The game was supposed to be ultimate RVR experience. Yet they added instanced scenarios that yielded much more experience than anything else in the game. Than they were suprised that scenarios was all anyone ever played, leaving the game desolated.
Simple fix. Either remove scenarios , or make the rewards much much smaller.
There are posts in Warhammer forums from Beta testers who claim that it was the opposite. That the scenarios were prominant and that RvR was always secondary.
I don't know if that's true or not. i do know that I found the scenarios a blast and had some of the most pvp fun that I've had in a longtime while playing them.
It does not mater how much you or me enjoyed the scenarios.
The fact is that people prefered playing scenarios over RVR which was death blow to WAR.
If it went out as just scenario based game. Like for example Global Agenda. And this was the goal and promise of the game. This would be quite the way to go ( additionally the time invested in PVE and RVR development would be invested in scenarios)
But it was not like this.
Most of the game focus was still RVR and PVE. Both of wich were made empty and useless by scenarios.
Its like making world most expensive health food & salat bar. But also accidentally also serve awesome cheeseburgers.
Than wonder why nobody is sitting at salat table.
My thought is that people enjoyed playing the scenarios because...
they were fun.
Of course the next line in that play is "well, make rvr fun!"
but they really are two different animals.
What is fun about scenarios and why I and others liked them was that you had two relatively even, relatively large sides battling for a goal.
This was the main reason I played Lineage 2 which was the castle sieges. And I have to say, of my time in Lineage 2, they were the most enjoyable part.
The problem with Warhammer sieges is that there is no pride in ownership as players have to flip them. I believe this is the same issue that Aion has to a certain extent.
I imagine it is one of the reasons that World of Warcraft has successful battlegrounds.
I don't believe Scenarios ruined Warhammer. It was the most fun part of warhammer and why I subscribe from time to time. My problem with open world pvp games is that the fights are usualy small groups or more often than not, one small group against one person. That just isn't fun for me and quite frankly loses my interest. I enjoy sieges most of all. Give me a game that is just sieges and I would happily play that. It's a small amount of focused game time, somewhat even groups and fast paced action.
Over world pvp which is roaming around for some amount of time hoping to run into a battle or just picking off stragglers. This was even the case in Lineage 2 as warbands would march around trying to find stragglers to pick off. It made for a more interesting political world but as for pvp it wasn't worth the sub.
You see, you are assuming that taking scenarios out would save warhammer. And all that would have done was left RvR right? But the RvR was always there. So anyone desiring RvR would have already been playing that. Scenarios didn't keep people from RvR. They kept players who wanted or enjoyed scenarios. Removing them means that a good portion of those players would have left and you would be left with the same people and a handful more who wanted RvR. So I would say it's the opposite, the scenarios kept paying customers that the RvR couldn't.
Of course there are the open world pvp people who frown upon the more battleground focused games but I believe they are two separate demographics of people.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I stand by the expansion ... just 2 new races; probably bretonnian and skaven. (which means they can add to the land of the dead as we all know Nagash's minions are now no longer friends of the skaven after what they did to him).
Two new races are not going to help when nobody wants to play the 5 or 6 that are already available. Same deal with the classes--Did anyone actually think that adding 4 new classes would somehow fix the game when people were getting bored with the 20 that were already available.
If the core game isn't any fun, making it bigger isn't going to help.
I stand by the expansion ... just 2 new races; probably bretonnian and skaven. (which means they can add to the land of the dead as we all know Nagash's minions are now no longer friends of the skaven after what they did to him).
Two new races are not going to help when nobody wants to play the 5 or 6 that are already available. Same deal with the classes--Did anyone actually think that adding 4 new classes would somehow fix the game when people were getting bored with the 20 that were already available.
If the core game isn't any fun, making it bigger isn't going to help.
That is true. But what an expansion will do is:
Show players that there is forward movment in the game and that is hasn't been abandoned. This is somethign that I've seen over my years here. Players need to feel that the world is being developed and that their investment in time and money isn't going to suddenly go "poof". It will be good for morale.
And, as was mentione earlier, they need to address issues in the game so that players can see progress on long standing complaints.
This is what AoC is doing and it has people excited.
But just fixing issues in game is parallel to Vanguard where players see issues being fixed but they feel the game is on maintenance mode.
So both are required. One or the other won't do it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I stand by the expansion ... just 2 new races; probably bretonnian and skaven. (which means they can add to the land of the dead as we all know Nagash's minions are now no longer friends of the skaven after what they did to him).
Two new races are not going to help when nobody wants to play the 5 or 6 that are already available. Same deal with the classes--Did anyone actually think that adding 4 new classes would somehow fix the game when people were getting bored with the 20 that were already available.
If the core game isn't any fun, making it bigger isn't going to help.
That is true. But what an expansion will do is:
Show players that there is forward movment in the game and that is hasn't been abandoned. This is somethign that I've seen over my years here. Players need to feel that the world is being developed and that their investment in time and money isn't going to suddenly go "poof". It will be good for morale.
And, as was mentione earlier, they need to address issues in the game so that players can see progress on long standing complaints.
This is what AoC is doing and it has people excited.
But just fixing issues in game is parallel to Vanguard where players see issues being fixed but they feel the game is on maintenance mode.
So both are required. One or the other won't do it.
