Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
STEAM USERS: YOUR WARNING IS HERE
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
What you dont understand is that Steam is not a "one shot thing" its an active service you get, their servers need to be up and checking for updates, there are constant updates on the client and your games are ready to download at any time day or night, if they feel the chargeback is fraudulent towards them they have every right to deny you any further active services.
Also your policy change would just create a massive loophole in their system, which would mean people would abuse the system until locked from more purchases then start another account, abuse until locked, so on and so forth, while for you this is unthinkable there are hundreds of people trying to hack steam accounts, get access to games illegally all the time, this would just make Steam an easy target.
You have a major flaw with your theory. You just said what they "Steam" feels. As just shown we seen what Steam fetl.. Does' nt make it legal or right. Consumer law allows for the refund thus the bank grants the chargeback.. Sorry but your point seems moot there.
Anyhow, services are a part of their success. They know this going in.. Thats why they don't charge a exteneded download storage fee like others do. And I dont think its mandatory they have to check my purchase, every time i boot it.. I paid, i downloaded it.. Anything they do is their cost, and that's what they are doing and guess what, they are getting funds from another angle for doing just that.. so you are again mislead and point seems moot.
Thanks for sharing though
No you are the one that dont understand, systems like chargeback can be abused because the customer "feels" like doing it, I know how the chargeback system works, all you need to say is that you are not happy or that the product did not meet the standards and they will chargeback while saying this you could just not like the game, or expected something else, or just didnt read information about the product this happens on a daily basis.
Just because you can doesnt mean you should, systems like Chargeback are too ambiguous on when and why should you use it, its up to customer "Feel" to use it or not, and believe it or not most people will take advantage of a system in a dishonest way if it suits them, this is the world we live in, this is why people cannot have this power but this power should be down to a third party that must listen to both sides and analyze the evidence and then decide as it is now any chump can just call in and ask for their money back because now they feel like spending the money on beer instead of the game while saying that the product didnt deliver.
Again you can say what you want but when you do a chargeback on a company which means in other words "Without prior arrangement break a contract with a company by reverting a payment made" they do not have any right or obligation to provide you any further services.
I have only used chargeback once and it was truly a money scam a company without any customer support not even a number to call and I did not receive anything, as a matter of fact I think the person behind it was jailed a couple of months after, this is when you should exercise your right of chargeback, not because you did not like a game, customer support while designed to deter you from making complaints and ask for refunds works if you just politely talk to them and follow their protocol on these things, if the OP has gone through the support system they asked him to he would have got his money back sooner and without any drama.
No, you obviously never done a chargeback and have no clue how it works.. It aint hi, charge this back,
You have to fill out forms and you have to go through loops and hoops.
But thanks for caring..
Kind of a dick move, wouldn't you say?
You are a Steam Subscriber, and as such, you have signed yourself to the Steam Subscriber Agreement.
http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/
4. BILLING, PAYMENT AND OTHER SUBSCRIPTIONS
B. Charges to Your Credit Card.
ALL STEAM FEES ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART.
You agreed to it.
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=5406-WFZC-5519
WHY WOULD A STEAM ACCOUNT BE DISABLED?
There is a Zero-Tolerance policy for any violations of the Steam Subscriber Agreement and Online Code of Conduct. All accounts in a user's possession for any of the following activities will be disabled:
PAYMENT FRAUD
Any fraudulent credit card use, credit card chargebacks, or Paypal chargebacks (regardless of when the transaction occurred).
This is their policy. You agreed to it when you became a Steam member.
Yea, I think it's pretty harsh. A lot of people don't like that part of the agreement. I understand that you're pissed off, but they're not out to get you; everything they've said is already laid out for for when you sign up. You refused to go through the channels, and you got punished for it. I don't really feel bad for you.
Sorry, mate. I bought Assassin's Creed 2 from Steam (the crappy DRM game you're no doubt referring to) and I've had no problems. Well, okay, the only problems I've had have been due to self-righteous and or bored asshole hacker crusaders who decide to attack the Ubisoft servers to "teach 'em a lesson." Still, I haven't had to wait more than 30 minutes to play. I bought the game Thursday, and it's worth every penny (so far).
