“They seem to imply that F2P players are inferior or second-rate in some manner”
I have to disagree with this statement, F2P models are really second-rate games. They don’t have the financial support as most of the subscription games do, which in turn is the result of a C class game. I can’t say that I’ve NEVER played a F2P game, I’m guilty. I gave two a shot, Runes of Magic and Shaiya, unfortunately they both left a bad taste in my mouth. Runes of Magic was the better of the two, it is a clone of World of Warcraft even the action bar is almost identical. What I didn’t like was the quality, its animation was stiff, and the world was cramped. Textures seem bland, the towns are all the same, like hubs of NPCs for quests, and almost everything is a kill task. I got bored with it around lvl34, (There was a bugged quest I couldn’t complete) took me 4 days to get there. Then I tried Shaiya, that lasted a few hours, I liked the characters but the world seemed empty not enough quests, not enough things to do and literally no social contact. My personal experience would rate these two F2P games as substandard quality for the years they were released. One can argue with this saying that I didn’t give them enough time, but honestly they couldn’t hold my interest.
"There are also times when I can't help but wonder if such convictions contribute to or even underlie the intensity with which some people object to item sales. The apparent basis is usually the presumption that developing your character by spending more time playing it is the good, right and natural order of the universe. That would mean anything else is somehow less worthy, even outright wrong.”
This mentality comes for people that are not giving things on a silver platter. My father always told me if I want something then I have to go out and earn it for myself. This is were the negativity comes into play, I see a player run by me in a game, I say hey that’s a cool looking sword you got there, they say sweet thanks. I say were did you get it, did it drop off that new sweet boss they released last patch? They respond nope, bought it from the item store. Is this really what MMOs are now? What a waste of time, I think ill go buy a new T shirt and show it off at the movies.
How much does it really mater that china has more MMO players than the US does? We still drink our beer and they drink their sake. That’s when it comes down to quality; do you want MMO filled with lead? Blizzard is a perfect example of quality and that’s all American. If I’m a snob for being the way I am, then you sir are too open minded and give to much credit to were its not worth.
Originally posted by AOCtester Originally posted by Fadedbomb Another terrible column from Mr.Aihoshi, and even more so because he's essentially calling ANYONE with a different opinion than his a "Snob".
The FACT is, like another poster mentioned, you get what you pay for. Free games are NEVER "free", and 9/10 will cause you to spend MORE money to get the SAME basic services that pay to play gives for a FIXED amount per month.
"Free to Play", or microtransactions, interested the DEVIL of the MMORPG market for a reason (AKA: John Smedley). Microtransactions actually show a marketable profitability FAR greater than monthly payments. This is because small payments towards a final goal add up, but not before a person actually realizes how much they're spending per month. I know this first hand since I used to have a roommate with a gambling problem and ended up losing more than $100/mo to SOE's trading card games in EQ2. Needless to say he couldn't pay his part of the rent, and I had to kick him out !
Heres the deal mister. PPL are free to pay as much or as little that they like in F2P. If they can't handle it cause of gamblin problem or addiction - dont think that SUb based will save them cause they will just waste their TIME instead. Playing your life away like many do in the sub based game is in many ways worse. Alot of young ppl are right now PLAYING their life away in sub based games - skipping school - skipping homework - not getting a job. Hell... many of them will never even get an apartment. Free to play gives players options if they want to play for Xtra amount of time to get items - or just buy them (like EXPpotions). Alot of the low lifes that sit infront of a pc 10 hours per day hate this idea cause it actually gives real ppl that have jobs and take part in real life a chance to progress with the money the EARN with their job.
Uhmmm, a lot of kiddos play in F2P games - average age is much lower there from P2P games. Usually kidos don't have cash/credit card for P2P games. I'm not rude, that's a fact. Besides, playing P2P games are not forcing me to play 24/7... I don't understand from where you get that info but I laughed hard reading it. "Hell... many of them will never even get an apartment." Ohhh my, paying for a game $15 month won't get you apartment
With all due respect, please take a look at what was said there. The author didn't say he SUPPORTED those things. he was also not in any way COMPARING those things. He named a number of hot button issues about which many people have deep rooted beliefs that aren't likely to change. If you didn't take the time to understand the context of what was said, that's your call but it's your own fault and not the author's.
Well, His (author's) articles don't really "say" anything and he always resorts to insulting what seems to be the larger portion of this site's membership. If he has to resort to using such examples to in an effort to make a point I'd question his writing ability, personally. I could have made the same point without taking it to such extremes.
Full disclosure in that I haven't given any merit to a single article this guy has written for this site. My opinion is you'd do better to find a columnist to represent F2P games that didn't have an axe to grind against anyone who doesn't like them and is giddy with having a public forum on the front door of those people in which to insult them on a weekly basis.
Yes, you are right. He didn't compare those thing verbatim. Why bring them up then. He sure compared the strength of the "I'll never play F2P MMOs" sentiment to those others. I'm pretty sure the multitudes of your readers who have that opinion/view don't appreciate being it compared in the line with bigots, infant death and murder. I know that if I made such comments about Aihoshi or any other member here I'd probably get banned forever.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Another terrible column from Mr.Aihoshi, and even more so because he's essentially calling ANYONE with a different opinion than his a "Snob".
The FACT is, like another poster mentioned, you get what you pay for. Free games are NEVER "free", and 9/10 will cause you to spend MORE money to get the SAME basic services that pay to play gives for a FIXED amount per month.
"Free to Play", or microtransactions, interested the DEVIL of the MMORPG market for a reason (AKA: John Smedley). Microtransactions actually show a marketable profitability FAR greater than monthly payments. This is because small payments towards a final goal add up, but not before a person actually realizes how much they're spending per month. I know this first hand since I used to have a roommate with a gambling problem and ended up losing more than $100/mo to SOE's trading card games in EQ2. Needless to say he couldn't pay his part of the rent, and I had to kick him out !
Heres the deal mister. PPL are free to pay as much or as little that they like in F2P. If they can't handle it cause of gamblin problem or addiction - dont think that SUb based will save them cause they will just waste their TIME instead. Playing your life away like many do in the sub based game is in many ways worse. Alot of young ppl are right now PLAYING their life away in sub based games - skipping school - skipping homework - not getting a job. Hell... many of them will never even get an apartment.
Free to play gives players options if they want to play for Xtra amount of time to get items - or just buy them (like EXPpotions). Alot of the low lifes that sit infront of a pc 10 hours per day hate this idea cause it actually gives real ppl that have jobs and take part in real life a chance to progress with the money the EARN with their job.
On the contrary, it gives players with EXPENDABLE amounts of $$ to choose how MUCH they'd like to spend. Fairly often than not, it's never how little the player WANTS to pay for their subscription. If you pay NOTHING, or bare minimum (normally $16.99 for the same monthly benefits as a $14.99 sub game) you aren't getting as much as the guy shelling our $40/mo for the same product, just a WHOLE lot less. What this does is imbalances the game and allows people with MORE money to get MORE than any other player who doesn't. This is the inevitable flaw of "F2P" games, and this is the dispicable part of the whole debacle.
The facts still stand, Free to Play IS NOT actually free, and is more often several times more expensive with little return.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I don't know if its snobbery or more an 'back-lash' effect from the new micro-transaction models being 'added' to formerly 'pure' P2P subscription-based games. I've yet to play a F2P game, not because I believe I am 'above' anything or even 'against' item-shops. However, I do see what happens to the games core quality when the 'extra' items are introduces as an 'extra' fee. The extra's get the big development bucks.. the core game gets the shaft in order to protect the 'value' of the extra's. SWG Trading Card game.. great example... undermines the crafter (non-combat) system as well as the regular subscriber (grind-to-get) players by adding a 'lottery-based' random item if you buy a 'pack' of cards. In order to support the value of the 'extra' packs... the quality between extra and grind-based items has become dramatically apparent. So... perhaps its not just because players are 'against' F2P systems.. it just might be that F2P tend to be based on a system that is frustrating a lof of players in the traditional P2P systems that are getting converted into sub+item shops. Its frustration by association.
