Ewoks are pretty cool if you look at them as tactical and strategic geniuses who have put most of their societal resources into military development (seriously, stone age tech WITH air power....that's crazy). I'll grant they don't really cover this much in the movie, but it's a pretty fun viewpoint, imho.
Besides the Ewok song at the end was awesome. Can we at least agree on that?
Hmm, my main problem with RotJ is probably when Luke tosses his Lightsaber away at the end. I mean...shouldn't he at least TRY to defeat the Emperor? I mean, it is all well and good he didn't go over to the Dark Side, but it didn't seem like he needed to toss his life away that blatantly (and I don't think the Emperor defeating him and then using lightning would have changed how Vader would have behaved).
My friend, you have never made a post with which I disagreed more.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
90%+ Jedi/Sith populations is whats gonna ruin it. It's the death knight spree all over again. Why roll a stormtrooper when you can roll a jedi or sith? And if you roll a Stormy, your gonna reroll the second some idiot lightsabers you in the face.
Why would you roll a Jedi when you can be as good a bounty hunter as Jango or Buba fett? Equal to 99% of the jedi, and only bested by some of the greatest jedi ever (Mace Windu/Luke Skywalker) plus a lot of fools luck.
The game is going to be made so that each class can stand up to another class, and not just flop over because its a "counter" class like in so many other games out currently.
The Jedi/Sith aren't going to be the elite of their side. They are the common soldiers in the game. The Bounty Hunters, the Troopers, the Infilitraitor and the Smuggler are the best of the best in their professions. They are there to laugh at the many people who think loljedi I win!
But it IS star wars. Not giving people the option to be jedi is counter productive in a business model to sell more subs/game boxes.
Oh and I Do agree with the OP about the spread of Star Wars butter over wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too big a piece of bread. The crap that is thrown out from there isn't worth it anymore.
Is there any other people out there, who also dislike Star Wars, but choose to play this game for it's promising gameplay and/or the fact that it's Bioware?
It's not Bioware, it's Bioware Austin. Mainly composed of developers from other failed/cancelled/terrible mmorpgs.
Hmm, my main problem with RotJ is probably when Luke tosses his Lightsaber away at the end. I mean...shouldn't he at least TRY to defeat the Emperor? I mean, it is all well and good he didn't go over to the Dark Side, but it didn't seem like he needed to toss his life away that blatantly (and I don't think the Emperor defeating him and then using lightning would have changed how Vader would have behaved).
It is by throwing his lightsaber away that Luke defeats the emperor. In terms of the good/evil myth construction, 'tossing his life away' should be translated as, 'always making the right choice, even if it means sacrificing yourself'. Just as in the story of Jesus - he could have easily ruled over the whole earth, but it was from his aquiescence to be crucified - his sacrifice - that humanity is saved. So....Luke sacrificed himself - turned the other cheek. Made the choice that evil cannot make. When Anniken, faced with the same choice chose to raise his sword, it symbollically represented his complete dissent into evil.
Because Anniken chose selfish wants, he raised his sword and became Vader. Thus, Luke must face this same choice but be strong enough to sacrifice himself for the greater good. This mythic choice broke evil's power.
So, Luke did it because the myth structure Lucas used demands it.
But it isn't lost on me - it would have been viscerally gratifying to see Luke smack down the Emperor. But isn't that the point? The Dark Side resides in those base emotions, when we cater to our visceral wants, we open dark doors inside ourselves....
(Don't take me too seriously - I unfortunately wrote a thesis on this topic for a 'religion in the human experience' course in college.)
Bioware is my favorite developer. ME2 and DAO are the best games I have played for years.
Star Wars has become the biggest hack fest I can think off. It's completely mediocre, ruined by overly merchandise rape. Lucas Arts has done its fair share through the years to pump out run of the mill Star Wars games that sucked. The 70 minute Phantom Menece and Attack of the Clones reviews, on youtube perfectly sums up my feelings about what it has all turned into.
The universe itself is just stupid, and I basically think the old films were ruined when the new ones came out.
And as they have continued to milk it, with Clone Wars and all that other crap. Jedi? Who cares. It's all just pretentious lame and unintersting hacks now. Jedi used to be the coolest thing in the world. I think it's way over-done now. TFU bored me to tears, SWG made it redundant and insignificant, and the new movies destroyed any cool factor they had.
I see that it's link to Star Wars, it's completely zealot hordes of fans that are blinded by some sort of defective defense nostalgia.
So this is just a I-hate-Star-Wars-now thread? Perhaps. But it can not be stated enough, how much of a hack George Lucas and Lucas Arts are.
Of course I will play TOR.. I have to. It's Bioware. Hopefully I will be able to look past it's settingm but god Star Wars is so freaking lame now.