I played War for a year before gettng tired of Mythic's complete lack of direction wih the game and it's poorily implemented patches that always seemd to break all of the end game RvR and PvE(what little there was).The game would remain broken for weeks after a patch with no sign that Mythic was ever gonna do anything about it.The guild I was in left en masse after one such debacle 1.3 I tihnk it was.
The game engine was horrible at launch and had ony jsut moved into barely acceptable when I left and I'm guessing nwo it's moved into acceptable and will never get any better without a compelte rewrite or beng ported to a better engine altogether.
There were things I liked and lvoed about War but too much that got in the way of those things.
yeah i would have to agree take war offline and actually make it worth wild, played in the beging but bailed due to how little it offered. make the factions split up more make it how warhammer should be better yet team bioware up with games-work shop that will give us a good MMO to call warhammer. our only hope now is THQ making warhammer 40k mmo that hopefully will be truely epic. we can only prey.
Originally posted by LordDraekon
At this point, it would be better for EA to shut down WAR for 6 - 12 months, focus on releasing a complete game, then re-release the thing without the influence of Mark "We Know How To Design Games" Jacobs. Trimming content is just stupid. Conventional wisdom is that giving customers more is the key to retention.
The Empire/Chaos Tier 1 area is a mess because of the Endless Free Trial and illustrates real well how lengthy free trials are a bad idea. There is no real community here, only a chaotic mess of freeloaders playing the same content over and over because they can be jerks for free. There is no real commitment to the game. Playing through either of the other racial pairings is a bittersweet lesson in wasted potential. I can't see how EA will be able to restrain itself from pulling the plug on this title after SWTOR releases, if not before then. Right now it's just a money pit.
While taking the game offline could have it's merits, I would be shocked if Mythic were to do it, as it removes a revenue stream that I'm sure this game desperately needs to keep functioning. I'm fairly certain that Mythic already blew it's wad on this game and doesn't have capital just kicking around to support taking this game offline for any amount of time.
Also, don't mean to be a stickler, but wanted to point out that I believe the saying is "worthwhile", not worth wild.
You guys only need to know ONE fact: from 60+ servers down to 4.
'nuff said
IMO from everything I was hearing in game and on the forums, this was mostly due to a lack of class balancing that people had been crying about since launch. Even though, I don't necessarily agree with the extreme need for classes to be balanced (I kind of think it detracts from the whole point of having various classes to begin with), I can see how those pleas going ignored for as long as they did, really hurt this game.
I agree PQ is a great idea and personally i love it and imo it should replace the current raid instance in all games.
But just not too much of it in a single zone which not only diverse the players but when the pop is low, its hard to find players to play with.
Glad that you enjoy it mate, and hopefully what the head of bio/mythic said is true, more contents to be added and even an x-pac to come for this game soon...
I believe the PQs are horrible idea. Even the last bits of group-content where you actually have a chance to socialize, is trivialized into this scripted event.
Erm.. compare to current instance raid, where you finish and go, its not much difference. But at least in PQ any class can participate, no such thing as 1 tank 3 dps 1 healer crap...
Public quests certainly seemed like they were built on the 1 tank, 1 healer, X dps model to me. If you didn't have enough of the right players and classes, you stood little to no chance to finish the PQ and it is pretty clear that PQ's were designed with the tank/healer/dps trinity in mind.
The only real difference in the PQs is that you could pile on any number of people which made them worse in comparison to other games dungeons that use a set group limit. Not only if you lack the proper classes/numbers to do the encounter were you not going to have an enjoyable time, but if you get to many people it trivializes the encounter to the point of boredom.
Like all things in warhammer, fun really only seems to happen when the right set of conditions randomly happen to come together and none of that was caused by the design of the game. It is just a long series of ideas that sound fantastic on paper, but fail miserably in execution.
Don't get me wrong, the concept of public quests are awesome and there is room for those in mmos from start to finish, but the presentation of public quests in warhammer is aweful. From lack of scaling to the individual effort being more important than team play for rewards. I really really want to love them, but they need plenty of work
A honest (though a bit shallow) re-review, and an unmatched rating in my book; it should have been around 8 based on the review itself. But I can agree that a PVE-revamp is needed.
I disagree with the reason people left this game. 90% of the people I know who left (and I just recently quit this game since playing from launch) was because of poor class balancing. There are classes in this game that have been underpowered since the beginning of the game and others that have been so overpowered that players have spent their entire play time learning to beat this one overpowered class.
The real killer was the fast that you can die in pvp in a matter of seconds from point blank ae spells. It really took all the strategy out of the pvp.
The nail in the coffin came when they took out a huge portion of content, the forts and basically let each realm walk into each others' capital cities to siege. When this happened us players learned that the end game was completely broken. Basically all the boss fights were broken and the way to beat them, was to bug out the boss in one way or the other. The Order king took a full 20 man group in the best gear to kill while the destruction king was killable by 12 people in just so so gear.
So the guys killing the easier king got decked out in the best gear creatinga huge imbalance in the pvp side of things, causing most of the players to just give up.
Scenarios didn't keep people from RvR. They kept players who wanted or enjoyed scenarios. Removing them means that a good portion of those players would have left and you would be left with the same people and a handful more who wanted RvR. So I would say it's the opposite, the scenarios kept paying customers that the RvR couldn't.
Its exactly what i say. Scenarios did keep people from playing RVR
When you get 10000 xp points from one scenario round , opposed to 1000 xp for winning the keep (and it can take hours)
What do you think people will play?
