I tried getting in to it a few times over the years (I think the longest stint was about 2-3 months), but I just found it to slow. Also when you have to compete with people who have been playing for years you will never catch up so your just wasting time. You can't even explore that much either because someone is almost certainly going to kill you at a gate before you have chance to react, because they have nothing else to do (kinda says something about the "end-game" :P)
I wish I'd bothered with it right from the start then I may have stuck with it, but meh. Eve caters for people who have been with it for a long time, not to new players.
I don't know if anyone linked this, but it's a good representation of EVE's learning curve. Yes, it's true... EVE is hard and sometimes unfair, but you must consider one thing - every one of us "old players" were at some point new to this game. We've all gone through the same. The point of EVE is social interaction because it's a true MMO. Yes, you can play it solo, but that way you're choosing much more difficult path for yourself. There are numerous corporations and even alliances (some of them very powerful on the political map of EVE) that are accepting new and totally inexperienced players, providing them with free ships, skills and tutorials for effective gameplay. I know that because I've been a CEO of one such corporation. I've gathered a couple of new players (like me at that time) and we built our corporation from scratch while learning from each other and having fun in the process. After a year or so, we had around 35 members and we got an offer to join one of the most powerful 0.0 alliances in game which we kindly accepted.
As you can see, EVE is an MMO and that means - social interaction. If you are new to the game, the best thing you can do is to find a corporation that can help you learn the game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You can take a look at EveMon or the like to see how many years it will take to be useful aside from being fodder.
Lol? you dont know what you talking about. You are cannon fodder no matter how old you are in eve. Seriously, in 0.0 fleet battles even capital ships are fodder to supercapitals. think about that.
Pretty much. The second you undock you have to work under the assumption that ship is not coming back.
It does not take years to be useful in PvP. Why do people keep saying that? Make a few friends who are also new and form a fleet, two rifters and a griffon in low sec would definitely get kills.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
I tried getting in to it a few times over the years (I think the longest stint was about 2-3 months), but I just found it to slow. Also when you have to compete with people who have been playing for years you will never catch up so your just wasting time. You can't even explore that much either because someone is almost certainly going to kill you at a gate before you have chance to react, because they have nothing else to do (kinda says something about the "end-game" :P)
I wish I'd bothered with it right from the start then I may have stuck with it, but meh. Eve caters for people who have been with it for a long time, not to new players.
Nice. You fit almost all of the common myths about EVE in to just two paragraphs.
Not really myths, it's exactly how most people feel after their trial ends. Why else would so many others be saying the same thing?
I'm not saying it's a bad game, but most people want something they can get in to quickly and eve is one massive timesink for a small amount of action, whereas mmos like wow are a smallish timesink for a huge amount of action (and pvp which isnt just blobs, gate camps, or ganking). By the time you "catch up" in eve something else will have probably hit the market which gets you hooked first.
CCP are most likely aware of the game's flaws, but changing them might alienate old players so they cater to them before new ones to hold on to them.
I tried getting in to it a few times over the years (I think the longest stint was about 2-3 months), but I just found it to slow. Also when you have to compete with people who have been playing for years you will never catch up so your just wasting time. You can't even explore that much either because someone is almost certainly going to kill you at a gate before you have chance to react, because they have nothing else to do (kinda says something about the "end-game" :P)
I wish I'd bothered with it right from the start then I may have stuck with it, but meh. Eve caters for people who have been with it for a long time, not to new players.
Nice. You fit almost all of the common myths about EVE in to just two paragraphs.
Not really myths, it's exactly how most people feel after their trial ends. Why else would so many others be saying the same thing?
I'm not saying it's a bad game, but most people want something they can get in to quickly and eve is one massive timesink for a small amount of action, whereas mmos like wow are a smallish timesink for a huge amount of action (and pvp which isnt just blobs, gate camps, or ganking). By the time you "catch up" in eve something else will have probably hit the market which gets you hooked first.
CCP are most likely aware of the game's flaws, but changing them might alienate old players so they cater to them before new ones to hold on to them.
