This wouldn't work for me. See I leveled in WoW the real way, On a pvp server. When we traveled to instances we fought the other faction. Sure I could travel the long way on my own but if noone else does it kind of defeats the purpose of living in a harsh faction torn world with danger around every corner.
Im sure you could understand where im coming from.
Like I said in the same thread above: it is a myth that the world is empty.
Too many things are needed in that world. Wow is much more than a tool. it is a living economy.
I was sick travelling and hunting down the Elders a month ago throughout Azeroth and the basic of the economy are - amongst others - the gathering professions.
So no problem in finding those places. Some are more populated than others. It depends mostly on the season and flair of the month in crafting goods.
Just like the real world: heavy populated main cities, a lot of activity in what is hot on the market and some dire places where only the "gold diggers" search for the old rare mines to make money.
Nothing changed, only the speed to group up for dungeon crawling was enhanced. All the rest is still there and hugely played (from solo quests to weekly Raiding etc).
Its certainly not a myth. The world is empty. Everyone is either leveling in BGs or Dungeons.
Very few people are seen in the game world outside cities and this has a negative affect on world pvp and my own personal enjoyment in a game.
Its certainly not a myth. The world is empty. Everyone is either leveling in BGs or Dungeons.
Very few people are seen in the game world outside cities and this has a negative affect on world pvp and my own personal enjoyment in a game.
Proof ?
Because when I type /who in all of Northrend at prime time I always see /49 as the max number when asking for all levels.
The gathering professions are basic and very much needed and the dungeons only pop up after 30 minutes for DPS.
Everyone plays solo content between a dungeon run.
Not to mention the seasonal content which sends you ALL over Azeroth till you are sick of traveling and searching.
What proof do you need? If everyone is using the dungeon finder to farm dungeons then noone is actually travelling to them so that means there's no pvp going on around them.
I mean seriously I bring up that dungeon areas are empty due to everyone being ported in and you bring up people gathering? is something wrong with you?
Oh and if you havent noticed Epic fliers + reduced gathering time to extract materials = no world pvp either.
Maybe you have no experience leveling on a pvp server? if not maybe you should play WoW the real way.
Originally posted by Rockgod99 What proof do you need?
How about that camp is actually playing the game right now and you have admittedly not played WoW in a long while.
So, what proof do you have? Guesses based on forum posts made by other people who havent played WoW in years? How about your faulty logic? Or maybe you're just making this all up in an attempt to troll WoW. I mean, why else would someone that doesnt like WoW and hasnt played WoW in a long while be posting so much on the WoW forums about things you have no direct experience with?
How about that camp is actually playing the game right now and you have admittedly not played WoW in a long while.
So, what proof do you have? Guesses based on forum posts made by other people who havent played WoW in years? How about your faulty logic? Or maybe you're just making this all up in an attempt to troll WoW.
I mean, why else would someone that doesnt like WoW and hasnt played WoW in a long while be posting so much on the WoW forums about things you have no direct experience with?
First of all no I dont "Post so much" on the wow forums.
Second I do have access to wow. Damn near my entire family plays the game From my son to my brother and my wife.
I actually liked my time in WoW, I still consider it the best Tp mmo on the market and continually bitch about Clones ruining the tp sub genre. Pointing out that the dungeon finder killed world pvp around dungeon areas on pvp servers is not flaming or trolling its the fucking truth.
How about that camp is actually playing the game right now and you have admittedly not played WoW in a long while.
So, what proof do you have? Guesses based on forum posts made by other people who havent played WoW in years? How about your faulty logic? Or maybe you're just making this all up in an attempt to troll WoW.
I mean, why else would someone that doesnt like WoW and hasnt played WoW in a long while be posting so much on the WoW forums about things you have no direct experience with?
First of all no I dont "Post so much" on the wow forums.
Second I do have access to wow. Damn near my entire family plays the game From my son to my brother and my wife.
I know you bleeding heart fanbois consider anyone that talks negatively about WoW to be a flaming troll but I actually liked my time in WoW, I still consider it the best Tp mmo on the market and continually bitch about Clones ruining the tp sub genre. Pointing out that thedungeon finder killed world pvp around dungeon areas on pvp servers is not flaming or trolling its the fucking truth.
You know the discussion is over when one side refers to the other as a fanboi or a troll. It means the discussion has run its course and one or both sides have run out of "mental" ammo.
Not really. The problem with Guild Wars, at least for me, was the the world felt empty. You'd quest and never see another player. That was because the world was instanced. WoW has instances, yes, but most of the game is played in the world where you can bump into other people (whether you want to or not).
Yeah, name one zone in the "World" that has NPCs who drop loot you'd actually wear.
That's what I thought
The World in "WoW" is only useful for navigating to instances.
An MMORPG where there is only one of a given zone, that would be really amazing to me.
If all you really care about in the game is getting the loot then you should consider that maybe MMORPGs are not the genre of games for you?
The LFD system specificly allows me to go out and do stuff in the world while being queued for a random dungeon. I definetly spent less time sitting in town now then I used to when finding a group required you to scan the trade chat in Dalaran.
Where did I say that?
The world in WoW is just dead, ok. Maybe I want an MMORPG where you actually have to share zones with other players? Maybe the fact that the World has nothing useful in it hurts the game.
What happened to World Content.. World Dragons, etc.? They're all gone. Because whiners didn't want to compete with other guilds for loot. Even on the PvP servers you can't compete with other guilds for loot, which killed the servers because no one has reason to PvP.
People use instances for everything anymore, it's bullshit. To people defending WoW and saying it is not like Guild Wars, how is it not like Guild Wars? When they instance their important zones and allow you to share a bunch of useless zones, how is that an MMORPG?
I want to share every zone with every player, otherwise it isn't an MMORPG.
The people who want instancing are in the wrong genre, go play Diablo 2 if you want that shit. I want persistent and shared worlds
Not really. The problem with Guild Wars, at least for me, was the the world felt empty. You'd quest and never see another player. That was because the world was instanced. WoW has instances, yes, but most of the game is played in the world where you can bump into other people (whether you want to or not).
Yeah, name one zone in the "World" that has NPCs who drop loot you'd actually wear.
That's what I thought
The World in "WoW" is only useful for navigating to instances.
An MMORPG where there is only one of a given zone, that would be really amazing to me.
If all you really care about in the game is getting the loot then you should consider that maybe MMORPGs are not the genre of games for you?
The LFD system specificly allows me to go out and do stuff in the world while being queued for a random dungeon. I definetly spent less time sitting in town now then I used to when finding a group required you to scan the trade chat in Dalaran.
Where did I say that?
The world in WoW is just dead, ok. Maybe I want an MMORPG where you actually have to share zones with other players? Maybe the fact that the World has nothing useful in it hurts the game.
What happened to World Content.. World Dragons, etc.? They're all gone. Because whiners didn't want to compete with other guilds for loot. Even on the PvP servers you can't compete with other guilds for loot, which killed the servers because no one has reason to PvP.
People use instances for everything anymore, it's bullshit. To people defending WoW and saying it is not like Guild Wars, how is it not like Guild Wars? When they instance their important zones and allow you to share a bunch of useless zones, how is that an MMORPG?
I want to share every zone with every player, otherwise it isn't an MMORPG.
