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Random dungeon finder
Lord.Bachus
Member RarePosts: 9,686
In am pretty spoiled with WOW's dungeon finder, took me 2 months and i played all 5 person dungeons in the game on my new druid.. It works great and makes all the low level content in leveling dungeons accessible again.
What other MMO's have a comparable system that lets you easilly access all content you have access too from every place in the world ?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
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If it where up to me every MMO would copy this feature..
Okay, with maybe one little extra, that you can only sign up for dungeons, you have allready accessed through the normal entrance.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
What's good about that actually?
Isn't that exactly what you get in games like Guild Wars, DDO, etc which has no persisent world just instanced scripted dungeons?
Why do you actually need a world if all you do is sit at auction and trainer and doing instances all day long with random people?
REALITY CHECK
May be we don't need a world but still DDO nor GW has this feature of random matching and all the associated features.
And it is GREAT. Very popular and Blizzard is going to expand the functionality to BG, and hopefully raid. It is great because you don't have to waste time a) to get a group together, and b) to travel to the dungeon.
More fun, less down-time. No wonder it is so popular.
It is not as simple though. It shows that Blizzard has shown about the whole process and did a lot of work to make it work so well. The interface is easy .. but exactly how do you do the match (in terms of assessing gear, level of dungeon difficulty ...) is probably not an exact science.
May be we don't need a world but still DDO nor GW has this feature of random matching and all the associated features.
And it is GREAT. Very popular and Blizzard is going to expand the functionality to BG, and hopefully raid. It is great because you don't have to waste time a) to get a group together, and b) to travel to the dungeon.
More fun, less down-time. No wonder it is so popular.
Ok so the advantage is, that you don't need to talk to people (or ask for invite in case of DDo) to get a group, but you get instantly random team full of random <name%n> players that you'll basically never meet again. Shouldn't they just implement bots? They would at least never go AFK or roll on gear they can't wear.
REALITY CHECK
Well the "burden of proof" in that question rests more heavily on the world players than the instance/auction players.
The underlying reasons why players enjoy economy and instancing/teamplay in games are understood. Both involve a steady fllow (or at least an on-demand flow) of interesting decisions, with enough "noise" in the system to keep each one interesting for a fairly long time.
The underlying justification of world gameplay is less understood. I mean, I could come up with a good number of reasons why it appeals to players, but inevitably that list is going to look significantly less compelling to most players than the lists I could come up with for Dungeon-running and Economy.
So I'm curious...why do you actually need a world? Or a bit more directly....why do you need a world?
As long as Diablo 3's gameplay doesn't totally tank, and if it includes some form of economy, I certainly foresee that game dominating my playtime for a good long while. Dungeon running and teamplay are the core elements I'm after in MMORPGs. Many MMORPGs don't do them well. Admittedly even Diablo 2 didn't do teamplay particularly well, but a lot of time has passed since then and somehow I get the impression teamplay will be much stronger in D3.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
i love the tool
All the old angry elfs here will whine about how it kills mmo, but i dont care. It works great.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
May be we don't need a world but still DDO nor GW has this feature of random matching and all the associated features.
And it is GREAT. Very popular and Blizzard is going to expand the functionality to BG, and hopefully raid. It is great because you don't have to waste time a) to get a group together, and b) to travel to the dungeon.
More fun, less down-time. No wonder it is so popular.
Ok so the advantage is, that you don't need to talk to people (or ask for invite in case of DDo) to get a group, but you get instantly random team full of random <name%n> players that you'll basically never meet again. Shouldn't they just implement bots? They would at least never go AFK or roll on gear they can't wear.
Thillian, you might want to think about removing the stick from your asses stick from its ass.
The point of playing a game is to play the game. i have never used this feature but if it streamlines the game and makes it more fun; it is a good thing.
If a person wants to do the same dungeon 10 times they should not have to travel the path over and over and over again. It is redundant. The path does not change and often times traveling the same land 50, 100, 1000 times people tend to do in MMOs is just boring.
