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Lifers Starting to Bail!

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  • DrachasorDrachasor Member Posts: 2,678

    Originally posted by grapevine

    You are completely missing the point.

     

    Popularity does not measure any games success to someone playing it.  All that matters is they enjoy it.  The only thing the company running it is interested in it being fiancially viable.  Yeah, the more profit for them the better, but profit is profit.  If both are actually occuring the game is successful, just with varied popularity.

     

    There are many MMO with far less subscription numbers than STO.  Anyone playing the game and checking out the main social hub can see around same number of instances at launch, for that area.  The drop off has been no greater than the majority of MMO's shortly following release.  Very, very, very, low subsciprtion quotes are mostly just posted as a finger in the air job by those wishing it was the case.  Which some people are actually falling for.

    I'm not missing the point.

    Sub numbers DOES measure the popularity of the game.  It doesn't measure how much a random person likes it, which is DIFFERENT than popularity, but it can be used with other factors to make some general statements on how likely it is a random person will like the game.

    There are not a lot of MMOs with far fewer sub numbers than STO.  A couple months ago or so it had 100k subs, about, and now it undoubtedly has far fewer than that given all the people quitting.  We don't know exactly, but 50k would be far from surprising.  Cryptic has certainly avoided talking about sub numbers since the "around" 100k mark which doesn't speak well of it.

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056

    Originally posted by Shastra

    Originally posted by TheHellfire

    This is not the forum to post if you are a craptic fanboy

    And who set this rule? you?

    Why would such a rule bother you?

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    I'm not making excuses for Cryptic.  I've already made my opinion known, that being STO was released way to soon and has a lot of issues.  Its not doom and gloom though, not even close.

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056

    Originally posted by grapevine

     

    There are many MMO with far less subscription numbers than STO. 

    Ones less than 6 months old - with a huge IP?

    If the numbers were good, Cryptic would be shouting them from the rooftops.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056

    Originally posted by grapevine

    I'm not making excuses for Cryptic.  I've already made my opinion known, that being STO was released way to soon and has a lot of issues.  Its not doom and gloom though, not even close.

    Yes, it is.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Originally posted by Drachasor

    Originally posted by grapevine

    You are completely missing the point.

     

    Popularity does not measure any games success to someone playing it.  All that matters is they enjoy it.  The only thing the company running it is interested in it being fiancially viable.  Yeah, the more profit for them the better, but profit is profit.  If both are actually occuring the game is successful, just with varied popularity.

     

    There are many MMO with far less subscription numbers than STO.  Anyone playing the game and checking out the main social hub can see around same number of instances at launch, for that area.  The drop off has been no greater than the majority of MMO's shortly following release.  Very, very, very, low subsciprtion quotes are mostly just posted as a finger in the air job by those wishing it was the case.  Which some people are actually falling for.

    I'm not missing the point.

    Sub numbers DOES measure the popularity of the game.  It doesn't measure how much a random person likes it, which is DIFFERENT than popularity, but it can be used with other factors to make some general statements on how likely it is a random person will like the game.

    There are not a lot of MMOs with far fewer sub numbers than STO.  A couple months ago or so it had 100k subs, about, and now it undoubtedly has far fewer than that given all the people quitting.  We don't know exactly, but 50k would be far from surprising.  Cryptic has certainly avoided talking about sub numbers since the "around" 100k mark which doesn't speak well of it.

    You are missing the point, as I never said subscription numbers didn't measure popularity.  What I said is popularity or should I say the lack of doesn't make a game unsucessful.

     

    A couple of months ago they stated is had well over 100k subs, which here got converted into 100k (only).  No numbers have ever been released.  The only comment recently from them being they are still happy with the numbers.  Providing they are happy with that, to them its successful.  While there has been a typical drop off and a turn over exists there are still plenty of people playing.  To those playing and enjoying it, its also successful.  To those not playing, shouldn't care less.  Move on, everything in finite.

