To say a game will be like EQ is rather vague. EQ is different things to different people depending when they played. Players who stopped playing after PoP was released remember a very different game than the current version of EQ played today.
Which is really my point. The thread seems largely wistful of whatever parts of EQ the given poster liked.
I will specify, it "seems" (to me) there will be:
1) Less hand-holding (which means more mystery and thrills)
2) Some forced grouping (which leads to better community building and gameplay)
3) More realistic graphics, less cartoony (which helps in immersion)
4) Some mystery (maybe because in Beta, but part of EQ's charm was you never really uncovered all the secrets in the world. There always seemed to be "more" left in any zone you were in, even familiar ones.) In EQ, they gave you a map and let your imagination run wild as to what different areas were actually like. I sense this in FF XIV too, but nothing to substantiate it more than that.
5) Atmospheric music that is simple and beautiful without being too jazzed up or commercialized.
Well, most give extra XP to grouping (even if it diminishes the challenge). I still thing this is pretty vague as I am sure different people remember different things about EQ's community that they liked. Also, system is inherently tied up in here as the system intimately intertwined with how the game's community acts. I did read the thread, but I didn't really see many people giving specifics about what sort of community they'd like or, more significantly HOW FFXIV would deliver it.
I mean, if FFXI didn't do it for you, then I don't see how FFXIV will.
I don't know... I pretty much understand the point that people are getting at I think, you don't, and thats fine. I think your over analyzing the whole thing a little tbh.
I think it is maybe just as as simple as most just maybe wanting an inspired co-op social PvE mmorpg that has a solid company behind it that is passionate about it's game, and FFXIV looks like it could be just that.
I think I understand what is going on here just fine; A lot of vague nostalgia.
Again, a lot of people are saying games like this haven't been made since EQ.* My counter to that is if FFXI doesn't satisfy this need, then how is FFXIV going to be any better at it? (That question is not just rhetorical, I'm literally asking for what you see FFXIV bringing to the table that improves the social aspect that FFXI didn't or even that other MMOs don't). FFXIV is certainly a lot less hardcore than EQ or FFXI were/are. In any case, you don't see the Devs talking a lot about community building and how to design a game with that in mind from what I've read, so I don't quite understand why people think this is going to be the "new EQ".
*Though not everyone in the thread.
If you want to see it as 'vague nostalgia' then fine, go for it. I for one am not offended by that, though it does come off as kind of antagonistic and delibertly provocative on your part. If this is indeed what it is, why does that bother you so much that you think it requires extended debate? Why not just leave people to their hopes and dreams until we know more for sure? Not flaming you, I am genuinly interested.
To answer your question tho on why people just don't play XI... I think people just want a 'modern' game that captures the co-op social gameplay of the old ones, be that EQ or indeed FFXI (which even SE admit was an EQ clone) and they see XIV maybe providing that. If it will does or not we will have to wait to see... but you can't blame people for hoping that some respectable major dev actually 'gets it' at last and provides a modern version of the games we played for so long and so fondly remember for such good reasons.
To say a game will be like EQ is rather vague. EQ is different things to different people depending when they played. Players who stopped playing after PoP was released remember a very different game than the current version of EQ played today.
Which is really my point. The thread seems largely wistful of whatever parts of EQ the given poster liked.
I will specify, it "seems" (to me) there will be:
1) Less hand-holding (which means more mystery and thrills)
2) Some forced grouping (which leads to better community building and gameplay)
3) More realistic graphics, less cartoony (which helps in immersion)
4) Some mystery (maybe because in Beta, but part of EQ's charm was you never really uncovered all the secrets in the world. There always seemed to be "more" left in any zone you were in, even familiar ones.) In EQ, they gave you a map and let your imagination run wild as to what different areas were actually like. I sense this in FF XIV too, but nothing to substantiate it more than that.
5) Atmospheric music that is simple and beautiful without being too jazzed up or commercialized.
I think this sums it up pretty well. I still remember running from Kelethin to Felwithe the first time. It was exciting because there wasn't any map, you just followed a road with no clue what was going to pop up. There were many times like that. Like going to Butcherblock for the first time, just taking that random road south into the next zone, then happening upon Estate of Unrest. Spent some good time leveling there.
Now, I understand that FFXIV hasn't stated it will be a new EQ or anything, but it is just a hope. Immersion, exploration, community.
No doubt I'm hoping this game brings back some of the old school mechanics such as large worlds, good grouping mechanics and rewards and socialization. (maybe I'll start learning Japanese)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Half of the tracks on the OST are heavily blues drums influenced with a mixture of 80's synths and guitars. The other half is slow, atmospheric, sorta big band but not in your face, mood setting sound.
