Seems like when they first came out everyone complained that GW wasn't and MMO because of the instancing/PVP instancing. The Towns were just hubs to get a grp togethere. Hasn't WOW taken this now to the same degree? GW was set n town and get grp go to dungeon or pvp area. WOW has become set in town and wait for grp to be teleported to the instance/BG. So does this mean that WOW can now be not considered and MMO because of the all the instancing?
Fast and easy is how the new generation of MMO players like their games and the developers are listening. Next thing you know you'll start getting raid gear for just logging in.
From a bigger perspective on things, the mysterious popularity enjoyed by non-fun-focused games is the abberation. It's normal for people to like fun-focused games. You just have to step back and get a bigger perspective on things.
Arguably, WOW, with its LFG Spam Tool and welfare epics, isn't fun anymore. You have to have "some" challenge to appreciate a game. WOW has lost its sense of challenge.
Look, you wouldn't enjoy football if you walked onto the field and the ref announced that both teams would score a win with 100 points awarded, regardless of how the plays panned out or how many touchdowns were scored.
WOW was a great game, but just sucks, SUCKS, in its current state.
I do have hopes for FF XIV, however, and have my fingers crossed that something will come of Everquest Next.
To each their own. I quit WoW because I could not keep up with the token grind with my amount of play time. Grab a couple pieces. Here comes new token gear. Get a couple pieces... Pick up group tards kept things interesting for me.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
I knew this day would come. People no longer complaining that all MMO's are wow clones. Now WoW is a clone of every other MMO out there!!!!!!!!
Here's a new and novel idea. How about we post contructive critisms about games and offer solutions or alternatives rather then just state obvious things like games in the same genre, *GASP!*, share some of the same features.
Haven't been to this site in over a year and only took me about 10 minutes to remember why its pointless to look at the forums here.
So WoW went from EQ lite to Guild Wars Lite and you're suprised?
ALERT! This is my once every three months POSITIVE OUTLOOK POST. Do not read it if you can't stand the thought of someone trying to be optimistic in these "dark days" of MMOs! =D
In defense of WoW...I still don't think WoW has "become" Guild Wars (and I think I saw a few GW players rightfully upset with that comparison too).
Honestly, you know...we've all seen every MMO we've ever played EVOLVE. Some of them evolved in ways we liked....others did not. Some of them started out in a way we didn't like (I'm looking at you, Vanguard) and then became something much better...in some cases too late to save themselves...OR in the case of say AoC...were able to pull themselves up, at least to a degree, by their proverbial bootstraps and become populated decent games (from what I understand on the AoC thing...I only played it for a few days because I just couldn't run it at the time on graphic settings that made me happy).
So the moral of the story is (at least in my opinion)....games change. If they didn't change at ALL (unless they were spot on PERFECT to us from the get go) then they would shrivel up and die slow painful deaths. They would stagnate.
I think with any business you have to kind of "go with the flow." If you start attracting a WHOLE LOT of customers from a segment of the market you didn't at first (maybe) even intend, and it would financially impact you in a negative way to ignore that large group....then, as a business owner, you'd probably better see what you can do to accomodate that new influx of customers. I think WoW did that. Sadly....it negatively impacted the game from the viewpoint of some of the REST of the player base, but I do think....we're probably a minority in comparison or a company with the experience that Blizzard has behind them...wouldn't have changed things to make those accomodations. I'm QUITE sure that they have market researchers they pay a FORTUNE to help make these decisions.
So what is our recourse? We move on to other games. We may feel a ping of sadness about leaving WoW (or insert ANY other game's name there), but in the long run we realize that we enjoyed the time there, and now...it's time to enjoy something ELSE, or in some cases....to lay down gaming for a while all together.
Not only do games change....we all change as players too. I think sometimes we forget that. Five years. A lot can happen in your life in FIVE years. In the past five years we moved across town, changed jobs, our kids all graduated from high school, our daughter got married, started working for the police department AND started college, our youngest son got his first job, had heart surgery and later went on to start college, and our middle son has been engaged to be married, gone through a terrible (really really) break up, freaked out over that girl and got himself in some trouble, joined the military, my grandmother passed away, my father had major surgery, my mother was diagnosed with diabetes....etc. etc....I could list a much LONGER list. THAT is a LOT of changes! Our circumstances and our family circumstances CHANGE over the course of years.