Pretty much this. Although I have played F2P games, and have seen the difference injections of $/£/€ make to the play experience. Didn't make me stop playing, didn't bother me unduly. I think what most people are after is transparency.
Either you pay a flat rate and have access to all content (including weapons, skills, pots etc.), or you pay nothing and pay to access content/exp buffs/armor sets/mounts etc. etc. What's annoying so many people is the bleed through from F2P where all of this is understandable (they have to make money somehow) into P2P where they are already making money from subs fees.
Is it "snobbish" to call companies out for being greedy? Is the furor over the perfume in the Allods shop based on some sort of elitism? Hardly.
To lump those upset about forced RMTs in P2P games with those who have the "I'll never play a F2P game" mindset is just laziness, and implies that everyone except Richard is a snob, because we don't fully appreciate the area he has chosen to work in.
As the old saw goes, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar", so maybe next time tone down the vitriol and explain why we should all love F2P games, that should make a more interesting read than this rant, and it may actually make a difference.
"There are also times when I can't help but wonder if such convictions contribute to or even underlie the intensity with which some people object to item sales. The apparent basis is usually the presumption that developing your character by spending more time playing it is the good, right and natural order of the universe. That would mean anything else is somehow less worthy, even outright wrong.”
This mentality comes for people that are not giving things on a silver platter. My father always told me if I want something then I have to go out and earn it for myself. This is were the negativity comes into play, I see a player run by me in a game, I say hey that’s a cool looking sword you got there, they say sweet thanks. I say were did you get it, did it drop off that new sweet boss they released last patch? They respond nope, bought it from the item store. Is this really what MMOs are now? What a waste of time, I think ill go buy a new T shirt and show it off at the movies.
[Mod Edit - personal attacks are not permitted on the MMORPG.com forums]
HE WAS TALKING REAL LIFE!! - MMOs are games - games are about GAMEPLAY. Part of the RPG progression is based on items. If you spend X amount of time on getting it or X amount of money does NOT matter.
What about games that allow you to change looks or genre or even factions ? Are those games not also destroying your "cool looking sword"? PPL could aslo spend ANOTHER 100 days + creating ANOTHER toon after all....
As long as the new sweet boss drops the sword - why the hell do you care how the guy next to you got his sword? If you want to go for the new boss to get it then GO !
I have tried F2P mmos. There is two things that drive me up the wall about them. One is that they are usually too cartoony looking. The second, allot of them have that Korean artistic look and game play that requires allot of grinding...Oh! and dont forget the controls. Some use the arrows rather then the WASD keys for movement and some dont allow you to change them. Not that there is anything wrong with Korean based games. Its just not my type of game. With that said, it will take allot for a F2P game to catch my attention. Will I try another? Probably, when I am bored with all the payed mmos that I am playing, or when things get to tight to keep up a subscription.
"There are also times when I can't help but wonder if such convictions contribute to or even underlie the intensity with which some people object to item sales. The apparent basis is usually the presumption that developing your character by spending more time playing it is the good, right and natural order of the universe. That would mean anything else is somehow less worthy, even outright wrong.”
This mentality comes for people that are not giving things on a silver platter. My father always told me if I want something then I have to go out and earn it for myself. This is were the negativity comes into play, I see a player run by me in a game, I say hey that’s a cool looking sword you got there, they say sweet thanks. I say were did you get it, did it drop off that new sweet boss they released last patch? They respond nope, bought it from the item store. Is this really what MMOs are now? What a waste of time, I think ill go buy a new T shirt and show it off at the movies.
[Mod Edit]
HE WAS TALKING REAL LIFE!! - MMOs are games - games are about GAMEPLAY. Part of the RPG progression is based on items. If you spend X amount of time on getting it or X amount of money does NOT matter.
What about games that allow you to change looks or genre or even factions ? Are those games not also destroying your "cool looking sword"? PPL could aslo spend ANOTHER 100 days + creating ANOTHER toon after all....
As long as the new sweet boss drops the sword - why the hell do you care how the guy next to you got his sword? If you want to go for the new boss to get it then GO !
Probably because it cheapens the point of spending time in the game and trying playing the game to quest for things. Buying things in an item shop isn't playing a game or gameplay. Time is a currency we all have. Some may have it more in spurts than others, but eventually we all have about the same amount. I may have 40 hours this week to spend getting that item, you may have 10 hours a week and take 4 weeks to get it. You may have 100 dollars/month to blow on item shop items that give you an advantage, I may never have that amount to blow in an item shop on a monthly basis. You thus have a distinct advantage once both our game time passes 1 month with me never having a chance to catch you. You, on the other hand, could take a vacation for a week and play way more hours than me and get that "ahead".
I'm not trying to change your mind about playing F2Ps. If it makes you happy, do it by all means. That said, the currency that differences in playing the games "at peak" levels of time versus actual money do create a haves and have nots split in the player base. A split many folks can never hope to come close to competing at.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
"Another terrible column from Mr.Aihoshi, and even more so because he's essentially calling ANYONE with a different opinion than his a "Snob".
Um, that was one other thing I noticed. Isn't calling everyone who feels differently than you a snob, pretty much the definition of a snob? Telling us that we're just too snobbish to understand how amazing F2P games can be and that most of us will try one, some day... THAT was one of the snobbiest things I have ever read from a supposedly professional columnist.
Usually people don't like it when others take a condescending tone, pat them on the head, and tell them they don't REALLY know how they feel, or they're just too dull or "snobbish" to see the light.
Mostly, I'm not so much as a snob, but I'm incredibly shallow. I collect pieces of gear or armor that is useless for me just because it looks cute. I can spend more real life money on cash shops for pretty items or surgery tickets than I ever would in a year with a Pay to play MMORPG. That's one of my favorite things about Free to play MMORPGs. They always include really cute costumes.
I honestly thought you were kidding, until I re-read it and realized you weren't.
Just a viewpoint about items in an MMO that never crossed my mind before, and caused a double take.
I'd put a bed sheet on my Avatar if it gave better stats......
But you are correct, F2P games do have better fluff items (in general) so I can see where that would be a draw.
Who knew?
Guess you've never taken a closer look at the cash shops of games like Swords of the New World, SilkRoad online and Perfect World. There's a lot of nice fluff items in there.
Even as male gamer i enjoy to get these fluff items to make my char look nice and stand out of the crowd
But when a cash shop adds items that really imbalance the game (I mean pre-fab or special weapons & armour), I skip the game. I don't want to be forced to pay to buy items in a cash shop because I'll lost in PvP/PvE if I did not.
And on a sidenote: some games allow gold trading so you can buy the cash-shop currency from the AH for in-game currency. Perfect World allows this, and RoM used to allow it too (not sure if you still can - heard something about fraud and disabling the option)
The f2p model is becoming more appealing with every new p2p release usually sucking ass. Still, the quality of these shitty p2p games are usually much better than their free counterparts. I also don't appreciate the fact that some of these Cash Shops are a total rip off. I was planning on playing Allods, but after reading about their CS, I decided not to waste any time on the game. I'm definitely interested in any f2p that follows GW's model. I wasn't a fan of the game, but I was a fan of their model for sure. I don't hate microtransactions/cash shops, but their prices and items should be fair and reasonable. As long as the quality of f2p games gets better, and microtransactions are fair, I can see most MMOs going that route. These recent p2p games are really not that great. They are better than f2p, but not good enough for me to pay monthly. I'm sure many people can agree on that. Until these p2p companies step it up, I will be on the hunt for a good free game... too bad I can't find one that can hold my attention, yet.
