Combat does have consequences, you lose, you die, most probably there will be a cost associated with that.
Want to bet on that?
Thats the way games work. Its not a strawman argument, its an observation, you are looking for a realistic star wars simulation with arms being cut off and droids exploding, but thats not what this is.
Thanks for stating the obvious. It isn't what this is - which is what I am complaining about.
This is a game just like the KOTOR games were games, and the battlefront series were games, and Jedi Academy was a game. It didn't diminish the gameplay aspects of those games to not have 1 hit kills and loss of limbs,
Yes, it did.
and in regards of what we want and what we'll get, .... well... we don't always get what we want.
I would like more FPS style combat, but I'm not going to get it. I also want space combat on launch but if I don't get that I won't throw a fit over it either. The game doesn't feel less like star wars to me because of it, mainly because most of the star wars games I've ever played never had those features in the first place,
You're basing your expectations on other games, not the IP itself. The games aren't Star Wars. The movies are Star Wars. Everything else is an adaptation of the IP.
I don't see how there should have been an expectation for them to implement it in an MMO.
Look at the films.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I think the films went downhill after ep 5 due to the success of the merchandising and them having everything after deliberately targeted to sell more merchandise to the kids
as for swtor don't forget it's star wars by degrees of seperation. swtor is based on the kotor game which are based on the kotor comics which are based on star wars(might be another one in there aswell)
and yes, this is likely to be 90% jedi/sith game accept it
Why should you play a fantasy game that doesn't feel like a fantasy game?
I shouldn't. I agree.
/agree
I don't know about you but if I get shot with an arrow or hit with a sword, I get fatally injured, but I've seen humans take tons of hits with swords and never die or get decapitated or lose an arm.
I have seen people in armour take several hits with medieval weapons and survive. You make a good point, but magic can cover a lot of plot holes.
/agree
If every game HAS to have a sense of realism, then its no longer a game and its a simulation.
That's a strawman. I wasn't talking about all games, and I didn't mention realism. My concern is the 'feel' of the IP. Requiring multiple hits to kill isn't Star Wars.
/agree
I don't want to play a simulation of what would really happen in a star wars world, I want to play a game that I'm going to be able to have fun with and not worry about what happens if the NPC lightsaber wielder I'm fighting gets a lucky hit on me and severs my leg.
Combat does have consequences, you lose, you die, most probably there will be a cost associated with that.
Want to bet on that?
Thats the way games work. Its not a strawman argument, its an observation, you are looking for a realistic star wars simulation with arms being cut off and droids exploding, but thats not what this is.
Thanks for stating the obvious. It isn't what this is - which is what I am complaining about.
This is a game just like the KOTOR games were games, and the battlefront series were games, and Jedi Academy was a game. It didn't diminish the gameplay aspects of those games to not have 1 hit kills and loss of limbs,
Yes, it did.
and in regards of what we want and what we'll get, .... well... we don't always get what we want.
I would like more FPS style combat, but I'm not going to get it. I also want space combat on launch but if I don't get that I won't throw a fit over it either. The game doesn't feel less like star wars to me because of it, mainly because most of the star wars games I've ever played never had those features in the first place,
You're basing your expectations on other games, not the IP itself. The games aren't Star Wars. The movies are Star Wars. Everything else is an adaptation of the IP.
I don't see how there should have been an expectation for them to implement it in an MMO.
Look at the films.
Yes I would like to bet that dying has consequences.
1 Hit kills did not diminish gameplay as the games were still widely accepted and successful. It only ruined the gameplay, in your opinion, which is why you may not like them. That doesn't mean they were widely sought as lacking any features because there were no loss of limbs. I don't think I've ever read a star wars review that said "We docked points because my droid didn't explode or I didn't cut off the sith lords hand when I hit him"
I'm basing my expectations on what all other star wars games had, its the way the IP is. Even on the first star wars games back on the super nintendo they didn't have limb loss, why should you expect it in an MMO? You shouldn't. What you are basing your opinion on is entitlement, and what you think you deserve, this is just an insignificant gripe if you take into account all of the other things that are implemented that signifies the star wars IP.