The Matrix sequels were dissapointing, but Star Wars.... Everything about it just screams mediocritiy. I would say that in my dissapointment over medicloriens, stupid anakin skywalker, gungans, jarjar binks, and all the other crap they pulled to ruin the name franchise and universe, that I almost hate it. Ofc, out of dissapointment, but yeah, hate it.
Hate is a strong word, and it's too bad that SWTOR have to suffer from it. I wish I could still enjoy Star Wars. Honestly it's just my loss. I don't win anything by this. I am the one missing out. I am the one being annoyed by something I cant do anything about. I admire people who can just shrug it off and just have fun with the old films and the lore and just still plain love star wars.
Is there any other people out there, who also dislike Star Wars, but choose to play this game for it's promising gameplay and/or the fact that it's Bioware?
Not I for the record I still love Star Wars.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Honestly the First movies ( 4,5,6) where not that great to begin with. They where above average action movies. Only reason they are considered "great" was because of all the special effects. Basically about the same as what the New movies where (1,2,3).
I was just sat here reading your post when I felt a slight breeze behind me and I got this really uneasy feeling. I slowly turned around and to my shock there was this really tall thin guy dressed in what looked like a dark grey nazi uniform. He had a really gaunt face and looked a bit like Peter Cushing from when he worked for Darth Vadar on the Star Destroyer. A very stern looking fellow basicly.
"Who the f**k are you?!.......and what the f**k are you doing in my house?!" I exclaimed.
"I am the Spelling Nazi Overlord and I command you to correct Laleb's mistake" he said menacingly.
"You what?!" I shouted "You want me to point out his spelling mistakes? But.....the vast majority of the kids on this forum dont care about spelling. Why should I do such a thing?"
"Because if you dont then I shall subject you to a deeply menacing stare" he replied.
"Hmmm......ok......and if I do as you ask, you will leave my house?" I asked.
"I will" he said solemnly.
"Very well then. I will do your bidding......but only this once......and you had better not come back again because as I said before there are spelling mistakes and terrible grammar on every page of this website"
Anyway sorry about this but its his fault not mine so dont blame me. Its "were" not "where"......as in "the first movies were not that great", "they were above average" and "what the new movies were".
Honestly the First movies ( 4,5,6) where not that great to begin with. They where above average action movies. Only reason they are considered "great" was because of all the special effects. Basically about the same as what the New movies where (1,2,3).
I was just sat here reading your post when I felt a slight breeze behind me and I got this really uneasy feeling. I slowly turned around and to my shock there was this really tall thin guy dressed in what looked like a dark grey nazi uniform. He had a really gaunt face and looked a bit like Peter Cushing from when he worked for Darth Vadar on the Star Destroyer. A very stern looking fellow basicly.
"Who the f**k are you?!.......and what the f**k are you doing in my house?!" I exclaimed.
"I am the Spelling Nazi Overlord and I command you to correct Laleb's mistake" he said menacingly.
"You what?!" I shouted "You want me to point out his spelling mistakes? But.....the vast majority of the kids on this forum dont care about spelling. Why should I do such a thing?"
"Because if you dont then I shall subject you to a deeply menacing stare" he replied.
"Hmmm......ok......and if I do as you ask, you will leave my house?" I asked.
"I will" he said solemnly.
"Very well then. I will do your bidding......but only this once......and you had better not come back again because as I said before there are spelling mistakes and terrible grammar on every page of this website"
Anyway sorry about this but its his fault not mine so dont blame me. Its "were" not "where"......as in "the first movies were not that great", "they were above average" and "what the new movies were".
Oh good......he's gone now.
Wear did you find that spelling? Their not in my house two, our they? They're gone I think. No weight! There back!
Well since we are all getting our Star Wars geek on let me join in ....
I was really young when the original trilogy came out. I saw both The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi in the movie theaters when they first came out. I owned over 40 Star Wars action figures. Back then Star Wars was it. It wasn't just a string of movies. It was a social phenomenon that redefined the way movies were made. As I've gotten older I realize that the dialogue wasn't the best, but the story and characters were interesting enough that I didn't care. Walter Cronkite actually made an interesting evaluation that I never thought about: Usually in space movies everything looked clean and neat. Not Star Wars. There the spaceships looked more real because they were dirty and actually looked like people used them.
This perhaps explains my dissapointment with the prequal trilogy. It's as if Lucas completely forgot what made Star Wars unique in the first place. Now everything is nice and shiny and the characters were rather wooden and in the case of Jar Jar just down right annoying. And the characters I did like got killed off only to be replaced by less interesting ones. In Episode one we lose both Qui Gon and Darth Maul. Darth Maul is replaced by Count Dooku who is played by a VERY old Christopher Lee. Not exactly a person that strikes fear in anyone and certainly not on the level of Vader or Maul. Obi Wan moves into the Master role and the Padawan role is replaced by a whiny Annakin Skywalker. After an hour of "It's all Obi Wan's fault, " I was just hoping for him to be killed off. That of course can't happen so we're stuck with him as we are Jar Jar, who made me yearn for the slightly less annoying Ewoks.We are introduced to a very cool Jango Fett in episode 2 only to see him killed off at the endl. In Episode 3, again the same thing with General Grievous. Episode 3 is the only one I care to watch in repeats because it actually was pretty good and shows when everything changed. The Clone Wars series is actually pretty good and shows more character development than anything we ever saw in the Prequals. I recomend them highly.
In response to the OP, none of this will ever change what Star Wars meant to me. No amount of revisionism by Lucas will ever make me forget what the movies REALLY looked like and no amount of crap product from here on out will destroy my love for Star Wars. If SWG and its hundreds of jedi, TKMs and ever other canon breaking thing didn't ruin it for me then nothing else possibly can.
I was just sat here reading your post when I felt a slight breeze behind me and I got this really uneasy feeling. I slowly turned around and to my shock there was this really tall thin guy dressed in what looked like a dark grey nazi uniform. He had a really gaunt face and looked a bit like Peter Cushing from when he worked for Darth Vadar on the Star Destroyer. A very stern looking fellow basicly.
"Who the f**k are you?!.......and what the f**k are you doing in my house?!" I exclaimed.
"I am the Spelling Nazi Overlord and I command you to correct Laleb's mistake" he said menacingly.
"You what?!" I shouted "You want me to point out his spelling mistakes? But
Don't start a sentence with "but".
.....the vast majority of the kids on this forum dont care about spelling. Why should I do such a thing?"
"Because if you dont then I shall subject you to a deeply menacing stare" he replied.
"Hmmm......ok......and if I do as you ask, you will leave my house?" I asked.
"I will" he said solemnly.
"Very well then. I will do your bidding......but only this once......and you had better not come back again because as I said before there are spelling mistakes and terrible grammar on every page of this website"
Anyway sorry about this but its
"it's"
his fault not mine so dont blame me. Its
"It's"
"were" not "where"......as in "the first movies were not that great", "they were above average" and "what the new movies were".
Oh good......he's gone now.
Fair play, Dude. You know how this sort of thing works.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Well since we are all getting our Star Wars geek on let me join in ....
I was really young when the original trilogy came out.
I was a teenager when Star Wars was released.
I saw both The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi in the movie theaters when they first came out. I owned over 40 Star Wars action figures. Back then Star Wars was it. It wasn't just a string of movies. It was a social phenomenon that redefined the way movies were made.
For sure.
As I've gotten older I realize that the dialogue wasn't the best, but the story and characters were interesting enough that I didn't care. Walter Cronkite actually made an interesting evaluation that I never thought about: Usually in space movies everything looked clean and neat. Not Star Wars. There the spaceships looked more real because they were dirty and actually looked like people used them.
Good observation.
This perhaps explains my dissapointment with the prequal trilogy. It's as if Lucas completely forgot what made Star Wars unique in the first place. Now everything is nice and shiny and the characters were rather wooden and in the case of Jar Jar just down right annoying. And the characters I did like got killed off only to be replaced by less interesting ones. In Episode one we lose both Qui Gon and Darth Maul.
I never thought much of Qui Gon, but Maul definitely should have been around longer.
Darth Maul is replaced by Count Dooku who is played by a VERY old Christopher Lee. Not exactly a person that strikes fear in anyone and certainly not on the level of Vader or Maul. Obi Wan moves into the Master role and the Padawan role is replaced by a whiny Annakin Skywalker. After an hour of "It's all Obi Wan's fault, " I was just hoping for him to be killed off. That of course can't happen so we're stuck with him as we are Jar Jar, who made me yearn for the slightly less annoying Ewoks.
As much as I hated the Ewoks, I agree.
We are introduced to a very cool Jango Fett in episode 2 only to see him killed off at the endl.
Yeah. Jango was VERY cool. Really bad idea to keep killing off your coolest character in each movie.
In Episode 3, again the same thing with General Grievous. Episode 3 is the only one I care to watch in repeats because it actually was pretty good and shows when everything changed.
A lot of people hate RotS, but I place it third of all the SW films. Just ahead of RotJ. Very dark, and I was genuinely moved when the Jedi were betrayed.
The Clone Wars series is actually pretty good and shows more character development than anything we ever saw in the Prequals. I recomend them highly.
I can't seem to get past the art style. It's very unappealing to me.
In response to the OP, none of this will ever change what Star Wars meant to me. No amount of revisionism by Lucas will ever make me forget what the movies REALLY looked like and no amount of crap product from here on out will destroy my love for Star Wars. If SWG and its hundreds of jedi, TKMs and ever other canon breaking thing didn't ruin it for me then nothing else possibly can.
The IP sure had some very magical moments.
Good post, Kt.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I guess you either will like Star Wars or you will not like it. I personally am on the side that likes the series, but know it has its flaws.
