There was a lifetime offer, what else would you expect? You think these guys wanted to make this game to last for long when they gave away lifetime offer? That's like a yelling - We want your money now, and we don't care if you will still play after you make your payment.
Afterall it's Bill Roper - it was his idea to have lifetime offer for Hellgate London.
I am sick of hearing all of the hate regarding Lifetime Memberships. People need to get over it saying that it is as sign of money grabbing and lack of caring.
Look at LoTRO it is now 3 years old, and has 2 expansions and plenty of content updates. They give tons of stuff free, including expansions, while offering monthly subs for 9.99 every so often. They offered, and last I checked still offer Lifetime subscriptions, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are not. I bought it because it is a good deal.
Lifetime is there for players that like a game, want to support the developers, and get the most for their money. LoTRO is thriving and like stated offers lifetime subs.
Stop hating a game based on something so minor.
but one thing your not realizing is that lotr is a very big franchise more people are going to be likely to stick around and play a game that for all intents plays like the movies so fans of the movies will stay glued because they feel like they are apart of the movie
co well isnt a franchise and i do agree all lifetime subs are not just a grab for cash but with a game coming out as it is with so many issues it makes it look bad i mean thats like alganon asking for money before its even in beta
lotro is almost expected to offer that and if i had the cash to waste on something that would be it because then it would be very much like guild wars
i bought guild wars all expansions for about the price of the lifetime sub just in $50 increments honestly if they offered a payment on it id probably jump at it
If you like the game, and know you will play it for a long time, it is a good idea to pick one up.
How would someone possibly know that at or before launch?
Since this thread has become a topic about Lifetime Subscriptions, I would like to add my two cents.
Its always smart for a consumer to look for bargains. Like buying items in bulk at a reduced price. Wich is basicly what buying a Lifetime Sub is.
But the problem with Lifetime Subs in an MMO is that the product you paid for may not be the same product in 6 months. Or even at Launch. Even if you played Beta and decided you liked the game and bought a Lifetime Sub, there is no guarentee that the game wont change in an unfavorable way a week after launch. And they can do that because they are protected by thier EULA. Wich leaves the paying customer screwed. The best a customer can do is suspend thier account untill they feel the game is back to thier likeing if it even survives.
CO is a prime example of all of these. The day the game launched they put in a launch day xp nerf wich reduced xp gains. It made it so if a player missed some missions, they would hit a leveling gap and couldnt go on any further without spending hours and hours trying to hunt down missed missions, or grind repeatable missions untill they reached a level that they could go on. They changed the way the game worked on day One.
Then over the next three months CO seen 4 (I think it was 4. dont remember now) rounds of nerfs and power set rebalancing. Still changing the game even more.
I could go on, but I think thats enough....
Now here we are 5 months into CO's life and its a mess. They have pissed off so many people that the game is Tanking and its not even 6 months old yet. The Lifers are all pissed and with good reason because this is not the game or service they thought they were buying, and they cant get thier money back.
So even if you played the beta of an MMO and liked it, you are still taking a gamble with your money because you never know wich direction an MMO will take.
Personally, I would rather pay month to month and if the game takes a turn for the worse, I can just simply stop paying and walk away with the option to still be able to come back any time in the future if I choose.
There was a lifetime offer, what else would you expect? You think these guys wanted to make this game to last for long when they gave away lifetime offer? That's like a yelling - We want your money now, and we don't care if you will still play after you make your payment.
Afterall it's Bill Roper - it was his idea to have lifetime offer for Hellgate London.
I am sick of hearing all of the hate regarding Lifetime Memberships. People need to get over it saying that it is as sign of money grabbing and lack of caring.
Look at LoTRO it is now 3 years old, and has 2 expansions and plenty of content updates. They give tons of stuff free, including expansions, while offering monthly subs for 9.99 every so often. They offered, and last I checked still offer Lifetime subscriptions, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are not. I bought it because it is a good deal.
Lifetime is there for players that like a game, want to support the developers, and get the most for their money. LoTRO is thriving and like stated offers lifetime subs.
Stop hating a game based on something so minor.
but one thing your not realizing is that lotr is a very big franchise more people are going to be likely to stick around and play a game that for all intents plays like the movies so fans of the movies will stay glued because they feel like they are apart of the movie
co well isnt a franchise and i do agree all lifetime subs are not just a grab for cash but with a game coming out as it is with so many issues it makes it look bad i mean thats like alganon asking for money before its even in beta
lotro is almost expected to offer that and if i had the cash to waste on something that would be it because then it would be very much like guild wars
i bought guild wars all expansions for about the price of the lifetime sub just in $50 increments honestly if they offered a payment on it id probably jump at it
If you like the game, and know you will play it for a long time, it is a good idea to pick one up.
How would someone possibly know that at or before launch?
Because usually games that offer lifetime offer beta access, and headstarts which you can tell if it is something you are interested in or not.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
I've also tried the trial and I liked the character creator, I liked the voice acting, but I hated the stupid cartoony, comic-book graphics.
So wait, let me get this right, you play a comic book based game, and yet expect it to NOT be cartoony and have the look of a comic book? O.o?
CO is not a comic book based game. It's based on a pen-and-paper RPG. It's a super hero game, and they had the right to go for the "Action Comics" look rather than the "Superman/Superman II" look, but I felt that the graphics looked wrong as if they were a clumsy parody or pastiche of comic book style art. I vastly prefer the more realistic approach to the graphics of City of Heroes.
Edit: Why does everyone suddenly think CO is based on comic books? It never was. City of Heroes is based more on comic books just from the fact there was once a City of Heroes comic book.
I've also tried the trial and I liked the character creator, I liked the voice acting, but I hated the stupid cartoony, comic-book graphics.
So wait, let me get this right, you play a comic book based game, and yet expect it to NOT be cartoony and have the look of a comic book? O.o?
CO is not a comic book based game. It's based on a pen-and-paper RPG. It's a super hero game, and they had the right to go for the "Action Comics" look rather than the "Superman/Superman II" look, but I felt that the graphics looked wrong as if they were a clumsy parody or pastiche of comic book style art. I vastly prefer the more realistic approach to the graphics of City of Heroes.
