I take the almost the opposite view as you, OP. While the good guys may always win in most stories, the bad guys tend to dominate games like this, in terms of the image people want for their characters. People equate evil to doing whatever you please without concern for the consequences, and think that's cool.
Personally, I find the "evil" side almost always runs on flawed logic and a narrow perspective on the world - which I find ridiculous and stay away from. I tend to play on the good side when I can because not trying to be cool in that way seems to leave me being more unique anyway. Given, the good guys in the Star Wars universe can be quite short-sighted themselves and somehow extremely prone to being corrupted.
I'm going jedi consular as my first character after reading their description - they use logic and reason to find their way, not by rigidly clinging to static principles of some ancient texts, or some ambiguous, highly fallible moral code.
After that though, it appeals to me to be the more down-to-earth character - one of the non-force-using classes that doesn't have too cheesy of a characature, such as trooper or agent. Then it'd be easy to cut through all the bs and just make whatever decision you felt like without worrying about "turning".
ah, but that's the problem right there. TRUE evil DOES have regards to the consequences...and thus the art behind it.
Simply being a tyrranical child doing whatever they want is not evil...it's childishness. True evil is an art form.
If you say so . The childish take is what most players seem to gravitate toward though, which is plenty reason for me to go the other way lol.
I also pride myself on playing the good guy who knows what he's talking about and isn't easily mislead and befuddled like the classic idealistic hero tends to be (you know the one who doesn't really know right from wrong until he screws up). Maybe the later is the type the OP is trying to avoid?
If you say so . The childish take is what most players seem to gravitate toward though, which is plenty reason for me to go the other way lol.
I also pride myself on playing the good guy who knows what he's talking about and isn't easily mislead and befuddled like the classic idealistic hero tends to be (you know the one who doesn't really know right from wrong until he screws up). Maybe the later is the type the OP is trying to avoid?
the childish masses are the pawns....or fodder....used by those who know better
It is good that they flock to the Dark Side.....we have need of disposable assets.
OP, I feel you may have provoked the most interesting, at least for me, topic I've followed on this forum.
That said, It's interesting to hear peoples opinions on the matter.
I think some people were close by saying 'True evil does have regards to its consequences' etc, but thats not entirely true. A true 'SITH' has regards to its consequences. At least a good one does anyway. If your one of these people who are evil with a purpose, then Inquisitor will definately be your favoured storyline.
As for the darkside being more powerful, on average, yes it is. It's like a fighter with one arm behind his back, versus one with both arms free and with a weapon in his hands. Then you look at jedi like Mace Windu, a jedi in every sense of the word, yet so, so powerful. Stronger than Yoda even. He would've defeated Anakin AND Palpatine, purely because he was an aggressive fighting jedi. He used Vaapad, which was too aggressive for most jedi, very powerful, strong attacks.
The point is this. I think someone who follows the jedi code deserves just the same amount respect as a 'good' sith player (irony, though i mean in tactics and thought). To knowingly go into a fight with one arm behind your back because you believe its the right thing to do, is admirable. No deceit, no tricks.
It also has abit of a 'rock paper scissors' to it. Do any of you recall the battle on Tython with Master Faerfellas and his jedi companions against Bane? Abit of thought from the Ithorian jedi, put a protective shield around Bane, and he pretty much microwaved himself with lightning.
Just goes to show the darkside will only get you so far.. You need the intelligence to become truly 'good' at being bad.
Something to think about, the rule of two doesn't exist in this time. The Sith is an Empire, not a pair. So what kind of mentality will you carry? Some of Bane/Revans teachings will work, like, thought into actions etc, thinking of the consequences and stuff like that. However, your one of many. Your going to struggle to stand out amongst the others. Perhaps Sith players need a different mentality in this time period.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
Personally, I identify with the Sith Code and philosophy. I will always choose Sith.
"Peace is a Lie, there is only passion.
Through passion I gain strength.
Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory.
Through victory my chains are broken."
Exactly how I feel about it +1 The Sith know what they want and do what they have to to take it.
The Sith core philosophy is that of a sociopath. I doubt hardly anyone really identifies that much with it. I imagine it is more likely you don't fully understand exactly what the code means.
As for the darkside being more powerful, on average, yes it is. It's like a fighter with one arm behind his back, versus one with both arms free and with a weapon in his hands. Then you look at jedi like Mace Windu, a jedi in every sense of the word, yet so, so powerful. Stronger than Yoda even. He would've defeated Anakin AND Palpatine, purely because he was an aggressive fighting jedi. He used Vaapad, which was too aggressive for most jedi, very powerful, strong attacks.
Not sure why so many people in this thread think the Dark Side is stronger than the Light. It's shown and stated many times in the books and movies that it is not. It's quicker and easier. Also, Dark Siders don't have access to every aspect of the force like you seem to think. There are MANY powers that require you are not tainted by Dark Side use. The Dark Side is also highly corrupting, and inevitably twists those that use it.
The books also clearly state that Windu is NOT stronger than Yoda. They state this more than once. As for "beating the Emperor" it is unclear. Many subscribe to the idea the Emperor was just faking weakness to get Anakin on his side. Also, Yoda only lost against the Emperor due to some bad lack and the fight lasting too long. Beyond that, Mace didn't use the Dark Side at all. He skirted close to it, but never went over, that's the tricky thing about Vapaad (which is good for some people to learn, but not the best style for everyone...Yoda was better off using Ataru).
I take the almost the opposite view as you, OP. While the good guys may always win in most stories, the bad guys tend to dominate games like this, in terms of the image people want for their characters. People equate evil to doing whatever you please without concern for the consequences, and think that's cool.
Going by Sub numbers and most games seem to favor the good guys. However, to an extent it seems like the bad guys appeal to PvP players more, so evil usually has a PvP advantage. Kind of ironic really, since one of the main advantages of good is organization in real life.
Personally, I identify with the Sith Code and philosophy. I will always choose Sith.
"Peace is a Lie, there is only passion.
Through passion I gain strength.
Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory.
Through victory my chains are broken."
Exactly how I feel about it +1 The Sith know what they want and do what they have to to take it.
The Sith core philosophy is that of a sociopath. I doubt hardly anyone really identifies that much with it. I imagine it is more likely you don't fully understand exactly what the code means.
I think you might be surprised.
I find it interesting that you can't fathom that someone would actually think this way, or hold these ideals.
But then there are people in the world that I myself simply cannot understand (such as christians), so I guess I can relate, in a way.
As for being a "sociopath".....why, yes...I've been called that. It's a title I proudly wear.
Personally, I identify with the Sith Code and philosophy. I will always choose Sith.
"Peace is a Lie, there is only passion.
Through passion I gain strength.
Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory.
Through victory my chains are broken."
Exactly how I feel about it +1 The Sith know what they want and do what they have to to take it.
The Sith core philosophy is that of a sociopath. I doubt hardly anyone really identifies that much with it. I imagine it is more likely you don't fully understand exactly what the code means.
I think you might be surprised.
I find it interesting that you can't fathom that someone would actually think this way, or hold these ideals.
But then there are people in the world that I myself simply cannot understand (such as christians), so I guess I can relate, in a way.
