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Dark Age of Camelot: What if... Dark Age of Camelot 2
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Who cares what (stupid) people think? Evidence is what matters.
TOA came out in Oct, 2003. Subs then went up and plateaud (as in - did not go down at all) for over one whole year until WOW came out at the end of 2004, which then caused DAOC's subs to plummet like a stone.
There is zero doubt that WOW killed DAOC. TOA was a tiny contributor at best. Anyone who says different needs to spend more time studying the sub numbers and less time crying about why they personally didn't like TOA.
DAOC UI and movement mechanics are horrid. You can't bind arbitrary keys/mouse controls to arbitrary actions, base character movement is horrid (even after having buffed the hell out of when WOW came out), character movement lag is so common that using it to your advantage is part of standard gameplay (lag-casting, spiralling).
No it didn't. I was playing then as well.
I miss that game so much. I still have it installed on this computer, but no one I know plays anymore. I wish they would really come out with a DOAC 2!
Man, I'm starting to wonder if you ever played DAoC.
Yes, ToA wasn't a big deal at all, I mean, it's not like Mythic launched classic servers excluding the entire Trials of Atlantis expansion pack due to public outcry, its not like these servers were the most populated for years.
Know what else launched in late 2004 that most people didn't like?
New Frontiers.
Know what New Frontiers emphasized? How unbalanced the game had become with the ToA items.
Check mate.
And I still have no idea what's wrong with the UI, its FULLY CUSTOMIZABLE. The ENTIRE thing, not that you even need it, there's nothing WRONG with it.
As for the controls, funny, DAoC had a long list of control setups, one is the EXACT same setup used for WoW. Guess WoW controls suck too.
I beg to differ. Perhaps it was an exaggeration on my part about the immediate cancellations but it became increasingly hard to put together any groups for the ToA encounters to the point I gave up trying and ultimately left myself.
daoc 2 rememeber when ppl said WAR will be daoc2 there you have daoc 2
BestSigEver :P
Great write up!
It's certainly one of the games which is so unique that it feels like it deserves a sequel to redo things properly.
From my point of view, Shrouded Isles is where things were great, Trials of Atlantis turned the game from a hobby into a full time job with artifacts. Instead of being with your realm in trying to fight the enemy, you were turned into fighting against your own realm just to try and get the artifacts you wanted by camping them.
If they ever did a DAoC2, perhaps they shouldn't go down the entire route of making the game so friendly that anyone could solo quests. Make the game a group game again and highlight this as a strong point. Don't do instancing, it doesn't help build communities. Put the epic quest encounters back near areas where people would be likely to be levelling so they're more likely to come and help you instead of ignore you.
Most important thing - don't do a WAR and reinvent the things which worked well.
Sorry but I can't just ignore the defending of Trials of Atlantis that the article tries to attempt. That was a major factor in the game's downfall. The attempt to try and make the game more like Everquest at the time did not work and was not wanted at all. It made it so those that could spend hours and hours more in the game were at a significant advantage over everyone else. DAoC wasn't a pure PvE game with high level raids. It was a PvPvE game. Even the focus on keeps and outpost weren't bad I felt. The best way to defend a location is with range but once the doors or walls were down melees were front in center. It makes sense. That change I don't think was ever a big problem. It gave everyone something important to do and it didn't stop field battles from what I could tell. ToA deserves a lot of blame as does Mythic for refusing to address it until it was to late and even then they never really did and the damage was done.
There is a reason why when they added the server/cluster that didn't have ToA active on it that it became so popular and became THE server to play on.
Was in the beta for DAoC, it was great, loved it for a time. Expansions channged things... A basic problem with Class/Level based games. I would love a DAoC2, it could be wonderful.
would be great, DAoC was before my time, as far as gaming goes so i would love to play the second one.
I'm sorry, but you are wrong.. So wrong its almost scary, Its well noted that the Population increased by about 20k after TOA came out, It was like that for over a YEAR before it went down along with every other MMO did to WoW.