Half of the tracks on the OST are heavily blues drums influenced with a mixture of 80's synths and guitars. The other half is slow, atmospheric, sorta big band but not in your face, mood setting sound.
I might pass on it then, unless it gets incredible reviews, and just wait it out for EQ3.
I see the kiddies getting so excited over eye-candy, music and graphics...ohhhh. Shiney objects within a music box isnt going to impress mmorpg enthusiasts. Another EQ? No. Perhaps another pve Aion with pretty graphics, cut-scenes and music.
But EQ was an evolution of the mmorpg genre. In order for a game to push the genre further, as a benchmark for future games to build upon, there's much in terms of player-centric ecosystem and concentration that transcends a gltsy pve themepark.
I see the kiddies getting so excited over eye-candy, music and graphics...ohhhh. Shiney objects within a music box isnt going to impress mmorpg enthusiasts. Another EQ? No. Perhaps another pve Aion with pretty graphics, cut-scenes and music.
But EQ was an evolution of the mmorpg genre. In order for a game to push the genre further, as a benchmark for future games to build upon, there's much in terms of player-centric ecosystem and concentration that transcends a gltsy pve themepark.
/yawn
Perhaps you should read up on the game and review some of the Alpha discussions currently being debated. There are a few interesting directions that SE looks to be taking XIV, even at this early stage. Again, we don't know enough yet, but i'd venture a guess that it will surpass the shallow and glitzy Aion. Music is one of the important aspects that immerses one in a game world.
I see the kiddies getting so excited over eye-candy, music and graphics...ohhhh. Shiney objects within a music box isnt going to impress mmorpg enthusiasts. Another EQ? No. Perhaps another pve Aion with pretty graphics, cut-scenes and music.
But EQ was an evolution of the mmorpg genre. In order for a game to push the genre further, as a benchmark for future games to build upon, there's much in terms of player-centric ecosystem and concentration that transcends a gltsy pve themepark.
/yawn
Clearly we "kiddies" are only excited for the graphics (which are way better than Aion's craptastic graphics). It has nothing to do with the dev interviews and the information for the game's direction. Nothing at all.
I hope it will. Playing DF right now and still having a blast but boy I'd go nuts for another real Everquest 1. From what I've been reading for far its looks promising tough I hate things like "being able to solo till max level and please for the sake of god no damn cashshops!"
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I see the kiddies getting so excited over eye-candy, music and graphics...ohhhh. Shiney objects within a music box isnt going to impress mmorpg enthusiasts. Another EQ? No. Perhaps another pve Aion with pretty graphics, cut-scenes and music.
But EQ was an evolution of the mmorpg genre. In order for a game to push the genre further, as a benchmark for future games to build upon, there's much in terms of player-centric ecosystem and concentration that transcends a gltsy pve themepark.
/yawn
Let's not be too romantic. The biggest thing that EQ brought to the genre was the "eye-candy, music and graphics." I would be really hard-pressed to come up with more than one or two non-interface-related things that a.) originated in EQ and not the MUDs that came before it, and b.) are still considered good features in modern MMOs. If it had been released as a text-only game or one with NES-quality graphics, it would have been a forgettable flop. It owes most of its success to what it did not do (nonconsensual PvP) and timing: it was released just as cheap 56k dial-up and AGP graphics cards were becoming commonplace, making gamers receptive to the idea of a persistant 3D world. Which aspects of EQ do you feel made it an evolution of the genre?
If you want to see it as 'vague nostalgia' then fine, go for it. I for one am not offended by that, though it does come off as kind of antagonistic and delibertly provocative on your part. If this is indeed what it is, why does that bother you so much that you think it requires extended debate? Why not just leave people to their hopes and dreams until we know more for sure? Not flaming you, I am genuinly interested.
To answer your question tho on why people just don't play XI... I think people just want a 'modern' game that captures the co-op social gameplay of the old ones, be that EQ or indeed FFXI (which even SE admit was an EQ clone) and they see XIV maybe providing that. If it will does or not we will have to wait to see... but you can't blame people for hoping that some respectable major dev actually 'gets it' at last and provides a modern version of the games we played for so long and so fondly remember for such good reasons.
Thats as plainly as I can answer it tbh.
Sorry about the late reply (my grandmother broke her hip two months ago and her insurance ran out so my posting can be a bit irregular as need of sleep/relaxing interrupts it).
I tried not being provocative and that didn't get anywhere. Now it is getting somewhere. As to why....well, the unexamined life is not worth living, yes?