I think you've just hit the nail on the head with this post as to why we are delegated to be called snobs
There is a vast untapped market of people that don't have an enormous amount of time to be playing mmo's due to them having other things to do. Jobs, Social life's, looking after the kids etc. there is a growing trend of mmos that are catering for people that don't want to spend 4 hours + a night playing their favorite game with their friends. we are seeing a more accessible casual style of gaming that doesn't require the "Hard Core" element to be enjoyable. the F2P model caters to this casual aspect of game play very well as it allows people to still enjoy their game without having to put the same amount of time and effort in as the "Hard Core " player would be willing to put in and are actually crying out for.
The "Hard Core" gaming community are seeing less and less choice in their games when looking for a game to play with more and more games that were once p2p converting to ftp or f2p+p2p and it has led to more and more of them venting their views in the community in general which is where the now more prevalent casual community might view them as snobbish but in my personal view it is simply a case that more and more of the "Hard Core" gamers are not being catered for in the mmo market.
ps. the definition of "Hard Core" game is a much debated topic but i used the term to represent the more dedicated gamers, or possibly the most passionate about gamming.
Mostly, I'm not so much as a snob, but I'm incredibly shallow. I collect pieces of gear or armor that is useless for me just because it looks cute. I can spend more real life money on cash shops for pretty items or surgery tickets than I ever would in a year with a Pay to play MMORPG. That's one of my favorite things about Free to play MMORPGs. They always include really cute costumes.
I honestly thought you were kidding, until I re-read it and realized you weren't.
Just a viewpoint about items in an MMO that never crossed my mind before, and caused a double take.
I'd put a bed sheet on my Avatar if it gave better stats......
But you are correct, F2P games do have better fluff items (in general) so I can see where that would be a draw.
Who knew?
I laughed my F__king ass of after reading your response Kyleran!!! I have to admit to ALLMOST falling for the cool costume idea in a ftp. I was playing Requiem and noticed there was a spacesuit for sale. It was only for looks but It did look cool in my book so for the first time ever I pulled out my credit card and was about to buy it when I noticed it couldnt be equiped by the race I was playing. And thank Gawd I noticed that because right after noticing that i found out it was only good for 30 days!!!! I mean holy sheet you spend real money on something that isnt even real and you dont even get to keep it!!!!!! Oh well I agree with the bedsheet and believe me I have had many characters over the years that have felt like they were runing around in a badly made ghost costume at Halloween!!!
BUT!!! I would have purchased that space suit if my race could wear it AND I could keep it.
Probably because it cheapens the point of spending time in the game and trying playing the game to quest for things. Buying things in an item shop isn't playing a game or gameplay. Time is a currency we all have. Some may have it more in spurts than others, but eventually we all have about the same amount. I may have 40 hours this week to spend getting that item, you may have 10 hours a week and take 4 weeks to get it. You may have 100 dollars/month to blow on item shop items that give you an advantage, I may never have that amount to blow in an item shop on a monthly basis. You thus have a distinct advantage once both our game time passes 1 month with me never having a chance to catch you. You, on the other hand, could take a vacation for a week and play way more hours than me and get that "ahead". I'm not trying to change your mind about playing F2Ps. If it makes you happy, do it by all means. That said, the currency that differences in playing the games "at peak" levels of time versus actual money do create a haves and have nots split in the player base. A split many folks can never hope to come close to competing at.
Some ppl have NOTHING but time and 15 USD and they do nothing other than sit infront of a pc for 10 hours per day and belive you me.. those guys are quite further apart than what I could EVER buy in any F2P game. And here is the fact.. these are the so called hardcore MMO gamers that rely 100% on gear to feel superior than others in the game they play. And ofc those guys cry their eyes out when a person that went to work this morning and took a month off from the game is carrying the same gear as they do. Not to mention when he beats them in PVP cause he has actually more skill than they playing the game. If it were not for item shops these no lifers would ofc feel so much better when beating that "nub"...
Hmm what about a P2P sub based game where you pay X amount for 100 hours per month ? And Nothing more ?
Now ... that could actually be a fair game you know... Considering this is what most Asian countries are now doing (limiting time ppl have on the internet" it sounds pretty fair to me.
Someone said it before - Hardcore MMO player is a player that playes WAY more than any normal person will or should EVER do. And thats probably why this article gets alot of negative responses. Cause alot of ppl here consider themselfs to be "hardcore" while in fact they are just spending more time in a stupid game. A game that most normal ppl say... lol ...this is not worth my time - I got better things to do with it.
Still it makes those "hardcores" feel sooo Powerfull- doesn't it ?
Some ppl have NOTHING but time and 15 USD and they do nothing other than sit infront of a pc for 10 hours per day and belive you me.. those guys are quite further apart than what I could EVER buy in any F2P game. And here is the fact.. these are the so called hardcore MMO gamers that rely 100% on gear to feel superior than others in the game they play. And ofc those guys cry their eyes out when a person that went to work this morning and took a month off from the game is carrying the same gear as they do. Not to mention when he beats them in PVP cause he has actually more skill than they playing the game. If it were not for item shops these no lifers would ofc feel so much better when beating that "nub"...
Well, I'd doubt these "no lifers" as you call them are even playing a free to play because if they were "hardcore" they'd know you can't be the best without spending money and according to your illustration they don't work so they'd know they can't compete. In the games they are playing I'd doubt first you could buy items from a shop (only way would be through illegal gold farmers) and they'd ("no lifers") would probably be alot tougher than you describe as they spend more time playing the game (instead of buying the game) and learning how things work.
If not working or at school or taking care of the many other responsibilities I have I'm gaming. Even with my personal and community responsibilities (I volunteer with a youth organization) I still find time to play 30 plus hours a week. Mostly because I spend any free time I have gaming as I no longer fancy bars and other so called "adult" activities that I'd end up spending way more on than in a cash shop. That said, I'd most assuredly switch to those adult hobbies (more hunting and fishing and camping, etc.) and their expenses than pay for items in a cash shop. Hey, at least with those I get to keep an item that I can actually do something with in the real world (since I'm spending real world cash for an item and not a service which is what P2P are(a service)).
[Mod Edit]
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Hmm what about a P2P sub based game where you pay X amount for 100 hours per month ? And Nothing more ? Now ... that could actually be a fair game you know... Considering this is what most Asian countries are now doing (limiting time ppl have on the internet" it sounds pretty fair to me. Someone said it before - Hardcore MMO player is a player that playes WAY more than any normal person will or should EVER do. And thats probably why this article gets alot of negative responses. Cause alot of ppl here consider themselfs to be "hardcore" while in fact they are just spending more time in a stupid game. A game that most normal ppl say... lol ...this is not worth my time - I got better things to do with it. Still it makes those "hardcores" feel sooo Powerfull- doesn't it ?
I play typically 30+ hours a week as I mentioned above. This wouldn't work for me as 1) I play more than that and 2) I don't like the idea of having a "minutes" ticker hanging over my head like with a cell phone. I mean, do my minutes roll over to next month, lol? Yeah, those are questions I'd rather not deal with. Plus, even though it's not that big of a deal, I'd still rather not have to log out to save minutes to go check on my baby (or dogs, or cats) or to use the bathroom just to conserve minutes.
I just like the idea of a flat monthly fee for a service provided. I like the idea that if a company wants "extra" money then they can come up with a box (expansion) of content and sell it to me for a one time price. And I keep it (virtually) forever. One issue I have with item malls is that many of the useful items have time periods attached to them so that after a month or two you have to buy them again.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Another terrible column from Mr.Aihoshi, and even more so because he's essentially calling ANYONE with a different opinion than his a "Snob".
The FACT is, like another poster mentioned, you get what you pay for. Free games are NEVER "free", and 9/10 will cause you to spend MORE money to get the SAME basic services that pay to play gives for a FIXED amount per month.
