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WTH happened with CO? all is dead! :O
Elikal
Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
Today after 6 weeks absence in STO or so I went back to CO just for curiosity, and BOY... it was like dead can dance! Where once places where crowded, there where only a few here and there. Many places and 1 or 2 instanced copies, my guild which used to be big was DEVOID... and even tho I expected STO create a dent in CO and even tho I only mildly enjoyed Champions, it's like a shock! The game looks now like it is YEARS old! Even five+ year old EQ2 is more busy and alive!
I mean... wow. I am still kinda shocked. I know it was to be expected... but not that fast, not that harsh.
Even the graphics, comparing the STO characters detail and the total lack of detail in CO makes me feel like playing a 5 year old game here now, something I did not feel so sharp before. No matter what you think, but I feel its quite sad to see CO fall so bad. I would not be surprised now if it shuts down in a year or goes for free.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
There was a lifetime offer, what else would you expect? You think these guys wanted to make this game to last for long when they gave away lifetime offer? That's like a yelling - We want your money now, and we don't care if you will still play after you make your payment.
Afterall it's Bill Roper - it was his idea to have lifetime offer for Hellgate London.
REALITY CHECK
I am sick of hearing all of the hate regarding Lifetime Memberships. People need to get over it saying that it is as sign of money grabbing and lack of caring.
Look at LoTRO it is now 3 years old, and has 2 expansions and plenty of content updates. They give tons of stuff free, including expansions, while offering monthly subs for 9.99 every so often. They offered, and last I checked still offer Lifetime subscriptions, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are not. I bought it because it is a good deal.
Lifetime is there for players that like a game, want to support the developers, and get the most for their money. LoTRO is thriving and like stated offers lifetime subs.
Stop hating a game based on something so minor.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
Did you really think CO would be a long-term popular MMO? Heck, even its short-term popularity is arguable, its grown so small on Xfire (feel free to argue about inaccuracies, just mentioning the decline over time which you confirmed)...
And since this time you're not really under the "hype" effect anymore, not everything looks as great as before.
Give a company money for a lifetime subscription and watch the developmental care literally slip away while the company laughs all the way to the bank. Oh, and while lifetimer's vote doesn't really matter anymore since the money is banked.
I don't think that most games are launched with the intent of coming off the rails within a couple of years, but the fact is that most simply don't stand the test of time. Offering Lifetime memberships at launch are roughly equivalent to selling lottery tickets. Your chances of winning are pretty low. Even if the game lasts more than two years, it may simply not hold your attention for a period of time that allows you to recoup the expense of a lifetime subscription. I think most experienced gamers understand this and are unlikely to anchor themselves to game like that. But there are those for whom an offer like that would be attractive. Perhaps gamers who are new to the topsy-turvy world of MMOs or those who are already captivated with a particular IP. In either case, it's my opinion that selling these people lifetime memberships is verging on taking advantage of your clients. Even the developers, who may have the noblest of intentions, understand that success can be so very fleeting when it comes to MMOs. It's a shame that the publishers ignore this simple truth.
Lifetime memberships aren't inherently wrong. I just believe that few who buy them, actually understand the risk that they are taking. For that reason alone, I would distrust any company that offered this it launch since *they* do know better.
So a company that believes in its product, and offers them is wrong? And they should know better then to sell lifetime access to a product they made? If they cannot believe in the product how could they expect the users to? Your whole argument contradicts itself and any sanity that it might exemplify.
Users know one thing, they like the game, and it will allow them to play it until the game ceases to exist. There is no hidden agenda with the Lifetime subs, sorry to spoil the conspiracy theories. If someone likes the game enough they should be able to get permanent access to it for a discounted price.
Stop being so contradictorily conspiratorial.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
From my perspective, its not wrong for a company to offer a lifetime, and I read that it might be considered by some as taking advantage of a consumer, and that doesn't necessarily make it wrong, but a crap-shoot. It also can be considered very naive for someone to pay for a lifetime; so it goes both ways.
From my perspective, its not wrong for a company to offer a lifetime, and I hadn't read that anyone posted that, but it can be considered very naive for someone to pay for a lifetime; I think there's a difference.