I'm glad I'm not having your problems, because I haven't tangled with Steam refund policies yet. It's the first game I bought through Steam. Though, given the rest of your post, I'll be a little more weary of it in the future. So, in a way, you kind of helped me. Thanks.
Yes, this is not a great situation, but it sounds like your strong words made them more harsh than need be. Of course, if I bought a game at a physical store, and I did not like it after opening it and playing it, I could not take it back to that store for a refund. So, it does not seem that their policy is unreasonable.
Of course you own the software you paid for, but you do not own the avenue to access it. If you piss off the company, they can refuse to let you access the stuff.
I am not sure why you are surprised or upset. This is normal company behaviour.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Can I see a screenshot of your 2,000 dollar Steam collection? LOL
I don't use steam anymore once I found out I can't play the game without it running. Use Direct2drive. Basically it is steam without any 3rd party software "as far as I know".
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
What you dont understand is that Steam is not a "one shot thing" its an active service you get, their servers need to be up and checking for updates, there are constant updates on the client and your games are ready to download at any time day or night, if they feel the chargeback is fraudulent towards them they have every right to deny you any further active services.
Also your policy change would just create a massive loophole in their system, which would mean people would abuse the system until locked from more purchases then start another account, abuse until locked, so on and so forth, while for you this is unthinkable there are hundreds of people trying to hack steam accounts, get access to games illegally all the time, this would just make Steam an easy target.
You have a major flaw with your theory. You just said what they "Steam" feels. As just shown we seen what Steam fetl.. Does' nt make it legal or right. Consumer law allows for the refund thus the bank grants the chargeback.. Sorry but your point seems moot there.
Anyhow, services are a part of their success. They know this going in.. Thats why they don't charge a exteneded download storage fee like others do. And I dont think its mandatory they have to check my purchase, every time i boot it.. I paid, i downloaded it.. Anything they do is their cost, and that's what they are doing and guess what, they are getting funds from another angle for doing just that.. so you are again mislead and point seems moot.
Thanks for sharing though
No you are the one that dont understand, systems like chargeback can be abused because the customer "feels" like doing it, I know how the chargeback system works, all you need to say is that you are not happy or that the product did not meet the standards and they will chargeback while saying this you could just not like the game, or expected something else, or just didnt read information about the product this happens on a daily basis.
Just because you can doesnt mean you should, systems like Chargeback are too ambiguous on when and why should you use it, its up to customer "Feel" to use it or not, and believe it or not most people will take advantage of a system in a dishonest way if it suits them, this is the world we live in, this is why people cannot have this power but this power should be down to a third party that must listen to both sides and analyze the evidence and then decide as it is now any chump can just call in and ask for their money back because now they feel like spending the money on beer instead of the game while saying that the product didnt deliver.
Again you can say what you want but when you do a chargeback on a company which means in other words "Without prior arrangement break a contract with a company by reverting a payment made" they do not have any right or obligation to provide you any further services.
I have only used chargeback once and it was truly a money scam a company without any customer support not even a number to call and I did not receive anything, as a matter of fact I think the person behind it was jailed a couple of months after, this is when you should exercise your right of chargeback, not because you did not like a game, customer support while designed to deter you from making complaints and ask for refunds works if you just politely talk to them and follow their protocol on these things, if the OP has gone through the support system they asked him to he would have got his money back sooner and without any drama.
No, you obviously never done a chargeback and have no clue how it works.. It aint hi, charge this back,
You have to fill out forms and you have to go through loops and hoops.
But thanks for caring..
Wow really is that your argument, I have done a chargeback, the only thing they ask you is "have you contacted the company" what which point you can say whatever you want and they send you a form, the form has the name of the company, the amount you paid and a box for why do you want the chargeback, it even comes with a free postage envelope back, took me 5min to fill it in drop it in the mail box and two days after someone called me to say the money had been returned to my CC.
