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Is AoC larger in player numbers than LOTRO
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If that was in response to my post...
You should be aware that as a public company, Funcom publish details about the numbers of subscribers in their games in financial reports.
The figures reported on mmodata.net are taken from those reports.
http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/150k-1m.png
As I said, Turbine have never released those figures so the figures in this graph are an estimate. But even reports from supposed insiders at Turbine only put their number of subscribers about 50k-80k below this number.
So as of 6 months ago, LOTRO was definitely way ahead of AoC.
I should also make it clear that I don't play either. LOTRO didn't impress me and I haven't gotten around to trying AoC yet. I'm completely neutral in this.
I'm just not sure why all of a sudden Xfire numbers are 'silly'. Wasn't this thread started because for a week after the expansion, AOC was actually ahead of LotRO on xfire. Of course, back then, Xfire was serious and meant something.. it showed a 'trend'.. that the 'turnaround' was taking place... that the game has been 'steadily growing'.
Oh wait.. so now that AOC is falling on Xfire.. it doesn't mean anything, and is just silly.
Hate to break it to you, but Funcom does NOT release subscriber numbers, in their financial reports or anywhere else. The only thing they publish is their profit/loss and current financial state. mmodata is largely nothing but guesswork.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
XFire numbers haven't 'suddenly' been silly, they've always been limited at best in their means of determining active player populations or comparing player numbers between games. At best you can use it to see trends within the game, but that's at best.
To show how silly XFire is for anything more, in a former post I 'proved' that AoC has 250,000 players using comparative analysis with XFire.
Look here for XFire showing that AoC has 250k+ players
You want to take XFire seriously? Fine, then there it was, XFire not being silly for claiming a 250k+ player population for AoC.
But that's not what this is about. Some of you AoC haters may 'accuse' AoC fans of using XFire numbers only when it looks beneficial, but I find it amusing how hypocritical this sounds coming from people like you since it's exactly what you're doing only stretching XFire credibility trying to find the negative looking trends to discredit AoC, and gloat over AoC and people who enjoy playing AoC.
Your anti-AoC rants would be merely amusing, if it wasn't also petty and a cause for ridicule and scorn in the one-sided, caricatural way you're going about it.
Besides the link that showed how flawed comparisons between games themselves can be, there's also another phenomenon that makes XFire numbers be questionable:
while XFire show the peak of player numbers to be in the weekends, numerous ingame population counts on the various different servers show that the peak of players logged on isn't in the weekends but on weekdays.
If XFire was that trustworthy as a tool for measuring MMO player populations, then it would follow step with the actual player counts ingame. But frankly, I think that the actual population counts ingame are a better means for determining trends.
To balance and put more perspective to the posts of those people only being all too eager to use XFire for trashing AoC:
- AoC's XFire numbers have seen a steady rise since the end of last year/beginning of this year. Where in those time periods it would vary around 450-600, it has steadily been climbing towards 1200, with sometimes a peak of around 1500 after expansion launch.
- actual ingame population counts on several different servers also show a doubling and sometimes tripling of player numbers compared with how it was last of last year's months and beginning of this year.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
So why weren't you all over the OP for posting that AOC had more subscribers than LOTRO when he started this thread? Like I said, it is only when AOC is going backwards do people think it is a silly think to use Xfire. When AOC has an active promotion on Xfire AND just released an expansion and xfire barely budges forward, it's ok to make threads about Xfire. Yes, we know, AOC is falling fast, so now it is time for you to pull out you analysis about the flaws of xfire.... where was that post last week when the OP started this thread?
AOC is back to 32nd today. 7 spots behind LOTRO.
You may deny all you like about you only wanting to see and hear the negative things regarding AoC (would be fun to read that, because you can't) and basically being an 'anti-AoC fanboi'. But next to that, you don't even check your facts. Which is fail.
Here is what I said earlier in the beginning of this thread:
"Personally, I wouldn't put too much value on the Xfire numbers, except for noticing trends like the doubling of activity (number of hrs/players) for AoC compared to a few months ago.
