To be "in control" of your toon does not have anything to do with what the OP perceives it to mean.Being in control means you are TRULY playing a ROLE PLAYING game,that means you set the standards by witch your role playing is done,i cannot think of any game that does this well and ONLY EQ2 has some actual good RPG elements. IF the game FORCES you into a one dimensional mode of chasing after every single quest for the sole purpose of leveling a number ,that is about a weak a game design as you could possibly make and is actually the furthest thing from being in control.This type of design puts the game in control of your player ,NOT the other way around. You got it wrong, as someone earluer pointed out. I am talking about the control of my toon, not RP. Think about it this way,WHY are you trying to gain a new level?There is ONLY one reason, to gain new spells and abilities,it is NOT so you can chase some new NPC around to get another quest.What do you put into your hotbar?Quest items/icons?NO you put combat icons buffs/enfeebs/abilities/spells this is why you play the game.A game should try it's best to let you play the game in a role playing mode that fits the character you have created.Do NOT blame the game if it does not cater to you,that is selfish, nobody is going to make a game for each individual,it is THEIR game,if you do not like any of the RPG elements then find a game that suits you. I would hardly say it is selfish when I expect game devlopers to cater my needs. It is like saying it is selfish to have sex just because of the satisfaction. If the gaming companies want my money, they better listen to me. If my playstyle ain't catered, well they will not have my money. Plain & simple. This has been what bothers me about players opinions on games,they are not really telling the truth,they are just conveying an image that JUSTIFIES why they play the game,but in reality the reasons are 99% superficial,weak re sons and actually 100% opposite of being in control of their player. So now you say that if they arent catering your playstyle, it bothers you...? But the rest of us, are selfish? Pretty stiff comments here...
Well 'tight control' is very subjective as well. For instance although I did think the controls in WoW were very good(played for about a year) I actually liked the controls in Lineage II better. Now I know point and click is a very debated topic and a lot of people hate it but to me at least there was no tighter control than clicking on a spot and having your toon move to that exact spot with only a single click of your mouse. I never ever felt I needed a third hand playing that game which is more than I can say for WoW(or any other WASD game for that matter). With one hand on the mouse and the other on the F keys i could do anything in that game with ease. I'll admit that coming from the original EQ the L2 control scheme took a little getting used to but once I did I loved it.
Well 'tight control' is very subjective as well. For instance although I did think the controls in WoW were very good(played for about a year) I actually liked the controls in Lineage II better. Now I know point and click is a very debated topic and a lot of people hate it but to me at least there was no tighter control than clicking on a spot and having your toon move to that exact spot with only a single click of your mouse. I never ever felt I needed a third hand playing that game which is more than I can say for WoW(or any other WASD game for that matter). With one hand on the mouse and the other on the F keys i could do anything in that game with ease. I'll admit that coming from the original EQ the L2 control scheme took a little getting used to but once I did I loved it.
Bren
You do know WOW has point&click as an option right? Remember most people playing are in Asia and they prefer that type of system. You didn't know this after playing for a year=)
I'm not sure if underrated, or under-talked about, would be better terminology. No matter.
I couldn't stand AION for 4 hours due to cast-animation lag (and that whole point-clicking, auto-facing biz). ROM rung truer with me, and it's a F2P (I don't endorse), due to this very reason.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
Excellent post because it takes balls to talk about WoW here. WoW has that "it" feeling. It is hard to describe. When your sword hits the other player or mob, the sound, animation and control all hit at the same time and you feel it. You can stop on a dime and make fluid motions without any delays. You feel like you are walking on a ground and not floating. I totally agree.
This is exactly what I said when I was playing LotRO, AoC and EQ2 last night and could not help but compare them to WoW. The feeling of your avatar being part of the world you are in is uncanny. The other games I feel like i've been photo shopped into them is the only way I can explain it. No other game that I know of has the control or feeling of being in the world as well as WoW. So far.
WoW has surprisingly little lag. Low system requirements, simple graphics.
I think WoW's lack of lag helps to control your character. You press a button for your instant spell and it happens instantly.
When I tried Warhammer, often times my toon would die of lag. Three oppenents would rush me and this was enough to cause a bunch of lag. I was essentially stunned for three seconds. Unfair.
I keep waiting for an mmo to introduce the type of control I had playing Street Fighter so many years ago. In SF, I could hit an adversary high, low, midsection.