Some people actually like playing MMOs and accomplishing tasks--beating the dungeon. If you do not who cares. Do not use it do not play it.
it seems like a great thing to me though.
--John Ruskin
May be we don't need a world but still DDO nor GW has this feature of random matching and all the associated features.
And it is GREAT. Very popular and Blizzard is going to expand the functionality to BG, and hopefully raid. It is great because you don't have to waste time a) to get a group together, and b) to travel to the dungeon.
More fun, less down-time. No wonder it is so popular.
Ok so the advantage is, that you don't need to talk to people (or ask for invite in case of DDo) to get a group, but you get instantly random team full of random <name%n> players that you'll basically never meet again. Shouldn't they just implement bots? They would at least never go AFK or roll on gear they can't wear.
There is no AI as good as people. And if they have good bots, i am sure people will use them too ... and wait .. DDO *has* bots.Nothing wrong with that.
But i digress. Who said you cannot talk to people on random group? You don't like to does not mean that i don't. The advantage is to shorten the down-time. Plus, you can queue with your frds.
GREAT tool to fill the last slot when there is no tank LFG on my server.
May be we don't need a world but still DDO nor GW has this feature of random matching and all the associated features.
And it is GREAT. Very popular and Blizzard is going to expand the functionality to BG, and hopefully raid. It is great because you don't have to waste time a) to get a group together, and b) to travel to the dungeon.
More fun, less down-time. No wonder it is so popular.
Ok so the advantage is, that you don't need to talk to people (or ask for invite in case of DDo) to get a group, but you get instantly random team full of random <name%n> players that you'll basically never meet again. Shouldn't they just implement bots? They would at least never go AFK or roll on gear they can't wear.
Thillian, you might want to think about removing the stick from your asses stick from its ass.
The point of playing a game is to play the game. i have never used this feature but if it streamlines the game and makes it more fun; it is a good thing.
If a person wants to do the same dungeon 10 times they should not have to travel the path over and over and over again. It is redundant. The path does not change and often times traveling the same land 50, 100, 1000 times people tend to do in MMOs is just boring.
Some people actually like playing MMOs and accomplishing tasks--beating the dungeon. If you do not who cares. Do not use it do not play it.
it seems like a great thing to me though.
And not only many posters here agree that it is a good thing .. it is WILDLY POPULAR and Blizzard is expanding its use. People like Thillian can rant all they want but they are not going to stop progress. Developers are not stupid enough to listen to them.
I really have no idea why a system like this wasn't created sooner. It should almost be a requirement in MMOs nowadays. It's been around with consoles for quite a while now.
@nariusseldon I don't think it's quite as hard as you are making it out to be. Blizzard has had item levels in the game since alpha and now I believe they even use a gearscore in your profile (I haven't played in months so I don't know for sure). Just keep the equipment level within range of the players OR within an average for how difficult a dungeon is. Blizzard knows you'll need a tank (who ideally is specced for tanking), healer, maybe CC, and DPS so they can form up groups by looking at your class and specs. The benefits of putting a feature like this in place in other MMOs far outweighs the difficulty it would take to put it in.
5-man is prob easier because u need exactly 1 tank and 1 healer. 10 man will be a lot harder because there are many combo of tank/dps/healer and that is prob why even blizzard hasn't done it yet.
So basically you people just want a single city to idle at, and then different dungeon maps you can instantly port to without travel, talking to other people, or risk in getting to the dungeon? If that doesn't kill the whole idea of a MMORPG then I dont know what does.
Its so sad how the kids these days want everything and they want it NOW. God forbid they have to travel through a dangerous, dark forest to get to the dungeon.
Its like when EQ expansion came out with the Plane of Knowledge and insta-ports to everywhere. Talk about immersion taking a dagger to the throat. These games do NOTHING to make you feel like you're actually in a living, breathing world any more. Instead, they are all about instantly porting you to the dungeon of your choice, totally making the rest of the game world obsolete.
I remember it being RISKY to go to certain dungeons. Having to have a good group of people just to get to it. Making it seem exciting that you actually made it there alive, you know, like it would happen if you really had to get to a dangerous place.
So sad...