Tons of people have said it is wrong to be offered, and stupid to buy. It is not wrong to offer their users a deal.
Nor is it "naive" or stupid if you like the game, know you want to play it for a long time, and want a discount in the long run, then there is nothing bad with it being bought.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
From my perspective, its not wrong for a company to offer a lifetime, and I hadn't read that anyone posted that, but it can be considered very naive for someone to pay for a lifetime; I think there's a difference.
Tons of people have said it is wrong to be offered, and stupid to buy. It is not wrong to offer their users a deal.
Nor is it "naive" or stupid if you like the game, know you want to play it for a long time, and want a discount in the long run, then there is nothing bad with it being bought.
I edited for clarity before you posted, but not fast enough. It can be considered taking advantage of a consumer-base based on generalities and 'hope' copywriting, etc. It can also be considered naive by the consumer base to think that $200-$300 deposit is worth the investment in the hope that the game develops beyond the initial launch material. That is all.
From my perspective, its not wrong for a company to offer a lifetime, and I hadn't read that anyone posted that, but it can be considered very naive for someone to pay for a lifetime; I think there's a difference.
Tons of people have said it is wrong to be offered, and stupid to buy. It is not wrong to offer their users a deal.
Nor is it "naive" or stupid if you like the game, know you want to play it for a long time, and want a discount in the long run, then there is nothing bad with it being bought.
But if you buy the lifetime sub, you'll never know if you are playing because you enjoy the game, or because you spent so much money on it and feel foolish not to keep playing.
But hey, its your money, spend it like you wish.
As for the population in CO, its just a glimpse of the future for STO and any game pretty much made by Cryptic.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
From my perspective, its not wrong for a company to offer a lifetime, and I hadn't read that anyone posted that, but it can be considered very naive for someone to pay for a lifetime; I think there's a difference.
Tons of people have said it is wrong to be offered, and stupid to buy. It is not wrong to offer their users a deal.
Nor is it "naive" or stupid if you like the game, know you want to play it for a long time, and want a discount in the long run, then there is nothing bad with it being bought.
But if you buy the lifetime sub, you'll never know if you are playing because you enjoy the game, or because you spent so much money on it and feel foolish not to keep playing.
But hey, its your money, spend it like you wish.
As for the population in CO, its just a glimpse of the future for STO and any game pretty much made by Cryptic.
I have not played CO. I played CoH and still maintain an active sub there.
If you bought the lifetime when you were playing and enjoying the game, and you know you will for long time to come, then you wouldn't be playing because you spent a lot of cash would you?
As for STO, STO is a great game, I am loving it and have been playing for over 2 days now since I bought it. IT has its issues, but ALL MMOs and games do. It will only get better, the story really pulled me in and I enjoy the combat and never knowing what will happen next. Stop the Cryptic hate, yes they made mistakes, all companies do at some point, but at least they made the changes that will correct the mistakes.
They said they were wrong for those mistakes, and they are seeking to correct them and are listening now to players like they never have before. Give them a chance and stop pushing their head under the water to drown them at every turn they take.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
Its not about right or wrong. Its a matter of perspective. Of course we can't know what they were thinking, but imo, a company offering lifetime subs at/before launch is a vote of no-confidence in their game. If they thought their game would be a long term success why would they short-change their profit by offering lifetime memberships?
I've been hearing a lot of stuff about Champions Online (It's the Devil. Cryptic is stealing our money!) so I decided to see for myself. I started up the trial they were offering. Jumped in the game. Made a Ice-spitting Half-Dragon Dominatrix and started it up.
At first I was like "Yay. City of Heroes" But then I started to play some more and I was actually enjoying it. So far, it's a lot of fun and I might even subscribe.
Its not about right or wrong. Its a matter of perspective. Of course we can't know what they were thinking, but imo, a company offering lifetime subs at/before launch is a vote of no-confidence in their game. If they thought their game would be a long term success why would they short-change their profit by offering lifetime memberships?
