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Bethesda's Elder Scrolls MMO wont work IMO.
Rockgod99
Member Posts: 4,640
I'm a massive TES fan and the rumor going around is that Bethesda is creating a TES mmo.
At first I was very excited until I thought about other players in the same world as me.
If you haven't playing the tes games they basically let you roam around and do whatever you want.
From complete quests, raid dungeons, join guilds, makes potions and a whole mess of random stuff.
Now this is all fine and dandy until you realize that all of that stuff is pretty awesome because you don't have five thousand other players in the way messing up your experience.
Not only will these other players be a complete buzz kill, They also won't know how to act.
Tes is a sandbox game and we all know what happens in these games when you give these players too much freedom.
Last time I checked when I left a major city in Oblivion I didn't have 50+ other knights trying to kill me and loot me.
Think about it for a second. You go into a town with your stealthy character and try to rob a house. Oh you can't!! Someone already robbed that one, and the next, and the next......
I just don't see a game like this working because other people suck!
Disagree? Ever play UO? Eve? DF? AC or EQ pvp server? people will grief and generally be asshats just to ruin your day.
TES is a sandbox game what is bethesda going to do to stop these nimrods from ruining the game? Make it pve only?
These players will take advantage of every little exploit, grief 24/7 and generally get in the way.
Wanna explore that dungeon? To late player 10101012223245 already cleared it. Wanna go pick some flowers for alchemy? To bad that area is filled with a hundred freaking bots!
You guys try it if you want to but I would rather replay TES 1 through 4 single player that run into "Ionwzurmomz!!!" while exploring for an artifact or having to worry about a gank squad named peanut butter jelly time trying to ruin my day.
[Mod Edit]
Comments
Valid concerns. Which is why I despise full loot FFA pvp sandboxes. Although EVE at least has some rules (Concord) to mitigate griefing. And you never really loose everything you're carrying if you're killed (insurance). And you dont lose XP either (clones).
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
You have a sorely negative outlook.
If you make the land big enough, you don't have as much of a crowding issue.
Also, adding depth and complexity to the game is a great way to ward off immature players.
I think if done right any MMO can be successful. An open sandbox is very viable. However, you can't think they will take Oblivion and port it to be multiplayer because then you would be spot on right in how bad it could become.
I say give them a little credit and wait for some info before busting out the fire and brimstone.
I didn't want to be negative but my post turned into a rant on its own.
I love this IP and don't want a mmo installment to tarnish it.
Being completely honest I only see a mmo using the TES ip working if its strictly Pve focused around solo and Small scale Co-op play.
I'm sorry I just don't see it working with pvp, most certainly not ffa full loot pvp.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Don't worry as you can see from past sandbox mmos they tend to not be very high in population and I agree with you it would ruin a bit of the view of the game.
That's why I can't see how darkfall with heavy populations would be enjoyable if everytime you go outside a camp there would be 5 groups of 5-10 people waiting to gank others.
Or when you are in the sea were it would lose a bit of greatness if everywere you looked there were ships.
See that's the thing I don't see Bethesda settling for just a niche game.
Morrowind and Oblivion proved that Elder scrolls is more than just a niche.
From my experience in mmorpg if you give players too much freedom they act like fools and nearly destroy your subscriber base.
Could a Elder scrolls mmo work with even more restrictions than the single player game? Like heavy instancing, pve only areas and restricted rule set servers?
I don't know.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Where did you get the idea they are planning to make it ffa pvp? Not that I would be against it, but I never heard anything about that. Assuming negative conditions with no basis, then saying it wont work is a strawman.
edit: rereading your post it seems like you are not just against pvp but mmo's in general. Why are you here?
The problem is not the sandbox, nor is it FFA PvP...
The problem arises, when you don't have any rules at all, or if there's no places to be somewhat safe.
In that regard, look at EvE Online, which you pictured to be a grief-game. It's actually not, it has only some possibilities to grief others, but aslong as you stay in guarded areas, (Empire space) you can play the game without bothering about all the other people generally.
So the question is, how you setup such a sandbox. Sandbox doesn't mean, that there's no rules. Sandbox just doesn't spoonfed you the content, but let's you try all the stuff yourself.
So it's not the people that suck, but it's the developers who don't get their games done right.
What's there to worry?
Their power will scale down or up to your level anyway right?
REALITY CHECK
I think full loot PvP can work.
They just need to have large city limits and guard patrols or "safe" zones/areas where lower-mid level can go and advance with relative safety.