Edit: Why does everyone suddenly think CO is based on comic books? It never was. City of Heroes is based more on comic books just from the fact there was once a City of Heroes comic book.
Right and wrong,
Champions is a role-playing game designed to simulate and function in a four-color superhero comic book world.
Starting in June 1986, a comic mini-series was published by Eclipse Comics based on characters from the first Champions campaign. After the initial mini-series a regular series was published by Hero Comics (later Hero Graphics, later still Heroic Publishing).
So it started as one thing, led to another, and the fact remains it is based on a comic book style thus should look like it, and by the way, since when did CoX ever look realistic? Not even remotely.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
There was a lifetime offer, what else would you expect? You think these guys wanted to make this game to last for long when they gave away lifetime offer? That's like a yelling - We want your money now, and we don't care if you will still play after you make your payment.
Afterall it's Bill Roper - it was his idea to have lifetime offer for Hellgate London.
I am sick of hearing all of the hate regarding Lifetime Memberships. People need to get over it saying that it is as sign of money grabbing and lack of caring.
Look at LoTRO it is now 3 years old, and has 2 expansions and plenty of content updates. They give tons of stuff free, including expansions, while offering monthly subs for 9.99 every so often. They offered, and last I checked still offer Lifetime subscriptions, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are not. I bought it because it is a good deal.
Lifetime is there for players that like a game, want to support the developers, and get the most for their money. LoTRO is thriving and like stated offers lifetime subs.
Stop hating a game based on something so minor.
but one thing your not realizing is that lotr is a very big franchise more people are going to be likely to stick around and play a game that for all intents plays like the movies so fans of the movies will stay glued because they feel like they are apart of the movie
co well isnt a franchise and i do agree all lifetime subs are not just a grab for cash but with a game coming out as it is with so many issues it makes it look bad i mean thats like alganon asking for money before its even in beta
lotro is almost expected to offer that and if i had the cash to waste on something that would be it because then it would be very much like guild wars
i bought guild wars all expansions for about the price of the lifetime sub just in $50 increments honestly if they offered a payment on it id probably jump at it
If you like the game, and know you will play it for a long time, it is a good idea to pick one up.
How would someone possibly know that at or before launch?
Because usually games that offer lifetime offer beta access, and headstarts which you can tell if it is something you are interested in or not.
In those types of situations you usually get the beta/headstart as a reward for buying the lifetime sub, so again, how could you know you're going to like it? I could see if they came out with lifetime subs 6 months out, but its just silly at or before launch.
And even if you got into beta before buying your lifetime, its still silly because its beta. There is no community and no guarantee that what you're playing in beta is what you'll get at launch.
Originally posted by Xondar123 I've also tried the trial and I liked the character creator, I liked the voice acting, but I hated the stupid cartoony, comic-book graphics.
So wait, let me get this right, you play a comic book based game, and yet expect it to NOT be cartoony and have the look of a comic book? O.o?
CO is not a comic book based game. It's based on a pen-and-paper RPG. It's a super hero game, and they had the right to go for the "Action Comics" look rather than the "Superman/Superman II" look, but I felt that the graphics looked wrong as if they were a clumsy parody or pastiche of comic book style art. I vastly prefer the more realistic approach to the graphics of City of Heroes.
Edit: Why does everyone suddenly think CO is based on comic books? It never was. City of Heroes is based more on comic books just from the fact there was once a City of Heroes comic book.
...and the fact remains it is based on a comic book style thus should look like it, and by the way, since when did CoX ever look realistic? Not even remotely.
Comic book styles are vast and wide ranging and cover almost all styles imaginable. Cryptic could have made it look any way they wanted. They chose the way it is now. Personally I liked the look, but just pointing out that their hands were in no way tied by the IP
Originally posted by dhayes68 In those types of situations you usually get the beta/headstart as a reward for buying the lifetime sub, so again, how could you know you're going to like it? I could see if they came out with lifetime subs 6 months out, but its just silly at or before launch. And even if you got into beta before buying your lifetime, its still silly because its beta. There is no community and no guarantee that what you're playing in beta is what you'll get at launch.
Some things in beta change correct, however another thing is usually they do not change much that close to launch. Oh and the whole buy the game to get beta thing? You can pre order it, get into beta try it, if you don't like it cancel your pre order. It is really that simple. Ample time to check the game out is there, also lifetime for these games don't end at launch, matter of fact you can still get lifetime for STO, LoTRO etc... So you would have had 2 weeks to play STO and decide is lifetime is good for you. Your argument is void and falls flat, in all merits.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
In those types of situations you usually get the beta/headstart as a reward for buying the lifetime sub, so again, how could you know you're going to like it? I could see if they came out with lifetime subs 6 months out, but its just silly at or before launch.
And even if you got into beta before buying your lifetime, its still silly because its beta. There is no community and no guarantee that what you're playing in beta is what you'll get at launch.
Some things in beta change correct, however another thing is usually they do not change much that close to launch. Oh and the whole buy the game to get beta thing? You can pre order it, get into beta try it, if you don't like it cancel your pre order. It is really that simple. Ample time to check the game out is there, also lifetime for these games don't end at launch, matter of fact you can still get lifetime for STO, LoTRO etc... So you would have had 2 weeks to play STO and decide is lifetime is good for you. Your argument is void and falls flat, in all merits.
Yeah, they change a lot. Remember we're talking about a lifetime sub. Within 6 months most MMO's a near unrecognizable from their launch state.
Also my argument is very valid because what you're arguing is not for buying a lifetime sub. pre-ordering/trying beta/canceling is hardly the equivalent to buying a lifetime sub. In fact by trying before you decide, you're making an argument AGAINST the blind lifetime sub at launch. You're essentially admitting it'd be a foolish thing to do.
In those types of situations you usually get the beta/headstart as a reward for buying the lifetime sub, so again, how could you know you're going to like it? I could see if they came out with lifetime subs 6 months out, but its just silly at or before launch.
And even if you got into beta before buying your lifetime, its still silly because its beta. There is no community and no guarantee that what you're playing in beta is what you'll get at launch.