When it comes to TOR though the thing I worry about most is the developer, and the direction they might take the game. Bioware is known for good stories, but I am not sure how good they will be at making a world. I wish them the best of luck as I have only played the first Mass Effect game, and was a bit unimpressed with it all. Just my opinion, and I just hope TOR doesn't turn into a singleplayer game with a monthy subscription fee.
Hmm, my main problem with RotJ is probably when Luke tosses his Lightsaber away at the end. I mean...shouldn't he at least TRY to defeat the Emperor? I mean, it is all well and good he didn't go over to the Dark Side, but it didn't seem like he needed to toss his life away that blatantly (and I don't think the Emperor defeating him and then using lightning would have changed how Vader would have behaved).
It is by throwing his lightsaber away that Luke defeats the emperor. In terms of the good/evil myth construction, 'tossing his life away' should be translated as, 'always making the right choice, even if it means sacrificing yourself'. Just as in the story of Jesus - he could have easily ruled over the whole earth, but it was from his aquiescence to be crucified - his sacrifice - that humanity is saved. So....Luke sacrificed himself - turned the other cheek. Made the choice that evil cannot make. When Anniken, faced with the same choice chose to raise his sword, it symbollically represented his complete dissent into evil.
Because Anniken chose selfish wants, he raised his sword and became Vader. Thus, Luke must face this same choice but be strong enough to sacrifice himself for the greater good. This mythic choice broke evil's power.
So, Luke did it because the myth structure Lucas used demands it.
But it isn't lost on me - it would have been viscerally gratifying to see Luke smack down the Emperor. But isn't that the point? The Dark Side resides in those base emotions, when we cater to our visceral wants, we open dark doors inside ourselves....
(Don't take me too seriously - I unfortunately wrote a thesis on this topic for a 'religion in the human experience' course in college.)
I don't think it needs odd christian parallels to be a good story. Like I said it doesn't make a lot of sense when you consider it logically -- his sacrifice there doesn't save anyone (again, if Luke attacked and lost to the Emperor then Vader still would have turned and the ending would have been much the same with more sense). Note that I am not saying he should have angrily attacked the Emperor or that he should have won, merely that throwing away his weapon doesn't get rid of the evil dictator. He already triumphed over his dark impulses and the dark side by sparing his father.
Ewoks are pretty cool if you look at them as tactical and strategic geniuses who have put most of their societal resources into military development (seriously, stone age tech WITH air power....that's crazy). I'll grant they don't really cover this much in the movie, but it's a pretty fun viewpoint, imho.
Besides the Ewok song at the end was awesome. Can we at least agree on that?
Hmm, my main problem with RotJ is probably when Luke tosses his Lightsaber away at the end. I mean...shouldn't he at least TRY to defeat the Emperor? I mean, it is all well and good he didn't go over to the Dark Side, but it didn't seem like he needed to toss his life away that blatantly (and I don't think the Emperor defeating him and then using lightning would have changed how Vader would have behaved).
My friend, you have never made a post with which I disagreed more.
Ewoks are pretty cool if you look at them as tactical and strategic geniuses who have put most of their societal resources into military development (seriously, stone age tech WITH air power....that's crazy). I'll grant they don't really cover this much in the movie, but it's a pretty fun viewpoint, imho.
Besides the Ewok song at the end was awesome. Can we at least agree on that?
Hmm, my main problem with RotJ is probably when Luke tosses his Lightsaber away at the end. I mean...shouldn't he at least TRY to defeat the Emperor? I mean, it is all well and good he didn't go over to the Dark Side, but it didn't seem like he needed to toss his life away that blatantly (and I don't think the Emperor defeating him and then using lightning would have changed how Vader would have behaved).
My friend, you have never made a post with which I disagreed more.
You didn't like the Ewok song at the end of RotJ?
To be honest, I didn't like it much either. That was one change I didn't mind.
Well since we are all getting our Star Wars geek on let me join in ....
I was really young when the original trilogy came out. I saw both The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi in the movie theaters when they first came out. I owned over 40 Star Wars action figures. Back then Star Wars was it. It wasn't just a string of movies. It was a social phenomenon that redefined the way movies were made. As I've gotten older I realize that the dialogue wasn't the best, but the story and characters were interesting enough that I didn't care. Walter Cronkite actually made an interesting evaluation that I never thought about: Usually in space movies everything looked clean and neat. Not Star Wars. There the spaceships looked more real because they were dirty and actually looked like people used them.
