WoW haters will continue to talk down about WoW game mechanics as if they realy know how they work spouting rubbish like "mechanic A was stolen from Game B", yet they forget about a game called Diablo made by a company called Blizzard, a game released before EQ1 and Even UO that featured:
- Classes
- Levels
- Loot
- Quests
- Dungeons
- Gear
- Stats
- Bosses
- PvP
No not the first game game to feature these mechanics but pre-dates what most consider the start of the MMO genre. So you see Blizzard simply employed mechanics they had used in their ealier games and in fact its EQ and OU that could be said to be the copy cats. Discuss.
Then again the Ultima Series started in the early 80s and had a lot of the same mechanics that were later used in UO. There are actually quite a few games out there that were made in the 80s based on the whole D&D mechanic (which is what we see used today in games such as EQ, WoW, etc).
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
2. Any MMO i can get to max level in a month is a waste of my time,
3. NO IMMERSION- i cant stress this enough, i like to feel like im my character in this world, its kind of the point of a ROLE PLAYING GAME. i never felt like that because you had to have like 5 level 80's or whatever they are up to by now, to be accepted into some guilds or even accepted by the community. im not 6 characters im just freaking one lol.
4. i simply like Final Fantasy XI better, yes its grindtastic but i got the immersion level i wanted and has a nicer community of people and still gives players a challenge to plan strategies instead of "omg go over there and zerg!"
I have been playing WoW since the beginning, and I have totally disagree. It is the company that is bringing itself down. The game now caters to young children who want t a quick buzz, level quickly, the me me me brigade, the I want it now kids. If you have played for any length of time, you will remember what an achievement it was to get that first mount, get to 60, and get decent gear. It has turned into the microwave meal of MMORPGs. and that is not a good thing. The way the game is heading, it cheapens everything people achieve. Yes, I understand, that the game has "grown", but it has NOT matured. It was a environment you could really get into, now it is more for casual players (popcorn kids.) The game has gotten richer, but the service and attitude to customers has gotten worse. Let's ignore Blizzard's bias for one faction, which is hugely evident at their HQ, but look at how long it takes to get customer service when needed. Let us look at and average 4 day wait ( I have been waiting a week, and still no response), to speak with a GM. When companies take your money, and do not provide solid unbiased customer service, that is the slippery slope to losing them, unless mommy and daddy pay the bill, and don't call for customer service. I still play WoW, but the attraction is certainly on the decline. I do not hate Blizzard, I just think they are losing the plot a bit.
What WoW does have going for it:
A rich playing environment, with attention to detail
To hate a game is above me. The only definition of hate that i believe in is when you are subject to a bad exposure over a certain period of time or you are forced to cope with something that you really can't stand, consider it humiliating or annoying.
I take a game, test it and cast my mental vote to either like or dislike it.
To hate a game is above me. The only definition of hate that i believe in is when you are subject to a bad exposure over a certain period of time or you are forced to cope with something that you really can't stand, consider it humiliating or annoying.
But there are many players like that!
They will moan and whine about WoW everything single day on various forums, they will repeat how bad the game is, they will critic every single change Blizzard makes saying it sucks, and whine more, moan more, b...h more... yet they still pay a damned subscription to play the damned game. We have quite a few specimens of that in this very thread.
I've never seen "consumers" with so much appetite for pain, so much masochism than in the MMORPG community, be it WoW or any other game. But my real opinion is that many of those are just immature, and they think they are cool moaning and critisizing everything the dev makes, but in reality they like the game and they just whine to seek the attention they crave for to feel "special".
I mean, nobody can be stupid enough to dislike a product to the point of hating it and yet still pay for it... don't ya think?
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I notice that the hatred seems to come from players of other games who saw their favorite game's population decline after WOW came out eg: SWG,EQ,UO etc.. They can't handle the fact that WOW not only appealed to far more people and took away their players but that it continued to stay successful for so long. So they go out of their way to bash it every chance they get. It's the biggest case of nerdrage I've ever seen next to the oldschool SWG veteran's rage against SOE.
I love how you call the PvP pointless and a mini game. It gives you a purpose. Although I agree a 50v50 of just killing each other might be fun, the chaos is too great and AoE/burst would prevail if that were the only point. If we are to say CTF is a mini game then It's hilarious how Halo has a mini game in it. Capture the flag has always had strategy in it and maybe it's not as strategic as it could be (Zerg rush anyone), it's still more than just spamming blizzard/pom pyro while getting a group of 50 mages to faceroll. (Or 50 rogues if you prefer)
How are you comparing the strategy of PVP to the fact that it has absolutely 0 effect on anything, outside of that PVP instance? A Mini-Game is something that is just done on the side of the focus of the main game, WoW's primary focus is PVE and has been since they added in Battlegrounds (when I quit the first time).
The only part of PVP in WoW that's not a Mini-Game, is the fight over WG. WoW's PVE can and does effect the world. Most of the dungeons don't, but they still focus on you getting up to the point where you can participate in the dungeons that do effect the world and make changes on your server. Epic PVP gear can be replaced more effectively by the gear you can get in non-Heroics.
In WoW, if you do PVP you're just wasting time and piddling around for fun. If you leveled up to 80 and spent time farming to have fun PVPing in WoW, then that's you. I'd rather just play a FPS.
