The question is how much time? Again as I said in my previous post everything depends on Cataclysm. If it suffeciantly modernizes and updates WoW it could potentually allow it to continue to grow for the forseeable future. On the other hand if it fails to do that WoW's decline will come sooner. It will happen, it may already be beginning, or this plateau may just be a temporary thing. You don't know, I don't know, Camp1111 dosen't know, no one knows. (Also don't think I didn't notice how you picked the most logically flawed post to respond to earlier)
I don't disagree with your posts.
The only concern I have was raised by a previous poster. When WOW does begin winding down, will the majority of fans shift to other mmos, or will they leave the market altogether? I like to think that WOW has brought in new mmo players (myself included) that are here for the stay. I hope I'm not wrong, but we'll just have to wait and see.
You don't have a concern: you post every other day WOW will go down soon.
You deliberately say "for 2 years now ... 2008". It's 12 months to be exact.
While the subs held the same over a period of Dec 2008 to Dec 2009 with not even an expansion in sight for that year.
That's whishfull thinking and not taking into account the China hic-up and the economical damage to the video game market in 2009 at all.
Oh yes indeed, we all know that new Blizzard launches are ... lackluster in success.
So "wait and see attitude" before posting about upcoming Blizzard games and expansions is the only smart thing to do unless you want to be confronted with Loke666 ... 2007 predictions in the previous page of this thread, which were exactly in the same order and were ... 1200% off on a 3 years margin. (look it up a few posts back). "Hardly 1 M subs in 2010 with 100K left in 2015".
Those "2007 predictions" are good for a jolly good laugh these days and illustrative for the same posts all over these last 3 years. The only difference with today's situation and 2007 ...is that ... Lotro, AoC, War, TR, Hellgate, Aion already were published and it didn't even make a dent...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
You don't have a concern: you post every other day WOW will go down soon. Wrong! I rarely poke my head in the WOW forums. However, I have some very close friends that I would be more than happy to see move on from the game, so I do keep an eye on my old favorite mmo.
You deliberatly say "for 2 years now ... 2008". Wrong again I'm afraid. I have just been reiterating the fact that WOW's sub level has been hovering around 11.5 mil since 2008, I gave no specific date. Don't put words in my mouth. While the subs held the same over a period of Dec 2008 to Dec 2009 with not even an expansion in sight for that year. Great, so it's been hovering for a year, you said it. That's whishfull thinking and not taking into account the China hic-up and the economical damage to the video game market in 2009 at all. LOL, wishful thinking eh? Oh yes indeed, we all know that new Blizzard launches are ... lackluster in success. Huh? So "wait and see attitude" before posting about upcoming Blizzard games and expansions is the only smart thing to do unless you want to be confronted with Loke666 ... 2007 predictions in the previous page of this thread, which were exactly in the same order and were ... 1200% off on a 3 years margin. (look it up a few posts back). "Hardly 1 M subs in 2010 with 100K left in 2015". I thought you sounded familiar Not sure why you're mentioning Loke666 though. Those "predictions" are good for a jolly good laugh these days. OK.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Its a matter of perspective . If you want a casual game which you can play maybe an hour a day and get somewhere quickly then Warcraft is aimed at you . If you want some challenge in achieving goals and an immersive online world then yes WoW is going downhill . There are some real challenges to be found in Warcraft but they are far too few . When you can level from 1 to 80 within a week of gameplay (total time) and get full epic (welfare gear) within a similar amount of time then its really getting a little too easy . I dont like the term dumbed down because it implicates people that play WoW are dumb but the game is becoming increasingly easier or is that more accessable . I would love to see it offer something similar to what it once was . Thats unlikly to happen so I'm hoping a game that will come along that will offer the fun factor but offer the challenge factor too . In the meantime theres plenty of free to play games that offer a diversion .
From all of the negative talk about Warcraft,its seems that the game is lacking alot and players are starting to just quit.The game is going Downhill for lots reasons: The gameplay is boring or needs to be improved,The game it self says its massive but where the heck is everyone? It seems like the game was fun in the past,But have they gone to far?-Will the New Expansion fix theses problems?-and what will the future hold for warcraft?-So will warcraft be worth giving another shot at?
I would like to know what was the point of this post in the first place; people have been saying this for years and subscription numbers are proving them wrong every time. Just because your experience is what it is, does not mean everyone else' experience will be the same.
I for one left FFXI for WOW, left WOW for Aion, then left Aion to go back to WOW due to disappointment in Aion. To me WoW will only get better with the upcoming expansion, as I read the changes I am excited with all anticipation.
Anyhow, posting this to me sounds too much like the continuing echo of those countless posts over the years which has been saying the same thing...with no results.
WoW has played an intricate role in the way alot of games after it has modeled their game play, so to say the game play is boring means your going to have a hard time finding a game that is far different. If you think the game is not massive enough to the point where you ask "Where the heck is everyone?" then I must ask what is the highest lvl you have brought a character to and what server do you play on? In the entry areas you will not find as much players. You may find several people lvling alts or even ppl on trial accounts, but for the most parteveryone will be in the major cities or higher lvl areas.
If you play on a low population server then OF COURSE you will have the right to ask where the heck is everyone. There is a server list which tells you the population of every server, if you want massive then pick massive, if you want pvp then pick pvp, if you want PVE then pick it. It sounds to me like you haven't truly explored your options, I may be wrong but I doubt it from the tone of your post.
The question is how much time? Again as I said in my previous post everything depends on Cataclysm. If it suffeciantly modernizes and updates WoW it could potentually allow it to continue to grow for the forseeable future. On the other hand if it fails to do that WoW's decline will come sooner. It will happen, it may already be beginning, or this plateau may just be a temporary thing. You don't know, I don't know, Camp1111 dosen't know, no one knows. (Also don't think I didn't notice how you picked the most logically flawed post to respond to earlier)
I don't disagree with your posts.
The only concern I have was raised by a previous poster. When WOW does begin winding down, will the majority of fans shift to other mmos, or will they leave the market altogether? I like to think that WOW has brought in new mmo players (myself included) that are here for the stay. I hope I'm not wrong, but we'll just have to wait and see.
The important point isn't if wow is declining or not. It will happen at some point and nothing can stop that.
The important point will become WHY it declines.
If wow starts to decline simply because people are bored of it and leave the genre that does no one any good. It will not make other mmos any better or keep funding any higher. It will just shrink the genre.
If wow starts to decline as a result of other games finally getting their act together and offering some real competition that is a great thing and make no mistake, competition is exactly what this market needs right now.
I have said this before, the only reason wow dominates the market so much is due to the poor condition of other mmos.
The fanbots are of course free to say what they will but there's no denying that WoW is beginning to lose its steam:
Blizzard's net revenues decreased for the year ended December 31, 2009 as compared to 2008 primarily due to no new releases in 2009 and an interruption of licensing royalties for World of Warcraft in China from June 2009 to September 2009 as a result of a license transfer. This compared to 2008 with the successful November 2008 release of the second expansion pack of World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King. This decrease was partially offset by an increase in other value added service revenues.
Blizzard's net revenues increased for the year ended December 31, 2008 as compared to 2007 primarily due to the release of the second expansion pack of World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King in November 2008 and an increase in the number of World of Warcraft subscribers. ----------------
The one thing that I would like to point out is the fact that - "an interruption of licensing royalties for World of Warcraft in China from June 2009 to September 2009 - isn't really relevant even if Blizzard feels compelled to state it in their investor report.
Why you ask? Because, if we were to compare January through September of 2009 to the same period of time in 2008, we'd find that WoW INCREASED its revenue by $111 Million USD ($828M vs $939M). So clearly the China incident wasn't such a big deal, after all not only did it not cost Blizzard money but somehow during that period of time they managed to rake in an additional $111M. We also know that there was no real subscriber growth in 2009, so the increased revenue isn't from increased subs.
Which does bring up an interesting question. Where did that $111M come from anyways? Considering that WoW accounted for 98% of all of Blizzard's revenue in 2009 (97% in 2007 and 2008)...well...it's an interesting question that I don't have an answer to.
why do people care either way honestly. its pretty funny that people can get so worked up over something that literally doesn't put money in their own pockets.
From all of the negative talk about Warcraft,its seems that the game is lacking alot and players are starting to just quit.The game is going Downhill for lots reasons: The gameplay is boring or needs to be improved,The game it self says its massive but where the heck is everyone? It seems like the game was fun in the past,But have they gone to far?-Will the New Expansion fix theses problems?-and what will the future hold for warcraft?-So will warcraft be worth giving another shot at?
The problem with Blizzard is...
they take their sweet time to release new expansions and games.
Yes, they are kings in the polish department, but sometimes they take so long they lose the initiative in the marketplace. You will see this when some new MMO's come out in 2010/2011.
Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero The fanbots are of course free to say what they will but there's no denying that WoW is beginning to lose its steam:
The burden of evidence is on you. I'm saying that there are no conclusive evidence and only one weak indicator for this claim. That one being no growth in subscriptions for the year 2009, there have been raised counter points, perhaps most notably the recession having hit the video game industry as a whole quite hard. We make the simple point that there isn't enough indications to make statements as brash as the ones being made and that we won't have them until after Cataclysm hits. The doom and gloom claims based on personal preferences should offend anyone who value proper analysis. There is such a thing as integrity and I simply dislike people making poor arguments.
The one thing that I would like to point out is the fact that - "an interruption of licensing royalties for World of Warcraft in China from June 2009 to September 2009 - isn't really relevant even if Blizzard feels compelled to state it in their investor report. Why you ask? Because, if we were to compare January through September of 2009 to the same period of time in 2008, we'd find that WoW INCREASED its revenue by $111 Million USD ($828M vs $939M). So clearly the China incident wasn't such a big deal, after all not only did it not cost Blizzard money but somehow during that period of time they managed to rake in an additional $111M. We also know that there was no real subscriber growth in 2009, so the increased revenue isn't from increased subs. Which does bring up an interesting question. Where did that $111M come from anyways? Considering that WoW accounted for 98% of all of Blizzard's revenue in 2009 (97% in 2007 and 2008)...well...it's an interesting question that I don't have an answer to. Source: http://investor.activision.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1047469-10-1649
This is most likely from increased use of payed services. Faction change, racial change, server transfers, etc.(the new servises offered have largely been very popular). As well as sales of in game pets and other merchandice. I don't thing Blizz has much profit from authenticators, correct me if I'm wrong, though they have probably shiped quite a few of these too. To know how large the hit in China was we'd have to know the increase in these other services. This does not take into account the value of growth in the Chinese market both monetary for that year and as a long term investment.
The "doom and gloom" statement was of course not directed at you. It was as I said a comment on those who make "predictions" based on their personal opinions in an distinctly apocalyptic manner. "WoW is dying because I don't like it". I belive you've misunderstood my post, possibly due to my lack of clarity. I'm not a native english speaker so that will have to do for my defense.
I would claim that given the economical climate 0 growth is not a terrible result. I do concede to your point though, losing steam is within the parameters of what we know. What remains to be seen is if it is a short term trend or if it is longer term. this is the crux of the argument.
Personally I have an interest in the well being of the product I pay for and enjoy; though I have little to worry about as such. I do not have one in these forum discussions though I just make a point out of pointing out the faulty reasoning prevalent in this thread. As such your post was good and I tried to give you props for it, aside from the fanbot comment, though I might have failed at doing so. The investors report does not offend me nor do I have any strong feeling of it either way regarding it, it reports a quiet year with moderate results given the economic climate as well as optimism for the next year. I have not at any point dragged in my personal preferences and I make sure to distinguish between what is opinion and what is fact/analysis.
If you wish to arrest anyone on this I should be far from the biggest suspect. Given the company the other "fanbots" and me are beacons of rationality, though with this competition it does seem nearly rigged. A honest reading of this tread should easily show that the "haters" (though I'm reluctant to use the word) are far more likely to engage in applying their preferences as fact.
I took the 10 days trial a fews days ago and rolled a rogue gnome, i was pretty impressed for the first 15 levels, very good graphics, interface, decent mob level outdoors so I was pretty happy. Once I hit 15 I used the Dungeon Finder Tool, then ..... it went all downhill in less than 15 minutes First, after reading the manual and seeing that dungeons were full of elites mobs ( dragons icon near their names) , I was all excited to enter the dungeon. What they call dungeons in WoW is simply a total zerg fest where no tactics or skills is required. Its a total mess, the supposedly rare loot ( blue name ) drops like candies, people leaves group at any times without even a warning or good bye. Basically a dungeon runs is done in 15 minutes, and people jump from instance to another one all day long, how bad is that. Short version is : you can all get to 80 , you can all have the best loot even if yo have absolutely no idea how to play , all you have to do is to pay your monthly sub. This game basically attracts people or teenagers who loves instant gratification. So I asked in the forums if things were different at higher level in terms of dungeons difficulty,, all the people told me it s like this up to 80. everything was zerged. I have absolutely no idea why people loves games where there is no sense of achievement, because handing loot on a silver plate is just better for the business. Games like Everquest ( the first) had their share of problems and WoW through better interface and game mechanics solved a lot of these issues but at what price !! I have no idea why people are so enthusiast about a game where there is absolutely no sense of achievement.
that's the term i was looking for.. "instant gratification" ... QFT. I'll go play something that's a challenge like mahjong....
WOW is going down hill is because the devs are gettin lazy. It's been five years and we have barely seen any action when it comes to adding fresh character content to the game. By this I mean it's been five years and all we ever got were 2 new races and 1 new "heroic" class that got nerfed historically ever since it was released? DKs are fun but if WOW is actually is big as they want you to believe adding at least 2 more new classes should be no problem especially with amount of material blzzard has to work with.
The PVE aspect of this game has certainly has taken a turn for the worst. When ICC first came the 3 new instances were definitely attractive and ICC was why most people resubbed. Although, what at the time seemed like a turn around for the game with the new LFG system and the new instances and raid was actually the wow killer.
With LFG you could run a group with cross realm groups making it easy to attain badges. With that being said people jumped into heroics like never before, bought t9 and headed into toc10 and ony 10/25. After about less than a month they attained the proper gear from toc10 then headed into toc25. At this point most raids were obsolete i.e. Ulduar, Naxx, and Ony, so, naturally the next step was ICC10. Eventually, again, after less than a month these players were becoming ICC geared from the boss drops themselves or by using frost badges that dropped from the ICC bosses and by doing your first heroic of the day and the weekly raid. The daily heroic gave you 2 frost badges and the weekly raid gave you 5 frost badges.
That being said, these people were now on their road to enjoying the riches of WOW being ICC geared, moving up the ranks, passed the first four bosses, then into the plague wing, then into the blood wing, and then into the frost wing. Thing is most the players never even made it passed the plague wing, and when their group failed it was either icc25 time because you are saved and have to wait a week before raiding the same raid again or play your alt. And if you can't even pass the plague wing in 10 man you can forget about it on 25 man.
Basically, the game is going down hill. The game has become very monotonous. At end game for me now it appears that all I can do on my main is the weekly raid which is to kill one raid boss. Do my daily heroic, raid ICC10/25 til the BQ and then simply repeat because the rest of the content has become obsolete and there's no reason for me to bother unless I'm helping to gear my guildies. I'm basically subbed for this one raid that's starting to make me nauseous with how routine it has all become. Big routine trash pulls and then anal routine boss encounters, no variety what's so ever. Everything is the same ALL THE TIME.
The game has gone downhill and there's simply nothing there currently to keep me subbed. I enjoy gearing myself up as much as the next guy but at this point I can barely bring myself to log into the game. I could either make my 3rd alt or simply just quit for a while and wait for Cataclysm to come out. But even with that said I still won't see any new classes in the expansion just "revamped" zones and probably 3 new raids at max that will end up canceling each other out gear wise. And somewhere down the road blizzard will release a 4th cataclysm raid that will cancel out those 3, and the vicious cycle will keep on turning because people buy into this hype of 12 million people played blah blah blah.
"Everything the light touches is our kingdom" -- Mufasa ---
omg another "wow is a crappy game and its going downhill even though its packed with people and i played it for years" thread. im re subbing and so are two of my homeys. been out for a few months now its time to jump back in. do you have any idea how many people probably do exactly what me and my friends are doing? wow is king. hate it or love it its like the new york yankees of mmos. this thread now has over 50 posts and its just like a million other threads that have been posted over the past half decade. what does that tell you.
uber black and red temple of nod gaming case 4 fuckin gigs of random access memory ge force chopper sick balls over 9000 vid card bra holy shit im bragging about my computer to play mmo's processor!
omg another "wow is a crappy game and its going downhill even though its packed with people and i played it for years" thread. im re subbing and so are two of my homeys. been out for a few months now its time to jump back in. do you have any idea how many people probably do exactly what me and my friends are doing? wow is king. hate it or love it its like the new york yankees of mmos. this thread now has over 50 posts and its just like a million other threads that have been posted over the past half decade. what does that tell you.
omg another wow is a crappy game and is going downhill yet it's packed with people who played it for years thread.