"Free to Play", or microtransactions, interested the DEVIL of the MMORPG market for a reason (AKA: John Smedley). Microtransactions actually show a marketable profitability FAR greater than monthly payments. This is because small payments towards a final goal add up, but not before a person actually realizes how much they're spending per month. I know this first hand since I used to have a roommate with a gambling problem and ended up losing more than $100/mo to SOE's trading card games in EQ2. Needless to say he couldn't pay his part of the rent, and I had to kick him out !
Heres the deal mister. PPL are free to pay as much or as little that they like in F2P. If they can't handle it cause of gamblin problem or addiction - dont think that SUb based will save them cause they will just waste their TIME instead. Playing your life away like many do in the sub based game is in many ways worse. Alot of young ppl are right now PLAYING their life away in sub based games - skipping school - skipping homework - not getting a job. Hell... many of them will never even get an apartment.
Free to play gives players options if they want to play for Xtra amount of time to get items - or just buy them (like EXPpotions). Alot of the low lifes that sit infront of a pc 10 hours per day hate this idea cause it actually gives real ppl that have jobs and take part in real life a chance to progress with the money the EARN with their job.
So people are free to pay as much or as little as the want in F2P but you can't allow them to spend as little or as much time they want in an P2P? I knew people back when I played WoW that would do the 40 man raids and they had jobs, family etc, so if they can make time others can at least try to. One person comes to mine, his character was named skullcrusher and he was our main raid tank (damn good one imo), he also has 4 children, and a demanding job (EMT). No he didn't neglect his family or anything like that, I meet him once (Guild had a party in real life to meet) so I knew he wasn't full of BS about what he did.
You make yourself sound like in instant gratification person, because you see subscription games as wasting time to actually earn items. People only waste their lives in P2P and not F2P.. that is a good one. Plus can you link to anything that shows that a lot of people are wasting their lives away in mmos? No those anti-gaming PC thug "studies" don't count. Sure some of the already mentally unstable people might be, which to me is evolution at work.. these people won't be breeding ( hopefully).
You last statement is the most over used, hateful and yet funniest statement that pro F2P people like yourself love to use. So let me get this straight you have to spend extra money on things in a game to keep (progress) up with "losers"? lol....
Why does it matter if somebody buys it and somebody earns it? Simple, the people who got the item via learning how to actually play their class and so forth. I talked to people in WoW that wanted to buy tier gear and yet they said they never had any intention to raid or even do heroics. What that says to me again is instant gratification and its not really the "hardcore" wanting to e-peen, its people like those cause why else would they need the tier gear? No the "I pay 15 a month" does not mean you are ENTITLED to everything..
But I'll add that I think F2P games are fine. Item shop isn't as bad as people think. I think 40 man raids for a chance drop at something is just as toolriffic a way for people to gather items. Are you really earning anything by dealing with that BS?
All in all if a game has a good design and I like playing, I could give 2 squirting craps about it's $$$ making scheme.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Well, I'd doubt these "no lifers" as you call them are even playing a free to play because if they were "hardcore" they'd know you can't be the best without spending money and according to your illustration they don't work so they'd know they can't compete. In the games they are playing I'd doubt first you could buy items from a shop (only way would be through illegal gold farmers) and they'd ("no lifers") would probably be alot tougher than you describe as they spend more time playing the game (instead of buying the game) and learning how things work. If not working or at school or taking care of the many other responsibilities I have I'm gaming. Even with my personal and community responsibilities (I volunteer with a youth organization) I still find time to play 30 plus hours a week. Mostly because I spend any free time I have gaming as I no longer fancy bars and other so called "adult" activities that I'd end up spending way more on than in a cash shop. That said, I'd most assuredly switch to those adult hobbies (more hunting and fishing and camping, etc.) and their expenses than pay for items in a cash shop. Hey, at least with those I get to keep an item that I can actually do something with in the real world (since I'm spending real world cash for an item and not a service which is what P2P are(a service)).
I think you finally got it
Yes NoLifers do not like Item shops cause it gives those ppl that play far less a chance to actually progress their character AND enjoy other social activities.
Alot of ppl say .. oh I stopped going to the bar and Im playing a game instead so... - Forgetting that alot of these guys drink and eat all sort of shit while playing. At least if they would go to the bar they would actually stand up once in a while... even dance... or meet a person to ..... well .... really move their ARSE
To be fair.. I go game hunting and fishing - and play golf 2-3 time per month. I have decent equipment and Yes... its worth it for X amount of time - before I buy new one. I could aslo spend 10 times as much money on these items but they would not give me that much more enjoyment - ofc if I consider the ACTIVITES to be what Im really after - instead of looking on the gun that my m8 bought (did not drop from a monster you know) - and hes a really bad shooter. It doesn't give him that much advantage when we go together hunting you know...
I played ROM recently and bought myself a EXP housing items so that I gain extra experience bonus while I am logged out. I dont see how that is destroying the game for anyone else ? It just gives me more time to go hunting instead of sitting infront of a stupid MMO game thinking I will actually be any less of a looser if I hold an item that took me 10 months to get.
I will never (*) play a subscription-based MMOG again.
This makes me a -- reverse snob? Something along those lines, surely.
It's not so much the paying I mind. It's the "paying while not playing" that I mind. It's the fact that I take little breaks from games. Those breaks last anywhere from 2-6 months, depending on travel/work schedule and general mood. Sure, I could just unsubscribe and resubscribe. Just that the breaks aren't that predictable, or even planned. They just happen.
It completely ruined EvE for me, and before that EQ2 and before that CoH. I get emotional about the $90 that just went down the drain, just because I took a half-year breather.
F2P - DDO in this case - hasn't been any cheaper for me so far than subscription. And I feel happier in the knowledge that I can stop acquiring content tomorrow, and just play - or not play - the game without paying, without that "but you're paying for it" nag.
There's another medium that did the same to me, and it got on my nerves: Cable TV. So now it's basic, $5/month, mainly because the kids like it, and so I can watch whoever happens to be president a given year speak his/her yearly address.
I like paying for stuff I use, when I use it. I hate paying for stuff just so I could potentially use it at some point.
(*) Until $15/month is a truly negligible amount. Meaning I'll have at least $10k/month disposable. Not any time soon. Or, you know, ever.
I think you finally got it Yes NoLifers do not like Item shops cause it gives those ppl that play far less a chance to actually progress their character AND enjoy other social activities. Alot of ppl say .. oh I stopped going to the bar and Im playing a game instead so... - Forgetting that alot of these guys drink and eat all sort of shit while playing. At least if they would go to the bar they would actually stand up once in a while... even dance... or meet a person to ..... well .... really move their ARSE To be fair.. I go game hunting and fishing - and play golf 2-3 time per month. I have decent equipment and Yes... its worth it for X amount of time - before I buy new one. I could aslo spend 10 times as much money on these items but they would not give me that much more enjoyment - ofc if I consider the ACTIVITES to be what Im really after - instead of looking on the gun that my m8 bought (did not drop from a monster you know) - and hes a really bad shooter. It doesn't give him that much advantage when we go together hunting you know... I played ROM recently and bought myself a EXP housing items so that I gain extra experience bonus while I am logged out. I dont see how that is destroying the game for anyone else ? It just gives me more time to go hunting instead of sitting infront of a stupid MMO game thinking I will actually be any less of a looser if I hold an item that took me 10 months to get.
Why do you even play MMO? Why not try single players? It seems like you just dont have enough time for them in your busy life. Leave the MMO community to the hardcore gamers, and go play with yourself.