As for being a "sociopath".....why, yes...I've been called that. It's a title I proudly wear.
I didn't say I couldn't fathom it. I said it is a viewpoint akin to a sociopath. Since sociopaths are quite rare, I said I thought it more likely that the people who identified with such a philosophy didn't actually understand it. As abhorrent as a sociopath is, I can comprehend their motivations just fine. That said, I'm not convinced you are one by any means. Statistically speaking, it is more likely you just like to sound and appear shocking than that you are a sociopath to any real degree.
I find it odd that you lump all christians together like that. It's an extremely diverse group in behavior and beliefs.
Not sure why so many people in this thread think the Dark Side is stronger than the Light. It's shown and stated many times in the books and movies that it is not. It's quicker and easier. Also, Dark Siders don't have access to every aspect of the force like you seem to think. There are MANY powers that require you are not tainted by Dark Side use. The Dark Side is also highly corrupting, and inevitably twists those that use it.
I think the reason so many people beleive that the dark side is stronger is because almost every time you see a lightsaber fight it was one sith versus two jedi. Yoda did say in the Episode 5 that the dark side wasn't stronger, just more easily selective. But it is really hard to believe that when you see Jedi Masters falling to a Sith Apprentice.
The books also clearly state that Windu is NOT stronger than Yoda. They state this more than once. As for "beating the Emperor" it is unclear. Many subscribe to the idea the Emperor was just faking weakness to get Anakin on his side. Also, Yoda only lost against the Emperor due to some bad lack and the fight lasting too long. Beyond that, Mace didn't use the Dark Side at all. He skirted close to it, but never went over, that's the tricky thing about Vapaad (which is good for some people to learn, but not the best style for everyone...Yoda was better off using Ataru).
I seem to recall Windu being the second most powerful right behind Yoda. I always had the impression that Palpatine was just toying with Windu based off his eye movement back and forth between Anakin and Windu. And really, Yoda only lost that fight to the Emporer because of sheer bad luck. They both got thrown apart after a powerful force lock and Yoda just couldn't keep his grip on the ledge. What if the Emperor had lost his grip and fallen? Would it have been a draw?
I take the almost the opposite view as you, OP. While the good guys may always win in most stories, the bad guys tend to dominate games like this, in terms of the image people want for their characters. People equate evil to doing whatever you please without concern for the consequences, and think that's cool.
Going by Sub numbers and most games seem to favor the good guys. However, to an extent it seems like the bad guys appeal to PvP players more, so evil usually has a PvP advantage. Kind of ironic really, since one of the main advantages of good is organization in real life.
I honestly hadn't examined the sub numbers for various games that offer good vs evil choices. I'll take your word for that and offer this:
In such MMO communities, even when the players choosing to align primarily with the "good" side outnumber those on the "bad" side those on the "bad" side are usually far more expressive and loyal regarding their alignment. Their faction flag-waving is usually loud enough to dominate the culture of the game.
Evil always has a greater appeal. More often than not, the bad guys "look cooler," or they do things that we can't do in real life - like eat babies and stab people in the face. It's a chance to indulge in our darker desires, even if it's just a game. That being said, there's still a pretty good balance (in most games) between good and evil factions. Frankly, Horde suffered in WoW because they didn't look cool. Simple as that. People thought the Horde races were smelly and ugly (rightly so!), so in an effort to balance the population, Blizzard gave Horde Blood Elves (OMFG MAH BLOOD ELF R SEXY I WUV THEIR TEENAGE ANOREXIC GURLZ!) and it worked like a charm. Hell, if the aesthetics didn't seal the deal, the Paladin option did, especially now that Ret is OP bullschnitzel.
Anyways, it already looks like Empire is going to be more popular in TOR. The Inquisitor, last poll I checked, had a pretty popular following, mostly because he shoots lightning out his ass and spins people around in force cyclones. Not surprising, right? What is surprising is that the Consular was not far behind, because so far, I haven't seen anything that "cool" about the Consular. I suppose people like Force-oriented classes over lightsaber-oriented ones, hence the lessened popularity of the Warrior and the Knight.
What do I care, though? I'll be too busy playing a Trooper.
Edit: And yeah, Sith aren't "just misunderstood people, they're really okay once you get to know them!". They're like Chaos in WAR40k, though just a little less demented.
Personally, I identify with the Sith Code and philosophy. I will always choose Sith.
"Peace is a Lie, there is only passion.
Through passion I gain strength.
Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory.
Through victory my chains are broken."
Exactly how I feel about it +1 The Sith know what they want and do what they have to to take it.
The Sith core philosophy is that of a sociopath. I doubt hardly anyone really identifies that much with it. I imagine it is more likely you don't fully understand exactly what the code means.
I think you might be surprised.
I find it interesting that you can't fathom that someone would actually think this way, or hold these ideals.
But then there are people in the world that I myself simply cannot understand (such as christians), so I guess I can relate, in a way.
As for being a "sociopath".....why, yes...I've been called that. It's a title I proudly wear.
I didn't say I couldn't fathom it. I said it is a viewpoint akin to a sociopath. Since sociopaths are quite rare, I said I thought it more likely that the people who identified with such a philosophy didn't actually understand it. As abhorrent as a sociopath is, I can comprehend their motivations just fine. That said, I'm not convinced you are one by any means. Statistically speaking, it is more likely you just like to sound and appear shocking than that you are a sociopath to any real degree.
I find it odd that you lump all christians together like that. It's an extremely diverse group in behavior and beliefs.
I rather expected this comment, to be honest. It is, after all, the nature of "life" on the internet to doubt the autheticity of anything at all.
Not really bothered by it though, since your opinion of me doesn't really matter anyway. THose who know me, know...those who don't know me simply don't matter
No offense.
But it does serve to illustrate a point, to a degree....you may be think that you comprehend the motivations of a sociopath....but you can't relate. You have no idea what it feels like from that point of view.
In the context of the thread topic....Darth Bane had never been a jedi....he had never been trained in the way of the light side. It was as alien to him as christianity is to me. So it was that the things he did were natural to him...he didn't know any other way, nor did he care to.
And so to him, the concept of "evil" was shaped entirely by his perception...he considered it "evil" (and disgusting) to allow weakness to exist in the Sith. Mercy and compassion were "evil" to him.
And so while you may classify him as "evil", based on the popularly accepted definition of the term.....in reality "good" and "evil" are entirely based on one's perspective.
But it does serve to illustrate a point, to a degree....you may be think that you comprehend the motivations of a sociopath....but you can't relate. You have no idea what it feels like from that point of view.
In the context of the thread topic....Darth Bane had never been a jedi....he had never been trained in the way of the light side. It was as alien to him as christianity is to me. So it was that the things he did were natural to him...he didn't know any other way, nor did he care to.
And so to him, the concept of "evil" was shaped entirely by his perception...he considered it "evil" (and disgusting) to allow weakness to exist in the Sith. Mercy and compassion were "evil" to him.
And so while you may classify him as "evil", based on the popularly accepted definition of the term.....in reality "good" and "evil" are entirely based on one's perspective.
