General: Are You an MMOG Snob?

Stradden

MMORPG.com's Free Zone writer Richard Aihoshi takes a look this week at MMO snobs.

I wonder how many times I've seen people make absolute statements to the effect that "I'll never play a free to play game." And how often will this actually prove to be so? The last time I checked, never was a very long time. It's easy enough to believe things like "I'll never murder anyone", "I'll never be in favor of gay marriage" and "I'll never support abortion on demand". Such declarations are likely to be based on deeply held societal, group or personal values that aren't likely to change.

You can call me a faithless unbeliever if you like, but somehow, I can't give never playing a F2P anywhere near the same degree of credibility. Instead, I might compare it to never eating escargot or sushi. I think most people are sincere when they say rule out the possibility, but my expectation is that eventually, the majority will partake at least once. A fair number will even enjoy the experience and repeat it.

Read Are You an MMOG Snob? 

eric_w66

I'll never play a F2P MMORPG.

I did play DDO without a sub, but that wasn't "Free" since I had to buy various things just to make the game enjoyable. And I no longer play it since I might as well have bought a sub if I was going to, but it wasn't that fun to me to make a sub worthwhile.

No F2P game has had the content or quality that the P2P games *tend* to have. It's really simple:

You get what you pay for.

slashbeast

Look Richard.....I like the idea of a F2P MMO. I DON'T like the idea of a F2P, P2P, B2P with an ITEM SHOP. That's the thing. Item shops. If it has an item shop I won't even look at it once. I love the guild wars business model. F2P with only a cosmetics micro transactions. Guild Wars doesn't have an item shop where you can buy weapons and armor. Any F2P that takes the guild wars route is #1 on my list even over a P2P game (unless it's really awesome.)

I don't think people hate the F2P business model, just the item shops. Nowadays when I think F2P I think item shop, because GW is the only F2P game I know of that doesn't have one.

Just sayin'.

Evasia

I can farely say i never play free two play mmo that have itemshops that also counts for p2p.

I can put this never in the hardcore never list of mine of things i never would do:P

Aladyleyna

 Honestly, from the way I see it, while I do agree that sometimes, pay to play games have a higher quality to them but the thing is, I don't see them as any better than free to play games. I've played both pay to play games and free to play games, and what makes me stick to the game is whether I am having fun or not. Regardless of the payment scheme, as long as I stop enjoying the game, I stop playing it, simple as that. I've left both free to play and pay to play games before, mainly because none of them were able to captivate me for the long term, with the exception of Guild Wars and (maybe) Atlantica Online.

So to me, the payment scheme does not matter in the slightest. And yes, I do think that people who think that free to play gamers are somewhat inferior to pay to play gamers are snobs. 

Evasia

If people say they have try every mmorpg on market out there they prolly mean they have tryed several in different styles and becouse many are same style they say ive tryed them all but not meaning they have played them all just a way of saying experience is wide over various mmorpg's.

OP you take it all to serious, dont believe all they say on netz ok:P

Talin

I'll play any game that has features I am interested in and a model where I know what I am paying for. If it is free with a cash shop, that's fine, but make it very clear what I am not receiving by not paying - items, functionality, zones, advancement options, etc.

F2P games used to be half-finished, sometimes half-baked ideas that were barely realized according to the standards of their P2P bretheren. This is no longer the case, as publishers see F2P as a viable way of running a game and making money.

I've always been intrigued how a F2P game can manage its cashflow with a largely (if not completely) inconsistent stream of revenue. I imagine most are smaller development studios to keep their overhead lower, and since F2P relies on digital distribution their publishing costs are less overall.