Some things in beta change correct, however another thing is usually they do not change much that close to launch. Oh and the whole buy the game to get beta thing? You can pre order it, get into beta try it, if you don't like it cancel your pre order. It is really that simple. Ample time to check the game out is there, also lifetime for these games don't end at launch, matter of fact you can still get lifetime for STO, LoTRO etc... So you would have had 2 weeks to play STO and decide is lifetime is good for you. Your argument is void and falls flat, in all merits.
Ok those are some good points. But what if the game changes unfavorably in 4 months? Or even 6 months?
Yeah, they change a lot. Remember we're talking about a lifetime sub. Within 6 months most MMO's a near unrecognizable from their launch state. Also my argument is very valid because what you're arguing is not for buying a lifetime sub. pre-ordering/trying beta/canceling is hardly the equivalent to buying a lifetime sub. In fact by trying before you decide, you're making an argument AGAINST the blind lifetime sub at launch. You're essentially admitting it'd be a foolish thing to do. [/quote]
Never did I say anything about blindly buying lifetime, I said if someone likes the game, knows they will stick with it, there should be no reason they couldn't buy it. Don't twist my words around to prove your own lack of valid points in an argument.
Originally posted by Apache_
Originally posted by spyder2k5
Originally posted by dhayes68 In those types of situations you usually get the beta/headstart as a reward for buying the lifetime sub, so again, how could you know you're going to like it? I could see if they came out with lifetime subs 6 months out, but its just silly at or before launch. And even if you got into beta before buying your lifetime, its still silly because its beta. There is no community and no guarantee that what you're playing in beta is what you'll get at launch.
Some things in beta change correct, however another thing is usually they do not change much that close to launch. Oh and the whole buy the game to get beta thing? You can pre order it, get into beta try it, if you don't like it cancel your pre order. It is really that simple. Ample time to check the game out is there, also lifetime for these games don't end at launch, matter of fact you can still get lifetime for STO, LoTRO etc... So you would have had 2 weeks to play STO and decide is lifetime is good for you. Your argument is void and falls flat, in all merits.
Ok those are some good points. But what if the game changes unfavorably in 4 months? Or even 6 months?
MMOs change, those that subscribe for lifetime know those risks, and those that do not should not have a credit card to mess up like that. That is still not the companies fault nor the developers fault if the player does not like certain changes. It is a slight risk and leap of faith, but what in life isn't?
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
Players make out in long run on a game they wish to commit to. Devs make out for the bigger chunk of cash up front to help with all the extra costs of launch. It's not the lifetime offer, it's making sure you commit to a game you can have confidence in.
LOTRO if that is a game, IF you like is my opinion a good investment. It has longevity, and a solid company tending to it.
Champions, is made by a company that never had released it's own MMO before. People think just because Cryptic developed City of Heroes, they can totally manage a MMO on their own.
City of Heroes has ALWAYS been under NCSOFT management. It's NCSOFT that has CoH now, and that game is in MUCH better shape then CO. Especially with the upcoming Graphic overhaul. City of Heroes has the most loyal and friendly player base, and devs that really seem to care about the game. CoH is not a game for everyone (not enough pvp for me), but it's one of the most solid MMO's ever released, thanks (as we all see now) in BIG part to NCSOFT.
There was a reason Marvel pulled out of CO. They were smart for it.
In those types of situations you usually get the beta/headstart as a reward for buying the lifetime sub, so again, how could you know you're going to like it? I could see if they came out with lifetime subs 6 months out, but its just silly at or before launch.
And even if you got into beta before buying your lifetime, its still silly because its beta. There is no community and no guarantee that what you're playing in beta is what you'll get at launch.
Some things in beta change correct, however another thing is usually they do not change much that close to launch. Oh and the whole buy the game to get beta thing? You can pre order it, get into beta try it, if you don't like it cancel your pre order. It is really that simple. Ample time to check the game out is there, also lifetime for these games don't end at launch, matter of fact you can still get lifetime for STO, LoTRO etc... So you would have had 2 weeks to play STO and decide is lifetime is good for you. Your argument is void and falls flat, in all merits.
Ok those are some good points. But what if the game changes unfavorably in 4 months? Or even 6 months?
In fact didn't Cryptic made very unfavorable changes to CO at and right after launch?
In those types of situations you usually get the beta/headstart as a reward for buying the lifetime sub, so again, how could you know you're going to like it? I could see if they came out with lifetime subs 6 months out, but its just silly at or before launch.
And even if you got into beta before buying your lifetime, its still silly because its beta. There is no community and no guarantee that what you're playing in beta is what you'll get at launch.
Some things in beta change correct, however another thing is usually they do not change much that close to launch. Oh and the whole buy the game to get beta thing? You can pre order it, get into beta try it, if you don't like it cancel your pre order. It is really that simple. Ample time to check the game out is there, also lifetime for these games don't end at launch, matter of fact you can still get lifetime for STO, LoTRO etc... So you would have had 2 weeks to play STO and decide is lifetime is good for you. Your argument is void and falls flat, in all merits.
Ok those are some good points. But what if the game changes unfavorably in 4 months? Or even 6 months?
In fact didn't Cryptic made very unfavorable changes to CO at and right after launch?
Matter of opinion, some liked it some didn't. It happens.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
In those types of situations you usually get the beta/headstart as a reward for buying the lifetime sub, so again, how could you know you're going to like it? I could see if they came out with lifetime subs 6 months out, but its just silly at or before launch.
And even if you got into beta before buying your lifetime, its still silly because its beta. There is no community and no guarantee that what you're playing in beta is what you'll get at launch.
Some things in beta change correct, however another thing is usually they do not change much that close to launch. Oh and the whole buy the game to get beta thing? You can pre order it, get into beta try it, if you don't like it cancel your pre order. It is really that simple. Ample time to check the game out is there, also lifetime for these games don't end at launch, matter of fact you can still get lifetime for STO, LoTRO etc... So you would have had 2 weeks to play STO and decide is lifetime is good for you. Your argument is void and falls flat, in all merits.