This perhaps explains my dissapointment with the prequal trilogy. It's as if Lucas completely forgot what made Star Wars unique in the first place. Now everything is nice and shiny and the characters were rather wooden and in the case of Jar Jar just down right annoying. And the characters I did like got killed off only to be replaced by less interesting ones. In Episode one we lose both Qui Gon and Darth Maul. Darth Maul is replaced by Count Dooku who is played by a VERY old Christopher Lee. Not exactly a person that strikes fear in anyone and certainly not on the level of Vader or Maul. Obi Wan moves into the Master role and the Padawan role is replaced by a whiny Annakin Skywalker. After an hour of "It's all Obi Wan's fault, " I was just hoping for him to be killed off. That of course can't happen so we're stuck with him as we are Jar Jar, who made me yearn for the slightly less annoying Ewoks.We are introduced to a very cool Jango Fett in episode 2 only to see him killed off at the endl. In Episode 3, again the same thing with General Grievous. Episode 3 is the only one I care to watch in repeats because it actually was pretty good and shows when everything changed. The Clone Wars series is actually pretty good and shows more character development than anything we ever saw in the Prequals. I recomend them highly.
In response to the OP, none of this will ever change what Star Wars meant to me. No amount of revisionism by Lucas will ever make me forget what the movies REALLY looked like and no amount of crap product from here on out will destroy my love for Star Wars. If SWG and its hundreds of jedi, TKMs and ever other canon breaking thing didn't ruin it for me then nothing else possibly can.
The third one of the prequels is the only one of the series thats tolerable. Much closer to what they all should have been in the first place.
The Clone Wars series is good because Anakin isn't a whiny brat. He's an actual hero. Of course, the fact that it has different writers has alot to do with it.
Actualy I'm not much of a fan of Star Wars (or Star Trek for that matter). I like Sci-Fi in generaly but I never really understood the appeal of the "big two" that much. I enjoyed the origional 3 movies...but that's mainly because there wasn't much else to compare them with, they were rather ground breaking. When I picked up the books themselves...I was rather disappointed... IMO Lucas is actually a pretty poor writer. I thought the 3 prequals were utter crap, formulaic and thinly vieled hooks for merchandising.
I'm not a big fan of the lore, the basic story or the established dynamics of that universe...as much as I know them.
I really don't buy into the whole passion = dark side = "evil" vs calm = light side = "good" philosphy that Lucas seems to be pitching in his universe. I'm perfectly fine with simplistic, space opera, good vs evil morality tales. That's not really the problem for me. The problem is that Lucas's basic premise as to what defines "good" and "evil" seems entirely skewed to me. It almost seems like he thought it up one day in kendo class after getting bopped too many times in the noggin with a bamboo stick.
Passion and calm strike me as neither good nor evil....merely states of mind that can be used and lead one to either end.
I also thought the stories and the way many of the events flowed was rather contrived and at some points contradictory.
As far as Sci-Fi offerings, I'd rather see any of the following made into an MMO...
- Warhammer 40K (looking forward to how this turns out)
- Fading Suns
- Serenity
- Traveler/Traveler 2300
- Serenity
-Babylon 5
-BladeRunner
- Starship Troopers
- BattleStar Galactica
.....or something completely origional. Still I think Bioware makes good games....so I'm looking forward to what they can do with this.
If you don't like Star Wars, and you don't like Star Trek, then why are you bothering? Yes, I realize that its Bioware, and frankly I consider them the best game company in the world, but why would you keep tabs on a game you have no interest in? If you know you're not going to like it just by virtue of the world it takes place in, then why be on its forums?
If I know that I'm not going to like Guild Wars II, just by the fact that I don't like Guild Wars, I don't hang around its forums because I know discussion of its content is just going to aggravate me and anything I say is going to aggravate the living crap out of its fans.
I will try the game, but I have the feeling in EU there is not so much SW hype as it used to be.
Perhaps in the US it's another story.
I see very few teenagers excited about SW lore. A complete generation has come and gone without SW Lore.
Another bummer is that in the SF theme, traditionnel RPG elements don't seem to work as good as in a Fantasy setting. Take the uniforms for example. You saw it in TR, you see it in ST, the older SF games etc... Not much variety in those "upgradable and showing off" cloths and uniforms.
I find resurrection (which is standard in fantasy MMOs) not at all believable in SF settings. It's magic, after all.
Don't talk to me about 'clones'. Even a perfect clone is not you.
The third element is the in game voice acting and cinematics. They hamper mmorpg play and are a cross over from single player games.
So "it is Star Wars !" is not equivalent to it being a smash hit automatically. It could be, but a lot of things don't seem to fit the mass market expectations.
I think they will make the game fit MMORPG standards, but that will cause many breaks with the IP.
Why should I play a StarWars game that doesn't feel like Star Wars?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. ~Arthur C. Clarke
It's a very popular and clever quote, but untrue. It's 'magic' to those who don't have the science, but that's just a subjective impression, not the truth.
TV would be 'magic' to some tribe in the Amazon rain forest, but it's just mundane technology to us.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I will try the game, but I have the feeling in EU there is not so much SW hype as it used to be.
Perhaps in the US it's another story.
I see very few teenagers excited about SW lore. A complete generation has come and gone without SW Lore.
