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Reasons Why WoW has the #1 worse community player base.
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Not true wow could have less elitists, duchbags and wanna be pros because of the complete freedom of the addons if blizzard limited the addons there wouldn't have been the achievement addon, gear score addon and such that makes all people if they want to raid with strangers have to download a bazillion of addons just to get accepted then insulted if their rate is not what it should be.
I don't agree.
I think people have gotten worse as a community, but I've yet to find a game that doesn't suffer from this.
It's just in other games there are less people and most of them are being so horrid to anyone who might have played WoW before, that their elitism about gear is being swamped by their elitism over how they are so much better than anyone who's ever had a WoW subscription.
My WoW guild has a couple of elitists, but I just ignore them when they go on about their gearscore. I got kicked from WC PUG for not using shadowbolt as an affliction specced lock (sure I could have, but I didn't want to constantly lifetap against a healer I had never met before, so I was starting slow - so I dotted and wanded till I got a feel for it). But that was entirely the stupidity of the elitist person I was playing with. I laughed, and went and did something else.
I think it is very unfortunate that the people who are complaining about the terrible community are also complaining about how it's accessible to everyone. In essence aren't you saying that you want your elitist game kept to you and your close friends and the nannies, housekeepers etc (gee, problem with women much?) can go back to cleaning. Sorry, they're people too.
The thing is - you create the community yourself. And comments like these are exactly what creates that kind of unpleasant environment.
Okay....my theory on the state of today's gaming communities is this:
Those of us that played MMOs in the mid to late 90s, and some before then even with MUDs, came from a time when the internet in your HOME was a fairly new thing. People were more helpful and more kind. We were just enjoying the amazing thing that unfolded when we were "suddenly" able to connect with other human beings all over the world to enjoy one common thing. It was fascinating and new and exciting. Attitudes were different in part....because of that.
The newer generation of MMO players (not ALL of them, but a good many) came from CONSOLE GAMES where you often play alone and don't need any social skills, or....if you do play with others, it was more along the lines of CS:Source type play where talking smack was just part of the deal. It was/is EXPECTED. Learning and practicing any kind of social skills.....was/is NOT. Most of these same people also grew up in the Decade of Impatience. Everything has been high speed for them....the internet, microwaves, drive-thru EVERYTHING. No offense is intended by this, but many of that generation became spoiled, lazy, presumptuous, self-absorbed brats. I know it's not easy to accept....but it's true. The older generations had/have their faults too. But the collaborating deficits of impatience, a sense that the world OWES you something, and a lack of social skills due to constant self-gratification regardless of those around you....has not made for a very appealing personality cocktail, if you will.
Then....
they decided to try WoW. (No I'm not saying there aren't asshats in ALL MMOs, I'm just saying WoW has an inordinate number of them.) And the anonymity of the internet when set to the tune of thousands, became a hotbed for breeding anti-social behavior... en masse....online.
I honestly feel sorry for the generation of kids that played outside VERY little, didn't participate in team sports (unless it was Madden Football), and were able to get things they wanted almost INSTANTLY....from song downloads, to fast food, to everything in between. I think a lot of them never learned to function as a member of a TEAM. Some of them don't even have families that pay any attention to them, they were "babysat" by video games and televisions. And truthfully....it's a very very sad scenario.
If you throw about 1000 of those people on every server....the end results are not going to be good.
Now, I'm not saying that anyone is perfect, or that anyone is "better than" anyone else. I'm just saying that there is a large percentage of BROKEN and hurt people that are "suddenly" thrust upon the MMO scene, and....this is what the results are today.
I blame console games that didn't teach team work, parents that were emotionally absent, and technology that has allowed for an apathy toward others to fester in these people that you are talking about dealing with in online games. They're not HAPPY people. Happy people don't take great delight in causing misery for others....broken and hurting people....might.