Even the people that hated the scenarios played them all the time. People will always gravitate towards most optimal means of achieving their goals.
Again. They could have kept the scenarios , but drastically reducing their rewards. And in the same time drastically increasing RVR rewards.
And you would see the population switch in mater of hours
I was one of those people who shoved out the 60 bucks to buy this game the day it came out.
Me being a gamer who doesn't go out and look for flaws, actually enjoyed this game. It was pretty fun. Then I started noticing the lack of people as i played for a month or so. THAT was the one thing that killed this game completely for me. And I hear it's not changed..
I mentioned few pros and cons before. Now Im once again going to talk about the real cons.
PVE. Why on earth do you add pve content into a game without working on the AI at all ? WAR has tons of PVE content - but it is so poorly executed that its just sad to play it. 10 human mobs standing withing 10 meters of each other and you kill them from 5 meters away without pulling others. Its not like every class doesn't have a pulling spell...
But the main reason why PVE is not worked on is because it takes MORE manpower than the PVP... And EA/Mythic is cheap... Yes... EA is not supporting this game to get even the basic content out.... But are spending 150 millions USD on SW TOR. NOw... don't think that will make SW TOR any good. For me it shows that EA is not supporting their MMOs at all. MMOs need MORE work after release than before. Mythic was litterally shut down by EA... Thats not how to support a MMO game
The most likely outcome for WAR now is some kind of free to play package for the guys that are playing endless trials. Some sort of deal where ppl will be able to advance without paying for the game or the sub.
WAR has many fundemental flaws - but overall it is a good game. It just isn't worth the money you spend on it. And thats the bottom line.
I played WAR for about 8 months. I got every slot in both realms to at least tier 2, with 5 or 6 to tier 3 and 2 guys to tier 4. I kept hoping that they would get rid of crowd control but in the end, crowd control made the game pointless. I heard they changed the way it works, but if its there, no thanks. That's why I also quit playing DAOC after 4 years. After I had exhausted the PVE content in all three realms and played every class to 50 it became the same thing every fight in RVR. Doesn't matter what you play, how skilled you are or what gear you're wearing. The entire game and all the time you put into it comes down to who fires off their CC first. Its like a cheap ass pause button that completely takes your opponent out of the game and that's where I had to draw the line.
This game is supposed to be about competition, but spending forever prepping for a battle, taking forever to get to that battle only to either A. get to stand there and watch yourself die or B. get the awesome opportunity to slaughter a guy just standing there is beyond stupid. At the lower tiers its not so bad because the timers are low enough that you still have a chance to do something after the effect wears off but the higher the tier, the worse it got.
I played WAR for about 8 months. I got every slot in both realms to at least tier 2, with 5 or 6 to tier 3 and 2 guys to tier 4. I kept hoping that they would get rid of crowd control but in the end, crowd control made the game pointless. I heard they changed the way it works, but if its there, no thanks. That's why I also quit playing DAOC after 4 years. After I had exhausted the PVE content in all three realms and played every class to 50 it became the same thing every fight in RVR. Doesn't matter what you play, how skilled you are or what gear you're wearing. The entire game and all the time you put into it comes down to who fires off their CC first. Its like a cheap ass pause button that completely takes your opponent out of the game and that's where I had to draw the line.
This game is supposed to be about competition, but spending forever prepping for a battle, taking forever to get to that battle only to either A. get to stand there and watch yourself die or B. get the awesome opportunity to slaughter a guy just standing there is beyond stupid. At the lower tiers its not so bad because the timers are low enough that you still have a chance to do something after the effect wears off but the higher the tier, the worse it got.
I can not see what you say. I played 5 years DAOC and since then WAR.
CC is just another tool to win a fight, but not a win button. We won a lot of fights, even if the other group had first mezz.
There are a lot problems and misconceptions in WAR, but the Cities are always full of players (EU Servers, Carroburg, Drakenwald) .
The fee is standard and as long as people pay the same for games like Star Trek Online or Champions Online its more than fair. I have enough fun that a dont miss the money - so for me its ok.
The Endgame content is nothing great, but the instances are solid PvE Content. The City Raids are boring - thats right and thats why the change it to a more RvR centric system - we have to take a look to judge it.
Lacking solo content? - I always complained about the lacing GROUP content in the lower tiers (T1, T2) and was happy that they added the Hunters Vale in T1. You can solo from 1 to 40 easily in WAR - then you need 5 friends - not more, to clear everything in PvE.
Nearly 80% of all currently playing WAR players hope that there will be NO MORE PvE content.
WAR is NO PvE game, its all about RvR and that means the smalest size is 1 group vs. 1 group - and the R in RvR means REALM, so its like DAoC - you have to finde a guild and an alliance and then you can have a lot of fun in the game.
Stay alone and you will never exprerience WAR the right way.
A good Con could be the still OP AE damage skills or the far to low time to kill ... but i can agree with the score for the masses. But other games still have a far to high score My personel rating for WAR is 7.4 in its current state and i still like the game and have fun with it
------------------------------------- Playing: Overwatch, Genshin Impact, Black Desert Mobile, Hundred Soul, Cyberpunk 2077 Inactive: WAR, DAoC, RIFT, GW1/2, TSW, Age of Wulin, Black Desert, Blade & Soul, Skyforge
Someone needs to do a real Re-Review of this game. That was 75% of what it used to be, followed up by 25% of someone who made a free trial toon, got butthurt, then spammed /advice to see what the endgame was like. Here's a hint, spam any global channel in any game trolling for bad news, and they're going to unload a dump truck of fresh hot stool on your face. This re-review was an uninformative joke at very least. If anyone wants to see what the game actually has to offer, just do the free trial. Extrapolate that upon the next 80 renown levels, and you've got the idea.