Hmm what about a P2P sub based game where you pay X amount for 100 hours per month ? And Nothing more ? Now ... that could actually be a fair game you know... Considering this is what most Asian countries are now doing (limiting time ppl have on the internet" it sounds pretty fair to me. Someone said it before - Hardcore MMO player is a player that playes WAY more than any normal person will or should EVER do. And thats probably why this article gets alot of negative responses. Cause alot of ppl here consider themselfs to be "hardcore" while in fact they are just spending more time in a stupid game. A game that most normal ppl say... lol ...this is not worth my time - I got better things to do with it. Still it makes those "hardcores" feel sooo Powerfull- doesn't it ?
Actually there are many different meanings for what hardcore means and yet you go with the stereotypical worse one of them all.. no surprise there.. A hardcore to me is somebody who loves gaming and likes a challenge in their games, which you know is basically the point any in game.
Pathetic Blog sorry but it has to be said. Calling the Class card to get a rise interesting.
Was that F2P with micro transactions, shame on you......
And no I won't play F2P, Because the communities are even more childish and pathatic than the P2P MMOs....... I play a number of game that don't cost a cent but teh communities are small work together an have fun and no I won't list what I am playing.
Why would I wan''t the twisted community here to ruin my fun...
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I will never (*) play a subscription-based MMOG again.
This makes me a -- reverse snob? Something along those lines, surely. It's not so much the paying I mind. It's the "paying while not playing" that I mind. It's the fact that I take little breaks from games. Those breaks last anywhere from 2-6 months, depending on travel/work schedule and general mood. Sure, I could just unsubscribe and resubscribe. Just that the breaks aren't that predictable, or even planned. They just happen. It completely ruined EvE for me, and before that EQ2 and before that CoH. I get emotional about the $90 that just went down the drain, just because I took a half-year breather. F2P - DDO in this case - hasn't been any cheaper for me so far than subscription. And I feel happier in the knowledge that I can stop acquiring content tomorrow, and just play - or not play - the game without paying, without that "but you're paying for it" nag. There's another medium that did the same to me, and it got on my nerves: Cable TV. So now it's basic, $5/month, mainly because the kids like it, and so I can watch whoever happens to be president a given year speak his/her yearly address. I like paying for stuff I use, when I use it. I hate paying for stuff just so I could potentially use it at some point.
(*) Until $15/month is a truly negligible amount. Meaning I'll have at least $10k/month disposable. Not any time soon. Or, you know, ever.
I say this is a reasonable action really. I play subscription based MMOs while also playing the pay for content as I go in rounds because I get bored rather quickly with games in general now. (Going to be 29 in a couple of weeks, soon I'll be shoveling things for the fun of it and telling kids to get jobs.) Regardless, DDO and Wizards 101 and their 'pay for it when you get there' method has sucked me in. Both games have great content, add it regularly, and I don't feel like I'm wasting time when I'm away for 3 weeks here, 6 weeks there, and so on with real life crap.
Hope other companies are paying attention to it. I think the era of 11 million 14.99 subs coming in may be over just due to competition.
Get a hook to keep people coming back and paying.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Another terrible column from Mr.Aihoshi, and even more so because he's essentially calling ANYONE with a different opinion than his a "Snob".
The FACT is, like another poster mentioned, you get what you pay for. Free games are NEVER "free", and 9/10 will cause you to spend MORE money to get the SAME basic services that pay to play gives for a FIXED amount per month.
"Free to Play", or microtransactions, interested the DEVIL of the MMORPG market for a reason (AKA: John Smedley). Microtransactions actually show a marketable profitability FAR greater than monthly payments. This is because small payments towards a final goal add up, but not before a person actually realizes how much they're spending per month. I know this first hand since I used to have a roommate with a gambling problem and ended up losing more than $100/mo to SOE's trading card games in EQ2. Needless to say he couldn't pay his part of the rent, and I had to kick him out !
Heres the deal mister. PPL are free to pay as much or as little that they like in F2P. If they can't handle it cause of gamblin problem or addiction - dont think that SUb based will save them cause they will just waste their TIME instead. Playing your life away like many do in the sub based game is in many ways worse. Alot of young ppl are right now PLAYING their life away in sub based games - skipping school - skipping homework - not getting a job. Hell... many of them will never even get an apartment.
Free to play gives players options if they want to play for Xtra amount of time to get items - or just buy them (like EXPpotions). Alot of the low lifes that sit infront of a pc 10 hours per day hate this idea cause it actually gives real ppl that have jobs and take part in real life a chance to progress with the money the EARN with their job.
So people are free to pay as much or as little as the want in F2P but you can't allow them to spend as little or as much time they want in an P2P? I knew people back when I played WoW that would do the 40 man raids and they had jobs, family etc, so if they can make time others can at least try to. One person comes to mine, his character was named skullcrusher and he was our main raid tank (damn good one imo), he also has 4 children, and a demanding job (EMT). No he didn't neglect his family or anything like that, I meet him once (Guild had a party in real life to meet) so I knew he wasn't full of BS about what he did.
You make yourself sound like in instant gratification person, because you see subscription games as wasting time to actually earn items. People only waste their lives in P2P and not F2P.. that is a good one. Plus can you link to anything that shows that a lot of people are wasting their lives away in mmos? No those anti-gaming PC thug "studies" don't count. Sure some of the already mentally unstable people might be, which to me is evolution at work.. these people won't be breeding ( hopefully).
You last statement is the most over used, hateful and yet funniest statement that pro F2P people like yourself love to use. So let me get this straight you have to spend extra money on things in a game to keep (progress) up with "losers"? lol....
Why does it matter if somebody buys it and somebody earns it? Simple, the people who got the item via learning how to actually play their class and so forth. I talked to people in WoW that wanted to buy tier gear and yet they said they never had any intention to raid or even do heroics. What that says to me again is instant gratification and its not really the "hardcore" wanting to e-peen, its people like those cause why else would they need the tier gear? No the "I pay 15 a month" does not mean you are ENTITLED to everything..
Just wanted to point out I played all raiding content in Vanilla WOW and TBC. Im not a f2p person but hell - Im not so snob to think Im more of a epen if I play more or less than others. And belvie you me - there was nothing Epen about playing a paladin in Vanilla WOW - where the only job in early 40 man raid was to buff 40 ppl every 3-4 mins.. And stand out of combat to ress those that died ;Þ (until Blizzard fixed that )
There is nothing better or worse about f2p. Thats my point. just like it was the point of the OP. Its just another way of buisness... Just like p2p earn their money on hyping up a game and selling shitloads of pre-orders before ppl realise they would never have payed for the game if they had the chance go try it before....
Comments
“They seem to imply that F2P players are inferior or second-rate in some manner”
I have to disagree with this statement, F2P models are really second-rate games. They don’t have the financial support as most of the subscription games do, which in turn is the result of a C class game. I can’t say that I’ve NEVER played a F2P game, I’m guilty. I gave two a shot, Runes of Magic and Shaiya, unfortunately they both left a bad taste in my mouth. Runes of Magic was the better of the two, it is a clone of World of Warcraft even the action bar is almost identical. What I didn’t like was the quality, its animation was stiff, and the world was cramped. Textures seem bland, the towns are all the same, like hubs of NPCs for quests, and almost everything is a kill task. I got bored with it around lvl34, (There was a bugged quest I couldn’t complete) took me 4 days to get there. Then I tried Shaiya, that lasted a few hours, I liked the characters but the world seemed empty not enough quests, not enough things to do and literally no social contact. My personal experience would rate these two F2P games as substandard quality for the years they were released. One can argue with this saying that I didn’t give them enough time, but honestly they couldn’t hold my interest.
"There are also times when I can't help but wonder if such convictions contribute to or even underlie the intensity with which some people object to item sales. The apparent basis is usually the presumption that developing your character by spending more time playing it is the good, right and natural order of the universe. That would mean anything else is somehow less worthy, even outright wrong.”
