I have the feeling 4th editon is solely intended to bring MMORPG players into PNP gaming.
This also works the other way: it would make sense there will be a 4th edition MMORPG in some time.
Game-world-wise, I prefer Dragonlance (any age) over Forgotten Realms because I feel it's a more coherent world, while FR is many independent settings, only connected by being on the same map. Besides, draconians are much cooler than orcs and kender are much cooler than halflings. There are already too many games with orcs and halflings.
I have the feeling 4th editon is solely intended to bring MMORPG players into PNP gaming.
This also works the other way: it would make sense there will be a 4th edition MMORPG in some time.
A lot of people's common complaint about 4th edition is that it's a PNP MMO. I feel it's finally a chance to a sensible set of mechanics as opposed to what crude ideas they had back in the 70s and 80s. Anything else is entirely in the hands of your DM...as it always has been.
<blockquote>Game-world-wise, I prefer Dragonlance (any age) over Forgotten Realms because I feel it's a more coherent world, while FR is many independent settings, only connected by being on the same map. Besides, draconians are much cooler than orcs and kender are much cooler than halflings. There are already too many games with orcs and halflings.</blockquote>
Ahem...Fifth Age? No thanks!
Besides, the Realms has Dracon...er, Dragonborn now. It happened after they did their 4th edition reboot, they brought the Dragonborn over from the mirror world of Abeir along with this whole continent.
Kender were left behind, because the gods all threatened to blow up the world again.
the thing with all these book serie on average its very hard to have a full story
you get this time fram snippet then oups they go on the same time period but at the other end of the map etc
trying to make an mmo out of this is a very hard task just researching to have the proper order of the story would take years thats just for the story nobody has that time
unless the story is time framed and said on the book so its easy to follow it will never reach a proper status for any project other then reading them!
, i mean cmon with all the worlds, you already have portals and all, its like those 7 books were meant to be an mmorpg some day, and if some decent e.g ncsoft,biowere,blizzard took that i.p that could have been one of the best games ever, just picture all those Patryns in the The Labyrinth fighting aginst the dragons etc. lots of factions, lots of races, magic,dragnos,brand new worlds like never seen before on an mmorpg, underwater lore, i can go on....
god id pay good $$$ for that shit.
I 3930k -- Rampage IV Extreme -- G.skill RipjawsZ 32 GB -- Corsair Force Series 3 120gb -- G.skill Phoenix Pro 60gb -- WD 1 TB Black -- Corsair H 100 -- Thermaltake Level 10 Gt Snow Edition -- Corsair AX1200 -- Asus 560 Ti Sli -- Microsoft Sidewinder X4 -- Logitech G5 -- DELL UltraSharp 2007FP -- Samsung Syncmaster Sa700 -- Logitech Z2300 -- Logitech G35 -- Logitech G600 White -- coming soon : Dell U2711.
, i mean cmon with all the worlds, you already have portals and all, its like those 7 books were meant to be an mmorpg some day, and if some decent e.g ncsoft,biowere,blizzard took that i.p that could have been one of the best games ever, just picture all those Patryns in the The Labyrinth fighting aginst the dragons etc. lots of factions, lots of races, magic,dragnos,brand new worlds like never seen before on an mmorpg, underwater lore, i can go on....
god id pay good $$$ for that shit.
I agree except for letting NCSoft get their grubby dick skinners on it they have the most horrible track record for supporting games it makes m want to vomit.
I know there is DDO and it was ok, but I have never understood why WoTC never lisenced their Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance properties for an MMO. People would flock to playing either one of them. Eberron was not that popular and then to give it to Turbine...ugh. I mean, AC and AC2 were decent, but Turbine? I honestly wish Bioware would have done a D&D MMO. There is a lot of talk about Cryptic getting to do a Neverwinter Nights MMO/D&D MMO next. Atari use to/still does have the rights to D&D I think. There was some sort of lawsuit wasn't there?
All I know is those two properties would make a killing. You throw in some D&D writers to do the plots/quests like DCUO is doing with the DC comics writers and maybe talk Larry Elmore into doing the art and this thing would fly off shelves if it was done right!