The people who want instancing are in the wrong genre, go play Diablo 2 if you want that shit. I want persistent and shared worlds
First, just saying I have not played WoW for 6 months.
A friend and I actually decided we were going to kill all the world dragons just to say we had. For about 5 weeks we tried - never could get them because they were constantly dead. So someone must have been out there killing them. I guess though it was probably one or two people just like us - not big raids.
Gathering was constant - you know how much that low level crafting raw materials sold for - some of the lowest stuff sold for more on the AH than the newest Northrend stuff because most people could not be bothered going back and getting it. But as I was a double gatherer (god I love gathering) I was always mining and herbing in the old world. And you know what - rarely would a day go by that I would not run into other people doing the same and often have some damn fun pvp because of it.
Yes WoW has become increasingly about being in instances (either BGs, arenas or dungeons) but that does not mean the world is empty. The world is a much larger place these days, double the number of continents, and a large number of people are at max level (it would be interesting to find a stat showing how many players play at 80 rather than leveling up - this should not include alts).
The world is still there. It still has content and it still has players doing that content even after 6 years. It is just that a lot of people have outgrown the content - it is an old game after all.
Not really. The problem with Guild Wars, at least for me, was the the world felt empty. You'd quest and never see another player. That was because the world was instanced. WoW has instances, yes, but most of the game is played in the world where you can bump into other people (whether you want to or not).
Yeah, name one zone in the "World" that has NPCs who drop loot you'd actually wear.
That's what I thought
The World in "WoW" is only useful for navigating to instances.
An MMORPG where there is only one of a given zone, that would be really amazing to me.
If all you really care about in the game is getting the loot then you should consider that maybe MMORPGs are not the genre of games for you?
The LFD system specificly allows me to go out and do stuff in the world while being queued for a random dungeon. I definetly spent less time sitting in town now then I used to when finding a group required you to scan the trade chat in Dalaran.
Where did I say that?
The world in WoW is just dead, ok. Maybe I want an MMORPG where you actually have to share zones with other players? Maybe the fact that the World has nothing useful in it hurts the game.
What happened to World Content.. World Dragons, etc.? They're all gone. Because whiners didn't want to compete with other guilds for loot. Even on the PvP servers you can't compete with other guilds for loot, which killed the servers because no one has reason to PvP.
People use instances for everything anymore, it's bullshit. To people defending WoW and saying it is not like Guild Wars, how is it not like Guild Wars? When they instance their important zones and allow you to share a bunch of useless zones, how is that an MMORPG?
I want to share every zone with every player, otherwise it isn't an MMORPG.
The people who want instancing are in the wrong genre, go play Diablo 2 if you want that shit. I want persistent and shared worlds
First, just saying I have not played WoW for 6 months.
A friend and I actually decided we were going to kill all the world dragons just to say we had. For about 5 weeks we tried - never could get them because they were constantly dead. So someone must have been out there killing them. I guess though it was probably one or two people just like us - not big raids.
Gathering was constant - you know how much that low level crafting raw materials sold for - some of the lowest stuff sold for more on the AH than the newest Northrend stuff because most people could not be bothered going back and getting it. But as I was a double gatherer (god I love gathering) I was always mining and herbing in the old world. And you know what - rarely would a day go by that I would not run into other people doing the same and often have some damn fun pvp because of it.
Yes WoW has become increasingly about being in instances (either BGs, arenas or dungeons) but that does not mean the world is empty. The world is a much larger place these days, double the number of continents, and a large number of people are at max level (it would be interesting to find a stat showing how many players play at 80 rather than leveling up - this should not include alts).
The world is still there. It still has content and it still has players doing that content even after 6 years. It is just that a lot of people have outgrown the content - it is an old game after all.
World dragons used to take guilds to kill, and be difficult. They would be up for days sometimes because guilds weren't strong enough for most of them. Just because they made them soloable, thats the only reason they aren't up.. If their difficulty was increased to an appropriate level, they would be there.
The fact that they add world zones with no PvE content is just a bad idea. That only thins out existing world zones. Add onto that the fact they are putting instances with better loot in the game at all times, you just end up with empty zones in the end.
They should put NPCs in the world with loot on par with instances, otherwise what is the point of those world zones? Quests, and tradeskills? It's sad they reduced the world to that.
They are just a cheap company who wants to save bandwidth costs, so they like empty zones with few players so they only have to send them so much bandwidth. If everyone was in the same area, there is a lot of network communication going on. They cheapen their game for their own benefit, and they hand out gear to silence any opposition. Free gear through instancing, but it's only done to save Blizzard money. Sad
"You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time."
Also... I'm a stickler for quotes, and many from Alan Perlis can be applied to social aspects + computers, especially to MMORPG's.
Two that stands out... "Optimization hinders Evolution"
and
"Fools ignore complexity. Pragmatists suffer it. Some can avoid it. Geniuses remove it."
World dragons used to take guilds to kill, and be difficult. They would be up for days sometimes because guilds weren't strong enough for most of them. Just because they made them soloable, thats the only reason they aren't up.. If their difficulty was increased to an appropriate level, they would be there.
The fact that they add world zones with no PvE content is just a bad idea. That only thins out existing world zones. Add onto that the fact they are putting instances with better loot in the game at all times, you just end up with empty zones in the end.
They should put NPCs in the world with loot on par with instances, otherwise what is the point of those world zones? Quests, and tradeskills? It's sad they reduced the world to that.
They are just a cheap company who wants to save bandwidth costs, so they like empty zones with few players so they only have to send them so much bandwidth. If everyone was in the same area, there is a lot of network communication going on. They cheapen their game for their own benefit, and they hand out gear to silence any opposition. Free gear through instancing, but it's only done to save Blizzard money. Sad
I can only comment on things you write, not things you think you should type after someone answers one of your questions or statements.
Yes world dragons and easy to beat now, but people are still out there doing them. The whole point of this thread is that the world is empty, no content, and people never venture out into the world they are all hidden away in instances.
Even with the newest zones, those that you expect people at level cap (the vast majority of the population) to be in, are full of people doing daily quests (snore), achievements, gathering, gimpies looking for gank opportunities, questing, world pvp (surprising amount when winergrasp finishes). Now this has reduced somewhat with the LFD and the new emblem system but people are still out there doing it.
In classic WoW, once a lot of people were at level cap, the world dragons were very rarely up. I saw them up maybe 6 times with the poison dude up the most because he was one tough hombre. I saw two attempts get ruined by pvp - bloody fun being on either side really.
I will agree however that the amount of world content has diminished with each expansion. Why no more Silithus style zones - the twilight camps were always a great source of fun. Cataclysm seems to be reversing this trend but it won't be enough to get me back. What I won't agree with is that the world is a waste - there is a heap to do there if you want to. If, however, you refuse to leave the loot-roundabout then you have no one to blame but yourself.
I knew this day would come. People no longer complaining that all MMO's are wow clones. Now WoW is a clone of every other MMO out there!!!!!!!!
Here's a new and novel idea. How about we post contructive critisms about games and offer solutions or alternatives rather then just state obvious things like games in the same genre, *GASP!*, share some of the same features.
Haven't been to this site in over a year and only took me about 10 minutes to remember why its pointless to look at the forums here.
How about that camp is actually playing the game right now and you have admittedly not played WoW in a long while.