Has there EVER been a Star Wars game where you die after being shot once? My favorites were Battlefront, Battlegrounds, KOTOR and Force Unleashed. All of them sold well, all of them felt like Star Wars and none of them had one shot kills.
@ OP these games are a buisness and the controlling companies will ring any money of a popular franchisae to make more of it. Be that you dislike or love the suppossed IP still remains, it will get made, people will pay to play and have fun for a while.
Is there any other people out there, who also dislike Star Wars, but choose to play this game for it's promising gameplay and/or the fact that it's Bioware?
It's not Bioware, it's Bioware Austin. Mainly composed of developers from other failed/cancelled/terrible mmorpgs.
Austin, Texas have produced a lot of crap over the years.
Why can't the failures just leave the business?
And not being able to make a HK47 type character really turned me off from the game so I will wait until they implement it.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Originally posted by Mellow44 Originally posted by MrBoots
Originally posted by pingo
Is there any other people out there, who also dislike Star Wars, but choose to play this game for it's promising gameplay and/or the fact that it's Bioware?
It's not Bioware, it's Bioware Austin. Mainly composed of developers from other failed/cancelled/terrible mmorpgs. Austin, Texas have produced a lot of crap over the years. Why can't the failures just leave the business? And not being able to make a HK47 type character really turned me off from the game so I will wait until they implement it.
Is your point that the city of Austin, Texas is doomed to producing bad games?
Combat does have consequences, you lose, you die, most probably there will be a cost associated with that.
Want to bet on that?
Thats the way games work. Its not a strawman argument, its an observation, you are looking for a realistic star wars simulation with arms being cut off and droids exploding, but thats not what this is.
Thanks for stating the obvious. It isn't what this is - which is what I am complaining about.
This is a game just like the KOTOR games were games, and the battlefront series were games, and Jedi Academy was a game. It didn't diminish the gameplay aspects of those games to not have 1 hit kills and loss of limbs,
Yes, it did.
and in regards of what we want and what we'll get, .... well... we don't always get what we want.
I would like more FPS style combat, but I'm not going to get it. I also want space combat on launch but if I don't get that I won't throw a fit over it either. The game doesn't feel less like star wars to me because of it, mainly because most of the star wars games I've ever played never had those features in the first place,
You're basing your expectations on other games, not the IP itself. The games aren't Star Wars. The movies are Star Wars. Everything else is an adaptation of the IP.
I don't see how there should have been an expectation for them to implement it in an MMO.
Look at the films.
So you are arguing that the games sucked because the characters couldn't cut limbs off... wtf?
Why should you play a fantasy game that doesn't feel like a fantasy game?
I shouldn't. I agree.
I don't know about you but if I get shot with an arrow or hit with a sword, I get fatally injured, but I've seen humans take tons of hits with swords and never die or get decapitated or lose an arm.
I have seen people in armour take several hits with medieval weapons and survive. You make a good point, but magic can cover a lot of plot holes.
If every game HAS to have a sense of realism, then its no longer a game and its a simulation.
That's a strawman. I wasn't talking about all games, and I didn't mention realism. My concern is the 'feel' of the IP. Requiring multiple hits to kill isn't Star Wars.
I don't want to play a simulation of what would really happen in a star wars world, I want to play a game that I'm going to be able to have fun with and not worry about what happens if the NPC lightsaber wielder I'm fighting gets a lucky hit on me and severs my leg.