Asheron's Call has high mid and low attacks, as well as distinct differences in attack types (blunt, piece, slash, fire,. cold, acid, etc). Asheron's Call even has a slider that allows players to adjust their attack speed - fast attacks for lower damage or slower attacks that do more damage. Archers have a slider for accuracy/speed. Run and jump are also skills that can be trained up to super turbo levels.
As for arcade-style fast action combat, Dragonica offers fast combat, combo moves, specials and the like.
The OP's sailing a boat vs racing a car comparison was interesting. I normally avoid playing the larger races because they seem to move slow and almost float. Smaller characters give the illusion of moving faster which in turn makes the character seem more responsive.
I like fast action combat, so tight controls are a big thing for me.If I'm gloating around or if I feel the character controls are sluggish that is a gamebreaker.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Well 'tight control' is very subjective as well. For instance although I did think the controls in WoW were very good(played for about a year) I actually liked the controls in Lineage II better. Now I know point and click is a very debated topic and a lot of people hate it but to me at least there was no tighter control than clicking on a spot and having your toon move to that exact spot with only a single click of your mouse. I never ever felt I needed a third hand playing that game which is more than I can say for WoW(or any other WASD game for that matter). With one hand on the mouse and the other on the F keys i could do anything in that game with ease. I'll admit that coming from the original EQ the L2 control scheme took a little getting used to but once I did I loved it.
Bren
You do know WOW has point&click as an option right? Remember most people playing are in Asia and they prefer that type of system. You didn't know this after playing for a year=)
Yes I do know that and played like that for a while but it became blatantly obvious that the game wasn't designed with that control interface in mind and it was just tacked on as an added feature. It works just about as good as the WASD option works in L2. If a game isn't designed around a particular control scheme trying to use the optional interface just adds frustration.
Wow has probably the best control of your characters of any game, the moving, running, walking,flying etc etc anything is smooth as hell, this is why other mmo's just fail they forget to add the level of detail blizzard adds into the games. Combat responsivness is amazing, moving, standing anything related to player controls and repsonivness in wow second to none. Slag blizzard of for some things, but never ever slag them of for the detail they put into the repsovnss of all thier games, this is why their games are played by millions. On the other had look at warhammer its player resposivness and controls are bloody piss poor.
You obviously don't play a lot of games, although I do agree that WoW is up there in terms of smoothness of player control.
Excellent post because it takes balls to talk about WoW here. WoW has that "it" feeling. It is hard to describe. When your sword hits the other player or mob, the sound, animation and control all hit at the same time and you feel it. You can stop on a dime and make fluid motions without any delays. You feel like you are walking on a ground and not floating. I totally agree.
This is exactly what I said when I was playing LotRO, AoC and EQ2 last night and could not help but compare them to WoW. The feeling of your avatar being part of the world you are in is uncanny. The other games I feel like i've been photo shopped into them is the only way I can explain it. No other game that I know of has the control or feeling of being in the world as well as WoW. So far.
WoW has good controls, but honestly, I'll take smooth, flowing animations over choppy, instant-reaction ones. Obviously, I'm in the minority, but while you do perform an action when you press a button in WoW, it usually screws up your animations. You go from swinging a weapon normally to attacking at twice the speed, or perhaps slower than normal, or even cutting one attack animation entirely to perform the next (looking at Rogues, mainly). LotRO, on the other hand, used to wait for the auto-attack animation to finish before allowing you to perform a skill. They did away with this in Siege of Mirkwood, so combat is much more responsive, but it's still smooth.
And no, I don't feel like I'm floating when I run in LotRO. I felt like I was floating in WoW when I was on my gryphon, though.
Well 'tight control' is very subjective as well. For instance although I did think the controls in WoW were very good(played for about a year) I actually liked the controls in Lineage II better. Now I know point and click is a very debated topic and a lot of people hate it but to me at least there was no tighter control than clicking on a spot and having your toon move to that exact spot with only a single click of your mouse. I never ever felt I needed a third hand playing that game which is more than I can say for WoW(or any other WASD game for that matter). With one hand on the mouse and the other on the F keys i could do anything in that game with ease. I'll admit that coming from the original EQ the L2 control scheme took a little getting used to but once I did I loved it.