"Everything the light touches is our kingdom" -- Mufasa ---
Its a matter of perspective . If you want a casual game which you can play maybe an hour a day and get somewhere quickly then Warcraft is aimed at you . If you want some challenge in achieving goals and an immersive online world then yes WoW is going downhill . There are some real challenges to be found in Warcraft but they are far too few . When you can level from 1 to 80 within a week of gameplay (total time) and get full epic (welfare gear) within a similar amount of time then its really getting a little too easy . I dont like the term dumbed down because it implicates people that play WoW are dumb but the game is becoming increasingly easier or is that more accessable . I would love to see it offer something similar to what it once was . Thats unlikly to happen so I'm hoping a game that will come along that will offer the fun factor but offer the challenge factor too . In the meantime theres plenty of free to play games that offer a diversion .
QFT, pretty much what i am trying to say in a nutshell....
I think some of the disappointment and outright loathing from previous WoW players MAY stem directly from this one inarguable fact, and that is:
The game has evolved into something that we did NOT sign up to play. It is becoming a dim reflection of what it once was, in terms of community (first and foremost), but also in terms of game play itself, class roles and interdependence, and over all sense of things being EPIC...from instances and raids, to armor, and many things in between.
Various items and achievements (BEFORE there was such a thing as an achievements "feature") that used to be special accomplishments, have now become common, almost mundane, and widely the "norm," to have "achieved," thereby making them feel shallow, neutering them of their "epic"-ness, so to speak.
When many of the WoW vets that have now left the game started playing, WoW was an entirely different animal than it is today. Some proclaim it has gotten better, but...there are a good many of those people that say that, that were not part of the WoW beta or vanilla WoW experience, and did not watch (sometimes in horror) the process of this evolution to what WoW is today. It's a pretty empty, hollow, and meaningless thing for some of us to hear how much "better" it has gotten, from people that were not around in the very beginning. The same conversations took place after SWG's NGE and UO's Trammel, didn't they? Sometimes games just evolve into something that the original core player base....doesn't really care for. So...they move on.
I think most ex-WoW players that fall into the above category have no problem admitting that they enjoyed WoW as it once was. However, over the course of the past five years, we (I really only speak for myself here) have watched it gradually be chipped away at, slowly eroding away some of the very things many of us played for to begin with.
Personally, I eventually reached a point in the game where, with a handful of max level characters and all of the crafting skills maxed except for blacksmithing, that I was almost totally self-sufficient, had all the tier gear I desired, had run all the raids until I could do most of them in my sleep, and was therefore relegated (pretty much) to either running the same things I'd run 100 times AGAIN, for the 101st time, grinding the few factions I had left for rep, trying to find achievements I hadn't done yet, that often required running the SAME things again for the 101st time, or just hopping from toon to toon doing all the EXACT SAME DAILIES on each of my max level characters back to back, or farming mats to make gold that I had absolutely NOTHING I wanted to spend it on.
Honestly...I'm not "angry." I'm a bit disillusioned, yes, but angry? No. Bored? Yes, certainly. But to be fair....the game "lasted" for 4-5 years for me. No, that's not on par with EQ or UO or other games that are still keeping people "plugged in" many more years down the road, but...my time in WoW did last longer than my first marriage! BONUS! (Slight sarcasm there.)
So I don't really know what we expect from MMOs. How long are they "supposed" to hold our interest? 5 years? 10 years? 20? Indefinitely?
I think it's a perfectly normal thing for people to move on to something new after five years, or more, or less....when we're simply talking about recreational activities. WoW is entertaining to a different group of people now (in a large part) than it was initially. I'm not sure that's necessarily a BAD thing. For Blizzard...it's good. They have managed to make their game enjoyable to a broad range of people spread out over the course of 5 years. The fact that it isn't necessarily the SAME people...is probably a bit of a moot issue to THEM. And to those of us that have moved on....is it really such a bad thing that we managed to squeeze several years of fun out of a game? There will be other games. There will probably be other games we'll like a LOT more than we did WoW, so...I don't know....it's really, in the end (in my opinion) a win/win situation.
Not playing WoW has given me time to do a lot of other fun things in RL and also time to try other games, several of which I have immensely enjoyed and continue to enjoy.
Is Warcraft going downhill? Meh. Do any of us REALLY care that much? If it does....it does. If it doesn't....does it really matter? For me....it did indeed gradually slide down the hill into a pit of soul-less muck. But that doesn't mean everyone should feel that way about it. There will certainly be people that follow us out the door. There will be people that stay. One way or the other....I'm happy to have had a few good years with WoW, and happier even still....to be away from it now enjoying other things.
omg another "wow is a crappy game and its going downhill even though its packed with people and i played it for years" thread. im re subbing and so are two of my homeys. been out for a few months now its time to jump back in. do you have any idea how many people probably do exactly what me and my friends are doing? wow is king. hate it or love it its like the new york yankees of mmos. this thread now has over 50 posts and its just like a million other threads that have been posted over the past half decade. what does that tell you.
Of course,
Just above this post is a personal rattle about how one person feels about the game after having played it for 5 years....
How much confidence one can have ?
People who can't analyse what this game is about and how it effected and effects a complete generation of PC gamers just can't seem to grasp the mechanics behind the game.
What's most disturbing is that they want to evaluate "WOW", while "WOW" they talk about has already changed so much, they have no clue what they talk about.
One example: I am leveling a druid class, I am having steatlh fun, and I stumble upon quests which end in a dungeon. 2 years ago I would have deleted the quest.
Now I subscribe to the dungeon, I await 30 minutes, maybe even 40, but within a nice time frame, the dungeon pops up and I can play it. Oh dear, we have a problem with a healer, no problem ... let me respec and we'll await the dps.
It simply changed in gaming fun: somebody has to come in here and spoil that fun for us active players... just because they decided that in their life the game got "worse".
No it didn't : Blizzard upgraded the playing value and video gameplay fun compared to waisting a good deal of your life in meaningless old hat MMO's with time sinks bigger than your eternal lost youth could ever make up for.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
omg another "wow is a crappy game and its going downhill even though its packed with people and i played it for years" thread. im re subbing and so are two of my homeys. been out for a few months now its time to jump back in. do you have any idea how many people probably do exactly what me and my friends are doing? wow is king. hate it or love it its like the new york yankees of mmos. this thread now has over 50 posts and its just like a million other threads that have been posted over the past half decade. what does that tell you.
Of course,
Just above this post is a personal rattle about how one person feels about the game after having played it for 5 years....
I guess 5 years of playing it doesn't translate as experience with the game to you. And you obviously didn't bother to read it. I said some fairly kind things about your pet game. You might have even approved. LOL
How much confidence one can have ?
When it comes to WoW...I have plenty of confidence that I know what I'm talking about. It's not like I logged in and played for a month and never returned.
People who can't analyse what this game is about and how it effected and effects a complete generation of PC gamers just can't seem to grasp the mechanics behind the game.
What's most disturbing is that they want to evaluate "WOW", while "WOW" they talk about has already changed so much, they have no clue what they talk about.
I played it for 5 full years. I was there up to and past the addition of the 24 Hour PuG LFG "tool." I think I know what I'm talking about. As I said...I've watched the game since BEFORE release. I've been there THROUGH all the changes.
One example: I am leveling a druid class, I am having steatlh fun, and I stumble upon quests which end in a dungeon. 2 years ago I would have deleted the quest.
Two years ago I would have gotten together with a bunch of my guildies that I had been getting to know and playing the game with for the last three years before that, and we would have gone and run it together on our alts and had a BLAST, laughing, remembering the first time we ran it and poking fun at each other about the mistakes we used to make, etc.
Now I subscribe to the dungeon, I await 30 minutes, maybe even 40, but within a nice time frame, the dungeon pops up and I can play it. Oh dear, we have a problem with a healer, no problem ... let me respec and we'll await the dps.
Dual spec classes (by the way, I have a lvl 80 resto/cat dual spec druid) have been in place longer than the LFG tool. But I'm sure you knew this. Yes, very handy dual spec. Such a time saver. Allows guilds to only make use of half the people they needed before while they're running instances, but wait...most don't even group with their guilds anymore....they just PuG their way to welfare epics...so...nevermind that comment. /rolls eyes I personally LOATHE the new "PuG The World System." It has made guilds pretty much obsolete for anything other than the highest end raiding.
It simply changed in gaming fun: somebody has to come in here and spoil that fun for us active players... just because they decided that in their life the game got "worse".
NOTE: This is YOUR opinion...just like others are posting THEIR opinions. Yours is not better than anyone elses, it is simply how you personally feel about it. You're not "right." You just have an opinion that differs from that of other people. And how does it "spoil your fun" to see other people have differing opinions? If it does....you need to seek counseling about that. Someone elses opinion should not affect your own level of enjoyment.
No it didn't : Blizzard upgraded the playing value and video gameplay fun compared to waisting a good deal of your life in meaningless old hat MMO's with time sinks bigger than your eternal lost youth could ever make up for.