Somewhat like EVE's security approach where many areas are safe but its not hard to get to unsafe.
Is the game going to be single, dual or multi factioned? A single faction would be boring IMO. I think 3 factions would be good. Or each race is a faction with faction standings with others. Using factions is a great way to limit PvP and griefing as it gives people common goals/enemies. And people with common enemies are less likely to grief thier own faction.
If balanced right, the restrictions can be limited but still have a free and open feel.
You don't need to severely limit players to control them. You just need to direct thier attention and thier actions. A sandbox with nothing worth while to do results in griefing. UO had a lot of it since it was easier to grief someone and often had more reward than going to certain dungeons.
Obviously if Bethesda is working on an Elder Scrolls MMO, they will not make the gameplay EXACTLY like it is in Oblivion. That kind of style doesn't work in a multi-player game. They would have to make changes in order to ensure that it does work on a much larger scale with many times more players.
I would not be surprised if they utilized instancing for dungeons and house interiors. I also would expect there to be some sort of PvP toggle or other conditions to make rampant FFA griefing impossible. The Elder Scrolls games are popular single-player RPGs... they are not games that griefers usually enjoy playing.
Don't really have problems in DF with griefers. Guess I shouldn't check out the new Elder Scrolls MMO. :[
thanks for ruining my day.
I agree that I don't think and TES mmo would be FFA pvp just because it's a sandbox. As expansive as the TES world is I wouldn't mind some instancing as far as minor dungeons or whatever. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bethesda try for a hybrid game.
Another thing I wouldn't put past them is a major change in story for the world to suit such a hybrid game. Political fallout from both Morrowind and Oblivian could cause different factions to rise or nations to clamor for the Imperial throne. I would love to play a citizen from Skyrim trying help my nation put someone on the throne or even a citizen of Morrowind help fight for independence from the Empire. Playing the TES games I always thought about stuff like that. Especially once I got into Oblivian between how beautiful Skyrim looked and then getting sucked into the little teasers about Argonian culture and the Black Marsh. But I'm a little weird and a P&P gamer too soooo... yeah.
___________~____________
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
I would honestly LOVE a multiplayer TES (1-4players), but NOT A MMO.
This kind of game design isn't good for a MMO, except if every building and donjon are instancied... and guards everywhere... It's not a game that can be made as a MMO and still being called an ElderScroll game...
EDIT: imo
The same can really be said about any game on the market. All it would take is Bethsoft to implement some rules about looting and pking. But when it comes to herbs and such that's a market wide issue, every game has bots farming up mats. And then there's games like Darkfall or Mortal Online that basically if you're a noob you're the mercy of whoever is around you. I'm excited about a TES MMO but at the same time I really want to know how Bethsoft is going to handle these issues. I know for some of us who can't wait there's a multiplayer mod for Oblivion. But back on topic. Every game is going to have it's griefers as well just because there are some players out there who get off on pking people who just want to play a game for the pve aspects, or they camp an area killing thing for the sake so others can't. And unfortunately if people complain about them all they will say is QQ more noob gtfo or deal with it. Personally players like these need to get banned because they are ruining the experience for everybody else.
I understand they are playing it their way to "have fun" but a company will look at the impact one player will have on others experience if they complain enough times. They would rather lose one sub by banning them than by losing a few because they're giving the impression the game is full of jerks when it may be but a handful of bad apples.
I used to have an opinion similar to yours.
After years of MMOing I can't play a game that doesn't have good pvp and FFA tends to be the most enjoyable.
I am playing DF atm and to say the game is full of griefers is just plain bullshit. There are plenty of people that will help you out in the game and more decent people then annoying ones. The chat can be filled with crap though.
Yes there are morons like in any other game. They may gank, grief, kill, and loot you. But it really isn't a big deal. You either go to another area or wait till they get bored an move on.
Plus, the loot decays and there are safes zones (guard towers near cities that zap ppl if you are not in a guild). So, it isn't the end of the world if if you loose some gear and if you get to annoyed you can just stay near a tower and run towards it for safety.
After a while you get to know who those idiots are and just avoid them. Further, they become the people you know you want to kill when you get better. That enjoyment of getting back at those idiots is something you just can't find in a single player game. The monsters aren't going to be that annoying or that challenging.
There are griefers in none pvp games as well. Atleast, you can kill these.