Bren
You are not alone in this as I too think that point and click is the best way to impliment movement. After playing WoW for about a year I stumbled across Lineage 2 and once I got used to the point and click approach I found it difficult (and tiresome on long journey's) to return back to WASD controls. It just feels much beeter, click on the horizon sit back and your char will go there, click an NPC your char walks up and talks to NPC instead of "you are not close enough" popping up and as you say you don't feel like you need a third hand to fight.
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Well 'tight control' is very subjective as well. For instance although I did think the controls in WoW were very good(played for about a year) I actually liked the controls in Lineage II better. Now I know point and click is a very debated topic and a lot of people hate it but to me at least there was no tighter control than clicking on a spot and having your toon move to that exact spot with only a single click of your mouse. I never ever felt I needed a third hand playing that game which is more than I can say for WoW(or any other WASD game for that matter). With one hand on the mouse and the other on the F keys i could do anything in that game with ease. I'll admit that coming from the original EQ the L2 control scheme took a little getting used to but once I did I loved it.
Bren
You are not alone in this as I too think that point and click is the best way to impliment movement. After playing WoW for about a year I stumbled across Lineage 2 and once I got used to the point and click approach I found it difficult (and tiresome on long journey's) to return back to WASD controls. It just feels much beeter, click on the horizon sit back and your char will go there, click an NPC your char walks up and talks to NPC instead of "you are not close enough" po
Do you know about WoW's auto-run? I think it's the / on the keypad.
Wow has probably the best control of your characters of any game, the moving, running, walking,flying etc etc anything is smooth as hell, this is why other mmo's just fail they forget to add the level of detail blizzard adds into the games. Combat responsivness is amazing, moving, standing anything related to player controls and repsonivness in wow second to none. Slag blizzard of for some things, but never ever slag them of for the detail they put into the repsovnss of all thier games, this is why their games are played by millions. On the other had look at warhammer its player resposivness and controls are bloody piss poor.
You obviously don't play a lot of games, although I do agree that WoW is up there in terms of smoothness of player control.
Don't be a troll. If there was really enough games with superior controls to claim he "obviously" doesn't play a lot of games, you wouldn't have trouble naming at least a few -- which you didn't.
I've tried a ton of MMORPGs and have yet to find one that approaches WOW's responsiveness.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Wow has probably the best control of your characters of any game, the moving, running, walking,flying etc etc anything is smooth as hell, this is why other mmo's just fail they forget to add the level of detail blizzard adds into the games. Combat responsivness is amazing, moving, standing anything related to player controls and repsonivness in wow second to none. Slag blizzard of for some things, but never ever slag them of for the detail they put into the repsovnss of all thier games, this is why their games are played by millions. On the other had look at warhammer its player resposivness and controls are bloody piss poor.
You obviously don't play a lot of games, although I do agree that WoW is up there in terms of smoothness of player control.
Don't be a troll. If there was really enough games with superior controls to claim he "obviously" doesn't play a lot of games, you wouldn't have trouble naming at least a few -- which you didn't.
I've tried a ton of MMORPGs and have yet to find one that approaches WOW's responsiveness.
Compared to other games, MMOs suck in this regard across the board. For example: Some review said that Global Agenda had "sharp" FPS feel to it. That is just ridiculous. By FPS standards it is clunky, laggy and has no hitboxes.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
After posting a bit here recently, I have even managed to ignite flames when I have brought up how 'tight' the control of my toon is in one certain MMO. I will not debate that certain MMO, but I have started to think about this in a wider perspective though. Do the control of our avatars have bigger impact on our general feeling towards the MMO's we play than we maybe realizes? I have been an MMO nomad for a long time now, after quitting that certain MMO over a year ago. Since then I have tried only a few different MMO's, which is very unlike my earlier behavior during the beginning of the 2000's when I bought about every new release. What I end up disliking in every single one of them MMO's I try to substitute, is the lack of 'tight' control; the feeling of actually being in 'full' control of my avatar. In the worst end, some MMO's have given me the feeling more of sailing a boat, than driving a sports car as my favored MMO does. It is either casting time on spells that takes ages (and is utterly boring), or there is some sort of 'lag', or even a stupid jump where when you land, I completely stop. In some MMO's I have little or no ability to break my current castings too, which is frustrating. So, is this actually a field that is too neglected by the gaming developers, a field underrated how important it is to us gamers? I can only speak for myself here obviously, but I am now more 'aware' that