First, it is not hard to relate to the motivations of a sociopath. They are a subset of the motivations of a normal person. It takes just a bit of imagination to envision what that is like for a normal person. That's also what makes them disturbing. Sorry, but again you seem more focused on seeming like a special flower ("oooo, I'm not a christian"....join the club), and I doubt you don't care at all about your family and have no true friends. Actual sociopaths don't flaunt their particular psychological problem as it isn't very beneficial to do so. *Yawn*
Evil in Star Wars is very objective as far as force users are concerned. The Dark Side is a very real thing with very real effects. You can debate all you want about it in real life, but in Star Wars it is much less open to debate. Those who use the Dark Side extensively are evil. Darth Bane was evil; the exact nature of why he was evil is beside the point.
As for real life, it isn't as arbitrary as some like to pretend. Ethics has a purpose and role in society and some ethical rules are objectively better than others in this sense. This is why there are universal ethical rules in across all societies such as rules against cold-blooded murder.
As for the darkside being more powerful, on average, yes it is. It's like a fighter with one arm behind his back, versus one with both arms free and with a weapon in his hands. Then you look at jedi like Mace Windu, a jedi in every sense of the word, yet so, so powerful. Stronger than Yoda even. He would've defeated Anakin AND Palpatine, purely because he was an aggressive fighting jedi. He used Vaapad, which was too aggressive for most jedi, very powerful, strong attacks.
Not sure why so many people in this thread think the Dark Side is stronger than the Light. It's shown and stated many times in the books and movies that it is not. It's quicker and easier. Also, Dark Siders don't have access to every aspect of the force like you seem to think. There are MANY powers that require you are not tainted by Dark Side use. The Dark Side is also highly corrupting, and inevitably twists those that use it.
The books also clearly state that Windu is NOT stronger than Yoda. They state this more than once. As for "beating the Emperor" it is unclear. Many subscribe to the idea the Emperor was just faking weakness to get Anakin on his side. Also, Yoda only lost against the Emperor due to some bad lack and the fight lasting too long. Beyond that, Mace didn't use the Dark Side at all. He skirted close to it, but never went over, that's the tricky thing about Vapaad (which is good for some people to learn, but not the best style for everyone...Yoda was better off using Ataru).
I'll make it clear that when I say more powerful, I mean fighting ability. I read once that he was the jedi Battle master. Yes it is a real title, it's existed often before. Palpatine lost to Windu, because Palpatine was 'not' strong enough. He was in a bad situation, he had been corned in his office. Do you really think he would've rested the fate of the Sith on Anakin's choice? I think not. He definately played Anakin, but he was the pathetic old man you saw crawl away. For example, he could've killed Windu, and then said the exact same thing to Anakin to persuade him to let him live. You may say he wouldn't have turned to the darkside but by helping a Sith lord escape the jedi? Yeah, that'll get you well on your way. It's not like Anakin hadn't scraped past the darkside before.
As for the darkside being more powerful. It's easier to get power using the darkside. I'm sure some of the strongest jedi are stronger than Sith, and yes Sith lack healing abilities, but the pain they suffer because of that, fuels their strength, as you'd know if you read the Bane series. So I see the Sith as...sprinters so to speak. They do a burst of high damage, lots of offense, but in a prolongued fight can be defeated, and worn down. Remember, the strongest jedi vs the strongest sith, the sith I'd put my money on, purely because their powers are based on 'killing' their opponents. Whereas jedi is a multitrick profession.
Yoda lost because of the environment. It was a darksiders playground, throwing those senate chairs at him.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
But it does serve to illustrate a point, to a degree....you may be think that you comprehend the motivations of a sociopath....but you can't relate. You have no idea what it feels like from that point of view.
In the context of the thread topic....Darth Bane had never been a jedi....he had never been trained in the way of the light side. It was as alien to him as christianity is to me. So it was that the things he did were natural to him...he didn't know any other way, nor did he care to.
And so to him, the concept of "evil" was shaped entirely by his perception...he considered it "evil" (and disgusting) to allow weakness to exist in the Sith. Mercy and compassion were "evil" to him.
And so while you may classify him as "evil", based on the popularly accepted definition of the term.....in reality "good" and "evil" are entirely based on one's perspective.
First, it is not hard to relate to the motivations of a sociopath. They are a subset of the motivations of a normal person. It takes just a bit of imagination to envision what that is like for a normal person. That's also what makes them disturbing. Sorry, but again you seem more focused on seeming like a special flower ("oooo, I'm not a christian"....join the club), and I doubt you don't care at all about your family and have no true friends. Actual sociopaths don't flaunt their particular psychological problem as it isn't very beneficial to do so. *Yawn*
Evil in Star Wars is very objective as far as force users are concerned. The Dark Side is a very real thing with very real effects. You can debate all you want about it in real life, but in Star Wars it is much less open to debate. Those who use the Dark Side extensively are evil. Darth Bane was evil; the exact nature of why he was evil is beside the point.
As for real life, it isn't as arbitrary as some like to pretend. Ethics has a purpose and role in society and some ethical rules are objectively better than others in this sense. This is why there are universal ethical rules in across all societies such as rules against cold-blooded murder.
Look bud, you need to stop trying to attack me personally, and stay on topic. I'm not some teenager with a rebellious image to uphold...I am what I am, and that's about it. I loooong ago stopped caring about how people percieve me. You're the one who decided to try to label me, because you simply can't understand that someone would believe as I do.
A: you don't know me
B: this once again illustrates how you FAIL to understand the mentality of someone who you would consider a "sociopath"....ie, someone who relates to the philosophy of the Sith.
The Sith code and philosophy leads to perpetual self-improvement, and personal achievement. ALL that matters is that achievement...that progress...that enhancing of oneself. Everything else is simply a means to an end, or a form of entertainment at best.
Similar to the philosophy of Ragnar Redbeard's "Might is Right", the philosophy of the Sith decrees that only the strongest are fit to rule...and the weak are to serve. It is therefore a constant goal to become ever stronger, smarter, faster, and better than the day before.
Sure...this would be considered "evil"...by the weak.
"From my point of view, the Jedi are evil" -Darth Vader.
Perspective is key. Those who are used and trodden down by the strong on their way to the top are bound to call their oppressors all kinds of names..."evil" probably being one of the mildest. But maybe some of those trodden will be motivated by their anger, and become strong themselves...now wouldn't that be something, eh??
Personally, I identify with the Sith Code and philosophy. I will always choose Sith.
"Peace is a Lie, there is only passion.
Through passion I gain strength.
Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory.
Through victory my chains are broken."
Exactly how I feel about it +1 The Sith know what they want and do what they have to to take it.
The Sith core philosophy is that of a sociopath. I doubt hardly anyone really identifies that much with it. I imagine it is more likely you don't fully understand exactly what the code means.
Sociopaths hardly...the sith aren't mental cases held back by psychological problems and cry about how daddy didnt buy them a toy for their 10th birthday and now have issues. They are driven indiviuals who are out to accomplish and succeed in all of their endeavours, the jedi are just in their way. taken from the wiki...