Originally posted by greed0104 Originally posted by MMO_Doubter
Originally posted by maskedweasel
Why should you play a fantasy game that doesn't feel like a fantasy game? I shouldn't. I agree. I don't know about you but if I get shot with an arrow or hit with a sword, I get fatally injured, but I've seen humans take tons of hits with swords and never die or get decapitated or lose an arm. I have seen people in armour take several hits with medieval weapons and survive. You make a good point, but magic can cover a lot of plot holes. If every game HAS to have a sense of realism, then its no longer a game and its a simulation. That's a strawman. I wasn't talking about all games, and I didn't mention realism. My concern is the 'feel' of the IP. Requiring multiple hits to kill isn't Star Wars. I don't want to play a simulation of what would really happen in a star wars world, I want to play a game that I'm going to be able to have fun with and not worry about what happens if the NPC lightsaber wielder I'm fighting gets a lucky hit on me and severs my leg.
Bioware is my favorite developer. ME2 and DAO are the best games I have played for years.
Star Wars has become the biggest hack fest I can think off. It's completely mediocre, ruined by overly merchandise rape. Lucas Arts has done its fair share through the years to pump out run of the mill Star Wars games that sucked. The 70 minute Phantom Menece and Attack of the Clones reviews, on youtube perfectly sums up my feelings about what it has all turned into.
The universe itself is just stupid, and I basically think the old films were ruined when the new ones came out.
And as they have continued to milk it, with Clone Wars and all that other crap. Jedi? Who cares. It's all just pretentious lame and unintersting hacks now. Jedi used to be the coolest thing in the world. I think it's way over-done now. TFU bored me to tears, SWG made it redundant and insignificant, and the new movies destroyed any cool factor they had.
I see that it's link to Star Wars, it's completely zealot hordes of fans that are blinded by some sort of defective defense nostalgia.
So this is just a I-hate-Star-Wars-now thread? Perhaps. But it can not be stated enough, how much of a hack George Lucas and Lucas Arts are.
Of course I will play TOR.. I have to. It's Bioware. Hopefully I will be able to look past it's settingm but god Star Wars is so freaking lame now.
The Matrix sequels were dissapointing, but Star Wars.... Everything about it just screams mediocritiy. I would say that in my dissapointment over medicloriens, stupid anakin skywalker, gungans, jarjar binks, and all the other crap they pulled to ruin the name franchise and universe, that I almost hate it. Ofc, out of dissapointment, but yeah, hate it.
Hate is a strong word, and it's too bad that SWTOR have to suffer from it. I wish I could still enjoy Star Wars. Honestly it's just my loss. I don't win anything by this. I am the one missing out. I am the one being annoyed by something I cant do anything about. I admire people who can just shrug it off and just have fun with the old films and the lore and just still plain love star wars.
Is there any other people out there, who also dislike Star Wars, but choose to play this game for it's promising gameplay and/or the fact that it's Bioware?
I fully agree OP, Star Wars sucks now and it has sucked for quite a while. The soecial editions of the original trilogy were horrible, they ruined really good movies, the prequels were a complete and utter joke, and the Clone Wars CGI cartoon is dumb and crap.
Here's the link to the 70 minute Phantom Menace review the OP was talking about:
These reviews are great and they do a good job of pointing out the flaws in these movies.
That all being said, I like the original Star Wars trilogy, I like Bioware games, I've liked every one I've ever played, and I love KOTOR, KOTOR was an amazing game. So, despite the currently shoddy and crappy nature of current Star Wars I think SWTOR will be a great game.
Also, I would never use the "But it's Star Wars!!" excuse to justify playing this game. Despite the fact that I'm a huge Star Trek fan, I roast Star Trek Online endlessly for being the biggest pile of crap the MMO genre has seen in years. I refuse to play it just because it's Star Trek (unlike many other Star Trek fans out there who are more tolerant of exposing themselves to constant torture than I am) and if it turns out this game sucks, I will also refuse to play it.
However, currently everything I'm seeing is convincing me that SWTOR will be a good MMORPG and a worthy sequel to KOTOR. At this stage of the development of STO there were major warning bells going off for me and I was becoming pretty sure Cryptic was going to ship a turd in a Star Trek wrapping, but I'm really not sensing the same thing about SWTOR at all.
Kindly disagree. They were never about special effects to me, it was much deeper. As someone previously stated, it you weren't around back then, i don't think you could possibly understand.