Ok those are some good points. But what if the game changes unfavorably in 4 months? Or even 6 months?
In fact didn't Cryptic made very unfavorable changes to CO at and right after launch?
Matter of opinion, some liked it some didn't. It happens.
In those types of situations you usually get the beta/headstart as a reward for buying the lifetime sub, so again, how could you know you're going to like it? I could see if they came out with lifetime subs 6 months out, but its just silly at or before launch.
And even if you got into beta before buying your lifetime, its still silly because its beta. There is no community and no guarantee that what you're playing in beta is what you'll get at launch.
Some things in beta change correct, however another thing is usually they do not change much that close to launch. Oh and the whole buy the game to get beta thing? You can pre order it, get into beta try it, if you don't like it cancel your pre order. It is really that simple. Ample time to check the game out is there, also lifetime for these games don't end at launch, matter of fact you can still get lifetime for STO, LoTRO etc... So you would have had 2 weeks to play STO and decide is lifetime is good for you. Your argument is void and falls flat, in all merits.
Ok those are some good points. But what if the game changes unfavorably in 4 months? Or even 6 months?
There was a lifetime offer, what else would you expect? You think these guys wanted to make this game to last for long when they gave away lifetime offer? That's like a yelling - We want your money now, and we don't care if you will still play after you make your payment. Afterall it's Bill Roper - it was his idea to have lifetime offer for Hellgate London.
I am sick of hearing all of the hate regarding Lifetime Memberships. People need to get over it saying that it is as sign of money grabbing and lack of caring.
Look at LoTRO it is now 3 years old, and has 2 expansions and plenty of content updates. They give tons of stuff free, including expansions, while offering monthly subs for 9.99 every so often. They offered, and last I checked still offer Lifetime subscriptions, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are not. I bought it because it is a good deal.
Lifetime is there for players that like a game, want to support the developers, and get the most for their money. LoTRO is thriving and like stated offers lifetime subs.
Stop hating a game based on something so minor.
No it's not. Lifetime offer is a scam.
Lotro is going badly at the moment. Horribly badly.
It's basically a free to play game with microtransactions at the moment. From numerous forum polls on official servers, it seems over 60% of the players are already on lifetime - which they paid 2-3 years ago.
The game basically recieves no free updates since Moria. It's paid expansion after paid expansion with microtransactions offer such as:
2 more character slots for 10$
Shared bank storage 10$
Premium items - cloaks, jewellry - 6$
Mounts at lower level 10$
etc...
If you have 60% of your playerbase on lifetime, it means your income is coming from only 40% of your playerbase - which at 100.000 players means you get income only from 40k. Pretty much what's happening in Lotro - that's why they are "forced" to release paid expansions with content which should normally be free-update.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy. ______________________________ "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
There was a lifetime offer, what else would you expect? You think these guys wanted to make this game to last for long when they gave away lifetime offer? That's like a yelling - We want your money now, and we don't care if you will still play after you make your payment. Afterall it's Bill Roper - it was his idea to have lifetime offer for Hellgate London.
A life-time offer does not make a game bad by definition. I took the life-time offer of LorD of the Rings online, and still think the game is great (though not actively playing right now).
Problem with CO (and soon STo) is the developer. Using a "generic" engine that you created will limit you somehow in the possibilities to create a game that most players will like. Though I did not play CO, I've heard the comparisations of STo with CO, and I found STo very limited compared with other MMORPGs
I think (and hope) that CO (and later STo) will be either made F2P or discontinued. As for Cryptic... I hope they'll quit making MMORPGs or start seriously and license a REAL engine and make a quality game. Though I doubt Cryptic and quality game will go along...
There was a lifetime offer, what else would you expect? You think these guys wanted to make this game to last for long when they gave away lifetime offer? That's like a yelling - We want your money now, and we don't care if you will still play after you make your payment. Afterall it's Bill Roper - it was his idea to have lifetime offer for Hellgate London.
A life-time offer does not make a game bad by definition. I took the life-time offer of LorD of the Rings online, and still think the game is great (though not actively playing right now).
Problem with CO (and soon STo) is the developer. Using a "generic" engine that you created will limit you somehow in the possibilities to create a game that most players will like. Though I did not play CO, I've heard the comparisations of STo with CO, and I found STo very limited compared with other MMORPGs
I think (and hope) that CO (and later STo) will be either made F2P or discontinued. As for Cryptic... I hope they'll quit making MMORPGs or start seriously and license a REAL engine and make a quality game. Though I doubt Cryptic and quality game will go along...
Lifetime offer is a strong indication that the company does not have a long-term profit on mind, but rather need a short term money injection.
Would you buy a car insurance from a company offering you lifetime insurance for a single pay-out price? If you would, there's obviously something wrong with you.
There is no company out there in any sort of monthly-subscription income business that is meant to last for long, that would offer lifetime subscription for a single payoff price. The only company I know is Turbine and Bill Roper.
Lotro offered lifetime for a price of 12 months. What kind of players do you think bought the lifetime? Those that expected to stick with the game at least for 12 months (at least) - which means most certainly, they will and would stay with the game for longer. It's a money-loss for Turbine. The only way Turbine can make any sort of money from lifetimers (over 60% of their playerbase) are paid expansions and microtransactions that I already mentioned -- which is exactly what is happening.
There was a lifetime offer, what else would you expect? You think these guys wanted to make this game to last for long when they gave away lifetime offer? That's like a yelling - We want your money now, and we don't care if you will still play after you make your payment. Afterall it's Bill Roper - it was his idea to have lifetime offer for Hellgate London.
I am sick of hearing all of the hate regarding Lifetime Memberships. People need to get over it saying that it is as sign of money grabbing and lack of caring.
Look at LoTRO it is now 3 years old, and has 2 expansions and plenty of content updates. They give tons of stuff free, including expansions, while offering monthly subs for 9.99 every so often. They offered, and last I checked still offer Lifetime subscriptions, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are not. I bought it because it is a good deal.
Lifetime is there for players that like a game, want to support the developers, and get the most for their money. LoTRO is thriving and like stated offers lifetime subs.