Again....your opinion, that somehow you think trumps everyone elses opinion. It doesn't. It's no more or less valid than what anyone else thinks. You're 30 years old...you really should know better. Forums are for voicing opinions and not everyone is going to agree with you. This is how life is, as well, but at your age...I'd think you'd know that, brush it off, and go on.
omg another "wow is a crappy game and its going downhill even though its packed with people and i played it for years" thread. im re subbing and so are two of my homeys. been out for a few months now its time to jump back in. do you have any idea how many people probably do exactly what me and my friends are doing? wow is king. hate it or love it its like the new york yankees of mmos. this thread now has over 50 posts and its just like a million other threads that have been posted over the past half decade. what does that tell you.
Of course,
Just above this post is a personal rattle about how one person feels about the game after having played it for 5 years....
I guess 5 years of playing it doesn't translate as experience with the game to you.
How much confidence one can have ?
When it comes to WoW...I have plenty of confidence that I know what I'm talking about. It's not like I logged in and played for a month and never returned.
People who can't analyse what this game is about and how it effected and effects a complete generation of PC gamers just can't seem to grasp the mechanics behind the game.
What's most disturbing is that they want to evaluate "WOW", while "WOW" they talk about has already changed so much, they have no clue what they talk about.
I played it for 5 full years. I was there up to and past the addition of the 24 Hour PuG LFG "tool." I think I know what I'm talking about. As I said...I've watched the game since BEFORE release. I've been there THROUGH all the changes.
One example: I am leveling a druid class, I am having steatlh fun, and I stumble upon quests which end in a dungeon. 2 years ago I would have deleted the quest.
Two years ago I would have gotten together with a bunch of my guildies that I had been getting to know and playing the game with for the last three years before that, and we would have gone and run it together on our alts and had a BLAST, laughing, remembering the first time we ran it and poking fun at each other about the mistakes we used to make, etc.
Now I subscribe to the dungeon, I await 30 minutes, maybe even 40, but within a nice time frame, the dungeon pops up and I can play it. Oh dear, we have a problem with a healer, no problem ... let me respec and we'll await the dps.
Dual spec classes (by the way, I have a lvl 80 resto/cat dual spec druid) have been in place longer than the LFG tool. But I'm sure you knew this. Yes, very handy dual spec. Such a time saver. Allows guilds to only make use of half the people they needed before while they're running instances, but wait...most don't even group with their guilds anymore....they just PuG their way to welfare epics...so...nevermind that comment. /rolls eyes I personally LOATHE the new "PuG The World System." It has made guilds pretty much obsolete for anything other than the highest end raiding.
It simply changed in gaming fun: somebody has to come in here and spoil that fun for us active players... just because they decided that in their life the game got "worse".
NOTE: This is YOUR opinion...just like others are posting THEIR opinions. Yours in not better than anyone elses, it is simply how you personally fell about it. You're not "right." You just have an opinion that differs from that of other people. And how does it "spoil your fun" to see other people have differing opinions? If it does....you need to seek counseling about that. Someone elses opinion should not affect your own level of enjoyment.
No it didn't : Blizzard upgraded the playing value and video gameplay fun compared to waisting a good deal of your life in meaningless old hat MMO's with time sinks bigger than your eternal lost youth could ever make up for.
Again....your opinion, that somehow you think trumps everyone elses opinion. It doesn't. It's no more or less valid than what anyone else thinks.
You stopped playing before the LFG tool was implemented.
Easy to trace from your posts history.
People "play" games on forums these days instead of playing "in game".
Easy to trace.
Saying that the dual spec means there is less guild play is ridiculous and of course you also don't know the weekly Raids boss quest were introduced to enhance on server Raiding even more.
But like I said: you stopped playing before the Dec launch of the LFG tool.
"Theorizing" on game mechanics don't make sense at all if you no longer play a game.
You should know it after 5 years: WOW changes its mechanics every patch in one way or another (have a look at the new 3.3.3).
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
......clipped in the interest of saving space.....
You stopped playing before the LFG tool was implemented.
No, I didn't. I stopped playing about a month AFTER the LFG tool was implemented. I lost all interest in the game after they made guilds basically, like I said, obsolete. For ME....that was the final straw. I could copy my payment page from my account and post it here, if you like?
Easy to trace from your posts history.
People "play" games on forums these days instead of playing "in game".
Easy to trace.
ROFL...you're proving nothing but that you...are a desperate WoW fanboi, which is really sad.
Saying that the dual spec means there is less guild play is ridiculous and of course you also don't know the weekly Raids boss quest were introduced to enhance on server Raiding even more.
We already raided three times a week. The "weekly raid boss" did nothing for our guild.
But like I said: you stopped playing before the Dec launch of the LFG tool.
And like I said....you're calling me a liar, when I'm not, only proves your desperation. You really need help.
"Theorizing" on game mechanics don't make sense at all if you no longer play a game.
You should know it after 5 years: WOW changes its mechanics every patch in one way or another (have a look at the new 3.3.3).
Copy and Paste doesn't LOOK very good, but if you like....I can try to figure out how to screenshot this?
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As you can see....I even resubbed a couple of times TRYING to give the game more chances to continue earning money from me. My son and partner were still playing...I resubbed and TRIED to enjoy it, but....it lost it's "sparkle," and I eventually just said, the hell with it.
Now if you'd like for me to screenshot this and try to SHRINK it to fit the image here....I will. And frankly....I didn't NEED to prove anything to you. Your desperation is a sad sad thing when you resort to calling other people liars without any evidence that they are lying. Pathetic. Really.
......clipped in the interest of saving space.....
You stopped playing before the LFG tool was implemented.
No, I didn't. I stopped playing about a month AFTER the LFG tool was implemented. I lost all interest in the game after they made guilds basically, like I said, obsolete. For ME....that was the final straw. I could copy my payment page from my account and post it here, if you like?
Easy to trace from your posts history.
People "play" games on forums these days instead of playing "in game".
Easy to trace.
ROFL...you're proving nothing but that you...are a desperate WoW fanboi, which is really sad.
Saying that the dual spec means there is less guild play is ridiculous and of course you also don't know the weekly Raids boss quest were introduced to enhance on server Raiding even more.
We already raided three times a week. The "weekly raid boss" did nothing for our guild.
But like I said: you stopped playing before the Dec launch of the LFG tool.
And like I said....you're calling me a liar, when I'm not, only proves your desperation. You really need help.
"Theorizing" on game mechanics don't make sense at all if you no longer play a game.
You should know it after 5 years: WOW changes its mechanics every patch in one way or another (have a look at the new 3.3.3).
Posted on Nov 17th 2009 (and many many times before that post btw).
So since the LFG tool was only implemented with the Dec patch of 2009, you never played it.
Your negative posts on WOW began long before that (I think it had something to do with Lotro), but apparently you ran out of steam with game quite fast.
That just shows the emo state of judging game mechanics without experiencing them.
That's very important to note: IF the comments and critics come from players of the game or NOT.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
......clipped in the interest of saving space.....
You stopped playing before the LFG tool was implemented.
No, I didn't. I stopped playing about a month AFTER the LFG tool was implemented. I lost all interest in the game after they made guilds basically, like I said, obsolete. For ME....that was the final straw. I could copy my payment page from my account and post it here, if you like?
Easy to trace from your posts history.
People "play" games on forums these days instead of playing "in game".
Easy to trace.
ROFL...you're proving nothing but that you...are a desperate WoW fanboi, which is really sad.
Saying that the dual spec means there is less guild play is ridiculous and of course you also don't know the weekly Raids boss quest were introduced to enhance on server Raiding even more.
We already raided three times a week. The "weekly raid boss" did nothing for our guild.
But like I said: you stopped playing before the Dec launch of the LFG tool.
And like I said....you're calling me a liar, when I'm not, only proves your desperation. You really need help.
"Theorizing" on game mechanics don't make sense at all if you no longer play a game.
You should know it after 5 years: WOW changes its mechanics every patch in one way or another (have a look at the new 3.3.3).
Posted on Nov 17th 2009 (and many many times before that post btw).
So since the LFG tool was only implemented with the Dec patch of 2009, you never played it.
Your negative posts on WOW began long before that (I think it had something to do with Lotro), but apparently you ran out of steam with game quite fast.
That just shows the emo state of judging game mechanics without experiencing them.
That's very important to note: IF the comments and critics come from players of the game or NOT.
I had quit for a month in November of 2009, JUST as I said.
I bounced in and out of WoW like a yoyo, like many other people did...TRYING to find some enjoyment in it still, especially since my family was still playing. Would you also like me to post my payment history for the other games so that you can see where my November sub went?
As I said....you're pathetic in your desperation.
BY THEY WAY....I also pay for and play, quite often, more than ONE MMO at a time. So again....your attempt to discredit me is desperate, pathetic, and idiotic. I no longer like a game YOU like....and you are SO bent out of shape by that that you call me a liar and proceed with this type of harrassment?