TOA/NF had nothing to do with DAOC's demise, WoW did..
Daoc2 isnt going to happen yet because the first is still going:) and if you think about it if the 2nd came out the 1st would die!!...But what if the 2nd one was bad? there would be no going back to the old 1servers would be closed down due to cost
....one thing i do hope for (even tho i dont play it any more) is it goes on and on for years to come because it real is the greatest game of all time
I never played DAoC. But I have read a lot about the concepts and it sounds like it had a good formula. If they made a DAoC2 I think I would jump all over it. Hopefully they consider it.
I agree completely, the amount of classes is needed in my opinion. WoW was fine for awhile, but anybody that has played since launch can attest that one of the reason's to get that game in the first place was the fact that more classes and even hero classes were coming, and that never happened until DK's. That's an aweful long time with the same few classes, now no matter what WoW does I can never go back until they put in something new to play, and that ain't happening anytime soon.
One of the things that I loved about DAoC was the variety, the majority of the people that played that game, played the classes they wanted to and didn't care about the 'best of' variety. Sure you might not get into a goon squad party roaming Emain, but you could still go out there and have fun with your class and help your realm. The realm pride was 2nd to none, and has never been duplicated in any game since, Darkness Falls was it, you wanted DF, you did what you could to get DF, and you had a blast cleaning out the enemy realm when you got it. People needed DF, crafters, leveling toon's what have you, best place for xp, best place to delve for mats, great place to get gear that wasn't the best but good enough.
ex-daoc community is the worst mmorpg community. it is a waste of time to please them because you never would.
I agree with a couple things here but I don't think there should be a DAOC 2.0 but more of a DAOC Re-launch. I think all the current systems in place (except ToA) around 1.65, when I left, were pretty good. I think all it would need is graphic updates, UI Update, and some systems they learned from WAR.
The Spiritmaster grind groups from 45-50 were some of the best parts as a tank.
Auto-folowing one person in RVR and roaming for people to kill
Mile gates
Specs in to weapon trees and not talens
Most of these new games want to make it easy for the player. I say make it easy to work for but takes time to obtain. Take the random PVP ganking away from AION and this is what you have. I think DOAC should stay to its roots but just completely strip out ToA, and just update its systems. Don't make any drastic game play changes. While RvR in DOAC and Realm Rank is harder to achieve, it certainly wasn't handed to you like it is in WAR's scenario/fort grind fest. You had to go look for people or have them come to you by taking Towers or Forts.
Most of my friends agree that these new-gen MMOs just don't have that same mystery and majestic feel as Everquest did during it's height around Lost Dungeons or Camelot did when ToA came out despite it's obvious direction change. If either of these games had the same numbers they did during their heights, with only those same number of expansions - we'd re-sub in a heartbeat,
Completely ignore my post where I take the air out of this argument, eh? Here let me remind you.
Thanks for the shout out!
I dream of the day MMO's get away from this horrible WoW style of game and get back to the roots of what actually makes a solid MMO. And DAOC 2 would be a perfect fit, so many people love that game including myself. Every forum for every MMO I follow now always has a billion threads asking for features from DAOC. I registered just to make a comment and show my support of DAOC 2 (done right).
Agreed, that was the best thing about having a house in DAoC. You could actually show what you accomplished with your trophies, and you could get some solo, or some with raids. And people really noticed what you did when they went to your house.
This. A hundred times this. Keep the game the same - bring it into this decade visually and mechanically.. but don't change it. A sequel would no doubt be different in many core areas.. It would no longer be DAoC to those of us that actually played it when it was released and experienced it during its prime.
The problem is, the original game is already broken in many regards in the eyes of a majority of players, they'd have to revert it entirely back to the game in 2002, and build upon THAT, and some of the few good features they've introduced since (siege weapons, housing, drinking!, ect ect). If they just built upon current DAoC, I wouldn't go back, theres a reason I'm not playing DAoC right now. They really need to go back to Origins, which... they were doing, until EA pulled everyone off the job to save Warhammer.