This IS NOT a PvE game at heart. Trying to compare it's poor PvE to another game that is primarily PvE is just irresponsible to say the least. WAR has always been marketed as a mass Realm vs. Realm game. That means big PvP battles all over a variety of maps at any time. If you played T1 in Nordland/Norsca, then went to the big red area in the middle, you'd find dozens upon dozens of people beating the hell out of each other. In T2-T4, you actually have to ask around and find a warband, but you essentially get the same thing when both sides are fighting each other. I think the problem people have is that they really have no clue how to compare strengths against strengths, and weaknesses against weaknesses. For shits n giggles, let's say WoW and WAR.
WoW - Raids vs. WAR - RvR = TIE
WoW has so many raids it pretty much makes any other game shrivel against it's mass of content. However the problem with static content is that it very rarely changes. The change comes from finishing your progression and moving onto the next Raid. With WAR no two battles are ever the same but always similar. You get different locations offering slightly different tactical advantages, but more or less it's how well players can react. Quick response time, unusual tactics, realm cooperation, and sheer luck will win your battles. WoW breaks it down to a science, WAR turns chaos into an art form.
WoW - Questing vs. WAR - Questing = WoW wins due to content
Speaking purely about quests, not PvE in general. WoW has a lot more content which edges it out for the win, but WAR has the same style and a bit more attitude about it's content. For players that read what you're being asked to do, things can get a little gritty and scary at times. This isn't a childs war to be fighting and every race somehow manages to find a way to betray it's allies or even their own kind. The other thing that brings WAR down a notch is simply the overabundance of useless rewards. The XP is generally good, but damn near everything you'll receive as a reward simply doesn't hold a candle to RvR rewards.
WoW - Battlegrounds vs. WAR - Scenarios = WAR wins due to fun factor
BG's and SC's are essentially the same thing. You spawn into an instanced location, get to your objective, accomplish whatever needs to be done while fighting off the enemy. WAR, since launch, has always given out fistfuls of rewards for doing well in scenarios. I think because of this, and the mostly balanced teams, it quickly became the most sought after means of playing the game. When you do something so well that people have been known to play through the whole game without doing anything else, how can that be a failure? To me, that's a massive success. The same cannot really be said of BG's, the connection is easy to make.
There's certainly more points and comparisons that can be made; Auctionhouse, Crafting, Guilds and Alliances, Visual style, but they're all tick marks on a list of things that every game SHOULD have, not how well they really need to be done. When it comes down to it, the gameplay in WAR is fun, exciting, and variable at nearly every turn. Unfortunately, this also means if you take a step in the wrong direction you'll be lost and alone, confused as to where the party is at. So, like any game that you plan on getting into, why don't you try joining up with a group of players that have been through it all before and learn the game from people that have been playing it all along. Maybe that way you can avoid some of the glaring mistakes the reviewer here made...
If the reviewer had actually played past T1...
You can find RvR action in any tier every single night of the week, the downside being that RvR typically happens during prime-times.
You can get scenarios to pop in all tiers at pretty much any time. During off-prime hours, a severe thrashing for either side (or repeated thrashings) will kill your queue times.
End-game content does not happen only in the capital cities. Also, City Sieges are a nightly occurrence on every server. There are also 5 end-game dungeons available (one gated by RvR), at any time for players to make a 6-man group and playthrough for progression.
Twinks, as of the last patch, are essentially dead. Nerfs to the talisman system for early levels made it so talismans are less effective, and brings the most hard core of the Endless Trial twinks down to more human level. Also, anyone playing the Endless trial can get almost everything they need without the benefits a subbed player can use. The only difference is how long it will take.
It's really simple, if you haven't played the game, get the endless trial. If you like it, pay the guys some money and sub up for real. If you don't like it, then don't play it anymore.
Don't know...I'll add my two cents on this I guess. I tried the game and wasn't very impressed first time I played, but I've been getting bored with other games and decided to try it again. Guess what, I've never been one for the PVP games but I was playing last night and actually liked it. Got killed tons of times, PO'd almost as many and still found myself running back for more. There is still a lot I'm not understanding in it and I'm feeling my way around, but as I said I actually enjoyed it.
Oh one thing I don't understand. I always see people typing about end game in MMO's. What is with that? Isn't an MMO supposed to be a continually progessive world/gaming experience? Why would you want an end game? I often see people complain about people that like to solo games and see them type, "well why don't they just play a single player RPG". Well, if someone wants and end game experience...why don't they just do the same thing? Go figure.
Getting old is mandatory...growing up is optional.
I stand by the expansion ... just 2 new races; probably bretonnian and skaven. (which means they can add to the land of the dead as we all know Nagash's minions are now no longer friends of the skaven after what they did to him).
Two new races are not going to help when nobody wants to play the 5 or 6 that are already available. Same deal with the classes--Did anyone actually think that adding 4 new classes would somehow fix the game when people were getting bored with the 20 that were already available.
If the core game isn't any fun, making it bigger isn't going to help.
