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Speed of combat
Lord.Bachus
Member RarePosts: 9,686
I like games with action paced combat like EQ2.
From long past memmories i can only remember FFgames having very slow combat, but then my last FF was FF VII as it released on PC very long ago.
Whats the combat speed of FF XIV going to be ?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
From the videos I saw, pretty damn slow.
It is my opinion, that your opinion is incorrect.
yea....
Look up Pooky Poo's videos (if you can still find them) for a idea.
relatively slow.
faster than XI, slower than WoW.
but it will no doubt be quickly noticed by testers and tweaked by release. though, SE has said that overall they prefer combat to be this way.
but with no auto-attack (and how you must activate skills to be active) perhaps there wil be enough skills on hand at a given time that it will feel less slow. though, each skill has to charge somewhat which feels much like weapon delay in XI (only this time you can charge skill potency while waiting).
It will be slow.
After playing long enough, you will prefer it to be that way.
Dang found those pooky video's on Youtube...
If combat is really that slow, its not my kind of game... It looked right out boring to me....
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Keeping in mind that the person had just started the game, and that most games at the start are slow paced and you have little in the way of choices for your attacks.
WoW you only get one or two buttons to start with and it takes a while to kill any mob, about 20-30 seconds.
Aion is the same way, so is AoC, in fact pretty much every online MMO you start out with almost no buttons and very slow combat.
I'm not saying this will change later on in every one of those games, Aion combat actually seems to get longer on mobs at some points, so does AoC taking more moves and strategy to kill monsters is their idea of leveling progression.
Ultimately my point is take the wait and see approach, obviously every game isn't for every person, but the first 4 hours of a games combat will undoubtedly be similar to what you saw in every game.
keep in mind most players don't have as many skills to use, so it may seem longer than it actual will be with a full action bar. not to mention people who are still learning the system may make it appear slower than it is.
I really wouldn't judge combat based on Pooky's videos. He sucked at playing.
Nor any low level character's vids really. The real combat happens in a group vs. group setting.
But if that's enough for you to not give it a go, too bad.
Ok think of this.
If I just throw you into the middle of a game with a different UI at low levels how well do you think your going to play it? Your not going to know what your doing, its going to look slow, your low level, theres lack of skills. Use a little common sense people.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
If FFXIV's combat speed in any way resembles XI's (and so far it seems to) then the action on the screen may be slow but the actual combat speed isn't. The actual speed that you feel when playing is based on how engaged you are with the system, how much you have to think, plan, strategise and coordinate.
With the number of things you had to worry about and pay attention to in XI you wouldn't have been able to keep up if the combat was any faster, and XIV seems to have even more things to worry about.
good point! can't wait to experience that again
I think there arent really any representative videos out yet. The ones I saw were people just sitting down at a trade show demo and didnt know how to play the game but were just figuring it out.
Personally I think combat should be slow enough that normal internet lag does not impact dps significantly. In games where a global cooldown of 2 seconds is the limiting factor in attacks a ping of 100-200 ms greatly impacts dps. Thats not good. DPS should be totally dependent on player skill (tactics and strategy), not internet speed which fluctuates anyway.
^
I'm one on the side of a slightly slower, more tactical combat.
Yeah so, let's make an example.
You have a combat where attacks take 1second to initiate, skills have 5-10sec cooldowns and so on.
Now you're busy enough rotating your skills and maximizing your damage output, how about you had to strategize where and how far to stand and which direction to face (around large group of mobs, in front of them, behind a mob, 3 mobs directly lined up between you and the target), which skill to use at which time (mob does X = you do skill Y), manage your TP and MP so you need to prioritize which skill to use for the situation (can't just spam them as you wish, and should you use two skills with low TP cost or one skill with high TP cost?)
Also be ready to trigger whichever Battle Regimen is being done at time, and be ready to help other members of your party if the group of mobs is going for them.
With 5 sec cooldown and too fast combat speed, this will be too much for anyone to handle, at least in a long period of time at once.
You have to give the player time to think of all these things. It's not just about spamming 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 1 2... on your hotbar until the mob dies.
You're one of those players who like to pointlessly run around, spam your buttons and jump around, aren't you?
I can't believe there are morons out there still who think the combat they're seeing in alpha represents the entirety of XIVs combat system. Helllooooo. Every MMO I've started, the first fights are always slow and mundane. XI, go slay some rabbits. WoW, it was to kill a buncha boars. Warhammer, was to kill a buncha bugs. LoTRO, a buncha wolves. Really. Think before you speak.
FFXI was not made for the modern age of ADHD gamers who need constant excitement, eyecandy and can't remove their finger from the jump key. Just the opposite it was made for strategic thoughtful combat. Hopefully FF14 will be similar. That might not suit the kiddies with their lack of patience and attention span but if they don't play it just means a better and more mature community.
I see you liked DaoC, Final Fantasy XI combat speed is almost the same, as far as I remember. The group play style is also a lot like DaoC.
But I am not sure of FFXIV, it seems they go for a slower style, but were every hit is decided by the player, so while it is slower, it could be you need the time. This could be really good, if they actualy make enemies AI so good that the enemy changes his defense if he gets to much hits of 1 kind of an attack.
I really hope for slower combat, were damage is more decided on tactics.
From seeing few better combat vids (not official ones, sorry!) it seems XIV's combat will be around 20-30% faster than XIV, depending how you look at it.
Since you need to wait for global cooldown between all the skills and spells it might feel slower, but the cooldown is noticeably less than the auto-attack in XI.
You also gain skills at a more rapid rate. Every two levels, approximately.
But the most important thing is that it'll be more interactive. XI's combat would have been fine right from the start if they gave you more opportunities to affect the flow of battle. Watching slow turn based combat can get boring- actively participating in it makes it feel a lot faster.
Anyway, when looking at Archer combat it didn't feel boring to wait for cooldown- it was more the feeling of impatience that you can't wait for the action bar to fill already. I don't consider that bad, at all. Gives you just enough time to decide whatever skill would be best to use for the situation. Sometimes it's even too fast, and it's hard to decide what to do next before the bar fills.
I wouldn't judge the speed or pace of the game until I see something above the first few levels of the game.
If you're worried about the speed then wait about a month after the game is released and then take a look when people actually have abilites to use constantly.
For some reason I recall reading that you can spam things but they will be weaker than waiting to use them (letting some bar fill up under the ability) So maybe you can spam stuff if you're more into the twitch action?
FF games aren't for everyone so if you don't like FF to begin with you probably won't like their MMOs.
After the action bar fills, you can wait further for power gauge to fill, which boosts your attacks. It's entirely optional.
The current speculation is that there are however some instant abilities that do not require you to wait for the cooldown, for example skills that you use after evading a monster's strike. Those kind of skills can only be used in such situations, however.
You won't be able to "spam" anything, at least before you get access to enough Haste skills and equipment.
Oh cool.
This thread made me check out the new videos leaked (I haven't watched any since the first alpha test) and wow.... this game looks like it could get really tactical watching the archer videos from leakerz, Personally, I would be more into the tactical speed rather than the button mashing, every game I have played since FFXI is all button mashing and the same as the last game...
Ready for this to launch
And let's not forget that shields, and later offhand weapons will get their own action bar. For those classes you're not simply inputting one command at time, but two.
I would imagine it would get quite hectic when you have to position yourself correctly, get monsters attention from other party members by using various skills and also keep their attention (one skill requires you to block an enemy's strike before you can trigger it) and also be able to block most of monster's attacks (so you have to look out for their attack patterns... and with a bit of speculation added in, monsters may start to see through your blocks and change their attack speed to counter your constant blocks as well).
There's also the Battle Regimen co-operative system which you should be able to participate in while doing all aforementioned things.
I don't think we'll get "bored" with this one.
EDIT: Speculation is no longer speculation: There are indeed some instant abilities that do not require action gauge to be full, however they require a little amount of TP (you get around 450 TP with one normal strike as Archer, the skill costs 200 TP).
Once you block/evade an attack, you can trigger the skill that works only when said occurrence happens. It has no cooldown, so you can use it always when you block or evade a hit. The system adds quite a bit of interaction to the combat.
"Used Slash (normal strike).
Blocked an attack during the slash animation, immediately used Phalanx (only usable after blocking).
Main-hand Action Gauge finished charging by then. Followed the Phalanx with Red Lotus/Slash/Circle Slash."
Three hits in a matter of few seconds.
As long as it isnt so slow that one person can direct all the other players every attack, or bot a full group.
I think WoW combat is too fast IMO.. I prefer a slower combat
Heck, in WoW if you partner up with someone, the mob is dead before you get the 2nd DoT off.. LOL or luck to get cast a 2nd DD spell..
Ah great! I like that.
But I am still a little afraid, in DaoC I also had some attacks that could only be done with block, evade, and parry, but I never used them, because it was hard to notice when such event happens and if it happens you quickly had to search for the right skill.
So I hope SE can make it in a better way.