Stop hating a game based on something so minor.
No it's not. Lifetime offer is a scam.
Lotro is going badly at the moment. Horribly badly.
It's basically a free to play game with microtransactions at the moment. From numerous forum polls on official servers, it seems over 60% of the players are already on lifetime - which they paid 2-3 years ago.
The game basically recieves no free updates since Moria. It's paid expansion after paid expansion with microtransactions offer such as:
2 more character slots for 10$
Shared bank storage 10$
Premium items - cloaks, jewellry - 6$
Mounts at lower level 10$
etc...
If you have 60% of your playerbase on lifetime, it means your income is coming from only 40% of your playerbase - which at 100.000 players means you get income only from 40k. Pretty much what's happening in Lotro - that's why they are "forced" to release paid expansions with content which should normally be free-update.
You really have no clue what your talking about. All these features were part of the last expansion Mirkwood.
Lotro is going badly at the moment. Horribly badly. It's basically a free to play game with microtransactions at the moment. From numerous forum polls on official servers, it seems over 60% of the players are already on lifetime - which they paid 2-3 years ago. The game basically recieves no free updates since Moria. It's paid expansion after paid expansion with microtransactions offer such as:
2 more character slots for 10$ Shared bank storage 10$ Premium items - cloaks, jewellry - 6$ Mounts at lower level 10$
etc... If you have 60% of your playerbase on lifetime, it means your income is coming from only 40% of your playerbase - which at 100.000 players means you get income only from 40k. Pretty much what's happening in Lotro - that's why they are "forced" to release paid expansions with content which should normally be free-update.
You really have no clue what your talking about. All these features were part of the last expansion Mirkwood.
No, they were not.
You had to pay additionally for each one of them as part of the "adventure packs". And you still can buy these.
Paying for additional character slots?
Paying to have mounts available at lower level?
Paying for premium items?
Aren't these microtransactions? Aren't 65% of the playerbase already lifetimers? -> Isn't Lotro actually free to play atm with paid boxed expansions, no free updates and microtransactions? -- All because of the lifetime model?
Do you think they can keep up the game for another 2-3 years when majority of their playerbase aren't paying anything?
Lotro is going badly at the moment. Horribly badly. It's basically a free to play game with microtransactions at the moment. From numerous forum polls on official servers, it seems over 60% of the players are already on lifetime - which they paid 2-3 years ago. The game basically recieves no free updates since Moria. It's paid expansion after paid expansion with microtransactions offer such as:
2 more character slots for 10$ Shared bank storage 10$ Premium items - cloaks, jewellry - 6$ Mounts at lower level 10$
etc... If you have 60% of your playerbase on lifetime, it means your income is coming from only 40% of your playerbase - which at 100.000 players means you get income only from 40k. Pretty much what's happening in Lotro - that's why they are "forced" to release paid expansions with content which should normally be free-update.
You really have no clue what your talking about. All these features were part of the last expansion Mirkwood.
No, they were not.
You had to pay additionally for each one of them as part of the "adventure packs". And you still can buy these.
Paying for additional character slots?
Paying to have mounts available at lower level?
Paying for premium items?
Aren't these microtransactions? Aren't 65% of the playerbase already lifetimers? -> Isn't Lotro actually free to play atm with paid boxed expansions, no free updates and microtransactions?
Do you even play LOTRO? I bought the expansion and have all those features as part of my purchase. The featuers you listed were part of the adventurers pack that you got free if you pre-orderd Mirkwood or had a life time sub or a multi month sub.
These features are still offered in the adventurers pack for 19.99 from LOTRO web site if you don't want to purchase Mirkwood. If you purchase the expansion Mirkwood you get the adventurers pack with it. Go check it out if you don't believe me.
This will probally be STO in a month or so, from what I hear of the game there is very little to it at all.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words." -Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
Comments
So wait, let me get this right, you play a comic book based game, and yet expect it to NOT be cartoony and have the look of a comic book? O.o?
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
I am sick of hearing all of the hate regarding Lifetime Memberships. People need to get over it saying that it is as sign of money grabbing and lack of caring.
Look at LoTRO it is now 3 years old, and has 2 expansions and plenty of content updates. They give tons of stuff free, including expansions, while offering monthly subs for 9.99 every so often. They offered, and last I checked still offer Lifetime subscriptions, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are not. I bought it because it is a good deal.
Lifetime is there for players that like a game, want to support the developers, and get the most for their money. LoTRO is thriving and like stated offers lifetime subs.
Stop hating a game based on something so minor.
but one thing your not realizing is that lotr is a very big franchise more people are going to be likely to stick around and play a game that for all intents plays like the movies so fans of the movies will stay glued because they feel like they are apart of the movie
co well isnt a franchise and i do agree all lifetime subs are not just a grab for cash but with a game coming out as it is with so many issues it makes it look bad i mean thats like alganon asking for money before its even in beta
lotro is almost expected to offer that and if i had the cash to waste on something that would be it because then it would be very much like guild wars
i bought guild wars all expansions for about the price of the lifetime sub just in $50 increments honestly if they offered a payment on it id probably jump at it
If you like the game, and know you will play it for a long time, it is a good idea to pick one up.
How would someone possibly know that at or before launch?
Since this thread has become a topic about Lifetime Subscriptions, I would like to add my two cents.
Its always smart for a consumer to look for bargains. Like buying items in bulk at a reduced price. Wich is basicly what buying a Lifetime Sub is.
But the problem with Lifetime Subs in an MMO is that the product you paid for may not be the same product in 6 months. Or even at Launch. Even if you played Beta and decided you liked the game and bought a Lifetime Sub, there is no guarentee that the game wont change in an unfavorable way a week after launch. And they can do that because they are protected by thier EULA. Wich leaves the paying customer screwed. The best a customer can do is suspend thier account untill they feel the game is back to thier likeing if it even survives.
CO is a prime example of all of these. The day the game launched they put in a launch day xp nerf wich reduced xp gains. It made it so if a player missed some missions, they would hit a leveling gap and couldnt go on any further without spending hours and hours trying to hunt down missed missions, or grind repeatable missions untill they reached a level that they could go on. They changed the way the game worked on day One.