"The Sith saw themselves as seekers, challengers of old and stagnant ways, in touch with the laws of nature and the universe. They saw the Jedi as denying their natures and afraid of the truth around them." Yuthura Ban gave examples of the tuk'ata and sarkath hunting prey, feeding on weaker creatures. Passions were what kept all creatures—from the most rudimentary to the most evolved sentient—alive. Yuthura Ban explained this to the amnesiac Revan "To think us creatures beyond the need of simple passions is a delusion." They believed that mastery of their passions gave them strength the Jedi lacked. "The Sith desired to free themselves in order to reach perfection and fulfill their potential. They wanted perfect strength, perfect power, and perfect destiny".
I like the Sith because they are the ones who arent afraid to go their own way and take what they want. My parents tried to raise me on religion and on seeing the world through their rose colored glasses, it only made it more clear how ignorant and blind they are to the way the world really is. Im cynical, calculating and to some people stubborn, If someone wrongs me Im not afraid to get back at them. I too want to succeed and accomplish my goals, when a promotion comes I wont hestitate to do what I have to, to get it.
If that makes me a terrible person in your eyes then oh well thats who I am, Im not afraid to admit it. Its a dog eat dog world and unless your ready to become a dog you will never be anything more then a follower. so yeah I couldnt possibly relate to any of the ideas that the sith code represents.../sarcasm.
Personally, I identify with the Sith Code and philosophy. I will always choose Sith.
"Peace is a Lie, there is only passion.
Through passion I gain strength.
Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory.
Through victory my chains are broken."
Exactly how I feel about it +1 The Sith know what they want and do what they have to to take it.
The Sith core philosophy is that of a sociopath. I doubt hardly anyone really identifies that much with it. I imagine it is more likely you don't fully understand exactly what the code means.
Sociopaths hardly...the sith aren't mental cases held back by psychological problems and cry about how daddy didnt buy them a toy for their 10th birthday and now have issues. They are driven indiviuals who are out to accomplish and succeed in all of their endevours, the jedi are just in their way. taken from the wiki...
"The Sith saw themselves as seekers, challengers of old and stagnant ways, in touch with the laws of nature and the universe. They saw the Jedi as denying their natures and afraid of the truth around them." Yuthura Ban gave examples of the tuk'ata and sarkath hunting prey, feeding on weaker creatures. Passions were what kept all creatures—from the most rudimentary to the most evolved sentient—alive. Yuthura Ban explained this to the amnesiac Revan "To think us creatures beyond the need of simple passions is a delusion." They believed that mastery of their passions gave them strength the Jedi lacked. "The Sith desired to free themselves in order to reach perfection and fulfill their potential. They wanted perfect strength, perfect power, and perfect destiny".
I like the Sith because they are the ones who arent afraid to go their own way and take what they want. My parents tried to raise me on religion and on seeing the world their rose colored glasses, it only made it more clear how are ignorant and blind they are to the way the world really is. Im cynical, calculating and to some people stubborn, If someone wrongs me Im not afraid to get back at them. I too want to succeed and accomplish goals, when a promotion comes I wont hestitate to do what I have to, to get it.
If that makes me a terrible person in your eyes then oh well thats who I am, Im not afraid to admit it. Its a dog eat dog world and unless your ready to become a dog you will never be anything more then a follower. so yeah I couldnt possibly relate to any of the ideas that the sith code represents.../sarcasm.
But it does serve to illustrate a point, to a degree....you may be think that you comprehend the motivations of a sociopath....but you can't relate. You have no idea what it feels like from that point of view.
In the context of the thread topic....Darth Bane had never been a jedi....he had never been trained in the way of the light side. It was as alien to him as christianity is to me. So it was that the things he did were natural to him...he didn't know any other way, nor did he care to.
And so to him, the concept of "evil" was shaped entirely by his perception...he considered it "evil" (and disgusting) to allow weakness to exist in the Sith. Mercy and compassion were "evil" to him.
And so while you may classify him as "evil", based on the popularly accepted definition of the term.....in reality "good" and "evil" are entirely based on one's perspective.
First, it is not hard to relate to the motivations of a sociopath. They are a subset of the motivations of a normal person. It takes just a bit of imagination to envision what that is like for a normal person. That's also what makes them disturbing. Sorry, but again you seem more focused on seeming like a special flower ("oooo, I'm not a christian"....join the club), and I doubt you don't care at all about your family and have no true friends. Actual sociopaths don't flaunt their particular psychological problem as it isn't very beneficial to do so. *Yawn*
Evil in Star Wars is very objective as far as force users are concerned. The Dark Side is a very real thing with very real effects. You can debate all you want about it in real life, but in Star Wars it is much less open to debate. Those who use the Dark Side extensively are evil. Darth Bane was evil; the exact nature of why he was evil is beside the point.
As for real life, it isn't as arbitrary as some like to pretend. Ethics has a purpose and role in society and some ethical rules are objectively better than others in this sense. This is why there are universal ethical rules in across all societies such as rules against cold-blooded murder.
Look bud, you need to stop trying to attack me personally, and stay on topic. I'm not some teenager with a rebellious image to uphold...I am what I am, and that's about it. I loooong ago stopped caring about how people percieve me. You're the one who decided to try to label me, because you simply can't understand that someone would believe as I do.
A: you don't know me
B: this once again illustrates how you FAIL to understand the mentality of someone who you would consider a "sociopath"....ie, someone who relates to the philosophy of the Sith.
The Sith code and philosophy leads to perpetual self-improvement, and personal achievement. ALL that matters is that achievement...that progress...that enhancing of oneself. Everything else is simply a means to an end, or a form of entertainment at best.
Similar to the philosophy of Ragnar Redbeard's "Might is Right", the philosophy of the Sith decrees that only the strongest are fit to rule...and the weak are to serve. It is therefore a constant goal to become ever stronger, smarter, faster, and better than the day before.
Sure...this would be considered "evil"...by the weak.
"From my point of view, the Jedi are evil" -Darth Vader.
Perspective is key. Those who are used and trodden down by the strong on their way to the top are bound to call their oppressors all kinds of names..."evil" probably being one of the mildest. But maybe some of those trodden will be motivated by their anger, and become strong themselves...now wouldn't that be something, eh??
I don't know you, but I know that a real sociopath or someone who really believed other people were only good as a means to an end wouldn't advertise this fact. Well, assuming they are smart. I admit I am assuming you aren't an idiot here, and perhaps I am mistaken. I detect some intelligence though, so I think I am fairly safe. As such, it is not in your own best interests to advertise that you use people as that makes people harder to use. It's a pretty simple concept. That's why actual sociopaths are really good at getting people to like them. It makes people a lot easier to use and that makes it easier to improve yourself, your status, etc. Heck, Palpatine shows himself quite capable of this in the movies (one of the few things done well in the prequels). This is not an attack on you. I'm just pointing out a logical inconsistency. It's no different than if you said you believed the sun was yellow and I pointed out that was incorrect.
And I'm well acquainted with the misguided notion of moral relativism which you seem to be invoking. Perspective matters for individuals and their motivations, sure, but that doesn't mean that there's no objective truth or reality. "Might makes right" is a bad moral code because it HURTS society and in the long run that hurts everyone (though some of the pain might happen after society has a full population turnover).
So yeah, I think most people that identify with the Sith are doing so as some sort of wish fulfillment. The same way people have identified with flashy criminals in the past. It superficially looks and sounds cool.
Edit: Anyhow, it is cool to some people to pretend they don't care about anything except themselves. Usually that makes them jerks, and they are also usually wrong. Whether it is mom, dad, a sibling, another relative, a best friend, a girlfriend, a pet...the vast, vast, vast majority of the population forms emotional bonds and worst case scenario when push comes to shove those bonds show through. The people that can't/don't do this are sociopaths.
Personally, I identify with the Sith Code and philosophy. I will always choose Sith.
"Peace is a Lie, there is only passion.
Through passion I gain strength.
Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory.
Through victory my chains are broken."
Exactly how I feel about it +1 The Sith know what they want and do what they have to to take it.
The Sith core philosophy is that of a sociopath. I doubt hardly anyone really identifies that much with it. I imagine it is more likely you don't fully understand exactly what the code means.
Sociopaths hardly...the sith aren't mental cases held back by psychological problems and cry about how daddy didnt buy them a toy for their 10th birthday and now have issues. They are driven indiviuals who are out to accomplish and succeed in all of their endeavours, the jedi are just in their way. taken from the wiki...
Eh, you don't know what a sociopath is. Look it up.
Though, I am using the term a little loosely here. Obviously Sith are capable of long-term planning and are better at recognizing the consequences of their actions than standard sociopaths.
But it does serve to illustrate a point, to a degree....you may be think that you comprehend the motivations of a sociopath....but you can't relate. You have no idea what it feels like from that point of view.
In the context of the thread topic....Darth Bane had never been a jedi....he had never been trained in the way of the light side. It was as alien to him as christianity is to me. So it was that the things he did were natural to him...he didn't know any other way, nor did he care to.
And so to him, the concept of "evil" was shaped entirely by his perception...he considered it "evil" (and disgusting) to allow weakness to exist in the Sith. Mercy and compassion were "evil" to him.
And so while you may classify him as "evil", based on the popularly accepted definition of the term.....in reality "good" and "evil" are entirely based on one's perspective.
First, it is not hard to relate to the motivations of a sociopath. They are a subset of the motivations of a normal person. It takes just a bit of imagination to envision what that is like for a normal person. That's also what makes them disturbing. Sorry, but again you seem more focused on seeming like a special flower ("oooo, I'm not a christian"....join the club), and I doubt you don't care at all about your family and have no true friends. Actual sociopaths don't flaunt their particular psychological problem as it isn't very beneficial to do so. *Yawn*
Evil in Star Wars is very objective as far as force users are concerned. The Dark Side is a very real thing with very real effects. You can debate all you want about it in real life, but in Star Wars it is much less open to debate. Those who use the Dark Side extensively are evil. Darth Bane was evil; the exact nature of why he was evil is beside the point.
As for real life, it isn't as arbitrary as some like to pretend. Ethics has a purpose and role in society and some ethical rules are objectively better than others in this sense. This is why there are universal ethical rules in across all societies such as rules against cold-blooded murder.
Look bud, you need to stop trying to attack me personally, and stay on topic. I'm not some teenager with a rebellious image to uphold...I am what I am, and that's about it. I loooong ago stopped caring about how people percieve me. You're the one who decided to try to label me, because you simply can't understand that someone would believe as I do.
A: you don't know me
B: this once again illustrates how you FAIL to understand the mentality of someone who you would consider a "sociopath"....ie, someone who relates to the philosophy of the Sith.
The Sith code and philosophy leads to perpetual self-improvement, and personal achievement. ALL that matters is that achievement...that progress...that enhancing of oneself. Everything else is simply a means to an end, or a form of entertainment at best.
Similar to the philosophy of Ragnar Redbeard's "Might is Right", the philosophy of the Sith decrees that only the strongest are fit to rule...and the weak are to serve. It is therefore a constant goal to become ever stronger, smarter, faster, and better than the day before.
Sure...this would be considered "evil"...by the weak.
"From my point of view, the Jedi are evil" -Darth Vader.
Perspective is key. Those who are used and trodden down by the strong on their way to the top are bound to call their oppressors all kinds of names..."evil" probably being one of the mildest. But maybe some of those trodden will be motivated by their anger, and become strong themselves...now wouldn't that be something, eh??
I don't know you, but I know that a real sociopath or someone who really believed other people were only good as a means to an end wouldn't advertise this fact. Well, assuming they are smart. I admit I am assuming you aren't an idiot here, and perhaps I am mistaken. I detect some intelligence though, so I think I am fairly safe. As such, it is not in your own best interests to advertise that you use people as that makes people harder to use. It's a pretty simple concept. That's why actual sociopaths are really good at getting people to like them. It makes people a lot easier to use and that makes it easier to improve yourself, your status, etc. Heck, Palpatine shows himself quite capable of this in the movies (one of the few things done well in the prequels). This is not an attack on you. I'm just pointing out a logical inconsistency. It's no different than if you said you believed the sun was yellow and I pointed out that was incorrect.
And I'm well acquainted with the misguided notion of moral relativism which you seem to be invoking. Perspective matters for individuals and their motivations, sure, but that doesn't mean that there's no objective truth or reality. "Might makes right" is a bad moral code because it HURTS society and in the long run that hurts everyone (though some of the pain might happen after society has a full population turnover).
So yeah, I think most people that identify with the Sith are doing so as some sort of wish fulfillment. The same way people have identified with flashy criminals in the past. It superficially looks and sounds cool.
I'm on an internet forum with absolutely no link to my RL name. I'm not too worried about people finding out what kind of person I am.
Certain people in my real life know me for who I am anyway...and when they get manipulated or used, I explain to them how their failings allowed it to happen. They know me, and expect no less. I don't expect them to "like me" for it, and really just don't care. The thing is, if they learn from the experience, then that is one or more people in the world who strive to be strong, and aren't so trusting of other people. Either that or they accept their place and fall into line.
Might Makes Right is far better for humanity than allowing...and even ENCOURAGING those who are a burden on the race to live and breed. They are a ball and chain on the progress of humanity.
The jedi, with their philosophy, defend and perpetuate this weakness. What they fail to realise is that they only weaken themselves by doing so, and if allowed to exist long enough these weak, sick, worthless defects of life will pollute and weaken the entire galaxy. It's DE-evolution.
I agree that many flock to the Sith characters and Dark Side in Star Wars because it's "cool" to be the "bad guy". But these people don't really understand the philosophy of the Sith, or really identify with it. And they have their place as well....as I've said, we need disposable assets.
Edit: Anyhow, it is cool to some people to pretend they don't care about anything except themselves. Usually that makes them jerks, and they are also usually wrong. Whether it is mom, dad, a sibling, another relative, a best friend, a girlfriend, a pet...the vast, vast, vast majority of the population forms emotional bonds and worst case scenario when push comes to shove those bonds show through. The people that can't/don't do this are sociopaths.
To address your edit...
Yes, I can see that to some degree how someone who identifies with the Sith philosophy could be considered sociopathic. But the difference here is that we CHOOSE to eliminate emotional bonds from your lives. We discard our friends, distance ourselves from family. Only those we deem worthy of our time are allowed to enter our lives, and even then they're not allowed too close, or to get in the way of our goals. As soon as the inconvenience of their company outweighs the their usefullness, they are eliminated.
Most people can't understand this. They need companionship, and emotional attatchments. Humans are social animals by nature, and only the strongest can overcome this need and eliminate this weakness from themselves.
Eh, you don't know what a sociopath is. Look it up.
So what definition are you working with? It seems everyone else in this thread isn't able to match your definition. I identify with the Sith, yet i don't consider myself a psyco or sociopath.
Acvivm and Wharg0ul i think have done a fine job explaining it already and i agree with them.
Why would you want to play a 'good' sith? Doesn't that sort of defeat the object of being one? You can't draw parallels to rl as it is a clearly defined story, similar to comics no? The relative terms to draw those lines between good and evil are removed for the benifit of the story. Sith's are evil, that's the point. At least that's my view, I persnoally will be playing an undercover jedi infiltrating the sith by killing everything he see's in an effort to further understand the truth behind the sith nature, the twist is he has a split personality and while his alternative persona is predominant he is a Bounty hunter. One day he will assasinate himself and it will be glorius, perma death ftw.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Eh, you don't know what a sociopath is. Look it up.
So what definition are you working with? It seems everyone else in this thread isn't able to match your definition. I identify with the Sith, yet i don't consider myself a psyco or sociopath.
Acvivm and Wharg0ul i think have done a fine job explaining it already and i agree with them.
How they identify themselves is sociopathic. I don't think they actually are in real life, mind you, as very, very, very few people are like that, and fewer still are the exact sort of sociopaths like the Sith are. They clearly idealize the idea of independence among other things though. However, I suppose it is useful since Rule of Two (and some other) Sith demonstrate similar hypocrisy in declaring they only care about themselves and then going on to have pupils or others that they "teach." This is actually best viewed as mental illness. Rule of Two Sith are perhaps a kind of narcissist (with a bit of psychopathy) whereas the traditional Sith Rules and what constantly destroyed the Sith are the declaration of a system of sociopathy (or psychopathy if you prefer) that valued the self highly and all other things as a means towards advancing the self. As the Star Wars universe correctly demonstrates, on the societal level this is a deeply self-destructive philosophy that repeatedly allowed the Sith to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Of course, everyone has an element of selfishness, but far from being more human than the Jedi the Sith discard many distinctly human attributes such as love and other emotions. Later the Jedi did the same in an ascetic manner (which is far healthier psychological speaking), but for most of the history of the Jedi they were allowed to love, marry, have children, etc. To say nothing of how they were capable of forming friendships and the like and maintaining connections with their family. Indeed, Luke revives these more humanistic traditions of the Jedi in his New Jedi Order. Frankly, outside of superficial flights of fancy the Sith philosophy would not appeal to the vast, vast majority of humanity throughout time. Of course, ToR is a game so it will let some people live out those fantasies in much the same way the Grand Theft Auto games do.
Of course, who knows which ones of you guys actually believe what you saying, actually practice it, and/or are just doing a little role-playing on the forums? Statistically speaking though, the chance that there are three psychopaths in this thread is ludicrously remote, so I remain skeptical.
Anyhow, I define it the same way psychologists and psychiatrists define it. I said that person didn't know what it was because he made a remark indicating he doesn't understand the origin of the kind of sociopathy we are discussing. In fact, I don't think he understands much about mental illness based on what he said and sociopathy is merely one example of that lack of understanding.
More details on the standards I am using:
Factor 1 Psychopathy:
Aggressive narcissism
Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Emotionally shallow
Callous/lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
I emphasized the ones that are clearly being advocated here. Of course the Sith pretty much light up the whole list. So primary psychopaths like this characterize the Sith pretty darn well. (As for terms in many, many cases psychopathy and sociopathy are used interchangably. I certainly use them that way though there are some psychologists that disagree with that).
Comments
ah, but that's the problem right there. TRUE evil DOES have regards to the consequences...and thus the art behind it.
Simply being a tyrranical child doing whatever they want is not evil...it's childishness. True evil is an art form.
If you say so
. The childish take is what most players seem to gravitate toward though, which is plenty reason for me to go the other way lol.
I also pride myself on playing the good guy who knows what he's talking about and isn't easily mislead and befuddled like the classic idealistic hero tends to be (you know the one who doesn't really know right from wrong until he screws up). Maybe the later is the type the OP is trying to avoid?
the childish masses are the pawns....or fodder....used by those who know better
It is good that they flock to the Dark Side.....we have need of disposable assets.
OP, I feel you may have provoked the most interesting, at least for me, topic I've followed on this forum.
That said, It's interesting to hear peoples opinions on the matter.
I think some people were close by saying 'True evil does have regards to its consequences' etc, but thats not entirely true. A true 'SITH' has regards to its consequences. At least a good one does anyway. If your one of these people who are evil with a purpose, then Inquisitor will definately be your favoured storyline.
As for the darkside being more powerful, on average, yes it is. It's like a fighter with one arm behind his back, versus one with both arms free and with a weapon in his hands. Then you look at jedi like Mace Windu, a jedi in every sense of the word, yet so, so powerful. Stronger than Yoda even. He would've defeated Anakin AND Palpatine, purely because he was an aggressive fighting jedi. He used Vaapad, which was too aggressive for most jedi, very powerful, strong attacks.
The point is this. I think someone who follows the jedi code deserves just the same amount respect as a 'good' sith player (irony, though i mean in tactics and thought). To knowingly go into a fight with one arm behind your back because you believe its the right thing to do, is admirable. No deceit, no tricks.
It also has abit of a 'rock paper scissors' to it. Do any of you recall the battle on Tython with Master Faerfellas and his jedi companions against Bane? Abit of thought from the Ithorian jedi, put a protective shield around Bane, and he pretty much microwaved himself with lightning.
Just goes to show the darkside will only get you so far.. You need the intelligence to become truly 'good' at being bad.
Something to think about, the rule of two doesn't exist in this time. The Sith is an Empire, not a pair. So what kind of mentality will you carry? Some of Bane/Revans teachings will work, like, thought into actions etc, thinking of the consequences and stuff like that. However, your one of many. Your going to struggle to stand out amongst the others. Perhaps Sith players need a different mentality in this time period.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
The Sith core philosophy is that of a sociopath. I doubt hardly anyone really identifies that much with it. I imagine it is more likely you don't fully understand exactly what the code means.
Not sure why so many people in this thread think the Dark Side is stronger than the Light. It's shown and stated many times in the books and movies that it is not. It's quicker and easier. Also, Dark Siders don't have access to every aspect of the force like you seem to think. There are MANY powers that require you are not tainted by Dark Side use. The Dark Side is also highly corrupting, and inevitably twists those that use it.
The books also clearly state that Windu is NOT stronger than Yoda. They state this more than once. As for "beating the Emperor" it is unclear. Many subscribe to the idea the Emperor was just faking weakness to get Anakin on his side. Also, Yoda only lost against the Emperor due to some bad lack and the fight lasting too long. Beyond that, Mace didn't use the Dark Side at all. He skirted close to it, but never went over, that's the tricky thing about Vapaad (which is good for some people to learn, but not the best style for everyone...Yoda was better off using Ataru).
Going by Sub numbers and most games seem to favor the good guys. However, to an extent it seems like the bad guys appeal to PvP players more, so evil usually has a PvP advantage. Kind of ironic really, since one of the main advantages of good is organization in real life.
I think you might be surprised.
I find it interesting that you can't fathom that someone would actually think this way, or hold these ideals.
But then there are people in the world that I myself simply cannot understand (such as christians), so I guess I can relate, in a way.
As for being a "sociopath".....why, yes...I've been called that. It's a title I proudly wear.
I didn't say I couldn't fathom it. I said it is a viewpoint akin to a sociopath. Since sociopaths are quite rare, I said I thought it more likely that the people who identified with such a philosophy didn't actually understand it. As abhorrent as a sociopath is, I can comprehend their motivations just fine. That said, I'm not convinced you are one by any means. Statistically speaking, it is more likely you just like to sound and appear shocking than that you are a sociopath to any real degree.
I find it odd that you lump all christians together like that. It's an extremely diverse group in behavior and beliefs.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I honestly hadn't examined the sub numbers for various games that offer good vs evil choices. I'll take your word for that and offer this:
In such MMO communities, even when the players choosing to align primarily with the "good" side outnumber those on the "bad" side those on the "bad" side are usually far more expressive and loyal regarding their alignment. Their faction flag-waving is usually loud enough to dominate the culture of the game.
Eat Babies NOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM
I rather expected this comment, to be honest. It is, after all, the nature of "life" on the internet to doubt the autheticity of anything at all.
Not really bothered by it though, since your opinion of me doesn't really matter anyway. THose who know me, know...those who don't know me simply don't matter
No offense.
But it does serve to illustrate a point, to a degree....you may be think that you comprehend the motivations of a sociopath....but you can't relate. You have no idea what it feels like from that point of view.
In the context of the thread topic....Darth Bane had never been a jedi....he had never been trained in the way of the light side. It was as alien to him as christianity is to me. So it was that the things he did were natural to him...he didn't know any other way, nor did he care to.
And so to him, the concept of "evil" was shaped entirely by his perception...he considered it "evil" (and disgusting) to allow weakness to exist in the Sith. Mercy and compassion were "evil" to him.
And so while you may classify him as "evil", based on the popularly accepted definition of the term.....in reality "good" and "evil" are entirely based on one's perspective.
First, it is not hard to relate to the motivations of a sociopath. They are a subset of the motivations of a normal person. It takes just a bit of imagination to envision what that is like for a normal person. That's also what makes them disturbing. Sorry, but again you seem more focused on seeming like a special flower ("oooo, I'm not a christian"....join the club), and I doubt you don't care at all about your family and have no true friends. Actual sociopaths don't flaunt their particular psychological problem as it isn't very beneficial to do so. *Yawn*
Evil in Star Wars is very objective as far as force users are concerned. The Dark Side is a very real thing with very real effects. You can debate all you want about it in real life, but in Star Wars it is much less open to debate. Those who use the Dark Side extensively are evil. Darth Bane was evil; the exact nature of why he was evil is beside the point.
As for real life, it isn't as arbitrary as some like to pretend. Ethics has a purpose and role in society and some ethical rules are objectively better than others in this sense. This is why there are universal ethical rules in across all societies such as rules against cold-blooded murder.
I'll make it clear that when I say more powerful, I mean fighting ability. I read once that he was the jedi Battle master. Yes it is a real title, it's existed often before. Palpatine lost to Windu, because Palpatine was 'not' strong enough. He was in a bad situation, he had been corned in his office. Do you really think he would've rested the fate of the Sith on Anakin's choice? I think not. He definately played Anakin, but he was the pathetic old man you saw crawl away. For example, he could've killed Windu, and then said the exact same thing to Anakin to persuade him to let him live. You may say he wouldn't have turned to the darkside but by helping a Sith lord escape the jedi? Yeah, that'll get you well on your way. It's not like Anakin hadn't scraped past the darkside before.
As for the darkside being more powerful. It's easier to get power using the darkside. I'm sure some of the strongest jedi are stronger than Sith, and yes Sith lack healing abilities, but the pain they suffer because of that, fuels their strength, as you'd know if you read the Bane series. So I see the Sith as...sprinters so to speak. They do a burst of high damage, lots of offense, but in a prolongued fight can be defeated, and worn down. Remember, the strongest jedi vs the strongest sith, the sith I'd put my money on, purely because their powers are based on 'killing' their opponents. Whereas jedi is a multitrick profession.
Yoda lost because of the environment. It was a darksiders playground, throwing those senate chairs at him.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
Look bud, you need to stop trying to attack me personally, and stay on topic. I'm not some teenager with a rebellious image to uphold...I am what I am, and that's about it. I loooong ago stopped caring about how people percieve me. You're the one who decided to try to label me, because you simply can't understand that someone would believe as I do.
A: you don't know me
B: this once again illustrates how you FAIL to understand the mentality of someone who you would consider a "sociopath"....ie, someone who relates to the philosophy of the Sith.
The Sith code and philosophy leads to perpetual self-improvement, and personal achievement. ALL that matters is that achievement...that progress...that enhancing of oneself. Everything else is simply a means to an end, or a form of entertainment at best.
Similar to the philosophy of Ragnar Redbeard's "Might is Right", the philosophy of the Sith decrees that only the strongest are fit to rule...and the weak are to serve. It is therefore a constant goal to become ever stronger, smarter, faster, and better than the day before.
Sure...this would be considered "evil"...by the weak.
"From my point of view, the Jedi are evil" -Darth Vader.
Perspective is key. Those who are used and trodden down by the strong on their way to the top are bound to call their oppressors all kinds of names..."evil" probably being one of the mildest. But maybe some of those trodden will be motivated by their anger, and become strong themselves...now wouldn't that be something, eh??
Sociopaths hardly...the sith aren't mental cases held back by psychological problems and cry about how daddy didnt buy them a toy for their 10th birthday and now have issues. They are driven indiviuals who are out to accomplish and succeed in all of their endeavours, the jedi are just in their way. taken from the wiki...
"The Sith saw themselves as seekers, challengers of old and stagnant ways, in touch with the laws of nature and the universe. They saw the Jedi as denying their natures and afraid of the truth around them." Yuthura Ban gave examples of the tuk'ata and sarkath hunting prey, feeding on weaker creatures. Passions were what kept all creatures—from the most rudimentary to the most evolved sentient—alive. Yuthura Ban explained this to the amnesiac Revan "To think us creatures beyond the need of simple passions is a delusion." They believed that mastery of their passions gave them strength the Jedi lacked. "The Sith desired to free themselves in order to reach perfection and fulfill their potential. They wanted perfect strength, perfect power, and perfect destiny".
I like the Sith because they are the ones who arent afraid to go their own way and take what they want. My parents tried to raise me on religion and on seeing the world through their rose colored glasses, it only made it more clear how ignorant and blind they are to the way the world really is. Im cynical, calculating and to some people stubborn, If someone wrongs me Im not afraid to get back at them. I too want to succeed and accomplish my goals, when a promotion comes I wont hestitate to do what I have to, to get it.
If that makes me a terrible person in your eyes then oh well thats who I am, Im not afraid to admit it. Its a dog eat dog world and unless your ready to become a dog you will never be anything more then a follower. so yeah I couldnt possibly relate to any of the ideas that the sith code represents.../sarcasm.
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
This. Can I get an "amen"?!!?!
I don't know you, but I know that a real sociopath or someone who really believed other people were only good as a means to an end wouldn't advertise this fact. Well, assuming they are smart. I admit I am assuming you aren't an idiot here, and perhaps I am mistaken. I detect some intelligence though, so I think I am fairly safe. As such, it is not in your own best interests to advertise that you use people as that makes people harder to use. It's a pretty simple concept. That's why actual sociopaths are really good at getting people to like them. It makes people a lot easier to use and that makes it easier to improve yourself, your status, etc. Heck, Palpatine shows himself quite capable of this in the movies (one of the few things done well in the prequels). This is not an attack on you. I'm just pointing out a logical inconsistency. It's no different than if you said you believed the sun was yellow and I pointed out that was incorrect.
And I'm well acquainted with the misguided notion of moral relativism which you seem to be invoking. Perspective matters for individuals and their motivations, sure, but that doesn't mean that there's no objective truth or reality. "Might makes right" is a bad moral code because it HURTS society and in the long run that hurts everyone (though some of the pain might happen after society has a full population turnover).
So yeah, I think most people that identify with the Sith are doing so as some sort of wish fulfillment. The same way people have identified with flashy criminals in the past. It superficially looks and sounds cool.
Edit: Anyhow, it is cool to some people to pretend they don't care about anything except themselves. Usually that makes them jerks, and they are also usually wrong. Whether it is mom, dad, a sibling, another relative, a best friend, a girlfriend, a pet...the vast, vast, vast majority of the population forms emotional bonds and worst case scenario when push comes to shove those bonds show through. The people that can't/don't do this are sociopaths.
Eh, you don't know what a sociopath is. Look it up.
Though, I am using the term a little loosely here. Obviously Sith are capable of long-term planning and are better at recognizing the consequences of their actions than standard sociopaths.
I'm on an internet forum with absolutely no link to my RL name. I'm not too worried about people finding out what kind of person I am.
Certain people in my real life know me for who I am anyway...and when they get manipulated or used, I explain to them how their failings allowed it to happen. They know me, and expect no less. I don't expect them to "like me" for it, and really just don't care. The thing is, if they learn from the experience, then that is one or more people in the world who strive to be strong, and aren't so trusting of other people. Either that or they accept their place and fall into line.
Might Makes Right is far better for humanity than allowing...and even ENCOURAGING those who are a burden on the race to live and breed. They are a ball and chain on the progress of humanity.
The jedi, with their philosophy, defend and perpetuate this weakness. What they fail to realise is that they only weaken themselves by doing so, and if allowed to exist long enough these weak, sick, worthless defects of life will pollute and weaken the entire galaxy. It's DE-evolution.
I agree that many flock to the Sith characters and Dark Side in Star Wars because it's "cool" to be the "bad guy". But these people don't really understand the philosophy of the Sith, or really identify with it. And they have their place as well....as I've said, we need disposable assets.
To address your edit...
Yes, I can see that to some degree how someone who identifies with the Sith philosophy could be considered sociopathic. But the difference here is that we CHOOSE to eliminate emotional bonds from your lives. We discard our friends, distance ourselves from family. Only those we deem worthy of our time are allowed to enter our lives, and even then they're not allowed too close, or to get in the way of our goals. As soon as the inconvenience of their company outweighs the their usefullness, they are eliminated.
Most people can't understand this. They need companionship, and emotional attatchments. Humans are social animals by nature, and only the strongest can overcome this need and eliminate this weakness from themselves.
So what definition are you working with? It seems everyone else in this thread isn't able to match your definition. I identify with the Sith, yet i don't consider myself a psyco or sociopath.
Acvivm and Wharg0ul i think have done a fine job explaining it already and i agree with them.
Why would you want to play a 'good' sith? Doesn't that sort of defeat the object of being one? You can't draw parallels to rl as it is a clearly defined story, similar to comics no? The relative terms to draw those lines between good and evil are removed for the benifit of the story. Sith's are evil, that's the point. At least that's my view, I persnoally will be playing an undercover jedi infiltrating the sith by killing everything he see's in an effort to further understand the truth behind the sith nature, the twist is he has a split personality and while his alternative persona is predominant he is a Bounty hunter. One day he will assasinate himself and it will be glorius, perma death ftw.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
How they identify themselves is sociopathic. I don't think they actually are in real life, mind you, as very, very, very few people are like that, and fewer still are the exact sort of sociopaths like the Sith are. They clearly idealize the idea of independence among other things though. However, I suppose it is useful since Rule of Two (and some other) Sith demonstrate similar hypocrisy in declaring they only care about themselves and then going on to have pupils or others that they "teach." This is actually best viewed as mental illness. Rule of Two Sith are perhaps a kind of narcissist (with a bit of psychopathy) whereas the traditional Sith Rules and what constantly destroyed the Sith are the declaration of a system of sociopathy (or psychopathy if you prefer) that valued the self highly and all other things as a means towards advancing the self. As the Star Wars universe correctly demonstrates, on the societal level this is a deeply self-destructive philosophy that repeatedly allowed the Sith to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Of course, everyone has an element of selfishness, but far from being more human than the Jedi the Sith discard many distinctly human attributes such as love and other emotions. Later the Jedi did the same in an ascetic manner (which is far healthier psychological speaking), but for most of the history of the Jedi they were allowed to love, marry, have children, etc. To say nothing of how they were capable of forming friendships and the like and maintaining connections with their family. Indeed, Luke revives these more humanistic traditions of the Jedi in his New Jedi Order. Frankly, outside of superficial flights of fancy the Sith philosophy would not appeal to the vast, vast majority of humanity throughout time. Of course, ToR is a game so it will let some people live out those fantasies in much the same way the Grand Theft Auto games do.
Of course, who knows which ones of you guys actually believe what you saying, actually practice it, and/or are just doing a little role-playing on the forums? Statistically speaking though, the chance that there are three psychopaths in this thread is ludicrously remote, so I remain skeptical.
Anyhow, I define it the same way psychologists and psychiatrists define it. I said that person didn't know what it was because he made a remark indicating he doesn't understand the origin of the kind of sociopathy we are discussing. In fact, I don't think he understands much about mental illness based on what he said and sociopathy is merely one example of that lack of understanding.
More details on the standards I am using:
Factor 1 Psychopathy:
Aggressive narcissism
Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Emotionally shallow
Callous/lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
I emphasized the ones that are clearly being advocated here. Of course the Sith pretty much light up the whole list. So primary psychopaths like this characterize the Sith pretty darn well. (As for terms in many, many cases psychopathy and sociopathy are used interchangably. I certainly use them that way though there are some psychologists that disagree with that).