Really, you need to grow up. I don't believe that you're 30 years old. You're behaving more like a child.
==============================
THIS POST you're talking about in November....isn't even me SAYING I don't play WoW....I was encouraging someone else to NOT CARE whether someone thought badly of THEM for playing WoW. Your reading comprehension is ALSO terrible!
Originally posted by Splinki
Originally posted by TheHatter
Fallen Earth is the only one I can think of that's similiar.
Originally posted by voidchaser
And before I get flamed No I don't play WoW.
Yeah, I'm playing FE and I was wondering if you could explain that further?
Someone else response to void:
And Void, why does it matter if you do play WoW? I play WoW, hell why not, its a decent-enough game for the most part. :P
And to the OP. If I had to choose a game that "changed" over time, I would have to say Ryzom fits the bill. It has a tendency to change.
MY RESPONSE:
I think he stated "why" it matters. Because on MMORPG.com, if you play WoW....you WILL get flamed. It's not "kewl" to play WoW, and the WoW Haters Clique is in full force on these forums. Beware! (lol)
Haters....pffft....people that place more value in being "right" than in freedom of choice. Funny thing is....they're not right, OR free themselves.
=============================
Yeah....see above....I still feel the same way. I don't give a RAT'S ASS what you think of what game I'm playing. YOU could take a lesson from that.
......clipped in the interest of saving space.....
You stopped playing before the LFG tool was implemented.
No, I didn't. I stopped playing about a month AFTER the LFG tool was implemented. I lost all interest in the game after they made guilds basically, like I said, obsolete. For ME....that was the final straw. I could copy my payment page from my account and post it here, if you like?
Easy to trace from your posts history.
People "play" games on forums these days instead of playing "in game".
Easy to trace.
ROFL...you're proving nothing but that you...are a desperate WoW fanboi, which is really sad.
Saying that the dual spec means there is less guild play is ridiculous and of course you also don't know the weekly Raids boss quest were introduced to enhance on server Raiding even more.
We already raided three times a week. The "weekly raid boss" did nothing for our guild.
But like I said: you stopped playing before the Dec launch of the LFG tool.
And like I said....you're calling me a liar, when I'm not, only proves your desperation. You really need help.
"Theorizing" on game mechanics don't make sense at all if you no longer play a game.
You should know it after 5 years: WOW changes its mechanics every patch in one way or another (have a look at the new 3.3.3).
Posted on Nov 17th 2009 (and many many times before that post btw).
So since the LFG tool was only implemented with the Dec patch of 2009, you never played it.
Your negative posts on WOW began long before that (I think it had something to do with Lotro), but apparently you ran out of steam with game quite fast.
That just shows the emo state of judging game mechanics without experiencing them.
That's very important to note: IF the comments and critics come from players of the game or NOT.
I had quit for a month in November of 2009, JUST as I said.
I bounced in and out of WoW like a yoyo, like many other people did...TRYING to find some enjoyment in it still, especially since my family was still playing. Would you also like me to post my payment history for the other games so that you can see where my November sub went?
As I said....you're pathetic in your desperation.
I am not the one trying to gain credibilty for stating " I no longer play WOW" and then counter that sentence six times in a row with different posts.
You are no longer an active player. So not credible to me as an active player.
It is that simple. The LFG was named best patch ever by wowinsider.com.
Simply because it was welcomed by the active players. Obvious.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I am not the one trying to gain credibilty for stating " I no longer play WOW" and then counter that sentence six times in a row with different posts.
Where exactly did I do that???
You are no longer an active player. So not credible to me as an active player.
It is that simple. The LFG was named best patch ever by wowinsider.com.
And we all know that THAT makes it SO!
Simply because it was welcomed by the active players. Obvious.
How am I "trying to gain credibility?" Having played WoW for five years, since before YOU started, by the way....if that isn't credibility enough for you....I'm not sure what is. Oh wait...yes, yes I am.
Someone is only CREDIBLE to you if they think EXACTLY the same way YOU do.
There....right there....is the crux of this whole matter, isn't it?
Comments
I don't disagree with your posts.
The only concern I have was raised by a previous poster. When WOW does begin winding down, will the majority of fans shift to other mmos, or will they leave the market altogether? I like to think that WOW has brought in new mmo players (myself included) that are here for the stay. I hope I'm not wrong, but we'll just have to wait and see.
You don't have a concern: you post every other day WOW will go down soon.
You deliberately say "for 2 years now ... 2008". It's 12 months to be exact.
While the subs held the same over a period of Dec 2008 to Dec 2009 with not even an expansion in sight for that year.
That's whishfull thinking and not taking into account the China hic-up and the economical damage to the video game market in 2009 at all.
Oh yes indeed, we all know that new Blizzard launches are ... lackluster in success.
So "wait and see attitude" before posting about upcoming Blizzard games and expansions is the only smart thing to do unless you want to be confronted with Loke666 ... 2007 predictions in the previous page of this thread, which were exactly in the same order and were ... 1200% off on a 3 years margin. (look it up a few posts back). "Hardly 1 M subs in 2010 with 100K left in 2015".
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/271279/page/3
Those "2007 predictions" are good for a jolly good laugh these days and illustrative for the same posts all over these last 3 years. The only difference with today's situation and 2007 ...is that ... Lotro, AoC, War, TR, Hellgate, Aion already were published and it didn't even make a dent...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Its a matter of perspective . If you want a casual game which you can play maybe an hour a day and get somewhere quickly then Warcraft is aimed at you . If you want some challenge in achieving goals and an immersive online world then yes WoW is going downhill . There are some real challenges to be found in Warcraft but they are far too few . When you can level from 1 to 80 within a week of gameplay (total time) and get full epic (welfare gear) within a similar amount of time then its really getting a little too easy . I dont like the term dumbed down because it implicates people that play WoW are dumb but the game is becoming increasingly easier or is that more accessable . I would love to see it offer something similar to what it once was . Thats unlikly to happen so I'm hoping a game that will come along that will offer the fun factor but offer the challenge factor too . In the meantime theres plenty of free to play games that offer a diversion .
I would like to know what was the point of this post in the first place; people have been saying this for years and subscription numbers are proving them wrong every time. Just because your experience is what it is, does not mean everyone else' experience will be the same.
I for one left FFXI for WOW, left WOW for Aion, then left Aion to go back to WOW due to disappointment in Aion. To me WoW will only get better with the upcoming expansion, as I read the changes I am excited with all anticipation.
Anyhow, posting this to me sounds too much like the continuing echo of those countless posts over the years which has been saying the same thing...with no results.
WoW has played an intricate role in the way alot of games after it has modeled their game play, so to say the game play is boring means your going to have a hard time finding a game that is far different. If you think the game is not massive enough to the point where you ask "Where the heck is everyone?" then I must ask what is the highest lvl you have brought a character to and what server do you play on? In the entry areas you will not find as much players. You may find several people lvling alts or even ppl on trial accounts, but for the most parteveryone will be in the major cities or higher lvl areas.
If you play on a low population server then OF COURSE you will have the right to ask where the heck is everyone. There is a server list which tells you the population of every server, if you want massive then pick massive, if you want pvp then pick pvp, if you want PVE then pick it. It sounds to me like you haven't truly explored your options, I may be wrong but I doubt it from the tone of your post.
I don't disagree with your posts.
The only concern I have was raised by a previous poster. When WOW does begin winding down, will the majority of fans shift to other mmos, or will they leave the market altogether? I like to think that WOW has brought in new mmo players (myself included) that are here for the stay. I hope I'm not wrong, but we'll just have to wait and see.
The important point isn't if wow is declining or not. It will happen at some point and nothing can stop that.
The important point will become WHY it declines.
If wow starts to decline simply because people are bored of it and leave the genre that does no one any good. It will not make other mmos any better or keep funding any higher. It will just shrink the genre.
If wow starts to decline as a result of other games finally getting their act together and offering some real competition that is a great thing and make no mistake, competition is exactly what this market needs right now.
I have said this before, the only reason wow dominates the market so much is due to the poor condition of other mmos.
The fanbots are of course free to say what they will but there's no denying that WoW is beginning to lose its steam:
Blizzard's net revenues decreased for the year ended December 31, 2009 as compared to 2008 primarily due to no new releases in 2009 and an interruption of licensing royalties for World of Warcraft in China from June 2009 to September 2009 as a result of a license transfer. This compared to 2008 with the successful November 2008 release of the second expansion pack of World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King. This decrease was partially offset by an increase in other value added service revenues.
Blizzard's net revenues increased for the year ended December 31, 2008 as compared to 2007 primarily due to the release of the second expansion pack of World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King in November 2008 and an increase in the number of World of Warcraft subscribers.