Anyway....enough of that rambling, but all I'm saying is....they may not be just complete asshats....they may be just very DAMAGED people. Therefore....your choice is to tolerate them and go on....or move elsewhere....like maybe to Mars....because planet Earth....is FULL of them.
EDIT:
Incidentally....I might add....that it's MY generation that raised a lot of these kids in homes where both parents worked and video games and cartoons and movies were convenient babysitters for busy parents. Trust me....I don't feel good about that. But we contributed to the problems we're seeing today....so there is no one that is "BETTER" than anyone else. The only recourse is to either be patient with their impatience and rudeness (ugh), confront it when you see it (rarely a good idea with strangers over the internet), ignore it and do your own thing (something my generation sadly is really GOOD at), or....play some other game, if gaming is your hobby.
For me...it's usually ended up being a combination of those "solutions" that ultimately ended up in the last one.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
WoW community isn't terrible. If you want help whisper someone or join a guild never never use general chat.
Having played WoW for five years....I have to agree with this statement. And it's true, to a lesser degree, of every other MMO on the market as well. People who like attention (even negative attention) are going to use the most PUBLIC places to get it. General and "trade" chat are swamps of murky nastiness, but that is BECAUSE...people FEED it.
Just like here on MMORPG.com....if you argue with the trolls, it only fuels their fire. It's exactly the same with other online "communities."
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
WoW has a community that seems to allways be worse in commentary outside of the game than inn it.
On a side note I don't see much change since vanilla and have a hard time buying the notion of these good old days going by my experiences with people who came to WoW from older mmos. There never seemed to be a lack of dramaqueens, elitists or flamers comming out of SWG, EQ or other games. Though that's only my experiences.
Okay....my theory on the state of today's gaming communities is this:
Those of us that played MMOs in the mid to late 90s, and some before then even with MUDs, came from a time when the internet in your HOME was a fairly new thing. People were more helpful and more kind. We were just enjoying the amazing thing that unfolded when we were "suddenly" able to connect with other human beings all over the world to enjoy one common thing. It was fascinating and new and exciting. Attitudes were different in part....because of that.
The newer generation of MMO players (not ALL of them, but a good many) came from CONSOLE GAMES where you often play alone and don't need any social skills, or....if you do play with others, it was more along the lines of CS:Source type play where talking smack was just part of the deal. It was/is EXPECTED. Learning and practicing any kind of social skills.....was/is NOT. Most of these same people also grew up in the Decade of Impatience. Everything has been high speed for them....the internet, microwaves, drive-thru EVERYTHING. No offense is intended by this, but many of that generation became spoiled, lazy, presumptuous, self-absorbed brats. I know it's not easy to accept....but it's true. The older generations had/have their faults too. But the collaborating deficits of impatience, a sense that the world OWES you something, and a lack of social skills due to constant self-gratification regardless of those around you....has not made for a very appealing personality cocktail, if you will.
Then....
they decided to try WoW. (No I'm not saying there aren't asshats in ALL MMOs, I'm just saying WoW has an inordinate number of them.) And the anonymity of the internet when set to the tune of thousands, became a hotbed for breeding anti-social behavior... en masse....online.
I honestly feel sorry for the generation of kids that played outside VERY little, didn't participate in team sports (unless it was Madden Football), and were able to get things they wanted almost INSTANTLY....from song downloads, to fast food, to everything in between. I think a lot of them never learned to function as a member of a TEAM. Some of them don't even have families that pay any attention to them, they were "babysat" by video games and televisions. And truthfully....it's a very very sad scenario.
If you throw about 1000 of those people on every server....the end results are not going to be good.
Now, I'm not saying that anyone is perfect, or that anyone is "better than" anyone else. I'm just saying that there is a large percentage of BROKEN and hurt people that are "suddenly" thrust upon the MMO scene, and....this is what the results are today.
I blame console games that didn't teach team work, parents that were emotionally absent, and technology that has allowed for an apathy toward others to fester in these people that you are talking about dealing with in online games. They're not HAPPY people. Happy people don't take great delight in causing misery for others....broken and hurting people....might.
