Read a couple of the Warhammer 40k books and to tell you the truth, it is lousy sci-fi.
Never understood why this was so popular. Certainly, won't be on my watch list.
Heretic!
Oh, so perfectly matched with the lore! +1 for roleplay!
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
Read a couple of the Warhammer 40k books and to tell you the truth, it is lousy sci-fi.
Never understood why this was so popular. Certainly, won't be on my watch list.
The unpure shall burn in the flames of ignorance!
.....but generally speaking you are actually correct. A lot of the Warhammer 40k novels are in fact a load of boring old bollocks. I'm currently struggling to make my way through the 4th book of the Horus Heresy. Incredibly boring stuff. One repetitive battle scene after another punctuated by predictable gumph about how mighty the primarches and their meat head space marines are......and then back to another dull battle which the space marines always win.
However I would recommend you at least try any of the Gaunts Ghosts or Eisenhorn series by Dan Abnett as he is a pretty good author and usually manages to come up with some interesting characters and situations.
Read a couple of the Warhammer 40k books and to tell you the truth, it is lousy sci-fi.
Never understood why this was so popular. Certainly, won't be on my watch list.
I have to agree... But then that's to be expcted: most of the novels based off IPs like games and movies are not very good at all.
It's a pity that good science fiction literature is typically not seen as good material for games, barring adventure games - whereas the adventure game adapted from Harlan Ellison's I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream was pretty good in my opinion. I also loved the Gateway games, but I digress.
I'm also not particularly fond of the 40K universe itself, but I'm positive it's a very good IP to make computer games out of, seeing as how Space Hulk was sort of awesome.
Well so far thats all the info i have seen but between 4 races and the zones, we won't know which zones will be invadable and which ones are not., plus we don't know what else they will be adding or changing. Best bet so far is to wait til E3 and then comment.
The one thing I fear above all else, is "Fanboi Catering", at the expense of making a game that really works in the Lore and the setting. The 40K Pen-and-Paper roleplaying game correctly realised the danger of opening options up to the player too far, and thus only allows players to play gritty, relatively normal, modestly equipped humans.
Basically, I see race and class as the gigantic potential pit-fall for this game. I really hope they will not try to do too much, and I think I would even prefer a game that only allowed me to play as a Human, and potentially human sub-types (Ratling, Squat, Oggryn etc, and potentially some of the Imperial Guard sub-types, like Cadians and Catachans).
The basic humans offer PLENTY of variety, and introducing either a lot of other races, and possibly some of the various famous "Super-Soldiers" will just skew the balance, water-down the Lore, and vastly reduce the ammount of content that you can make available in PVE (Such as the Black Library, which could potentially be the best End-Game raid-zone ever made).
Examples:
Space Marines: 7-foot genetically enhanced super-soldiers, with the best gear available in the Human Empire. A Basic Space Marine can easily take out a half a dozen normal soldiers without breaking a sweat. Also, a Space Marine character would not be able to really do anything on his own accord, and thus would not really be able to "Adventure". So they're rigid and overpowered, which means they won't make a good character. (Great for group instances, though)
Eldar (of any kind, really): Eldar, again, do not adventure...at all. Their reduced numbers makes self-preservation a prime concern for the Eldar Race, and they do not leave their Craftworlds unless directly or in-directly threatened. And when they do, they are used for surgical strikes. Any Eldar who decides to go adventuring will be considered to be heading down the path of indulgence, and just one step closer to Slaanesh. But Eldar craftworlds, Lore, ancient shrines, and unknown/ambiguous motives are great for NPCs and Instances, Raids, etc.
Chaos: Chaos suffers from the 2 problems that Space Marines suffer from: a) Immensely Powerfull and b) No real discernable personal agenda. But they would work as, probably, one of the major over-shadowing source of adventures, conflicts and instance-targets in the game.
Dark Eldar: Well...see Eldar, and see Chaos
Tau: Might actually work, and might add a few more races to the line-up if you add the Kroot and the Vespids. However, the Tau themselves do not, philosophically, accept any other motivation than the Greater Good, sp again, a Tau would not go adventuring on his own. But they would make fantastic NPCs and a source of Quests and Areas that could be strong enough to support an entire Expansion just on their own. Plus they would be a great, and very realistic, source of cool gear and technology.