As for the "getting it" part, it seemed people were being pretty vague about what "it" was and especially about how FFXIV would be getting "it" When people aren't clear, then it is easy for everyone to think they agree when in fact they do not. Waxing about how great EQ was in vague terms doesn't necessarily mean anyone actually liked the same thing about EQ and hence the hopes that FFXIV would be the same as EQ in some way aren't necessarily the same hopes from person to person.
I haven't seen a lot of specifics on how FFXIV plans on having a sense of community in terms of game mechanics. I'd like to see what it is offering for how people join up to do Guild Leves though (concept sounds ok, but it has been light on details the last time I checked). I do think the more tactically-minded combat should make communication a bigger component and I think that will be a lot of fun and have good social dynamics. I hope they have other social stuff as well.
If all we are talking about is a game that encourages people to do stuff together, then I think there are other games like this. As much as it is misunderstood, SW:TOR should do this (in fact, I might play both FFXIV and TOR). One of the lead designers put out a great post on how a game needs to be designed to support/encourage community. It was very nice to see that they understand that community isn't something that happens magically, but rather something that is strongly influenced by game design. I haven't read anything that direct about other games, but I probably missed someone with FFXIV since I've been kind busy (as I indicated above). I don't suppose you have a link to any relevant Dev interviews?
To say a game will be like EQ is rather vague. EQ is different things to different people depending when they played. Players who stopped playing after PoP was released remember a very different game than the current version of EQ played today.
Which is really my point. The thread seems largely wistful of whatever parts of EQ the given poster liked.
I will specify, it "seems" (to me) there will be:
1) Less hand-holding (which means more mystery and thrills)
2) Some forced grouping (which leads to better community building and gameplay)
3) More realistic graphics, less cartoony (which helps in immersion)
4) Some mystery (maybe because in Beta, but part of EQ's charm was you never really uncovered all the secrets in the world. There always seemed to be "more" left in any zone you were in, even familiar ones.) In EQ, they gave you a map and let your imagination run wild as to what different areas were actually like. I sense this in FF XIV too, but nothing to substantiate it more than that.
5) Atmospheric music that is simple and beautiful without being too jazzed up or commercialized.
I think this sums it up pretty well. I still remember running from Kelethin to Felwithe the first time. It was exciting because there wasn't any map, you just followed a road with no clue what was going to pop up. There were many times like that. Like going to Butcherblock for the first time, just taking that random road south into the next zone, then happening upon Estate of Unrest. Spent some good time leveling there.
Now, I understand that FFXIV hasn't stated it will be a new EQ or anything, but it is just a hope. Immersion, exploration, community.
Well, personally I like a game to be immersive. If there should be maps available that detail where roads go, etc, then I should be able to get a map or start with one. If a quest needs me to go to some place that the quest giver should be able to point to on a map, then I should get a marker on the map. If not, then I'd personally enjoy clues and other things (like tracking) that lead me to where I need to go (as opposed to having to fumble around for a couple hours because the directions were poor and the game provides no indication of where I need to be). I certainly don't want WoW's new quest interface for everything, but it is equally unimmersive when I have to fumble around for an hour because the directions were poorly written (and of course I can't go back to the guy and ask for better directions, because the game doesn't work that way). There's an immersive middle-ground between the two, imho.
As to what Pencilrick said:
1) I think it really depends on what you mean by hand-holding. I'm not sure what we'll get from FFXIV in this regard. Combat should be more interesting. I haven't seen much that indicates it will be substantially different from say WoW before their quest helper patch (as a point of comparison).
2) What game hasn't had forced grouping for some content? Well, besides CO and STO (but those are epic fails). Anyhow, grouping has to be done RIGHT. WoW has forced grouping and heavily encourages you to group for the daily heroic, but that ends up being an anti-community mechanic because there's no challenge for most groups. Forced rofl-stomping is bad. I am NOT saying FFXIV is going to do this, rather I merely want to indicate there are good ways to do group and bad ways. Generally encouraging grouping with more rewards (not necessarily better), more experience, and especially more interesting gameplay (they definitely have this) is the way to go. We're social creatures and we'll group if it is fun and not overly cumbersome.
3) I think this varies from person to person. Some, like myself, have no problem with non-realistic graphics. It would be interesting if this is a significant component of what people view as "like EQ."
4) This is always the hardest thing to do outside of story mysteries (which eventually get solved). We'll have to see how FFXIV does here. I never played EQ (played different MMOs), but this seems like something that is easy to get nostalgic about. Something one overlooked but that someone else didn't might seem like a mystery easily enough. I'm pretty sure EQ didn't have anything all that special here to ensure that a zone felt alive (I think this is part of what you are getting at), but correct me if I am wrong. Certainly there are a LOT of potential tools for this from modern MMOs, but as you say we have no idea what the FFXIV devs are thinking about it.