Anyway....enough of that rambling, but all I'm saying is....they may not be just complete asshats....they may be just very DAMAGED people. Therefore....your choice is to tolerate them and go on....or move elsewhere....like maybe to Mars....because planet Earth....is FULL of them.
EDIT:
Incidentally....I might add....that it's MY generation that raised a lot of these kids in homes where both parents worked and video games and cartoons and movies were convenient babysitters for busy parents. Trust me....I don't feel good about that. But we contributed to the problems we're seeing today....so there is no one that is "BETTER" than anyone else. The only recourse is to either be patient with their impatience and rudeness (ugh), confront it when you see it (rarely a good idea with strangers over the internet), ignore it and do your own thing (something my generation sadly is really GOOD at), or....play some other game, if gaming is your hobby.
For me...it's usually ended up being a combination of those "solutions" that ultimately ended up in the last one.
The parts I highlighted struck a chord, & it does leave me wondering if game companies could do a lot more to help.
Much of game development is so concentrated on the game, it's systems, that perhaps the community is lost sight of in some ways, a more socially tuned in approach, whereby systems & mechanics & even quests were built to foster a more co-operative & helpful approach to players, at least those lower levelled, geared, achieved & on the same faction as yourself.
I think it's doable, I just don't think game designers do enough on that area, ultimately of course it's down to the community itself what it will be like but I don't think it's all down to them, I think there are ways to do it better.
I wouldnt particulary blame one community or another. WOW did bring more people to gaming, but with it more bad apples also whom have spread to other games. Even b4 WOW im very sure the games didnt have a "pure" community.
(BBBBBBBWWWWWAAAAAHHHHH raises double plunger slaute to night elf chicks!)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
While its still possible to find decent people in Warcraft I found in the last couple of years there does seam to be a lot more rude and unfriendly players than there used to be . Its a lot worse on the pvp servers than the pve ones . Its proberbly because younger players like pvp and also the game has been designed increasingly with younger children in mind . I don't blame Blizzard for targets a certain age demographic but personaly I want to play in a game were you don't come across obnoxious kids all the time . ( or obnoxious adults for that matter ) . If i was 8 i would still love this game but at 28 its a little too much like a virtual schoolyeard for me now . If Blizzard offered different server options I would proberbly return but certainly not as it is .
There are levels on douchebags. EQ2 and LOTRO have a lot nicer players in general than games like Wow and Guildwars.
I think that the main problem here isn't the people but the instancing. The games with a lot of instances seems to have less social players than the ones with fewer (or it could just be by chance). I think that the instances just makes the players less helpful to players not in the guild.
Also Wow have many very young players and they might not have gotten their netiquette right yet.
That doesn't mean that there isn't many nice and caring players in Wow or Guildwars of course but just not so many as in some other games.
I personally do blame Blizzard, Yayitsandy, because the game was intended for use by 18+ and then they changed it to 13 plus (that's when I left for GOOD 3 years ago) and from what I've heard, there are 8 yo's playing now. What kind of adult entertainment is that for 8 yo kids? The language that goes on, not to mention the lascivious behavior is not for under 16 at the lowest age. The Internet gaming industry has gone to the dogs with Blizzard being the leader of the pack. Blizzard has totally ruined WoW for me and has left a crappy taste in my mouth.
You need to have a great deal of tolerance and patience if you are going to enjoy PuG dungeon runs. If you can't handle that, then you should bring players that you know with you instead of doing the random PuG. I don't care if people bitch at me or boot me from the group because of my gear or HP or Mana. I find it amusing. It's really no skin off my back since gear has never been a very high priority for me in any game. I usually pass on most of the loot drops anyway, unless it is an upgrade for me that nobody else wants. Getting mad about elitist players in a PuG is kinda like the kettle calling the pot black.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
There are levels on douchebags. EQ2 and LOTRO have a lot nicer players in general than games like Wow and Guildwars.