Yeah, I saw them in the theatre when they were first released, and there was something special about the first two. Jedi was mostly awful, really.
The effects certainly added a lot of 'wow' to the movies, but there was heart in the story, as well.
Jedi had some great scenes, like Lando charging the Death Star in the Falcon, the final battle between Vader and Luke (it still gets my heart pumping to this day,) and the Emperor was such a great character.
It's just too bad these scenes were interspersed with those super awful (and incredibly silly) Ewok bits. Ugh.
Honestly the First movies ( 4,5,6) where not that great to begin with. They where above average action movies. Only reason they are considered "great" was because of all the special effects. Basically about the same as what the New movies where (1,2,3).
Seriously? I can't understand how anyone could objectively say that at least A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back aren't great films. They do use common fiction tropes, but then turn them all on their heads with an unreal setting and great twists. The "No, I am your father!" line was a huge cinematic twist ending before movies like The Usual Suspects and The Sixth Sense were ever concieved. The writing is quite good (mainly becvause Lucas had to write 50 drafts of each movie, then get script doctors help him to fix it up, whereas for the prequels they filmed his very first drafts pretty much,) the action is tight, there are no superfluous scenes (which is why the Special Editions are such a travesty,) the pacing is perfect, and yes the special effects are top notch.
I was around back then, but I can still recognize a great film when I see one. This is why I'm a huge fan of The Seven Samurai, or Casablanca (it really set me on a biol when people refuse to watch them just because they are in black and white.)
The only way I can see anyone saying that these movies aren't that good is if they hate sci-fi/fantasy films in general.
(By the way, if you've only seen the DVD editions or the Special Editions, try to find the original cuts of the original trilogy. They are about 10 billion times better than the Special Editions.)
Bioware is my favorite developer. ME2 and DAO are the best games I have played for years.
Star Wars has become the biggest hack fest I can think off. It's completely mediocre, ruined by overly merchandise rape. Lucas Arts has done its fair share through the years to pump out run of the mill Star Wars games that sucked. The 70 minute Phantom Menece and Attack of the Clones reviews, on youtube perfectly sums up my feelings about what it has all turned into.
The universe itself is just stupid, and I basically think the old films were ruined when the new ones came out.
And as they have continued to milk it, with Clone Wars and all that other crap. Jedi? Who cares. It's all just pretentious lame and unintersting hacks now. Jedi used to be the coolest thing in the world. I think it's way over-done now. TFU bored me to tears, SWG made it redundant and insignificant, and the new movies destroyed any cool factor they had.
I see that it's link to Star Wars, it's completely zealot hordes of fans that are blinded by some sort of defective defense nostalgia.
So this is just a I-hate-Star-Wars-now thread? Perhaps. But it can not be stated enough, how much of a hack George Lucas and Lucas Arts are.
Of course I will play TOR.. I have to. It's Bioware. Hopefully I will be able to look past it's settingm but god Star Wars is so freaking lame now.
The Matrix sequels were dissapointing, but Star Wars.... Everything about it just screams mediocritiy. I would say that in my dissapointment over medicloriens, stupid anakin skywalker, gungans, jarjar binks, and all the other crap they pulled to ruin the name franchise and universe, that I almost hate it. Ofc, out of dissapointment, but yeah, hate it.
Hate is a strong word, and it's too bad that SWTOR have to suffer from it. I wish I could still enjoy Star Wars. Honestly it's just my loss. I don't win anything by this. I am the one missing out. I am the one being annoyed by something I cant do anything about. I admire people who can just shrug it off and just have fun with the old films and the lore and just still plain love star wars.
Is there any other people out there, who also dislike Star Wars, but choose to play this game for it's promising gameplay and/or the fact that it's Bioware?
I fully agree OP, Star Wars sucks now and it has sucked for quite a while. The soecial editions of the original trilogy were horrible, they ruined really good movies, the prequels were a complete and utter joke, and the Clone Wars CGI cartoon is dumb and crap.