Ork: Since your basic Ork is almost as tough in his underwear and a blunt axe, as a human Special forces soldier in full combat-gear, and the Orc motivation is normally limited to punching things untill they submit, they suffer again from the problem of power/itemisation and motivation to go adventuring. Plus, I just have a feeling, that Orks don't really work well in Teams...
That just leaves Necrons and Tyranids: And...well...they don't really have minds of their own.
So basically, my hope is that they don't succumb to the Fanboi-pressure, and that they limit themselves to humans and human sub-species (maybe with a few confused Tau and Eldar, if they must). I can see that working really well...but if I open up the character-creation-screens and find myself able to make a "Lvl 1 Striking Scorpion Exarch", I am almost certain that the game is going to fail.
...oh...and please give me a game with a reasonable diifculty-level and some challenges that require skill instead of just a dedication to throw your life away. I really don't feel like I have been challenged properly in an MMORPG since the PoP-expansion to EverQuest.
The 40K-community can deal with a game that isn't dumbed down
since it seems like noone is mentioning it (tell me if i am wrong) But space marines got something called exiles (i think, at least captain Uriel Ventris of the ultramarines becomes one in the ultramarines omnibus) which is a space marine without a chapter. These guys are helping the imperial guard however they got more of a freedom of choice. Its not the end of the world if they don't follow orders at this point as they are almost considered free, and the possible way to balance a space marine and imperial guard would be to use inquisitors battle armors (much like space marines battle armors however this is for normal people) It is possible to put in any race to be free, necrons got a few people with their minds intact the hive fleet can always loose control over on and another unit and once in a while there are remnants running around on space hulks. The orcs is full of different minds, the only thing the orcs agree on is that they love war else they are kinda different. There are many others but damned i don't want to read my books again, because once i begin i cannot stop before i am through:P
I think this is in very good hands with THQ. With all their sucess on the DOW series, I doubt they will drop the ball on this. All they need to do is look at WAR and correct its mistakes:
1. Make fluid, fun and fast PVP. We want to battle over objects with interactables. Scenarios = death of PVP in WAR. Make some oRvR thats epic and players will want to play everytime.
2. Two factions = bad. Three factions = good.
3. Balance, balance balance. A one shotting Inquistor or Chaos Champion will kiss subs good-bye. Bring back a reasonable TTK and require gameplay that requires strategy, not OP classes.
4. If this is going to be a PVP-centric game, make sure the PVP gear > PVE gear, for the love of god.
5. Give us viable timesinks. Crafting, housing, playermade items.
6. The tabletop is fun 'cause I can customize the look of the minatures with dyes and other small pieces. Go beyond dyes in game and make vanity items for armor, weapons, etc.
Above all, take your time. If it needs to be fleshed out and tested more, do it. I cannot take many more MMO's with half baked releases, gamebreaking bugs, and other general waffle.
You waited for over two years and that's all you have to say for yourself?
I expect more next time! More I tell ya!
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The one thing I fear above all else, is "Fanboi Catering", at the expense of making a game that really works in the Lore and the setting. The 40K Pen-and-Paper roleplaying game correctly realised the danger of opening options up to the player too far, and thus only allows players to play gritty, relatively normal, modestly equipped humans.
Modeslty equipped? i could potentially be in full power armour, weilding a lascannon without needing to even set it up, hardly what i would call modest.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
The Eisenhorn trilogy of novels is really good fiction and gives a lot of insight in the universe outside the battlefields. (It's more a detective (inquisitor :-P) story) In general Dan Abnett books seem to be good though i haven't kept up to date.
I suspect/hope to see familiar things from those book make it into the game regarding solcial structure, life in the cities etc.
I really can't see THQ screwing this up that bad like Mythic did, THQ has more experience with WH40K games and know a lil about balance. E3 is the show case for WH40K and more details will be known by then. So far only Orks, Eldar, Space Marines and Chaos are the known races, i really doubt they would put the more powerful races and units in it because that is what fans want.
This is a quote from THQ :
"The Warhammer 40k team is small and very experienced, so they have the advantage of skipping a lot of expensive trial-and-error, moving straight to building the game right."
Basically we don't know how big the zones will be and what the large scale battles will be like. I'm thinking they will use the basic units of warrior, chaplin, maybe a mech type for starters..etc.
Comments
Heretic!
Oh, so perfectly matched with the lore! +1 for roleplay!
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
Which books? A good deal of W40k books are notoriously lower class and nothing to write home about.
The unpure shall burn in the flames of ignorance!