  • natuxatunatuxatu Member UncommonPosts: 1,364

    As seen in the past it can be doom and gloom for sure. It might not get cancels but the more bad news that spreads the less people there are that are going to give the game a chance even if/when things DO get better. It sounds like they werent ready which was mistake #1. Granted a lot MMOs release before they really should. But the biggest mistake they are making is they aren't listening or even pretending to listen to the community. Nor are they really communicating.. so a lof subscribers are wondering if things are going to get better or if they should just cancel and move on. And when they dont hear anything for awhile, they'll cancel. *shrug*

    image

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Originally posted by natuxatu

    As seen in the past it can be doom and gloom for sure. It might not get cancels but the more bad news that spreads the less people there are that are going to give the game a chance even if/when things DO get better. It sounds like they werent ready which was mistake #1. Granted a lot MMOs release before they really should. But the biggest mistake they are making is they aren't listening or even pretending to listen to the community. Nor are they really communicating.. so a lof subscribers are wondering if things are going to get better or if they should just cancel and move on. And when they dont hear anything for awhile, they'll cancel. *shrug*

     

    Yeah, they and the game weren't ready.  Most defintly a big mistake.

     

    As for the listening, they are actually showing evidence of it.  So I really do not understand that comment.  However, we won't know (unfortunatly) until season 2 is released for sure.

  • GoldknyghtGoldknyght Member UncommonPosts: 1,519

    Stop giving this game excuses people the only reason everyone hasnt bailed yet on this game is because its STAR TREK!!! once that star trek phase wears off, this game will have no player base because the game has no substance. Only good thing about the damn game is Starship battles and thats it. This game is a GRINDFEST and only reason anyone plays is because the name of the game is Star Trek.

    image
  • wickymageewickymagee Member UncommonPosts: 44

    Originally posted by grapevine

    You are completely missing the point.

     

    "Popularity does not measure any games success to someone playing it.  All that matters is they enjoy it.  The only thing the company running it is interested in, is it being fiancially viable.  Yeah, the more profit for them the better, but profit is profit. "

     

    You must remember that a company will only devote as many resources to a game as it warrants the game is worth to them.  To be financially viable a game has to generate a certain ammount of revenue.  If sub numbers fall low enough the company will devote fewer resources to that game; fewer devs means fewer content updates which will eventually lead to lower sub rates and so on until the game shuts down.  A company would be foolish to continue a game with a low sub rate simply because some people like it the way it is.

    That's not to say that STO is unsalvageable; it's still in it's first six months being active, problems can be fixed, new content added and Cryptic can try to stem the flow of criticism about the game by actively trying to make it better.  The proof will come in the next six to nine months; whether or not they care to devote enough resources to make surface combat more interesting (and look better) and add more depth to the types of quests that are issued.  If Cryptic doesn't release huge updates relatively soon then I see this game as dead in the water.

  • bstiffbstiff Member Posts: 359

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by natuxatu

    As seen in the past it can be doom and gloom for sure. It might not get cancels but the more bad news that spreads the less people there are that are going to give the game a chance even if/when things DO get better. It sounds like they werent ready which was mistake #1. Granted a lot MMOs release before they really should. But the biggest mistake they are making is they aren't listening or even pretending to listen to the community. Nor are they really communicating.. so a lof subscribers are wondering if things are going to get better or if they should just cancel and move on. And when they dont hear anything for awhile, they'll cancel. *shrug*

     

    Yeah, they and the game weren't ready.  Most defintly a big mistake.

     

    As for the listening, they are actually showing evidence of it.  So I really do not understand that comment.  However, we won't know (unfortunatly) until season 2 is released for sure.

     Season 2 yeah. Im up for that. Im always up for another round of "cryptic never claimed x...." and frantic post/website editing by the mods.

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    That would be difficult, given they now document what they are doing in the engineering reports.

  • bstiffbstiff Member Posts: 359

    Originally posted by grapevine

    That would be difficult, given they now document what they are doing in the engineering reports.

     And nothing has been deleted from the engineering report after cryptic has been called on it ever....