So with the games changing....and the players' lives changing as well....is it really surprising when we find it's time to move on to something different? Does it necessarily mean the game went sour? Maybe it just means the developers are following the larger part of the market they ENDED UP drawing to them and maybe we could see that as an OPPORTUNITY to go enjoy something that's new and refreshing to us (if we can find it). And if we can't find that right game right NOW....we COULD just choose to be hopeful for games coming in the future. I know....sometimes that looks like a dim hope, but hey...some hope is better than NONE, isn't it?
Originally posted by girlgeek Pretty much if you post anything that isn't 100 percent "pro-WoW" in a WoW forums thread....not only are you immediately discredited by the fanbois, but you're considered a "WoW hater." Honestly...that's complete and utter bullshit.
What about the people that come to the WoW boards that only post negative comments?
Is it complete and utter bullshit to counter those that constantly attack and goad the WoW community?
Is it complete and utter bullshit to defend the game you like?
How about I go to the board of the game you like and make insane troll comments about it and see if you think its complete and utter bullshit when I berate you for defending it.
Pretty much if you post anything that isn't 100 percent "pro-WoW" in a WoW forums thread....not only are you immediately discredited by the fanbois, but you're considered a "WoW hater." Honestly...that's complete and utter bullshit.
What about the people that come to the WoW boards that only post negative comments?
Is it complete and utter bullshit to counter those that constantly attack and goad the WoW community?
Is it complete and utter bullshit to defend the game you like?
How about I go to the board of the game you like and make insane troll comments about it and see if you think its complete and utter bullshit when I berate you for defending it.
First of all...I didn't start this thread. I responded to it because it hit the front page of the site. Secondly, you would be hard pressed to find me posting ONLY negative comments about WoW since I played it for five years and have repeatedly said I enjoyed it during most of the time I played it.
Part of the problem with SOME of the WoW players on these boards is that you take people having a different opinion about your favorite GAME as a personal "attack" and "goading" of the "WoW community." (By the way...I'm not saying some of that doesn't go on here. I think present WoW players put up with PLENTY of crap, but...so do the rest of us, to be fair.) And while I'm not sure that GAMES are in need of "defending," I can certainly understand feeling a sense of loyalty to a game similar to what people feel for a favorite singer, restaurant, movie, etc. So no...I don't think it's complete and utter bullshit to want to reply or to be irritated when people say things you consider unfair. However...all human beings HAVE opinions. And we're just not always going to agree on things.
You are more than welcome to come to any game's forum for any game I play and say WHATEVER you wish. That's what this site is....hobbyist gamers sharing ideas and expressing their very very diverse opinions. I don't think I, personally, have made any "insane troll comments," but if you think I have, I would like for you to point them out to me so that if I need to apologize I can. However, if you consider just having a different viewpoint from yours as being a "troll," well then....I'll have to disagree with you on your definition of "troll."
What IS "complete and utter bullshit" is precisely what I said (in my opinion):
"....if you post anything that isn't 100 percent "pro-WoW" in a WoW forums thread....not only are you immediately discredited by the fanbois, but you're considered a "WoW hater."
To be considered a "WoW hater" for not saying 100 percent GLORIOUS things about WoW....is complete and utter bullshit. Not liking certain things about a game...ANY game...doesn't make you a HATER of the game. That's just ridiculous. I mean FFS...there are things I don't think are 100 percent great about games I DO presently play and I certainly don't "hate" them.
IMHO both WOW and GW are two of the best multiplayer RPGs on the market in terms of polish, stability, balance, and challenging instances. WOW has the clear advantage in terms of non-instance content and crafting, while arguably GW has better PVP. So calling WOW the new GW or vice versa is actually a complement. It's not like anyone's accusing WOW of becoming STO.
I honestly don't see the problems with instances. Dungeon and raid instances force you to work together with a team, and isn't that one of the reasons to play MMOGs?
Seems like when they first came out everyone complained that GW wasn't and MMO because of the instancing/PVP instancing. The Towns were just hubs to get a grp togethere. Hasn't WOW taken this now to the same degree? GW was set n town and get grp go to dungeon or pvp area. WOW has become set in town and wait for grp to be teleported to the instance/BG. So does this mean that WOW can now be not considered and MMO because of the all the instancing?
Guildwars is actually getting harder all the time as you play so no. Wow is getting hard when you start to endgame raid.
But you do have a point. The reason is that it is cheaper to use instancing and easier to program. It will use less of the computer while still looking good. The reason Arenanet did like they did is because they had very little moneywhen they made GW.