Then over the next three months CO seen 4 (I think it was 4. dont remember now) rounds of nerfs and power set rebalancing. Still changing the game even more.
I could go on, but I think thats enough....
Now here we are 5 months into CO's life and its a mess. They have pissed off so many people that the game is Tanking and its not even 6 months old yet. The Lifers are all pissed and with good reason because this is not the game or service they thought they were buying, and they cant get thier money back.
So even if you played the beta of an MMO and liked it, you are still taking a gamble with your money because you never know wich direction an MMO will take.
Personally, I would rather pay month to month and if the game takes a turn for the worse, I can just simply stop paying and walk away with the option to still be able to come back any time in the future if I choose.
I am sick of hearing all of the hate regarding Lifetime Memberships. People need to get over it saying that it is as sign of money grabbing and lack of caring.
Look at LoTRO it is now 3 years old, and has 2 expansions and plenty of content updates. They give tons of stuff free, including expansions, while offering monthly subs for 9.99 every so often. They offered, and last I checked still offer Lifetime subscriptions, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are not. I bought it because it is a good deal.
Lifetime is there for players that like a game, want to support the developers, and get the most for their money. LoTRO is thriving and like stated offers lifetime subs.
Stop hating a game based on something so minor.
but one thing your not realizing is that lotr is a very big franchise more people are going to be likely to stick around and play a game that for all intents plays like the movies so fans of the movies will stay glued because they feel like they are apart of the movie
co well isnt a franchise and i do agree all lifetime subs are not just a grab for cash but with a game coming out as it is with so many issues it makes it look bad i mean thats like alganon asking for money before its even in beta
lotro is almost expected to offer that and if i had the cash to waste on something that would be it because then it would be very much like guild wars
i bought guild wars all expansions for about the price of the lifetime sub just in $50 increments honestly if they offered a payment on it id probably jump at it
If you like the game, and know you will play it for a long time, it is a good idea to pick one up.
How would someone possibly know that at or before launch?
Because usually games that offer lifetime offer beta access, and headstarts which you can tell if it is something you are interested in or not.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
So wait, let me get this right, you play a comic book based game, and yet expect it to NOT be cartoony and have the look of a comic book? O.o?
CO is not a comic book based game. It's based on a pen-and-paper RPG. It's a super hero game, and they had the right to go for the "Action Comics" look rather than the "Superman/Superman II" look, but I felt that the graphics looked wrong as if they were a clumsy parody or pastiche of comic book style art. I vastly prefer the more realistic approach to the graphics of City of Heroes.
Edit: Why does everyone suddenly think CO is based on comic books? It never was. City of Heroes is based more on comic books just from the fact there was once a City of Heroes comic book.
So wait, let me get this right, you play a comic book based game, and yet expect it to NOT be cartoony and have the look of a comic book? O.o?
CO is not a comic book based game. It's based on a pen-and-paper RPG. It's a super hero game, and they had the right to go for the "Action Comics" look rather than the "Superman/Superman II" look, but I felt that the graphics looked wrong as if they were a clumsy parody or pastiche of comic book style art. I vastly prefer the more realistic approach to the graphics of City of Heroes.
Edit: Why does everyone suddenly think CO is based on comic books? It never was. City of Heroes is based more on comic books just from the fact there was once a City of Heroes comic book.
Right and wrong,
Champions is a role-playing game designed to simulate and function in a four-color superhero comic book world.
Starting in June 1986, a comic mini-series was published by Eclipse Comics based on characters from the first Champions campaign. After the initial mini-series a regular series was published by Hero Comics (later Hero Graphics, later still Heroic Publishing).
So it started as one thing, led to another, and the fact remains it is based on a comic book style thus should look like it, and by the way, since when did CoX ever look realistic? Not even remotely.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
I am sick of hearing all of the hate regarding Lifetime Memberships. People need to get over it saying that it is as sign of money grabbing and lack of caring.
Look at LoTRO it is now 3 years old, and has 2 expansions and plenty of content updates. They give tons of stuff free, including expansions, while offering monthly subs for 9.99 every so often. They offered, and last I checked still offer Lifetime subscriptions, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are not. I bought it because it is a good deal.
Lifetime is there for players that like a game, want to support the developers, and get the most for their money. LoTRO is thriving and like stated offers lifetime subs.
Stop hating a game based on something so minor.
but one thing your not realizing is that lotr is a very big franchise more people are going to be likely to stick around and play a game that for all intents plays like the movies so fans of the movies will stay glued because they feel like they are apart of the movie
co well isnt a franchise and i do agree all lifetime subs are not just a grab for cash but with a game coming out as it is with so many issues it makes it look bad i mean thats like alganon asking for money before its even in beta
lotro is almost expected to offer that and if i had the cash to waste on something that would be it because then it would be very much like guild wars
i bought guild wars all expansions for about the price of the lifetime sub just in $50 increments honestly if they offered a payment on it id probably jump at it
If you like the game, and know you will play it for a long time, it is a good idea to pick one up.
How would someone possibly know that at or before launch?
Because usually games that offer lifetime offer beta access, and headstarts which you can tell if it is something you are interested in or not.
In those types of situations you usually get the beta/headstart as a reward for buying the lifetime sub, so again, how could you know you're going to like it? I could see if they came out with lifetime subs 6 months out, but its just silly at or before launch.
And even if you got into beta before buying your lifetime, its still silly because its beta. There is no community and no guarantee that what you're playing in beta is what you'll get at launch.
So wait, let me get this right, you play a comic book based game, and yet expect it to NOT be cartoony and have the look of a comic book? O.o?
CO is not a comic book based game. It's based on a pen-and-paper RPG. It's a super hero game, and they had the right to go for the "Action Comics" look rather than the "Superman/Superman II" look, but I felt that the graphics looked wrong as if they were a clumsy parody or pastiche of comic book style art. I vastly prefer the more realistic approach to the graphics of City of Heroes.
Edit: Why does everyone suddenly think CO is based on comic books? It never was. City of Heroes is based more on comic books just from the fact there was once a City of Heroes comic book.