Short change? Why would you think offering a cheaper deal to their users in the long term is bad? They get the money upfront so to fund future development, the user enjoys the discount, and would hopefully invite friends to play and get the word out. Why try and twist that into a negative?
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
I find that very true about STO. I buy and attempt or play about every mmorpg, not MMOFPS's like crimecraft and global agenda, and STO has turned out to be more of a MMOFPS than a mmorpg.
I recently uninstalled STO with continued thoughts of how thinning the population is already becoming while reading several lifetime subscriber posts of concern and looking for a refund. /shrug
I am sick of hearing all of the hate regarding Lifetime Memberships. People need to get over it saying that it is as sign of money grabbing and lack of caring.
Look at LoTRO it is now 3 years old, and has 2 expansions and plenty of content updates. They give tons of stuff free, including expansions, while offering monthly subs for 9.99 every so often. They offered, and last I checked still offer Lifetime subscriptions, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are not. I bought it because it is a good deal.
Lifetime is there for players that like a game, want to support the developers, and get the most for their money. LoTRO is thriving and like stated offers lifetime subs.
Stop hating a game based on something so minor.
but one thing your not realizing is that lotr is a very big franchise more people are going to be likely to stick around and play a game that for all intents plays like the movies so fans of the movies will stay glued because they feel like they are apart of the movie
co well isnt a franchise and i do agree all lifetime subs are not just a grab for cash but with a game coming out as it is with so many issues it makes it look bad i mean thats like alganon asking for money before its even in beta
lotro is almost expected to offer that and if i had the cash to waste on something that would be it because then it would be very much like guild wars
i bought guild wars all expansions for about the price of the lifetime sub just in $50 increments honestly if they offered a payment on it id probably jump at it
Its not about right or wrong. Its a matter of perspective. Of course we can't know what they were thinking, but imo, a company offering lifetime subs at/before launch is a vote of no-confidence in their game. If they thought their game would be a long term success why would they short-change their profit by offering lifetime memberships?
Short change? Why would you think offering a cheaper deal to their users in the long term is bad? They get the money upfront so to fund future development, the user enjoys the discount, and would hopefully invite friends to play and get the word out. Why try and twist that into a negative?
Because it's Bill Roper? A lot of people, including me, are very VERY suspicious of him and what his intentions are for a game. Having played Hellgate London through beta and launch I can tell you that offering a lifetime sub for a game not even 6 months in doesn't sound right. Lotr can do it and it and not seem odd at all because they have made what most would view as a successful MMO. CO is not even close.
Point blank, it should never be a good idea to take a lifetime offer of an MMO at launch. To many MMOs are rushed out, and fail before they are given the light of day. There are only a handful that are still with the original developers and are still going....it's not worth the risk to me. Just my own opinion and no way a fact.
S.C.I.F.I
<Sights, Clouded, In, False, Illusions>
Its not about right or wrong. Its a matter of perspective. Of course we can't know what they were thinking, but imo, a company offering lifetime subs at/before launch is a vote of no-confidence in their game. If they thought their game would be a long term success why would they short-change their profit by offering lifetime memberships?
Short change? Why would you think offering a cheaper deal to their users in the long term is bad? They get the money upfront so to fund future development, the user enjoys the discount, and would hopefully invite friends to play and get the word out. Why try and twist that into a negative?
Because monthly sub fees over a long term are more than a lifetime sub. A lifetime is only profititable for the company if the player in question quits playing before they would have paid the same amount in monthly fees. So, a lifetime sub offer, especially at launch, can understandably be perceived as a lack of confidence in the long term prospects of the game.
As far as inviting others to play, what does the type of subscription have to do with it? Monthly subscribers are just as likely as lifetime subscribers to say to someone 'try this game'.
And if the game is good and has lots of sub, they have the money they need to fund future development (maybe if MMO's didn't launch incomplete, this wouldn't be an issue, but that is another argument).
I am sick of hearing all of the hate regarding Lifetime Memberships. People need to get over it saying that it is as sign of money grabbing and lack of caring.