.....but generally speaking you are actually correct. A lot of the Warhammer 40k novels are in fact a load of boring old bollocks. I'm currently struggling to make my way through the 4th book of the Horus Heresy. Incredibly boring stuff. One repetitive battle scene after another punctuated by predictable gumph about how mighty the primarches and their meat head space marines are......and then back to another dull battle which the space marines always win.
However I would recommend you at least try any of the Gaunts Ghosts or Eisenhorn series by Dan Abnett as he is a pretty good author and usually manages to come up with some interesting characters and situations.
I have to agree... But then that's to be expcted: most of the novels based off IPs like games and movies are not very good at all.
It's a pity that good science fiction literature is typically not seen as good material for games, barring adventure games - whereas the adventure game adapted from Harlan Ellison's I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream was pretty good in my opinion. I also loved the Gateway games, but I digress.
I'm also not particularly fond of the 40K universe itself, but I'm positive it's a very good IP to make computer games out of, seeing as how Space Hulk was sort of awesome.
Well so far thats all the info i have seen but between 4 races and the zones, we won't know which zones will be invadable and which ones are not., plus we don't know what else they will be adding or changing. Best bet so far is to wait til E3 and then comment.
He must have read the C.S. Goto novels.
Happy.
Since I'm playing Dawn of War II, why not? "Show me what passes for gaming amongst your misbegotten kind!"
Will be interesting to see if they'll focus on Ultrasmurfs as playable SM chapter.
I want a Chaos Gate MMO. There I said it. I want a turn based WH40K MMO.
I think we all realise this will just be Warhammer Online in space, deep down.
Personally I'd like to see the ability to play as Astartes, Imperial Guard, Commissars all for the Imperium, and at least three other enemy races.
It would also be good to have a proper roleplaying game, unlike WAR.
La Placa Rifa
i hope to god not......that will kill gamesworkshop and warhammer 40k.
IN THE FACE!
The one thing I fear above all else, is "Fanboi Catering", at the expense of making a game that really works in the Lore and the setting. The 40K Pen-and-Paper roleplaying game correctly realised the danger of opening options up to the player too far, and thus only allows players to play gritty, relatively normal, modestly equipped humans.
Basically, I see race and class as the gigantic potential pit-fall for this game. I really hope they will not try to do too much, and I think I would even prefer a game that only allowed me to play as a Human, and potentially human sub-types (Ratling, Squat, Oggryn etc, and potentially some of the Imperial Guard sub-types, like Cadians and Catachans).
The basic humans offer PLENTY of variety, and introducing either a lot of other races, and possibly some of the various famous "Super-Soldiers" will just skew the balance, water-down the Lore, and vastly reduce the ammount of content that you can make available in PVE (Such as the Black Library, which could potentially be the best End-Game raid-zone ever made).
Examples:
Space Marines: 7-foot genetically enhanced super-soldiers, with the best gear available in the Human Empire. A Basic Space Marine can easily take out a half a dozen normal soldiers without breaking a sweat. Also, a Space Marine character would not be able to really do anything on his own accord, and thus would not really be able to "Adventure". So they're rigid and overpowered, which means they won't make a good character. (Great for group instances, though)
Eldar (of any kind, really): Eldar, again, do not adventure...at all. Their reduced numbers makes self-preservation a prime concern for the Eldar Race, and they do not leave their Craftworlds unless directly or in-directly threatened. And when they do, they are used for surgical strikes. Any Eldar who decides to go adventuring will be considered to be heading down the path of indulgence, and just one step closer to Slaanesh. But Eldar craftworlds, Lore, ancient shrines, and unknown/ambiguous motives are great for NPCs and Instances, Raids, etc.
Chaos: Chaos suffers from the 2 problems that Space Marines suffer from: a) Immensely Powerfull and b) No real discernable personal agenda. But they would work as, probably, one of the major over-shadowing source of adventures, conflicts and instance-targets in the game.
Dark Eldar: Well...see Eldar, and see Chaos
Tau: Might actually work, and might add a few more races to the line-up if you add the Kroot and the Vespids. However, the Tau themselves do not, philosophically, accept any other motivation than the Greater Good, sp again, a Tau would not go adventuring on his own. But they would make fantastic NPCs and a source of Quests and Areas that could be strong enough to support an entire Expansion just on their own. Plus they would be a great, and very realistic, source of cool gear and technology.