this is actually/maybe that part that drives me back to my favored MMO time after time. . I can give you an example: Some years ago, I introduced a friend of mine to WoW, even though he begged me not to, cause he was sure that he would be addicted. (Shame on me, cause he did). After he got addicted to WoW, he became very reluctant to try out new/other MMO's. I finally managed to get him to try Anarchy Online. This was my very first MMO, and I still love it, so I thought I would introduce him to what I saw as the first modern MMO. Nostalgic feelings were kicking in.... Well. We started out on newbie island, both playing here at my home. (This AO session would prolly be too short if I did not have him by my side due to the complexity of the game). Newbie Island! I was actually truly amazed to see how much he struggled with his toon. His face was just some weird grim expressions while biting his teeth together when he tried to have control over his toon. He failed. Utterly. His toon was spinning, he could not even get into the sit/stand keys. Needless to say, this session was over in 1 hr. He went back to World of Warcraft. In many ways, I can not blame him. His first gaming skills comes from Counter Strike and other FPS like games. If you start with them, it is quite easy to get into the WoW way of controlling your toons. I do even myself find controlling my toons in Anarchy Online very hard from time to time. . I am personally quite surprised that there can be released real good games which fails to deliver on the control of toon part. If the feeling of 'toon-control' fails to deliver, I really have started to wonder if the whole game can be a fail. Just because of that little part. If we look upon cars, and take that as comparison, even though comparing cars to MMO's is wrong, I would say that no matter how much extra HP, acceries, color, tires & rim you pack on the car, in the end it is the feeling you get when you drive it. Wouldn't that be the same for MMO's? What matter in the end, is how you feel your toon works, how much you are in control of it, that matters? . Discuss.
Just learn to adept and you have np, at first i thought lineage2 movement sucks with point& click and without jump but after a while i got used to it and it became second nature to me.
Its up to you be willing to learn and accept not all games are same then there is no problem.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Excellent post because it takes balls to talk about WoW here. WoW has that "it" feeling. It is hard to describe. When your sword hits the other player or mob, the sound, animation and control all hit at the same time and you feel it. You can stop on a dime and make fluid motions without any delays. You feel like you are walking on a ground and not floating. I totally agree.
This is exactly what I said when I was playing LotRO, AoC and EQ2 last night and could not help but compare them to WoW. The feeling of your avatar being part of the world you are in is uncanny. The other games I feel like i've been photo shopped into them is the only way I can explain it. No other game that I know of has the control or feeling of being in the world as well as WoW. So far.
EQ2's combat feels like a very artificial, unnatural simulation of MMO combat.
All developers use basically the same ingredients to build their gameplay and combat engine. What they do with those ingredients during development produces wildly varying results.
It's like the scene in Weird Science where the guys feed a bunch of info into a computer and get the ideal woman.
Excellent post because it takes balls to talk about WoW here. WoW has that "it" feeling. It is hard to describe. When your sword hits the other player or mob, the sound, animation and control all hit at the same time and you feel it. You can stop on a dime and make fluid motions without any delays. You feel like you are walking on a ground and not floating. I totally agree.
This is exactly what I said when I was playing LotRO, AoC and EQ2 last night and could not help but compare them to WoW. The feeling of your avatar being part of the world you are in is uncanny. The other games I feel like i've been photo shopped into them is the only way I can explain it. No other game that I know of has the control or feeling of being in the world as well as WoW. So far.
EQ2's combat feels like a very artificial, unnatural simulation of MMO combat.
All developers use basically the same ingredients to build their gameplay and combat engine. What they do with those ingredients during development produces wildly varying results.
It's like the scene in Weird Science where the guys feed a bunch of info into a computer and get the ideal woman.
Blizzard did it and got this:
SOE did it and got this:
Am I the only one here, who finds the Borg more attractive, than some overblown 80's chick?
Just sayin'.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Excellent post because it takes balls to talk about WoW here. WoW has that "it" feeling. It is hard to describe. When your sword hits the other player or mob, the sound, animation and control all hit at the same time and you feel it. You can stop on a dime and make fluid motions without any delays. You feel like you are walking on a ground and not floating. I totally agree.
This is exactly what I said when I was playing LotRO, AoC and EQ2 last night and could not help but compare them to WoW. The feeling of your avatar being part of the world you are in is uncanny. The other games I feel like i've been photo shopped into them is the only way I can explain it. No other game that I know of has the control or feeling of being in the world as well as WoW. So far.
EQ2's combat feels like a very artificial, unnatural simulation of MMO combat.