Look at LoTRO it is now 3 years old, and has 2 expansions and plenty of content updates. They give tons of stuff free, including expansions, while offering monthly subs for 9.99 every so often. They offered, and last I checked still offer Lifetime subscriptions, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are not. I bought it because it is a good deal.
Lifetime is there for players that like a game, want to support the developers, and get the most for their money. LoTRO is thriving and like stated offers lifetime subs.
Stop hating a game based on something so minor.
Whether you like it or not, lifetime subscriptions generally don't bode well for an MMORPG. Why? Because it means that the developer/publisher of said game does not believe they will be able to keep long term subscribers to their game, so it's better to gain their subscription fees in one lump sum rather than expecting those long term subscriptions.
This is why games like City of Heroes, EVE Online, and World of Warcraft will never offer lifetime subscription (or else offer very expensive ones, $650-$750 range.) These companies know that people will be subscribing to their games for years and years to come.
I can't speak for LotRO, but CO and STO both offer lifetime subscriptions because Cryptic expects that either a) both games will have trouble holding an audience in the long term, or b) they can recoup costs of people getting a "free ride" for years to come by those players spending lots of money in their item mall.
Essentially, they are running STO and CO like very expensive free to play games. Very high initial box sale, and then money earned through the item mall.
And that is why people are calling lifetime subscriptions a money grubbing move. People generally don't like item malls for games they have to pay monthly for, as Cryptic found out the hard way with Vibora Pay.
I am sick of hearing all of the hate regarding Lifetime Memberships. People need to get over it saying that it is as sign of money grabbing and lack of caring.
Look at LoTRO it is now 3 years old, and has 2 expansions and plenty of content updates. They give tons of stuff free, including expansions, while offering monthly subs for 9.99 every so often. They offered, and last I checked still offer Lifetime subscriptions, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are not. I bought it because it is a good deal.
Lifetime is there for players that like a game, want to support the developers, and get the most for their money. LoTRO is thriving and like stated offers lifetime subs.
Stop hating a game based on something so minor.
Whether you like it or not, lifetime subscriptions generally don't bode well for an MMORPG. Why? Because it means that the developer/publisher of said game does not believe they will be able to keep long term subscribers to their game, so it's better to gain their subscription fees in one lump sum rather than expecting those long term subscription.
This is why games like City of Heroes, EVE Online, and World of Warcraft will never offer lifetime subscription (or else off very expensive ones, $650-$750 range.) These companies know that people will be subscribing to their games for years and years to come.
I can't speak for LotRO, but CO and STO both offer lifetime subscriptions because Cryptic expects that either a) both games will have trouble holding an audience in the long term, or b) they can recoup costs of people getting a "free ride" for years to come by those players spending lots of money in their item mall.
Essentially, they are running STO and CO like very expensive free to play games. Very high initial box sale, and then money earned through the item mall.
And that is why people are calling lifetime subscriptions a money grubbing move. People generally don't like item malls for games they have to pay monthly for, as Cryptic found out the hard way with Vibora Pay.
i can dig that
Companies that believe in their product don't offer lifetime subscriptions. They know they'll earn far, far more money by having players who subscribe for years and years.
LoTRO is in no way based on the movies, so that argument is void.
CO is a franchise based on a comic book series.
As for everyone else still looking into conspiracy theories. No one, including myself know why lifetime offers are offered, but one thing is for sure and cannot be debated.
If you like the game, and know you will play it for a long time, it is a good idea to pick one up. If you don't think the game will last and don't buy one for that simple reason, yet like the game, then it is your loss and trust issue. That does not make the game, nor its developers bad for offering to those who want it.
Players that do lifetime can play for cheaper in the long run, while the money gained will allow the developer to get a jump start on future development of the product. Neither are anything bad, both get something out of it.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
From my perspective, its not wrong for a company to offer a lifetime, and I hadn't read that anyone posted that, but it can be considered very naive for someone to pay for a lifetime; I think there's a difference.
Tons of people have said it is wrong to be offered, and stupid to buy. It is not wrong to offer their users a deal.