...and the fact remains it is based on a comic book style thus should look like it, and by the way, since when did CoX ever look realistic? Not even remotely.
Comic book styles are vast and wide ranging and cover almost all styles imaginable. Cryptic could have made it look any way they wanted. They chose the way it is now. Personally I liked the look, but just pointing out that their hands were in no way tied by the IP
Some things in beta change correct, however another thing is usually they do not change much that close to launch. Oh and the whole buy the game to get beta thing? You can pre order it, get into beta try it, if you don't like it cancel your pre order. It is really that simple. Ample time to check the game out is there, also lifetime for these games don't end at launch, matter of fact you can still get lifetime for STO, LoTRO etc... So you would have had 2 weeks to play STO and decide is lifetime is good for you. Your argument is void and falls flat, in all merits.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
Yeah, they change a lot. Remember we're talking about a lifetime sub. Within 6 months most MMO's a near unrecognizable from their launch state.
Also my argument is very valid because what you're arguing is not for buying a lifetime sub. pre-ordering/trying beta/canceling is hardly the equivalent to buying a lifetime sub. In fact by trying before you decide, you're making an argument AGAINST the blind lifetime sub at launch. You're essentially admitting it'd be a foolish thing to do.
Some things in beta change correct, however another thing is usually they do not change much that close to launch. Oh and the whole buy the game to get beta thing? You can pre order it, get into beta try it, if you don't like it cancel your pre order. It is really that simple. Ample time to check the game out is there, also lifetime for these games don't end at launch, matter of fact you can still get lifetime for STO, LoTRO etc... So you would have had 2 weeks to play STO and decide is lifetime is good for you. Your argument is void and falls flat, in all merits.
Ok those are some good points. But what if the game changes unfavorably in 4 months? Or even 6 months?
Also my argument is very valid because what you're arguing is not for buying a lifetime sub. pre-ordering/trying beta/canceling is hardly the equivalent to buying a lifetime sub. In fact by trying before you decide, you're making an argument AGAINST the blind lifetime sub at launch. You're essentially admitting it'd be a foolish thing to do.
[/quote]
Never did I say anything about blindly buying lifetime, I said if someone likes the game, knows they will stick with it, there should be no reason they couldn't buy it. Don't twist my words around to prove your own lack of valid points in an argument.
MMOs change, those that subscribe for lifetime know those risks, and those that do not should not have a credit card to mess up like that. That is still not the companies fault nor the developers fault if the player does not like certain changes. It is a slight risk and leap of faith, but what in life isn't?
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
Nothing wrong with offering lifetime subs.
Players make out in long run on a game they wish to commit to. Devs make out for the bigger chunk of cash up front to help with all the extra costs of launch. It's not the lifetime offer, it's making sure you commit to a game you can have confidence in.
LOTRO if that is a game, IF you like is my opinion a good investment. It has longevity, and a solid company tending to it.
Champions, is made by a company that never had released it's own MMO before. People think just because Cryptic developed City of Heroes, they can totally manage a MMO on their own.
City of Heroes has ALWAYS been under NCSOFT management. It's NCSOFT that has CoH now, and that game is in MUCH better shape then CO. Especially with the upcoming Graphic overhaul. City of Heroes has the most loyal and friendly player base, and devs that really seem to care about the game. CoH is not a game for everyone (not enough pvp for me), but it's one of the most solid MMO's ever released, thanks (as we all see now) in BIG part to NCSOFT.
There was a reason Marvel pulled out of CO. They were smart for it.
Some things in beta change correct, however another thing is usually they do not change much that close to launch. Oh and the whole buy the game to get beta thing? You can pre order it, get into beta try it, if you don't like it cancel your pre order. It is really that simple. Ample time to check the game out is there, also lifetime for these games don't end at launch, matter of fact you can still get lifetime for STO, LoTRO etc... So you would have had 2 weeks to play STO and decide is lifetime is good for you. Your argument is void and falls flat, in all merits.
Ok those are some good points. But what if the game changes unfavorably in 4 months? Or even 6 months?
In fact didn't Cryptic made very unfavorable changes to CO at and right after launch?
Some things in beta change correct, however another thing is usually they do not change much that close to launch. Oh and the whole buy the game to get beta thing? You can pre order it, get into beta try it, if you don't like it cancel your pre order. It is really that simple. Ample time to check the game out is there, also lifetime for these games don't end at launch, matter of fact you can still get lifetime for STO, LoTRO etc... So you would have had 2 weeks to play STO and decide is lifetime is good for you. Your argument is void and falls flat, in all merits.
Ok those are some good points. But what if the game changes unfavorably in 4 months? Or even 6 months?
In fact didn't Cryptic made very unfavorable changes to CO at and right after launch?
Matter of opinion, some liked it some didn't. It happens.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
Some things in beta change correct, however another thing is usually they do not change much that close to launch. Oh and the whole buy the game to get beta thing? You can pre order it, get into beta try it, if you don't like it cancel your pre order. It is really that simple. Ample time to check the game out is there, also lifetime for these games don't end at launch, matter of fact you can still get lifetime for STO, LoTRO etc... So you would have had 2 weeks to play STO and decide is lifetime is good for you. Your argument is void and falls flat, in all merits.
Ok those are some good points. But what if the game changes unfavorably in 4 months? Or even 6 months?
In fact didn't Cryptic made very unfavorable changes to CO at and right after launch?
Matter of opinion, some liked it some didn't. It happens.
Exactly my point. Thank you.
Some things in beta change correct, however another thing is usually they do not change much that close to launch. Oh and the whole buy the game to get beta thing? You can pre order it, get into beta try it, if you don't like it cancel your pre order. It is really that simple. Ample time to check the game out is there, also lifetime for these games don't end at launch, matter of fact you can still get lifetime for STO, LoTRO etc... So you would have had 2 weeks to play STO and decide is lifetime is good for you. Your argument is void and falls flat, in all merits.
Ok those are some good points. But what if the game changes unfavorably in 4 months? Or even 6 months?
Three little letters that prove this point: NGE.