Of course the expansion has aroused a lot of attention, including the positive reviews and overall positive posts from a lot of players who returned. So the fact that AoC at least in Xfire equals LotrO isn't so strange. But the figures will only stabilise after a few months, so we'll see then."
For the rest, believe what you want to believe, it's clear you're one of those people who have a grudge against AoC for whatever lame reason it may be.
Personally I don't get those people that keep on stomping on a game they're not even playing. If they had had shares in the company that owns the game, then I could understand it somewhat. But if that's not the case, the motivations are just sad and petty.
Move on, play some other game or do something else with your life.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I don't think anyone is holding forth Xdire numbers as silly, it's just that a set of people now on dayly basis hold a declining tread forth as proof for AoC loosing subs which is completely irrational even among idiots.. You show up here and herald "Look at Xfire, this is the proof of AoC DIEING a horrible death!!! (die you AoC scum, DIIEEEE...)". lol (wasn't this what you were thinking). What I think people are trying to tell you is, that it's perfectly normal to have elevated activity levels the week after launch of an Xpack. Everyone game at least several more hours than before pr day, and everyone log on at least once or twice more on this week than they normally do elsewise. In other words I think they try to say, AoC have not lost one subscriber after launch, what we see is the normal settling down process.
However, if the trend continue and don't stabilize I would agree would you that what forever reason people are dropping out. Would be a bit strange though considdering how well received this pack is. My guild is in a tissy about it still.... And there is just so damn much to do. But if the xfire numbers go back to what they were before in a months time I think you might be somewhat rightright.
Other things to considder is that AOC had that Xfire competition thing going up till 30th of may. When the competition was over, of course things are going a bit down. Just look on EVE history after their many play xfire campains. When it comes to Yellow gremlin and character registrations, what do you think happens when a new race is introduced to the game. Many people just want to make one and see how the sodd look like. Of course there are elevated numbers on character registartions after introduction of a new race.
So all in all, give it a months time. If AoC is back to <#50 I would agree with you. If AoC is > #35 I think you would have to agree with the other guys, that AoC has had a significant increase in number of players. If AoC is between #35 and #50 I am not sure what we should think.
And finally I have posted this twice before now and somehow it just seems like you keep ignoring it for convenience of your point. AoC had another 200 000 players coming inn on 7 servers from Korea. AoC are easily double the size of LotRO now. This is the topic of the thread and I think this ends the discussion. just look up the link I pasted before.
The Ultimate Breakdown
yep going by the financial reports AoC is just raking it in , yeah sure
want to see some XFire numbers, heres AoC at launch, almost 80,000 hours a day at its peak, over 40,000 a day a month after release. Sure no one I know uses Xfire rofl
http://www.massively.com/2008/07/06/xfire-age-of-conan-statistics-eschew-easy-classification/
I miss DAoC
Ah, finally someone who gets it.
As the Massively newsposter says:
"This data may be less than helpful for a number of reasons, however. For one, we don't have reliable trend data about how similar games like Lord of the Rings Online (which pulled in a quarter of the minutes played per day over the same period) have fared immediately post-launch, and we don't know how reliable a sample Xfire users actually are. Still, expect these numbers to continue to be bandied about as proof of one thing or another."
Thank you for that link :-)
Then again, Massively team members are in principle always more objective and sensible than your regular forum trolls, fanbois and haters.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
always maintained you cannot compare one game to another using XFire, however you can watch trends within a game using it. At launch AoC sold around a million copies and just for arguments sake lets say a month later all were still playing when XFire numbers were pushing 40K a day. Now with around 6K a day numbers one could approximate current AoC numbers around 125K. Sounds about right to me.
I miss DAoC
your argument is not an argument at all. aoc has 500k players
Utter nonsense.
proof please. The quarterly financial reports don't support even a fifth of that number
I miss DAoC
how stupid are you guys? I simply made a joke on his assumptions. Mine that 500k players are playing is backed up as good as his - so not at all
You utterly fail at making internet jokes then :P
hmm it's not that kind of joke
Oh, it's a joke, fair enough. Well, the very thought that AoC has somehow managed to grab 500k players... oh, perish the thought!