  • Darth_OsorDarth_Osor Member Posts: 1,089

    Cryptic needs to fail hard if for no other reason than to prevent other dev companies from looking at this model of cranking out half-done MMOs every 24 months and thinking it is profitable, much less acceptable.  If Cryptic makes money off CO, STO, and whatever their 3rd MMO-lite title is, you can bet more dev companies will follow suit, and we'll get even MORE garbage MMOs flooding the market.

  • MeTedMeTed Member Posts: 129

    Originally posted by Darth_Osor

    Cryptic needs to fail hard if for no other reason than to prevent other dev companies from looking at this model of cranking out half-done MMOs every 24 months and thinking it is profitable, much less acceptable.  If Cryptic makes money off CO, STO, and whatever their 3rd MMO-lite title is, you can bet more dev companies will follow suit, and we'll get even MORE garbage MMOs flooding the market.

     Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your company and I realized that you're not actually MMO developers. Every MMO on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. <fill in the blank> are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.

     

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Originally posted by bstiff

    Originally posted by grapevine

    That would be difficult, given they now document what they are doing in the engineering reports.

     And nothing has been deleted from the engineering report after cryptic has been called on it ever....

     

    Yeah, sure there's been adjustments, as one would expect with on going development.   However, every single one of the is there to been seen.

     

    Since their publication the only challenges I've seen against them is why things have moved.

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Originally posted by wickymagee

    You must remember that a company will only devote as many resources to a game as it warrants the game is worth to them.  To be financially viable a game has to generate a certain ammount of revenue.  If sub numbers fall low enough the company will devote fewer resources to that game; fewer devs means fewer content updates which will eventually lead to lower sub rates and so on until the game shuts down.  A company would be foolish to continue a game with a low sub rate simply because some people like it the way it is.

    That's not to say that STO is unsalvageable; it's still in it's first six months being active, problems can be fixed, new content added and Cryptic can try to stem the flow of criticism about the game by actively trying to make it better.  The proof will come in the next six to nine months; whether or not they care to devote enough resources to make surface combat more interesting (and look better) and add more depth to the types of quests that are issued.  If Cryptic doesn't release huge updates relatively soon then I see this game as dead in the water.

    That is true.  There is a balance.  Although it doesn't always translate into how many updates a game receives.  Look at WoW.  The most profitable MMO by far, yet its updates relatively are sparce compained to less profitable games.  EVE Online ran for years with hardly any subs and received more attention.

  • xx19kilosoldxx19kilosold Member Posts: 209

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by wickymagee

    You must remember that a company will only devote as many resources to a game as it warrants the game is worth to them.  To be financially viable a game has to generate a certain ammount of revenue.  If sub numbers fall low enough the company will devote fewer resources to that game; fewer devs means fewer content updates which will eventually lead to lower sub rates and so on until the game shuts down.  A company would be foolish to continue a game with a low sub rate simply because some people like it the way it is.

    That's not to say that STO is unsalvageable; it's still in it's first six months being active, problems can be fixed, new content added and Cryptic can try to stem the flow of criticism about the game by actively trying to make it better.  The proof will come in the next six to nine months; whether or not they care to devote enough resources to make surface combat more interesting (and look better) and add more depth to the types of quests that are issued.  If Cryptic doesn't release huge updates relatively soon then I see this game as dead in the water.

    That is true.  There is a balance.  Although it doesn't always translate into how many updates a game receives.  Look at WoW.  The most profitable MMO by far, yet its updates relatively are sparce compained to less profitable games.  EVE Online ran for years with hardly any subs and received more attention.

    This just isnt true. Go look at past patch notes for WoW. From the begining, then come back and say....ooppss.

     

    And just for the record, I dont like WoW personally, but I wont make shit up to bash it either.

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056

    Originally posted by MeTed

     Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your company and I realized that you're not actually MMO developers. Every MMO on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus.  are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.