I'm not a kid, and I'm not even someone who would use the feature too often since I dislike PUGGing in games; however gone are there days where everything has to be an inconvience for the sake of "immersion" that the majority of people could care less about. Yes, I want my MMO time to be well spent, not traveling around "looking at the scenery". I'm someone who played Everquest for 5 years and although I did occassionally enjoy getting lost and the sense of dread knowing I could die in a dangerous area, I do like being able to log into a MMO and do something productive in 30 minutes to an hour.
Believe it or not, most people could care less about the world and care more about things that matter... like how fun the actual gameplay is.
I love the dungeon finder, it's not the journey through the forest of evil things to get to the dungeon that bothers me, it's getting there and finding no-one else around. Particularly as many of WoW's servers are devoid of low level characters (except for rapid alt levelling).
And as I play the game at an 8 hour offset (forward) from the server time due to my current work situation it helps me find people on other servers when there's absolutely no-one on mine at 5 in the morning.
The only real downside is the gear grinders who clog up the hardcore dungeons, refuse to talk, speed run everything, and quit in a sulky tantrum the moment anyone dies. Groups are in fact a lot more fun during the levelling process.
It would also be cool if WoW recognised that some of the content is playable in smaller groups as you progress, and high gear 80's should have access to all content and be able to choose their group size.
Better still would be if instance evil things scaled to meet the player group level making much more use of the original content.
Lol. Honestly, I quit a week after this system was released. It destroyed what little community the game had left. Not even to mention the fact that you can't ever finish a dungeon, due to the lack of punishment or reprucussions (such as being called out by that person later, or perhaps just running across that player later, may sound silly, but it's what drives a lot of people to be polite). Simply put, people leave, left and right, nonstop. If ever you finish a dungeon, you have probably went through at least 15 people to do so.
All they had to do was make a game where everything can't be soloed. People would ALWAYS be trying to group up.
When you have a game where everyone can get to max level without even so much as talking to someone else, then thats what most people are going to do because its the easiest way.
But instead, they turned it into a game where you just port to different dungeons you want to do. Gone are the days of running into friends in odd places, helping someone in trouble who was soloing (well, that would never happen since the mobs are so easy) while running by and becoming friends, or just the feeling of a large, breathing world.
Next MMOs will just be a lobby where everyone gets ported to a dungeon. Seems like we're already there.
Sigh.....
It's sad to see MMO's disappear, but that is what is happening, being replaced by, in essence, console RPG gaming.
What separated MMO's from console games was that they were not linear. They were open worlds, people actually communicated, worked together, and explored the world for fun, etc. Where are any of those elements now? Maybe the working together is to a degree, but in most cases it's only for each individual player to benefit themselves only...not their groups as a whole, hence ninja looters and people who drop group and ditch you the second they get what they want.
Having one "Supposed" MMO that is instance heavy and easy in every possible way is fine, but asking for EVERY MMO to be like that is just selfish IMO. Just because some of us enjoy progressing slower in order to really get to know our character's classes, explore the world, make friends to chat with/adventure with ,and treat it as an open world to get away from the drudgery of our everyday real lives doesn't mean we don't deserve to have at least ONE game that caters to us.
And don't tell me "Majority rules, deal with it" (/awaits sm@rt@ss to say it now). There are PLENTY of players out there looking for such a game. Hell, look at these boards on any given day. It's just that companies now are blinded by nothing BUT dollar signs and have no passion for making MMO's for the purpose they started as...to entertain for a long period of time, while allowing the communities/economies in said MMO to blossom into a thriving world of creativity and adventure.
Almost nothing separating PC MMO's and console games as different genre's anymore.
As the Human torch would say...flame on.
ive met more people using the dungeon finder than I ever could have without it. Ive also learned that not all servers do dungeons the same, and its help to break the homogonized dungeon runs that you find on a single server. overall, its helped me understand the game more as a whole
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Thillian, you might want to think about removing the stick from your asses stick from its ass.
The point of playing a game is to play the game. i have never used this feature but if it streamlines the game and makes it more fun; it is a good thing.