Another bummer is that in the SF theme, traditionnel RPG elements don't seem to work as good as in a Fantasy setting. Take the uniforms for example. You saw it in TR, you see it in ST, the older SF games etc... Not much variety in those "upgradable and showing off" cloths and uniforms.
I find resurrection (which is standard in fantasy MMOs) not at all believable in SF settings. It's magic, after all.
Don't talk to me about 'clones'. Even a perfect clone is not you.
The third element is the in game voice acting and cinematics. They hamper mmorpg play and are a cross over from single player games.
So "it is Star Wars !" is not equivalent to it being a smash hit automatically. It could be, but a lot of things don't seem to fit the mass market expectations.
I think they will make the game fit MMORPG standards, but that will cause many breaks with the IP.
Why should I play a StarWars game that doesn't feel like Star Wars?
Why should you play a fantasy game that doesn't feel like a fantasy game? I don't know about you but if I get shot with an arrow or hit with a sword, I get fatally injured, but I've seen humans take tons of hits with swords and never die or get decapitated or lose an arm.
If every game HAS to have a sense of realism, then its no longer a game and its a simulation. I don't want to play a simulation of what would really happen in a star wars world, I want to play a game that I'm going to be able to have fun with and not worry about what happens if the NPC lightsaber wielder I'm fighting gets a lucky hit on me and severs my leg.
Why should you play a fantasy game that doesn't feel like a fantasy game?
I shouldn't. I agree.
I don't know about you but if I get shot with an arrow or hit with a sword, I get fatally injured, but I've seen humans take tons of hits with swords and never die or get decapitated or lose an arm.
I have seen people in armour take several hits with medieval weapons and survive. You make a good point, but magic can cover a lot of plot holes.
If every game HAS to have a sense of realism, then its no longer a game and its a simulation.
That's a strawman. I wasn't talking about all games, and I didn't mention realism. My concern is the 'feel' of the IP. Requiring multiple hits to kill isn't Star Wars.
I don't want to play a simulation of what would really happen in a star wars world, I want to play a game that I'm going to be able to have fun with and not worry about what happens if the NPC lightsaber wielder I'm fighting gets a lucky hit on me and severs my leg.
I want combat to have consquences.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Why should you play a fantasy game that doesn't feel like a fantasy game?
I shouldn't. I agree.
I don't know about you but if I get shot with an arrow or hit with a sword, I get fatally injured, but I've seen humans take tons of hits with swords and never die or get decapitated or lose an arm.
I have seen people in armour take several hits with medieval weapons and survive. You make a good point, but magic can cover a lot of plot holes.
If every game HAS to have a sense of realism, then its no longer a game and its a simulation.
That's a strawman. I wasn't talking about all games, and I didn't mention realism. My concern is the 'feel' of the IP. Requiring multiple hits to kill isn't Star Wars.
I don't want to play a simulation of what would really happen in a star wars world, I want to play a game that I'm going to be able to have fun with and not worry about what happens if the NPC lightsaber wielder I'm fighting gets a lucky hit on me and severs my leg.
I want combat to have consquences.
Combat does have consequences, you lose, you die, most probably there will be a cost associated with that. Thats the way games work. Its not a strawman argument, its an observation, you are looking for a realistic star wars simulation with arms being cut off and droids exploding, but thats not what this is. This is a game just like the KOTOR games were games, and the battlefront series were games, and Jedi Academy was a game. It didn't diminish the gameplay aspects of those games to not have 1 hit kills and loss of limbs, and in regards of what we want and what we'll get, .... well... we don't always get what we want.
I would like more FPS style combat, but I'm not going to get it. I also want space combat on launch but if I don't get that I won't throw a fit over it either. The game doesn't feel less like star wars to me because of it, mainly because most of the star wars games I've ever played never had those features in the first place, I don't see how there should have been an expectation for them to implement it in an MMO.
Comments
My friend, you have never made a post with which I disagreed more.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Why would you roll a Jedi when you can be as good a bounty hunter as Jango or Buba fett? Equal to 99% of the jedi, and only bested by some of the greatest jedi ever (Mace Windu/Luke Skywalker) plus a lot of fools luck.
The game is going to be made so that each class can stand up to another class, and not just flop over because its a "counter" class like in so many other games out currently.
The Jedi/Sith aren't going to be the elite of their side. They are the common soldiers in the game. The Bounty Hunters, the Troopers, the Infilitraitor and the Smuggler are the best of the best in their professions. They are there to laugh at the many people who think loljedi I win!
But it IS star wars. Not giving people the option to be jedi is counter productive in a business model to sell more subs/game boxes.
Oh and I Do agree with the OP about the spread of Star Wars butter over wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too big a piece of bread. The crap that is thrown out from there isn't worth it anymore.
It's not Bioware, it's Bioware Austin. Mainly composed of developers from other failed/cancelled/terrible mmorpgs.