Nor is it "naive" or stupid if you like the game, know you want to play it for a long time, and want a discount in the long run, then there is nothing bad with it being bought.
But if you buy the lifetime sub, you'll never know if you are playing because you enjoy the game, or because you spent so much money on it and feel foolish not to keep playing.
But hey, its your money, spend it like you wish.
As for the population in CO, its just a glimpse of the future for STO and any game pretty much made by Cryptic.
I have not played CO. I played CoH and still maintain an active sub there.
If you bought the lifetime when you were playing and enjoying the game, and you know you will for long time to come, then you wouldn't be playing because you spent a lot of cash would you?
As for STO, STO is a great game, I am loving it and have been playing for over 2 days now since I bought it. IT has its issues, but ALL MMOs and games do. It will only get better, the story really pulled me in and I enjoy the combat and never knowing what will happen next. Stop the Cryptic hate, yes they made mistakes, all companies do at some point, but at least they made the changes that will correct the mistakes.
They said they were wrong for those mistakes, and they are seeking to correct them and are listening now to players like they never have before. Give them a chance and stop pushing their head under the water to drown them at every turn they take.
Interesting how you mention that you're subscribed to CoH. I'm a 39 (I think) month vet there myself. And this thread on the CoH official forums is why CoH will never have lifetime subscriptions: boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php
I am sick of hearing all of the hate regarding Lifetime Memberships. People need to get over it saying that it is as sign of money grabbing and lack of caring.
Look at LoTRO it is now 3 years old, and has 2 expansions and plenty of content updates. They give tons of stuff free, including expansions, while offering monthly subs for 9.99 every so often. They offered, and last I checked still offer Lifetime subscriptions, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are not. I bought it because it is a good deal.
Lifetime is there for players that like a game, want to support the developers, and get the most for their money. LoTRO is thriving and like stated offers lifetime subs.
Stop hating a game based on something so minor.
but one thing your not realizing is that lotr is a very big franchise more people are going to be likely to stick around and play a game that for all intents plays like the movies so fans of the movies will stay glued because they feel like they are apart of the movie
co well isnt a franchise and i do agree all lifetime subs are not just a grab for cash but with a game coming out as it is with so many issues it makes it look bad i mean thats like alganon asking for money before its even in beta
lotro is almost expected to offer that and if i had the cash to waste on something that would be it because then it would be very much like guild wars
i bought guild wars all expansions for about the price of the lifetime sub just in $50 increments honestly if they offered a payment on it id probably jump at it
LoTRO is in no way based on the movies, so that argument is void.
CO is a franchise based on a comic book series.
As for everyone else still looking into conspiracy theories. No one, including myself know why lifetime offers are offered, but one thing is for sure and cannot be debated.
If you like the game, and know you will play it for a long time, it is a good idea to pick one up. If you don't think the game will last and don't buy one for that simple reason, yet like the game, then it is your loss and trust issue. That does not make the game, nor its developers bad for offering to those who want it.
Players that do lifetime can play for cheaper in the long run, while the money gained will allow the developer to get a jump start on future development of the product. Neither are anything bad, both get something out of it.
if you note i said it plays like the movies not that it was based on the movies my point was basically the same as i was pointing out ppl who watch the movies rather then have read the books would be more likely to stick around to a game that immerses them like the movies
I've also tried the trial and I liked the character creator, I liked the voice acting, but I hated the stupid cartoony, comic-book graphics.
Also, I should warn everyone, you can't judge a game based on its trial if they restrict you to the newbie zone! Sometimes game companies will put a tonne of work and effort into the newbie zone, then leave the rest of the game completely unfinished. For example: The devs for Star Wars Galaxies created a newbie space station that had a voice acted han solo, easy to complete quests, and decent graphics. I'd played SWG before they put in the newb space station so I knew that the rest nof the game was absolutely nothing like it. Second example: I'm playing the Age of Conan trial currently, and the starting zone, Tortage, is really awesome. But from what I've read the rest of the game is nothing like the starting zone and is in fact extremely unfinished and quite boring.
If you choose to buy a game based on the tutorial zone, then caveat emptor, buyer beware.