Not really, I think it's just a design principle stemming from the MMO's that are current in today's market. They want to make the game more appealing to everyone, or at least to the average player regardless of which market they are from. They want to make money in the end and as for the less classes at the start, eleven launched with only a few classes and now it has a ton of options so I'm not worried about variety.
Listed above is just one response by Ganen that states FF14 will not be anything like the original EQ...
I'm an old school MMO gamer who fell in love with EQ.. That game was the only MMO I ever was addicted to.. It was the only MMO that literally made me feel as If I was in my very own epic neverending D&D Fantasy novel.. EQ was a game that did not cater to illiterate peons like todays cookie cutter eeeezzzzzz mode rollercoaster mmo's... EQ was a hardcore MMORPG for those who literally lived, breathed, and enjoyed the fantasy genre... EQ was a game that was "not kind" to those who enjoy soloing, unless of course you played a Druid or Necro, or a cleric "if you had a manastone" before they were taken out of the game... EQ was also a game that revolved around "grouping" to level and "raiding" to receive the phat lewts, and progress through the epic storyline.
With that said, what makes any of you believe Final Fantasy 14 will be anything like the original EQ and Vanguard???? Based on a interview with Ganen, Final Fantasy 14 will cater to the larger crowd as opposed to the hardcore MMORPG gamers of old like myself.. The developers are creating another EEEZZZZZZ mode WoW clone to appeal to the larger scale of gamers which means it wont be anything like EQ or Vanguard.... I wish it would be, because I've been dying to find a game similar to EQ and Vanguard.. I'm sorry but Final Fantasy 14 will not appeal to those who enjoyed the features of EQ and VG... If anything, Final Fantasy 11 plays more like EQ than FF 14 will.. I hate to be the one to admit this fact, but it's true..
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I'm an old school MMO gamer who fell in love with EQ.. That game was the only MMO I ever was addicted to..
I felt the same way about EQ, the only difference is that I also felt the similar warm feeling playing FFXI. Maybe you have to be a fan of FF in general to have loved FFXI as much. To this day it's hard for me to say that EQ or FFXI was my favorite mmorpg ever because I don't know which one to put that the top of my list... EQ being the cherry popper or SE turning my favorite rpg franchise into an mmo at last!
EQ was incredible, no doubt about that. FFXI took it one step further with skillchains. Depends how you look at it of course. I know of many people that don't like FF because they don't like anime-ish charatcers. Japanese games stem from another world of fantasy. It's all a matter of opinion.
As far as game mechanics and story, have no fear... SE will deliver.
What it all comes down to is the players. Considering FFXI had the friendliest community I've ever dealt with (although NO ONE is perfect) I'd think FFXIV is shaping up to be THE game. THE game could have been *place your favorite mmorpg here*. Take what you want from it. I knew exactly what the OP was talking about.
Bottom line at this point: SE has the potential to make this THE next great mmorpg. Only time will tell, but so should YOU!
What it all comes down to is the players. Considering FFXI had the friendliest community I've ever dealt with (although NO ONE is perfect) I'd think FFXIV is shaping up to be THE game. THE game could have been *place your favorite mmorpg here*. Take what you want from it. I knew exactly what the OP was talking about.
That's not true. It DOESN'T come down to the players. How people behave online and in a game depends very, very significantly on the mechanics of the situation. People behave quite different on a well moderated forum, over-moderated forum, and unmoderated forum (and that's just the tip of the forum iceberg). WoW has a crappy community not because it is popular, but because the game doesn't do much to foster community-friendly behaviors (and this has gotten worse with the LFD tool, which is poorly designed from a community perspective).
Part of why FFXI had a strong community is because it was so insanely tedious to form groups and then you had to cooperate to do a good job. Now FFXIV definitely has the latter, and it encourages groups too, which is good. I don't think the draconian forced grouping system is needed as long as the devs are mindful to create systems that encourage grouping and engaging in challenging content (e.g. challenging content as a group gives faster rewards than challenging or non-challenging solo content for instance). It is unclear how mindful FFXIV is on this score, but we can be hopeful. (For what it is worth, I again bring up SW:TOR as an example of where the developers have been very explicit in their understanding of how game mechanics affect communities, which is a very good sign).
The devs have said that they will be making it easier to go solo in FFXIV. I think the community will suffer for that reason.