I think that the main problem here isn't the people but the instancing. The games with a lot of instances seems to have less social players than the ones with fewer (or it could just be by chance). I think that the instances just makes the players less helpful to players not in the guild.
Also Wow have many very young players and they might not have gotten their netiquette right yet.
That doesn't mean that there isn't many nice and caring players in Wow or Guildwars of course but just not so many as in some other games.
I tend to think it has more to do with player density than it does instancing.
Guild wars and wow are packed with players, where the other games are not so heavily populated and can often be called lonely games. Games with bigger populations allow people to be a bit louder and 'hide' within the crowd so to speak. Mob mentality if you will. Games with smaller populations tend to grow a hive minded, become extremely cliquish and lash out at anything that doesn't conform.
I also think that wow and guild wars attract a far more diverse population than say lotro and eq2, because the former games offer a more diverse set of activities than the latter.
well talking from a EQ2 point of view, but the game is practically the same......an MMO focused on gear, and that is the problem, even the most patient person know that a person in low gear will slow you down, or maybe even mean you cant do the said instance.
in eq2 tho I have yet to see ppl get kicked out, but ppl do shout for "awesome players" ie high end geared only.....even if not really neccesary, but because it will make an instance go twice as fast.
that what you get from an MMO that you have to be able to sit n play for 30 min, and stil feel you got something good, or atleast had a chance on some awesome gear.....anyone who doesnt fit into your plans of obtaining this is just in the way and not an asset for your PERSONAL GAINS
tough balance but the original game did it great....small upgrades to make all viable is how it should be, to avoid elitists to be the norm.
over all dont blame the community for the way the game is build.....build to achieve.
Exactly what I did. That and other reasons for me to quit. Chats are so constantly abused that I had to turn them off.I then realized that I was paying and playing a single player MMO and that the RP was nowhere to be found because of retards and abusive youngsters. Where's the fun in the once great WoW now seriously. QUIT.
Proven wrong by of the biggest research group:
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/stateofvgamer_040609_fnl1.pdf
World of Warcraft is one of the top games on PC played by 25-54 years old.
The PDF leaves no doubt that the WOW community (study in the US only) is being played by 1 M Americans in this age bracket.
So far prejudgement.
I would even call it a kind of phobic view of what you hate, not about reality.
Only WOW haters could come up with such nonsense as 8 year olds.
8 - 13 years old don't have 15 dollar subscriptions on PC games.
The play on consoles.
You can't discuss sociology stats.
Are you serious? I guess my two nephews are the only kids who use their allowance to play WOW?
Apparently he or she also didn't consider just how very very many kids have WoW subs that Mommy and Daddy pay for FOR them. Seriously. Trust me....I'm a parent. I have three children (now grown). Fifteen dollars a month to keep your child entertained in a safe environment....at least they're HOME....is small change for a working parent. And do not even KID yourself into thinking that a lot of WoW players don't have parents MORE than willing to pay that price and DOING it..
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I agree, WoW has an annoying community. It's also very server or country dependant. When I still played WoW, I once made a character on an UK server, since a buddy was playing there. Man I was baffled by the constant stream of insults people threw at each other on all channels.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Hi, I tried wow 1 year ago. After hearing so mutch about it i gave it a shot. I got a dwarf warrior to lv24, then there was some group quest a guy asked me if i wanted to join. It went almost like this:
Guy: Hi u wanna do zzz quest?
Me: zzz quest where?
Guy: You noob?
Me: yes i am newb, started yesterday.
Guy: NOOOOOOOOOOOOB!!! LOOOL HAHAHAHA LOL HAHAHA
Guy in public: Silcan is a NOOOOOOOOOOOOB!!!! LOOOOOOOL HAHAHAHA HE IS A NOOOOOOOOOB
so, after some hours i really got bored anyway. i quitted and have never been happier:)
Yes, it was so much better in early vanilla when after 14 hours of raiding a fellow guildie would bet DKP on the same item as you only to get you soaked out of points as he never intented to get the boob shoulders or whatever in the first place. It was just rad when half of the server hated the leading PvE guild for having epics, calling them no-lifes and elitists while the aspiring guilds would wallow in the drama of said guild's bad organization and lacking personalities. It was fine and dandy with all the open world PvP soap opera on the forums.