I am sick of hearing all of the hate regarding Lifetime Memberships. People need to get over it saying that it is as sign of money grabbing and lack of caring.
Look at LoTRO it is now 3 years old, and has 2 expansions and plenty of content updates. They give tons of stuff free, including expansions, while offering monthly subs for 9.99 every so often. They offered, and last I checked still offer Lifetime subscriptions, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are not. I bought it because it is a good deal.
Lifetime is there for players that like a game, want to support the developers, and get the most for their money. LoTRO is thriving and like stated offers lifetime subs.
Stop hating a game based on something so minor.
No it's not. Lifetime offer is a scam.
Lotro is going badly at the moment. Horribly badly.
It's basically a free to play game with microtransactions at the moment. From numerous forum polls on official servers, it seems over 60% of the players are already on lifetime - which they paid 2-3 years ago.
The game basically recieves no free updates since Moria. It's paid expansion after paid expansion with microtransactions offer such as:
etc...
If you have 60% of your playerbase on lifetime, it means your income is coming from only 40% of your playerbase - which at 100.000 players means you get income only from 40k. Pretty much what's happening in Lotro - that's why they are "forced" to release paid expansions with content which should normally be free-update.
REALITY CHECK
Amusing. Void of any real argument, but amusing.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
A life-time offer does not make a game bad by definition. I took the life-time offer of LorD of the Rings online, and still think the game is great (though not actively playing right now).
Problem with CO (and soon STo) is the developer. Using a "generic" engine that you created will limit you somehow in the possibilities to create a game that most players will like. Though I did not play CO, I've heard the comparisations of STo with CO, and I found STo very limited compared with other MMORPGs
I think (and hope) that CO (and later STo) will be either made F2P or discontinued. As for Cryptic... I hope they'll quit making MMORPGs or start seriously and license a REAL engine and make a quality game. Though I doubt Cryptic and quality game will go along...
A life-time offer does not make a game bad by definition. I took the life-time offer of LorD of the Rings online, and still think the game is great (though not actively playing right now).
Problem with CO (and soon STo) is the developer. Using a "generic" engine that you created will limit you somehow in the possibilities to create a game that most players will like. Though I did not play CO, I've heard the comparisations of STo with CO, and I found STo very limited compared with other MMORPGs
I think (and hope) that CO (and later STo) will be either made F2P or discontinued. As for Cryptic... I hope they'll quit making MMORPGs or start seriously and license a REAL engine and make a quality game. Though I doubt Cryptic and quality game will go along...
Lifetime offer is a strong indication that the company does not have a long-term profit on mind, but rather need a short term money injection.
Would you buy a car insurance from a company offering you lifetime insurance for a single pay-out price? If you would, there's obviously something wrong with you.
There is no company out there in any sort of monthly-subscription income business that is meant to last for long, that would offer lifetime subscription for a single payoff price. The only company I know is Turbine and Bill Roper.
Lotro offered lifetime for a price of 12 months. What kind of players do you think bought the lifetime? Those that expected to stick with the game at least for 12 months (at least) - which means most certainly, they will and would stay with the game for longer. It's a money-loss for Turbine. The only way Turbine can make any sort of money from lifetimers (over 60% of their playerbase) are paid expansions and microtransactions that I already mentioned -- which is exactly what is happening.
REALITY CHECK
I am sick of hearing all of the hate regarding Lifetime Memberships. People need to get over it saying that it is as sign of money grabbing and lack of caring.
Look at LoTRO it is now 3 years old, and has 2 expansions and plenty of content updates. They give tons of stuff free, including expansions, while offering monthly subs for 9.99 every so often. They offered, and last I checked still offer Lifetime subscriptions, sometimes they are cheaper sometimes they are not. I bought it because it is a good deal.
Lifetime is there for players that like a game, want to support the developers, and get the most for their money. LoTRO is thriving and like stated offers lifetime subs.
Stop hating a game based on something so minor.
No it's not. Lifetime offer is a scam.
Lotro is going badly at the moment. Horribly badly.
It's basically a free to play game with microtransactions at the moment. From numerous forum polls on official servers, it seems over 60% of the players are already on lifetime - which they paid 2-3 years ago.
The game basically recieves no free updates since Moria. It's paid expansion after paid expansion with microtransactions offer such as:
etc...
If you have 60% of your playerbase on lifetime, it means your income is coming from only 40% of your playerbase - which at 100.000 players means you get income only from 40k. Pretty much what's happening in Lotro - that's why they are "forced" to release paid expansions with content which should normally be free-update.
You really have no clue what your talking about. All these features were part of the last expansion Mirkwood.
You really have no clue what your talking about. All these features were part of the last expansion Mirkwood.
No, they were not.
You had to pay additionally for each one of them as part of the "adventure packs". And you still can buy these.
Paying for additional character slots?
Paying to have mounts available at lower level?
Paying for premium items?
Aren't these microtransactions? Aren't 65% of the playerbase already lifetimers? -> Isn't Lotro actually free to play atm with paid boxed expansions, no free updates and microtransactions? -- All because of the lifetime model?
Do you think they can keep up the game for another 2-3 years when majority of their playerbase aren't paying anything?
REALITY CHECK
You really have no clue what your talking about. All these features were part of the last expansion Mirkwood.
No, they were not.
You had to pay additionally for each one of them as part of the "adventure packs". And you still can buy these.
Paying for additional character slots?
Paying to have mounts available at lower level?
Paying for premium items?
Aren't these microtransactions? Aren't 65% of the playerbase already lifetimers? -> Isn't Lotro actually free to play atm with paid boxed expansions, no free updates and microtransactions?
Do you even play LOTRO? I bought the expansion and have all those features as part of my purchase. The featuers you listed were part of the adventurers pack that you got free if you pre-orderd Mirkwood or had a life time sub or a multi month sub.
These features are still offered in the adventurers pack for 19.99 from LOTRO web site if you don't want to purchase Mirkwood. If you purchase the expansion Mirkwood you get the adventurers pack with it. Go check it out if you don't believe me.
This will probally be STO in a month or so, from what I hear of the game there is very little to it at all.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words."
-Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.