Most people don't want to be polite, civil, and co-operative. Humans are basically selfish screeching monkeys who like to throw feces at each other. It is society's pressures to conform which maintain civility. Take away the need to get along with others, and most will willingly go back into the treetops.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
It depends what you mean by "100% enabled solo play." You will be able to level up solo. Evidence indicates it is faster to group
We'll see about when the game releases. I doubt it.
and more fun to group (you can chain abilities together in a group in a more refined system than FFXI had). There will also be group-only content.
Wow has tons of group-only content.
We'll see. Guild Leves look like their system to either allow solo play or really encourage group play (so little information so far). You can choose a difficulty setting, go solo or in a group, have different objectives, etc. It is a question on whether they'll properly encourage group play with this, but I think the new version of skill chains will make group play more compelling. All they need to do is ensure it is more rewarding and also still challenging (WoW fails at challenging with the leveling content as a comparison...well, WoW also fails at group play being all that more compelling while leveling at least).
They have promising components. We'll have to see how they put them together.
We'll see. Guild Leves look like their system to either allow solo play or really encourage group play (so little information so far). You can choose a difficulty setting, go solo or in a group, have different objectives, etc. It is a question on whether they'll properly encourage group play with this, but I think the new version of skill chains will make group play more compelling.
Knowing the typical MMO gamer, what ever is faster WRT leveling is what most players will choose. 'Fun' will have little to do with it. Open RvR in WH Online was a lot more fun than grinding scenarios, but far more efficient WRT leveling. Guess where most players spent their time?
All they need to do is ensure it is more rewarding and also still challenging (WoW fails at challenging with the leveling content as a comparison...well, WoW also fails at group play being all that more compelling while leveling at least).
Only for questing. WoW dungeons were way more fun than soloing.
A couple of years ago, I would have agreed with you that proper rewards would provide a good grouping environment, but now it's clear that soloers will group for the rewards, and make that experience miserable for all involved. Simply because they are grouping for the carrot, not for the experience.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Well, I'm hoping for my previous comment to be true:
As far as game mechanics and story, have no fear... SE will deliver.
Until I played the travesty known as FFXIII, I would have agreed with you.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
We'll see. Guild Leves look like their system to either allow solo play or really encourage group play (so little information so far). You can choose a difficulty setting, go solo or in a group, have different objectives, etc. It is a question on whether they'll properly encourage group play with this, but I think the new version of skill chains will make group play more compelling.
Knowing the typical MMO gamer, what ever is faster WRT leveling is what most players will choose. 'Fun' will have little to do with it. Open RvR in WH Online was a lot more fun than grinding scenarios, but far more efficient WRT leveling. Guess where most players spent their time?
All they need to do is ensure it is more rewarding and also still challenging (WoW fails at challenging with the leveling content as a comparison...well, WoW also fails at group play being all that more compelling while leveling at least).
Only for questing. WoW dungeons were way more fun than soloing.
A couple of years ago, I would have agreed with you that proper rewards would provide a good grouping environment, but now it's clear that soloers will group for the rewards, and make that experience miserable for all involved. Simply because they are grouping for the carrot, not for the experience.
Challenging content and interesting grouping dynamics like Skill Chains mean people have to talk and communicate so they have a battle strategy. That there encourages community. The trick is to make the time it takes to do that still provide good rewards compared to soloing. Granted, if soloing is a lot more efficient for leveling than grouping, then people will solo. I think things blur a bit if they are comparable (grouping still suffers because of the formation time and the hassle of the difficult people you might run into). If grouping is more rewarding, requires some thought, planning, and cooperation to work, and the interface is good, then people will group. I think you really need all of those elements. Thoughtless grouping that's rewarding is WoW's LFD system. More rewarding solo experiences are common in many MMOs today, of course (WoW leveling being a big example). So you really need both good rewards AND content that requires planning, as you can't blindly rush through it and good planning and teamwork will be worth the effort.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think we've seen many games that do all these things together in a good while. I'm hopeful though. I admit this is coming from someone that likes to solo now and then but also likes a good group experience. I don't think those two things can't happen in the same game if designed right.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think we've seen many games that do all these things together in a good while. I'm hopeful though. I admit this is coming from someone that likes to solo now and then but also likes a good group experience. I don't think those two things can't happen in the same game if designed right.
Would you play the game if you could not gain xp while soloing at all? You could still gain gold, gather crafting mats, earn rep with faction, etc, but you could not level up.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Comments
I will specify, it "seems" (to me) there will be:
1) Less hand-holding (which means more mystery and thrills)
2) Some forced grouping (which leads to better community building and gameplay)
3) More realistic graphics, less cartoony (which helps in immersion)
4) Some mystery (maybe because in Beta, but part of EQ's charm was you never really uncovered all the secrets in the world. There always seemed to be "more" left in any zone you were in, even familiar ones.) In EQ, they gave you a map and let your imagination run wild as to what different areas were actually like. I sense this in FF XIV too, but nothing to substantiate it more than that.