Here's the link to the 70 minute Phantom Menace review the OP was talking about:
These reviews are great and they do a good job of pointing out the flaws in these movies.
That all being said, I like the original Star Wars trilogy, I like Bioware games, I've liked every one I've ever played, and I love KOTOR, KOTOR was an amazing game. So, despite the currently shoddy and crappy nature of current Star Wars I think SWTOR will be a great game.
Also, I would never use the "But it's Star Wars!!" excuse to justify playing this game. Despite the fact that I'm a huge Star Trek fan, I roast Star Trek Online endlessly for being the biggest pile of crap the MMO genre has seen in years. I refuse to play it just because it's Star Trek (unlike many other Star Trek fans out there who are more tolerant of exposing themselves to constant torture than I am) and if it turns out this game sucks, I will also refuse to play it.
However, currently everything I'm seeing is convincing me that SWTOR will be a good MMORPG and a worthy sequel to KOTOR. At this stage of the development of STO there were major warning bells going off for me and I was becoming pretty sure Cryptic was going to ship a turd in a Star Trek wrapping, but I'm really not sensing the same thing about SWTOR at all.
I don't think I would use those YouTube links and say that they are "serious" reviews. They are parodies of reviews and some fan comments. But, humor is often wasted on the humorless.
Xondar, if you think Star Wars sucks so bad then why the hell are you posting on this game forum?
You mistake me, I'm a huge fan of Star Wars. The Empire Strikes Back is probably my second favourite science fiction movie ever (after The Wrath of Khan) and in general I think the original trilogy are cinematic masterpieces (except for the Ewok scenes.)
I think RotJ was the start of the downfall because GL in his infinte wisdom decided to aim the IP more at kids. Ewoks were really my first WTF? moment with Star Wars, and it went downhill after that. RotJ would have been much better if you replaced Ewoks with, oh, anything not furry or talking like retards.
According to rumour - they were originally going to be Wookiees. That would have been a lot cooler.
Ewoks are pretty cool if you look at them as tactical and strategic geniuses who have put most of their societal resources into military development (seriously, stone age tech WITH air power....that's crazy). I'll grant they don't really cover this much in the movie, but it's a pretty fun viewpoint, imho.
Besides the Ewok song at the end was awesome. Can we at least agree on that?
Hmm, my main problem with RotJ is probably when Luke tosses his Lightsaber away at the end. I mean...shouldn't he at least TRY to defeat the Emperor? I mean, it is all well and good he didn't go over to the Dark Side, but it didn't seem like he needed to toss his life away that blatantly (and I don't think the Emperor defeating him and then using lightning would have changed how Vader would have behaved).
Isn't that the entire point of that scene? Luke had three choices: join Vader and defeat the Emperor to rule the galaxy with him as father and son (proposed in Empire,) defeat Vader and rule the galaxy with the Emperor as his new apprentice (hinted at in Empire in the scene in the cave,) or none of the above and stay true to the Light Side of the Force. He chose option three, and that option is what inspired Vader to reject the Dark Side. Thus by rejecting the Emperor and being willing to forfiet his life for the Light Side of the Force he got the redemption of his father.
Vader wasn't redeemed until he saw his son's sacrifice. He looks from Luke's face as he writhes in pain from the Emperor's force lightning to the Emperor's face as it twists in utter hate and contempt for Luke. That's when he decides to reject the Dark Side and to save his son's life by tossing the Emperor down the pit.
I don't think I would use those YouTube links and say that they are "serious" reviews. They are parodies of reviews and some fan comments. But, humor is often wasted on the humorless.
They are serious reviews, but that's part of the brilliance of the reviewer. I read an interview with RedLetterMedia and he said he originally wanted to do Star Trek reviews (his first review was Star Trek: Generations, he eventually reviewed all the TNG movies) but he figured out that no one wanted to listen to his voice for 40+ minutes and that he'd come off as an arrogant douchebag. So he invented the character he does the reviews as.