It is by throwing his lightsaber away that Luke defeats the emperor. In terms of the good/evil myth construction, 'tossing his life away' should be translated as, 'always making the right choice, even if it means sacrificing yourself'. Just as in the story of Jesus - he could have easily ruled over the whole earth, but it was from his aquiescence to be crucified - his sacrifice - that humanity is saved. So....Luke sacrificed himself - turned the other cheek. Made the choice that evil cannot make. When Anniken, faced with the same choice chose to raise his sword, it symbollically represented his complete dissent into evil.
Because Anniken chose selfish wants, he raised his sword and became Vader. Thus, Luke must face this same choice but be strong enough to sacrifice himself for the greater good. This mythic choice broke evil's power.
So, Luke did it because the myth structure Lucas used demands it.
But it isn't lost on me - it would have been viscerally gratifying to see Luke smack down the Emperor. But isn't that the point? The Dark Side resides in those base emotions, when we cater to our visceral wants, we open dark doors inside ourselves....
(Don't take me too seriously - I unfortunately wrote a thesis on this topic for a 'religion in the human experience' course in college.)
Not I for the record I still love Star Wars.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I was just sat here reading your post when I felt a slight breeze behind me and I got this really uneasy feeling. I slowly turned around and to my shock there was this really tall thin guy dressed in what looked like a dark grey nazi uniform. He had a really gaunt face and looked a bit like Peter Cushing from when he worked for Darth Vadar on the Star Destroyer. A very stern looking fellow basicly.
"Who the f**k are you?!.......and what the f**k are you doing in my house?!" I exclaimed.
"I am the Spelling Nazi Overlord and I command you to correct Laleb's mistake" he said menacingly.
"You what?!" I shouted "You want me to point out his spelling mistakes? But.....the vast majority of the kids on this forum dont care about spelling. Why should I do such a thing?"
"Because if you dont then I shall subject you to a deeply menacing stare" he replied.
"Hmmm......ok......and if I do as you ask, you will leave my house?" I asked.
"I will" he said solemnly.
"Very well then. I will do your bidding......but only this once......and you had better not come back again because as I said before there are spelling mistakes and terrible grammar on every page of this website"
Anyway sorry about this but its his fault not mine so dont blame me. Its "were" not "where"......as in "the first movies were not that great", "they were above average" and "what the new movies were".
Oh good......he's gone now.
Wear did you find that spelling? Their not in my house two, our they? They're gone I think. No weight! There back!
Well since we are all getting our Star Wars geek on let me join in ....
I was really young when the original trilogy came out. I saw both The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi in the movie theaters when they first came out. I owned over 40 Star Wars action figures. Back then Star Wars was it. It wasn't just a string of movies. It was a social phenomenon that redefined the way movies were made. As I've gotten older I realize that the dialogue wasn't the best, but the story and characters were interesting enough that I didn't care. Walter Cronkite actually made an interesting evaluation that I never thought about: Usually in space movies everything looked clean and neat. Not Star Wars. There the spaceships looked more real because they were dirty and actually looked like people used them.
This perhaps explains my dissapointment with the prequal trilogy. It's as if Lucas completely forgot what made Star Wars unique in the first place. Now everything is nice and shiny and the characters were rather wooden and in the case of Jar Jar just down right annoying. And the characters I did like got killed off only to be replaced by less interesting ones. In Episode one we lose both Qui Gon and Darth Maul. Darth Maul is replaced by Count Dooku who is played by a VERY old Christopher Lee. Not exactly a person that strikes fear in anyone and certainly not on the level of Vader or Maul. Obi Wan moves into the Master role and the Padawan role is replaced by a whiny Annakin Skywalker. After an hour of "It's all Obi Wan's fault, " I was just hoping for him to be killed off. That of course can't happen so we're stuck with him as we are Jar Jar, who made me yearn for the slightly less annoying Ewoks.We are introduced to a very cool Jango Fett in episode 2 only to see him killed off at the endl. In Episode 3, again the same thing with General Grievous. Episode 3 is the only one I care to watch in repeats because it actually was pretty good and shows when everything changed. The Clone Wars series is actually pretty good and shows more character development than anything we ever saw in the Prequals. I recomend them highly.
In response to the OP, none of this will ever change what Star Wars meant to me. No amount of revisionism by Lucas will ever make me forget what the movies REALLY looked like and no amount of crap product from here on out will destroy my love for Star Wars. If SWG and its hundreds of jedi, TKMs and ever other canon breaking thing didn't ruin it for me then nothing else possibly can.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Why thank you!
And I HIGHLY suggest that people watch them. They are hilarious and very spot on and not safe for work or for most first dates.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Fair play, Dude. You know how this sort of thing works.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The IP sure had some very magical moments.
Good post, Kt.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I guess you either will like Star Wars or you will not like it. I personally am on the side that likes the series, but know it has its flaws.