This process is pretty much "Hi Charge this back please" unless you are counting licking the envelope, picking up the letter with the form from the floor, putting on your slipers, going out the front door to drop the letter on the box as having to go through loops and hoops LOL.
They really make it hard these days, I am guessing if you have some sort of disability yes it is hard to fill out one form and send it back, dunno what hoops you are talking about a 2 min phonecall and 5min to fill a form the next day when it arrived.
sounds like someone didnt read the terms of the contract before signing it.
Steam has been out since 2003, back in preparation for the release of patch 1.6 for Counter-Strike. The only problems I can really collect from that was friends network pretty much not working and random crashes in Valve games and some bad servers for a few years.
You're made because you made a internet transcation and they won't refund that. It's the policy of nearly all, if not all, internet stores to operate like this. Why? It's impossible to tell how long you have played, you could have turned off the internet played the game in offline mode, and come back online demanding a refund and claiming it wouldn't work. Did that happen? Maybe not, but it could.
Also, you're mad that if you chargeback Steam will suspend $2000 dollars of your account? Well, that's YOUR fault. Steam is doing the right thing, just because you made a purchase and aren't willing to be patient enough until the game works, you want to go against Steam's policy and use something that is actually pretty immoral. You accepted terms and agreements and not reading them was done at your discretion, and that's why this happened. Next time, be more patient and more understanding and you might not get so angry.
Steam is NOT a bad program and Valve is NOT a dishonest company, you're just impatient.
Never had a problem with Steam. Of course, I also read the Steam EULA and knew that if I wanted a refund, I should have a very good reason for asking.
It was announced all over the place that Ubisoft was initiating a pretty silly copyright protection, and Steam is pretty darn clear on the game's pages exactly what you are getting into. I am really sorry you are having troubles, but it seems to me that if you didn't wish to deal with restrictive protections, perhaps you should have been a bit more careful about what you were buying and read the sale page more thoroughly before buying. Logging out of Steam might also have helped. It seems to me that leaving Steam running isn't always a good idea - in fact, I always log out when finished playing one of my half-dozen or more Steam games.
One more thought? You really do accomplish more with a bit of honey than you do with hot sauce. Asking "can you please help me" makes CSRs feel good that they were able to help you out, screaming at them generally upsets them and makes them want to get rid of you. The customer may always be right, but even when s/he's right, he can still be a complete jerk.
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
As I'm sure has been mentioned multiple times already... the problem isn't steam, it's with Ubisoft software. They've embedded a rather annoying level of DRM into their latest games that forces you to stay connected to their authentication server while you play their game. If you lose connection or even drop a packet, you get booted to the main menu of the game.
Steam on the other hand, only authenticates on launch. Even then, no all games through steam even require this as you can just run their execute from the steam folder without any fuss. For other steam games, you can set them to offline mode which locks said game to your computer (until you put it back to online mode) but it lets you play it without logging into steam.
So once again, don't blame steam, blame Ubisoft and their fail-tastic DRM.
Thanks for your opinion, actually we dont want the refund.. OP says he cna care less about his account.. He is a man of princpical.
He is going to find out for all of us.. just how much ransom steam will use when you do a chargeback on a item your state gives you laws to get a refund wiht... Again, he care lessa bout the 12 hours of play.. its irrelevent... the story here is
STEAM WILL HOLD YOUR ACCOUNT WHEN YOU RIGHTFULLY USE YOUR CONSUMER RIGHTS TO GET BACK WHAT THEY WONT GIVE...
This has nothing to do with DRM, who's the problem, who's right or wrong.. Its consumer rights and a game company is about to get a law changed if lost that will prevent them from using your previous purcahses against you...
Anyone who wants to step up and protect their accounts best start doing so.. The more games steam sells, the more they control the monopoly.. another thing we fought in this country to avoid
And yes digital distributiion is a monopoly. go see if you can open up a store like steam today..
I really think your the OP and just created a account because you don't want to be held accountable for what was said originally.
Anyways, from what you said before, he got his stuff refunded. I wouldn't be surprised if all his stuff got locked also. Like a poster pointed out before, it says in their agreement that they do not refund and if you break this agreement they can do whatever they want to your account. Not to mention half of the stuff you seem to be saying is mainly opinions about consumer law. These laws only go so far. Especially when it's stated by the company what they will do if this problem arises.
If he(you) want to take to do a lawful action, by all means do so. If steam has to change their agreement because of it, more power to him(you).
Only reason I think that you are him is because he hasn't come out of the woodwork for a while and you seem to be speaking for him or your his friend in RL. Either way good luck to you guys.
edit: Forgot to mention that Steam most likely refunded a lot of people just because of the stupid DRM. A lot of people were pissed about it and Steam realized that it had a problem. Last time I checked, they weren't selling Silent Hunter 5. Very strange that this game had problems when Assassins Creed 2 didn't. Well, at least I haven't heard anything.(so far)
Everyone has opinions, but does that make them the universal truth??? NO!
So you think because you bought a game without doing some research and tried to play it that Steam owes you something? If you had went to the store and bought this game you would have got NOTHING because no store that sells software accepts returns on that software unless it is for another copy of said software. The only difference is that you should be dealing with UBISOFT instead of steam for creating craptastic DRM.
One, you might want to get to the point earlier in your post. Two, people are too short-sighted and self-centered for a boycott to work these days. They want their toys now in the shinniest box possible and could care less for the long-term effects on the industry.
I have spent thousands of dollars through Steam for myself, my son, wife and an extra computer (guest) (4 accounts). I have never had a problem with Steam. Bought Far Cry 2 and this was the first problem ever. Contacted a Steam guy and problem was fixed within 30 minutes and it was an Ubisoft problem. I won’t buy any Ubisoft games, but trust Steam and Valve.
Just so you know, a large portion of pirated games now are steam releases.
The absolutely can be cracked, copied, shared, and run without steam.
Very true I am playing a pirated version of Silent Hunter 5 now, I'll never buy a UbiSoft game, they are legendary for releasing buggy games, always have been and things havent changed with SH5. But this isnt really a problem with Steam all this shit with the problems your having with this game is all down to Ubisoft .
A few words of friendly advice.
Read and make sure you understand what it is you purchase in the future.
That steam can do this should be no suprise.
Just pay the stupid tax and move on IMO. We have all had to pay it a time or 2 in life also.
Steam kind of sucks in that, but IT gaming software is like that in general. They are so afraid of piracy that they do not stand behind their products when customers are dissatisfied with a purchase. Only industry, I can think of, that does that.
Plus, doesn't help that software is over-priced anyway, which brings on their own piracy risks (i.e., folks sometimes steal what they cannot afford, but feel they must have).
My sympathies to the OP.
In this case, as it's been said many times in this thread, the issue has very little to do with Steam. It's Ubisoft. try buying SH5 or AC2 from D2D or any other DL service and you'll have the same issues.
For gods sake i got only a single game via Steam .....
If i would have read this post before i would never bought anything on their platform before ...
The most shoking thing for me is that they can block my account and prevent me from playing MY GAMES which i paid ... and even worse they arent afraid to abuse their possibilitys...
Sigh
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
The only thing I use STEAM for is my Half-Life games and Global Agenda. For just about everything else, I use Impulse. Same convenience, but it doesn't need to be launched/running when you play the games purchased over it. Plus, it tells you exactly what kind of DRM the software comes with right on the info page, in plain sight. Not to mention that Stardock itself is a pretty stand-up example of how a software company should treat its customers.
STEAM can... well, use your imagination.
Yeesh. I didn't have this problem when Spore: Galactic Adventures came out...
Bought that on Steam prior to finding out I can't link my retail copy to the Steam service to get it upgraded.
One e-mail to, and one e-mail reply later, they refunded my purchase.
Maybe it just depends on who you catch on the other end?
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Thanks for your opinion, actually we dont want the refund.. OP says he cna care less about his account.. He is a man of princpical.
He is going to find out for all of us.. just how much ransom steam will use when you do a chargeback on a item your state gives you laws to get a refund wiht... Again, he care lessa bout the 12 hours of play.. its irrelevent... the story here is
STEAM WILL HOLD YOUR ACCOUNT WHEN YOU RIGHTFULLY USE YOUR CONSUMER RIGHTS TO GET BACK WHAT THEY WONT GIVE...
This has nothing to do with DRM, who's the problem, who's right or wrong.. Its consumer rights and a game company is about to get a law changed if lost that will prevent them from using your previous purcahses against you...
Anyone who wants to step up and protect their accounts best start doing so.. The more games steam sells, the more they control the monopoly.. another thing we fought in this country to avoid
And yes digital distributiion is a monopoly. go see if you can open up a store like steam today..
I really think your the OP and just created a account because you don't want to be held accountable for what was said originally.
Anyways, from what you said before, he got his stuff refunded. I wouldn't be surprised if all his stuff got locked also. Like a poster pointed out before, it says in their agreement that they do not refund and if you break this agreement they can do whatever they want to your account. Not to mention half of the stuff you seem to be saying is mainly opinions about consumer law. These laws only go so far. Especially when it's stated by the company what they will do if this problem arises.
If he(you) want to take to do a lawful action, by all means do so. If steam has to change their agreement because of it, more power to him(you).
Only reason I think that you are him is because he hasn't come out of the woodwork for a while and you seem to be speaking for him or your his friend in RL. Either way good luck to you guys.
edit: Forgot to mention that Steam most likely refunded a lot of people just because of the stupid DRM. A lot of people were pissed about it and Steam realized that it had a problem. Last time I checked, they weren't selling Silent Hunter 5. Very strange that this game had problems when Assassins Creed 2 didn't. Well, at least I haven't heard anything.(so far)
Th op got banned (please explain for what, all his posts are here and unedited) I was relaying for him, why don't you read the thread before you enter your 2 cents and look stupid.
Held accountable for what? Quit being an antiwhiner.
Problem is the industry themselves and they are helping customers become pirates...
They are fat cat lazy fat bitches of America that the other countries see, they do nothing they know nothing, they just call
stupid shots based off what they read in Sundays paper or is compiled in statistics in front of them.
They know nothing of gaming, or even how the internet works.
This is what we call management, and when its morons at the top.. the Kings dont sit at the bottom if you know what i mean so guess whats there...
Lets take UBISoft for example.. I as a software developer know how they feel, dont want noone to get anything for free. But they don't ever get it through their thick skull.. Piracy is and will always be there, you keep the little kid from using the same disk on 10 computers in a lan party of out enjoying the content.. But nothing can be done other than that. NOTHING, I have been in gaming communities my whole life.. I see who pirates and why they do it and the Publishers would blow their minds to have the info i do in front of them
They are kids, with not much money... They will buy the games they adore and support the company for putting out a great product, and cling to them like a dryer sheet to your pants.
They pirate the shit they dont think is any good, and wont play for more than a few hours. I know guys that played games for 3 years. They pirated the game cuz they couldnt find it in the store. Finally they went and seen it on Steam and paid for it and supported them
Piracy is at an all time high right now.. i agree.. its not due to certain websites <cough> <cough> its due to the extreme ammount of crap out there right now..
Devs are pushing out this console crap to the PC and it realy fucking sucks.. and noone is paying for it.. Who has $60 for something they aint gonna play for more than 1-2 days. And not even really have fun doing it
People are not enjoying games anymore.. they are enjoying learning the games, and as soon as they figure them out,, its bye bye
This is because the PRODUCT SUCKS.. game developers do NOT know what fun is in a game, its a bunch of artists and people doing stupid effects that are cute, and stupid shit like that.. removing hte playabitlity and it shows
or maybe if you don't play the game for 12 hours.
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon