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Am i the only one saying WTF?
wolfncoyote
Member Posts: 1
I love Final Fantasy.. I've played the entire series including a couple years of FFXI... I'm checking out FFXIV and I find myself saying WTF?! Now don't get me wrong.. I love the universe of FF, who doesnt? But at the same time.. i reserve the right to share my opinion.. so I got a couple bones to pick... and I wanna know if I'm the only one..
Bone number 1- Pick up the frackin pace!! If you're a veteran of FFXI then you know it takes 30 real time days to raise a chocobo... no matter how often you play, thats how long it takes.. This felt to me like a blatant attempt at making me pay for more months of play. I dont mind paying a monthly subscription fee at all, but I'm not going to pay to wait. Give me enough content to want to continue playing instead of giving me wait times that are so long I have to pay for another month. It's actually kind of sad, it seems that everything from the combat, to the 'rest' or 'heal' time between combat, the pace of movement, it's all been slowed down so that EVERYTHING takes extra long. I get that as an MMO company you want as much monthly subscribers as possible, but I think this is a poor choice in ways to get it done, and I won't be paying monthly for FF14 if they do things the same way. I'm not saying the combat should be super fast paced (ie Champions Online) but do I think I should wait whole months for a part of the game I've already paid for? Nah, won't do it.
Bone number 2- You guys are seriously using the same played out races? Everyone I discuss this with say oh well they're using the same races because they want FF11 players to be able to migrate to FF14 and feel more comfortable and familiar with the game. Firstly, the same races aren't going to get that done because a race is just a skin, if you paint a taru pink it's still a taru, it'll still move the same no matter what it looks like. Furthermore, Are you frackin kidding me?! Final Fantasy.. the series known for never having the same mythos in any sequel, and they were concerned FF fans wouldn't like something new? It's a joke, it's cut corners and I'm very disappointed. Don't get me wrong, most of FF11's races were cool..(I always thought elvaan looked like a bunch of tards), but to not create new races is just a way to cut creative corners and it shocked me.
Now I know I'm gonna get a million replies saying "well then dont play the game" to which i reply depending on how the trial treats me, I just might not.. but this isnt about whether or not I play the game.. this is about a franchise that I love, and bad choices made by a developer that particularly bother me. And I'm entitled to my opinion.. I just wanna know what other people think.....
I can kill 2 stones with 1 bird because I'm that much of a BAMF
Comments
I'm fairly sure Square is a rather large company, with an equally large product development team, market research team, and all that fun stuff. They create their games, especially an MMO, based off what's most popular among people who they survey.
Regarding bone #1... SE has released nothing regarding how long things take to craft, or if chocobos will be raised, how long that'll take, etc. You're interpolating based on your experience with FF11. Combat pace based off one video that shows 1 encounter and for all we know SE slowed it down intentionally for the video.
As for the races... again SE probably uses them because they're popular with the majority of the player base.
Honestly if you are so disappointed by FF14 at this stage... you have only yourself to blame. You're basing your conclusions off of FF11, and what little has been released about FF14. At this moment, how cany ANYONE hope to come to any sort of real conclusion about this game? There simply isn't enough information available... even if there was, reading about a game and playing it are two completely different things.
I for one am content to wait until release to pass judgement, as I do for any game I am anticipating.
Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.
Eh, its been pretty standard in MMOs to use the same races over and over even across multiple games.
Incase you havent noticed the trend:
Human
Orc
Gnome
Elf
Dwarf
Animal Type Race
etc.
Most times they are just named slightly different, Like 'Wood Elf' or 'Night Elf'
I mean not every game does it, but many do.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Your gripes with the game seem pretty minor if you ask me. If the game plays excellently and provides for some great gaming memories, you won't care what race you're playing and whether they're the same or not in FFXI. Truth be told, I love that they are keeping the same races. Unlike other games where you use alts to try out new classes/areas, in FFXI, you used one character to experience everything the game had to offer. Because of FFXI's game design, a lot of people grew really attached to their characters, more so than other mmos. So, if SE wants to import the fondness one feels for the characters they exclusively used to experience the content, then by all means go ahead.
A lot of people have very fond memories of their FFXI characters. If SE wants the same people who made FFXIV possible with the subscriptions to FFXI feel more at home in the new game, than I believe that's more of a "thank you" than an "F@#! You!" For those that really didn't care for FFXI, having the same races in FFXIV isn't going to make it or break it for them.
As for your first issue, having certain in-game waiting periods to complete a task is a minor issue as well. The only other thing I can remember was taking days to grow ore with my gardening, or the Choco riding quest that took 18 in game hours. I don't mind if the have "waiting periods in the game" so long as they are not blatant ploys to get people to remain subscribed. Your example seems to be the case, but that was such a minor part of the game, and wasn't even instituted till very far into FFXI's life cycle.
Ideally, FFXIV should have both elements present. They shouldnt' make 30 real day quests mandatory to progression but I don't mind if they are available to others as a sidegrade.
All in all, I havn't had issues with SE other than their initial slow response to RMT's. SE is one of the few companies who's pretty firm on their beliefs and vision of the game. I like that. I've never been a fan of "copying WoW and hoping for their subscription numbers approach" ala AoC, Aion, Warhammer, etc etc.
TLDR: Your concerns are pretty minor to the overal game and it doesn't matter if they have same races or 30 day events so long as the game provides a memorable experience.
I'm going to take it that you didn't like FFXI then? If that's the case then you probably won't like FFXIV. There are plenty of FF fans that don't like XI so you're not the only one (although the thinking that "I love FF therefore FFXI/FFXIV should be made exactly like the rest so I can enjoy it" really bothers me). Personally I love it though and think XI is the best MMO out there atm. Just to warn you I'm going to be using a lot of references to WoW since you seem to be complaining about things with the mentality of someone who likes WoW-like MMOs (action-oriented combat, expect frequent 'rewards', etc.).
The 'problems' you're seeing in the first point are the result of a mentality that's plaguing the entire MMO industry atm and it's the same reason that FFXI has one of the best MMO communities out there. Too many players want instant gratification whilst being unaware of what the current systems are actually offering them. They demand that combat be faster paced with more regular rewards that are easier and easier to get. They demand they be able to do things solo because they don't have the time or patience for groups. All the time, however, these changes are sacrificing the things that build a community in MMOs. The more downtime there is, the more players communicate with each other socially, combine that with forced grouping, an entirely player driven economy and vast array of features that encourage teamwork and coordination and you might begin to see what SE wanted to do in XI and what they'll likely do in XIV. They don't want to make a fast-paced action MMO with rewards doled out every few seconds, they want an MMO based on the community with a sense of long term accomplishment, the former once being key to the genre but lost with the launch of WoW.
Think about it, when you have downtime or waiting for an airship ride, what do you do? You chat to people! And I don't mean just the same guild/linkshell mates you normally talk to. In XI I regularly have a random conversation with random passers by whilst I wait for things (initiated by them just as often as me), I can't say this for any of the other popular MMOs released in the last six years. The most I get to say to people in the likes of WoW is asking them if they want to group, getting either an invite or plain silence as a response; the only proper conversations seen outside of private friendship circles are the likes of the infamous barrens chat (highlighting just how bad WoW's community, or lack thereof, really is).
SE have a very different concept of how to reward their players as well. Whilst the recent western releases are built on a concept of frequent rewards for little time/effort SE, instead, uses a concept of significant rewards being offered for large time/effort. Many players, like yourself, disagree with this and claim it's an attempt to milk more money from their subscriber base. The truth is though that if you're able to successfully complete such a long-term challenge, be it raising a chocobo or completing a series of storyline missions, the sense of accomplishment you get from it is far greater than you would ever get from a series of small rewards in another MMO. To put it bluntly, people who claim that things take too long are just being greedy and impatient; I often equate it to someone who plays a console game properly, and another person who uses cheats, completes it in a day and moans that it's too easy or too short. When players are rewarded too often they get bored and find themselves in MMO burnout. I think it would be quite likely that you'd find the number of FFXI subscribers who've been playing for several years to be much much higher than that of WoW.
To summarise the points you complained about:
Long term quests/missions/goals - completing them gives you a greater reward than if they were more or less given to you, some players simply are incapable of the patience required for this though.
Slow paced combat - allows for players to communicate and time coordinated attacks better (it looks like this is going to be even more important in XIV considering the combat mechanics they've released so far).
Downtime - Encourage social banter whilst waiting for things.
To put it simply FFXI, and likely FFXIV, are aimed at a very different audience to most modern MMOs. FFXI is actually much closer to the older western MMOs like EQ. There's a balance of boredom theshold; either you get bored because something is too hard or takes too long or you get bored because it's too easy or you finish too quickly. It really just depends on which side you fall with FFXI. Just please don't complain and ask them to change it just to suit you or the legion of other players out there who like things stupidly easy... many of us don't want a game like that.
As for your complaints about them not being creative with the races... errrm maybe you should look at the game a bit closer. FFXIV is quite literally a reinvention of FFXI. The world feels the same, the enemy beastmen races are still there, the same player races are there. The only things that have changed are the storyline and the names/mechanics behind a lot of it all. You may call it lazy but I'd say it's an attempt to do something better with what they already have. The less time they spend on arbitrarily altering the art style or inventing new races is more time spent on making a fun MMO that won't bomb in the first month like every major release in the last few years. As another poster said as well, almost all western fantasy MMOs copy the same race concepts so what's the big deal?
I am not with you OP.
30 days to raise a choco isnt that bad. I personally thought it should be longer, I mean your raising a darn pet. You had to feed it, Different feeds allowed for differnt growths. Same way with growing stuff in your mog house. MMO's take time, I just want to know where all this "I want it and I want it now" attitude came from. Wait never mind I know where it came from. Lets just give everybody everything soon as they log on. Many other mmo's have similar timesinks, since I am playing allods ill refrence that here, It takes 100 rl days to build an astral ship. 30 days doesnt seem so long now does it?
Using same races? Your really dissapointed about that? Like another guy said most games use same races. Not really a big deal at all. Sure some games have something different and neat like gibberlings in allods (3 little hamsters that act as 1) that novelty wears off after a few hours of gameplay. Give us good content and you wont even notice that your a galka.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
I'm actually not going to be an asshole about this.
The 30 days for a chocobo I can understand because that is a bit excessive, but I also don't see what this entails with FFXIV. If you could just elaborate on that for me please. I also haven't been paying much attention to anything besides the occasional e-mail I get that the site was updated, maybe I missed something? I do agree though that a lot of developers like to make things take incredibly long when they didn't have to.
I remember in one of the first interview video's posted someone talking about the skins being the same. Now please don't quote me on this because I am going purely off memory and haven't seen this video since a month after it was posted, but wasn't one of the main reasons for doing this because they wanted to spend more time on the rest of the game and not really have to worry about the skins?
It is disapointing though.
Let me tell you why they have the same races...
Its because of ME!!!!
Me and every other FFXI player who would love nothing more then another go at a great game with a great storyline and a great community.
As for raising a chocobo and u being entitled to the all of the game content couse you payed...makes NO GOD DAMN SENSE.
So you payed a month and you are supposed to get all the game content available ? What about all the other people who have been playing FFXI for 7 years and payed for 80+ months O.O maybe they should own SE. I mean they payed for it.
When you play an MMO you decide to pay a fee to play a video game by someone elses rules. You agree that you get out of the game what you put in and that some things do have certain time requirements attached to them. I would not have FFXI and FFXIV any other way. The time sinks and the challange of 11 made the game feel like an alternative demension where one could completly lose himself in its beauty.
Look at what raising a chocobo entails. You go to the stables and look at the bird for all of 15 minutes tops? Feed it, play with it. That's it. 15 minutes a day for 30+ days? Depending on if you raise it to cap or not. If it's going to be so long at least give me something more to do with the damn thing, I neglect my dog and I still play with him for more than 15 minutes a day.
I'm one of the people that would sit and camp nm's for days if not months and I still think the chocobo's were rediculous.
I personally have not played the game the past 2 years or so BUT is the Chocobo raising a MANDATORY quest? Could u still enjoy the game if u did not complete it? Were you still able to go where u needed to go without it? I am sorry but when it comes to "optional content" that you can not complain about. I remember the game when chocobos were just rented and that was about it. You can not complain about something that you really do not HAVE to do in game. If you decide to do it then u have agreed to everything that comes with it.
I am pretty sure that the quest was not ment to be finished in 30 days either. I am rather sure that the devs intended it as a pass time for when you had downtime and needed something to do with a fun reward at the end.
Again, basing what you think the combat will be like from the alpha youtube video is just silly. The person in that video had no idea what he was doing and was just trying to spam abilities.
It's just not the type of game where you just wait for global cooldowns so you can hit the same button again.
FFXIV will have no auto attack. All abilities will be based on gaining "tp".
I agree with the OP on both points, although I believe that it is to early to criticize the game on things like downtime since we havent played the game.
The same races issue I very much agree with. Its seems like an obvious grab at FFXI players, which is fine, but if the goal is to make a similar game to FFXI, then why not just UPDATE THE EXISTING GAME?
I mean I played FFXI and didn't particularly enjoy the races, and now before I even touch FFXIV I am already bored with a portion of the game. FFXIV better have some amazing gameplay otherwise there is no point in even looking since I have already experienced that 'world' years ago. It would be like Blizzard releasring WoW2 with the same world, races and classes but putting in some gameplay changes. It would appeal to some fans, but it seems like a huge waste of potential. If people like FFXI races, they can always play FFXI.
I am will not write the game off before I try it, but based on the company and legacy of the franchise its worrisome that they appear to be throwing out creativity and re-building what looks like the same world just to try out some new gameplay mechanics. All I can say is that they better be pretty darn good, because the world isn't going to be what makes me buy this game since I have already been there done that.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The complaints raised by the OP are valid...but the game is still being worked on and until you've had some hands on time I'd maybe refrain from comparing it too closely to FFXI.
For one thing, the gameplay will likely be faster and more action-oriented since if you read the actual interviews or follow all the stuff posted on the fan forums like www.ffxivcore.com you'd find that positioning is important and there are things like action gauges that make the combat more dynamic. It's open for debate but there is a TP gauge that fills indicating you could use smaller, weaker attacks more frequently that need TP, or save up for a bigger attack. Again it's somewhat speculation since officially even though alpha testing was announced, reports indicate it technically hasn't started so who knows?
Also they've previously stated that the game will allow both the hardcore player and the casual who may only have 1 hour to play to both enjoy a similar level of gameplay...so 30 days to raise a chocobo would be a bit ancient by todays more casual, mainstream standard.
As for the races, I was initially disappointed but then I learned there will be a much greater character customization rule set in addition to the fact that SE has HINTED there may be other races available or introduced. They have never come out and denied there are no new races and they kept the same race archetypes from FFXI primarily because eastern fans identified strongly with them (and many western players too).
So all in all I'd recommend waiting a but until alpha and the beta roll out fully before you get your knickers in a twist.
Hehe awesome post. :P
@OP - Just thought I'd point out that SE have dropped several hints now that the info they've released on races is not all they have planned. It's quite likely that they're planning to announce something else closer to release to build the hype (specifically male miqo'te/female roegadyn).
I stopped myself from posting something negative towards the OP but you guys allready showed him the childishness in his post. I hope people like him stay away from XIV.
omgwtfbbq
Doesn't sound like we know enough about FFXIV to determine how they are going to design the gameplay, and inferring that it will be similar to FFXI isn't valid since the latter game was developed back in the early days of MMO's and design decisions were not influenced heavily towards the casual gamer.
Now IMO, it would be better if they did retain some of those early elements that the OP didn't like, such as downtime between fights, long travel times etc because as one poster noted, it is these mechancis that allow players to spend time socializing with each other.
Most modern MMO's are so busy catering to those who only care to "fight, fight, fight" they've completely forgotten the real purpose behind MMORPG's when they were started, to encourage players to socialize with each other.
I for one see this game as one of the few that might provide a more social experience than its counterparts today and I hope they decide to go with a more old-school feel.
Regarding long training times for a pet, 30 days is nothing. In EVE it takes about 40 days to train to fly a single Battlehip at peak proficiency, (level 5) and that doesn't include the 3-6 months it takes to train the rest of the skills (T2 guns, support skills). And that's just one ship for one race. I have characters that can fly 3 racial battleships at top proficiency and I've subbing for almost 3 years now.
Of course all of this is designed to keep you subscribing that's the entire purpose of the developers goals, to keep people paying.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
once again, stop thinking this is FFXI-2, the gameplay workings so far seem VASTLY diffrent. And as for the race thing, most MMOs in the same series do this (Everquest, Linage, and even starwars/guildwars will have many similar races. and SWTOR is a game made by a new dev.) so the reusing races thing has been done a bunch of times, most games just adding new ones at most.
Sure most MMOs have the same races, but they don't have the same drawbacks. More pretty visuals from an MMO and still nothing inovative. As a matter of fact they seem to be shelving the inovation of XI and making a Wow clone in FF land.
Lol I would love to hear your reasons for this being a WoW clone.
Lol I'd love to know how you came to the 'WoW-clone' conclusion... the game has an even more customisable job/class system than XI had, combat crafting classes, more developed combat coordination (range, positioning, skillchains, elemental affinity), etc... they've taken all the things that made XI great and taken them even further. In terms of MMOs I'd say the class system they're using is pretty damn 'innovative', even if they did take it from the FF Tactics games. The only thing that could possibly be interpreted as a move in WoW's direction is the introduction of a few casual-friendly elements like solo guild leves and given the MMO market these days I'd say every MMO has to at least make such a thing possible in some way.
So tell me... what gave you that idea?
As for the races, what drawbacks are you talking about? I've never really noticed 'drawbacks' to races in any MMO... they're mostly just an aesthetic thing. Anyway it's no wonder they're the same races; they're taking the same concepts they had for XI and reinventing them for XIV. It might not be a direct sequel but it's no different to the link between EQ1 and EQ2 really.
Didn't you know? Every MMO released since 2004 is a WoW clone!
People who spout off "Game X is nothing but a WoW clone" rarely if ever know what they're even talking about. I recently witnessed someone calling EQ2 a WoW clone... nevermind EQ2 was released before WoW. I find it best to just ignore their banter.
Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.
Square has this rule to make a new type of game every time they make a new game but they decide to make the same ugly races like the wanabe elves i hate those lol.
If I was a total nerd I would be soo pissed but I think this poster is right about the same type of game again it just dosent make sense I think they want just another game that people cycle through and now there theres alot more mmo players then before it should keep the game going with the cycles.
Also shame on them because they know the fans deserved a proper sequel to Fina Fantasy 7 but they make a squel type for a mmo instead ?
You may find the races ugly but I'd say you're in a minority. If people already like them then why change them? Like I've said before, SE are not trying to appeal to a new audience here, the game is so similar to XI because they are trying to appeal to their established fan base, both current and ex-FFXI players.
Btw your last comment unfortunately screams of the typical console FF fan anti-MMO attitude...