5) Atmospheric music that is simple and beautiful without being too jazzed up or commercialized.
If you want to see it as 'vague nostalgia' then fine, go for it. I for one am not offended by that, though it does come off as kind of antagonistic and delibertly provocative on your part. If this is indeed what it is, why does that bother you so much that you think it requires extended debate? Why not just leave people to their hopes and dreams until we know more for sure? Not flaming you, I am genuinly interested.
To answer your question tho on why people just don't play XI... I think people just want a 'modern' game that captures the co-op social gameplay of the old ones, be that EQ or indeed FFXI (which even SE admit was an EQ clone) and they see XIV maybe providing that. If it will does or not we will have to wait to see... but you can't blame people for hoping that some respectable major dev actually 'gets it' at last and provides a modern version of the games we played for so long and so fondly remember for such good reasons.
Thats as plainly as I can answer it tbh.
I think this sums it up pretty well. I still remember running from Kelethin to Felwithe the first time. It was exciting because there wasn't any map, you just followed a road with no clue what was going to pop up. There were many times like that. Like going to Butcherblock for the first time, just taking that random road south into the next zone, then happening upon Estate of Unrest. Spent some good time leveling there.
Now, I understand that FFXIV hasn't stated it will be a new EQ or anything, but it is just a hope. Immersion, exploration, community.
No doubt I'm hoping this game brings back some of the old school mechanics such as large worlds, good grouping mechanics and rewards and socialization. (maybe I'll start learning Japanese)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think ya'll be up for a disappointment if this is what you wish, hoho.
Half of the tracks on the OST are heavily blues drums influenced with a mixture of 80's synths and guitars. The other half is slow, atmospheric, sorta big band but not in your face, mood setting sound.
I might pass on it then, unless it gets incredible reviews, and just wait it out for EQ3.
I see the kiddies getting so excited over eye-candy, music and graphics...ohhhh. Shiney objects within a music box isnt going to impress mmorpg enthusiasts. Another EQ? No. Perhaps another pve Aion with pretty graphics, cut-scenes and music.
But EQ was an evolution of the mmorpg genre. In order for a game to push the genre further, as a benchmark for future games to build upon, there's much in terms of player-centric ecosystem and concentration that transcends a gltsy pve themepark.
/yawn
Perhaps you should read up on the game and review some of the Alpha discussions currently being debated. There are a few interesting directions that SE looks to be taking XIV, even at this early stage. Again, we don't know enough yet, but i'd venture a guess that it will surpass the shallow and glitzy Aion. Music is one of the important aspects that immerses one in a game world.
Clearly we "kiddies" are only excited for the graphics (which are way better than Aion's craptastic graphics). It has nothing to do with the dev interviews and the information for the game's direction. Nothing at all.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Let's not be too romantic. The biggest thing that EQ brought to the genre was the "eye-candy, music and graphics." I would be really hard-pressed to come up with more than one or two non-interface-related things that a.) originated in EQ and not the MUDs that came before it, and b.) are still considered good features in modern MMOs. If it had been released as a text-only game or one with NES-quality graphics, it would have been a forgettable flop. It owes most of its success to what it did not do (nonconsensual PvP) and timing: it was released just as cheap 56k dial-up and AGP graphics cards were becoming commonplace, making gamers receptive to the idea of a persistant 3D world. Which aspects of EQ do you feel made it an evolution of the genre?
Sorry about the late reply (my grandmother broke her hip two months ago and her insurance ran out so my posting can be a bit irregular as need of sleep/relaxing interrupts it).
I tried not being provocative and that didn't get anywhere. Now it is getting somewhere. As to why....well, the unexamined life is not worth living, yes?
As for the "getting it" part, it seemed people were being pretty vague about what "it" was and especially about how FFXIV would be getting "it" When people aren't clear, then it is easy for everyone to think they agree when in fact they do not. Waxing about how great EQ was in vague terms doesn't necessarily mean anyone actually liked the same thing about EQ and hence the hopes that FFXIV would be the same as EQ in some way aren't necessarily the same hopes from person to person.
I haven't seen a lot of specifics on how FFXIV plans on having a sense of community in terms of game mechanics. I'd like to see what it is offering for how people join up to do Guild Leves though (concept sounds ok, but it has been light on details the last time I checked). I do think the more tactically-minded combat should make communication a bigger component and I think that will be a lot of fun and have good social dynamics. I hope they have other social stuff as well.
If all we are talking about is a game that encourages people to do stuff together, then I think there are other games like this. As much as it is misunderstood, SW:TOR should do this (in fact, I might play both FFXIV and TOR). One of the lead designers put out a great post on how a game needs to be designed to support/encourage community. It was very nice to see that they understand that community isn't something that happens magically, but rather something that is strongly influenced by game design. I haven't read anything that direct about other games, but I probably missed someone with FFXIV since I've been kind busy (as I indicated above). I don't suppose you have a link to any relevant Dev interviews?
Well, personally I like a game to be immersive. If there should be maps available that detail where roads go, etc, then I should be able to get a map or start with one. If a quest needs me to go to some place that the quest giver should be able to point to on a map, then I should get a marker on the map. If not, then I'd personally enjoy clues and other things (like tracking) that lead me to where I need to go (as opposed to having to fumble around for a couple hours because the directions were poor and the game provides no indication of where I need to be). I certainly don't want WoW's new quest interface for everything, but it is equally unimmersive when I have to fumble around for an hour because the directions were poorly written (and of course I can't go back to the guy and ask for better directions, because the game doesn't work that way). There's an immersive middle-ground between the two, imho.
As to what Pencilrick said:
1) I think it really depends on what you mean by hand-holding. I'm not sure what we'll get from FFXIV in this regard. Combat should be more interesting. I haven't seen much that indicates it will be substantially different from say WoW before their quest helper patch (as a point of comparison).
2) What game hasn't had forced grouping for some content? Well, besides CO and STO (but those are epic fails). Anyhow, grouping has to be done RIGHT. WoW has forced grouping and heavily encourages you to group for the daily heroic, but that ends up being an anti-community mechanic because there's no challenge for most groups. Forced rofl-stomping is bad. I am NOT saying FFXIV is going to do this, rather I merely want to indicate there are good ways to do group and bad ways. Generally encouraging grouping with more rewards (not necessarily better), more experience, and especially more interesting gameplay (they definitely have this) is the way to go. We're social creatures and we'll group if it is fun and not overly cumbersome.
3) I think this varies from person to person. Some, like myself, have no problem with non-realistic graphics. It would be interesting if this is a significant component of what people view as "like EQ."
4) This is always the hardest thing to do outside of story mysteries (which eventually get solved). We'll have to see how FFXIV does here. I never played EQ (played different MMOs), but this seems like something that is easy to get nostalgic about. Something one overlooked but that someone else didn't might seem like a mystery easily enough. I'm pretty sure EQ didn't have anything all that special here to ensure that a zone felt alive (I think this is part of what you are getting at), but correct me if I am wrong. Certainly there are a LOT of potential tools for this from modern MMOs, but as you say we have no idea what the FFXIV devs are thinking about it.
5) Seems a lot like #3 to me.
Ganen:
Not really, I think it's just a design principle stemming from the MMO's that are current in today's market. They want to make the game more appealing to everyone, or at least to the average player regardless of which market they are from. They want to make money in the end and as for the less classes at the start, eleven launched with only a few classes and now it has a ton of options so I'm not worried about variety.
Listed above is just one response by Ganen that states FF14 will not be anything like the original EQ...
I'm an old school MMO gamer who fell in love with EQ.. That game was the only MMO I ever was addicted to.. It was the only MMO that literally made me feel as If I was in my very own epic neverending D&D Fantasy novel.. EQ was a game that did not cater to illiterate peons like todays cookie cutter eeeezzzzzz mode rollercoaster mmo's... EQ was a hardcore MMORPG for those who literally lived, breathed, and enjoyed the fantasy genre... EQ was a game that was "not kind" to those who enjoy soloing, unless of course you played a Druid or Necro, or a cleric "if you had a manastone" before they were taken out of the game... EQ was also a game that revolved around "grouping" to level and "raiding" to receive the phat lewts, and progress through the epic storyline.
With that said, what makes any of you believe Final Fantasy 14 will be anything like the original EQ and Vanguard???? Based on a interview with Ganen, Final Fantasy 14 will cater to the larger crowd as opposed to the hardcore MMORPG gamers of old like myself.. The developers are creating another EEEZZZZZZ mode WoW clone to appeal to the larger scale of gamers which means it wont be anything like EQ or Vanguard.... I wish it would be, because I've been dying to find a game similar to EQ and Vanguard.. I'm sorry but Final Fantasy 14 will not appeal to those who enjoyed the features of EQ and VG... If anything, Final Fantasy 11 plays more like EQ than FF 14 will.. I hate to be the one to admit this fact, but it's true..