It is actually bad, if we are unlucky will all MMOs be like this in the future, it is cheaper and easier for the devs. But open instances with a real meaning adds a lot to the game and at least a few public dungeons adds a lot also.
Funny enough is Guildwars moving the other way now, GW2 will have a persistent world with dynamic quests in. There can your actions actually influence the whole server.
I don't mind if the open up an instance when 100 people or so are in it, that stops overcrowding but to instance all hard parts of the game just isn't fun. Hopefully will Blizzard themselves realize this for Cataclysm and make the open zones interesting again.
Seems like when they first came out everyone complained that GW wasn't and MMO because of the instancing/PVP instancing. The Towns were just hubs to get a grp togethere. Hasn't WOW taken this now to the same degree? GW was set n town and get grp go to dungeon or pvp area. WOW has become set in town and wait for grp to be teleported to the instance/BG. So does this mean that WOW can now be not considered and MMO because of the all the instancing?
Umm GW was run by former WOW employees,so it is a pretty easy to assume they utilize the same formality.Same as that other developer who made their so called NEW game,yet it looks exactly like Diablo.Tera accused of stealing it's former employees ideas.Heck we can even go back to Wow and it's developers were former EQ players stealing ideas from that game lol.
Although WOW is predominantly played as an instanced game,there is still a lot of game world that is not instanced.It is just that they tied the game world to the boring quests and the REAL loot that players want is all in the instances,so ya Wow has driven itself to be an instance game.Then it is comical to see it outdo itself by allowing too many in an instance and it crashes the server lol or lag is just unplayable.
In the words of GSP
I am not impressed with your strategy Blizzard.
I treat my game plan like a mathematical equation,i try to implement the way that i see is the best strategy for myself.
You see if i go outside of the strategy and remove the instance,then the risk is much high.er for my self,but i am sorry to my fans,i try to implement but i made a couple of mistakes,i will go over it with my mentor ..Sqaure Enix and next time i will do much better
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
wow has become less rpg and more mmo. less roaming more socializing. Its more fun to me with the dungeon finder but it weakens the concept of an open world.
What about the people that come to the WoW boards that only post negative comments?Is it complete and utter bullshit to counter those that constantly attack and goad the WoW community?
Is it complete and utter bullshit to defend the game you like?
How about I go to the board of the game you like and make insane troll comments about it and see if you think its complete and utter bullshit when I berate you for defending it.
First and foremost, MMORPG.com is a site for discussing MMOs and not a fan site for one particular title. Both positive and negative comments are welcome within the context of the ROC. I'd hope members debate the points, rather than allowing personal attacks to abscond away with a good discussion.
That said, as a moderator who frequents this forum, I'm not unsympathetic towards your comments Xiaoki. Please use the Report tool when you think appropriate.
To the topic, functionally for some (or most, I've no idea really) WoW may relate more to GW. However, I still find personally I've more options in WoW. Currently I'm leveling a rogue and while I do run instances, mostly I'm questing about the realm with friends or folks I meet. Not that instances aren't fun, but my favorite activity (and one from the early days) is seeing how long I can last ganking in the major cities; hence the rogue.
The focus of WoW is now very much on instanced play . This above anything else led me to finally quit . I deleted characters that I had played for 5 years so I would'nt be tempted back . That in itself really means nothing anymore given I would easily be able to level a new one from 1-80 within weeks now if i wanted to and provide it with weffare epics . I think its a very fare statement WoW is essentialy guild wars now in that your unlikly to find many players outside of the city areas anymore . The thing I've noticed is theres a lot of anger pointed at Blizzard but none of this happened before Activsion became involved . I still have friends that love WoW but they are players that always souly enjoyed dungeons/raiding . I can understand its attraction to new players and those that are in the focus groups its designed to appeal to. Just wish it had turned out a different way and really hope that decent mmos in future dont end up going down the same path .
No you're wrong, no matter how many posts you try to post and get the last word.
GW's does NOT have an open seamless world to adventure in (with not even a loading screeen in sight).
GW does NOT have this seamless open world to fight, craft and adventure in.
Period.
Cross server content is simply what makes WOW great to play in whatever mood you're in.
The adventure boy (like the mod said) or the dungeon crawler, or the world gatherer, or the world explorer, or the BG dweller, or the world PvP in Wintergrasp with 240 people fighting.