So, what proof do you have? Guesses based on forum posts made by other people who havent played WoW in years? How about your faulty logic? Or maybe you're just making this all up in an attempt to troll WoW.
I mean, why else would someone that doesnt like WoW and hasnt played WoW in a long while be posting so much on the WoW forums about things you have no direct experience with?
X, There simply is no use discussing with these guys.
WOW posters on mmorpgs are people who no longer play the game, see a new mechanism, find out a theory behind them and then post some theories... Kyleran is one of these, but I can cite 99 others.
WOW is being played on forums from some players who no longer play the game.
Which makes for some very funny stuff.
Let's see the newest trend is that more people play dungeons. Oh! I get it: so they are no longer playing Bg's and the world is empty. Laughs.
Until I type /who in Icecrown or Storm Peeks or Dragonblight in prime time and I get /49, maximum displayable players.
Yea right, looks good in theory , but ... in practice it doens't work that way.
You see WOW is still for 90% economics: be it gear enhancements, character enhancements, raid buffs, vanity items, and the ORGINS of the complete AH is mostly based on goods you need to hampster in ... the world. You have the monthly world events which sends you all over the lands etc...
See there's
...some real problems WOW has... never show up in these forums. You know the problems actual players of the game see now and complain about.
An example? The newest LFG tool for the BG's is wrongly designed. I never saw one single post about it over here. And it is a real problem Blizzard faces.
This is just proof of my theory: People post over here without knowing the present day to day play, so you see very broad and sweeping statements which are mostly laughable for active players.
General overall nonsense, ranging from the simple "sucks" or it became GW, or Brittney Spears or care bear and when you DO analyse and go into it you are being laughed at, because (of course) they have no game experience ... today.
In fact MORE than 50% of the active WOW population is not even 80....
Proof? Look at each server on warcraft realms. The total of leveling characters being played in the last month is bigger then the 80's block. While the stats are not even representative in overall data (too many servers too few sampling), the general trend shows that 50% of the characters are into leveling play.
So people post on mmorpg.com out of a habit without ANY present day game experience, be it in leveling (50%) or in the end game (50%), which indeed makes for some idiotic discussions and claims...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Seems like when they first came out everyone complained that GW wasn't and MMO because of the instancing/PVP instancing. The Towns were just hubs to get a grp togethere. Hasn't WOW taken this now to the same degree? GW was set n town and get grp go to dungeon or pvp area. WOW has become set in town and wait for grp to be teleported to the instance/BG. So does this mean that WOW can now be not considered and MMO because of the all the instancing?
In a nutshell....no....because in GW there is no other CHOICE. In WoW....you have options. You don't HAVE to participlate in the instance-queue-for-every-single-thing fad, but....most people do, and therefore, unless you have people you are playing the game with that have agreed NOT to constantly use the BG, instance, and raid daily/weekly queues...you'll PROBABLY end up having to use it if you want to do any of those things.
But I would argue the statement "WoW has become Guild Wars." No...it hasn't. But it has given you the OPTION to play in a Guild Wars-esque sort of way. I would say "yay Blizz"...if I really thought it was a good idea...but I don't. I think it's working its way toward eliminating server cohesion and the need for guilds altogether, but...I'm sure there are a few rabid fanbois that will come here and promptly disagree with me, even though I'm simply stating my opinion about it. Oh yeah....I should add....I'm no longer an "active" player of WoW since January of this year. So my opinion is based on information that is a couple of months OLD now...LOL.
How about that camp is actually playing the game right now and you have admittedly not played WoW in a long while.
So, what proof do you have? Guesses based on forum posts made by other people who havent played WoW in years? How about your faulty logic? Or maybe you're just making this all up in an attempt to troll WoW.
I mean, why else would someone that doesnt like WoW and hasnt played WoW in a long while be posting so much on the WoW forums about things you have no direct experience with?
For the same reason WoW players post in other game forums. Most gamers enjoy gaming as their hobby. They're not interested in ONLY one game (well, except for maybe the people that have never played any MMO other than ONE). So we actually post on the things that hit the FRONT PAGE of MMORPG.com in the "popular threads" section. We don't just go to ONE forum to post.
Furthermore...."hasn't played WoW in a long while" is a subjective view. What's a long time? A month ago? Two months ago? Since just the last patch? Yesterday? What? Define "long while."
Pretty much if you post anything that isn't 100 percent "pro-WoW" in a WoW forums thread....not only are you immediately discredited by the fanbois, but you're considered a "WoW hater." Honestly...that's complete and utter bullshit.
I post in the forums of any game I have played or any game I have an interest in, particularly if I see that a lively conversation is going on...that usually means I linked to it from the front page of MMORPG.com OR....the link comes to my email because I have expressed interest in the game itself in my user options here on the site. I don't HATE any game, much less WoW which I enjoyed for five full years. Okay...maybe I didn't really ENJOY the last year of it, but I kept playing with my family. I think five years of playing a game that is just now barely over five years old....gives me enough experience with what that game's journey has been in development over the years....to warrant me being "allowed" to comment.
But feel free to disagree. After all....we're ALL entitled to express our opinions here on MMORPG.com. It's what makes the site so....endearing.
Seems like when they first came out everyone complained that GW wasn't and MMO because of the instancing/PVP instancing. The Towns were just hubs to get a grp togethere. Hasn't WOW taken this now to the same degree? GW was set n town and get grp go to dungeon or pvp area. WOW has become set in town and wait for grp to be teleported to the instance/BG. So does this mean that WOW can now be not considered and MMO because of the all the instancing?
In a nutshell....no....because in GW there is no other CHOICE. In WoW....you have options. You don't HAVE to participlate in the instance-queue-for-every-single-thing fad, but....most people do, and therefore, unless you have people you are playing the game with that have agreed NOT to constantly use the BG, instance, and raid daily/weekly queues...you'll PROBABLY end up having to use it if you want to do any of those things.
But I would argue the statement "WoW has become Guild Wars." No...it hasn't. But it has given you the OPTION to play in a Guild Wars-esque sort of way. I would say "yay Blizz"...if I really thought it was a good idea...but I don't. I think it's working its way toward eliminating server cohesion and the need for guilds altogether, but...I'm sure there are a few rabid fanbois that will come here and promptly disagree with me, even though I'm simply stating my opinion about it. Oh yeah....I should add....I'm no longer an "active" player of WoW since January of this year. So my opinion is based on information that is a couple of months OLD now...LOL.
How do you you know the "but" part anyway.
I give you a fact to think about.
While warcraft realms doens't give a very accurate overview (too many servers and too few sampling players)...
On the average of all data - based on the last month played - you can see that the sum of leveling characters (10 - 79) is more than the sum of end leveling character. So you even discuss things with a 50% player base that's not even at top level...
You have no clue how they play the leveling game. only by BG's ? Not likely, Only by dungeons? Not likely. Only by solo play. It depends how long they wait , are in the mood and when they play ... and have the time ...
A combo of all? Yes all combined, for all players.
So your "but" is an evaluation ... and you don't even play anymore... You make assumptions by not playing : hurray !
You don't even know there is such a thing as a changing weekly Raid quest these days or a randomised BG generator.
So you leave the game and still want to discuss game mechanics that change every day. Like crafting changed - again - in the last 2 patches...