Evasia

Originally posted by Aladyleyna


 Honestly, from the way I see it, while I do agree that sometimes, pay to play games have a higher quality to them but the thing is, I don't see them as any better than free to play games. I've played both pay to play games and free to play games, and what makes me stick to the game is whether I am having fun or not. Regardless of the payment scheme, as long as I stop enjoying the game, I stop playing it, simple as that. I've left both free to play and pay to play games before, mainly because none of them were able to captivate me for the long term, with the exception of Guild Wars and (maybe) Atlantica Online.
So to me, the payment scheme does not matter in the slightest. And yes, I do think that people who think that free to play gamers are somewhat inferior to pay to play gamers are snobs. 

 

I agree many can enjoy and invest as much in a free two play then a play two pay, its all about enjoyment and having fun free or pay make no difference there are no elites hehe.

markt50

Never say never,

I certainly don't play F2P MMO's, primarily because I've yet to find one that is any good. Oh sure, I've tried many an F2P game and they have all suffered from the same problem in that the core game is just horrible when stacked up against a P2P game of a similar style. Whether it's dreadful performance, horrible servers with constant spamming, gameplay butchered to 'force' you to use item stores, the list just goes on and on. I simply choose not to play F2P games because I do not like any of the ones I have tried.

Does that make me a snob ? maybe, I certainly don't look down on people who play F2P games, instead I look upon the games themselves with the contempt they usually deserve, it has nothing to do with those that play them. Maybe one day there will be a half decent F2P game, heck maybe one even exists now and I just haven't tried it, but I'd much rather stick with paying my monthly sub for access to much higher quality games imho.

Besides, the very term F2P is missleading for many of these games, if you want to have fun then you usually have to buy stuff from the item stores, and in some cases spend more than you would in monthly subs on another games.

dterry

So Richard is allowed to call a large portion of this community snobs because we disagree with his opinion on F2P? Now, I bet if I call Richard a name in response I get warned or outright banned...

 

How about this then?

I will never read another Richard Aihoshi column.

 

And if F2P is the future then I am done with MMO's.

Kyleran

Well, I've played F2P's with a cash shop (ROM) and while the game was decent enough, I didn't like the impact the cash shop had on player power in PVP.  With many players spending several hundred dollars on their lower level sets and up to reportedly $8000 for one player's set, I don't want to be part of game where cash can make such a difference.

Other games like DDO seem to have a more acceptable model, so sure, I'll probably consider playing them.

Biggest problem with many cash shop games is they are designed to "strongly" encourage the player to spend money in them, (which is fine, I realize they need to  make money) but when the 'average' player needs to spend much beyond the monthly cost of a typical P2P then I draw the line and no longer care to play the game.

That said, I still prefer the P2P model for a flat fee, even if it had to go up to 19.95 a month to cover costs.

Burntvet

With the exception of DDO, which I played before it's conversion to F2P, I have never played a F2P worth the time it took to download. Not one.

So, I am not saying "I will never play an F2P", I am saying I haven't found one yet worth playing for any length of time, itemshop or no.

With that being my experience (and that of many others, I am sure)  so far, how much enthusiasm should I have for the latest and greatest free grinder to come out?

Not that I have run out to buy many P2Ps in the last few years either, the latest releases going back a couple years have more or less lousy.

 

I am a customer, not a credit card, and  that is how game producers ought to look at things.

 

 

Gorilla

Originally posted by eric_w66


I'll never play a F2P MMORPG.
I did play DDO without a sub, but that wasn't "Free" since I had to buy various things just to make the game enjoyable. And I no longer play it since I might as well have bought a sub if I was going to, but it wasn't that fun to me to make a sub worthwhile.
No F2P game has had the content or quality that the P2P games *tend* to have. It's really simple:
You get what you pay for.

In F2P that is true, literally.  The irony is that as often as not you often need to spend more on F2P  than you would on a sub just to have a decent play experience. (And grinding 100  hours to get the bag expansion for free is not a decent play experience). 

 

Reizla

OMG... Only replies I will/will not play F2P MMOGs. That's not Richards point.

His piece was a lot of rubbish. Yes, you hear it right; RUBBISH!. Richard is just showing some facts about feeling superior over an other and at the same time proving you're not superior. He made some good points there showing you guys (yes, the article was mainly aimed at the US MMOG market) how snobbish you actually are...