You choose. You don't have that choice in GW. Big difference.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
the high end raiding/dungeons have become elitist imo, it does seem as though if you dont have the right gear, then your not good enough, if you want to join in you have to have the latest emblem gear etc, i think its at this stage of the game that things actually get boring, imo, you have more fun before you get to level 80 - i've already retired 2 char's for just that reason, i can't be bothered to do instances all day just to grind 50 frost emblems or whatever, high end gaming in WoW does seem to be mostly geared towards running instances, until then though, its a mix of 'world content' and 'instanced dungeons' and imo its the level 15-70 range thats the most fun in WoW....
I agree with all of this. It's not so much about skill anymore its more about do I have the time to do this to get what I need. More like a test of endurance.
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me." Paul Atreides
No you're wrong, no matter how many posts you try to post and get the last word.
GW's does NOT have an open seamless world to adventure in (with not even a loading screeen in sight).
GW does NOT have this seamless open world to fight, craft and adventure in.
Period.
Cross server content is simply what makes WOW great to play in whatever mood you're in.
The adventure boy (like the mod said) or the dungeon crawler, or the world gatherer, or the world explorer, or the BG dweller, or the world PvP in Wintergrasp with 240 people fighting.
You choose. You don't have that choice in GW. Big difference.
You might have the choice but no one chooses that path.
While saying WoW is now like Guild Wars is an exaggeration you cannot deny that WoW has moved in that direction. You dont need to travel to a 5 man dungeon which are instanced anyway. You dont even need to speak to a battlemaster to queue for a battleground. Dont forget when battlegrounds first came out in 1.5 you had to travel to Alterac mountains or Ashenvale and queue outside the entrance to the bg's.
Hearthstones are now 30 mins, Shamans astrall recall is 15 mins.
From Dalaran and Shattrath you have portals to major cities.
Meeting stones now act as summoning stones. In classic they didnt.
You can get all defensive and upset that someone dares criticise your beloved WoW but it doesnt make the point of this thread any less pertinent. That is WoW has moved away from being an MMORPG in the traditional sense.
Originally posted by flimmy You can get all defensive and upset that someone dares criticise your beloved WoW but it doesnt make the point of this thread any less pertinent. That is WoW has moved away from being an MMORPG in the traditional sense.
Traditional sense? What do you mean by "traditional" sense?
Being able to teleport here and there doesnt make WoW any less of an MMORPG than the old WoW or EQ1.
Other than a persistant online world and progressive characters what are the SET IN STONE RULES for being an MMORPG? Also, did you decide these rules? Are you the one that decides whats an MMORPG and what is not?
Comments
Agreed.
People are welcome to have opinions, but debate those rather than resorting to personal attacks.
To each their own. I quit WoW because I could not keep up with the token grind with my amount of play time. Grab a couple pieces. Here comes new token gear. Get a couple pieces... Pick up group tards kept things interesting for me.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
So WoW went from EQ lite to Guild Wars Lite and you're suprised?
ALERT! This is my once every three months POSITIVE OUTLOOK POST. Do not read it if you can't stand the thought of someone trying to be optimistic in these "dark days" of MMOs! =D
In defense of WoW...I still don't think WoW has "become" Guild Wars (and I think I saw a few GW players rightfully upset with that comparison too).
Honestly, you know...we've all seen every MMO we've ever played EVOLVE. Some of them evolved in ways we liked....others did not. Some of them started out in a way we didn't like (I'm looking at you, Vanguard) and then became something much better...in some cases too late to save themselves...OR in the case of say AoC...were able to pull themselves up, at least to a degree, by their proverbial bootstraps and become populated decent games (from what I understand on the AoC thing...I only played it for a few days because I just couldn't run it at the time on graphic settings that made me happy).
So the moral of the story is (at least in my opinion)....games change. If they didn't change at ALL (unless they were spot on PERFECT to us from the get go) then they would shrivel up and die slow painful deaths. They would stagnate.
I think with any business you have to kind of "go with the flow." If you start attracting a WHOLE LOT of customers from a segment of the market you didn't at first (maybe) even intend, and it would financially impact you in a negative way to ignore that large group....then, as a business owner, you'd probably better see what you can do to accomodate that new influx of customers. I think WoW did that. Sadly....it negatively impacted the game from the viewpoint of some of the REST of the player base, but I do think....we're probably a minority in comparison or a company with the experience that Blizzard has behind them...wouldn't have changed things to make those accomodations. I'm QUITE sure that they have market researchers they pay a FORTUNE to help make these decisions.
So what is our recourse? We move on to other games. We may feel a ping of sadness about leaving WoW (or insert ANY other game's name there), but in the long run we realize that we enjoyed the time there, and now...it's time to enjoy something ELSE, or in some cases....to lay down gaming for a while all together.
Not only do games change....we all change as players too. I think sometimes we forget that. Five years. A lot can happen in your life in FIVE years. In the past five years we moved across town, changed jobs, our kids all graduated from high school, our daughter got married, started working for the police department AND started college, our youngest son got his first job, had heart surgery and later went on to start college, and our middle son has been engaged to be married, gone through a terrible (really really) break up, freaked out over that girl and got himself in some trouble, joined the military, my grandmother passed away, my father had major surgery, my mother was diagnosed with diabetes....etc. etc....I could list a much LONGER list. THAT is a LOT of changes! Our circumstances and our family circumstances CHANGE over the course of years.
So with the games changing....and the players' lives changing as well....is it really surprising when we find it's time to move on to something different? Does it necessarily mean the game went sour? Maybe it just means the developers are following the larger part of the market they ENDED UP drawing to them and maybe we could see that as an OPPORTUNITY to go enjoy something that's new and refreshing to us (if we can find it). And if we can't find that right game right NOW....we COULD just choose to be hopeful for games coming in the future. I know....sometimes that looks like a dim hope, but hey...some hope is better than NONE, isn't it?
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Is it complete and utter bullshit to counter those that constantly attack and goad the WoW community?
Is it complete and utter bullshit to defend the game you like?
How about I go to the board of the game you like and make insane troll comments about it and see if you think its complete and utter bullshit when I berate you for defending it.
First of all...I didn't start this thread. I responded to it because it hit the front page of the site. Secondly, you would be hard pressed to find me posting ONLY negative comments about WoW since I played it for five years and have repeatedly said I enjoyed it during most of the time I played it.
Part of the problem with SOME of the WoW players on these boards is that you take people having a different opinion about your favorite GAME as a personal "attack" and "goading" of the "WoW community." (By the way...I'm not saying some of that doesn't go on here. I think present WoW players put up with PLENTY of crap, but...so do the rest of us, to be fair.) And while I'm not sure that GAMES are in need of "defending," I can certainly understand feeling a sense of loyalty to a game similar to what people feel for a favorite singer, restaurant, movie, etc. So no...I don't think it's complete and utter bullshit to want to reply or to be irritated when people say things you consider unfair. However...all human beings HAVE opinions. And we're just not always going to agree on things.
You are more than welcome to come to any game's forum for any game I play and say WHATEVER you wish. That's what this site is....hobbyist gamers sharing ideas and expressing their very very diverse opinions. I don't think I, personally, have made any "insane troll comments," but if you think I have, I would like for you to point them out to me so that if I need to apologize I can. However, if you consider just having a different viewpoint from yours as being a "troll," well then....I'll have to disagree with you on your definition of "troll."
What IS "complete and utter bullshit" is precisely what I said (in my opinion):
"....if you post anything that isn't 100 percent "pro-WoW" in a WoW forums thread....not only are you immediately discredited by the fanbois, but you're considered a "WoW hater."
To be considered a "WoW hater" for not saying 100 percent GLORIOUS things about WoW....is complete and utter bullshit. Not liking certain things about a game...ANY game...doesn't make you a HATER of the game. That's just ridiculous. I mean FFS...there are things I don't think are 100 percent great about games I DO presently play and I certainly don't "hate" them.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
IMHO both WOW and GW are two of the best multiplayer RPGs on the market in terms of polish, stability, balance, and challenging instances. WOW has the clear advantage in terms of non-instance content and crafting, while arguably GW has better PVP. So calling WOW the new GW or vice versa is actually a complement. It's not like anyone's accusing WOW of becoming STO.
I honestly don't see the problems with instances. Dungeon and raid instances force you to work together with a team, and isn't that one of the reasons to play MMOGs?
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Guildwars is actually getting harder all the time as you play so no. Wow is getting hard when you start to endgame raid.
But you do have a point. The reason is that it is cheaper to use instancing and easier to program. It will use less of the computer while still looking good. The reason Arenanet did like they did is because they had very little moneywhen they made GW.
It is actually bad, if we are unlucky will all MMOs be like this in the future, it is cheaper and easier for the devs. But open instances with a real meaning adds a lot to the game and at least a few public dungeons adds a lot also.
Funny enough is Guildwars moving the other way now, GW2 will have a persistent world with dynamic quests in. There can your actions actually influence the whole server.
I don't mind if the open up an instance when 100 people or so are in it, that stops overcrowding but to instance all hard parts of the game just isn't fun. Hopefully will Blizzard themselves realize this for Cataclysm and make the open zones interesting again.
Umm GW was run by former WOW employees,so it is a pretty easy to assume they utilize the same formality.Same as that other developer who made their so called NEW game,yet it looks exactly like Diablo.Tera accused of stealing it's former employees ideas.Heck we can even go back to Wow and it's developers were former EQ players stealing ideas from that game lol.
Although WOW is predominantly played as an instanced game,there is still a lot of game world that is not instanced.It is just that they tied the game world to the boring quests and the REAL loot that players want is all in the instances,so ya Wow has driven itself to be an instance game.Then it is comical to see it outdo itself by allowing too many in an instance and it crashes the server lol or lag is just unplayable.
In the words of GSP
I am not impressed with your strategy Blizzard.
I treat my game plan like a mathematical equation,i try to implement the way that i see is the best strategy for myself.
You see if i go outside of the strategy and remove the instance,then the risk is much high.er for my self,but i am sorry to my fans,i try to implement but i made a couple of mistakes,i will go over it with my mentor ..Sqaure Enix and next time i will do much better
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
wow has become less rpg and more mmo. less roaming more socializing. Its more fun to me with the dungeon finder but it weakens the concept of an open world.
First and foremost, MMORPG.com is a site for discussing MMOs and not a fan site for one particular title. Both positive and negative comments are welcome within the context of the ROC. I'd hope members debate the points, rather than allowing personal attacks to abscond away with a good discussion.
That said, as a moderator who frequents this forum, I'm not unsympathetic towards your comments Xiaoki. Please use the Report tool when you think appropriate.
To the topic, functionally for some (or most, I've no idea really) WoW may relate more to GW. However, I still find personally I've more options in WoW. Currently I'm leveling a rogue and while I do run instances, mostly I'm questing about the realm with friends or folks I meet. Not that instances aren't fun, but my favorite activity (and one from the early days) is seeing how long I can last ganking in the major cities; hence the rogue.
The focus of WoW is now very much on instanced play . This above anything else led me to finally quit . I deleted characters that I had played for 5 years so I would'nt be tempted back . That in itself really means nothing anymore given I would easily be able to level a new one from 1-80 within weeks now if i wanted to and provide it with weffare epics . I think its a very fare statement WoW is essentialy guild wars now in that your unlikly to find many players outside of the city areas anymore . The thing I've noticed is theres a lot of anger pointed at Blizzard but none of this happened before Activsion became involved . I still have friends that love WoW but they are players that always souly enjoyed dungeons/raiding . I can understand its attraction to new players and those that are in the focus groups its designed to appeal to. Just wish it had turned out a different way and really hope that decent mmos in future dont end up going down the same path .
No you're wrong, no matter how many posts you try to post and get the last word.
GW's does NOT have an open seamless world to adventure in (with not even a loading screeen in sight).
GW does NOT have this seamless open world to fight, craft and adventure in.
Period.
Cross server content is simply what makes WOW great to play in whatever mood you're in.
The adventure boy (like the mod said) or the dungeon crawler, or the world gatherer, or the world explorer, or the BG dweller, or the world PvP in Wintergrasp with 240 people fighting.
You choose. You don't have that choice in GW. Big difference.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I agree with all of this. It's not so much about skill anymore its more about do I have the time to do this to get what I need. More like a test of endurance.
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me."
Paul Atreides
You might have the choice but no one chooses that path.
While saying WoW is now like Guild Wars is an exaggeration you cannot deny that WoW has moved in that direction. You dont need to travel to a 5 man dungeon which are instanced anyway. You dont even need to speak to a battlemaster to queue for a battleground. Dont forget when battlegrounds first came out in 1.5 you had to travel to Alterac mountains or Ashenvale and queue outside the entrance to the bg's.
Hearthstones are now 30 mins, Shamans astrall recall is 15 mins.
From Dalaran and Shattrath you have portals to major cities.
Meeting stones now act as summoning stones. In classic they didnt.
You can get all defensive and upset that someone dares criticise your beloved WoW but it doesnt make the point of this thread any less pertinent. That is WoW has moved away from being an MMORPG in the traditional sense.
Being able to teleport here and there doesnt make WoW any less of an MMORPG than the old WoW or EQ1.
Other than a persistant online world and progressive characters what are the SET IN STONE RULES for being an MMORPG? Also, did you decide these rules? Are you the one that decides whats an MMORPG and what is not?