City of Heroes: Marvel sues NCsoft over City of Heroes

Meddle

Gamespot is reporting that the legendary comic book company has filed suit against NCsoft for copyright infringement. Here is a portion of the story:

The subject of the legal action is City of Heroes, NCsoft and Cryptic's massively multiplayer online role-playing game. Marvel is claiming that the character customization functionality in City of Heroes allows players to create superheroes that closely resemble trademarked Marvel characters. According to the AP, Marvel singled out a "mutant-based" clone of X-Men member Wolverine and "a gigantic, green, 'science-based tanker'-type hero that moves and behaves nearly identically" to the Hulk.

Click here to read the full story.

XanderZane

Marvel needs to give it a rest. I could understand if they were flat broke and on the verge of Bankruptcy again, but they are loaded with million and million of dollars from all the X-Men and Spiderman movies and games. It would be hard to believe that Marvel itself hasn't infringed on someone's elses heroes in the past without even knowing it.

NCSoft also has strict guidelines in place that doesn't allow anyone to name their characters after any DC or Marvel characters. So even though a character is a giant and green, it doesn't mean it's The Hulk. It could be Mr. Humongous or something. Marvel just wantd to shutdown a successful superhero MMO type game so they can release one of their own. If that ever happened, I would never buy another Marvel comic again and definitely wouldn't play their MMO game.

Xander

code

i saw this comming

 

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Ignorance is Bliss

Thor79

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Originally posted by code
i saw this comming

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and I'm sure everyone else including NCSoft did too. They probably already had their defense strategy planned out as this was just inevitable.

and I agree...Marvel needs to let it be...the only people they're hurting with this is their customers...

protoroc

i think its bunk....first off a marvel MMO would suck...we'd still not be allowed to play any chars in thier universe...ie u still couldnt be wolverine

Puoltry

Bottom line here is Marvel isnt making ANY cash over playerr created content involving it characters.Just to use an example what if you discovered a person dressing exactly like you using your name and doing things AS you?

Oh and they were making lets say 250k per month?(id sue to).

If marvel wins this suit you can look forward to ALL marvel likenesses to be deleted and the costume creator to be dumbed down.Personally i dont see how they could lose.

Danlman

I am red hot mad.  

I am proposing an all out boycott of everything Marvel, this includeds Spiderman 3. I am sick and tired big corporations bullying and pushing everyone else around and ruining our entertainment. From now own every comic book I purchase and movie I attend will either be from DC comics or under another publisher. Lets hit 'em where they so obviously care the most, their bottom line.

Daniel H.

"All is Vanity" - Solomon

bulliwyf

Boycott Marvel.

 

Puoltry

What i dont understand is why people get upset over this.They OWN and have owned the rights to the characters for a LONGTIME.I think they have every right to sue over this.

Name one reason other than "they already have enough money" that marvel should NOT sue NCSOFT over this.

For that matter what makes you CoH players think that NCSOFT is a small little startup company?They are not they are just as big a corporate giant as Marvel or SOE for that matter.

What should have been done by NCSOFT is show corporate responsibility from day one and not let the players make Wolverine,Hulk,or anything even close to anything Marvel owns outright.Hey say what you will about the evil corporate giant but cash makes the world go around.

NCSOFT is the company that is screwing its players here not Marvel.NCSOFT had an opprotunity to police its player population and they failed.Now its customers are going to suffer with the possibilty of having either the game shutdown or the costume creator being dumbed down.

You CoH players need to take a step back and look at what NCSOFT did to you not what Marvel is doing to NCSOFT.

Nevarine

Well this just makes me sick.

NCsoft should not be held responsible for the characters their players create. If characters that closely resemble marvel characters are created they should take this as a compliment.

Grats Marvel on proving what small petty minded individuals you are.

Puoltry

Id actually like to see the boycott attempt.Saying your going to boycott Marvel is like saying the same thing about Mcdonald's.
Mcdonalds owns many restaraunt chains. Chipolte,Boston market,Donatos pizza.Do you really think for a second that Marvel just does comic books?
The same thing goes with SONY.Try to boycott SOE it doesnt matter SONY corporate has their hands in everything not just electronics.They own a lot of music,movies computers etc etc.

Good luck with that boycott!!!!

Zackxm

This suit is a joke. If ncsoft loses this it will be a disaster to the gaming industry. Where will it stop then? If you make a barbnarian in EQ/EQ2 and name him Connan will the owners to rights of Conan be suing? The game companies will have to limit player customization so bad that every game will suck and everyone will quit playing mmpogs.

DarthSka

I think Marvel should also sue every company that produces green markers. You see, by selling green markers you are giving the public the tools re-create various Marvel super-heroes. Obviously this is copyright infringement.