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I'm an old school MMO gamer who fell in love with EQ.. That game was the only MMO I ever was addicted to..
I felt the same way about EQ, the only difference is that I also felt the similar warm feeling playing FFXI. Maybe you have to be a fan of FF in general to have loved FFXI as much. To this day it's hard for me to say that EQ or FFXI was my favorite mmorpg ever because I don't know which one to put that the top of my list... EQ being the cherry popper or SE turning my favorite rpg franchise into an mmo at last!
EQ was incredible, no doubt about that. FFXI took it one step further with skillchains. Depends how you look at it of course. I know of many people that don't like FF because they don't like anime-ish charatcers. Japanese games stem from another world of fantasy. It's all a matter of opinion.
As far as game mechanics and story, have no fear... SE will deliver.
What it all comes down to is the players. Considering FFXI had the friendliest community I've ever dealt with (although NO ONE is perfect) I'd think FFXIV is shaping up to be THE game. THE game could have been *place your favorite mmorpg here*. Take what you want from it. I knew exactly what the OP was talking about.
Bottom line at this point: SE has the potential to make this THE next great mmorpg. Only time will tell, but so should YOU!
<points finger at you>
That's not true. It DOESN'T come down to the players. How people behave online and in a game depends very, very significantly on the mechanics of the situation. People behave quite different on a well moderated forum, over-moderated forum, and unmoderated forum (and that's just the tip of the forum iceberg). WoW has a crappy community not because it is popular, but because the game doesn't do much to foster community-friendly behaviors (and this has gotten worse with the LFD tool, which is poorly designed from a community perspective).
Part of why FFXI had a strong community is because it was so insanely tedious to form groups and then you had to cooperate to do a good job. Now FFXIV definitely has the latter, and it encourages groups too, which is good. I don't think the draconian forced grouping system is needed as long as the devs are mindful to create systems that encourage grouping and engaging in challenging content (e.g. challenging content as a group gives faster rewards than challenging or non-challenging solo content for instance). It is unclear how mindful FFXIV is on this score, but we can be hopeful. (For what it is worth, I again bring up SW:TOR as an example of where the developers have been very explicit in their understanding of how game mechanics affect communities, which is a very good sign).
The devs have said that they will be making it easier to go solo in FFXIV. I think the community will suffer for that reason.
Most people don't want to be polite, civil, and co-operative. Humans are basically selfish screeching monkeys who like to throw feces at each other. It is society's pressures to conform which maintain civility. Take away the need to get along with others, and most will willingly go back into the treetops.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Wow has tons of group-only content.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Well, I'm hoping for my previous comment to be true:
As far as game mechanics and story, have no fear... SE will deliver.
We'll see. Guild Leves look like their system to either allow solo play or really encourage group play (so little information so far). You can choose a difficulty setting, go solo or in a group, have different objectives, etc. It is a question on whether they'll properly encourage group play with this, but I think the new version of skill chains will make group play more compelling. All they need to do is ensure it is more rewarding and also still challenging (WoW fails at challenging with the leveling content as a comparison...well, WoW also fails at group play being all that more compelling while leveling at least).
They have promising components. We'll have to see how they put them together.
A couple of years ago, I would have agreed with you that proper rewards would provide a good grouping environment, but now it's clear that soloers will group for the rewards, and make that experience miserable for all involved. Simply because they are grouping for the carrot, not for the experience.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Until I played the travesty known as FFXIII, I would have agreed with you.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Challenging content and interesting grouping dynamics like Skill Chains mean people have to talk and communicate so they have a battle strategy. That there encourages community. The trick is to make the time it takes to do that still provide good rewards compared to soloing. Granted, if soloing is a lot more efficient for leveling than grouping, then people will solo. I think things blur a bit if they are comparable (grouping still suffers because of the formation time and the hassle of the difficult people you might run into). If grouping is more rewarding, requires some thought, planning, and cooperation to work, and the interface is good, then people will group. I think you really need all of those elements. Thoughtless grouping that's rewarding is WoW's LFD system. More rewarding solo experiences are common in many MMOs today, of course (WoW leveling being a big example). So you really need both good rewards AND content that requires planning, as you can't blindly rush through it and good planning and teamwork will be worth the effort.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think we've seen many games that do all these things together in a good while. I'm hopeful though. I admit this is coming from someone that likes to solo now and then but also likes a good group experience. I don't think those two things can't happen in the same game if designed right.
Would you play the game if you could not gain xp while soloing at all? You could still gain gold, gather crafting mats, earn rep with faction, etc, but you could not level up.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2