Good luck.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Furthermore...."hasn't played WoW in a long while" is a subjective view. What's a long time? A month ago? Two months ago? Since just the last patch? Yesterday? What? Define "long while."
In the context of thie thred 'hasn't played in along while' would refer to playing WoW since at least the addition of the LFD system and preferably for at least 2-3 months prior to the LFD system. If you haven't played WoW during that time period then statements like "players now just sit in Dalaran queuing up for instances" have no merit especially when players who are active in the game say that the opposite is happening.
Seems like when they first came out everyone complained that GW wasn't and MMO because of the instancing/PVP instancing. The Towns were just hubs to get a grp togethere. Hasn't WOW taken this now to the same degree? GW was set n town and get grp go to dungeon or pvp area. WOW has become set in town and wait for grp to be teleported to the instance/BG. So does this mean that WOW can now be not considered and MMO because of the all the instancing?
In a nutshell....no....because in GW there is no other CHOICE. In WoW....you have options. You don't HAVE to participlate in the instance-queue-for-every-single-thing fad, but....most people do, and therefore, unless you have people you are playing the game with that have agreed NOT to constantly use the BG, instance, and raid daily/weekly queues...you'll PROBABLY end up having to use it if you want to do any of those things.
But I would argue the statement "WoW has become Guild Wars." No...it hasn't. But it has given you the OPTION to play in a Guild Wars-esque sort of way. I would say "yay Blizz"...if I really thought it was a good idea...but I don't. I think it's working its way toward eliminating server cohesion and the need for guilds altogether, but...I'm sure there are a few rabid fanbois that will come here and promptly disagree with me, even though I'm simply stating my opinion about it. Oh yeah....I should add....I'm no longer an "active" player of WoW since January of this year. So my opinion is based on information that is a couple of months OLD now...LOL.
HAHAHAHA.....THAT but I highlighted....I was sure right on the money about THAT one.
How do you you know the "but" part anyway.
The "but" part is directly from MY experience of what happened within the guild I was in. It is an accurate statement of what I experienced, much like your statements reflect YOUR experience. You seem to have issues with the fact that other people don't experience things the same way you do....but this is OLD NEWS around these forums for most of us with you.
I give you a fact to think about.
While warcraft realms doens't give a very accurate overview (too many servers and too few sampling players)...
On the average of all data - based on the last month played - you can see that the sum of leveling characters (10 - 79) is more than the sum of end leveling character. So you even discuss things with a 50% player base that's not even at top level...
You have no clue how they play the leveling game. only by BG's ? Not likely, Only by dungeons? Not likely. Only by solo play. It depends how long they wait , are in the mood and when they play ... and have the time ...
I have a "clue" about what happened to MY old guild. YOU have no clue what happened outside of YOUR own experience. Pot...kettle...black.
A combo of all? Yes all combined, for all players.
So your "but" is an evaluation ... and you don't even play anymore... You make assumptions by not playing : hurray !
No assumptions....first hand knowledge. YOU assume a lot, however, about other people who post.
You don't even know there is such a thing as a changing weekly Raid quest these days or a randomised BG generator.
I see you had trouble READING my previous post...as usual.
So you leave the game and still want to discuss game mechanics that change every day. Like crafting changed - again - in the last 2 patches...
Good luck.
See below...good luck to YOU.
Again, omg how MANY times do I have to repeat myself... let me reitirate something you JUST don't seem to fucking be able to GRASP....
I was in a 350 man raid guild. I DID mention weekly raids, or can you just not READ? (see above post of mine, you even QUOTED where I said it)
Secondly...I just finally left the game in JANUARY OF THIS YEAR. The new LFG dungeon finder BULLSHIT was well underway and effectively destroying MY guild when I left. Now....YOU and your frantically typing keyboard are able, and constantly DO post opinions based on YOUR experience ALL THE FUCKING TIME and all over these boards, not just in the WoW forums, but O M F G....let anyone else do the same and you are all pissy about it and telling them they don't know anything.
Either zip it and let other people post THEIR educated opinions alongside yours or start reporting everyone who disagrees with you for trolling and let's see how far you get. You have NO MORE right to post than any other person on these boards. I have spent more in game hours in WoW than YOU have over the last five years and am every BIT as entitled to post my opinion as you are, regardless of whether you LIKE it or NOT.
And next time you come post YOUR views on other games that I am "actively playing"....you had better be prepared, if you're not still in this VERY MOMENT playing them, to get told that you're an idiot and know NOTHING and have no right to an opinion...after all....you CONSTANTLY tell everyone ELSE that.
Incidentally, I'm getting pretty damn tired of you trying to INTIMIDATE people into not posting. And to YOU....I say "good luck" with THAT.
Furthermore...."hasn't played WoW in a long while" is a subjective view. What's a long time? A month ago? Two months ago? Since just the last patch? Yesterday? What? Define "long while."
In the context of thie thred 'hasn't played in along while' would refer to playing WoW since at least the addition of the LFD system and preferably for at least 2-3 months prior to the LFD system. If you haven't played WoW during that time period then statements like "players now just sit in Dalaran queuing up for instances" have no merit especially when players who are active in the game say that the opposite is happening.
Good then I "qualify" by those "rules" to post my opinion (even though I was unaware that such "rules" existed and only had to be followed by people posting about WoW). And....I am not one of the people who has EVER stated that people are just "sitting around Dalaran." However....I should point out to you, and anyone else critical of others who MIGHT say that, that perhaps you don't play on the SAME SERVER they do and perhaps THEIR experience has been just as they stated.
I don't have the vaguest idea why it is some of you people don't seem to grasp that unless someone is in YOUR guild, on YOUR server, playing at the times of day YOU play, are the level YOU are, etc....that their experience and YOURS might DIFFER!!!!!!!!!
HOW HARD IS THAT TO GET?! Apparently....very very very hard.
You know....I said it in another thread and I'll repeat it word for word here, because as with MOST of these "my game is better than your game" arguments that EVERY thread that a certain person posts in BECOMES....this STILL applies:
The only thing this thread proves to ME, personally, is that there is probably an MMO out there for every type of player.
A lot of people like WoW-style. Some of them like WoW-style because it's the only MMO they've ever played, they're having fun, and they're not interested in exploring the rest of the genre. Others...choose various other games. Many things factor into why someone who has PLAYED multiple MMOs chooses one or two as their favorites and gives those particular games their money.
And lastly....no one else has the right to decide how any other person spends their gaming dollar. Period. Just because Player A loves Game X does not mean that I must, and vice versa.
Popularity proves nothing but popularity. And the fact that you may not like the designer flavor of the year in your clothes, or the developer flavor of the decade in your games, etc....doesn't mean you're WRONG and the masses are "right." It may simply mean that you are a different PERSON from Player A who likes Game X and that thankfully....Game Y exists for YOU. Player A can go play Game X until his ass falls off, for all I care. I'm just happy to have Game Y!! =D
And THAT....is quite simply....all there is to the "my game is better than your game" boxing match. Period.
Seems like when they first came out everyone complained that GW wasn't and MMO because of the instancing/PVP instancing. The Towns were just hubs to get a grp togethere. Hasn't WOW taken this now to the same degree? GW was set n town and get grp go to dungeon or pvp area. WOW has become set in town and wait for grp to be teleported to the instance/BG. So does this mean that WOW can now be not considered and MMO because of the all the instancing?