But then again, one might argue that if the game released in the condition as it is today, 500k players are feasible. Although, the main problem with AoC is Funcom itself all along - failing to retain a certain amout of players due to mismanagement and rapid development. If they ever want 500k players, they really need to FOCUS first and foremost on AoC and not split their development teams into over 9000 branches, prominent one being Secret World. But I digress...
I think nihce wanted to display one of those internet meme phrases - "I'm riding an elephant on the moon, your argument is invalid". The first part of the phrase must consist of an entirely ridiculous statement, followed by the concluding statement - "your argument is invalid". Okay, enough digressions for now
like alwasys savant is wrong (dude have u ever been right in your life?). My intention was just to show how ridiculous Jackdog statement is. Not that his argument is invalid - but the argument is non existent.
just a statement "elephants fly on moon"
Only the pink ones, the white ones usually hang around Venus.
(if this post is getting me a mod warning for RoC breach, I'm going to eat up my hat that I don't have yet)
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yes, I've been more right than you, in fact, dialectical materialism has its advantages, you know, not to mention sobriety. Concerning your ridiculous "his argument is non existent" - that internet joke does not even try to differentiate between statements and arguments as such, but merely ridiculing for the sake of ridicule. If you attempted to make a joke, it was indeed an utter fail. Kind of like saying that the Xzibit meme "yo dawg, I heard you like..." is wrong because Xzibit never said one himself. Judging by your post history, one would not be surprised that you believe 500k players are lurking in AoC.
So, you just meaninglessly combined two statements and then all of a sudden we are to believe this is a "joke", not to be taken seriously? A very contrived get-away-card if I ever saw one. Is the combination of those statements a joke or just the part about 500k players? And btw, you are not the one who can judge what an argument is and is not. Even if it's bad, it's still some sort of an argument, you are not some divinity who can make categories disappear out of thin air. If this "500k players" thingy can be categorised at all, it would be lame sarcasm, and not a joke at all.
My real problem with anyone trying to use month to month stats from Xfire (or any other social portal) is that there are simply too many variables. It is measuring time in game or log-ins for example, not subscriptions. No way to tell if that month was just bad due to school, weather, family or whatever and no way to tell if a drop off in activity means canceled subs or just a brief break.
That said, my guess would be that AoC may well have more subs than LotRO both because of the AoC expansion and the exodus of unknown size Turbine has just kicked off with the F2P thing. However, I think that AoC will drop back down rapidly again (largely because it is still AoC and FUNCOM after all!) and that when the F2P version goes live this fall that LotROs numbers will bury AoC completely.
Funny that you should assume there has been any exodus because there has been steady and maybe a increase in player activity since the F2P plans were announced. As muh as you guys like to poo poo XFire, or at least you like to poo poo it when AoC's numbers are tanking, LoTRO's numbers have been quite steady comp[ared with same day last week. AoC's on the otehr hand have been steadily toward pre expansion level.
I miss DAoC
Validity of argument and soundness of one is quite nicely defined by logicians. However, I agree I cannot decide how good an argument is, but a statement cannot be an argument.
(and 500k was a joke - i would never think that this game has 500k players.)
You mean, as much as you other guys like to poo poo when AoC's numbers were increasing or like to gloat when they're decreasing? Hypocrisy abounds.
I don't mind people who are enthusiastic about a game in their posts, or show their dislike for it - although I can always appreciate genuine enthusiasm, not the gloating or e-peen variant, more than simple dislike.
But it's the hater trolls and the fanbois of a game or company that I hold in real contempt. The first group I consider no-lifers that are so pathetic that they keep posting rants about a game they don't even play, and the 2nd group I see as equal to religious extremists.
With both groups you can't have a good discussion with, cause their stance and mindset doesn't allow them to see anything else but only the bad sides or purely the good sides of a game or company. It's like trying to have a conversation about religion in general or the validity of other beliefs with religious fanatics.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."