The brilliance in the reviews is that he is giving an honest and truthful critique of the films he reviews, one can't help but agree with what he says, but he's also satirizing fanboys and know-it-alls with his reviews (he often points out how something is different, then says "I don't like things that are different" and his inability to say the word "protagonist" are prime examples of this humour.)
These reviews work on so many levels, that's why they're so great.
Xondar, if you think Star Wars sucks so bad then why the hell are you posting on this game forum?
You mistake me, I'm a huge fan of Star Wars. The Empire Strikes Back is probably my second favourite science fiction movie ever (after The Wrath of Khan) and in general I think the original trilogy are cinematic masterpieces (except for the Ewok scenes.)
It's the prequel trilogy that I loathe.
The prequels I can agree with. You made it appear as though you think the whole thing sucks, and I simply can't agree with that. Its just the prequels that are bad. E ven the Clone Wars animated show is actually pretty good because they don't make Anakin out to be a whiny baby. The show shows us that he IS a hero and a friend with a dark side streak.
It shows the combat pretty well, and have to say it has me fairly excited, especially loving the ragdolling. It just screams imbalance to me though, seems like troopers will flatten a melee user, but oh well sabers all the way!
If 20-30 years in the future they decide to make 3 more Lord of the Rings movies and they are in a similar vein as the prequel trilogy will you turn on Lord of the Rings as well? Will you proclaim that Tolkien or Jackson are hacks and say LoTR is lame?
If, in 20-30 years, they make 3 more LoTR movies starring the latest boy band as a raggedy bunch of lovable ruffian hobbits who, while accompanied by Barney the purple talking dinosaur, discover that Gandalf's magic actually comes from sour phlegm then yes, I will say Jackson is a hack. Of course, to catch up to Lucas he would then have to follow up all that with a weekly computer generated cartoon called "Hobbit Babies" and their movie "Hobbit Babies go to Paris"
Isn't that the entire point of that scene? Luke had three choices: join Vader and defeat the Emperor to rule the galaxy with him as father and son (proposed in Empire,) defeat Vader and rule the galaxy with the Emperor as his new apprentice (hinted at in Empire in the scene in the cave,) or none of the above and stay true to the Light Side of the Force. He chose option three, and that option is what inspired Vader to reject the Dark Side. Thus by rejecting the Emperor and being willing to forfiet his life for the Light Side of the Force he got the redemption of his father.
Vader wasn't redeemed until he saw his son's sacrifice. He looks from Luke's face as he writhes in pain from the Emperor's force lightning to the Emperor's face as it twists in utter hate and contempt for Luke. That's when he decides to reject the Dark Side and to save his son's life by tossing the Emperor down the pit.
That's the way I saw it.
The only downside was that father and son didn't go on a campaign of Ewok genocide after dealing with Palpatine.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
It shows the combat pretty well, and have to say it has me fairly excited, especially loving the ragdolling. It just screams imbalance to me though, seems like troopers will flatten a melee user, but oh well sabers all the way!
great link. Hopefully there's a lot of opportunity for PvP
Comments
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I think the films went downhill after ep 5 due to the success of the merchandising and them having everything after deliberately targeted to sell more merchandise to the kids
as for swtor don't forget it's star wars by degrees of seperation. swtor is based on the kotor game which are based on the kotor comics which are based on star wars(might be another one in there aswell)
and yes, this is likely to be 90% jedi/sith game accept it
Yes I would like to bet that dying has consequences.
1 Hit kills did not diminish gameplay as the games were still widely accepted and successful. It only ruined the gameplay, in your opinion, which is why you may not like them. That doesn't mean they were widely sought as lacking any features because there were no loss of limbs. I don't think I've ever read a star wars review that said "We docked points because my droid didn't explode or I didn't cut off the sith lords hand when I hit him"
I'm basing my expectations on what all other star wars games had, its the way the IP is. Even on the first star wars games back on the super nintendo they didn't have limb loss, why should you expect it in an MMO? You shouldn't. What you are basing your opinion on is entitlement, and what you think you deserve, this is just an insignificant gripe if you take into account all of the other things that are implemented that signifies the star wars IP.