All developers use basically the same ingredients to build their gameplay and combat engine. What they do with those ingredients during development produces wildly varying results.
It's like the scene in Weird Science where the guys feed a bunch of info into a computer and get the ideal woman.
Blizzard did it and got this:
SOE did it and got this:
Am I the only one here, who finds the Borg more attractive, than some overblown 80's chick?
Just sayin'.
Thats Kelly Lebrock!! How dare you smear Weird Science=) Kids now a days, hehe.
Excellent post because it takes balls to talk about WoW here. WoW has that "it" feeling. It is hard to describe. When your sword hits the other player or mob, the sound, animation and control all hit at the same time and you feel it. You can stop on a dime and make fluid motions without any delays. You feel like you are walking on a ground and not floating. I totally agree.
This is exactly what I said when I was playing LotRO, AoC and EQ2 last night and could not help but compare them to WoW. The feeling of your avatar being part of the world you are in is uncanny. The other games I feel like i've been photo shopped into them is the only way I can explain it. No other game that I know of has the control or feeling of being in the world as well as WoW. So far.
EQ2's combat feels like a very artificial, unnatural simulation of MMO combat.
All developers use basically the same ingredients to build their gameplay and combat engine. What they do with those ingredients during development produces wildly varying results.
It's like the scene in Weird Science where the guys feed a bunch of info into a computer and get the ideal woman.
Blizzard did it and got this:
SOE did it and got this:
Am I the only one here, who finds the Borg more attractive, than some overblown 80's chick?
Just sayin'.
Are you insane? the chick from weird science was sick looking back in the day.
Excellent post because it takes balls to talk about WoW here. WoW has that "it" feeling. It is hard to describe. When your sword hits the other player or mob, the sound, animation and control all hit at the same time and you feel it. You can stop on a dime and make fluid motions without any delays. You feel like you are walking on a ground and not floating. I totally agree.
This is exactly what I said when I was playing LotRO, AoC and EQ2 last night and could not help but compare them to WoW. The feeling of your avatar being part of the world you are in is uncanny. The other games I feel like i've been photo shopped into them is the only way I can explain it. No other game that I know of has the control or feeling of being in the world as well as WoW. So far.
EQ2's combat feels like a very artificial, unnatural simulation of MMO combat.
All developers use basically the same ingredients to build their gameplay and combat engine. What they do with those ingredients during development produces wildly varying results.
It's like the scene in Weird Science where the guys feed a bunch of info into a computer and get the ideal woman.
Blizzard did it and got this:
SOE did it and got this:
Am I the only one here, who finds the Borg more attractive, than some overblown 80's chick?
Just sayin'.
Thats Kelly Lebrock!! How dare you smear Weird Science=) Kids now a days, hehe.
I just agree with Conan on this subject. Women should have dignity and not just eye-candy. To each his own, though.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Wow has probably the best control of your characters of any game, the moving, running, walking,flying etc etc anything is smooth as hell, this is why other mmo's just fail they forget to add the level of detail blizzard adds into the games. Combat responsivness is amazing, moving, standing anything related to player controls and repsonivness in wow second to none. Slag blizzard of for some things, but never ever slag them of for the detail they put into the repsovnss of all thier games, this is why their games are played by millions. On the other had look at warhammer its player resposivness and controls are bloody piss poor.
You obviously don't play a lot of games, although I do agree that WoW is up there in terms of smoothness of player control.
Don't be a troll. If there was really enough games with superior controls to claim he "obviously" doesn't play a lot of games, you wouldn't have trouble naming at least a few -- which you didn't.
I've tried a ton of MMORPGs and have yet to find one that approaches WOW's responsiveness.
Compared to other games, MMOs suck in this regard across the board. For example: Some review said that Global Agenda had "sharp" FPS feel to it. That is just ridiculous. By FPS standards it is clunky, laggy and has no hitboxes.
Well hitboxes aren't needed for a good FPS game. TF2 doesn't have hitboxes (for the vast majority of weapons anyway) and it has very tight controls. My only critique of TF2's controls is that some weapons look like they're bullets with trajectories, when in fact they're hitscan.