     

    Coolest character in the film. By far.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Originally posted by xx19kilosold

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by wickymagee

    You must remember that a company will only devote as many resources to a game as it warrants the game is worth to them.  To be financially viable a game has to generate a certain ammount of revenue.  If sub numbers fall low enough the company will devote fewer resources to that game; fewer devs means fewer content updates which will eventually lead to lower sub rates and so on until the game shuts down.  A company would be foolish to continue a game with a low sub rate simply because some people like it the way it is.

    That's not to say that STO is unsalvageable; it's still in it's first six months being active, problems can be fixed, new content added and Cryptic can try to stem the flow of criticism about the game by actively trying to make it better.  The proof will come in the next six to nine months; whether or not they care to devote enough resources to make surface combat more interesting (and look better) and add more depth to the types of quests that are issued.  If Cryptic doesn't release huge updates relatively soon then I see this game as dead in the water.

    That is true.  There is a balance.  Although it doesn't always translate into how many updates a game receives.  Look at WoW.  The most profitable MMO by far, yet its updates relatively are sparce compained to less profitable games.  EVE Online ran for years with hardly any subs and received more attention.

    This just isnt true. Go look at past patch notes for WoW. From the begining, then come back and say....ooppss.

     

    And just for the record, I dont like WoW personally, but I wont make shit up to bash it either.

     

    I played WoW for years.  Given the money Blizzard make from it, it has had a reletive poor return.  There are less profitable games, which have seen a mich higher relative return in content.

     

    At a point profit from subscriptions is simply profit and not a reinventment into the game.  That point is different for each company.  Which was the point of my comment.  WoW should have tons of expansions, not just the two (soon to be three).   Sporadically they'll throw in a content patch, but most are continued balancing or tweaks to mechanics.

  • raistalin69raistalin69 Member Posts: 575

    it may be too late for that, as with lts and box sales they may have allready made a profit. at this point just let people know whats happened with sto. hopefully cryptics next game will fail hard enough that other companie wil take notice and not try to pull the same unprofessional, borderline unethical behavior. the gm's in the game i now play look at cryptic as a what not to do story, so at least some people who make mmo's are looking at whats going on with sto and saying "not here... ever!"

    IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME

  • xx19kilosoldxx19kilosold Member Posts: 209

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by xx19kilosold

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by wickymagee

    You must remember that a company will only devote as many resources to a game as it warrants the game is worth to them.  To be financially viable a game has to generate a certain ammount of revenue.  If sub numbers fall low enough the company will devote fewer resources to that game; fewer devs means fewer content updates which will eventually lead to lower sub rates and so on until the game shuts down.  A company would be foolish to continue a game with a low sub rate simply because some people like it the way it is.

    That's not to say that STO is unsalvageable; it's still in it's first six months being active, problems can be fixed, new content added and Cryptic can try to stem the flow of criticism about the game by actively trying to make it better.  The proof will come in the next six to nine months; whether or not they care to devote enough resources to make surface combat more interesting (and look better) and add more depth to the types of quests that are issued.  If Cryptic doesn't release huge updates relatively soon then I see this game as dead in the water.

    That is true.  There is a balance.  Although it doesn't always translate into how many updates a game receives.  Look at WoW.  The most profitable MMO by far, yet its updates relatively are sparce compained to less profitable games.  EVE Online ran for years with hardly any subs and received more attention.

    This just isnt true. Go look at past patch notes for WoW. From the begining, then come back and say....ooppss.

     

    And just for the record, I dont like WoW personally, but I wont make shit up to bash it either.

     

    I played WoW for years.  Given the money Blizzard make from it, it has had a reletive poor return.  There are less profitable games, which have seen a mich higher relative return in content.

     

    At a point profit from subscription is simply profit and not a reinventment into the game.  Which was the point of my comment.  WoW should have tons of expansions, not just the two (soon to be three).

    How bout a citation to go along with all that hyperbole?

     

    Seriously, WoW has added a lot of content through updates. This is typical of the STO" fanboy" defense tactics, bash on WoW and it some how makes STO better? 

    Really?

     

     

     

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

     
  • BetabooBetaboo Member Posts: 384

    Originally posted by xx19kilosold

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by xx19kilosold

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by wickymagee

    You must remember that a company will only devote as many resources to a game as it warrants the game is worth to them.  To be financially viable a game has to generate a certain ammount of revenue.  If sub numbers fall low enough the company will devote fewer resources to that game; fewer devs means fewer content updates which will eventually lead to lower sub rates and so on until the game shuts down.  A company would be foolish to continue a game with a low sub rate simply because some people like it the way it is.

    That's not to say that STO is unsalvageable; it's still in it's first six months being active, problems can be fixed, new content added and Cryptic can try to stem the flow of criticism about the game by actively trying to make it better.  The proof will come in the next six to nine months; whether or not they care to devote enough resources to make surface combat more interesting (and look better) and add more depth to the types of quests that are issued.  If Cryptic doesn't release huge updates relatively soon then I see this game as dead in the water.

    That is true.  There is a balance.  Although it doesn't always translate into how many updates a game receives.  Look at WoW.  The most profitable MMO by far, yet its updates relatively are sparce compained to less profitable games.  EVE Online ran for years with hardly any subs and received more attention.

    This just isnt true. Go look at past patch notes for WoW. From the begining, then come back and say....ooppss.

     

    And just for the record, I dont like WoW personally, but I wont make shit up to bash it either.

     

    I played WoW for years.  Given the money Blizzard make from it, it has had a reletive poor return.  There are less profitable games, which have seen a mich higher relative return in content.

     

    At a point profit from subscription is simply profit and not a reinventment into the game.  Which was the point of my comment.  WoW should have tons of expansions, not just the two (soon to be three).

    How bout a citation to go along with all that hyperbole?

     

    Seriously, WoW has added a lot of content through updates. This is typical of the STO" fanboy" defense tactics, bash on WoW and it some how makes STO better? 

    Really?

     

     

     

    WOW shipped with a ton and i mean a ton of content STO shipped half finished case closed.

    And yes they both shipped with bugs but i have never been in on an opening where the game did not have a few bugs so i cant rant them for that.

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Originally posted by xx19kilosold

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by xx19kilosold

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by wickymagee

    You must remember that a company will only devote as many resources to a game as it warrants the game is worth to them.  To be financially viable a game has to generate a certain ammount of revenue.  If sub numbers fall low enough the company will devote fewer resources to that game; fewer devs means fewer content updates which will eventually lead to lower sub rates and so on until the game shuts down.  A company would be foolish to continue a game with a low sub rate simply because some people like it the way it is.

    That's not to say that STO is unsalvageable; it's still in it's first six months being active, problems can be fixed, new content added and Cryptic can try to stem the flow of criticism about the game by actively trying to make it better.  The proof will come in the next six to nine months; whether or not they care to devote enough resources to make surface combat more interesting (and look better) and add more depth to the types of quests that are issued.  If Cryptic doesn't release huge updates relatively soon then I see this game as dead in the water.

    That is true.  There is a balance.  Although it doesn't always translate into how many updates a game receives.  Look at WoW.  The most profitable MMO by far, yet its updates relatively are sparce compained to less profitable games.  EVE Online ran for years with hardly any subs and received more attention.

    This just isnt true. Go look at past patch notes for WoW. From the begining, then come back and say....ooppss.

     

    And just for the record, I dont like WoW personally, but I wont make shit up to bash it either.

     

    I played WoW for years.  Given the money Blizzard make from it, it has had a reletive poor return.  There are less profitable games, which have seen a mich higher relative return in content.

     

    At a point profit from subscription is simply profit and not a reinventment into the game.  Which was the point of my comment.  WoW should have tons of expansions, not just the two (soon to be three).

    How bout a citation to go along with all that hyperbole?

     

    Seriously, WoW has added a lot of content through updates. This is typical of the STO" fanboy" defense tactics, bash on WoW and it some how makes STO better? 

    Really?

     

     

     

    Seriously can you read?  Reletive to profit!!!!!!  As for relating to STO, my reply wasn't even about it.  It was around development re-investment in general.  Which was the exact reason why I stated EVE and not STO.

This discussion has been closed.