Crayola is screwed.

omega_star

Id like to say that this move by Marvel is seen as really really stupid in the CoH community because of the following reasons

1. Most of us dont see that marvel or DC clones hurt anyone and i at least feel sorry for 'cloners' as they dont seem to hold an orginal thought in there head

2. People in my guild who held Marvel subscriptions have canceled them and as there is about 100-250 thousand people that are on CoH and if only 25% are marvel readers and a if 40% cancel there subscription that is a cool mill which any company would not like to lose

3. It's stated in the artical that Marvel want to launch a MMO in 2005. Who are going to be the core market for the this mmo? yes CoH players and many will migrate as it is likely to be better. If they are going to ruin cryptic then pissing off your core market for a game is not a smart move.   

If you stare in to the void the void stares back

omega_star

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Originally posted by Puoltry

What should have been done by NCSOFT is show corporate responsibility from day one and not let the players make Wolverine,Hulk,or anything even close to anything Marvel owns outright.Hey say what you will about the evil corporate giant but cash makes the world go around.

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you do realise about the hulk thing they are sueing for the way it moves i mean that is really petty but i do feel that this may bring things into prospective

If you stare in to the void the void stares back

Harafnir

This was mentioned so many times beofre release, thousands of post abotu the danger of cutting the corners too close to existing super heroes...

And stillt hey release all the building blocks for Wolverine in game.. Had they not doen that, then the Hulk would have passed, no one owns the color green, but with TWO builds that are complete rip offs... When we saw the first screen shots of Wolvie copies, we wondered if they dared to release that...

 

Now we know. I am not surprised.. I do nto think that many are... I just wondered why they thought they could get away with it. It is not like they game would have fallen without "Claws". Now.. it will.

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Waiting for WoW, all of a sudden. Damn open beta.
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Puoltry

The person/company that OWNS the right to the name Conan would have every right to sue.You guys need to get with the real world here.Its not about the color green or pencils.Those 2 characters are so similar to the real thing Marvel had no choice.
Go read the article on usa today.The lawsuit itself is very similar to the napster suit.They let these people create characters on THEIR servers not someone else's.Napster let people trade music on THEIR servers not someone else's.

If someone stole your persona and used it without your consent to make money,aLOT of money what would you do?Your persona became a household name.The way you dressed became identifiable with 3 generations of people?What if said person made 250k a month off of you and didnt pay you one stickin dime?Because that is EXACTLY what we are talking about here.

The X-Men and The Hulk are easily recognized by 3 or 4 generations of people around the whole world.Marvel is a company that has worked for the instant recognition of both.This was an issue from day one launch of CoH.

EVERYONE knew it.

What did NCSOFT do to stop it?Nothing not one thing.Who ultimatley will suffer?

The fans of CoH.

Imho they have already lost the case.

Unless they pay for the license to have these characters in game like Mcdonalds does to have the rights to sell Disney merchandise.

Marvel is merely protecting what they see as their property.

This would not have even been an issue if NCSOFT had stopped it from day one.It would have been "oh well i cant be wolverine" and the player would be forced to use his imagination.

DarthSka

Now if NC would've advertised that you could "make a character justl like Marvell's <fill in blank>", then Marvell would have a point. Or if NC had an NPC walking around in Yellow tights, claws, and callinge everybody "bub", then there would be a problem.

You simply can't sue someone because they made tools available for other people to infringe (like sue-ing Crayola because someone drew a picture of the Hulk). The real people who infringed were the people who made copycat characters. Not NCsoft.

As was stated earlier... a Marvell victory here would create an incredible precedent. Every game maker would have to go through every comic book in history and make sure they're not including any characteristic that has ever been used on any character ever.

Side Note: I don't even play COH but this pisses me of. Marvell should know better. Public opionion is more important than this quarter's financial statement. If they want people to play their future MMORPG, then make a better game. Very dishonorable.

Bigx

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Originally posted by Danlman

I am red hot mad.  
I am proposing an all out boycott of everything Marvel, this includeds Spiderman 3. I am sick and tired big corporations bullying and pushing everyone else around and ruining our entertainment. From now own every comic book I purchase and movie I attend will either be from DC comics or under another publisher. Lets hit 'em where they so obviously care the most, their bottom line.

Daniel H.
"All is Vanity" - Solomon

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Yeah I agree with you bigtime.  The lawsuit for you might possible get close to there char?  Big deal.  Just another ploy by a large company pushing around who they want.  You still can't name it Hulk.  Sad to think large corps have to sue to show how much power they have now aday.  Sounds like they want to do something with a mmo.  This isnt the way to do it.  Had respect and like marvel until I seen this.

Why don't Marverl trademark super hero and sue DC Comics. 

DarthSka

I hope Marvel is prepared to reap what they have sown when/if they release a MMORPG.

Genjing

So i guess if i go into a fantasy game and create a long haired blonde elf archer named Legolas, then the copyright owners to LOTR can sue them too. Lineage 2 better watch out. Or i can go into WoW and make a Gimli or Aragorn clone just as easily.

The fact that characters similar to the Hulk and Wolverine can be created, is simply a testament to the open-endedness of CoH's character creation system. Its no attempt to steal business from Marvel or other comic companies. I don't play CoH but i'm under the impression that most of the characters are original, and there is a huge variety of ways to customize characters that don't resemble anything owned by Marvel or DC.

Oh, and Marvel.com feedback. Let em know what you think:

http://www.marvel.com/company/feedback.htm

Puoltry

Public opinion does not pay the bills.Heres an idea go to work one day and tell your boss your opinion of something you dont like.More than likely your boss will look at you and ask if your on the clock or not.

I dont get paid for my opinion i get paid for working.I guarantee you if Marvel released a superior product to CoH this would be forgotten in a heartbeat.

I find it amazing how many naive people there are in the world.

Oh yeah its just another corporate giant pushing people around.

Do you have any idea how many jobs they provide down to the street level?Down to the guy who sells the comcs?!?!?The printing presses,the paper provided,the guy who delivers it?Im sure its a damn long list.Yeah go ahead and boycott Marvel more than likely your hurting someone just like you by doing so if its even succesfull.

Just amazing to think how black and white the world is to people sometimes.I guess its just easier to blame big companies for protecting their own interests.

DarthSka

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Public opinion does not pay the bills.Heres an idea go to work one day and tell your boss your opinion of something you dont like.More than likely your boss will look at you and ask if your on the clock or not.

I dont get paid for my opinion i get paid for working.I guarantee you if Marvel released a superior product to CoH this would be forgotten in a heartbeat.

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You are correct, Good public opinion in and of itself does not pay the bills. However a poor public opinion is going to kill you just as fast as any other business related factor. ie...You're going to have trouble sellling anything if your customers don't like you. This is BUS 101. A healthy public opinion is good for business plain and simple.

I'm not sure how me talking with my boss about my personal opinions has any analogy to what I was talking about concerning a business's public opinion rating. You lost me there.

By the way... your boss is a prick.

hydrith

I know that it is in Marvel's interest to sue NCSoft, but this is ridiculous.  In this case, Marvel is looking to put blame down on a company that has no real control over it's players decisions.  NCSoft was nice enough to give players full custimzation capabilities when designing their avatars, and because of a VERY small majority, they face trouble.  I don't know about the rest of you, but Marvel's suit is a bunch of crap.  Rather than chasing the company, Marvel should pursue players who openly violate copyright law.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that comic book companies should attack every player who plays this game.  That's ridiculous.  No, the only people who should face punishment are players who build characters who are named (take Wolverine, I've seen at least 20 different variants, with one or two letters changed) and VERY CLOSELY copy the character's outfit.  For the bulk of players, this would have little effect.  Only the few that choose to be copycats would notice any problems.

In the end, I think that Marvel's pursuit of this wont work out.  NCSoft has probably forseen this, due to the fact that ANY kind of MMORPG takes the risk of creating lookalikes.  One can only imagine how many copycats will appear in The Matrix Online (and do you think that the owners of that franchise will sue?).  In the end, I believe that nothing will come of it.

This is my most humble () opinion, and I could very well be wrong.

MMOs:

Playing:
City of Heroes
Star Wars: Galaxies
EVE-Online
Horizons

Retired:
Planetside
DAoC
FF XI (gave it away...too much to download)
Everquest

Puoltry

By the way i couldnt agree with you more my boss is a prick....but i never mentioned my boss....were you trying to flame me lol!!!!

Even if it is a small majority of players to avoid a lawsuit all NCSOFT has to do is delete those characters deemed offensive to Marvel and the problem goes away.

Oh but then NCSOFT becomes the big bad corporate bad guy that pushes its players around.

Its all about the cash kids even the way NCSOFT will react to this is in the end all about money.Game companies dont make games to lose money NCSOFT is a perfect example.

The ONLY opinion that matters is the one that makes them the most money.Dont think for even a second that this lawsuit isnt for a small amount of cash.Both parties have big bank accounts and even bigger lawyers.

Rikimaru_X

like i said in the other topic:

I love marvel. They actually do have a reason to sue in some points.

CoH is actually not original. Many of the powers are copied form not only Marvel but DC heros as well. Let me draw you the line between originally and copied with the power:

super strength - copied (from many different heros)

the power to control paper - original (from Read or Die) would be cool if it was in CoH

Super Speed - copied (from many diffrent heros)

power to craft (original . . .with mini customization) robots to your usage - pretty original (think of Strider)

power to turn in to a huge gun - original (I have a sega game I own where your either the red or blue character and their evil brother (wears green) can turn into a gun, a tank etc.) I own the game but can't remember the name.