But yeah, overall Global Agenda's controls aren't really that great. Ledge-grabbing makes things feel particularly laggy, and jetpacking is certainly laggier than any game in the Tribes series. You get the feeling of being rubber-banded a lot.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Well hitboxes aren't needed for a good FPS game. TF2 doesn't have hitboxes (for the vast majority of weapons anyway) and it has very tight controls. My only critique of TF2's controls is that some weapons look like they're bullets with trajectories, when in fact they're hitscan. But yeah, overall Global Agenda's controls aren't really that great. Ledge-grabbing makes things feel particularly laggy, and jetpacking is certainly laggier than any game in the Tribes series. You get the feeling of being rubber-banded a lot.
I have to say that anyone defending FPSs by citing TF2 needs to be reprimanded. That's just slack. TF2 is the most newbie friendly FPS out there, and the game mechanics are the reason.
For tight controls and realism, you absolutely need hitboxes. There's no exceptions. Getting hit in the head and getting hit in the arm are two completely different experiences and it definitely tightens everything up a bit. For this, I have to cite WWII Online. It's old, it has a huge learning curve, but it's realistic and it's got comfortable controls.
I also have to cite Gears of War, namely the second one. Not once did I ever have a problem with anything other than latency. The controls were tight, the movements were fluid, everything seemed to have a tinge of realism and the hitboxes did their jobs.
We don't need numbers floating around, but we do need hitboxes.
Comments
Am I the only one who thought Ryzom when first reading the title of the thread?
Check out the MUD I'm making!
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I think I see the problem, you call them "toons".
Call them chars, less facepalms all around.
Well 'tight control' is very subjective as well. For instance although I did think the controls in WoW were very good(played for about a year) I actually liked the controls in Lineage II better. Now I know point and click is a very debated topic and a lot of people hate it but to me at least there was no tighter control than clicking on a spot and having your toon move to that exact spot with only a single click of your mouse. I never ever felt I needed a third hand playing that game which is more than I can say for WoW(or any other WASD game for that matter). With one hand on the mouse and the other on the F keys i could do anything in that game with ease. I'll admit that coming from the original EQ the L2 control scheme took a little getting used to but once I did I loved it.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
If a game has clunky controls I wont play it, period.
You do know WOW has point&click as an option right? Remember most people playing are in Asia and they prefer that type of system. You didn't know this after playing for a year=)
I'm not sure if underrated, or under-talked about, would be better terminology. No matter.
I couldn't stand AION for 4 hours due to cast-animation lag (and that whole point-clicking, auto-facing biz). ROM rung truer with me, and it's a F2P (I don't endorse), due to this very reason.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
This is exactly what I said when I was playing LotRO, AoC and EQ2 last night and could not help but compare them to WoW. The feeling of your avatar being part of the world you are in is uncanny. The other games I feel like i've been photo shopped into them is the only way I can explain it. No other game that I know of has the control or feeling of being in the world as well as WoW. So far.
Lag is my pet peeve.
WoW has surprisingly little lag. Low system requirements, simple graphics.
I think WoW's lack of lag helps to control your character. You press a button for your instant spell and it happens instantly.
When I tried Warhammer, often times my toon would die of lag. Three oppenents would rush me and this was enough to cause a bunch of lag. I was essentially stunned for three seconds. Unfair.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Asheron's Call has high mid and low attacks, as well as distinct differences in attack types (blunt, piece, slash, fire,. cold, acid, etc). Asheron's Call even has a slider that allows players to adjust their attack speed - fast attacks for lower damage or slower attacks that do more damage. Archers have a slider for accuracy/speed. Run and jump are also skills that can be trained up to super turbo levels.
As for arcade-style fast action combat, Dragonica offers fast combat, combo moves, specials and the like.
The OP's sailing a boat vs racing a car comparison was interesting. I normally avoid playing the larger races because they seem to move slow and almost float. Smaller characters give the illusion of moving faster which in turn makes the character seem more responsive.
I like fast action combat, so tight controls are a big thing for me.If I'm gloating around or if I feel the character controls are sluggish that is a gamebreaker.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You do know WOW has point&click as an option right? Remember most people playing are in Asia and they prefer that type of system. You didn't know this after playing for a year=)
Yes I do know that and played like that for a while but it became blatantly obvious that the game wasn't designed with that control interface in mind and it was just tacked on as an added feature. It works just about as good as the WASD option works in L2. If a game isn't designed around a particular control scheme trying to use the optional interface just adds frustration.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
You obviously don't play a lot of games, although I do agree that WoW is up there in terms of smoothness of player control.