This mentality comes for people that are not giving things on a silver platter. My father always told me if I want something then I have to go out and earn it for myself. This is were the negativity comes into play, I see a player run by me in a game, I say hey that’s a cool looking sword you got there, they say sweet thanks. I say were did you get it, did it drop off that new sweet boss they released last patch? They respond nope, bought it from the item store. Is this really what MMOs are now? What a waste of time, I think ill go buy a new T shirt and show it off at the movies.
How much does it really mater that china has more MMO players than the US does? We still drink our beer and they drink their sake. That’s when it comes down to quality; do you want MMO filled with lead? Blizzard is a perfect example of quality and that’s all American. If I’m a snob for being the way I am, then you sir are too open minded and give to much credit to were its not worth.
Heres the deal mister. PPL are free to pay as much or as little that they like in F2P. If they can't handle it cause of gamblin problem or addiction - dont think that SUb based will save them cause they will just waste their TIME instead. Playing your life away like many do in the sub based game is in many ways worse. Alot of young ppl are right now PLAYING their life away in sub based games - skipping school - skipping homework - not getting a job. Hell... many of them will never even get an apartment.
Free to play gives players options if they want to play for Xtra amount of time to get items - or just buy them (like EXPpotions). Alot of the low lifes that sit infront of a pc 10 hours per day hate this idea cause it actually gives real ppl that have jobs and take part in real life a chance to progress with the money the EARN with their job.
Uhmmm, a lot of kiddos play in F2P games - average age is much lower there from P2P games. Usually kidos don't have cash/credit card for P2P games. I'm not rude, that's a fact. Besides, playing P2P games are not forcing me to play 24/7... I don't understand from where you get that info but I laughed hard reading it. "Hell... many of them will never even get an apartment." Ohhh my, paying for a game $15 month won't get you apartment
With all due respect, please take a look at what was said there. The author didn't say he SUPPORTED those things. he was also not in any way COMPARING those things. He named a number of hot button issues about which many people have deep rooted beliefs that aren't likely to change. If you didn't take the time to understand the context of what was said, that's your call but it's your own fault and not the author's.
Well, His (author's) articles don't really "say" anything and he always resorts to insulting what seems to be the larger portion of this site's membership. If he has to resort to using such examples to in an effort to make a point I'd question his writing ability, personally. I could have made the same point without taking it to such extremes.
Full disclosure in that I haven't given any merit to a single article this guy has written for this site. My opinion is you'd do better to find a columnist to represent F2P games that didn't have an axe to grind against anyone who doesn't like them and is giddy with having a public forum on the front door of those people in which to insult them on a weekly basis.
Yes, you are right. He didn't compare those thing verbatim. Why bring them up then. He sure compared the strength of the "I'll never play F2P MMOs" sentiment to those others. I'm pretty sure the multitudes of your readers who have that opinion/view don't appreciate being it compared in the line with bigots, infant death and murder. I know that if I made such comments about Aihoshi or any other member here I'd probably get banned forever.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Heres the deal mister. PPL are free to pay as much or as little that they like in F2P. If they can't handle it cause of gamblin problem or addiction - dont think that SUb based will save them cause they will just waste their TIME instead. Playing your life away like many do in the sub based game is in many ways worse. Alot of young ppl are right now PLAYING their life away in sub based games - skipping school - skipping homework - not getting a job. Hell... many of them will never even get an apartment.
Free to play gives players options if they want to play for Xtra amount of time to get items - or just buy them (like EXPpotions). Alot of the low lifes that sit infront of a pc 10 hours per day hate this idea cause it actually gives real ppl that have jobs and take part in real life a chance to progress with the money the EARN with their job.
On the contrary, it gives players with EXPENDABLE amounts of $$ to choose how MUCH they'd like to spend. Fairly often than not, it's never how little the player WANTS to pay for their subscription. If you pay NOTHING, or bare minimum (normally $16.99 for the same monthly benefits as a $14.99 sub game) you aren't getting as much as the guy shelling our $40/mo for the same product, just a WHOLE lot less. What this does is imbalances the game and allows people with MORE money to get MORE than any other player who doesn't. This is the inevitable flaw of "F2P" games, and this is the dispicable part of the whole debacle.
The facts still stand, Free to Play IS NOT actually free, and is more often several times more expensive with little return.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Pretty much this. Although I have played F2P games, and have seen the difference injections of $/£/€ make to the play experience. Didn't make me stop playing, didn't bother me unduly. I think what most people are after is transparency.
Either you pay a flat rate and have access to all content (including weapons, skills, pots etc.), or you pay nothing and pay to access content/exp buffs/armor sets/mounts etc. etc. What's annoying so many people is the bleed through from F2P where all of this is understandable (they have to make money somehow) into P2P where they are already making money from subs fees.
Is it "snobbish" to call companies out for being greedy? Is the furor over the perfume in the Allods shop based on some sort of elitism? Hardly.
To lump those upset about forced RMTs in P2P games with those who have the "I'll never play a F2P game" mindset is just laziness, and implies that everyone except Richard is a snob, because we don't fully appreciate the area he has chosen to work in.
As the old saw goes, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar", so maybe next time tone down the vitriol and explain why we should all love F2P games, that should make a more interesting read than this rant, and it may actually make a difference.
Just my €0.02
[Mod Edit - personal attacks are not permitted on the MMORPG.com forums]
HE WAS TALKING REAL LIFE!! - MMOs are games - games are about GAMEPLAY. Part of the RPG progression is based on items. If you spend X amount of time on getting it or X amount of money does NOT matter.
What about games that allow you to change looks or genre or even factions ? Are those games not also destroying your "cool looking sword"? PPL could aslo spend ANOTHER 100 days + creating ANOTHER toon after all....
As long as the new sweet boss drops the sword - why the hell do you care how the guy next to you got his sword? If you want to go for the new boss to get it then GO !
I have tried F2P mmos. There is two things that drive me up the wall about them. One is that they are usually too cartoony looking. The second, allot of them have that Korean artistic look and game play that requires allot of grinding...Oh! and dont forget the controls. Some use the arrows rather then the WASD keys for movement and some dont allow you to change them. Not that there is anything wrong with Korean based games. Its just not my type of game. With that said, it will take allot for a F2P game to catch my attention. Will I try another? Probably, when I am bored with all the payed mmos that I am playing, or when things get to tight to keep up a subscription.
[Mod Edit]
HE WAS TALKING REAL LIFE!! - MMOs are games - games are about GAMEPLAY. Part of the RPG progression is based on items. If you spend X amount of time on getting it or X amount of money does NOT matter.
What about games that allow you to change looks or genre or even factions ? Are those games not also destroying your "cool looking sword"? PPL could aslo spend ANOTHER 100 days + creating ANOTHER toon after all....
As long as the new sweet boss drops the sword - why the hell do you care how the guy next to you got his sword? If you want to go for the new boss to get it then GO !
Probably because it cheapens the point of spending time in the game and trying playing the game to quest for things. Buying things in an item shop isn't playing a game or gameplay. Time is a currency we all have. Some may have it more in spurts than others, but eventually we all have about the same amount. I may have 40 hours this week to spend getting that item, you may have 10 hours a week and take 4 weeks to get it. You may have 100 dollars/month to blow on item shop items that give you an advantage, I may never have that amount to blow in an item shop on a monthly basis. You thus have a distinct advantage once both our game time passes 1 month with me never having a chance to catch you. You, on the other hand, could take a vacation for a week and play way more hours than me and get that "ahead".
I'm not trying to change your mind about playing F2Ps. If it makes you happy, do it by all means. That said, the currency that differences in playing the games "at peak" levels of time versus actual money do create a haves and have nots split in the player base. A split many folks can never hope to come close to competing at.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Quote from Facebomb:
"Another terrible column from Mr.Aihoshi, and even more so because he's essentially calling ANYONE with a different opinion than his a "Snob".