To me single players games are just devoid of fun (Madden offline franchise being the only exception). It is like living life without the highs and lows and with very little risk and less reward.
PvP games without anything to risk are just boring. There has to be a good rason to go after someone in a open world concept.
Anyway, that is why we live in a world with options.
Honestly... if you don't want other players to interfere with your gaming experience stay away from mmorpgs. Dunno why so many people come to mmorpg site and try changing massive world games (so few left actually
) into single player games with global chat (WoW + clones).
Customer Service is a MMO's biggest expense after launch.
There will never be a FFA PvP triple A title because customer service expenses would cut profits.
Salaries, payroll taxes, health plans etc
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
I'm a huge mmo fan but i'm not so clueless in thinking every IP would be good as a mmo.
Elder scrolls offers so much player freedom that I strongly believe it just wouldn't work unless its heavily restricted or a straight up pve/co-op experience.
OH and before anyone calls me a care bear, check my post history I play Eve and am a huge supporter to indy sandbox games including DF.
I just don't think that type of gameplay will work within TES.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I dont see Bethesda taking a very successful franchise like ES and making the changes necessary to create an MMO. Its uncharted territory as far as I know but I do not see it being beneficial to the franchise. I look for a fantasy game hopefully of the quality they are capable of but I doubt it will be an ES game as we know them to be.
Correct this is why we already have games like Darkfall and Mortal Online.
I don't think TES online would work with those rule sets and the players that go along with them.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I didn't want to be negative but my post turned into a rant on its own.
I love this IP and don't want a mmo installment to tarnish it.
Being completely honest I only see a mmo using the TES ip working if its strictly Pve focused around solo and Small scale Co-op play.
I'm sorry I just don't see it working with pvp, most certainly not ffa full loot pvp.
This is often a sentiment I don't understand "I love the IP and don't want to a mmo installment to tarnish it."? It's constantly said in the mmo community, "oh I don't want Cryptic to tarnish the STO legacy". Video game producers make video games to entertainyes but also to make money and does fear of tarnishing your IP in the eyes of some one player seem like a good enough reason to give up on doing what you do best?
So what do you suggest they do since even another TES console/offline game could "tarnish" the IP by not being a good game. It's starting to sound to me like the same thing I think of many MMORPG posters maybe it's time to get out of mmo's if they create this many problems for you because for me they are still just games and if they are fun I'm playing with or without the clowns who will try to ruin ones gameplay.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I thought it was ZeniMax that was making the TeS MMo but whatever.
I dont see the problem, why not having a Tes MMO since Bethesda will do the
"regular" SP Tes game anyway. Best of both worlds in my opinion even if one
of them suck. Its not my wallet.
I didn't want to be negative but my post turned into a rant on its own.
I love this IP and don't want a mmo installment to tarnish it.
Being completely honest I only see a mmo using the TES ip working if its strictly Pve focused around solo and Small scale Co-op play.
I'm sorry I just don't see it working with pvp, most certainly not ffa full loot pvp.
This is often a sentiment I don't understand "I love the IP and don't want to a mmo installment to tarnish it."? It's constantly said in the mmo community, "oh I don't want Cryptic to tarnish the STO legacy". Video game producers make video games to entertainyes but also to make money and does fear of tarnishing your IP in the eyes of some one player seem like a good enough reason to give up on doing what you do best?
So what do you suggest they do since even another TES console/offline game could "tarnish" the IP by not being a good game. It's starting to sound to me like the same thing I think of many MMORPG posters maybe it's time to get out of mmo's if they create this many problems for you because for me they are still just games and if they are fun I'm playing with or without the clowns who will try to ruin ones gameplay.
It's impossible for Bethesda to make a bad TES single player game.
Four games so far, a few expansions and a handful of DLC and all are damn near flawless.
An mmo however is uncharted territory and in today's mmo market where every game fails besides WOW (and Eve) I don't want to see them mess up the ip.
How they could deliver a game to this overly critical playerbase without messing the ip up.
In my opinion a true to the ip mmo would be strictly a pve game and that would cause it to flop according to this playerbase.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Something tells me that Bethesda would be intelligent enough to not just copy and paste their current game design into a multiplayer environment.
All of your concerns are of a game where they do just that.
If the developers that created the TEs single player Rpgs aren't making the TES MMO then i don't even care.
If this is true this thread doesn't matter and the mods can lock it.
Anyone have a link of who is actually developing it? If its some lame dream team of mmo devs i won't even bother following it.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP