The answer is simple,Hasbro/WOTC does not put out any product that takes much of an investment.They did try once with Turbine and their single player game but it was not exactly a big project and did not sell well,so i don't see them going this route again.
If they did ever decide,it would again force them to hire an outside developer,so that creates a debt and cuts into their profits right away,these guys are not even 5% close to being able to develop their own game.SO financially it is a very bad idea for the way Hasbro operates,chances are VERY slim.
Also WOTC cancelled their license with Lucas Arts,so if they feel a Star Wars license is not very lucrative,they will not find anything else very lucrative.The only way i see this ever happening is if some outside developer licenses it from Hasbro and that would be VERY costly and not worth anyone's effort.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
From reading some info over at the Dungeons and Dragons community site it seems that WoTC had the rights reverted back to them and now they are just sitting on the setting. If they do currently own the rights to Dragonlance then we will never see a new campaign setting and doubtful they would ever do a MMO.
Given interdimensional travel and spell-jamming, you would think there would be enough there to unite all of the ad&d "worlds"...Greyhawk, FR, DL, Athas, Eberron...
Dragonlance likely wouldn't work for the same reason a Star Wars MMO doesn't -- the storyline is essentially locked within the conflict of the wars and no real way for players to advance it. As another poster mentioned, it's "deprotagonizing".
On the flipside, Forgotten Realms is an established ip, but pretty wide open as well.
I'd play a FR and DL MMORPG in a heartbeat IF they make it in the same vein as vanguard and have the world be massive and open. NO instancing except for other dimensions, underworld, etc. Need MMORPGS to get away from these hack jobs with world building the likes of which AoC and EQ2 represent. Vanguard and WoW do it right. World wise. the rest obviously needs to follow the massive amount of lore available and the spells, combat etc. provided by the pnp game but translated into real time action. So less worrying about THAC0 numbers and more about adventuring and immersion.
I wonder if the Deathgate Cycle books would make a good MMORPG?
Cryptic was rumored at one point to be making a NWN MMO. With their... let's say recent challenges I'm not sure how that is progressing. There hasn't been any news that I've been able to find.
Given interdimensional travel and spell-jamming, you would think there would be enough there to unite all of the ad&d "worlds"...Greyhawk, FR, DL, Athas, Eberron...
</p> <p>I honestly think Wizards learned a lesson from the experiences TSR had with that whole business with Spelljammer, Planescape and Ravenloft, that fans aren't necessarily appreciative of mixing the IPs they enjoy. To many people it just feels like what's special is being adulterated and blended together. Somebody, like me, might like the Realms, and Krynn and Eberron, but do we want them all together? Not necessarily. And there's plenty of people who don't like one or more of the settings and wouldn't want them touching the ones they do with a 10-foot pole.</p> <p>And that's not even getting into the issue of a dynamic and developing world. There are still folks who want things to go back to the old grey box!</p> <p> </p> <p> </p>
I think the persistent worlds that were player made using the NWN toolset back in 2002, have done the most justice to D&D since it's online inception. The scope and originality of some of the ones I have played on over the years beggar most MMO content available today.
As someone mentioned earlier, 4e is shallow. I seriously dread any future d&d title based on 4th edition rules.
Having read 90% of the FR books I would also like to see a first class immersive mmo setting. I just cannot see it happening, with the current trends in the gaming industry.
Ach, the thought of a raid group full of rangers called drizzle/drisst/drizzml1111eet!s just horrifies me.
Now a d&d MMO based on the Bloodwars (abyss vs the nine hells) would totally rock
Lol Thaco has been gone a long time, friend. I do agree, though
Man, THAC0 never died! Bah! That's crazy talk I tell ya, crazy talk! I just got back from our Saturday night AD&D 2nd Edition gaming group and my math skills are at +3.
Your:
THAC0 is 14
Your Strength gives you +2 to hit
You're wielding a longsword +1
Your opponent has a -4 Armor Class
What do you need on a d20 to hit?
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Nothing like games that allowed you to use your imagination and promted you to use math and (with a good DM) social skills!
Math and Imagination? The Hero System is what you mean then. Calculus isn't necessary, but it sure helps.
No, never played the Hero System. Was referring to AD&D 2nd Ed. I've never really been a superhero fan. I love Batman and if pressed to make a pick of overall best superhero I'd choose him. Other than, never wanted to pnp play a superhero which is why I passed on COH, COV and CO.
The system itself via the small writeup on wikipedia sounds interesting but it would have to be used with a non-superhero setting for me to bite.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I remember having a Swashbuckler in Baldur's Gate 2 with an AC of something like -25 (it was capped there, if I'm not mistaken). It was a lean mean dodge-machine.
I remember having a Swashbuckler in Baldur's Gate 2 with an AC of something like -25 (it was capped there, if I'm not mistaken). It was a lean mean dodge-machine.
Yeah, BG2 broke the rules, since -10 AC was as low as you could get.
As someone mentioned earlier, 4e is shallow. I seriously dread any future d&d tAs someone mentioned earlier, 4e is shallow. I seriously dread any future d&d title based on 4th edition rules.itle based on 4th edition rules.
Well, me, I feel the opposite. I want a 4th edition game because I enjoy it and think it'll translate well to a CRPG. But do you feel 4th edition is shallow based on the system mechanics, or the actual content available for it?
As someone mentioned earlier, 4e is shallow. I seriously dread any future d&d tAs someone mentioned earlier, 4e is shallow. I seriously dread any future d&d title based on 4th edition rules.itle based on 4th edition rules.
Well, me, I feel the opposite. I want a 4th edition game because I enjoy it and think it'll translate well to a CRPG. But do you feel 4th edition is shallow based on the system mechanics, or the actual content available for it?
the game mechanics are so shallow a small child can get it. When I looked over a lot of the spells in the handbook it seems very dumbed down and a lot of them were just the same spell worded differently. Healing surges are stupid. I could go on, but we are talking about video games.
As for Heroes System..actually you can use Heroes system to do almost any kind of setting. It's not just for super heroes. It's quite fun and very in depth.
Here is how this would go down. The target audience would not be over a million, as it will be people who play D&D or read tose books. Both of which I would not consider very casual.
The publisher would demand mass market. They would make a casual game, and it would fail because the target audience would hate it for being too shallow/simple.
As someone mentioned earlier, 4e is shallow. I seriously dread any future d&d tAs someone mentioned earlier, 4e is shallow. I seriously dread any future d&d title based on 4th edition rules.itle based on 4th edition rules.
Well, me, I feel the opposite. I want a 4th edition game because I enjoy it and think it'll translate well to a CRPG. But do you feel 4th edition is shallow based on the system mechanics, or the actual content available for it?
the game mechanics are so shallow a small child can get it. When I looked over a lot of the spells in the handbook it seems very dumbed down and a lot of them were just the same spell worded differently. Healing surges are stupid. I could go on, but we are talking about video games.
As for Heroes System..actually you can use Heroes system to do almost any kind of setting. It's not just for super heroes. It's quite fun and very in depth.
HS is a different kind of system though. It isn't going for being highly balanced, which 4th was. One beautiful aspect of 4th is that a player can choose the kind of character he wants to make and no matter what class or race he chooses it is almost impossible to make a character that is bad (e.g. creativity is not punished).
4th is a pretty solid system overall and it is fun. There are definite problems with how the PHB was written though. A player picking that book up and reading it doesn't feel like he has many options in play even if he's played other RPGs. There's nothing encouraging or even making him aware of Page 42 in the DMG which goes how the DM can arbitrate ANY crazy thing the player comes up with. It's hard to overcome that. I had mild success by giving all my players a free ability once per encounter that was anything thematically appropriate for their character (they could make it up on the spot and I'd use the page 42 DMG rules to make it balanced)...only mild success though.*
I can see where you are coming from about it all seeming the same, but it really isn't. Classes do play differently. Now, I will admit that they got much better at making new abilities after the PHB came out (more experience with the system helped a lot).
*This problem and the fact Pi = 4 are the only things that bother me about 4th, really. Well, ritual costs are ridiculous as well.
the game mechanics are so shallow a small child can get it. When I looked over a lot of the spells in the handbook it seems very dumbed down and a lot of them were just the same spell worded differently. Healing surges are stupid.
I will certainly agree that 4th edition is more clearly written than prior editions were, but that's not a bad thing in my opinion. The Red Box was aimed at young children too, and I know many folks who like Basic D&D over other editions even today.
So why are healing surges stupid, and how were the spells dumbed down? I can get how you might see a lot of the spells as similar from just the handbook, they did work from having actual mechanics to handle things as opposed to arbitrary descriptions. It's part of why I like the game, instead of random junk cobbled together because they were interesting, they thought about how to make well, systems.
I could go on, but we are talking about video games.
Want to talk about some of the D&D computer games? They range from D&D in name only to attempts to simulate the mechanics without coming close to the real fun of the game. In which direction should a hypothetical Dragonlance/FR/Planescape/whatever else you want go?
the game mechanics are so shallow a small child can get it. When I looked over a lot of the spells in the handbook it seems very dumbed down and a lot of them were just the same spell worded differently. Healing surges are stupid.
I will certainly agree that 4th edition is more clearly written than prior editions were, but that's not a bad thing in my opinion. The Red Box was aimed at young children too, and I know many folks who like Basic D&D over other editions even today.
So why are healing surges stupid, and how were the spells dumbed down? I can get how you might see a lot of the spells as similar from just the handbook, they did work from having actual mechanics to handle things as opposed to arbitrary descriptions. It's part of why I like the game, instead of random junk cobbled together because they were interesting, they thought about how to make well, systems.
I could go on, but we are talking about video games.
Want to talk about some of the D&D computer games? They range from D&D in name only to attempts to simulate the mechanics without coming close to the real fun of the game. In which direction should a hypothetical Dragonlance/FR/Planescape/whatever else you want go?
Simulation of the game mechanics is a large part of the "fun" equation I would think. Else the game would be no different than many other fantasy themed games on the market. There are mechanics within the D&D systems (based on the various editions) that make them uniquely D&D and further there are mechanics within the various settings that make those settings unique. If those mechanics aren't simulated than it would in turn become the same generic fantasy systems used in other fantasy games with a FR/DL/DS/R/P skin over it. While it may look nice and familiar, once you started playing and progressing your character it would become apparent it wasn't the same system you enjoyed in pnp form.
So I guess I'm curious by why you mean by "real fun". For me it's the actual systems of the game/setting (even if and especially so when they are what some call "complicated") and the interaction with others while playing within that system.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
So I guess I'm curious by why you mean by "real fun". For me it's the actual systems of the game/setting (even if and especially so when they are what some call "complicated") and the interaction with others while playing within that system.
Well, the latter was lacking in the games I played, but then that was a long time ago, and presumably would be resolved with an MMO. At least partially, as in there will be other people around. I don't think there could ever be quite the same inherent freedom, but then it's not like I didn't have DMs who railroaded too.
To address the former, what I like about Krynn, and Faerun, and Athas, and Eberron isn't tied to the mechanics. I like the Kender, the Draconians, Elminster, Alias and Drizzt, the tyrant ruled cities of the wastes of the Tyr Region, I like Warforged and um...ok, I'm pretty stuck there for Eberron, nothing else really draws me.
But it's not so much the mechanics as the concepts that draw me to those worlds. In fact, while I like the idea of psionics, none of the rules for it in the previous systems were entirely satisfactory to me. Do I like the rules of D&D? Sure, but I won't turn my nose up at a game set in Waterdeep just because the person running it has adapted it to say GURPS. I do reserve the right not to like a system, I don't like 3.x, for example, which keeps me from really trying D&D Online (that and the pain I had installing it), but that's another matter.
(Besides I think many MMORPG games are effectively D&D-esque already, the details are different but the structure is the same.)
I want a Planescape MMO. Its the coolest DnD setting and the best fit for MMOs due to the nature of planes and the already in place factions and their constant petty warring. Plus it literally lets you RP anything you like if you are into that kind of thing.
Its not a coincidence that one of the best CRPGs ever made, Torment, was set in Sigil/Planescape.
that would be good, that would be "i'll give my first born child" good.
Comments
The answer is simple,Hasbro/WOTC does not put out any product that takes much of an investment.They did try once with Turbine and their single player game but it was not exactly a big project and did not sell well,so i don't see them going this route again.
If they did ever decide,it would again force them to hire an outside developer,so that creates a debt and cuts into their profits right away,these guys are not even 5% close to being able to develop their own game.SO financially it is a very bad idea for the way Hasbro operates,chances are VERY slim.
Also WOTC cancelled their license with Lucas Arts,so if they feel a Star Wars license is not very lucrative,they will not find anything else very lucrative.The only way i see this ever happening is if some outside developer licenses it from Hasbro and that would be VERY costly and not worth anyone's effort.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
From reading some info over at the Dungeons and Dragons community site it seems that WoTC had the rights reverted back to them and now they are just sitting on the setting. If they do currently own the rights to Dragonlance then we will never see a new campaign setting and doubtful they would ever do a MMO.
Given interdimensional travel and spell-jamming, you would think there would be enough there to unite all of the ad&d "worlds"...Greyhawk, FR, DL, Athas, Eberron...
Dragonlance likely wouldn't work for the same reason a Star Wars MMO doesn't -- the storyline is essentially locked within the conflict of the wars and no real way for players to advance it. As another poster mentioned, it's "deprotagonizing".
On the flipside, Forgotten Realms is an established ip, but pretty wide open as well.
I'd play a FR and DL MMORPG in a heartbeat IF they make it in the same vein as vanguard and have the world be massive and open. NO instancing except for other dimensions, underworld, etc. Need MMORPGS to get away from these hack jobs with world building the likes of which AoC and EQ2 represent. Vanguard and WoW do it right. World wise. the rest obviously needs to follow the massive amount of lore available and the spells, combat etc. provided by the pnp game but translated into real time action. So less worrying about THAC0 numbers and more about adventuring and immersion.
I wonder if the Deathgate Cycle books would make a good MMORPG?
Lol Thaco has been gone a long time, friend. I do agree, though
What, you don't want a new skin for CO...now with more Drizzt!
<p>
</p><p>I honestly think Wizards learned a lesson from the experiences TSR had with that whole business with Spelljammer, Planescape and Ravenloft, that fans aren't necessarily appreciative of mixing the IPs they enjoy. To many people it just feels like what's special is being adulterated and blended together. Somebody, like me, might like the Realms, and Krynn and Eberron, but do we want them all together? Not necessarily. And there's plenty of people who don't like one or more of the settings and wouldn't want them touching the ones they do with a 10-foot pole.</p>
<p>And that's not even getting into the issue of a dynamic and developing world. There are still folks who want things to go back to the old grey box!</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
I think the persistent worlds that were player made using the NWN toolset back in 2002, have done the most justice to D&D since it's online inception. The scope and originality of some of the ones I have played on over the years beggar most MMO content available today.
As someone mentioned earlier, 4e is shallow. I seriously dread any future d&d title based on 4th edition rules.
Having read 90% of the FR books I would also like to see a first class immersive mmo setting. I just cannot see it happening, with the current trends in the gaming industry.
Ach, the thought of a raid group full of rangers called drizzle/drisst/drizzml1111eet!s just horrifies me.
Now a d&d MMO based on the Bloodwars (abyss vs the nine hells) would totally rock
Man, THAC0 never died! Bah! That's crazy talk I tell ya, crazy talk! I just got back from our Saturday night AD&D 2nd Edition gaming group and my math skills are at +3.
Your:
THAC0 is 14
Your Strength gives you +2 to hit
You're wielding a longsword +1
Your opponent has a -4 Armor Class
What do you need on a d20 to hit?
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
15! Damn, good old times.
REALITY CHECK
AD&D Street Cred Certified! Buy that man an ale!
Nothing like games that allowed you to use your imagination and promted you to use math and (with a good DM) social skills!
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Math and Imagination? The Hero System is what you mean then. Calculus isn't necessary, but it sure helps.
No, never played the Hero System. Was referring to AD&D 2nd Ed. I've never really been a superhero fan. I love Batman and if pressed to make a pick of overall best superhero I'd choose him. Other than, never wanted to pnp play a superhero which is why I passed on COH, COV and CO.
The system itself via the small writeup on wikipedia sounds interesting but it would have to be used with a non-superhero setting for me to bite.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I remember having a Swashbuckler in Baldur's Gate 2 with an AC of something like -25 (it was capped there, if I'm not mistaken). It was a lean mean dodge-machine.
Yeah, BG2 broke the rules, since -10 AC was as low as you could get.
As someone mentioned earlier, 4e is shallow. I seriously dread any future d&d tAs someone mentioned earlier, 4e is shallow. I seriously dread any future d&d title based on 4th edition rules.itle based on 4th edition rules.
Well, me, I feel the opposite. I want a 4th edition game because I enjoy it and think it'll translate well to a CRPG. But do you feel 4th edition is shallow based on the system mechanics, or the actual content available for it?
the game mechanics are so shallow a small child can get it. When I looked over a lot of the spells in the handbook it seems very dumbed down and a lot of them were just the same spell worded differently. Healing surges are stupid. I could go on, but we are talking about video games.
As for Heroes System..actually you can use Heroes system to do almost any kind of setting. It's not just for super heroes. It's quite fun and very in depth.
planescape would have made the best D&D MMO setting.
Here is how this would go down. The target audience would not be over a million, as it will be people who play D&D or read tose books. Both of which I would not consider very casual.
The publisher would demand mass market. They would make a casual game, and it would fail because the target audience would hate it for being too shallow/simple.
That pretty much sums it up.
HS is a different kind of system though. It isn't going for being highly balanced, which 4th was. One beautiful aspect of 4th is that a player can choose the kind of character he wants to make and no matter what class or race he chooses it is almost impossible to make a character that is bad (e.g. creativity is not punished).
4th is a pretty solid system overall and it is fun. There are definite problems with how the PHB was written though. A player picking that book up and reading it doesn't feel like he has many options in play even if he's played other RPGs. There's nothing encouraging or even making him aware of Page 42 in the DMG which goes how the DM can arbitrate ANY crazy thing the player comes up with. It's hard to overcome that. I had mild success by giving all my players a free ability once per encounter that was anything thematically appropriate for their character (they could make it up on the spot and I'd use the page 42 DMG rules to make it balanced)...only mild success though.*
I can see where you are coming from about it all seeming the same, but it really isn't. Classes do play differently. Now, I will admit that they got much better at making new abilities after the PHB came out (more experience with the system helped a lot).
*This problem and the fact Pi = 4 are the only things that bother me about 4th, really. Well, ritual costs are ridiculous as well.
the game mechanics are so shallow a small child can get it. When I looked over a lot of the spells in the handbook it seems very dumbed down and a lot of them were just the same spell worded differently. Healing surges are stupid.
I will certainly agree that 4th edition is more clearly written than prior editions were, but that's not a bad thing in my opinion. The Red Box was aimed at young children too, and I know many folks who like Basic D&D over other editions even today.
So why are healing surges stupid, and how were the spells dumbed down? I can get how you might see a lot of the spells as similar from just the handbook, they did work from having actual mechanics to handle things as opposed to arbitrary descriptions. It's part of why I like the game, instead of random junk cobbled together because they were interesting, they thought about how to make well, systems.
I could go on, but we are talking about video games.
Want to talk about some of the D&D computer games? They range from D&D in name only to attempts to simulate the mechanics without coming close to the real fun of the game. In which direction should a hypothetical Dragonlance/FR/Planescape/whatever else you want go?
Simulation of the game mechanics is a large part of the "fun" equation I would think. Else the game would be no different than many other fantasy themed games on the market. There are mechanics within the D&D systems (based on the various editions) that make them uniquely D&D and further there are mechanics within the various settings that make those settings unique. If those mechanics aren't simulated than it would in turn become the same generic fantasy systems used in other fantasy games with a FR/DL/DS/R/P skin over it. While it may look nice and familiar, once you started playing and progressing your character it would become apparent it wasn't the same system you enjoyed in pnp form.
So I guess I'm curious by why you mean by "real fun". For me it's the actual systems of the game/setting (even if and especially so when they are what some call "complicated") and the interaction with others while playing within that system.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Well, the latter was lacking in the games I played, but then that was a long time ago, and presumably would be resolved with an MMO. At least partially, as in there will be other people around. I don't think there could ever be quite the same inherent freedom, but then it's not like I didn't have DMs who railroaded too.
To address the former, what I like about Krynn, and Faerun, and Athas, and Eberron isn't tied to the mechanics. I like the Kender, the Draconians, Elminster, Alias and Drizzt, the tyrant ruled cities of the wastes of the Tyr Region, I like Warforged and um...ok, I'm pretty stuck there for Eberron, nothing else really draws me.
But it's not so much the mechanics as the concepts that draw me to those worlds. In fact, while I like the idea of psionics, none of the rules for it in the previous systems were entirely satisfactory to me. Do I like the rules of D&D? Sure, but I won't turn my nose up at a game set in Waterdeep just because the person running it has adapted it to say GURPS. I do reserve the right not to like a system, I don't like 3.x, for example, which keeps me from really trying D&D Online (that and the pain I had installing it), but that's another matter.
(Besides I think many MMORPG games are effectively D&D-esque already, the details are different but the structure is the same.)
What about d20 Modern with Urban Arcana?
Anyone think that'd work?
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
that would be good, that would be "i'll give my first born child" good.
I need more vespene gas.