Um, that was one other thing I noticed. Isn't calling everyone who feels differently than you a snob, pretty much the definition of a snob? Telling us that we're just too snobbish to understand how amazing F2P games can be and that most of us will try one, some day... THAT was one of the snobbiest things I have ever read from a supposedly professional columnist.
Usually people don't like it when others take a condescending tone, pat them on the head, and tell them they don't REALLY know how they feel, or they're just too dull or "snobbish" to see the light.
Hypocrite, much?
I honestly thought you were kidding, until I re-read it and realized you weren't.
Just a viewpoint about items in an MMO that never crossed my mind before, and caused a double take.
I'd put a bed sheet on my Avatar if it gave better stats......
But you are correct, F2P games do have better fluff items (in general) so I can see where that would be a draw.
Who knew?
Guess you've never taken a closer look at the cash shops of games like Swords of the New World, SilkRoad online and Perfect World. There's a lot of nice fluff items in there.
Even as male gamer i enjoy to get these fluff items to make my char look nice and stand out of the crowd
But when a cash shop adds items that really imbalance the game (I mean pre-fab or special weapons & armour), I skip the game. I don't want to be forced to pay to buy items in a cash shop because I'll lost in PvP/PvE if I did not.
And on a sidenote: some games allow gold trading so you can buy the cash-shop currency from the AH for in-game currency. Perfect World allows this, and RoM used to allow it too (not sure if you still can - heard something about fraud and disabling the option)
I think you've just hit the nail on the head with this post as to why we are delegated to be called snobs
There is a vast untapped market of people that don't have an enormous amount of time to be playing mmo's due to them having other things to do. Jobs, Social life's, looking after the kids etc. there is a growing trend of mmos that are catering for people that don't want to spend 4 hours + a night playing their favorite game with their friends. we are seeing a more accessible casual style of gaming that doesn't require the "Hard Core" element to be enjoyable. the F2P model caters to this casual aspect of game play very well as it allows people to still enjoy their game without having to put the same amount of time and effort in as the "Hard Core " player would be willing to put in and are actually crying out for.
The "Hard Core" gaming community are seeing less and less choice in their games when looking for a game to play with more and more games that were once p2p converting to ftp or f2p+p2p and it has led to more and more of them venting their views in the community in general which is where the now more prevalent casual community might view them as snobbish but in my personal view it is simply a case that more and more of the "Hard Core" gamers are not being catered for in the mmo market.
ps. the definition of "Hard Core" game is a much debated topic but i used the term to represent the more dedicated gamers, or possibly the most passionate about gamming.
I honestly thought you were kidding, until I re-read it and realized you weren't.
Just a viewpoint about items in an MMO that never crossed my mind before, and caused a double take.
I'd put a bed sheet on my Avatar if it gave better stats......
But you are correct, F2P games do have better fluff items (in general) so I can see where that would be a draw.
Who knew?
I laughed my F__king ass of after reading your response Kyleran!!! I have to admit to ALLMOST falling for the cool costume idea in a ftp. I was playing Requiem and noticed there was a spacesuit for sale. It was only for looks but It did look cool in my book so for the first time ever I pulled out my credit card and was about to buy it when I noticed it couldnt be equiped by the race I was playing. And thank Gawd I noticed that because right after noticing that i found out it was only good for 30 days!!!! I mean holy sheet you spend real money on something that isnt even real and you dont even get to keep it!!!!!! Oh well I agree with the bedsheet and believe me I have had many characters over the years that have felt like they were runing around in a badly made ghost costume at Halloween!!!
BUT!!! I would have purchased that space suit if my race could wear it AND I could keep it.
Some ppl have NOTHING but time and 15 USD and they do nothing other than sit infront of a pc for 10 hours per day and belive you me.. those guys are quite further apart than what I could EVER buy in any F2P game. And here is the fact.. these are the so called hardcore MMO gamers that rely 100% on gear to feel superior than others in the game they play. And ofc those guys cry their eyes out when a person that went to work this morning and took a month off from the game is carrying the same gear as they do. Not to mention when he beats them in PVP cause he has actually more skill than they playing the game. If it were not for item shops these no lifers would ofc feel so much better when beating that "nub"...
[Mod Edit]
Hmm what about a P2P sub based game where you pay X amount for 100 hours per month ? And Nothing more ?
Now ... that could actually be a fair game you know... Considering this is what most Asian countries are now doing (limiting time ppl have on the internet" it sounds pretty fair to me.
Someone said it before - Hardcore MMO player is a player that playes WAY more than any normal person will or should EVER do. And thats probably why this article gets alot of negative responses. Cause alot of ppl here consider themselfs to be "hardcore" while in fact they are just spending more time in a stupid game. A game that most normal ppl say... lol ...this is not worth my time - I got better things to do with it.
Still it makes those "hardcores" feel sooo Powerfull- doesn't it ?
Well, I'd doubt these "no lifers" as you call them are even playing a free to play because if they were "hardcore" they'd know you can't be the best without spending money and according to your illustration they don't work so they'd know they can't compete. In the games they are playing I'd doubt first you could buy items from a shop (only way would be through illegal gold farmers) and they'd ("no lifers") would probably be alot tougher than you describe as they spend more time playing the game (instead of buying the game) and learning how things work.
If not working or at school or taking care of the many other responsibilities I have I'm gaming. Even with my personal and community responsibilities (I volunteer with a youth organization) I still find time to play 30 plus hours a week. Mostly because I spend any free time I have gaming as I no longer fancy bars and other so called "adult" activities that I'd end up spending way more on than in a cash shop. That said, I'd most assuredly switch to those adult hobbies (more hunting and fishing and camping, etc.) and their expenses than pay for items in a cash shop. Hey, at least with those I get to keep an item that I can actually do something with in the real world (since I'm spending real world cash for an item and not a service which is what P2P are(a service)).
[Mod Edit]
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I play typically 30+ hours a week as I mentioned above. This wouldn't work for me as 1) I play more than that and 2) I don't like the idea of having a "minutes" ticker hanging over my head like with a cell phone. I mean, do my minutes roll over to next month, lol? Yeah, those are questions I'd rather not deal with. Plus, even though it's not that big of a deal, I'd still rather not have to log out to save minutes to go check on my baby (or dogs, or cats) or to use the bathroom just to conserve minutes.
I just like the idea of a flat monthly fee for a service provided. I like the idea that if a company wants "extra" money then they can come up with a box (expansion) of content and sell it to me for a one time price. And I keep it (virtually) forever. One issue I have with item malls is that many of the useful items have time periods attached to them so that after a month or two you have to buy them again.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Heres the deal mister. PPL are free to pay as much or as little that they like in F2P. If they can't handle it cause of gamblin problem or addiction - dont think that SUb based will save them cause they will just waste their TIME instead. Playing your life away like many do in the sub based game is in many ways worse. Alot of young ppl are right now PLAYING their life away in sub based games - skipping school - skipping homework - not getting a job. Hell... many of them will never even get an apartment.
Free to play gives players options if they want to play for Xtra amount of time to get items - or just buy them (like EXPpotions). Alot of the low lifes that sit infront of a pc 10 hours per day hate this idea cause it actually gives real ppl that have jobs and take part in real life a chance to progress with the money the EARN with their job.
So people are free to pay as much or as little as the want in F2P but you can't allow them to spend as little or as much time they want in an P2P? I knew people back when I played WoW that would do the 40 man raids and they had jobs, family etc, so if they can make time others can at least try to. One person comes to mine, his character was named skullcrusher and he was our main raid tank (damn good one imo), he also has 4 children, and a demanding job (EMT). No he didn't neglect his family or anything like that, I meet him once (Guild had a party in real life to meet) so I knew he wasn't full of BS about what he did.