Yes, I can agree that the general feeling of the community was way better back in the good old times, but still I remember a lot of situations that made people go emomode in some serious ways. I think that at least now we've got less broken nerd lifes because of being rejected into an uber guild. And yes, I'm totally serious now.
It's all like saying Britney Spears fans are mostly morons and Miles Davis lovers are generally smart people. 80% of both are complete asshats, trust me on that.
Edit: No, I don't play WoW.
Good last post above.
As this thread is clearly all about pre-judgment and even on the limit of "player-racism" and even social studies are not considered decently...
I would like the mods to close this thread.
WOW is played by society. Welcome to society.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I suppose I don't get this because I'm in a guild with people I enjoy the company of. I pug every now and then and most of it is fine. Tradechat don't bother me either; it's no worse or better than it ever was. As for the WoW community I like the bits I'm in contact with. My guild and most random players ingame. Outide the game there is a rich community that hasn't been mentioned so far. Machinema, joke songs, comics, etc. Not all of it is good, but alot of it is and it's all for good fun.
Who didn't laugh when they read Alamo teeching you to play a durid?
http:http://www.wowwiki.com/Alamo#Alamo_teechs_u_2_play_DURID.21//
Or thought these videos were nice:
www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=139145
There is alot of good in the WoW community and getting hung up on the bad seems silly to me, but that's just me.
Actually no, and i was waiting for a post like this. Just today, i was in a group with a new fellow to the game . he types in part chat "hey guys, i've never done this instance before and i really don't want to be kicked." I replied " hey that's fine, we will teach you." I have NEVER seen someone actually in so much confusion they had to ask " why are you being so nice to me? Thank you though for not kicking me, though i don't have the proper requirements."
Its been either that long that someone has been nice to this guy in this game, or he has been in so many groups with so many "douchebags" as you put it that he has to state a speech before he begins to "work" with these people. IF you ask me that's pretty sick and twisted that someone has to "bow down" to the BS of the typical WoW player like so.
By the way, on the EQ comment. You are correct. Eq did have these kinds of people, but at the least EQ provided a challenge and your reputation with people did matter to some degree.
This is very true. "Noobs" have to pre-empt with apologies out of fear of being kicked and/or abused. The problem being that if your not geared properly or are new to an area, then somehow this equates to being a shit gamer.
Whilst I'm also quick to condemn the 'douchebags', and there are many, I feel the WoW gameplay is as much to blame because it tends to propogate this behaviour. The holy trinity and reliance on major gear emphasis tends to sideline actual skill, and if you dont have much time to play, then surely you have a right to be elitist from time to time to get the job done?
Not EVERYONE in an MMO or in WoW is a jerk but sadly I'd probably say that most of them are, especially when it comes to raids or dungeons.
I played EQ back in 2000. Trust me, plenty of douches. Some high level raiding douche stealing the rare spawn you had been at for 2 hours is kinda hard to beat on the worst community factor. It happened all the time. Trains, kill stealing, scams, lame jokes, derogatory remarks over /shout channel, elite raiding pricks, whatever. Barrens chat(or wherever people level in WoW now) is no worse than Oasis chat was.
Does WoW have a bad community? Um, yep, no way around it. So did EQ. So did DAoC.
Were there pockets of good people? Yep.
I will say back before DAoC became the joke it is today it did have a great community if you looked past the 8 mans.
All I can assume is you guys didn't play EQ back when it was very popular. I saw nothing new in WoW in the short time I was there, that I didn't see in EQ(loot whore inspectors where there, too, guys). Actually, WoW was slightly better, because no one could KS me. Also, people were always there ready to enchant my gear.