This is exactly what I said when I was playing LotRO, AoC and EQ2 last night and could not help but compare them to WoW. The feeling of your avatar being part of the world you are in is uncanny. The other games I feel like i've been photo shopped into them is the only way I can explain it. No other game that I know of has the control or feeling of being in the world as well as WoW. So far.
WoW has good controls, but honestly, I'll take smooth, flowing animations over choppy, instant-reaction ones. Obviously, I'm in the minority, but while you do perform an action when you press a button in WoW, it usually screws up your animations. You go from swinging a weapon normally to attacking at twice the speed, or perhaps slower than normal, or even cutting one attack animation entirely to perform the next (looking at Rogues, mainly). LotRO, on the other hand, used to wait for the auto-attack animation to finish before allowing you to perform a skill. They did away with this in Siege of Mirkwood, so combat is much more responsive, but it's still smooth.
And no, I don't feel like I'm floating when I run in LotRO. I felt like I was floating in WoW when I was on my gryphon, though.
You are not alone in this as I too think that point and click is the best way to impliment movement. After playing WoW for about a year I stumbled across Lineage 2 and once I got used to the point and click approach I found it difficult (and tiresome on long journey's) to return back to WASD controls. It just feels much beeter, click on the horizon sit back and your char will go there, click an NPC your char walks up and talks to NPC instead of "you are not close enough" popping up and as you say you don't feel like you need a third hand to fight.
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
You are not alone in this as I too think that point and click is the best way to impliment movement. After playing WoW for about a year I stumbled across Lineage 2 and once I got used to the point and click approach I found it difficult (and tiresome on long journey's) to return back to WASD controls. It just feels much beeter, click on the horizon sit back and your char will go there, click an NPC your char walks up and talks to NPC instead of "you are not close enough" po
Do you know about WoW's auto-run? I think it's the / on the keypad.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
You obviously don't play a lot of games, although I do agree that WoW is up there in terms of smoothness of player control.
Don't be a troll. If there was really enough games with superior controls to claim he "obviously" doesn't play a lot of games, you wouldn't have trouble naming at least a few -- which you didn't.
I've tried a ton of MMORPGs and have yet to find one that approaches WOW's responsiveness.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You obviously don't play a lot of games, although I do agree that WoW is up there in terms of smoothness of player control.
Don't be a troll. If there was really enough games with superior controls to claim he "obviously" doesn't play a lot of games, you wouldn't have trouble naming at least a few -- which you didn't.
I've tried a ton of MMORPGs and have yet to find one that approaches WOW's responsiveness.
Compared to other games, MMOs suck in this regard across the board. For example: Some review said that Global Agenda had "sharp" FPS feel to it. That is just ridiculous. By FPS standards it is clunky, laggy and has no hitboxes.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Just learn to adept and you have np, at first i thought lineage2 movement sucks with point& click and without jump but after a while i got used to it and it became second nature to me.
Its up to you be willing to learn and accept not all games are same then there is no problem.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
This is exactly what I said when I was playing LotRO, AoC and EQ2 last night and could not help but compare them to WoW. The feeling of your avatar being part of the world you are in is uncanny. The other games I feel like i've been photo shopped into them is the only way I can explain it. No other game that I know of has the control or feeling of being in the world as well as WoW. So far.
EQ2's combat feels like a very artificial, unnatural simulation of MMO combat.
All developers use basically the same ingredients to build their gameplay and combat engine. What they do with those ingredients during development produces wildly varying results.
It's like the scene in Weird Science where the guys feed a bunch of info into a computer and get the ideal woman.
Blizzard did it and got this:
SOE did it and got this:
My youtube MMO gaming channel
This is exactly what I said when I was playing LotRO, AoC and EQ2 last night and could not help but compare them to WoW. The feeling of your avatar being part of the world you are in is uncanny. The other games I feel like i've been photo shopped into them is the only way I can explain it. No other game that I know of has the control or feeling of being in the world as well as WoW. So far.
EQ2's combat feels like a very artificial, unnatural simulation of MMO combat.
All developers use basically the same ingredients to build their gameplay and combat engine. What they do with those ingredients during development produces wildly varying results.
It's like the scene in Weird Science where the guys feed a bunch of info into a computer and get the ideal woman.
Blizzard did it and got this:
SOE did it and got this:
Am I the only one here, who finds the Borg more attractive, than some overblown 80's chick?