In a nutshell....no....because in GW there is no other CHOICE. In WoW....you have options. You don't HAVE to participlate in the instance-queue-for-every-single-thing fad, but....most people do, and therefore, unless you have people you are playing the game with that have agreed NOT to constantly use the BG, instance, and raid daily/weekly queues...you'll PROBABLY end up having to use it if you want to do any of those things.
But I would argue the statement "WoW has become Guild Wars." No...it hasn't. But it has given you the OPTION to play in a Guild Wars-esque sort of way. I would say "yay Blizz"...if I really thought it was a good idea...but I don't. I think it's working its way toward eliminating server cohesion and the need for guilds altogether, but...I'm sure there are a few rabid fanbois that will come here and promptly disagree with me, even though I'm simply stating my opinion about it. Oh yeah....I should add....I'm no longer an "active" player of WoW since January of this year. So my opinion is based on information that is a couple of months OLD now...LOL.
HAHAHAHA.....THAT but I highlighted....I was sure right on the money about THAT one.
How do you you know the "but" part anyway.
The "but" part is directly from MY experience of what happened within the guild I was in. It is an accurate statement of what I experienced, much like your statements reflect YOUR experience. You seem to have issues with the fact that other people don't experience things the same way you do....but this is OLD NEWS around these forums for most of us with you.
I give you a fact to think about.
While warcraft realms doens't give a very accurate overview (too many servers and too few sampling players)...
On the average of all data - based on the last month played - you can see that the sum of leveling characters (10 - 79) is more than the sum of end leveling character. So you even discuss things with a 50% player base that's not even at top level...
You have no clue how they play the leveling game. only by BG's ? Not likely, Only by dungeons? Not likely. Only by solo play. It depends how long they wait , are in the mood and when they play ... and have the time ...
I have a "clue" about what happened to MY old guild. YOU have no clue what happened outside of YOUR own experience. Pot...kettle...black.
A combo of all? Yes all combined, for all players.
So your "but" is an evaluation ... and you don't even play anymore... You make assumptions by not playing : hurray !
No assumptions....first hand knowledge. YOU assume a lot, however, about other people who post.
You don't even know there is such a thing as a changing weekly Raid quest these days or a randomised BG generator.
I see you had trouble READING my previous post...as usual.
So you leave the game and still want to discuss game mechanics that change every day. Like crafting changed - again - in the last 2 patches...
Good luck.
See below...good luck to YOU.
Again, omg how MANY times do I have to repeat myself... let me reitirate something you JUST don't seem to fucking be able to GRASP....
I was in a 350 man raid guild. I DID mention weekly raids, or can you just not READ? (see above post of mine, you even QUOTED where I said it)
Secondly...I just finally left the game in JANUARY OF THIS YEAR. The new LFG dungeon finder BULLSHIT was well underway and effectively destroying MY guild when I left. Now....YOU and your frantically typing keyboard are able, and constantly DO post opinions based on YOUR experience ALL THE FUCKING TIME and all over these boards, not just in the WoW forums, but O M F G....let anyone else do the same and you are all pissy about it and telling them they don't know anything.
Either zip it and let other people post THEIR educated opinions alongside yours or start reporting everyone who disagrees with you for trolling and let's see how far you get. You have NO MORE right to post than any other person on these boards. I have spent more in game hours in WoW than YOU have over the last five years and am every BIT as entitled to post my opinion as you are, regardless of whether you LIKE it or NOT.
And next time you come post YOUR views on other games that I am "actively playing"....you had better be prepared, if you're not still in this VERY MOMENT playing them, to get told that you're an idiot and know NOTHING and have no right to an opinion...after all....you CONSTANTLY tell everyone ELSE that.
Incidentally, I'm getting pretty damn tired of you trying to INTIMIDATE people into not posting. And to YOU....I say "good luck" with THAT.
Best thing to do about people like that is to ignore them.
They feel the need to attack anyone who mentions any opinion about their game out of some wierd devout calling, as though anything negative said on a forum might in some way lead to the fall of thier precious world. Best not to even acknowledge them.
As for the game becoming Guild Wars; It does feel like its heading that way with the LFG tool, but it all depends on the player and guild. While on vent with a few of my WoW guildies I sense a lot of annoyance over the LFG tool in that a lot of people are now playing more on alts and less on thier mains making it harder to get raids going within the guild. A few members have also apparently left to find guilds who are still more into raiding than they are alting in dungeons.
But even before the LFG tool the lower level areas were pretty devoid of players because most people just ran raids at the high end. Those who made alts would mostly get higher level guildmates to run them through each instance quickly.
But again, the LFG tool made getting dungeon groups easier and has had a slight negative impact on the outside zones, but I see that more along the lines of people just being tired of doing the same few zones over and over and over. Once Cata hits the world should liven up again for a while.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Camp, did it ever occur to you that many (if not most) of those players you see running around in the lowbie zones are probably the alts of people with multiple 80s, who are running through the old content one last time before Cata? I know at least 4 current WoW players (IRL) who are doing just that, some of them are running both Horde and Alliance alts so they get to experience the old content one last time.
They've all commented on how the LFD tool has made it so much easier to see ALL the content, at a level appropriate stage. They have also commented though on how guild cohesion is falling apart because people no longer need their guild to get groups together, for anything really. We can all assume that guild leveling in Cata will help mitigate that.
To be honest , I'd imagine anyone not running a nostalgia alt is probably sitting in Dal waiting for dungeons to pop for the majority of their playtime. You say that people don't have to do that, and you're right, but it is the path of least resistance, and if I was eye-bleedingly bored of farming mats, and running heroics over and over every day BEFORE they made it so easy to get groups, I can't imagine how players who have now been level 80 for well over a year are keeping themselves entertained. Many people I know just log in for raids now, if they're still subbed that is.
Camp, did it ever occur to you that many (if not most) of those players you see running around in the lowbie zones are probably the alts of people with multiple 80s, who are running through the old content one last time before Cata? I know at least 4 current WoW players (IRL) who are doing just that, some of them are running both Horde and Alliance alts so they get to experience the old content one last time.
They've all commented on how the LFD tool has made it so much easier to see ALL the content, at a level appropriate stage. They have also commented though on how guild cohesion is falling apart because people no longer need their guild to get groups together, for anything really. We can all assume that guild leveling in Cata will help mitigate that.
To be honest , I'd imagine anyone not running a nostalgia alt is probably sitting in Dal waiting for dungeons to pop for the majority of their playtime. You say that people don't have to do that, and you're right, but it is the path of least resistance, and if I was eye-bleedingly bored of farming mats, and running heroics over and over every day BEFORE they made it so easy to get groups, I can't imagine how players who have now been level 80 for well over a year are keeping themselves entertained. Many people I know just log in for raids now, if they're still subbed that is.
^This.
Everytime I talk to my old guildies on vent they are running a new alt through something. The rest are, like me, just in the channel talking to each other while playing different games or watching TV.
People tend to forget that even before the LFD tool people had multiple lvl 80s. When Wrath came out I had 4 lvl 70s ready to level to 80, and I hardly really played at that point as it was. Took me 6 days from the release of Wrath to hit 80 on my main. 4 days after that and my Shaman was lvl 80. By the end of the first month all 4 characters were 80.
