the most fun you could have. Being a lvl 40 was an accomplishment. If you hit lvl 40 people were like "DUDE NICE JOB".
Population from HC to SC was like 1:100 but my god was it fun with limited coding.
Just something to throw in there. Any MMO that comes out with a HC server, i'm down for it as long as they do allow for mechanisms to get your stuff back if you died.
Also, D2 allwoed for HC server with instant heals and the ability to Save and Exit in a millisecond
. But the PKers (me) and the one-hit bosses and the MSLE.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
If I didnt have anything else to do, for whatever reason, besides play computer games, then I would be all over VP, and raids and dungeon crawls that could result in me dying after hours of adventuring and have to spend hours to get my gear back then I would be all over what original EQ tried to do back in the day. But, for those of us who have jobs, families, activities etc in the real world, there simply isnt anything appealing about this extreme level of hardcore playstyle that plagued EQ in its heyday.
Bottom line -- it was way too hardcore. And this is coming from someone who has an active EQ sub. Nothing wrong with hardcore (to a point), but when I have to be at work in the morning, I dont have 4 hours time to retrieve my corpse from a raid gone bad that started at 8pm at night and fell apart at 11 pm..
It is this same level of hardcore that some of you applaud that led to EQ getting demolished by a game called wow that offered most of the fun but little of the hardcore risk...and no I dont play wow.
D2 Hardcore isn't really all that hard. It might be hard to get your first character to level 80ish, but after that running the rest of your toon to level 80 would only takes twice as much time at most since you're being so careful. In softcore, I can run balls to the wall reckless speed and hit level 80 in roughly 2 hours maybe? With hardcore, I was a bit more careful so I would take me somewhere closer to 4 or 6 hours to hit 80. After level 80, hardcore or softcore in D2 really isn't all that much different. Hell, some of my softcore character never even got kill one which pretty much make them really not all that much different from the hardcore really.
For the most part, hardcore and softcore mode in D2 are virtually the same in every way except for maybe 2 exception. No one level 90+ really have the balls to enter a pk match and any 80+ character pretty much have the mandatory auto-exit bot.
Although I must admit the HC mode really appeal asshole in me. I remember having one of my sorceress a stash full of ears from character with level anywhere from level 80 to 90. One time I was lucky enough to trap a poor level 93 amazon and have her health drop to zero faster than she could log out. Boy was she pissed and even send me death threat. So really, the biggest difference between HC for me really was my capacity to really get under some people skin.
So once again it really come down to people preference and the way the person play the game. You want harsh punishment in your game? Log that character out for an hour every time you die. Want to play a game in hardcore mode? Delete your character upon death. The boss is not hard enough? Fight him using weaker gear. You want harsher punishment than what already presented? Be creative and invent what ever limitation you want to impose on your character to make it all the more fun for you. I remember playing D2 in ways that it wasn't really intended and having a blast. I have a melee only Sorceress and a range only Barbarian. The game most definitely didn't tell me I have to play it that way, but that was the limitation I imposed on myself so I can get the satisfaction of beating the game on a higher difficulty.
I really don't get why so many people complain about how this game is too easy, the punishment is not harsh enough, or there is no hardcore mode. Everything you want you can do it yourself with very little effort. Go try it, in any game you want. I promise you that no one going to stop you from imposing those kind of limitation to yourself. Remember people, this is a game, you can play it ANYWAY YOU WANT. This led me to believed that the only reason why people want all of this in their game is just so they can tell the world, "Look at me! Look what I can do you can't!" So then, the biggest problem with today games is the poor poor elitist are pissed off cause they aren't so special anymore.
D2 Hardcore isn't really all that hard. It might be hard to get your first character to level 80ish, but after that running the rest of your toon to level 80 would only takes twice as much time at most since you're being so careful. In softcore, I can run balls to the wall reckless speed and hit level 80 in roughly 2 hours maybe? With hardcore, I was a bit more careful so I would take me somewhere closer to 4 or 6 hours to hit 80. After level 80, hardcore or softcore in D2 really isn't all that much different. Hell, some of my softcore character never even got kill one which pretty much make them really not all that much different from the hardcore really.
For the most part, hardcore and softcore mode in D2 are virtually the same in every way except for maybe 2 exception. No one level 90+ really have the balls to enter a pk match and any 80+ character pretty much have the mandatory auto-exit bot.
Although I must admit the HC mode really appeal asshole in me. I remember having one of my sorceress a stash full of ears from character with level anywhere from level 80 to 90. One time I was lucky enough to trap a poor level 93 amazon and have her health drop to zero faster than she could log out. Boy was she pissed and even send me death threat. So really, the biggest difference between HC for me really was my capacity to really get under some people skin.
So once again it really come down to people preference and the way the person play the game. You want harsh punishment in your game? Log that character out for an hour every time you die. Want to play a game in hardcore mode? Delete your character upon death. The boss is not hard enough? Fight him using weaker gear. You want harsher punishment than what already presented? Be creative and invent what ever limitation you want to impose on your character to make it all the more fun for you. I remember playing D2 in ways that it wasn't really intended and having a blast. I have a melee only Sorceress and a range only Barbarian. The game most definitely didn't tell me I have to play it that way, but that was the limitation I imposed on myself so I can get the satisfaction of beating the game on a higher difficulty.
I really don't get why so many people complain about how this game is too easy, the punishment is not harsh enough, or there is no hardcore mode. Everything you want you can do it yourself with very little effort. Go try it, in any game you want. I promise you that no one going to stop you from imposing those kind of limitation to yourself. Remember people, this is a game, you can play it ANYWAY YOU WANT. This led me to believed that the only reason why people want all of this in their game is just so they can tell the world, "Look at me! Look what I can do you can't!" So then, the biggest problem with today games is the poor poor elitist are pissed off cause they aren't so special anymore.
The HC time period i was talking about was before LOD. Where it was very easy to die in classic. D2 wasn't really that hard, but it was sure exhilarating HC classic diablo much different than HC LOD diablo. I did play both and it was easier in LOd. In the classic if you had a 110 damage one-handed sword, you were considered godly. In Lod if you weren't close to 350 one hand you sucked. So big difference, game was much harder in classic diablo than in lod.
Cryomatrix
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
My question is why does gamer want all this harsh punishment in the game when the individual are very capable of imposing it upon themselves?
MMORPGs are social games. People want to play with people who think the same way they do. It's no fun playing an MMO where people think you are a weird freak because you delete you gear after every death. On the other hand if everyone has to experience the same harsh conditions, grinds and penalties then those who are left playing the game are of the same mindset and you do not feel like a freak.