You obviously, did not do much PVP in WOW or not in a long time, a large part of WOW is PVP. You can actually devide WOW in to 2 games; PVE and PVP. The Arena is a major deal in WOW, actually the major problem (I think) WOW is having is balancing the classes for both PVP and PVE; trying to have each class bring a needed effect, unique to other classes in raids and yet not have it cause a major inbalance in PVP. I actually loved PVP and hated PVE in WOW, only did PVE to attain certain trinkets and maybe weapons, so that i could start in the arena at least semy-well equiped. WOWs tornament is the Arena, where winners get from 15 to 35 thousand dollars, thats each player in each team, lol.
"Epic PVP gear can be replacedmore effectively by the gear you can get in non-Heroics."
There is no way you can play PVP in WOW, effectively with non-heroics, only if your playing a very good range class, lets say a hunter, will you do OK with very good Epic raid gear, because PVP gear has resiliance, which makes a major difference in survival in PVP, and even with a lot of resiliance, you still have a tough time, so with gear that does not have resiliance, you can be killed extremely fast. Also you can get PVP gear when doing PVE,but arena PVP gear is by far the best.
I quit WOW, because my pasion was PVP,but it has become more and more gear and class based, rather then skill. Skill only comes into play when your fighting 1v1 with gear score not far apart from each, otherwise your DPS is going to royaly suck, compaired to higher gear,especially in melee, and also depends if your class is capable of beating the class your going up against (its nearly impossible for a warrior to beat a palidin with similar gear and especially with his CDs up, and even Blizz has recognized that a shaman could never beat a rogue), unless your going up against a total newbie or his or hers CDs are not up. So its based on circumstances, rather then just plain skill, but i don't think there is an MMO that truely has a fully ballanced pvp senario.
And the other reason i left is because I have explored everyplace in WOW and was also tired of the same old never ending grind.
...Blizzard promotes now even cross server play simply becausethe content offer is too big for 10K people doing dungeons or Battlegrounds.
And the next step is cross game LFG tools: you play Diablo3 or SC2 and you are able to contact cross game friends and guildies in BattleNet...
I couldn't have even conceptualized a game feature that could single-handedly destroy what little immersion is left in the genre. This could do it.
Maybe no one else will follow Blizzard with this lead. Ya, right.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
...Blizzard promotes now even cross server play simply becausethe content offer is too big for 10K people doing dungeons or Battlegrounds.
And the next step is cross game LFG tools: you play Diablo3 or SC2 and you are able to contact cross game friends and guildies in BattleNet...
I couldn't have even conceptualized a game feature that could single-handedly destroy what little immersion is left in the genre. This could do it.
Maybe no one else will follow Blizzard with this lead. Ya, right.
Doesnt SOE already let you contact people in any of thier games while you are logged into another?
I could have sworn you I could talk to friends in EQ and SWG while in EQ2.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I always see this thread come up and I always see such goofy ass rationalizations, based on either bizarre observations about player behavior or really obscure and mostly inaccurate game play reviews of WoW itself.
If you want the dirty simple truth; 99% of players have played WoW at some point. As with virtually every MMO the players that ended up hating it found something it lacked (such as steep death penalties or corpse-looting in pvp) which they really wanted from MMO. But only about a quarter of players that complain about it fall into this category, the other 75% played WoW, enjoyed it to some degree for a time, before Blizzard either nerfed something they liked to use or turned away from features that they really enjoyed, causing that deep seeded resentment. Nor does it help that other games shamelessly copy WoW design.
As has been said by poets far more eloquent than I, only love can breed that much hatred. If you look hard enough you can see how most of these players loved the game before they hated it, like a conservative preacher bashing gay rights who secretly meets his boyfriend where nobody notices. Ironically you'll find eerily similar posts on WoW fan sites as anti-WoW sites, both with an equal amount of eerily similar venom directed at Blizzard. It's not coincidence.
Chances are they'll never come out of the closet but when people put that much effort into yelling at the wind, it's fairly obvious what's behind it.
The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.
I can't tell you why other people hate WoW, but I can tell you why I hate it.
Most obnoxious playerbase in the history of MMOs. This is true of almost every Blizzard game, something about their games just appeals to the worst of the internet.
Unbalanced classes by design. Blizzzard deliberately breaks classes by OPing them in order to extend subscriptions. They know that their immature players will jump on an OP class and play it until they next OPed class is made, instead of quitting the game altogether because they're bored of it.
Raids are boring. I'm not going to spend 4 hours every night for a CHANCE to get loot, sorry. If they cut out everything but raiding, WoW would've never taken off. Log in for the first time and wait 1 HOUR, then spend another 3-4 hours for nothing but a small chance at loot....no one would play that.
Theme park feel. Blizzard managed to completely remove any realistic feel to the game world and made it just one stop after the other. Nothing in the game has any substance.
Last but not least, they completely destroyed the feel and mojo of the Hoirde by forcing elves and paladins into the faction. This also gave Horde what it was missing, a massive preteen base that didn't want to look "ugly" so they played alliance. Now all the horde races are vastly outnumbered by elves and the original races are a joke to the new, "pretty" horde players.
THere are other reasons that I can't think of now, but I'm reminded every time I go back and check out patch notes on the wow site from time to time.