Thing is, a lot of people were busy farming achievments and raid gear to even be bothered with leveling new alts. Wrath kept most if not all the lvl 80 players occupied with raid after raid after raid. This is why leveling in the old world started to feel lonely. And getting a group for dungeons below lvl 80 were almost impossible because, again, most of the playerbase was at lvl 80 and raiding a few nights a week. Most people, specially in my guild and a couple of friends guilds, only bothered to log on for raids.
The LFD tool was created to help alieviate this problem (and yes, it was a problem for a lot of new players more so than existing players). Problem is that people now use the LFD tool to level up even faster, which is leaving the lower zones pretty much as wasted server space. Sure, when Cata hits there may be more people running around the new(old) zones, but that wont last too long. Once the 'new' wears off people will be back to camping the LFD tool, leaving the new(old) zones a barren wasteland once again.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I still have a active WoW account, mainly for long time friends that still play and just out of nothing else to do, But I only log into WoW to Q to do some Battlegrounds and thats is, I don't Arena It's broke and I don't Raid because I feel that the gear from there is useless and is only for SHOW as It will not help you kill a dam thing in pvp.
So Yes you are right WoW has become GW, All I do is sit in Dala. use the random Q for Bg's in between Wintergrasp as I chat with old buddies in vent, WoW took away the feel of a MMO because of this instant Q and also took the meaning for raiding away from be because the gear is only for Show. I'm hoping that they change this in the ex-pac, I want to raid again and have my gear have some use outside of pve and same goes for pvp gear, I only play Mmo to pvp and even though WoW's pvp is all jacked up where cloth is really plate I still pay because I'm hoping for a change and It's hard to leave friends that you made over the years.
Not really. The problem with Guild Wars, at least for me, was the the world felt empty. You'd quest and never see another player. That was because the world was instanced. WoW has instances, yes, but most of the game is played in the world where you can bump into other people (whether you want to or not).
Really, run outside ot he towns in WOW and see how many people you see. Other than Org (duels going on)' Play for a day and tell me how many people you bump into in the BC zones or almost all the vanilla areas. You might not run into anyone in the WoTLK areas. Might see someone fly by but thats it. The game is a more dumbed down version of GW now.
I just leveled a mage. I had the hardest times in the BC area because of ally gankers... my level by the way... all over the place. It just depends on the server in which you dont see many people. I saw them everywhere.
Comments
Its certainly not a myth. The world is empty. Everyone is either leveling in BGs or Dungeons.
Very few people are seen in the game world outside cities and this has a negative affect on world pvp and my own personal enjoyment in a game.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Proof ?
Because when I type /who in all of Northrend at prime time I always see /49 as the max number when asking for all levels.
The gathering professions are basic and very much needed and the dungeons only pop up after 30 minutes for DPS.
Everyone plays solo content between a dungeon run.
Not to mention the seasonal content which sends you ALL over Azeroth till you are sick of traveling and searching.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
What proof do you need? If everyone is using the dungeon finder to farm dungeons then noone is actually travelling to them so that means there's no pvp going on around them.
I mean seriously I bring up that dungeon areas are empty due to everyone being ported in and you bring up people gathering? is something wrong with you?
Oh and if you havent noticed Epic fliers + reduced gathering time to extract materials = no world pvp either.
Maybe you have no experience leveling on a pvp server? if not maybe you should play WoW the real way.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
So, what proof do you have? Guesses based on forum posts made by other people who havent played WoW in years? How about your faulty logic? Or maybe you're just making this all up in an attempt to troll WoW.
I mean, why else would someone that doesnt like WoW and hasnt played WoW in a long while be posting so much on the WoW forums about things you have no direct experience with?
First of all no I dont "Post so much" on the wow forums.
Second I do have access to wow. Damn near my entire family plays the game From my son to my brother and my wife.
I actually liked my time in WoW, I still consider it the best Tp mmo on the market and continually bitch about Clones ruining the tp sub genre. Pointing out that the dungeon finder killed world pvp around dungeon areas on pvp servers is not flaming or trolling its the fucking truth.
[Mod edit]
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
You know the discussion is over when one side refers to the other as a fanboi or a troll. It means the discussion has run its course and one or both sides have run out of "mental" ammo.
Where did I say that?
The world in WoW is just dead, ok. Maybe I want an MMORPG where you actually have to share zones with other players? Maybe the fact that the World has nothing useful in it hurts the game.
What happened to World Content.. World Dragons, etc.? They're all gone. Because whiners didn't want to compete with other guilds for loot. Even on the PvP servers you can't compete with other guilds for loot, which killed the servers because no one has reason to PvP.
People use instances for everything anymore, it's bullshit. To people defending WoW and saying it is not like Guild Wars, how is it not like Guild Wars? When they instance their important zones and allow you to share a bunch of useless zones, how is that an MMORPG?
I want to share every zone with every player, otherwise it isn't an MMORPG.
The people who want instancing are in the wrong genre, go play Diablo 2 if you want that shit. I want persistent and shared worlds
First, just saying I have not played WoW for 6 months.
A friend and I actually decided we were going to kill all the world dragons just to say we had. For about 5 weeks we tried - never could get them because they were constantly dead. So someone must have been out there killing them. I guess though it was probably one or two people just like us - not big raids.
Gathering was constant - you know how much that low level crafting raw materials sold for - some of the lowest stuff sold for more on the AH than the newest Northrend stuff because most people could not be bothered going back and getting it. But as I was a double gatherer (god I love gathering) I was always mining and herbing in the old world. And you know what - rarely would a day go by that I would not run into other people doing the same and often have some damn fun pvp because of it.
Yes WoW has become increasingly about being in instances (either BGs, arenas or dungeons) but that does not mean the world is empty. The world is a much larger place these days, double the number of continents, and a large number of people are at max level (it would be interesting to find a stat showing how many players play at 80 rather than leveling up - this should not include alts).
The world is still there. It still has content and it still has players doing that content even after 6 years. It is just that a lot of people have outgrown the content - it is an old game after all.
World dragons used to take guilds to kill, and be difficult. They would be up for days sometimes because guilds weren't strong enough for most of them. Just because they made them soloable, thats the only reason they aren't up.. If their difficulty was increased to an appropriate level, they would be there.
The fact that they add world zones with no PvE content is just a bad idea. That only thins out existing world zones. Add onto that the fact they are putting instances with better loot in the game at all times, you just end up with empty zones in the end.
They should put NPCs in the world with loot on par with instances, otherwise what is the point of those world zones? Quests, and tradeskills? It's sad they reduced the world to that.
They are just a cheap company who wants to save bandwidth costs, so they like empty zones with few players so they only have to send them so much bandwidth. If everyone was in the same area, there is a lot of network communication going on. They cheapen their game for their own benefit, and they hand out gear to silence any opposition. Free gear through instancing, but it's only done to save Blizzard money. Sad
And what have we learned?
"You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time."
Also... I'm a stickler for quotes, and many from Alan Perlis can be applied to social aspects + computers, especially to MMORPG's.
Two that stands out... "Optimization hinders Evolution"
and
"Fools ignore complexity. Pragmatists suffer it. Some can avoid it. Geniuses remove it."
http://www.cs.yale.edu/quotes.html
Enjoy.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
I can only comment on things you write, not things you think you should type after someone answers one of your questions or statements.
Yes world dragons and easy to beat now, but people are still out there doing them. The whole point of this thread is that the world is empty, no content, and people never venture out into the world they are all hidden away in instances.
Even with the newest zones, those that you expect people at level cap (the vast majority of the population) to be in, are full of people doing daily quests (snore), achievements, gathering, gimpies looking for gank opportunities, questing, world pvp (surprising amount when winergrasp finishes). Now this has reduced somewhat with the LFD and the new emblem system but people are still out there doing it.
In classic WoW, once a lot of people were at level cap, the world dragons were very rarely up. I saw them up maybe 6 times with the poison dude up the most because he was one tough hombre. I saw two attempts get ruined by pvp - bloody fun being on either side really.
I will agree however that the amount of world content has diminished with each expansion. Why no more Silithus style zones - the twilight camps were always a great source of fun. Cataclysm seems to be reversing this trend but it won't be enough to get me back. What I won't agree with is that the world is a waste - there is a heap to do there if you want to. If, however, you refuse to leave the loot-roundabout then you have no one to blame but yourself.
OMG ITS ACTUALLY HAPPENED!
THEN END OF THE WORLD IS NEAR!
I knew this day would come. People no longer complaining that all MMO's are wow clones. Now WoW is a clone of every other MMO out there!!!!!!!!
Here's a new and novel idea. How about we post contructive critisms about games and offer solutions or alternatives rather then just state obvious things like games in the same genre, *GASP!*, share some of the same features.
Haven't been to this site in over a year and only took me about 10 minutes to remember why its pointless to look at the forums here.
X, There simply is no use discussing with these guys.
WOW posters on mmorpgs are people who no longer play the game, see a new mechanism, find out a theory behind them and then post some theories... Kyleran is one of these, but I can cite 99 others.
WOW is being played on forums from some players who no longer play the game.
Which makes for some very funny stuff.
Let's see the newest trend is that more people play dungeons. Oh! I get it: so they are no longer playing Bg's and the world is empty. Laughs.
Until I type /who in Icecrown or Storm Peeks or Dragonblight in prime time and I get /49, maximum displayable players.
Yea right, looks good in theory , but ... in practice it doens't work that way.
You see WOW is still for 90% economics: be it gear enhancements, character enhancements, raid buffs, vanity items, and the ORGINS of the complete AH is mostly based on goods you need to hampster in ... the world. You have the monthly world events which sends you all over the lands etc...
See there's
...some real problems WOW has... never show up in these forums. You know the problems actual players of the game see now and complain about.
An example? The newest LFG tool for the BG's is wrongly designed. I never saw one single post about it over here. And it is a real problem Blizzard faces.
This is just proof of my theory: People post over here without knowing the present day to day play, so you see very broad and sweeping statements which are mostly laughable for active players.
General overall nonsense, ranging from the simple "sucks" or it became GW, or Brittney Spears or care bear and when you DO analyse and go into it you are being laughed at, because (of course) they have no game experience ... today.
In fact MORE than 50% of the active WOW population is not even 80....
Proof? Look at each server on warcraft realms. The total of leveling characters being played in the last month is bigger then the 80's block. While the stats are not even representative in overall data (too many servers too few sampling), the general trend shows that 50% of the characters are into leveling play.
So people post on mmorpg.com out of a habit without ANY present day game experience, be it in leveling (50%) or in the end game (50%), which indeed makes for some idiotic discussions and claims...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
In a nutshell....no....because in GW there is no other CHOICE. In WoW....you have options. You don't HAVE to participlate in the instance-queue-for-every-single-thing fad, but....most people do, and therefore, unless you have people you are playing the game with that have agreed NOT to constantly use the BG, instance, and raid daily/weekly queues...you'll PROBABLY end up having to use it if you want to do any of those things.
But I would argue the statement "WoW has become Guild Wars." No...it hasn't. But it has given you the OPTION to play in a Guild Wars-esque sort of way. I would say "yay Blizz"...if I really thought it was a good idea...but I don't. I think it's working its way toward eliminating server cohesion and the need for guilds altogether, but...I'm sure there are a few rabid fanbois that will come here and promptly disagree with me, even though I'm simply stating my opinion about it.
Oh yeah....I should add....I'm no longer an "active" player of WoW since January of this year. So my opinion is based on information that is a couple of months OLD now...LOL.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
For the same reason WoW players post in other game forums. Most gamers enjoy gaming as their hobby. They're not interested in ONLY one game (well, except for maybe the people that have never played any MMO other than ONE). So we actually post on the things that hit the FRONT PAGE of MMORPG.com in the "popular threads" section. We don't just go to ONE forum to post.
Furthermore...."hasn't played WoW in a long while" is a subjective view. What's a long time? A month ago? Two months ago? Since just the last patch? Yesterday? What? Define "long while."
Pretty much if you post anything that isn't 100 percent "pro-WoW" in a WoW forums thread....not only are you immediately discredited by the fanbois, but you're considered a "WoW hater." Honestly...that's complete and utter bullshit.
I post in the forums of any game I have played or any game I have an interest in, particularly if I see that a lively conversation is going on...that usually means I linked to it from the front page of MMORPG.com OR....the link comes to my email because I have expressed interest in the game itself in my user options here on the site. I don't HATE any game, much less WoW which I enjoyed for five full years. Okay...maybe I didn't really ENJOY the last year of it, but I kept playing with my family. I think five years of playing a game that is just now barely over five years old....gives me enough experience with what that game's journey has been in development over the years....to warrant me being "allowed" to comment.
But feel free to disagree.
After all....we're ALL entitled to express our opinions here on MMORPG.com. It's what makes the site so....endearing.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
How do you you know the "but" part anyway.
I give you a fact to think about.
While warcraft realms doens't give a very accurate overview (too many servers and too few sampling players)...
On the average of all data - based on the last month played - you can see that the sum of leveling characters (10 - 79) is more than the sum of end leveling character. So you even discuss things with a 50% player base that's not even at top level...
You have no clue how they play the leveling game. only by BG's ? Not likely, Only by dungeons? Not likely. Only by solo play. It depends how long they wait , are in the mood and when they play ... and have the time ...
A combo of all? Yes all combined, for all players.
So your "but" is an evaluation ... and you don't even play anymore... You make assumptions by not playing : hurray !
You don't even know there is such a thing as a changing weekly Raid quest these days or a randomised BG generator.
So you leave the game and still want to discuss game mechanics that change every day. Like crafting changed - again - in the last 2 patches...
Good luck.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
In the context of thie thred 'hasn't played in along while' would refer to playing WoW since at least the addition of the LFD system and preferably for at least 2-3 months prior to the LFD system. If you haven't played WoW during that time period then statements like "players now just sit in Dalaran queuing up for instances" have no merit especially when players who are active in the game say that the opposite is happening.
Again, omg how MANY times do I have to repeat myself... let me reitirate something you JUST don't seem to fucking be able to GRASP....
I was in a 350 man raid guild. I DID mention weekly raids, or can you just not READ? (see above post of mine, you even QUOTED where I said it)
Secondly...I just finally left the game in JANUARY OF THIS YEAR. The new LFG dungeon finder BULLSHIT was well underway and effectively destroying MY guild when I left. Now....YOU and your frantically typing keyboard are able, and constantly DO post opinions based on YOUR experience ALL THE FUCKING TIME and all over these boards, not just in the WoW forums, but O M F G....let anyone else do the same and you are all pissy about it and telling them they don't know anything.
Either zip it and let other people post THEIR educated opinions alongside yours or start reporting everyone who disagrees with you for trolling and let's see how far you get. You have NO MORE right to post than any other person on these boards. I have spent more in game hours in WoW than YOU have over the last five years and am every BIT as entitled to post my opinion as you are, regardless of whether you LIKE it or NOT.
And next time you come post YOUR views on other games that I am "actively playing"....you had better be prepared, if you're not still in this VERY MOMENT playing them, to get told that you're an idiot and know NOTHING and have no right to an opinion...after all....you CONSTANTLY tell everyone ELSE that.
Incidentally, I'm getting pretty damn tired of you trying to INTIMIDATE people into not posting. And to YOU....I say "good luck" with THAT.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Good then I "qualify" by those "rules" to post my opinion (even though I was unaware that such "rules" existed and only had to be followed by people posting about WoW). And....I am not one of the people who has EVER stated that people are just "sitting around Dalaran." However....I should point out to you, and anyone else critical of others who MIGHT say that, that perhaps you don't play on the SAME SERVER they do and perhaps THEIR experience has been just as they stated.
I don't have the vaguest idea why it is some of you people don't seem to grasp that unless someone is in YOUR guild, on YOUR server, playing at the times of day YOU play, are the level YOU are, etc....that their experience and YOURS might DIFFER!!!!!!!!!
HOW HARD IS THAT TO GET?! Apparently....very very very hard.
You know....I said it in another thread and I'll repeat it word for word here, because as with MOST of these "my game is better than your game" arguments that EVERY thread that a certain person posts in BECOMES....this STILL applies:
The only thing this thread proves to ME, personally, is that there is probably an MMO out there for every type of player.
A lot of people like WoW-style. Some of them like WoW-style because it's the only MMO they've ever played, they're having fun, and they're not interested in exploring the rest of the genre. Others...choose various other games. Many things factor into why someone who has PLAYED multiple MMOs chooses one or two as their favorites and gives those particular games their money.
And lastly....no one else has the right to decide how any other person spends their gaming dollar. Period. Just because Player A loves Game X does not mean that I must, and vice versa.
Popularity proves nothing but popularity. And the fact that you may not like the designer flavor of the year in your clothes, or the developer flavor of the decade in your games, etc....doesn't mean you're WRONG and the masses are "right." It may simply mean that you are a different PERSON from Player A who likes Game X and that thankfully....Game Y exists for YOU. Player A can go play Game X until his ass falls off, for all I care. I'm just happy to have Game Y!! =D
And THAT....is quite simply....all there is to the "my game is better than your game" boxing match. Period.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Best thing to do about people like that is to ignore them.
They feel the need to attack anyone who mentions any opinion about their game out of some wierd devout calling, as though anything negative said on a forum might in some way lead to the fall of thier precious world. Best not to even acknowledge them.
As for the game becoming Guild Wars; It does feel like its heading that way with the LFG tool, but it all depends on the player and guild. While on vent with a few of my WoW guildies I sense a lot of annoyance over the LFG tool in that a lot of people are now playing more on alts and less on thier mains making it harder to get raids going within the guild. A few members have also apparently left to find guilds who are still more into raiding than they are alting in dungeons.
But even before the LFG tool the lower level areas were pretty devoid of players because most people just ran raids at the high end. Those who made alts would mostly get higher level guildmates to run them through each instance quickly.
But again, the LFG tool made getting dungeon groups easier and has had a slight negative impact on the outside zones, but I see that more along the lines of people just being tired of doing the same few zones over and over and over. Once Cata hits the world should liven up again for a while.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Camp, did it ever occur to you that many (if not most) of those players you see running around in the lowbie zones are probably the alts of people with multiple 80s, who are running through the old content one last time before Cata? I know at least 4 current WoW players (IRL) who are doing just that, some of them are running both Horde and Alliance alts so they get to experience the old content one last time.
They've all commented on how the LFD tool has made it so much easier to see ALL the content, at a level appropriate stage. They have also commented though on how guild cohesion is falling apart because people no longer need their guild to get groups together, for anything really. We can all assume that guild leveling in Cata will help mitigate that.
To be honest , I'd imagine anyone not running a nostalgia alt is probably sitting in Dal waiting for dungeons to pop for the majority of their playtime. You say that people don't have to do that, and you're right, but it is the path of least resistance, and if I was eye-bleedingly bored of farming mats, and running heroics over and over every day BEFORE they made it so easy to get groups, I can't imagine how players who have now been level 80 for well over a year are keeping themselves entertained. Many people I know just log in for raids now, if they're still subbed that is.
^This.
Everytime I talk to my old guildies on vent they are running a new alt through something. The rest are, like me, just in the channel talking to each other while playing different games or watching TV.
People tend to forget that even before the LFD tool people had multiple lvl 80s. When Wrath came out I had 4 lvl 70s ready to level to 80, and I hardly really played at that point as it was. Took me 6 days from the release of Wrath to hit 80 on my main. 4 days after that and my Shaman was lvl 80. By the end of the first month all 4 characters were 80.
Thing is, a lot of people were busy farming achievments and raid gear to even be bothered with leveling new alts. Wrath kept most if not all the lvl 80 players occupied with raid after raid after raid. This is why leveling in the old world started to feel lonely. And getting a group for dungeons below lvl 80 were almost impossible because, again, most of the playerbase was at lvl 80 and raiding a few nights a week. Most people, specially in my guild and a couple of friends guilds, only bothered to log on for raids.
The LFD tool was created to help alieviate this problem (and yes, it was a problem for a lot of new players more so than existing players). Problem is that people now use the LFD tool to level up even faster, which is leaving the lower zones pretty much as wasted server space. Sure, when Cata hits there may be more people running around the new(old) zones, but that wont last too long. Once the 'new' wears off people will be back to camping the LFD tool, leaving the new(old) zones a barren wasteland once again.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I still have a active WoW account, mainly for long time friends that still play and just out of nothing else to do, But I only log into WoW to Q to do some Battlegrounds and thats is, I don't Arena It's broke and I don't Raid because I feel that the gear from there is useless and is only for SHOW as It will not help you kill a dam thing in pvp.
So Yes you are right WoW has become GW, All I do is sit in Dala. use the random Q for Bg's in between Wintergrasp as I chat with old buddies in vent, WoW took away the feel of a MMO because of this instant Q and also took the meaning for raiding away from be because the gear is only for Show. I'm hoping that they change this in the ex-pac, I want to raid again and have my gear have some use outside of pve and same goes for pvp gear, I only play Mmo to pvp and even though WoW's pvp is all jacked up where cloth is really plate I still pay because I'm hoping for a change and It's hard to leave friends that you made over the years.
I just leveled a mage. I had the hardest times in the BC area because of ally gankers... my level by the way... all over the place. It just depends on the server in which you dont see many people. I saw them everywhere.
As a huge fan of GW I take offense to that... It's so much better than WoW in my opinion.
Although I do understand what you were saying. I don't play either game since they both have become too outdated for my liking.