Ork: Since your basic Ork is almost as tough in his underwear and a blunt axe, as a human Special forces soldier in full combat-gear, and the Orc motivation is normally limited to punching things untill they submit, they suffer again from the problem of power/itemisation and motivation to go adventuring. Plus, I just have a feeling, that Orks don't really work well in Teams...
That just leaves Necrons and Tyranids: And...well...they don't really have minds of their own.
So basically, my hope is that they don't succumb to the Fanboi-pressure, and that they limit themselves to humans and human sub-species (maybe with a few confused Tau and Eldar, if they must). I can see that working really well...but if I open up the character-creation-screens and find myself able to make a "Lvl 1 Striking Scorpion Exarch", I am almost certain that the game is going to fail.
...oh...and please give me a game with a reasonable diifculty-level and some challenges that require skill instead of just a dedication to throw your life away. I really don't feel like I have been challenged properly in an MMORPG since the PoP-expansion to EverQuest.
The 40K-community can deal with a game that isn't dumbed down
since it seems like noone is mentioning it (tell me if i am wrong) But space marines got something called exiles (i think, at least captain Uriel Ventris of the ultramarines becomes one in the ultramarines omnibus) which is a space marine without a chapter. These guys are helping the imperial guard however they got more of a freedom of choice. Its not the end of the world if they don't follow orders at this point as they are almost considered free, and the possible way to balance a space marine and imperial guard would be to use inquisitors battle armors (much like space marines battle armors however this is for normal people) It is possible to put in any race to be free, necrons got a few people with their minds intact the hive fleet can always loose control over on and another unit and once in a while there are remnants running around on space hulks. The orcs is full of different minds, the only thing the orcs agree on is that they love war else they are kinda different. There are many others but damned i don't want to read my books again, because once i begin i cannot stop before i am through:P
I wonder if the fire warriors with feature
I think this is in very good hands with THQ. With all their sucess on the DOW series, I doubt they will drop the ball on this. All they need to do is look at WAR and correct its mistakes:
1. Make fluid, fun and fast PVP. We want to battle over objects with interactables. Scenarios = death of PVP in WAR. Make some oRvR thats epic and players will want to play everytime.
2. Two factions = bad. Three factions = good.
3. Balance, balance balance. A one shotting Inquistor or Chaos Champion will kiss subs good-bye. Bring back a reasonable TTK and require gameplay that requires strategy, not OP classes.
4. If this is going to be a PVP-centric game, make sure the PVP gear > PVE gear, for the love of god.
5. Give us viable timesinks. Crafting, housing, playermade items.
6. The tabletop is fun 'cause I can customize the look of the minatures with dyes and other small pieces. Go beyond dyes in game and make vanity items for armor, weapons, etc.
Above all, take your time. If it needs to be fleshed out and tested more, do it. I cannot take many more MMO's with half baked releases, gamebreaking bugs, and other general waffle.
You waited for over two years and that's all you have to say for yourself?
I expect more next time! More I tell ya!
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Modeslty equipped? i could potentially be in full power armour, weilding a lascannon without needing to even set it up, hardly what i would call modest.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
I want to be super pumped about this. Sadly, WAR, has really made me jaded, and forced me to be less of a fanboi than I would like to be.
I will say this. I love WH40K. I love Eldar. Please don't screw this up like so many hyped MMOs before this.
The Eisenhorn trilogy of novels is really good fiction and gives a lot of insight in the universe outside the battlefields. (It's more a detective (inquisitor :-P) story) In general Dan Abnett books seem to be good though i haven't kept up to date.
I suspect/hope to see familiar things from those book make it into the game regarding solcial structure, life in the cities etc.
I really can't see THQ screwing this up that bad like Mythic did, THQ has more experience with WH40K games and know a lil about balance. E3 is the show case for WH40K and more details will be known by then. So far only Orks, Eldar, Space Marines and Chaos are the known races, i really doubt they would put the more powerful races and units in it because that is what fans want.
This is a quote from THQ :
"The Warhammer 40k team is small and very experienced, so they have the advantage of skipping a lot of expensive trial-and-error, moving straight to building the game right."
Basically we don't know how big the zones will be and what the large scale battles will be like. I'm thinking they will use the basic units of warrior, chaplin, maybe a mech type for starters..etc.
my bet:
it will be an mmo-rts with the inquisitor or battlefleet gothic background
They all say that...then the dollar signs take over
Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall.
Your silly Eldar gave birth to a Chaos God. Now the Imperium has to clean up the mess. Doh!
I posted this in another thread, but just to ensure Imperial dominance: