MP Regen - Not even while out of combat?

deadline527

I remember reading somewhere in a forum post that once MP is gone you basically have to head back to town to refresh it? Something along them lines. They said that MP will not regen even when out of combat.. That really worries me.

I was hoping for a group based game where you can find a good camp deep in a dungeon, break the spawn in whatever room you want, and pull mobs from everywhere while talking with the group and just having a good time to level up.

If its true that MP will not regenerate on its own, then the gameplay will basically be doing guildleve after guildleve constantly as the only way to progress. Sort of like how leveling in WoW was just pointless quest after quest. I really hope this is wrong though.

I'm under the impression guildleves are basically quests, and they will be the primary way of leveling? Please tell me this isnt true.. 

Arezon

That is really weird not to have MP regen. If they really want people in town more they need more reasons for people to be there. That is just odd and seems like an annoyance to have to go back to town every time to fill up.

Satimasu

They also said that there will be a way to recover MP through abilities. Also, I'm sure there will be plenty of items or even food that could give the effect. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

MMO_Doubter

Having no MP regen sounds good to me. A bit like memorizing spells in D&D - only you have to go back to town to recover them, rather than sleeping for hours (which would be unworkable in an MMORPG).

Having a limit on a valuable resources makes you THINK before casting - should I burn these MP here, or wait for a more important use?

It probably WON'T turn out this way, as MMOs are trending more and more to the stupid player, but it is a cause for hope.

MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Satimasu

They also said that there will be a way to recover MP through abilities. Also, I'm sure there will be plenty of items or even food that could give the effect. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

MP regen items - like from a cash shop?

:P

Chuckanar

 I like it. Stops botters in a way. they cant just keep going forever with sit or such for MP. they will have to go back to town.

MNZeba

There are going to be spells that don't require MP

Hyanmen

Originally posted by deadline527

I remember reading somewhere in a forum post that once MP is gone you basically have to head back to town to refresh it? Something along them lines. They said that MP will not regen even when out of combat.. That really worries me.

I was hoping for a group based game where you can find a good camp deep in a dungeon, break the spawn in whatever room you want, and pull mobs from everywhere while talking with the group and just having a good time to level up.

If its true that MP will not regenerate on its own, then the gameplay will basically be doing guildleve after guildleve constantly as the only way to progress. Sort of like how leveling in WoW was just pointless quest after quest. I really hope this is wrong though.

I'm under the impression guildleves are basically quests, and they will be the primary way of leveling? Please tell me this isnt true.. 

Yes, that is correct. You can't regain MP through resting, only by several abilities, items, and Aetheral nodes scattered throughout the land.

The point of this system is to not make players camp in just one spot, but move in a wider area while killing groups of monsters. Basically from one Aetheral node to another. The point is not to discourage grouping, only staying in one spot for hours and pulling mobs one by one. 

So, one strategic element to the game is keeping your mp supply as high as possible while trying to survive to the next node, or to the end of the guildleve. There are few elements to ease the problems that may rise however: 

1. When you're not fighting, your hp regens at a pretty fast rate. However, while being in this "passive" mode, your TP (points used to use skills) deplete at a fast rate too. 

2. There are some spells that do not require MP to use, so if you run out of MP you're not useless.

3. There are skills that restore MP by absorbing it from dead monsters.

 

Also, there are 5 ranks of guildleves, with only the first (and easiest) rank being for soloers. Ranks 2 through 5 are for bigger and bigger groups, ending at rank 5 with leves for 15 people. You'll be soloing only a small fraction of the time, if you don't actually want to solo and avoid grouping leves. 

This game is still not a soloing game, although such elements have been implemented.

EDIT: here are the ranks

 

* -  - A Lone Fighting Force , (solo)

** -  - An Elite Few , (below 6 members)

*** -  - Recommended Party Size, (6-8 party)

**** -  - A Great Army *lit. 1,000 Units & 10,000 Horses* , (9+ members)

***** -  - A Vertiable Ocean of People  (~ 15 members)

deadline527

Guess my fears were there for a reason then. Damn.

I actually enjoy the games where ya find a challenging camp that only the best groups can handle and stay there for a while. I see their point, but sadly they are moving MMORPGs in the direction of constantly moving, fast paced, fighting games. I fear with this system people will be rushing from node to node, killing as fast as possible, and very little socializing will actually occur, which means also very little roleplaying. To me a at least, the downtime while regenerating is just as important as the other aspects of the game.  Its there where friendships are formed, and people talk to eachother and roleplay as their characters.

So I guess there will be no getting a group together, going to your favorite dungeon, and just killing stuff at your own pace with a bunch people? Instead you will be required to be doing a guildleve in order to progress at all?

I guess I was just really hoping it to be a better looking version of FFXI, but like they said, they want to make this game more casual friendly with constant guildleves telling you exactly how to and where to progress.

svann

Originally posted by Chuckanar

 I like it. Stops botters in a way. they cant just keep going forever with sit or such for MP. they will have to go back to town.

 Fortunately they have abilities that will renew your MP.  If it was like you say then the game could not be designed as a camping spawns game and would need to be designed purely as a missions game.

Hyanmen

Originally posted by deadline527

Guess my fears were there for a reason then. Damn.

I actually enjoy the games where ya find a challenging camp that only the best groups can handle and stay there for a while. I see their point, but sadly they are moving MMORPGs in the direction of constantly moving, fast paced, fighting games. I fear with this system people will be rushing from node to node, killing as fast as possible, and very little socializing will actually occur, which means also very little roleplaying. To me a at least, the downtime while regenerating is just as important as the other aspects of the game.  Its there where friendships are formed, and people talk to eachother and roleplay as their characters.

So I guess there will be no getting a group together, going to your favorite dungeon, and just killing stuff at your own pace with a bunch people? Instead you will be required to be doing a guildleve in order to progress at all?

I guess I was just really hoping it to be a better looking version of FFXI, but like they said, they want to make this game more casual friendly with constant guildleves telling you exactly how to and where to progress.

There is downtime, since when the fight is over, you sheathe your weapon and rest for hp. At least after a few battles, so you won't run out of MP because you have to heal too much.

Some games become more fast paced, but XIV is still a slow paced game. The fights may be more hectic due to more mobs being on the screen, but it's still not twitch based where you don't have to cooperate with other people at all.

I don't see why a guildleve wouldn't have a goal where you go to a dungeon and progress at your own pace with a bunch of people. Of course you can do the same thing without a guildleve, but what's the point in that? I'm sure you'll be able to do it though. Just doesn't make much sense.

Yeah, its not JUST a better looking version of FFXI (thank god for that). But if 1/5th of the game is casual friendly that really makes the whole game easy does it? 

It only sounds like you don't want any change. Stuck in your old ways. Unable to accept new things. There is no reason why this system couldn't be as fun, "hardcore" and social as the one in XI. It's just different. That's the problem here.

deadline527

The game is fine other then the fact that I cant get a group of friends and go deep in a dungeon and kill stuff for eight hours if thats what I wanted to do. Instead,  I will be FORCED to play the game by constantly doing guildleve after guildleve. It will be strictly a mission based game. I cant help but think of all these new MMOs where they force you to do nothing but quests/missions/guildleves.  The rest of the game sounds amazing other then this part, and sadly its quite a gamebreaking bit.

Hyanmen

Originally posted by deadline527

The game is fine other then the fact that I cant get a group of friends and go deep in a dungeon and kill stuff for eight hours if thats what I wanted to do. Instead,  I will be FORCED to play the game by constantly doing guildleve after guildleve. It will be strictly a mission based game. I cant help but think of all these new MMOs where they force you to do nothing but quests/missions/guildleves.  The rest of the game sounds amazing other then this part, and sadly its quite a gamebreaking bit.

Not forced... but you'll have to find like-minded people. 

Honestly though, it's better than forcing you to get a group of friends and go deep in a dungeon and kill stuff for eight hours.

Guildleves will not be the only thing to do in this game. Just like exping wasn't the only thing you could do in XI. 

Alberel

Originally posted by deadline527

The game is fine other then the fact that I cant get a group of friends and go deep in a dungeon and kill stuff for eight hours if thats what I wanted to do. Instead,  I will be FORCED to play the game by constantly doing guildleve after guildleve. It will be strictly a mission based game. I cant help but think of all these new MMOs where they force you to do nothing but quests/missions/guildleves.  The rest of the game sounds amazing other then this part, and sadly its quite a gamebreaking bit.

I think you're jumping to conclusions there... the game has dungeons, mobs give skill ups regardless of if you're doing a guild leve or not and there are skills to recover MP. SE have even said that there is a party role whose job is to restore MP to other party members. There is nothing at all forcing you to do guild leves exclusively. They're just an evolution of FFXI's regime system and an attempt to appeal a little more to gamers who are lost without quests telling them where to go and what to do.

Martinmas

  The Thaumaturge class has a siphon power skill that takes MP from enemies that you have killed. It would seem that even if you want to play a different type of caster you can still switch to the Thaumaturge for a few fights to regain magic and then switch back to the class you prefer when your MP bar is filled to your liking.

deadline527

That idea with certain classes being able to restore MP actually sounds really good. I'd prefer it like that because it makes classes depend on other classes, and thats what I think a MMORPG should require at its most basic level. I guess I'm just praying for complicated MMO with true risk vs reward, instead of what we've seen in the last five or so years, and I really dont want to be let down yet again with something that looks so promising.

It is still Alpha though, so things can and most likely will change. I'm just hoping they keep it difficult and risky with a large focus on grouping.

seeyouspacec0wboy

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Having no MP regen sounds good to me. A bit like memorizing spells in D&D - only you have to go back to town to recover them, rather than sleeping for hours (which would be unworkable in an MMORPG).

Having a limit on a valuable resources makes you THINK before casting - should I burn these MP here, or wait for a more important use?

It probably WON'T turn out this way, as MMOs are trending more and more to the stupid player, but it is a cause for hope.

Couldn't agree more.

Hyanmen

Originally posted by Martinmas

  The Thaumaturge class has a siphon power skill that takes MP from enemies that you have killed. It would seem that even if you want to play a different type of caster you can still switch to the Thaumaturge for a few fights to regain magic and then switch back to the class you prefer when your MP bar is filled to your liking.

You can also use the siphon ability on other classes as well. So, no need to change.

deadline527

To the post above this (or two above)..

 

That is why MMOs should stop giving casters rediculous amounts of MP where they never have to worry about running out. You SHOULD have to think about when to cast what and how often. Running out during a fight should be a very real possibility, yet in todays mmorpg games it seems players are able to cast to their hearts content and never worry about coming anywhere even close to running out.

I totally agree with you with that, but disagree about having to go back to town to refill. I think the idea of having a specific class that can restore MP would be a very good alternative. Either that, or how it was in EQ, with a slow regen which made you conserve your mana as much as possible just incase there was a overpull or adds that were unexpected.

Hellscream07

I like the no MP regen as well. You'll be able to regain your MP at aetheryte nodes, or that's what I've read at least, so you won't have to go back to town every time, will just have to go from a node to the other. But yes, they did mention they're trying to avoiding camping and pulling strats, they'll have to keep moving and think when and what skills to use. And I personally like the approach, will make for more strategic and group-centric combat

krowxxvii

I don't know about FFXIV, but in FFXI there is no "natural MP regen." It's not something new. You would have to "rest" when you needed HP and MP. Which was a bit annoying at first, but once you got used to the routine, it became a fundamental aspect of the gameplay. it also gave different "jobs" more utility, like the Red Mage could cast MP regen spells, which made Red Mages a must for almost any party.

 

FFXI was my first fantasy MMO. You can imagine my surprise when I played a game like WoW where you pretty much always have full HP and MP. I thought that was kind of pansy. Then again, all games beneft from different mechanics. FFXI benefited greatly from the "rest" mechanic, and I see FFXIV benefiting from it as well. Still to this day, I prefer games without natural regen.

 

As far as having to run back to town to rest... (in FFXI) that would only happen if you were in mob-infested territory and couldn't rest without being attacked (attacks interrupt rest). Generally, if you were in a party, you could rest anywhere. When you were solo, that's when you needed to be cautious about where you parked. I died more than a few times from being attacked while resting.

 

Is it annoying? Yes. Does it add a new level of risk and reward to the game? Yes.

deadline527

Originally posted by krowxxvii

I don't know about FFXIV, but in FFXI there is no "natural MP regen." It's not something new. You would have to "rest" when you needed HP and MP. Which was a bit annoying at first, but once you got used to the routine, it became a fundamental aspect of the gameplay. it also gave different "jobs" more utility, like the Red Mage could cast MP regen spells, which made Red Mages a must for almost any party.

 

FFXI was my first fantasy MMO. You can imagine my surprise when I played a game like WoW where you pretty much always have full HP and MP. I thought that was kind of pansy. Then again, all games beneft from different mechanics. FFXI benefited greatly from the "rest" mechanic, and I see FFXIV benefiting from it as well. Still to this day, I prefer games without natural regen.

 

As far as having to run back to town to rest... (in FFXI) that would only happen if you were in mob-infested territory and couldn't rest without being attacked (attacks interrupt rest). Generally, if you were in a party, you could rest anywhere. When you were solo, that's when you needed to be cautious about where you parked. I died more than a few times from being attacked while resting.

 

Is it annoying? Yes. Does it add a new level of risk and reward to the game? Yes.

 

 

----------

 

Thats what I was hoping for Krow. But I believe they are totally getting rid of the idea of resting as well..

 

Hyanmen

Originally posted by krowxxvii

I don't know about FFXIV, but in FFXI there is no "natural MP regen." It's not something new. You would have to "rest" when you needed HP and MP. Which was a bit annoying at first, but once you got used to the routine, it became a fundamental aspect of the gameplay. it also gave different "jobs" more utility, like the Red Mage could cast MP regen spells, which made Red Mages a must for almost any party.

You don't regain MP from resting in XIV. No MP regen, no MP through resting. 

Only by items, nodes, and abilities.

Edli

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Yes, that is correct. You can't regain MP through resting, only by several abilities, items, and Aetheral nodes scattered throughout the land.

The point of this system is to not make players camp in just one spot, but move in a wider area while killing groups of monsters. Basically from one Aetheral node to another. The point is not to discourage grouping, only staying in one spot for hours and pulling mobs one by one. 

So, one strategic element to the game is keeping your mp supply as high as possible while trying to survive to the next node, or to the end of the guildleve. There are few elements to ease the problems that may rise however: 

So they are trying to make it like in offline FF games. In FFX I remember that the biggest challenge apart from bosses was to get from one save point to the other. It does sound interesting and something I haven't seen yet in a mmorpg. So basically the fight doesn't end after you kill the next mob but when you reach the next aetheral node or finish the guildleve. It would require a lot of strategy.

krowxxvii

Hmm. Well, guess all we can do is wait and see how it turns out. I'll probably wait for a trial. Not going to invest much hope in FFXIV (not because of the lack of MP regen, but because of various other reasons).

Hyanmen

Originally posted by Edli

So they are trying to make it like in offline FF games. In FFX I remember that the biggest challenge apart from bosses was to get from one save point to the other. It does sound interesting and something I haven't seen yet in a mmorpg. So basically the fight doesn't end after you kill the next mob but when you reach the next aetheral node or finish the guildleve. It would require a lot of strategy.

Kiiind of. I didn't think of it that way, makes sense though. 

The fights will become harder as you progress, yes. You have to make a strategy to not use too many resources/mp on the first fights, and if you get ambushed along the way, the difficulty ramps up considerably. I imagine the last fights will be quite tough, and I'm sure SE would be evil enough to put the hardest mobs right before the node .