----------------
The one thing that I would like to point out is the fact that - "an interruption of licensing royalties for World of Warcraft in China from June 2009 to September 2009 - isn't really relevant even if Blizzard feels compelled to state it in their investor report.
Why you ask? Because, if we were to compare January through September of 2009 to the same period of time in 2008, we'd find that WoW INCREASED its revenue by $111 Million USD ($828M vs $939M). So clearly the China incident wasn't such a big deal, after all not only did it not cost Blizzard money but somehow during that period of time they managed to rake in an additional $111M. We also know that there was no real subscriber growth in 2009, so the increased revenue isn't from increased subs.
Which does bring up an interesting question. Where did that $111M come from anyways? Considering that WoW accounted for 98% of all of Blizzard's revenue in 2009 (97% in 2007 and 2008)...well...it's an interesting question that I don't have an answer to.
Source: http://investor.activision.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1047469-10-1649
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why do people care either way honestly. its pretty funny that people can get so worked up over something that literally doesn't put money in their own pockets.
LOL WOW going down hill is STILL better thank 85 percent of the MMO's out there. Seriously.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
The problem with Blizzard is...
they take their sweet time to release new expansions and games.
Yes, they are kings in the polish department, but sometimes they take so long they lose the initiative in the marketplace. You will see this when some new MMO's come out in 2010/2011.
The "doom and gloom" statement was of course not directed at you. It was as I said a comment on those who make "predictions" based on their personal opinions in an distinctly apocalyptic manner. "WoW is dying because I don't like it". I belive you've misunderstood my post, possibly due to my lack of clarity. I'm not a native english speaker so that will have to do for my defense.
I would claim that given the economical climate 0 growth is not a terrible result. I do concede to your point though, losing steam is within the parameters of what we know. What remains to be seen is if it is a short term trend or if it is longer term. this is the crux of the argument.
Personally I have an interest in the well being of the product I pay for and enjoy; though I have little to worry about as such. I do not have one in these forum discussions though I just make a point out of pointing out the faulty reasoning prevalent in this thread. As such your post was good and I tried to give you props for it, aside from the fanbot comment, though I might have failed at doing so. The investors report does not offend me nor do I have any strong feeling of it either way regarding it, it reports a quiet year with moderate results given the economic climate as well as optimism for the next year. I have not at any point dragged in my personal preferences and I make sure to distinguish between what is opinion and what is fact/analysis.
If you wish to arrest anyone on this I should be far from the biggest suspect. Given the company the other "fanbots" and me are beacons of rationality, though with this competition it does seem nearly rigged. A honest reading of this tread should easily show that the "haters" (though I'm reluctant to use the word) are far more likely to engage in applying their preferences as fact.
that's the term i was looking for.. "instant gratification" ... QFT. I'll go play something that's a challenge like mahjong....
WOW is going down hill is because the devs are gettin lazy. It's been five years and we have barely seen any action when it comes to adding fresh character content to the game. By this I mean it's been five years and all we ever got were 2 new races and 1 new "heroic" class that got nerfed historically ever since it was released? DKs are fun but if WOW is actually is big as they want you to believe adding at least 2 more new classes should be no problem especially with amount of material blzzard has to work with.
The PVE aspect of this game has certainly has taken a turn for the worst. When ICC first came the 3 new instances were definitely attractive and ICC was why most people resubbed. Although, what at the time seemed like a turn around for the game with the new LFG system and the new instances and raid was actually the wow killer.
With LFG you could run a group with cross realm groups making it easy to attain badges. With that being said people jumped into heroics like never before, bought t9 and headed into toc10 and ony 10/25. After about less than a month they attained the proper gear from toc10 then headed into toc25. At this point most raids were obsolete i.e. Ulduar, Naxx, and Ony, so, naturally the next step was ICC10. Eventually, again, after less than a month these players were becoming ICC geared from the boss drops themselves or by using frost badges that dropped from the ICC bosses and by doing your first heroic of the day and the weekly raid. The daily heroic gave you 2 frost badges and the weekly raid gave you 5 frost badges.
That being said, these people were now on their road to enjoying the riches of WOW being ICC geared, moving up the ranks, passed the first four bosses, then into the plague wing, then into the blood wing, and then into the frost wing. Thing is most the players never even made it passed the plague wing, and when their group failed it was either icc25 time because you are saved and have to wait a week before raiding the same raid again or play your alt. And if you can't even pass the plague wing in 10 man you can forget about it on 25 man.
Basically, the game is going down hill. The game has become very monotonous. At end game for me now it appears that all I can do on my main is the weekly raid which is to kill one raid boss. Do my daily heroic, raid ICC10/25 til the BQ and then simply repeat because the rest of the content has become obsolete and there's no reason for me to bother unless I'm helping to gear my guildies. I'm basically subbed for this one raid that's starting to make me nauseous with how routine it has all become. Big routine trash pulls and then anal routine boss encounters, no variety what's so ever. Everything is the same ALL THE TIME.
The game has gone downhill and there's simply nothing there currently to keep me subbed. I enjoy gearing myself up as much as the next guy but at this point I can barely bring myself to log into the game. I could either make my 3rd alt or simply just quit for a while and wait for Cataclysm to come out. But even with that said I still won't see any new classes in the expansion just "revamped" zones and probably 3 new raids at max that will end up canceling each other out gear wise. And somewhere down the road blizzard will release a 4th cataclysm raid that will cancel out those 3, and the vicious cycle will keep on turning because people buy into this hype of 12 million people played blah blah blah.
"Everything the light touches is our kingdom" -- Mufasa
---
omg another "wow is a crappy game and its going downhill even though its packed with people and i played it for years" thread. im re subbing and so are two of my homeys. been out for a few months now its time to jump back in. do you have any idea how many people probably do exactly what me and my friends are doing? wow is king. hate it or love it its like the new york yankees of mmos. this thread now has over 50 posts and its just like a million other threads that have been posted over the past half decade. what does that tell you.
uber black and red temple of nod gaming case
4 fuckin gigs of random access memory
ge force chopper sick balls over 9000 vid card bra
holy shit im bragging about my computer to play mmo's processor!
omg another wow is a crappy game and is going downhill yet it's packed with people who played it for years thread.
"Everything the light touches is our kingdom" -- Mufasa
---
QFT, pretty much what i am trying to say in a nutshell....
I think some of the disappointment and outright loathing from previous WoW players MAY stem directly from this one inarguable fact, and that is:
The game has evolved into something that we did NOT sign up to play. It is becoming a dim reflection of what it once was, in terms of community (first and foremost), but also in terms of game play itself, class roles and interdependence, and over all sense of things being EPIC...from instances and raids, to armor, and many things in between.
Various items and achievements (BEFORE there was such a thing as an achievements "feature") that used to be special accomplishments, have now become common, almost mundane, and widely the "norm," to have "achieved," thereby making them feel shallow, neutering them of their "epic"-ness, so to speak.
When many of the WoW vets that have now left the game started playing, WoW was an entirely different animal than it is today. Some proclaim it has gotten better, but...there are a good many of those people that say that, that were not part of the WoW beta or vanilla WoW experience, and did not watch (sometimes in horror) the process of this evolution to what WoW is today. It's a pretty empty, hollow, and meaningless thing for some of us to hear how much "better" it has gotten, from people that were not around in the very beginning. The same conversations took place after SWG's NGE and UO's Trammel, didn't they? Sometimes games just evolve into something that the original core player base....doesn't really care for. So...they move on.
I think most ex-WoW players that fall into the above category have no problem admitting that they enjoyed WoW as it once was. However, over the course of the past five years, we (I really only speak for myself here) have watched it gradually be chipped away at, slowly eroding away some of the very things many of us played for to begin with.
Personally, I eventually reached a point in the game where, with a handful of max level characters and all of the crafting skills maxed except for blacksmithing, that I was almost totally self-sufficient, had all the tier gear I desired, had run all the raids until I could do most of them in my sleep, and was therefore relegated (pretty much) to either running the same things I'd run 100 times AGAIN, for the 101st time, grinding the few factions I had left for rep, trying to find achievements I hadn't done yet, that often required running the SAME things again for the 101st time, or just hopping from toon to toon doing all the EXACT SAME DAILIES on each of my max level characters back to back, or farming mats to make gold that I had absolutely NOTHING I wanted to spend it on.
Honestly...I'm not "angry." I'm a bit disillusioned, yes, but angry? No. Bored? Yes, certainly. But to be fair....the game "lasted" for 4-5 years for me. No, that's not on par with EQ or UO or other games that are still keeping people "plugged in" many more years down the road, but...my time in WoW did last longer than my first marriage! BONUS! (Slight sarcasm there.)
So I don't really know what we expect from MMOs. How long are they "supposed" to hold our interest? 5 years? 10 years? 20? Indefinitely?
I think it's a perfectly normal thing for people to move on to something new after five years, or more, or less....when we're simply talking about recreational activities. WoW is entertaining to a different group of people now (in a large part) than it was initially. I'm not sure that's necessarily a BAD thing. For Blizzard...it's good. They have managed to make their game enjoyable to a broad range of people spread out over the course of 5 years. The fact that it isn't necessarily the SAME people...is probably a bit of a moot issue to THEM. And to those of us that have moved on....is it really such a bad thing that we managed to squeeze several years of fun out of a game? There will be other games. There will probably be other games we'll like a LOT more than we did WoW, so...I don't know....it's really, in the end (in my opinion) a win/win situation.
Not playing WoW has given me time to do a lot of other fun things in RL and also time to try other games, several of which I have immensely enjoyed and continue to enjoy.
Is Warcraft going downhill? Meh. Do any of us REALLY care that much? If it does....it does. If it doesn't....does it really matter? For me....it did indeed gradually slide down the hill into a pit of soul-less muck. But that doesn't mean everyone should feel that way about it. There will certainly be people that follow us out the door. There will be people that stay. One way or the other....I'm happy to have had a few good years with WoW, and happier even still....to be away from it now enjoying other things.
It's all good.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Of course,
Just above this post is a personal rattle about how one person feels about the game after having played it for 5 years....
How much confidence one can have ?
People who can't analyse what this game is about and how it effected and effects a complete generation of PC gamers just can't seem to grasp the mechanics behind the game.
What's most disturbing is that they want to evaluate "WOW", while "WOW" they talk about has already changed so much, they have no clue what they talk about.
One example: I am leveling a druid class, I am having steatlh fun, and I stumble upon quests which end in a dungeon. 2 years ago I would have deleted the quest.
Now I subscribe to the dungeon, I await 30 minutes, maybe even 40, but within a nice time frame, the dungeon pops up and I can play it. Oh dear, we have a problem with a healer, no problem ... let me respec and we'll await the dps.
It simply changed in gaming fun: somebody has to come in here and spoil that fun for us active players... just because they decided that in their life the game got "worse".
No it didn't : Blizzard upgraded the playing value and video gameplay fun compared to waisting a good deal of your life in meaningless old hat MMO's with time sinks bigger than your eternal lost youth could ever make up for.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Of course,
Just above this post is a personal rattle about how one person feels about the game after having played it for 5 years....
I guess 5 years of playing it doesn't translate as experience with the game to you. And you obviously didn't bother to read it. I said some fairly kind things about your pet game. You might have even approved. LOL
How much confidence one can have ?
When it comes to WoW...I have plenty of confidence that I know what I'm talking about. It's not like I logged in and played for a month and never returned.
People who can't analyse what this game is about and how it effected and effects a complete generation of PC gamers just can't seem to grasp the mechanics behind the game.
What's most disturbing is that they want to evaluate "WOW", while "WOW" they talk about has already changed so much, they have no clue what they talk about.
I played it for 5 full years. I was there up to and past the addition of the 24 Hour PuG LFG "tool." I think I know what I'm talking about. As I said...I've watched the game since BEFORE release. I've been there THROUGH all the changes.
One example: I am leveling a druid class, I am having steatlh fun, and I stumble upon quests which end in a dungeon. 2 years ago I would have deleted the quest.
Two years ago I would have gotten together with a bunch of my guildies that I had been getting to know and playing the game with for the last three years before that, and we would have gone and run it together on our alts and had a BLAST, laughing, remembering the first time we ran it and poking fun at each other about the mistakes we used to make, etc.
Now I subscribe to the dungeon, I await 30 minutes, maybe even 40, but within a nice time frame, the dungeon pops up and I can play it. Oh dear, we have a problem with a healer, no problem ... let me respec and we'll await the dps.
Dual spec classes (by the way, I have a lvl 80 resto/cat dual spec druid) have been in place longer than the LFG tool. But I'm sure you knew this. Yes, very handy dual spec. Such a time saver. Allows guilds to only make use of half the people they needed before while they're running instances, but wait...most don't even group with their guilds anymore....they just PuG their way to welfare epics...so...nevermind that comment. /rolls eyes I personally LOATHE the new "PuG The World System." It has made guilds pretty much obsolete for anything other than the highest end raiding.
It simply changed in gaming fun: somebody has to come in here and spoil that fun for us active players... just because they decided that in their life the game got "worse".
NOTE: This is YOUR opinion...just like others are posting THEIR opinions. Yours is not better than anyone elses, it is simply how you personally feel about it. You're not "right." You just have an opinion that differs from that of other people. And how does it "spoil your fun" to see other people have differing opinions? If it does....you need to seek counseling about that. Someone elses opinion should not affect your own level of enjoyment.
No it didn't : Blizzard upgraded the playing value and video gameplay fun compared to waisting a good deal of your life in meaningless old hat MMO's with time sinks bigger than your eternal lost youth could ever make up for.
Again....your opinion, that somehow you think trumps everyone elses opinion. It doesn't. It's no more or less valid than what anyone else thinks. You're 30 years old...you really should know better. Forums are for voicing opinions and not everyone is going to agree with you. This is how life is, as well, but at your age...I'd think you'd know that, brush it off, and go on.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Of course,
Just above this post is a personal rattle about how one person feels about the game after having played it for 5 years....
I guess 5 years of playing it doesn't translate as experience with the game to you.
How much confidence one can have ?
When it comes to WoW...I have plenty of confidence that I know what I'm talking about. It's not like I logged in and played for a month and never returned.
People who can't analyse what this game is about and how it effected and effects a complete generation of PC gamers just can't seem to grasp the mechanics behind the game.
What's most disturbing is that they want to evaluate "WOW", while "WOW" they talk about has already changed so much, they have no clue what they talk about.
I played it for 5 full years. I was there up to and past the addition of the 24 Hour PuG LFG "tool." I think I know what I'm talking about. As I said...I've watched the game since BEFORE release. I've been there THROUGH all the changes.
One example: I am leveling a druid class, I am having steatlh fun, and I stumble upon quests which end in a dungeon. 2 years ago I would have deleted the quest.
Two years ago I would have gotten together with a bunch of my guildies that I had been getting to know and playing the game with for the last three years before that, and we would have gone and run it together on our alts and had a BLAST, laughing, remembering the first time we ran it and poking fun at each other about the mistakes we used to make, etc.
Now I subscribe to the dungeon, I await 30 minutes, maybe even 40, but within a nice time frame, the dungeon pops up and I can play it. Oh dear, we have a problem with a healer, no problem ... let me respec and we'll await the dps.
Dual spec classes (by the way, I have a lvl 80 resto/cat dual spec druid) have been in place longer than the LFG tool. But I'm sure you knew this. Yes, very handy dual spec. Such a time saver. Allows guilds to only make use of half the people they needed before while they're running instances, but wait...most don't even group with their guilds anymore....they just PuG their way to welfare epics...so...nevermind that comment. /rolls eyes I personally LOATHE the new "PuG The World System." It has made guilds pretty much obsolete for anything other than the highest end raiding.
It simply changed in gaming fun: somebody has to come in here and spoil that fun for us active players... just because they decided that in their life the game got "worse".
NOTE: This is YOUR opinion...just like others are posting THEIR opinions. Yours in not better than anyone elses, it is simply how you personally fell about it. You're not "right." You just have an opinion that differs from that of other people. And how does it "spoil your fun" to see other people have differing opinions? If it does....you need to seek counseling about that. Someone elses opinion should not affect your own level of enjoyment.
No it didn't : Blizzard upgraded the playing value and video gameplay fun compared to waisting a good deal of your life in meaningless old hat MMO's with time sinks bigger than your eternal lost youth could ever make up for.
Again....your opinion, that somehow you think trumps everyone elses opinion. It doesn't. It's no more or less valid than what anyone else thinks.
You stopped playing before the LFG tool was implemented.
Easy to trace from your posts history.
People "play" games on forums these days instead of playing "in game".
Easy to trace.
Saying that the dual spec means there is less guild play is ridiculous and of course you also don't know the weekly Raids boss quest were introduced to enhance on server Raiding even more.
But like I said: you stopped playing before the Dec launch of the LFG tool.
"Theorizing" on game mechanics don't make sense at all if you no longer play a game.
You should know it after 5 years: WOW changes its mechanics every patch in one way or another (have a look at the new 3.3.3).
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
You stopped playing before the LFG tool was implemented.
No, I didn't. I stopped playing about a month AFTER the LFG tool was implemented. I lost all interest in the game after they made guilds basically, like I said, obsolete. For ME....that was the final straw. I could copy my payment page from my account and post it here, if you like?
Easy to trace from your posts history.
People "play" games on forums these days instead of playing "in game".
Easy to trace.
ROFL...you're proving nothing but that you...are a desperate WoW fanboi, which is really sad.
Saying that the dual spec means there is less guild play is ridiculous and of course you also don't know the weekly Raids boss quest were introduced to enhance on server Raiding even more.
We already raided three times a week. The "weekly raid boss" did nothing for our guild.
But like I said: you stopped playing before the Dec launch of the LFG tool.
And like I said....you're calling me a liar, when I'm not, only proves your desperation. You really need help.
"Theorizing" on game mechanics don't make sense at all if you no longer play a game.
You should know it after 5 years: WOW changes its mechanics every patch in one way or another (have a look at the new 3.3.3).
Copy and Paste doesn't LOOK very good, but if you like....I can try to figure out how to screenshot this?
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As you can see....I even resubbed a couple of times TRYING to give the game more chances to continue earning money from me. My son and partner were still playing...I resubbed and TRIED to enjoy it, but....it lost it's "sparkle," and I eventually just said, the hell with it.
Now if you'd like for me to screenshot this and try to SHRINK it to fit the image here....I will. And frankly....I didn't NEED to prove anything to you. Your desperation is a sad sad thing when you resort to calling other people liars without any evidence that they are lying. Pathetic. Really.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
You stopped playing before the LFG tool was implemented.
No, I didn't. I stopped playing about a month AFTER the LFG tool was implemented. I lost all interest in the game after they made guilds basically, like I said, obsolete. For ME....that was the final straw. I could copy my payment page from my account and post it here, if you like?
Easy to trace from your posts history.
People "play" games on forums these days instead of playing "in game".
Easy to trace.
ROFL...you're proving nothing but that you...are a desperate WoW fanboi, which is really sad.
Saying that the dual spec means there is less guild play is ridiculous and of course you also don't know the weekly Raids boss quest were introduced to enhance on server Raiding even more.
We already raided three times a week. The "weekly raid boss" did nothing for our guild.
But like I said: you stopped playing before the Dec launch of the LFG tool.
And like I said....you're calling me a liar, when I'm not, only proves your desperation. You really need help.
"Theorizing" on game mechanics don't make sense at all if you no longer play a game.
You should know it after 5 years: WOW changes its mechanics every patch in one way or another (have a look at the new 3.3.3).
Posted on Nov 17th 2009 (and many many times before that post btw).
"I don't play WOW anymore".
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/userPosts/666329/page/54
So since the LFG tool was only implemented with the Dec patch of 2009, you never played it.
Your negative posts on WOW began long before that (I think it had something to do with Lotro), but apparently you ran out of steam with game quite fast.
That just shows the emo state of judging game mechanics without experiencing them.
That's very important to note: IF the comments and critics come from players of the game or NOT.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
You stopped playing before the LFG tool was implemented.
No, I didn't. I stopped playing about a month AFTER the LFG tool was implemented. I lost all interest in the game after they made guilds basically, like I said, obsolete. For ME....that was the final straw. I could copy my payment page from my account and post it here, if you like?
Easy to trace from your posts history.
People "play" games on forums these days instead of playing "in game".
Easy to trace.
ROFL...you're proving nothing but that you...are a desperate WoW fanboi, which is really sad.
Saying that the dual spec means there is less guild play is ridiculous and of course you also don't know the weekly Raids boss quest were introduced to enhance on server Raiding even more.
We already raided three times a week. The "weekly raid boss" did nothing for our guild.
But like I said: you stopped playing before the Dec launch of the LFG tool.
And like I said....you're calling me a liar, when I'm not, only proves your desperation. You really need help.
"Theorizing" on game mechanics don't make sense at all if you no longer play a game.
You should know it after 5 years: WOW changes its mechanics every patch in one way or another (have a look at the new 3.3.3).
Posted on Nov 17th 2009 (and many many times before that post btw).
"I don't play WOW anymore".
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/userPosts/666329/page/54
So since the LFG tool was only implemented with the Dec patch of 2009, you never played it.
Your negative posts on WOW began long before that (I think it had something to do with Lotro), but apparently you ran out of steam with game quite fast.
That just shows the emo state of judging game mechanics without experiencing them.
That's very important to note: IF the comments and critics come from players of the game or NOT.
I had quit for a month in November of 2009, JUST as I said.
I bounced in and out of WoW like a yoyo, like many other people did...TRYING to find some enjoyment in it still, especially since my family was still playing. Would you also like me to post my payment history for the other games so that you can see where my November sub went?
As I said....you're pathetic in your desperation.
BY THEY WAY....I also pay for and play, quite often, more than ONE MMO at a time. So again....your attempt to discredit me is desperate, pathetic, and idiotic. I no longer like a game YOU like....and you are SO bent out of shape by that that you call me a liar and proceed with this type of harrassment?
Really, you need to grow up. I don't believe that you're 30 years old. You're behaving more like a child.
==============================
THIS POST you're talking about in November....isn't even me SAYING I don't play WoW....I was encouraging someone else to NOT CARE whether someone thought badly of THEM for playing WoW. Your reading comprehension is ALSO terrible!
Originally posted by Splinki
Originally posted by TheHatter
Fallen Earth is the only one I can think of that's similiar.
Originally posted by voidchaser
And before I get flamed No I don't play WoW.
Yeah, I'm playing FE and I was wondering if you could explain that further?
Someone else response to void:
And Void, why does it matter if you do play WoW? I play WoW, hell why not, its a decent-enough game for the most part. :P
And to the OP. If I had to choose a game that "changed" over time, I would have to say Ryzom fits the bill. It has a tendency to change.
MY RESPONSE:
I think he stated "why" it matters. Because on MMORPG.com, if you play WoW....you WILL get flamed. It's not "kewl" to play WoW, and the WoW Haters Clique is in full force on these forums. Beware! (lol)
Haters....pffft....people that place more value in being "right" than in freedom of choice. Funny thing is....they're not right, OR free themselves.
=============================
Yeah....see above....I still feel the same way. I don't give a RAT'S ASS what you think of what game I'm playing. YOU could take a lesson from that.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
You stopped playing before the LFG tool was implemented.
No, I didn't. I stopped playing about a month AFTER the LFG tool was implemented. I lost all interest in the game after they made guilds basically, like I said, obsolete. For ME....that was the final straw. I could copy my payment page from my account and post it here, if you like?
Easy to trace from your posts history.
People "play" games on forums these days instead of playing "in game".
Easy to trace.
ROFL...you're proving nothing but that you...are a desperate WoW fanboi, which is really sad.
Saying that the dual spec means there is less guild play is ridiculous and of course you also don't know the weekly Raids boss quest were introduced to enhance on server Raiding even more.
We already raided three times a week. The "weekly raid boss" did nothing for our guild.
But like I said: you stopped playing before the Dec launch of the LFG tool.
And like I said....you're calling me a liar, when I'm not, only proves your desperation. You really need help.
"Theorizing" on game mechanics don't make sense at all if you no longer play a game.
You should know it after 5 years: WOW changes its mechanics every patch in one way or another (have a look at the new 3.3.3).
Posted on Nov 17th 2009 (and many many times before that post btw).
"I don't play WOW anymore".
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/userPosts/666329/page/54
So since the LFG tool was only implemented with the Dec patch of 2009, you never played it.
Your negative posts on WOW began long before that (I think it had something to do with Lotro), but apparently you ran out of steam with game quite fast.
That just shows the emo state of judging game mechanics without experiencing them.
That's very important to note: IF the comments and critics come from players of the game or NOT.
I had quit for a month in November of 2009, JUST as I said.
I bounced in and out of WoW like a yoyo, like many other people did...TRYING to find some enjoyment in it still, especially since my family was still playing. Would you also like me to post my payment history for the other games so that you can see where my November sub went?
As I said....you're pathetic in your desperation.
I am not the one trying to gain credibilty for stating " I no longer play WOW" and then counter that sentence six times in a row with different posts.
You are no longer an active player. So not credible to me as an active player.
It is that simple. The LFG was named best patch ever by wowinsider.com.
Simply because it was welcomed by the active players. Obvious.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I am not the one trying to gain credibilty for stating " I no longer play WOW" and then counter that sentence six times in a row with different posts.
Where exactly did I do that???
You are no longer an active player. So not credible to me as an active player.
It is that simple. The LFG was named best patch ever by wowinsider.com.
And we all know that THAT makes it SO!
Simply because it was welcomed by the active players. Obvious.
How am I "trying to gain credibility?" Having played WoW for five years, since before YOU started, by the way....if that isn't credibility enough for you....I'm not sure what is. Oh wait...yes, yes I am.
Someone is only CREDIBLE to you if they think EXACTLY the same way YOU do.
There....right there....is the crux of this whole matter, isn't it?
LOL...grow up, young padawan.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club