At this point I would even welcome Blizzard doing either property as their "next gen MMO" I just will never understand how WoTC/Hasbro can sit on two great properties and throw out buttloads of "fluff D&D" books and then never capitalize on those worlds as MMO's. Then again, they did produce 4e...
DDO wasn't an MMORPG, more like a multiplayer co-op game. Forgotten Realms is made for being an MMO, and so is the D&D system. D&D made roleplaying, rpg combat, loot, all that stuff popular in the first place, so it's odd no one has made a decent D&D MMORPG yet.
I never cared for Dragonlance. Read a couple of books and didn't find them entertaining. Just didnt' like the setting the cahracters, the races, none of it appealed to me.
, i mean cmon with all the worlds, you already have portals and all, its like those 7 books were meant to be an mmorpg some day, and if some decent e.g ncsoft,biowere,blizzard took that i.p that could have been one of the best games ever, just picture all those Patryns in the The Labyrinth fighting aginst the dragons etc. lots of factions, lots of races, magic,dragnos,brand new worlds like never seen before on an mmorpg, underwater lore, i can go on....
god id pay good $$$ for that shit.
I agree except for letting NCSoft get their grubby dick skinners on it they have the most horrible track record for supporting games it makes m want to vomit.
yeah sry about that, i meant a.net., i always get them mix up
I 3930k -- Rampage IV Extreme -- G.skill RipjawsZ 32 GB -- Corsair Force Series 3 120gb -- G.skill Phoenix Pro 60gb -- WD 1 TB Black -- Corsair H 100 -- Thermaltake Level 10 Gt Snow Edition -- Corsair AX1200 -- Asus 560 Ti Sli -- Microsoft Sidewinder X4 -- Logitech G5 -- DELL UltraSharp 2007FP -- Samsung Syncmaster Sa700 -- Logitech Z2300 -- Logitech G35 -- Logitech G600 White -- coming soon : Dell U2711.
Cryptic is suppose to be working on a NWN mmo. Probably not what anyone wants to hear given their track record. As a huge NWN fan I doubt I would buy it. Cryptic clearly doesn't know how to make a fun game. With any luck Cryptic won't be around much longer, and some other studio gets the game.
I never cared for Dragonlance. Read a couple of books and didn't find them entertaining. Just didnt' like the setting the cahracters, the races, none of it appealed to me.
Any chance you can identify which books? There's so many Dragonlance books that you could have read some of the stinkers (and yes, that includes some by Weis and Hickman) which didn't even cover the more interesting characters and races.
And you could say the same about the Forgotten Realms...
I have never seen a tabletop ruleset, designed for a tempered pace in a turn-based game with no expansions, translate well into an MMO ruleset, designed for real-time frenetic pacing and providing continuous content for the same characters. Additionally I see no inherent value in trying to translate it over, besides the nostalgic appeal of rolling a die with some absurd number of sides, because it seems every D&D fan is a fan of a different ruleset with a 20 page explanation on why their favorite ruleset is so superior. It's not that difficult to come up with basic combat mechanics for a decent mmo.
As for class design, abilities, spells, and the lore, however, I would absolutely expect it to be taken right out of the books and may require some ruleset bickering. I would hope spells are more diverse, with not every one serving a clear-cut purpose, and taking more to cast than a sliver of a 'blue' bar and pushing a button. But I definitely think this type of content speaks more of the D&D worlds than whether or not the words "Armor Class" appear somewhere on your character sheet.
The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.
I have never seen a tabletop ruleset, designed for a tempered pace in a turn-based game with no expansions, translate well into an MMO ruleset, designed for real-time frenetic pacing and providing continuous content for the same characters. Additionally I see no inherent value in trying to translate it over, besides the nostalgic appeal of rolling a die with some absurd number of sides, because it seems every D&D fan is a fan of a different ruleset with a 20 page explanation on why their favorite ruleset is so superior. It's not that difficult to come up with basic combat mechanics for a decent mmo.
As for class design, abilities, spells, and the lore, however, I would absolutely expect it to be taken right out of the books and may require some ruleset bickering. I would hope spells are more diverse, with not every one serving a clear-cut purpose, and taking more to cast than a sliver of a 'blue' bar and pushing a button. But I definitely think this type of content speaks more of the D&D worlds than whether or not the words "Armor Class" appear somewhere on your character sheet.
I don't think anyone really cares to much about which "dice rolls" are going on in the background of combat in an MMORPG since all of that is in the background anyway.
D20, whatever, it's not really important.
However, one aspect of D&D does not really translate well, and that is Player Versus Player. D&D was designed to be played as a co-op game.
The Players versus the Dungeon Master, and the job of the DM was to make it fun for the players.
Therefore there is no "balance".
A high level thief is not supposed to be able to go toe to toe with a high level Fighter, but together they make a good co-op team.
I never cared for Dragonlance. Read a couple of books and didn't find them entertaining. Just didnt' like the setting the cahracters, the races, none of it appealed to me.
Any chance you can identify which books? There's so many Dragonlance books that you could have read some of the stinkers (and yes, that includes some by Weis and Hickman) which didn't even cover the more interesting characters and races.
And you could say the same about the Forgotten Realms...
Don't really remember. There were kender, and these brothers, and one was a mage, but I think using his magical ability made him sick, or something like that. It was terrible.
Don't really remember. There were kender, and these brothers, and one was a mage, but I think using his magical ability made him sick, or something like that. It was terrible.
Sounds like that was Brothers Majere, one of the Preludes books.
I'm split. I want to see a FR MMORPG (especially since FR has been the primary IP for D&D computer games), but on the other hand, it wouldn't feel like a D&D game. Or at least, I don't see how it could feel like it. In D&D your character is the protagonist, the hero, but in an MMORPG, you're just another brick in the wall.
However, one aspect of D&D does not really translate well, and that is Player Versus Player. D&D was designed to be played as a co-op game.
The Players versus the Dungeon Master, and the job of the DM was to make it fun for the players.
Therefore there is no "balance".
A high level thief is not supposed to be able to go toe to toe with a high level Fighter, but together they make a good co-op team.
There is a solution to that (tried and true): forget PvP. Make it a roleplaying focused story telling game - roleplaying is about stories.
In addition, this is supposed D&D game, so if the races and classes aren't perfectly balanced in that game, keep it that way. Gully Dwarves should be a perfectly viable, ultra-weak race.
Besides, there isn't much around for roleplayers nowadays (LotRO on the RP server probably being the best option).
DDO wasn't an MMORPG, more like a multiplayer co-op game. Forgotten Realms is made for being an MMO, and so is the D&D system. D&D made roleplaying, rpg combat, loot, all that stuff popular in the first place, so it's odd no one has made a decent D&D MMORPG yet.
I never cared for Dragonlance. Read a couple of books and didn't find them entertaining. Just didnt' like the setting the cahracters, the races, none of it appealed to me.
Why can't an MMORPG be a massively multiplayer co-op game with actual role-playing?
About the second part:: I did read most Forgotten Realms books as well as most Dragonlance books. There is quite a lot of difference between those, which is actually a good thing. One of the main things why I prefer Dragonlance is because their characters do actually have some (big) character flaws and aren't just shallow super-heroes or super-villains like too many FR characters.
I've always been more of a Greyhawk fan myself, but yeah, I could play a FR or DL game. Good thing about play one of the two would be that during down time in between doing things, you could count the number of toons with names based on Raistlin, Caramon, Tanis, and Drizzt.
I would definetely vote for an mmorpg based on the d&d ruleset and forgotten realms setup. I still havent met an mmorpg with real roleplay fanbase with a nicely made world based on FR. Only expirience close to it was a nwn 1 multiplayer module called Narc's blood which it was loads of fun had great roleplay community,even pvp involved ,adventuring/exploration and it was made by just a few guys mading mods based on the nwn 1 engine and toolset. I cant imagine the possibilities if a FR mmorpg version was to be made under a big developing companie and ofc was made in the proper way.That would be fun and back to good old adventuring days we all so miss
Turbine could probably make an economically viable version.
Start with LotRO, add new character models (add new models to LotRO and DDO as well, while you are at it), add DDO's D20 system and quest quality (including traps and puzzles, excluding all those stupid barrels and other breakables).
Maybe offer D&D book writers to write "adventure packs" and get a part of the proceedings from those? Should provide both good quality quests and good marketing.
If the rumors and educated guesses that Cryptic is working on a Forgotten Realms MMO are accurate, I could get excited for that. Whilst Cryptic hasn't thus far been amongst my favorite developers, I do think they're a good match for the 4E Forgotten Realms. 3.5E I'd rather have seen handled by Sigil, but so much for that.
Originally posted by Zilverrug
Turbine could probably make an economically viable version.
Start with LotRO, add new character models (add new models to LotRO and DDO as well, while you are at it), add DDO's D20 system and quest quality (including traps and puzzles, excluding all those stupid barrels and other breakables).
Maybe offer D&D book writers to write "adventure packs" and get a part of the proceedings from those? Should provide both good quality quests and good marketing.
I'd take that. One thing I think Turbine desperately needs to adopt, though, is SpeedTree....
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
I've always dreamed of more Forgotten Realms games, be they (massively) multiplayer or singleplayer. I remain a huge fan of the original Baldur's Gate and its sequel, Icewind Dale, and Planescape:Torment.
Naturally, I'd give a Forgotten Realms MMO a chance.
I have two visions (brought to me by GabrielTM):
* One is a MMO with 2D isometric view just like Baldur's Gate (!) It has a certain charm to it, and this way the MMO could actually allow a player to run a party of adventurers instead of just one character! Why not? Would certainly be something new (and those who prefer one character could have that, too). Before you flame, think on it. With 2D isometric views, you could expand the gameworld considerably; there would be room for everybody to be wandering the wilds in search of adventure, and what cool when two adventuring parties cross each other's paths.
* Another is the more traditional 3D, one-character "Forgotten Realms Online", where the core game gives you the lands of Cormyr, the Dalelands, and Sembia, with subsequent expansions adding other areas (like LOTRO does it); that could be cool too. I'd love to walk from say Shadowdale down the road into Cormyr, take ship there and cross the Sea of Falling Stars and disembark in Westgate...
Comments
I have the feeling 4th editon is solely intended to bring MMORPG players into PNP gaming.
This also works the other way: it would make sense there will be a 4th edition MMORPG in some time.
Game-world-wise, I prefer Dragonlance (any age) over Forgotten Realms because I feel it's a more coherent world, while FR is many independent settings, only connected by being on the same map. Besides, draconians are much cooler than orcs and kender are much cooler than halflings. There are already too many games with orcs and halflings.
I hope that Cryptic get their hands on this IP. They would make a awesome game out of it
/irony off
A lot of people's common complaint about 4th edition is that it's a PNP MMO. I feel it's finally a chance to a sensible set of mechanics as opposed to what crude ideas they had back in the 70s and 80s. Anything else is entirely in the hands of your DM...as it always has been.
<blockquote>Game-world-wise, I prefer Dragonlance (any age) over Forgotten Realms because I feel it's a more coherent world, while FR is many independent settings, only connected by being on the same map. Besides, draconians are much cooler than orcs and kender are much cooler than halflings. There are already too many games with orcs and halflings.</blockquote>
Ahem...Fifth Age? No thanks!
Besides, the Realms has Dracon...er, Dragonborn now. It happened after they did their 4th edition reboot, they brought the Dragonborn over from the mirror world of Abeir along with this whole continent.
Kender were left behind, because the gods all threatened to blow up the world again.
the thing with all these book serie on average its very hard to have a full story
you get this time fram snippet then oups they go on the same time period but at the other end of the map etc
trying to make an mmo out of this is a very hard task just researching to have the proper order of the story would take years thats just for the story nobody has that time
unless the story is time framed and said on the book so its easy to follow it will never reach a proper status for any project other then reading them!
+1 for Fr mmorpg
+2 for death gate cycle one
, i mean cmon with all the worlds, you already have portals and all, its like those 7 books were meant to be an mmorpg some day, and if some decent e.g ncsoft,biowere,blizzard took that i.p that could have been one of the best games ever, just picture all those Patryns in the The Labyrinth fighting aginst the dragons etc. lots of factions, lots of races, magic,dragnos,brand new worlds like never seen before on an mmorpg, underwater lore, i can go on....
god id pay good $$$ for that shit.
I 3930k -- Rampage IV Extreme -- G.skill RipjawsZ 32 GB -- Corsair Force Series 3 120gb -- G.skill Phoenix Pro 60gb -- WD 1 TB Black -- Corsair H 100 -- Thermaltake Level 10 Gt Snow Edition -- Corsair AX1200 -- Asus 560 Ti Sli -- Microsoft Sidewinder X4 -- Logitech G5 -- DELL UltraSharp 2007FP -- Samsung Syncmaster Sa700 -- Logitech Z2300 -- Logitech G35 -- Logitech G600 White -- coming soon : Dell U2711.
I agree except for letting NCSoft get their grubby dick skinners on it they have the most horrible track record for supporting games it makes m want to vomit.
DDO wasn't an MMORPG, more like a multiplayer co-op game. Forgotten Realms is made for being an MMO, and so is the D&D system. D&D made roleplaying, rpg combat, loot, all that stuff popular in the first place, so it's odd no one has made a decent D&D MMORPG yet.
I never cared for Dragonlance. Read a couple of books and didn't find them entertaining. Just didnt' like the setting the cahracters, the races, none of it appealed to me.
yeah sry about that, i meant a.net., i always get them mix up
I 3930k -- Rampage IV Extreme -- G.skill RipjawsZ 32 GB -- Corsair Force Series 3 120gb -- G.skill Phoenix Pro 60gb -- WD 1 TB Black -- Corsair H 100 -- Thermaltake Level 10 Gt Snow Edition -- Corsair AX1200 -- Asus 560 Ti Sli -- Microsoft Sidewinder X4 -- Logitech G5 -- DELL UltraSharp 2007FP -- Samsung Syncmaster Sa700 -- Logitech Z2300 -- Logitech G35 -- Logitech G600 White -- coming soon : Dell U2711.
Cryptic is suppose to be working on a NWN mmo. Probably not what anyone wants to hear given their track record. As a huge NWN fan I doubt I would buy it. Cryptic clearly doesn't know how to make a fun game. With any luck Cryptic won't be around much longer, and some other studio gets the game.
Any chance you can identify which books? There's so many Dragonlance books that you could have read some of the stinkers (and yes, that includes some by Weis and Hickman) which didn't even cover the more interesting characters and races.
And you could say the same about the Forgotten Realms...
I don't think they should use any D&D rulesets.
I have never seen a tabletop ruleset, designed for a tempered pace in a turn-based game with no expansions, translate well into an MMO ruleset, designed for real-time frenetic pacing and providing continuous content for the same characters. Additionally I see no inherent value in trying to translate it over, besides the nostalgic appeal of rolling a die with some absurd number of sides, because it seems every D&D fan is a fan of a different ruleset with a 20 page explanation on why their favorite ruleset is so superior. It's not that difficult to come up with basic combat mechanics for a decent mmo.
As for class design, abilities, spells, and the lore, however, I would absolutely expect it to be taken right out of the books and may require some ruleset bickering. I would hope spells are more diverse, with not every one serving a clear-cut purpose, and taking more to cast than a sliver of a 'blue' bar and pushing a button. But I definitely think this type of content speaks more of the D&D worlds than whether or not the words "Armor Class" appear somewhere on your character sheet.
The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.
I don't think anyone really cares to much about which "dice rolls" are going on in the background of combat in an MMORPG since all of that is in the background anyway.
D20, whatever, it's not really important.
However, one aspect of D&D does not really translate well, and that is Player Versus Player. D&D was designed to be played as a co-op game.
The Players versus the Dungeon Master, and the job of the DM was to make it fun for the players.
Therefore there is no "balance".
A high level thief is not supposed to be able to go toe to toe with a high level Fighter, but together they make a good co-op team.
Don't really remember. There were kender, and these brothers, and one was a mage, but I think using his magical ability made him sick, or something like that. It was terrible.
Sounds like that was Brothers Majere, one of the Preludes books.
I wouldn't judge the rest of Dragonlance by it.
I'm split. I want to see a FR MMORPG (especially since FR has been the primary IP for D&D computer games), but on the other hand, it wouldn't feel like a D&D game. Or at least, I don't see how it could feel like it. In D&D your character is the protagonist, the hero, but in an MMORPG, you're just another brick in the wall.
There is a solution to that (tried and true): forget PvP. Make it a roleplaying focused story telling game - roleplaying is about stories.
In addition, this is supposed D&D game, so if the races and classes aren't perfectly balanced in that game, keep it that way. Gully Dwarves should be a perfectly viable, ultra-weak race.
Besides, there isn't much around for roleplayers nowadays (LotRO on the RP server probably being the best option).
Why can't an MMORPG be a massively multiplayer co-op game with actual role-playing?
About the second part:: I did read most Forgotten Realms books as well as most Dragonlance books. There is quite a lot of difference between those, which is actually a good thing. One of the main things why I prefer Dragonlance is because their characters do actually have some (big) character flaws and aren't just shallow super-heroes or super-villains like too many FR characters.
"Why can't an MMORPG be a massively multiplayer co-op game with actual role-playing?"
You took the words from my mouth.
This is why I am still playing Neverwinter Nights 1. Still waiting for something good enough to replace it.
Buy Neverwinter Nights 1 here! | Unofficial NWN1 homepage | NWN1 guild on X-Fire
I've always been more of a Greyhawk fan myself, but yeah, I could play a FR or DL game. Good thing about play one of the two would be that during down time in between doing things, you could count the number of toons with names based on Raistlin, Caramon, Tanis, and Drizzt.
I would definetely vote for an mmorpg based on the d&d ruleset and forgotten realms setup. I still havent met an mmorpg with real roleplay fanbase with a nicely made world based on FR. Only expirience close to it was a nwn 1 multiplayer module called Narc's blood which it was loads of fun had great roleplay community,even pvp involved ,adventuring/exploration and it was made by just a few guys mading mods based on the nwn 1 engine and toolset. I cant imagine the possibilities if a FR mmorpg version was to be made under a big developing companie and ofc was made in the proper way.That would be fun and back to good old adventuring days we all so miss
An MMORPG that takes place in and around the city of Highmoon would be nice, Neverwinter has been done to death I think.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Turbine could probably make an economically viable version.
Start with LotRO, add new character models (add new models to LotRO and DDO as well, while you are at it), add DDO's D20 system and quest quality (including traps and puzzles, excluding all those stupid barrels and other breakables).
Maybe offer D&D book writers to write "adventure packs" and get a part of the proceedings from those? Should provide both good quality quests and good marketing.
Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance sounds cool, But I would rather play Ravenloft.
If the rumors and educated guesses that Cryptic is working on a Forgotten Realms MMO are accurate, I could get excited for that. Whilst Cryptic hasn't thus far been amongst my favorite developers, I do think they're a good match for the 4E Forgotten Realms. 3.5E I'd rather have seen handled by Sigil, but so much for that.
I'd take that. One thing I think Turbine desperately needs to adopt, though, is SpeedTree....
I've always dreamed of more Forgotten Realms games, be they (massively) multiplayer or singleplayer. I remain a huge fan of the original Baldur's Gate and its sequel, Icewind Dale, and Planescape:Torment.
Naturally, I'd give a Forgotten Realms MMO a chance.
I have two visions (brought to me by GabrielTM):
* One is a MMO with 2D isometric view just like Baldur's Gate (!) It has a certain charm to it, and this way the MMO could actually allow a player to run a party of adventurers instead of just one character! Why not? Would certainly be something new (and those who prefer one character could have that, too). Before you flame, think on it. With 2D isometric views, you could expand the gameworld considerably; there would be room for everybody to be wandering the wilds in search of adventure, and what cool when two adventuring parties cross each other's paths.
* Another is the more traditional 3D, one-character "Forgotten Realms Online", where the core game gives you the lands of Cormyr, the Dalelands, and Sembia, with subsequent expansions adding other areas (like LOTRO does it); that could be cool too. I'd love to walk from say Shadowdale down the road into Cormyr, take ship there and cross the Sea of Falling Stars and disembark in Westgate...
a nerd can dream,
a nerd can dream ...