On the first question. Will I play F2P? I'm no snob. If a game feels right, I'll play it. I don't care if it's F2P, P2P or has an itemshop. I won't support a P2P game with itemshop though.

 

...guess I'm no snob and passed the article well

Ozmodan

The problem with the F2P model is that many of the companies that host these games have a distorted sense of what things are worth.  Take any gPotato game for example, if you have to use the item shop expect to get bled dry.  All their items shops are so outrageously priced that they have become an anathema in this industry.  Perfect World and others are not much better.

In DDO's case, things are done differently by Turbine.  Nothing is very expensive in their item store and I can actually have fun playing the game by spending less than a normal subscription would cost. 

So it really depends on who is hosting the game as to whether anyone is a snob or not.  I am definitely a gPotato snob, I just don't touch any of their games anymore.   I am not going to fund absolute greed.

 

rywalt

I guess I'm a snob then.

 

Kyroz

Why exactly is it snobbish to dislike being ripped off by a gaming company?  Sometimes I wonder about you people who will defend shady business practices, makes me feel you have an invested interest in that type of business and aren't worried at all about ethics.

Yes, ethics do and should be involved in business.  They even teach college courses about it.

cosy

never buy a thing on item shop and i dont stay to much on F2P games because somehow i get bothered that the game "force" me to use the item shop

bleyzwun

The f2p model is becoming more appealing with every new p2p release usually sucking ass.  Still, the quality of these shitty p2p games are usually much better than their free counterparts.  I also don't appreciate the fact that some of these Cash Shops are a total rip off.  I was planning on playing Allods, but after reading about their CS, I decided not to waste any time on the game. 

I'm definitely interested in any f2p that follows GW's model.  I wasn't a fan of the game, but I was a fan of their model for sure.  I don't hate microtransactions/cash shops, but their prices and items should be fair and reasonable. 

As long as the quality of f2p games gets better, and microtransactions are fair, I can see most MMOs going that route.  These recent p2p games are really not that great.  They are better than f2p, but not good enough for me to pay monthly.  I'm sure many people can agree on that.  Until these p2p companies step it up, I will be on the hunt for a good free game... too bad I can't find one that can hold my attention, yet.

AOCtester

I find it quite amusing to see ppl talk of free to play as "less quality"....

Look at what AOC, WAR, CO and STO are making ppl pay for....

I have played quite a few Free to play MMOs and I find them usually pretty good.  I suggest everyone get at least 1 f2p game to play with their sub based game - cause playing 2 sub based games simply isn't worth it.

My bet at this time would be for ppl to try out Atlantica Online - or If you are a WOW player - go Runes of Magic and try out the dual spec system they got. 

Nightbringe1

I am an MMORPG snob.

I will not play MMORPG's that I consider to be low quality or single dimensional (including games that have no room for the RP part).

As for the payment method....../shrug.

Most f2p games are not of high enough quality for me to bother with, and I would never play a game where money spent > effort put into the game.

That being said, I have been playing DDO, and I have spent money to purchase content in that game. I will not, however, spend money on gear, xp potions, or anything that can be unlocked via normal gameplay mechanisms.

neonwire

"I'll never murder anyone", "I'll never be in favor of gay marriage" and "I'll never support abortion on demand". Such declarations are likely to be based on deeply held societal, group or personal values that aren't likely to change.

So you consider gay people marrying each other (an expression of love between two people which harms no one) to be on the same level as murdering someone or aborting an unborn child.  I realise that it might not neccessarily be your own personal viewpoint, but I have to question your decision to use that particular combination of examples. I didnt bother reading the rest of your article as that particular part put me off reading any further.