When it comes to TOR though the thing I worry about most is the developer, and the direction they might take the game. Bioware is known for good stories, but I am not sure how good they will be at making a world. I wish them the best of luck as I have only played the first Mass Effect game, and was a bit unimpressed with it all. Just my opinion, and I just hope TOR doesn't turn into a singleplayer game with a monthy subscription fee.
I don't think it needs odd christian parallels to be a good story. Like I said it doesn't make a lot of sense when you consider it logically -- his sacrifice there doesn't save anyone (again, if Luke attacked and lost to the Emperor then Vader still would have turned and the ending would have been much the same with more sense). Note that I am not saying he should have angrily attacked the Emperor or that he should have won, merely that throwing away his weapon doesn't get rid of the evil dictator. He already triumphed over his dark impulses and the dark side by sparing his father.
You didn't like the Ewok song at the end of RotJ?
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I hated it with a passion. It was like teddy bears celebrating winning the big football game.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I agree. I actually died inside. Just a bit.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The third one of the prequels is the only one of the series thats tolerable. Much closer to what they all should have been in the first place.
The Clone Wars series is good because Anakin isn't a whiny brat. He's an actual hero. Of course, the fact that it has different writers has alot to do with it.
Actualy I'm not much of a fan of Star Wars (or Star Trek for that matter). I like Sci-Fi in generaly but I never really understood the appeal of the "big two" that much. I enjoyed the origional 3 movies...but that's mainly because there wasn't much else to compare them with, they were rather ground breaking. When I picked up the books themselves...I was rather disappointed... IMO Lucas is actually a pretty poor writer. I thought the 3 prequals were utter crap, formulaic and thinly vieled hooks for merchandising.
I'm not a big fan of the lore, the basic story or the established dynamics of that universe...as much as I know them.
I really don't buy into the whole passion = dark side = "evil" vs calm = light side = "good" philosphy that Lucas seems to be pitching in his universe. I'm perfectly fine with simplistic, space opera, good vs evil morality tales. That's not really the problem for me. The problem is that Lucas's basic premise as to what defines "good" and "evil" seems entirely skewed to me. It almost seems like he thought it up one day in kendo class after getting bopped too many times in the noggin with a bamboo stick.
Passion and calm strike me as neither good nor evil....merely states of mind that can be used and lead one to either end.
I also thought the stories and the way many of the events flowed was rather contrived and at some points contradictory.
As far as Sci-Fi offerings, I'd rather see any of the following made into an MMO...
- Warhammer 40K (looking forward to how this turns out)
- Fading Suns
- Serenity
- Traveler/Traveler 2300
- Serenity
-Babylon 5
-BladeRunner
- Starship Troopers
- BattleStar Galactica
.....or something completely origional. Still I think Bioware makes good games....so I'm looking forward to what they can do with this.
If you don't like Star Wars, and you don't like Star Trek, then why are you bothering? Yes, I realize that its Bioware, and frankly I consider them the best game company in the world, but why would you keep tabs on a game you have no interest in? If you know you're not going to like it just by virtue of the world it takes place in, then why be on its forums?
If I know that I'm not going to like Guild Wars II, just by the fact that I don't like Guild Wars, I don't hang around its forums because I know discussion of its content is just going to aggravate me and anything I say is going to aggravate the living crap out of its fans.
I'm just curious.
I think they will make the game fit MMORPG standards, but that will cause many breaks with the IP.
Why should I play a StarWars game that doesn't feel like Star Wars?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
It's a very popular and clever quote, but untrue. It's 'magic' to those who don't have the science, but that's just a subjective impression, not the truth.
TV would be 'magic' to some tribe in the Amazon rain forest, but it's just mundane technology to us.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Why should you play a fantasy game that doesn't feel like a fantasy game? I don't know about you but if I get shot with an arrow or hit with a sword, I get fatally injured, but I've seen humans take tons of hits with swords and never die or get decapitated or lose an arm.
If every game HAS to have a sense of realism, then its no longer a game and its a simulation. I don't want to play a simulation of what would really happen in a star wars world, I want to play a game that I'm going to be able to have fun with and not worry about what happens if the NPC lightsaber wielder I'm fighting gets a lucky hit on me and severs my leg.
I want combat to have consquences.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Combat does have consequences, you lose, you die, most probably there will be a cost associated with that. Thats the way games work. Its not a strawman argument, its an observation, you are looking for a realistic star wars simulation with arms being cut off and droids exploding, but thats not what this is. This is a game just like the KOTOR games were games, and the battlefront series were games, and Jedi Academy was a game. It didn't diminish the gameplay aspects of those games to not have 1 hit kills and loss of limbs, and in regards of what we want and what we'll get, .... well... we don't always get what we want.
I would like more FPS style combat, but I'm not going to get it. I also want space combat on launch but if I don't get that I won't throw a fit over it either. The game doesn't feel less like star wars to me because of it, mainly because most of the star wars games I've ever played never had those features in the first place, I don't see how there should have been an expectation for them to implement it in an MMO.