Nah! It doesn't look like you hate WOW. Way would anybody that hates something keep checking up on it. I think your probably more like me, just very disappointed with WOW. It had tremendous potential and it seemed an incredibly fun and fulfilling game, But after you've worked so hard and spent so much time to reach 80 and ones you get there you realize that your only really at the begining and the game play has tremendously changed and now your going to spend just as much time grinding with farming and gearing (as much as you did to reach 80) to reach a point where you can some-what compete in PVP, and that for PVE, your going to have to spend hours and hours doing the same thing over and over again to get geared up and your doing this now amoung a bunch of self-Obsorbed jerks, you finally relize, it was not worth it.
Not going to even try and explain what phasing is if you don't know.
Sure, play a mage and stand still while a rogue is on you. Good luck on winning that fight. - Yes I spoke of PvP as opposed to games like Aion or GW where from everything I've seen, there is no point in moving. Survivability will not change. BTW
I'm sorry...but if you're a mage and you're fighting a rogue that doesn't have you stunned so you CANNOT move....you'll probably win because that rogue is a dumbass.
On top of that, the combat is turn based. Yep, it's hidden, but if you pay close attention, it's turn based.
Wait WTF? Really don't think so. I'd also like to know how much PvP you've actually done.
The crafting system was a solid attempt and awarded those who went out and got the materials on their time. The only part about it that was truly bad was the very limited gear while leveling. Although end game if you aren't crafting you're not playing to your full potential. Sure, not a great method but when it really allows you to get end game crafting pretty easily while leveling, there is no excuse.
I agree with some instanced bosses may just feel like reskinned mobs. But show me a game that tried as hard on instances and came out with better results. Besides the raiding was what I was really shooting at since AI questing/grinding is basically the same in every game.
I love how you call the PvP pointless and a mini game. It gives you a purpose. Although I agree a 50v50 of just killing each other might be fun, the chaos is too great and AoE/burst would prevail if that were the only point. If we are to say CTF is a mini game then It's hilarious how Halo has a mini game in it. Capture the flag has always had strategy in it and maybe it's not as strategic as it could be (Zerg rush anyone), it's still more than just spamming blizzard/pom pyro while getting a group of 50 mages to faceroll. (Or 50 rogues if you prefer)
Sorry, but I could NOT let the rogue/mage comment slide....seriously.
But I guess that just in "real" life, critic is easy for those who don't do anything... and it makes you feel special ;-)
+1 If only people who had actually played were allowed to post, this thread would probably be like 3 pages long if that.
+ 2
This would be a great rule if it would also be applied to all the other gamespecific MMO threads, that people could only post if they'd actually played for some time the MMO that's being discussed.
That STILL wouldn't make some people happy, because people like ME that played for five years and no longer play (as of January) are still constantly told that since they're not an "active" player...they have no right to comment, regardless of having played from RELEASE until just a couple of months ago.
FACT: If you don't have 100 percent glowing things to say about WoW....regardless of when you played, how long you played, etc....SOMEONE will always get upset when you say something they don't agree with. There is no solution to the dilemma other than completely squelching freedom of speech and allowing only PRESENT players of ALL MMOs to comment on those games' forums. And then....how would people prove their current activity level? Just cannot be done. We all have to deal with it on all of the different game forums. It's just LIFE on MMORPG.com.
Never once heard it called WoWmart ever actually. It's not Blizz or WoW's fault if every unoriginal hack of a MMO designer out there tries to copy WoW. It's the designers fault for not having an original idea in his head.
You have it backwards. WOW took from all that came before it and tweaked on those idea's. Nothing really about WoW was orginal other then their storyline. What made WoW so successful was alot obout when it was released. Their really hasn't been an awesome game released since the best of pre-World of Warcraft. The only thing in the 2 years i played WoW off and on that i liked and missed in other games was the mail and AH system. Other then that all others did it better in every area namely PVP. What made WoW popular was its HUGE warcraft fan base.
Blizzard marketed the game by advertising hard which was smart. It's a relatively easy game to play with low system demands compared to modern day game requirements. WoW is the perfect CASUAL GAMER GAME. It captured the casual gamer market all the while putting us hardcore gamers out to pasture who demand much more from a game. Thats why i brand it WoW-mart. Has alot of nice items but if you need a specialty item you need to go to a specialty shop and the market needs a game that tailors to the specialty/hardcore player. I actually want a fantasy based MMORPG game that sorts the casual gamer out. Maybe somebody will in the future have the guts to market one for us that prefer something different, something more challenging.
What you say is probably not going to happen for the following reasons:
1- Ppl creat games for money, so they are going to simulate WOW, because it's obvious that the WOW way is what most ppl want.
2- Lets face it, hardcore gamers are a minority, especially now-days, whos got the time to spend that much time in a game the gives nothing in return? unless of cours, your exceptionally good- and in that case you would love WOW, because in WOW's international tournament, you can win upwards of $75,000, lol. If you think WOW is so easy, and your so good, why don't you join the tournament and make awesome money?
Housing! seriously thats why some of you hate WoW, listen just enroll on an interior decoration course and let it be. Housing is a pointless waste of time, when bosses start droping table lamps in WoW I am quitting.
LOL. Even though it would be fun, as just something else to do when you feel like just mellowing out and get away from the thick of it for a moment, that's why i love the graphics and the flying mounts, it can just take you away, but had the most fun in BG pvp.
But I guess that just in "real" life, critic is easy for those who don't do anything... and it makes you feel special ;-)
+1 If only people who had actually played were allowed to post, this thread would probably be like 3 pages long if that.