This is typical of mythic. When they've screwed up and lost a large amount of playerbase, they always throw the hook out there about a new class. They did it with the black guard, the choppa, the slayer and the kotbs. In DaoC they did it with the addition of classes throughout every expansion. Warlocks, animists, valks, minotaurs, bonedancers, vamps, bainshees,,, the list goes on. Rather than fix the problems they have, they keep their customers focused on the new toy/class.
Originally posted by Jpizzle The improvements mentioned as coming are things that have been requested or demanded to be addressed for one and a half years now. Client and server stability are a must. Its almost patronizing to list that as an addition to any game. I play AoC and anytime people list stability as an improvement I cringe. It should be a goldamn standard! But, for all its neat ideas and potential (which I think WAR has/had) it falls way way way short of being worth $15 a month. Other then large scale PvP encounters, which by the reviewers own accounts are viewed as counterproductive, the game is essentially as shallow and empty as a Cryptic game. Having the most fun PvP would be something to boast, if players could log on and experience it 24/7 (outside of the freebie area). But its not the case. WAR forces a mind-numbingly long wait-and-see type experience in RvR and players just dont participate. Or, you have to be on at specific times. Further, it ostracizes casual players by not regulating pre-mades where the chance for random scenario groups to have a chance at winning (or having fun. Or not being farmed for RP) is zero. Being able to enjoy the core of the game is a gamble, and I dont want to waste $15 a month HOPING Im on at the right time, w/ the right people. Theres just too many issues w/ WAR, and frankly the band-aid development that the game has gone through over the last 1.5 years shows in their patch notes and their populations (another factor that contributes to being able to have fun).
I agree with just about everything you said here. I did actually enjoy a lot o the game but in the end the negatives couldnt hold my sub any longer.....
I quit playing (as did all of my guild) before the first year was up The gear grind in this game is horrible and gets worse with each update (scenario weapons......) T4 rvr is boring - trading BOs and keep back and forth to finally unlock horribly laggy city content...
And the pve....ugh lots of frustrating bugs in encounters.....
I will just bide my time and wait for the warhammer 40k mmo for my warhammer fix
I'm sorry WAR is just a a joke, and god help the people who are working under ihe latest producer Dujour. In the last news leter she pretty much bragged about how they were going to kill what was left of the already dead PvE game because that what the core gamer wanted.
Core Gamer?
You mean those three counterstrike tards you have been listening to since the game launched? Yeah 64 to 4, and top on EA's list to be "Earthed and Beyonded" that is what listening to the so called core gamer got you.
Mythic has like 5k PVPers playing the game. Thats it.. and the dream of these PVPers is to shut down the PVE content all together. And they are doing a good job of it.
So much potential gone to waste. Just because of few ppl that desided that its "RVR or NOTHING"
I have never seen more stupid mobs. And for someone who enjoyed both the PvE and the RvR from DAoC equally, I was really disappointed.
I can tell no difference between me fighting a freakin' wolf or a human. They all seem to respond the same, I'm not even sure if there is a different process they follow.
I wanted to like this game. I was so excited the day it came out and went and bought my copy.
I'm sorry WAR is just a a joke, and god help the people who are working under ihe latest producer Dujour. In the last news leter she pretty much bragged about how they were going to kill what was left of the already dead PvE game because that what the core gamer wanted.
Core Gamer?
You mean those three counterstrike tards you have been listening to since the game launched? Yeah 64 to 4, and top on EA's list to be "Earthed and Beyonded" that is what listening to the so called core gamer got you.
Mythic has like 5k PVPers playing the game. Thats it.. and the dream of these PVPers is to shut down the PVE content all together. And they are doing a good job of it.
So much potential gone to waste. Just because of few ppl that desided that its "RVR or NOTHING"
I agree. What was cool with DAoC was during the PvE you forged relationships with your realms members. Then going off with them to do RvR was like icing on the cake.
This game is bad, and still no better than what it was when it first started. Bad engine with no balance at all and on top of that it lacked content... Its no better now than it was when first realesed. If you want an MMO with good pvp then Darkfall would beat this game hands down
Comments
My thought is that people enjoyed playing the scenarios because...
they were fun.
Of course the next line in that play is "well, make rvr fun!"
but they really are two different animals.
What is fun about scenarios and why I and others liked them was that you had two relatively even, relatively large sides battling for a goal.
This was the main reason I played Lineage 2 which was the castle sieges. And I have to say, of my time in Lineage 2, they were the most enjoyable part.
The problem with Warhammer sieges is that there is no pride in ownership as players have to flip them. I believe this is the same issue that Aion has to a certain extent.
I imagine it is one of the reasons that World of Warcraft has successful battlegrounds.
I don't believe Scenarios ruined Warhammer. It was the most fun part of warhammer and why I subscribe from time to time. My problem with open world pvp games is that the fights are usualy small groups or more often than not, one small group against one person. That just isn't fun for me and quite frankly loses my interest. I enjoy sieges most of all. Give me a game that is just sieges and I would happily play that. It's a small amount of focused game time, somewhat even groups and fast paced action.
Over world pvp which is roaming around for some amount of time hoping to run into a battle or just picking off stragglers. This was even the case in Lineage 2 as warbands would march around trying to find stragglers to pick off. It made for a more interesting political world but as for pvp it wasn't worth the sub.