If a person wants to do the same dungeon 10 times they should not have to travel the path over and over and over again. It is redundant. The path does not change and often times traveling the same land 50, 100, 1000 times people tend to do in MMOs is just boring.
Travel and exploration is also - part of the gameplay, and was always a part of the MMORPG gameplay.
That's why I asked, why do you need a world if its such a burden. Why don't Blizzard just removes all the world (it just takes up hard disk space), makes a general auction hall for everyone with one chatroom to talk about class balance.
Plus of course, the LFG tool which would be later on replaced with even better LFB tool (looking for bots), - a smart move to improve the community - no afk-ing, no ninjaing, no leaving until its finished and no occasional use of party chat with something like "noob tank", "HEAL", or "duel me!". Because currently, these are probably the only things that separate these two.
REALITY CHECK
Thillian, you might want to think about removing the stick from your asses stick from its ass.
The point of playing a game is to play the game. i have never used this feature but if it streamlines the game and makes it more fun; it is a good thing.
If a person wants to do the same dungeon 10 times they should not have to travel the path over and over and over again. It is redundant. The path does not change and often times traveling the same land 50, 100, 1000 times people tend to do in MMOs is just boring.
Travel and exploration is also - part of the gameplay, and was always a part of the MMORPG gameplay.
That's why I asked, why do you need a world if its such a burden. Why don't Blizzard just removes all the world (it just takes up hard disk space), makes a general auction hall for everyone with one chatroom to talk about class balance.
Plus of course, the LFG tool which would be later on replaced with even better LFB tool (looking for bots), - a smart move to improve the community - no afk-ing, no ninjaing, no leaving until its finished and no occasional use of party chat with something like "noob tank", "HEAL", or "duel me!". Because currently, these are probably the only things that separate these two.
Stop being so silly. The LFG tool has revived all of the lower level dungeons (and the TBC ones also). That alone makes the tool totally worth it.
Few observations:
- The LFG tool is not only cross server, it is a very clever tool to group up people in an easy way (one click method).
- It is being monitored so people are put together based on roles BUT also on gear (so the content can be downed).
- Blizzard was smart enough to have a counterweight in the game: the world still gets played.
By using seasonal content (by travelling a million miles troughout Azerroth for the Lunar season etc) and the waiting time spawns, no problem haters: Azeroth world is being played all the time.
- If you think the LFG tool for dungeons was great: wait till it is being launched for the BG's and the need there to gain the daily Arena points and upcoming PvP competition. You'll be grouping for PvP as long as you must win your daily/weekly battlegrounds.
Comments:
- Every MMORPG based on the same style should get the system asap on rails (Lotro, War, AoC, Aion, ...)
- Every MMORPG should include massive amounts of realm world content to serve as a counter weight (seasonal content, crafting, gathering, guild leveling, realm fights). Blizzard handled this rather well.
- It makes for a dramatic change in the leveling department: WOW was a solo game until Dec 2009 in the leveling department, now it is a group based game with an added solo play possibilty.
The man who invented the mechanism (and balancing) to group up players in such a polished way should get a raise at Blizzrd HQ's.
Edit: with one blow Blizzard managed to put on hold GW2 and SW - for that I am sure -. Coming up after this tool with NPC pets to fulfill the role of tanks and healers is .... suicide. (the famous henchmen used in GW and already announced in SW).
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Nice post, I hadn't really considered those perspectives before.
I wonder though how many of the people you have met can have made it to your friends list because I do feel that social content is better measured by quality of friendships rather than number of people met. For me the big downside of the cross-server matching system is that it promotes a community in which players are ships that pass in the night. In the past, many of my closest MMO friendships have started by random grouping so it worries me if that possibility is being taken away.
As for different servers having different ways of tackling dungeons, that's an interesting phenomenom but I think it is only temporary and wouldn't exist at all if cross-server matching had been in place from the start.
Anyway, don't get me wrong, i'm not totally against the dungeon finder I just think that it is a double-edged sword. It is impressive though the way it has taken the frustration out of forming groups and opened up the lower level instances.