 

[Mod Edit]

Inktomi

Originally posted by Kyleran


Well, I've played F2P's with a cash shop (ROM) and while the game was decent enough, I didn't like the impact the cash shop had on player power in PVP.  With many players spending several hundred dollars on their lower level sets and up to reportedly $8000 for one player's set, I don't want to be part of game where cash can make such a difference.
Other games like DDO seem to have a more acceptable model, so sure, I'll probably consider playing them.
Biggest problem with many cash shop games is they are designed to "strongly" encourage the player to spend money in them, (which is fine, I realize they need to  make money) but when the 'average' player needs to spend much beyond the monthly cost of a typical P2P then I draw the line and no longer care to play the game.
That said, I still prefer the P2P model for a flat fee, even if it had to go up to 19.95 a month to cover costs.

I agree with you Kyle. And I think I know that $8,000 player. We had a knight in our guild named Azurans and he spend an unGodly amount of money on his gear. He was the #1 tank on the server with the most HP. Crazy.

If your a RoM vet like I am you probably know the bag/bank mechanic they used to make you buy daimonds. That was the biggest turnoff to me. When I have to spend over $12 bucks a month just to keep my space open then its not worth it, nor is it free to play anymore.

I was thinking about a new approach that these F2P developers can take. Hold a Closed and Open beta as free to play. Make all the cash shop items avail in the beta and make them all cosmetic. So upon release there is no surprises. On release charge beta players $9.95 for the client and newer players $14.95 for the client. Yep, just 15 bucks. 

Then the monthly fee would be another 9.95 a month and just sell cosmetic items through the item shop. THATS IT, just cosmetic items.

I'm sure paying 9.95 monthly when most games charge 14.95 as the norm will encourage people to spend that extra $5. They feel as if they are saving.

No gimmicks, no BS, all honest and upfront. Here's the catch: It will have to be a darn good game. If its good and cheaper than average no telling how many people will sign up.

PS.

I am a MMOG snob. You will never catch me playing farmville, fishville or any of that farcebook carp. Real MMORPG ONRY thanks!

nakuma

given the current quality of MMO's released lately, I am not so much a snob as I am just fed up with the craptastic MMO's being released for a quick money run, or dont really constitute as "Massive online" with all the stupid Instancing BS, or lack of content, or plain bugs, errors,and broken features when released at launch. A SNob is someone despite a product or object being of good value he considers crap. There is no satisfying a Snob, who has standards that cant be easily met. With MMO's of late, the quality has gone down so low, that no one is really a snob, gamers are just fed up with what they are offered.

Its like buying a steak dinner without the steak, ....there is no real substance, or worse yet its like recieving a steak but its maybe undercooked,unseasoned, fatty or grisly and just plain unappetizing..whats the point of bringing this to me if I can't really enjoy it or savor it.

Stradden

Originally posted by neonwire


[Mod Edit]

 

With all due respect, please take a look at what was said there. The author didn't say he SUPPORTED those things. he was also not in any way COMPARING those things. He named a number of hot button issues about which many people have deep rooted beliefs that aren't likely to change. If you didn't take the time to understand the context of what was said, that's your call but it's your own fault and not the author's.

Shelby13

I don't know if its snobbery or more an 'back-lash' effect from the new micro-transaction models being 'added' to formerly 'pure' P2P subscription-based games.

I've yet to play a F2P game, not because I believe I am 'above' anything or even 'against' item-shops.

However, I do see what happens to the games core quality when the 'extra' items are introduces as an 'extra' fee.  The extra's get the big development bucks.. the core game gets the shaft in order to protect the 'value' of the extra's.

SWG Trading Card game.. great example... undermines the crafter (non-combat) system as well as the regular subscriber (grind-to-get) players by adding a 'lottery-based' random item if you buy a 'pack' of cards.  In order to support the value of the 'extra' packs... the quality between extra and grind-based items has become dramatically apparent.

So... perhaps its not just because players are 'against' F2P systems.. it just might be that F2P tend to be based on a system that is frustrating a lof of players in the traditional P2P systems that are getting converted into sub+item shops.

Its frustration by association.