You see, you are assuming that taking scenarios out would save warhammer. And all that would have done was left RvR right? But the RvR was always there. So anyone desiring RvR would have already been playing that. Scenarios didn't keep people from RvR. They kept players who wanted or enjoyed scenarios. Removing them means that a good portion of those players would have left and you would be left with the same people and a handful more who wanted RvR. So I would say it's the opposite, the scenarios kept paying customers that the RvR couldn't.
Of course there are the open world pvp people who frown upon the more battleground focused games but I believe they are two separate demographics of people.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Two new races are not going to help when nobody wants to play the 5 or 6 that are already available. Same deal with the classes--Did anyone actually think that adding 4 new classes would somehow fix the game when people were getting bored with the 20 that were already available.
If the core game isn't any fun, making it bigger isn't going to help.
That is true. But what an expansion will do is:
Show players that there is forward movment in the game and that is hasn't been abandoned. This is somethign that I've seen over my years here. Players need to feel that the world is being developed and that their investment in time and money isn't going to suddenly go "poof". It will be good for morale.
And, as was mentione earlier, they need to address issues in the game so that players can see progress on long standing complaints.
This is what AoC is doing and it has people excited.
But just fixing issues in game is parallel to Vanguard where players see issues being fixed but they feel the game is on maintenance mode.
So both are required. One or the other won't do it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I played War for a year before gettng tired of Mythic's complete lack of direction wih the game and it's poorily implemented patches that always seemd to break all of the end game RvR and PvE(what little there was).The game would remain broken for weeks after a patch with no sign that Mythic was ever gonna do anything about it.The guild I was in left en masse after one such debacle 1.3 I tihnk it was.
The game engine was horrible at launch and had ony jsut moved into barely acceptable when I left and I'm guessing nwo it's moved into acceptable and will never get any better without a compelte rewrite or beng ported to a better engine altogether.
There were things I liked and lvoed about War but too much that got in the way of those things.
You guys only need to know ONE fact: from 60+ servers down to 4.
'nuff said
Also, sucks for Mythic that EA is throwing all of their MMO money on that game that will not fail (because, you know, it's made BioWare) - SWTOR.
While taking the game offline could have it's merits, I would be shocked if Mythic were to do it, as it removes a revenue stream that I'm sure this game desperately needs to keep functioning. I'm fairly certain that Mythic already blew it's wad on this game and doesn't have capital just kicking around to support taking this game offline for any amount of time.
Also, don't mean to be a stickler, but wanted to point out that I believe the saying is "worthwhile", not worth wild.
Your fail comment, failed.
IMO from everything I was hearing in game and on the forums, this was mostly due to a lack of class balancing that people had been crying about since launch. Even though, I don't necessarily agree with the extreme need for classes to be balanced (I kind of think it detracts from the whole point of having various classes to begin with), I can see how those pleas going ignored for as long as they did, really hurt this game.
Your fail comment, failed.
Public quests certainly seemed like they were built on the 1 tank, 1 healer, X dps model to me. If you didn't have enough of the right players and classes, you stood little to no chance to finish the PQ and it is pretty clear that PQ's were designed with the tank/healer/dps trinity in mind.
The only real difference in the PQs is that you could pile on any number of people which made them worse in comparison to other games dungeons that use a set group limit. Not only if you lack the proper classes/numbers to do the encounter were you not going to have an enjoyable time, but if you get to many people it trivializes the encounter to the point of boredom.
Like all things in warhammer, fun really only seems to happen when the right set of conditions randomly happen to come together and none of that was caused by the design of the game. It is just a long series of ideas that sound fantastic on paper, but fail miserably in execution.
Don't get me wrong, the concept of public quests are awesome and there is room for those in mmos from start to finish, but the presentation of public quests in warhammer is aweful. From lack of scaling to the individual effort being more important than team play for rewards. I really really want to love them, but they need plenty of work
A honest (though a bit shallow) re-review, and an unmatched rating in my book; it should have been around 8 based on the review itself. But I can agree that a PVE-revamp is needed.
I disagree with the reason people left this game. 90% of the people I know who left (and I just recently quit this game since playing from launch) was because of poor class balancing. There are classes in this game that have been underpowered since the beginning of the game and others that have been so overpowered that players have spent their entire play time learning to beat this one overpowered class.
The real killer was the fast that you can die in pvp in a matter of seconds from point blank ae spells. It really took all the strategy out of the pvp.
The nail in the coffin came when they took out a huge portion of content, the forts and basically let each realm walk into each others' capital cities to siege. When this happened us players learned that the end game was completely broken. Basically all the boss fights were broken and the way to beat them, was to bug out the boss in one way or the other. The Order king took a full 20 man group in the best gear to kill while the destruction king was killable by 12 people in just so so gear.
So the guys killing the easier king got decked out in the best gear creatinga huge imbalance in the pvp side of things, causing most of the players to just give up.
Its exactly what i say. Scenarios did keep people from playing RVR
When you get 10000 xp points from one scenario round , opposed to 1000 xp for winning the keep (and it can take hours)
What do you think people will play?
Even the people that hated the scenarios played them all the time. People will always gravitate towards most optimal means of achieving their goals.
Again. They could have kept the scenarios , but drastically reducing their rewards. And in the same time drastically increasing RVR rewards.
And you would see the population switch in mater of hours
I was one of those people who shoved out the 60 bucks to buy this game the day it came out.
Me being a gamer who doesn't go out and look for flaws, actually enjoyed this game. It was pretty fun. Then I started noticing the lack of people as i played for a month or so. THAT was the one thing that killed this game completely for me. And I hear it's not changed..
IMO, game has potential
I mentioned few pros and cons before. Now Im once again going to talk about the real cons.
PVE. Why on earth do you add pve content into a game without working on the AI at all ? WAR has tons of PVE content - but it is so poorly executed that its just sad to play it. 10 human mobs standing withing 10 meters of each other and you kill them from 5 meters away without pulling others. Its not like every class doesn't have a pulling spell...
But the main reason why PVE is not worked on is because it takes MORE manpower than the PVP... And EA/Mythic is cheap... Yes... EA is not supporting this game to get even the basic content out.... But are spending 150 millions USD on SW TOR. NOw... don't think that will make SW TOR any good. For me it shows that EA is not supporting their MMOs at all. MMOs need MORE work after release than before. Mythic was litterally shut down by EA... Thats not how to support a MMO game
The most likely outcome for WAR now is some kind of free to play package for the guys that are playing endless trials. Some sort of deal where ppl will be able to advance without paying for the game or the sub.
WAR has many fundemental flaws - but overall it is a good game. It just isn't worth the money you spend on it. And thats the bottom line.
I played WAR for about 8 months. I got every slot in both realms to at least tier 2, with 5 or 6 to tier 3 and 2 guys to tier 4. I kept hoping that they would get rid of crowd control but in the end, crowd control made the game pointless. I heard they changed the way it works, but if its there, no thanks. That's why I also quit playing DAOC after 4 years. After I had exhausted the PVE content in all three realms and played every class to 50 it became the same thing every fight in RVR. Doesn't matter what you play, how skilled you are or what gear you're wearing. The entire game and all the time you put into it comes down to who fires off their CC first. Its like a cheap ass pause button that completely takes your opponent out of the game and that's where I had to draw the line.
This game is supposed to be about competition, but spending forever prepping for a battle, taking forever to get to that battle only to either A. get to stand there and watch yourself die or B. get the awesome opportunity to slaughter a guy just standing there is beyond stupid. At the lower tiers its not so bad because the timers are low enough that you still have a chance to do something after the effect wears off but the higher the tier, the worse it got.
I can not see what you say. I played 5 years DAOC and since then WAR.
CC is just another tool to win a fight, but not a win button. We won a lot of fights, even if the other group had first mezz.
In DAOC you had demezz and other tools.
Mhh - i cant agree to most of the cons.
There are a lot problems and misconceptions in WAR, but the Cities are always full of players (EU Servers, Carroburg, Drakenwald) .
The fee is standard and as long as people pay the same for games like Star Trek Online or Champions Online its more than fair. I have enough fun that a dont miss the money - so for me its ok.
The Endgame content is nothing great, but the instances are solid PvE Content. The City Raids are boring - thats right and thats why the change it to a more RvR centric system - we have to take a look to judge it.
Lacking solo content? - I always complained about the lacing GROUP content in the lower tiers (T1, T2) and was happy that they added the Hunters Vale in T1. You can solo from 1 to 40 easily in WAR - then you need 5 friends - not more, to clear everything in PvE.
Nearly 80% of all currently playing WAR players hope that there will be NO MORE PvE content.
WAR is NO PvE game, its all about RvR and that means the smalest size is 1 group vs. 1 group - and the R in RvR means REALM, so its like DAoC - you have to finde a guild and an alliance and then you can have a lot of fun in the game.
Stay alone and you will never exprerience WAR the right way.
A good Con could be the still OP AE damage skills or the far to low time to kill ... but i can agree with the score for the masses. But other games still have a far to high score
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Playing: Overwatch, Genshin Impact, Black Desert Mobile, Hundred Soul, Cyberpunk 2077
Inactive: WAR, DAoC, RIFT, GW1/2, TSW, Age of Wulin, Black Desert, Blade & Soul, Skyforge
Someone needs to do a real Re-Review of this game. That was 75% of what it used to be, followed up by 25% of someone who made a free trial toon, got butthurt, then spammed /advice to see what the endgame was like. Here's a hint, spam any global channel in any game trolling for bad news, and they're going to unload a dump truck of fresh hot stool on your face. This re-review was an uninformative joke at very least. If anyone wants to see what the game actually has to offer, just do the free trial. Extrapolate that upon the next 80 renown levels, and you've got the idea.
This IS NOT a PvE game at heart. Trying to compare it's poor PvE to another game that is primarily PvE is just irresponsible to say the least. WAR has always been marketed as a mass Realm vs. Realm game. That means big PvP battles all over a variety of maps at any time. If you played T1 in Nordland/Norsca, then went to the big red area in the middle, you'd find dozens upon dozens of people beating the hell out of each other. In T2-T4, you actually have to ask around and find a warband, but you essentially get the same thing when both sides are fighting each other. I think the problem people have is that they really have no clue how to compare strengths against strengths, and weaknesses against weaknesses. For shits n giggles, let's say WoW and WAR.
WoW - Raids vs. WAR - RvR = TIE
WoW has so many raids it pretty much makes any other game shrivel against it's mass of content. However the problem with static content is that it very rarely changes. The change comes from finishing your progression and moving onto the next Raid. With WAR no two battles are ever the same but always similar. You get different locations offering slightly different tactical advantages, but more or less it's how well players can react. Quick response time, unusual tactics, realm cooperation, and sheer luck will win your battles. WoW breaks it down to a science, WAR turns chaos into an art form.
WoW - Questing vs. WAR - Questing = WoW wins due to content
Speaking purely about quests, not PvE in general. WoW has a lot more content which edges it out for the win, but WAR has the same style and a bit more attitude about it's content. For players that read what you're being asked to do, things can get a little gritty and scary at times. This isn't a childs war to be fighting and every race somehow manages to find a way to betray it's allies or even their own kind. The other thing that brings WAR down a notch is simply the overabundance of useless rewards. The XP is generally good, but damn near everything you'll receive as a reward simply doesn't hold a candle to RvR rewards.
WoW - Battlegrounds vs. WAR - Scenarios = WAR wins due to fun factor
BG's and SC's are essentially the same thing. You spawn into an instanced location, get to your objective, accomplish whatever needs to be done while fighting off the enemy. WAR, since launch, has always given out fistfuls of rewards for doing well in scenarios. I think because of this, and the mostly balanced teams, it quickly became the most sought after means of playing the game. When you do something so well that people have been known to play through the whole game without doing anything else, how can that be a failure? To me, that's a massive success. The same cannot really be said of BG's, the connection is easy to make.
There's certainly more points and comparisons that can be made; Auctionhouse, Crafting, Guilds and Alliances, Visual style, but they're all tick marks on a list of things that every game SHOULD have, not how well they really need to be done. When it comes down to it, the gameplay in WAR is fun, exciting, and variable at nearly every turn. Unfortunately, this also means if you take a step in the wrong direction you'll be lost and alone, confused as to where the party is at. So, like any game that you plan on getting into, why don't you try joining up with a group of players that have been through it all before and learn the game from people that have been playing it all along. Maybe that way you can avoid some of the glaring mistakes the reviewer here made...
If the reviewer had actually played past T1...
You can find RvR action in any tier every single night of the week, the downside being that RvR typically happens during prime-times.
You can get scenarios to pop in all tiers at pretty much any time. During off-prime hours, a severe thrashing for either side (or repeated thrashings) will kill your queue times.
End-game content does not happen only in the capital cities. Also, City Sieges are a nightly occurrence on every server. There are also 5 end-game dungeons available (one gated by RvR), at any time for players to make a 6-man group and playthrough for progression.
Twinks, as of the last patch, are essentially dead. Nerfs to the talisman system for early levels made it so talismans are less effective, and brings the most hard core of the Endless Trial twinks down to more human level. Also, anyone playing the Endless trial can get almost everything they need without the benefits a subbed player can use. The only difference is how long it will take.
It's really simple, if you haven't played the game, get the endless trial. If you like it, pay the guys some money and sub up for real. If you don't like it, then don't play it anymore.
Don't know...I'll add my two cents on this I guess. I tried the game and wasn't very impressed first time I played, but I've been getting bored with other games and decided to try it again. Guess what, I've never been one for the PVP games but I was playing last night and actually liked it. Got killed tons of times, PO'd almost as many and still found myself running back for more. There is still a lot I'm not understanding in it and I'm feeling my way around, but as I said I actually enjoyed it.
Oh one thing I don't understand. I always see people typing about end game in MMO's. What is with that? Isn't an MMO supposed to be a continually progessive world/gaming experience? Why would you want an end game? I often see people complain about people that like to solo games and see them type, "well why don't they just play a single player RPG". Well, if someone wants and end game experience...why don't they just do the same thing? Go figure.
Getting old is mandatory...growing up is optional.
This is typical of mythic. When they've screwed up and lost a large amount of playerbase, they always throw the hook out there about a new class. They did it with the black guard, the choppa, the slayer and the kotbs. In DaoC they did it with the addition of classes throughout every expansion. Warlocks, animists, valks, minotaurs, bonedancers, vamps, bainshees,,, the list goes on. Rather than fix the problems they have, they keep their customers focused on the new toy/class.
I agree with just about everything you said here.
I did actually enjoy a lot o the game but in the end the negatives couldnt hold my sub any longer.....
I quit playing (as did all of my guild) before the first year was up
The gear grind in this game is horrible and gets worse with each update (scenario weapons......)
T4 rvr is boring - trading BOs and keep back and forth to finally unlock horribly laggy city content...
And the pve....ugh lots of frustrating bugs in encounters.....
I will just bide my time and wait for the warhammer 40k mmo for my warhammer fix
Mythic has like 5k PVPers playing the game. Thats it.. and the dream of these PVPers is to shut down the PVE content all together. And they are doing a good job of it.
So much potential gone to waste. Just because of few ppl that desided that its "RVR or NOTHING"
My biggest complaint was the PvE mob A.I.
I have never seen more stupid mobs. And for someone who enjoyed both the PvE and the RvR from DAoC equally, I was really disappointed.
I can tell no difference between me fighting a freakin' wolf or a human. They all seem to respond the same, I'm not even sure if there is a different process they follow.
I wanted to like this game. I was so excited the day it came out and went and bought my copy.
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I agree. What was cool with DAoC was during the PvE you forged relationships with your realms members. Then going off with them to do RvR was like icing on the cake.
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This game is bad, and still no better than what it was when it first started. Bad engine with no balance at all and on top of that it lacked content... Its no better now than it was when first realesed. If you want an MMO with good pvp then Darkfall would beat this game hands down