You make yourself sound like in instant gratification person, because you see subscription games as wasting time to actually earn items. People only waste their lives in P2P and not F2P.. that is a good one. Plus can you link to anything that shows that a lot of people are wasting their lives away in mmos? No those anti-gaming PC thug "studies" don't count. Sure some of the already mentally unstable people might be, which to me is evolution at work.. these people won't be breeding ( hopefully).
You last statement is the most over used, hateful and yet funniest statement that pro F2P people like yourself love to use. So let me get this straight you have to spend extra money on things in a game to keep (progress) up with "losers"? lol....
Why does it matter if somebody buys it and somebody earns it? Simple, the people who got the item via learning how to actually play their class and so forth. I talked to people in WoW that wanted to buy tier gear and yet they said they never had any intention to raid or even do heroics. What that says to me again is instant gratification and its not really the "hardcore" wanting to e-peen, its people like those cause why else would they need the tier gear? No the "I pay 15 a month" does not mean you are ENTITLED to everything..
Yes.
Yes I am.
But I'll add that I think F2P games are fine. Item shop isn't as bad as people think. I think 40 man raids for a chance drop at something is just as toolriffic a way for people to gather items. Are you really earning anything by dealing with that BS?
All in all if a game has a good design and I like playing, I could give 2 squirting craps about it's $$$ making scheme.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
I think you finally got it
Yes NoLifers do not like Item shops cause it gives those ppl that play far less a chance to actually progress their character AND enjoy other social activities.
Alot of ppl say .. oh I stopped going to the bar and Im playing a game instead so... - Forgetting that alot of these guys drink and eat all sort of shit while playing. At least if they would go to the bar they would actually stand up once in a while... even dance... or meet a person to ..... well .... really move their ARSE
To be fair.. I go game hunting and fishing - and play golf 2-3 time per month. I have decent equipment and Yes... its worth it for X amount of time - before I buy new one. I could aslo spend 10 times as much money on these items but they would not give me that much more enjoyment - ofc if I consider the ACTIVITES to be what Im really after - instead of looking on the gun that my m8 bought (did not drop from a monster you know) - and hes a really bad shooter. It doesn't give him that much advantage when we go together hunting you know...
I played ROM recently and bought myself a EXP housing items so that I gain extra experience bonus while I am logged out. I dont see how that is destroying the game for anyone else ? It just gives me more time to go hunting instead of sitting infront of a stupid MMO game thinking I will actually be any less of a looser if I hold an item that took me 10 months to get.
[Mod Edit]
I will never (*) play a subscription-based MMOG again.
This makes me a -- reverse snob? Something along those lines, surely.
It's not so much the paying I mind. It's the "paying while not playing" that I mind. It's the fact that I take little breaks from games. Those breaks last anywhere from 2-6 months, depending on travel/work schedule and general mood. Sure, I could just unsubscribe and resubscribe. Just that the breaks aren't that predictable, or even planned. They just happen.
It completely ruined EvE for me, and before that EQ2 and before that CoH. I get emotional about the $90 that just went down the drain, just because I took a half-year breather.
F2P - DDO in this case - hasn't been any cheaper for me so far than subscription. And I feel happier in the knowledge that I can stop acquiring content tomorrow, and just play - or not play - the game without paying, without that "but you're paying for it" nag.
There's another medium that did the same to me, and it got on my nerves: Cable TV. So now it's basic, $5/month, mainly because the kids like it, and so I can watch whoever happens to be president a given year speak his/her yearly address.
I like paying for stuff I use, when I use it. I hate paying for stuff just so I could potentially use it at some point.
(*) Until $15/month is a truly negligible amount. Meaning I'll have at least $10k/month disposable. Not any time soon. Or, you know, ever.
Why do you even play MMO? Why not try single players? It seems like you just dont have enough time for them in your busy life. Leave the MMO community to the hardcore gamers, and go play with yourself.
[Mod Edit]
Actually there are many different meanings for what hardcore means and yet you go with the stereotypical worse one of them all.. no surprise there.. A hardcore to me is somebody who loves gaming and likes a challenge in their games, which you know is basically the point any in game.
Pathetic Blog sorry but it has to be said. Calling the Class card to get a rise interesting.
Was that F2P with micro transactions, shame on you......
And no I won't play F2P, Because the communities are even more childish and pathatic than the P2P MMOs....... I play a number of game that don't cost a cent but teh communities are small work together an have fun and no I won't list what I am playing.
Why would I wan''t the twisted community here to ruin my fun...
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I say this is a reasonable action really. I play subscription based MMOs while also playing the pay for content as I go in rounds because I get bored rather quickly with games in general now. (Going to be 29 in a couple of weeks, soon I'll be shoveling things for the fun of it and telling kids to get jobs.) Regardless, DDO and Wizards 101 and their 'pay for it when you get there' method has sucked me in. Both games have great content, add it regularly, and I don't feel like I'm wasting time when I'm away for 3 weeks here, 6 weeks there, and so on with real life crap.
Hope other companies are paying attention to it. I think the era of 11 million 14.99 subs coming in may be over just due to competition.
Get a hook to keep people coming back and paying.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Heres the deal mister. PPL are free to pay as much or as little that they like in F2P. If they can't handle it cause of gamblin problem or addiction - dont think that SUb based will save them cause they will just waste their TIME instead. Playing your life away like many do in the sub based game is in many ways worse. Alot of young ppl are right now PLAYING their life away in sub based games - skipping school - skipping homework - not getting a job. Hell... many of them will never even get an apartment.
Free to play gives players options if they want to play for Xtra amount of time to get items - or just buy them (like EXPpotions). Alot of the low lifes that sit infront of a pc 10 hours per day hate this idea cause it actually gives real ppl that have jobs and take part in real life a chance to progress with the money the EARN with their job.
So people are free to pay as much or as little as the want in F2P but you can't allow them to spend as little or as much time they want in an P2P? I knew people back when I played WoW that would do the 40 man raids and they had jobs, family etc, so if they can make time others can at least try to. One person comes to mine, his character was named skullcrusher and he was our main raid tank (damn good one imo), he also has 4 children, and a demanding job (EMT). No he didn't neglect his family or anything like that, I meet him once (Guild had a party in real life to meet) so I knew he wasn't full of BS about what he did.
You make yourself sound like in instant gratification person, because you see subscription games as wasting time to actually earn items. People only waste their lives in P2P and not F2P.. that is a good one. Plus can you link to anything that shows that a lot of people are wasting their lives away in mmos? No those anti-gaming PC thug "studies" don't count. Sure some of the already mentally unstable people might be, which to me is evolution at work.. these people won't be breeding ( hopefully).
You last statement is the most over used, hateful and yet funniest statement that pro F2P people like yourself love to use. So let me get this straight you have to spend extra money on things in a game to keep (progress) up with "losers"? lol....
Why does it matter if somebody buys it and somebody earns it? Simple, the people who got the item via learning how to actually play their class and so forth. I talked to people in WoW that wanted to buy tier gear and yet they said they never had any intention to raid or even do heroics. What that says to me again is instant gratification and its not really the "hardcore" wanting to e-peen, its people like those cause why else would they need the tier gear? No the "I pay 15 a month" does not mean you are ENTITLED to everything..
Just wanted to point out I played all raiding content in Vanilla WOW and TBC. Im not a f2p person but hell - Im not so snob to think Im more of a epen if I play more or less than others. And belvie you me - there was nothing Epen about playing a paladin in Vanilla WOW - where the only job in early 40 man raid was to buff 40 ppl every 3-4 mins.. And stand out of combat to ress those that died ;Þ (until Blizzard fixed that )
There is nothing better or worse about f2p. Thats my point. just like it was the point of the OP. Its just another way of buisness... Just like p2p earn their money on hyping up a game and selling shitloads of pre-orders before ppl realise they would never have payed for the game if they had the chance go try it before....