Has there EVER been a Star Wars game where you die after being shot once? My favorites were Battlefront, Battlegrounds, KOTOR and Force Unleashed. All of them sold well, all of them felt like Star Wars and none of them had one shot kills.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
@ OP these games are a buisness and the controlling companies will ring any money of a popular franchisae to make more of it. Be that you dislike or love the suppossed IP still remains, it will get made, people will pay to play and have fun for a while.
Austin, Texas have produced a lot of crap over the years.
Why can't the failures just leave the business?
And not being able to make a HK47 type character really turned me off from the game so I will wait until they implement it.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
It's not Bioware, it's Bioware Austin. Mainly composed of developers from other failed/cancelled/terrible mmorpgs.
Austin, Texas have produced a lot of crap over the years.
Why can't the failures just leave the business?
And not being able to make a HK47 type character really turned me off from the game so I will wait until they implement it.
Is your point that the city of Austin, Texas is doomed to producing bad games?
W.T.F.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
So you are arguing that the games sucked because the characters couldn't cut limbs off... wtf?
Join the army.
Join the army.
ROFL. That's gold right there.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
I fully agree OP, Star Wars sucks now and it has sucked for quite a while. The soecial editions of the original trilogy were horrible, they ruined really good movies, the prequels were a complete and utter joke, and the Clone Wars CGI cartoon is dumb and crap.
Here's the link to the 70 minute Phantom Menace review the OP was talking about:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG1AWVLnl48
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdQwKPVGQsY&feature=related
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOlG4T1S2lU&feature=related
Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBvp1r2UpiQ&feature=related
Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORWPCCzSgu0&feature=related
Part 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIWKMgJs_Gs&feature=related
And here is the 90 minute Attack of the Clones review:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBhi6qqFLA
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im7k4LUzA3Y&feature=related
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux8pCqiiBLA&feature=related
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGnorxUw4AA&feature=related
Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz1L63TdhC8&feature=related
Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-isAmaVbsM&feature=related
Part 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blkx6axytKQ&feature=related
Part 8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QThD0r3hZg&feature=related
Part 9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq0wv2ossJU&feature=related
These reviews are great and they do a good job of pointing out the flaws in these movies.
That all being said, I like the original Star Wars trilogy, I like Bioware games, I've liked every one I've ever played, and I love KOTOR, KOTOR was an amazing game. So, despite the currently shoddy and crappy nature of current Star Wars I think SWTOR will be a great game.
Also, I would never use the "But it's Star Wars!!" excuse to justify playing this game. Despite the fact that I'm a huge Star Trek fan, I roast Star Trek Online endlessly for being the biggest pile of crap the MMO genre has seen in years. I refuse to play it just because it's Star Trek (unlike many other Star Trek fans out there who are more tolerant of exposing themselves to constant torture than I am) and if it turns out this game sucks, I will also refuse to play it.
However, currently everything I'm seeing is convincing me that SWTOR will be a good MMORPG and a worthy sequel to KOTOR. At this stage of the development of STO there were major warning bells going off for me and I was becoming pretty sure Cryptic was going to ship a turd in a Star Trek wrapping, but I'm really not sensing the same thing about SWTOR at all.
Xondar, if you think Star Wars sucks so bad then why the hell are you posting on this game forum?
Jedi had some great scenes, like Lando charging the Death Star in the Falcon, the final battle between Vader and Luke (it still gets my heart pumping to this day,) and the Emperor was such a great character.
It's just too bad these scenes were interspersed with those super awful (and incredibly silly) Ewok bits. Ugh.
Seriously? I can't understand how anyone could objectively say that at least A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back aren't great films. They do use common fiction tropes, but then turn them all on their heads with an unreal setting and great twists. The "No, I am your father!" line was a huge cinematic twist ending before movies like The Usual Suspects and The Sixth Sense were ever concieved. The writing is quite good (mainly becvause Lucas had to write 50 drafts of each movie, then get script doctors help him to fix it up, whereas for the prequels they filmed his very first drafts pretty much,) the action is tight, there are no superfluous scenes (which is why the Special Editions are such a travesty,) the pacing is perfect, and yes the special effects are top notch.
I was around back then, but I can still recognize a great film when I see one. This is why I'm a huge fan of The Seven Samurai, or Casablanca (it really set me on a biol when people refuse to watch them just because they are in black and white.)
The only way I can see anyone saying that these movies aren't that good is if they hate sci-fi/fantasy films in general.
(By the way, if you've only seen the DVD editions or the Special Editions, try to find the original cuts of the original trilogy. They are about 10 billion times better than the Special Editions.)
I don't think I would use those YouTube links and say that they are "serious" reviews. They are parodies of reviews and some fan comments. But, humor is often wasted on the humorless.
Let's party like it is 1863!
You mistake me, I'm a huge fan of Star Wars. The Empire Strikes Back is probably my second favourite science fiction movie ever (after The Wrath of Khan) and in general I think the original trilogy are cinematic masterpieces (except for the Ewok scenes.)
It's the prequel trilogy that I loathe.
Everyone knows the original Alien Trilogy is better than Star Wars and Star Trek
Isn't that the entire point of that scene? Luke had three choices: join Vader and defeat the Emperor to rule the galaxy with him as father and son (proposed in Empire,) defeat Vader and rule the galaxy with the Emperor as his new apprentice (hinted at in Empire in the scene in the cave,) or none of the above and stay true to the Light Side of the Force. He chose option three, and that option is what inspired Vader to reject the Dark Side. Thus by rejecting the Emperor and being willing to forfiet his life for the Light Side of the Force he got the redemption of his father.
Vader wasn't redeemed until he saw his son's sacrifice. He looks from Luke's face as he writhes in pain from the Emperor's force lightning to the Emperor's face as it twists in utter hate and contempt for Luke. That's when he decides to reject the Dark Side and to save his son's life by tossing the Emperor down the pit.
They are serious reviews, but that's part of the brilliance of the reviewer. I read an interview with RedLetterMedia and he said he originally wanted to do Star Trek reviews (his first review was Star Trek: Generations, he eventually reviewed all the TNG movies) but he figured out that no one wanted to listen to his voice for 40+ minutes and that he'd come off as an arrogant douchebag. So he invented the character he does the reviews as.
The brilliance in the reviews is that he is giving an honest and truthful critique of the films he reviews, one can't help but agree with what he says, but he's also satirizing fanboys and know-it-alls with his reviews (he often points out how something is different, then says "I don't like things that are different" and his inability to say the word "protagonist" are prime examples of this humour.)
These reviews work on so many levels, that's why they're so great.
The prequels I can agree with. You made it appear as though you think the whole thing sucks, and I simply can't agree with that. Its just the prequels that are bad. E ven the Clone Wars animated show is actually pretty good because they don't make Anakin out to be a whiny baby. The show shows us that he IS a hero and a friend with a dark side streak.
Try watching this: http://g4tv.com/videos/45534/Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-Combat-Developer-Diary/?quality=hd
It shows the combat pretty well, and have to say it has me fairly excited, especially loving the ragdolling. It just screams imbalance to me though, seems like troopers will flatten a melee user, but oh well sabers all the way!
If, in 20-30 years, they make 3 more LoTR movies starring the latest boy band as a raggedy bunch of lovable ruffian hobbits who, while accompanied by Barney the purple talking dinosaur, discover that Gandalf's magic actually comes from sour phlegm then yes, I will say Jackson is a hack. Of course, to catch up to Lucas he would then have to follow up all that with a weekly computer generated cartoon called "Hobbit Babies" and their movie "Hobbit Babies go to Paris"
That's the way I saw it.
The only downside was that father and son didn't go on a campaign of Ewok genocide after dealing with Palpatine.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
great link. Hopefully there's a lot of opportunity for PvP