+ 2
This would be a great rule if it would also be applied to all the other gamespecific MMO threads, that people could only post if they'd actually played for some time the MMO that's being discussed.
That STILL wouldn't make some people happy, because people like ME that played for five years and no longer play (as of January) are still constantly told that since they're not an "active" player...they have no right to comment, regardless of having played from RELEASE until just a couple of months ago.
FACT: If you don't have 100 percent glowing things to say about WoW....regardless of when you played, how long you played, etc....SOMEONE will always get upset when you say something they don't agree with. There is no solution to the dilemma other than completely squelching freedom of speech and allowing only PRESENT players of ALL MMOs to comment on those games' forums. And then....how would people prove their current activity level? Just cannot be done. We all have to deal with it on all of the different game forums. It's just LIFE on MMORPG.com.
It's really a matter of what you comment on. I personally will not comment on any end game stuff that happened during Burning Crusade since that was a tiem where I took a long break from the game. On the other hand I feel fully justified commenting on raiding in vanilla and WotLK since I have first hand experience of that.
I think the most glaring example right now is the new LFD system. If you quit the game before it was implemented then you really should not post on how it is being used since you have no first hand knowledge of it and all you have is conjecture. Your past experience with WoW allows you to comment on how things were before the new system but give you little basis to comment on how the system changed things.
I'd like to say I've played my fair share of MMO's. I'd also like to think I know the pro's and con's of most MMO's, but I don't understand why so many people reserve an intense hatred for WoW. People constantly compare other games to WoW saying how they're better and then bash on everything WoW has to offer.
But lets straighten one thing out first. When I speak of WoW I like to speak for the Burning Crusade version of WoW. Not a huge WotLK fan myself, although people seem to forget about BC altogether and just hate on the game.
WoW has many things going for it:
Diverse mechanics, some of which no other game has. (WotLK phasing technology anyone?)
Great free combat - Have to keep moving to stay alive, much like many games should be IMO.
Crafting system. Not the best by any means, although still pretty good none the less.
Best PvE of any game, or at the very least, can be argued to be one of the best.
Great PvP combat with more balance than most games will offer. I realize their are other "PvP" games that do better but seeing as how they usually fail in terms of PvE content while WoW offers both, I will argue that WoW's PvP is still very good. Also offers many different ways to PvP which is nice.
Talent specialization, and if I remember correct it was the first (or one of the first) games to introduce such a system that is now deemed mandatory in most games.
A vast array of spells with the ability to change your role with most classes.
I guess the worst thing about WoW how it "caters" to the casual gamers. While I will agree it kills the game a bit, I myself don't have much time to dedicate to the game anymore and the arguement how there is no challenge is completely false. I would like to say to anyone who says WoW has no challenge to show me your ICC Heroic 25 Lich King achievement or just shut up. The game has a challenge, sure not on any normal 10 man raid for the most part, but if thats not hard enough, just ramp up the difficulty. Don't just beat the easiest setting and then complain about how easy it was.
There are other games that I believe are superior to WoW or pioneered many aspects of MMO's (UO/EQ for instance), but thats not a real reason to hate on WoW. It had 11 million players at one point and I do agree they flaunt that fact too much, but I think they've earned the right. Blizzard is a terrific company. They had Diablo and Starcraft and even the original Warcraft long before WoW was conceived.
I guess I can't comprehend why people play WoW for 10 minutes and then complain about why it's the worst thing ever created while most games try to copy off it because of how much of a success it is. I will agree WoW copied aspects from other games but thats what you do when you find something that just works. Why forsake it altogether then you can change it and make it a part of your game.
Well I suppose thats my defence for a game that I personally believe is one of the top MMO's ever.
1. Many old school MMORPG players, meaning pre-WoW players, hate WoW because it took what they were used to and almost turned it on its head.
2. I was one of those old school players. I couldn't stand the boring quests, because they had you running all around doing what seemed like chores for lazy NPC's. I much preferred gathering a group of 5 people, exploring the world until I found a good spot to camp, and then proceed to slaughtering mobs for hours with those 5 people. You learned and mastered teamwork and how each class complimented other classes before you were even level 20. Plus, open world dungeon crawls were a blast.
3. After WoTLK released, I finally gave the game another shot and I think it's the best game on the market. Pound for pound, feature for feature, the game just offers more than any other game and it's polished (aka high quality).
4. LOTRO is the first game to offer phasing. WoTLK did it several years after the first appearance of phasing.
5. The ability to change your role at a whim is not a benefit for those people that care about individuality and carving a special place in the world for their character. Now in WoW it's like, dual spec or go home. Oh? You're a Warrior? You better be dual specced tank and dps if you want to compete. Now everyone who wants to be just one thing gets screwed.
6. IMHO, it's the community that killed WoW for me. Why in the world would I subject myself to a community that cares more about getting Epic gear than forming friendships? Back in the day, you got an invite to a group for just being you and knowing your class. In WoW, you need to show a gear score, achievements, and be committed to playing several hours in a row if you want to take part in the challenging content. WoW is casual friendly, but the community that's good at gaming is not.
A Man to that. I recently stoped playing WOW, because this constant fight to get geared, and for those who think WOW does not have hardcore players, its become so hard to get in to good guilds now, that you have to go on their website and fill out an application. lol
But I guess that just in "real" life, critic is easy for those who don't do anything... and it makes you feel special ;-)
+1 If only people who had actually played were allowed to post, this thread would probably be like 3 pages long if that.
+ 2
This would be a great rule if it would also be applied to all the other gamespecific MMO threads, that people could only post if they'd actually played for some time the MMO that's being discussed.
That STILL wouldn't make some people happy, because people like ME that played for five years and no longer play (as of January) are still constantly told that since they're not an "active" player...they have no right to comment, regardless of having played from RELEASE until just a couple of months ago.
FACT: If you don't have 100 percent glowing things to say about WoW....regardless of when you played, how long you played, etc....SOMEONE will always get upset when you say something they don't agree with. There is no solution to the dilemma other than completely squelching freedom of speech and allowing only PRESENT players of ALL MMOs to comment on those games' forums. And then....how would people prove their current activity level? Just cannot be done. We all have to deal with it on all of the different game forums. It's just LIFE on MMORPG.com.
It's really a matter of what you comment on. I personally will not comment on any end game stuff that happened during Burning Crusade since that was a tiem where I took a long break from the game. On the other hand I feel fully justified commenting on raiding in vanilla and WotLK since I have first hand experience of that.
I think the most glaring example right now is the new LFD system. If you quit the game before it was implemented then you really should not post on how it is being used since you have no first hand knowledge of it and all you have is conjecture. Your past experience with WoW allows you to comment on how things were before the new system but give you little basis to comment on how the system changed things.
I never comment on any part of ANY game that I don't have first hand experience with, unless I qualify the comment by saying..."I have no first hand experience with this." And honestly...I cannot think of a time where I have ever had to make that qualification.
As far as WoW goes...I left after I saw the almost immediate (and negative) results of the new LFD/LFG tool on my own particular guild. It just became so easy for people to PuG all day for fast emblems, that the guild pretty much became....crafting chat. The only time people ever talked any more was when they were either farming mats or doing some quick crafting for the AH, their character, or someone else.
I always hated PuGs and a tool that would "help me" to PuG all day and night...was not a good addition for me personally.
But yes...I absolutely understand what you're saying. The problem is...some people make assumptions on when people left, or whether they still play, etc. And some people like to make negative accusations in those regards simply because they don't agree with the comment that is being made, so they attempt to discredit that person's opinion by making false accusations.
Regardless...
ON TOPIC:
I don't think anyone, that is HONEST...."hates" WoW itself. I've said this before. Many people on these boards hate the direction that WoW went with their own game, and the onslaught of copycat games that chose a similar direction thinking they were going to be able to grab a piece of the financial pie. So myself....I am not sure that I would credit Blizzard with "destroying" the genre. I think the GREED of other companies probably has more to do with the type of garbage we often see released today....but that's just my take on it.
I don't hate WoW. I don't love WoW. There are things about the game that I absolutely unequivocally enjoyed. There are other things that I loathed. For me....I just reached the conclusion that it is NOT the best MMO "fit" for ME. Other gamers' mileage may vary. I don't expect everyone to love the games that I choose to play, and I'm not sure why some WoW players are so seemingly shocked and indignant when some people don't like THEIR game of choice. I'm not sure what part of "we're all different people".....is so difficult to understand. O.o Kinda just blows my mind.
I'd like to say I've played my fair share of MMO's. I'd also like to think I know the pro's and con's of most MMO's, but I don't understand why so many people reserve an intense hatred for WoW. People constantly compare other games to WoW saying how they're better and then bash on everything WoW has to offer.
But lets straighten one thing out first. When I speak of WoW I like to speak for the Burning Crusade version of WoW. Not a huge WotLK fan myself, although people seem to forget about BC altogether and just hate on the game.
WoW has many things going for it:
Diverse mechanics, some of which no other game has. (WotLK phasing technology anyone?)
Great free combat - Have to keep moving to stay alive, much like many games should be IMO.
Crafting system. Not the best by any means, although still pretty good none the less.
Best PvE of any game, or at the very least, can be argued to be one of the best.
Great PvP combat with more balance than most games will offer. I realize their are other "PvP" games that do better but seeing as how they usually fail in terms of PvE content while WoW offers both, I will argue that WoW's PvP is still very good. Also offers many different ways to PvP which is nice.
Talent specialization, and if I remember correct it was the first (or one of the first) games to introduce such a system that is now deemed mandatory in most games.
A vast array of spells with the ability to change your role with most classes.
I guess the worst thing about WoW how it "caters" to the casual gamers. While I will agree it kills the game a bit, I myself don't have much time to dedicate to the game anymore and the arguement how there is no challenge is completely false. I would like to say to anyone who says WoW has no challenge to show me your ICC Heroic 25 Lich King achievement or just shut up. The game has a challenge, sure not on any normal 10 man raid for the most part, but if thats not hard enough, just ramp up the difficulty. Don't just beat the easiest setting and then complain about how easy it was.
There are other games that I believe are superior to WoW or pioneered many aspects of MMO's (UO/EQ for instance), but thats not a real reason to hate on WoW. It had 11 million players at one point and I do agree they flaunt that fact too much, but I think they've earned the right. Blizzard is a terrific company. They had Diablo and Starcraft and even the original Warcraft long before WoW was conceived.
I guess I can't comprehend why people play WoW for 10 minutes and then complain about why it's the worst thing ever created while most games try to copy off it because of how much of a success it is. I will agree WoW copied aspects from other games but thats what you do when you find something that just works. Why forsake it altogether then you can change it and make it a part of your game.
Well I suppose thats my defence for a game that I personally believe is one of the top MMO's ever.
1. Many old school MMORPG players, meaning pre-WoW players, hate WoW because it took what they were used to and almost turned it on its head.
2. I was one of those old school players. I couldn't stand the boring quests, because they had you running all around doing what seemed like chores for lazy NPC's. I much preferred gathering a group of 5 people, exploring the world until I found a good spot to camp, and then proceed to slaughtering mobs for hours with those 5 people. You learned and mastered teamwork and how each class complimented other classes before you were even level 20. Plus, open world dungeon crawls were a blast.
3. After WoTLK released, I finally gave the game another shot and I think it's the best game on the market. Pound for pound, feature for feature, the game just offers more than any other game and it's polished (aka high quality).
4. LOTRO is the first game to offer phasing. WoTLK did it several years after the first appearance of phasing.
5. The ability to change your role at a whim is not a benefit for those people that care about individuality and carving a special place in the world for their character. Now in WoW it's like, dual spec or go home. Oh? You're a Warrior? You better be dual specced tank and dps if you want to compete. Now everyone who wants to be just one thing gets screwed.
6. IMHO, it's the community that killed WoW for me. Why in the world would I subject myself to a community that cares more about getting Epic gear than forming friendships? Back in the day, you got an invite to a group for just being you and knowing your class. In WoW, you need to show a gear score, achievements, and be committed to playing several hours in a row if you want to take part in the challenging content. WoW is casual friendly, but the community that's good at gaming is not.
A Man to that. I recently stoped playing WOW, because this constant fight to get geared, and for those who think WOW does not have hardcore players, its become so hard to get in to good guilds now, that you have to go on their website and fill out an application. lol
That's not really anything new. Aren't all decent guilds like that? I mean, we did background checks and interviews for all new applicants in FFXI.
A Man to that. I recently stoped playing WOW, because this constant fight to get geared, and for those who think WOW does not have hardcore players, its become so hard to get in to good guilds now, that you have to go on their website and fill out an application. lol
That's not really anything new. Aren't all decent guilds like that? I mean, we did background checks and interviews for all new applicants in FFXI.
That really depends on what you mean by 'good guild'. I recently joined a very nice guild with nice people who have a good head ont heri shoulders and know how to play the game. There was no application and a very short interview process where they just verified that I understood what the guild was about. I went through the same in my previous guild which was just as 'good' but fell apart due to the guild leader taking an extended break from the game and not setting up a replacement. Of course, neither of these guilds would be considered 'competive progression' guilds so they did not have to bother with a massive screening process and were in fact willing to take in anyone who seemed like a decent person and a decent player.
Some of the WoW haters out there Remind me of ex smokers. They used to smoke 2 packs a day but now that they have quit they evangalize about the Evils of smoking. (I don't smoke but I think it is annoying) The best story I ever heard about this was that when Kim Jong Ill quit smoking he decided to make it Illegal for anyone in North Korea to smoke.
Some of the ex WoW players seem to be like that. There is a pretty standard story on these forums "I played wow for 2 years, quit, came back, quit again now I am determined to evangalize about the evils of WoW."
That is why there is so much hate, because you love it or hate it.
Comments
Then again the Ultima Series started in the early 80s and had a lot of the same mechanics that were later used in UO. There are actually quite a few games out there that were made in the 80s based on the whole D&D mechanic (which is what we see used today in games such as EQ, WoW, etc).
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Keylogger above, do not click on that link
We know ...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Well thank you for speaking on behalf of every single person that might possibly read this thread.
1. The WoW community sucked everytime i joined
2. Any MMO i can get to max level in a month is a waste of my time,
3. NO IMMERSION- i cant stress this enough, i like to feel like im my character in this world, its kind of the point of a ROLE PLAYING GAME. i never felt like that because you had to have like 5 level 80's or whatever they are up to by now, to be accepted into some guilds or even accepted by the community. im not 6 characters im just freaking one lol.
4. i simply like Final Fantasy XI better, yes its grindtastic but i got the immersion level i wanted and has a nicer community of people and still gives players a challenge to plan strategies instead of "omg go over there and zerg!"
I have been playing WoW since the beginning, and I have totally disagree. It is the company that is bringing itself down. The game now caters to young children who want t a quick buzz, level quickly, the me me me brigade, the I want it now kids. If you have played for any length of time, you will remember what an achievement it was to get that first mount, get to 60, and get decent gear. It has turned into the microwave meal of MMORPGs. and that is not a good thing. The way the game is heading, it cheapens everything people achieve. Yes, I understand, that the game has "grown", but it has NOT matured. It was a environment you could really get into, now it is more for casual players (popcorn kids.) The game has gotten richer, but the service and attitude to customers has gotten worse. Let's ignore Blizzard's bias for one faction, which is hugely evident at their HQ, but look at how long it takes to get customer service when needed. Let us look at and average 4 day wait ( I have been waiting a week, and still no response), to speak with a GM. When companies take your money, and do not provide solid unbiased customer service, that is the slippery slope to losing them, unless mommy and daddy pay the bill, and don't call for customer service. I still play WoW, but the attraction is certainly on the decline. I do not hate Blizzard, I just think they are losing the plot a bit.
What WoW does have going for it:
A rich playing environment, with attention to detail
Plenty of choice in the detail of your character
A vast world to explore
To hate a game is above me. The only definition of hate that i believe in is when you are subject to a bad exposure over a certain period of time or you are forced to cope with something that you really can't stand, consider it humiliating or annoying.
I take a game, test it and cast my mental vote to either like or dislike it.
Hate is a powerful world, so why even bother?
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
But there are many players like that!
They will moan and whine about WoW everything single day on various forums, they will repeat how bad the game is, they will critic every single change Blizzard makes saying it sucks, and whine more, moan more, b...h more... yet they still pay a damned subscription to play the damned game. We have quite a few specimens of that in this very thread.
I've never seen "consumers" with so much appetite for pain, so much masochism than in the MMORPG community, be it WoW or any other game. But my real opinion is that many of those are just immature, and they think they are cool moaning and critisizing everything the dev makes, but in reality they like the game and they just whine to seek the attention they crave for to feel "special".
I mean, nobody can be stupid enough to dislike a product to the point of hating it and yet still pay for it... don't ya think?
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I notice that the hatred seems to come from players of other games who saw their favorite game's population decline after WOW came out eg: SWG,EQ,UO etc.. They can't handle the fact that WOW not only appealed to far more people and took away their players but that it continued to stay successful for so long. So they go out of their way to bash it every chance they get. It's the biggest case of nerdrage I've ever seen next to the oldschool SWG veteran's rage against SOE.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
You obviously, did not do much PVP in WOW or not in a long time, a large part of WOW is PVP. You can actually devide WOW in to 2 games; PVE and PVP. The Arena is a major deal in WOW, actually the major problem (I think) WOW is having is balancing the classes for both PVP and PVE; trying to have each class bring a needed effect, unique to other classes in raids and yet not have it cause a major inbalance in PVP. I actually loved PVP and hated PVE in WOW, only did PVE to attain certain trinkets and maybe weapons, so that i could start in the arena at least semy-well equiped. WOWs tornament is the Arena, where winners get from 15 to 35 thousand dollars, thats each player in each team, lol.
"Epic PVP gear can be replacedmore effectively by the gear you can get in non-Heroics."
There is no way you can play PVP in WOW, effectively with non-heroics, only if your playing a very good range class, lets say a hunter, will you do OK with very good Epic raid gear, because PVP gear has resiliance, which makes a major difference in survival in PVP, and even with a lot of resiliance, you still have a tough time, so with gear that does not have resiliance, you can be killed extremely fast. Also you can get PVP gear when doing PVE,but arena PVP gear is by far the best.
I quit WOW, because my pasion was PVP,but it has become more and more gear and class based, rather then skill. Skill only comes into play when your fighting 1v1 with gear score not far apart from each, otherwise your DPS is going to royaly suck, compaired to higher gear,especially in melee, and also depends if your class is capable of beating the class your going up against (its nearly impossible for a warrior to beat a palidin with similar gear and especially with his CDs up, and even Blizz has recognized that a shaman could never beat a rogue), unless your going up against a total newbie or his or hers CDs are not up. So its based on circumstances, rather then just plain skill, but i don't think there is an MMO that truely has a fully ballanced pvp senario.
And the other reason i left is because I have explored everyplace in WOW and was also tired of the same old never ending grind.
Skipper
I couldn't have even conceptualized a game feature that could single-handedly destroy what little immersion is left in the genre. This could do it.
Maybe no one else will follow Blizzard with this lead. Ya, right.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Doesnt SOE already let you contact people in any of thier games while you are logged into another?
I could have sworn you I could talk to friends in EQ and SWG while in EQ2.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
It opened the MMO world to the average person (more mainstream) and brought in a much younger crowd.
It lowered the diversity of the MMO market.
I always see this thread come up and I always see such goofy ass rationalizations, based on either bizarre observations about player behavior or really obscure and mostly inaccurate game play reviews of WoW itself.
If you want the dirty simple truth; 99% of players have played WoW at some point. As with virtually every MMO the players that ended up hating it found something it lacked (such as steep death penalties or corpse-looting in pvp) which they really wanted from MMO. But only about a quarter of players that complain about it fall into this category, the other 75% played WoW, enjoyed it to some degree for a time, before Blizzard either nerfed something they liked to use or turned away from features that they really enjoyed, causing that deep seeded resentment. Nor does it help that other games shamelessly copy WoW design.
As has been said by poets far more eloquent than I, only love can breed that much hatred. If you look hard enough you can see how most of these players loved the game before they hated it, like a conservative preacher bashing gay rights who secretly meets his boyfriend where nobody notices. Ironically you'll find eerily similar posts on WoW fan sites as anti-WoW sites, both with an equal amount of eerily similar venom directed at Blizzard. It's not coincidence.
Chances are they'll never come out of the closet but when people put that much effort into yelling at the wind, it's fairly obvious what's behind it.
The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.
Nah! It doesn't look like you hate WOW. Way would anybody that hates something keep checking up on it. I think your probably more like me, just very disappointed with WOW. It had tremendous potential and it seemed an incredibly fun and fulfilling game, But after you've worked so hard and spent so much time to reach 80 and ones you get there you realize that your only really at the begining and the game play has tremendously changed and now your going to spend just as much time grinding with farming and gearing (as much as you did to reach 80) to reach a point where you can some-what compete in PVP, and that for PVE, your going to have to spend hours and hours doing the same thing over and over again to get geared up and your doing this now amoung a bunch of self-Obsorbed jerks, you finally relize, it was not worth it.
Skipper
Sorry, but I could NOT let the rogue/mage comment slide....seriously.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
That STILL wouldn't make some people happy, because people like ME that played for five years and no longer play (as of January) are still constantly told that since they're not an "active" player...they have no right to comment, regardless of having played from RELEASE until just a couple of months ago.
FACT: If you don't have 100 percent glowing things to say about WoW....regardless of when you played, how long you played, etc....SOMEONE will always get upset when you say something they don't agree with. There is no solution to the dilemma other than completely squelching freedom of speech and allowing only PRESENT players of ALL MMOs to comment on those games' forums. And then....how would people prove their current activity level? Just cannot be done. We all have to deal with it on all of the different game forums. It's just LIFE on MMORPG.com.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
What you say is probably not going to happen for the following reasons:
1- Ppl creat games for money, so they are going to simulate WOW, because it's obvious that the WOW way is what most ppl want.
2- Lets face it, hardcore gamers are a minority, especially now-days, whos got the time to spend that much time in a game the gives nothing in return? unless of cours, your exceptionally good- and in that case you would love WOW, because in WOW's international tournament, you can win upwards of $75,000, lol. If you think WOW is so easy, and your so good, why don't you join the tournament and make awesome money?
Skipper
LOL. Even though it would be fun, as just something else to do when you feel like just mellowing out and get away from the thick of it for a moment, that's why i love the graphics and the flying mounts, it can just take you away, but had the most fun in BG pvp.
Skipper
It's really a matter of what you comment on. I personally will not comment on any end game stuff that happened during Burning Crusade since that was a tiem where I took a long break from the game. On the other hand I feel fully justified commenting on raiding in vanilla and WotLK since I have first hand experience of that.
I think the most glaring example right now is the new LFD system. If you quit the game before it was implemented then you really should not post on how it is being used since you have no first hand knowledge of it and all you have is conjecture. Your past experience with WoW allows you to comment on how things were before the new system but give you little basis to comment on how the system changed things.
A Man to that. I recently stoped playing WOW, because this constant fight to get geared, and for those who think WOW does not have hardcore players, its become so hard to get in to good guilds now, that you have to go on their website and fill out an application. lol
Skipper
I never comment on any part of ANY game that I don't have first hand experience with, unless I qualify the comment by saying..."I have no first hand experience with this." And honestly...I cannot think of a time where I have ever had to make that qualification.
As far as WoW goes...I left after I saw the almost immediate (and negative) results of the new LFD/LFG tool on my own particular guild. It just became so easy for people to PuG all day for fast emblems, that the guild pretty much became....crafting chat. The only time people ever talked any more was when they were either farming mats or doing some quick crafting for the AH, their character, or someone else.
I always hated PuGs and a tool that would "help me" to PuG all day and night...was not a good addition for me personally.
But yes...I absolutely understand what you're saying. The problem is...some people make assumptions on when people left, or whether they still play, etc. And some people like to make negative accusations in those regards simply because they don't agree with the comment that is being made, so they attempt to discredit that person's opinion by making false accusations.
Regardless...
ON TOPIC:
I don't think anyone, that is HONEST...."hates" WoW itself. I've said this before. Many people on these boards hate the direction that WoW went with their own game, and the onslaught of copycat games that chose a similar direction thinking they were going to be able to grab a piece of the financial pie. So myself....I am not sure that I would credit Blizzard with "destroying" the genre. I think the GREED of other companies probably has more to do with the type of garbage we often see released today....but that's just my take on it.
I don't hate WoW. I don't love WoW. There are things about the game that I absolutely unequivocally enjoyed. There are other things that I loathed. For me....I just reached the conclusion that it is NOT the best MMO "fit" for ME. Other gamers' mileage may vary. I don't expect everyone to love the games that I choose to play, and I'm not sure why some WoW players are so seemingly shocked and indignant when some people don't like THEIR game of choice. I'm not sure what part of "we're all different people".....is so difficult to understand. O.o Kinda just blows my mind.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
That's not really anything new. Aren't all decent guilds like that? I mean, we did background checks and interviews for all new applicants in FFXI.
That really depends on what you mean by 'good guild'. I recently joined a very nice guild with nice people who have a good head ont heri shoulders and know how to play the game. There was no application and a very short interview process where they just verified that I understood what the guild was about. I went through the same in my previous guild which was just as 'good' but fell apart due to the guild leader taking an extended break from the game and not setting up a replacement. Of course, neither of these guilds would be considered 'competive progression' guilds so they did not have to bother with a massive screening process and were in fact willing to take in anyone who seemed like a decent person and a decent player.
Some of the WoW haters out there Remind me of ex smokers. They used to smoke 2 packs a day but now that they have quit they evangalize about the Evils of smoking. (I don't smoke but I think it is annoying) The best story I ever heard about this was that when Kim Jong Ill quit smoking he decided to make it Illegal for anyone in North Korea to smoke.
Some of the ex WoW players seem to be like that. There is a pretty standard story on these forums "I played wow for 2 years, quit, came back, quit again now I am determined to evangalize about the evils of WoW."
That is why there is so much hate, because you love it or hate it.