Just sayin'.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
This is exactly what I said when I was playing LotRO, AoC and EQ2 last night and could not help but compare them to WoW. The feeling of your avatar being part of the world you are in is uncanny. The other games I feel like i've been photo shopped into them is the only way I can explain it. No other game that I know of has the control or feeling of being in the world as well as WoW. So far.
EQ2's combat feels like a very artificial, unnatural simulation of MMO combat.
All developers use basically the same ingredients to build their gameplay and combat engine. What they do with those ingredients during development produces wildly varying results.
It's like the scene in Weird Science where the guys feed a bunch of info into a computer and get the ideal woman.
Blizzard did it and got this:
SOE did it and got this:
Am I the only one here, who finds the Borg more attractive, than some overblown 80's chick?
Just sayin'.
Thats Kelly Lebrock!! How dare you smear Weird Science=) Kids now a days, hehe.
This is exactly what I said when I was playing LotRO, AoC and EQ2 last night and could not help but compare them to WoW. The feeling of your avatar being part of the world you are in is uncanny. The other games I feel like i've been photo shopped into them is the only way I can explain it. No other game that I know of has the control or feeling of being in the world as well as WoW. So far.
EQ2's combat feels like a very artificial, unnatural simulation of MMO combat.
All developers use basically the same ingredients to build their gameplay and combat engine. What they do with those ingredients during development produces wildly varying results.
It's like the scene in Weird Science where the guys feed a bunch of info into a computer and get the ideal woman.
Blizzard did it and got this:
SOE did it and got this:
Am I the only one here, who finds the Borg more attractive, than some overblown 80's chick?
Just sayin'.
Are you insane? the chick from weird science was sick looking back in the day.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
This is exactly what I said when I was playing LotRO, AoC and EQ2 last night and could not help but compare them to WoW. The feeling of your avatar being part of the world you are in is uncanny. The other games I feel like i've been photo shopped into them is the only way I can explain it. No other game that I know of has the control or feeling of being in the world as well as WoW. So far.
EQ2's combat feels like a very artificial, unnatural simulation of MMO combat.
All developers use basically the same ingredients to build their gameplay and combat engine. What they do with those ingredients during development produces wildly varying results.
It's like the scene in Weird Science where the guys feed a bunch of info into a computer and get the ideal woman.
Blizzard did it and got this:
SOE did it and got this:
Am I the only one here, who finds the Borg more attractive, than some overblown 80's chick?
Just sayin'.
Thats Kelly Lebrock!! How dare you smear Weird Science=) Kids now a days, hehe.
I just agree with Conan on this subject. Women should have dignity and not just eye-candy. To each his own, though.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
You obviously don't play a lot of games, although I do agree that WoW is up there in terms of smoothness of player control.
Don't be a troll. If there was really enough games with superior controls to claim he "obviously" doesn't play a lot of games, you wouldn't have trouble naming at least a few -- which you didn't.
I've tried a ton of MMORPGs and have yet to find one that approaches WOW's responsiveness.
Compared to other games, MMOs suck in this regard across the board. For example: Some review said that Global Agenda had "sharp" FPS feel to it. That is just ridiculous. By FPS standards it is clunky, laggy and has no hitboxes.
Well hitboxes aren't needed for a good FPS game. TF2 doesn't have hitboxes (for the vast majority of weapons anyway) and it has very tight controls. My only critique of TF2's controls is that some weapons look like they're bullets with trajectories, when in fact they're hitscan.
But yeah, overall Global Agenda's controls aren't really that great. Ledge-grabbing makes things feel particularly laggy, and jetpacking is certainly laggier than any game in the Tribes series. You get the feeling of being rubber-banded a lot.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I have to say that anyone defending FPSs by citing TF2 needs to be reprimanded. That's just slack. TF2 is the most newbie friendly FPS out there, and the game mechanics are the reason.
For tight controls and realism, you absolutely need hitboxes. There's no exceptions. Getting hit in the head and getting hit in the arm are two completely different experiences and it definitely tightens everything up a bit. For this, I have to cite WWII Online. It's old, it has a huge learning curve, but it's realistic and it's got comfortable controls.
I also have to cite Gears of War, namely the second one. Not once did I ever have a problem with anything other than latency. The controls were tight, the movements were fluid, everything seemed to have a tinge of realism and the hitboxes did their jobs.
We don't need numbers floating around, but we do need hitboxes.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