Which explains that after 7 years they've grown from 50K subs to over 300K while most other games outside of WOW start strong and then bleed subs for the rest of their lifecycle.
EVE does attract new players on a regular basis (who fit the target niche) that outstrip the number who unsub.
Many of the myths and first impressions you listed are actually mistaken, and more than one person has gone back to EVE 3 or 4 times only to discover that they were incorrect in their initial assessments.
But that said, its certainly not for everyone, and that's OK too.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Really fast. The game loads in less than a minute and it takes less than 30 secs to log in.
Oh, get "into" EVE? Well, it took me a couple of months, but I screwed up with my first character so I just deleted him and started over. Pain in the butt? Yeah, but now I know what I'm doing (hopefully).
tackler is probably the fastest way to get into eve PVP, it will take you some time though. got to train into scramblers and webs. than the rest is just training skills for dodge tanking because you will practically be 1 shot if something hits you as a tackler. it would probably take 3 months to half decently fly a Tackling ship.
This.
I love EVE. Starting doing Hi Sec stuff.. missions, mining, ratting etc.. Once I got a feel for the game, I started exploring a tad more. Haven't hit 0.0 yet, but I've done some low sec cruising.. mostly solo.. Been in a couple smaller corps, but both were just dead.. So I left and joined the Minmatar Militia, purchased like 20 rifters, and decided to l2pvp in eve. I'm down to 12 rifters now.. But I'm having an absolute blast.. And yes.. Tacklers die quick if you don't stay on your A game. My first few pvp encounters were fast trips to my clone.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
Not really myths, it's exactly how most people feel after their trial ends. Why else would so many others be saying the same thing?
I'm not saying it's a bad game, but most people want something they can get in to quickly and eve is one massive timesink for a small amount of action, whereas mmos like wow are a smallish timesink for a huge amount of action (and pvp which isnt just blobs, gate camps, or ganking). By the time you "catch up" in eve something else will have probably hit the market which gets you hooked first.
CCP are most likely aware of the game's flaws, but changing them might alienate old players so they cater to them before new ones to hold on to them.
I like EVE but this here is the plain fact.
One thing though, EVE is not neccessarily a "massive timesink", it all depends on your play stile. First of all, skill training requires no effort, you just click the skill to train and log off until its done. Regarding other activities in game, you could only log in when your corp has some kind of event (i.e. once a week) to do some PvP or similar. You don't have to be online and stare at stars while nothing is going on....
I tried getting in to it a few times over the years (I think the longest stint was about 2-3 months), but I just found it to slow. Also when you have to compete with people who have been playing for years you will never catch up so your just wasting time. You can't even explore that much either because someone is almost certainly going to kill you at a gate before you have chance to react, because they have nothing else to do (kinda says something about the "end-game" :P)
I wish I'd bothered with it right from the start then I may have stuck with it, but meh. Eve caters for people who have been with it for a long time, not to new players.
Nice. You fit almost all of the common myths about EVE in to just two paragraphs.
Not really myths, it's exactly how most people feel after their trial ends. Why else would so many others be saying the same thing?
I'm not saying it's a bad game, but most people want something they can get in to quickly and eve is one massive timesink for a small amount of action, whereas mmos like wow are a smallish timesink for a huge amount of action (and pvp which isnt just blobs, gate camps, or ganking). By the time you "catch up" in eve something else will have probably hit the market which gets you hooked first.
CCP are most likely aware of the game's flaws, but changing them might alienate old players so they cater to them before new ones to hold on to them.
People can "feel" however they like, but no matter how common a misconception is, it never becomes correct.
if 10 people attempt to do something and 9 of them fail, the 9 guys saying it's impossible are all wrong.
I'm really starting to develop an interest to this game as I love the sandbox concept, and the idea of massive corporation battles really appeals to me. However, I remember reading awhile back that it's very complex to get into, and it can take years to become good. How long does it take to get a decent ship how long does it take it to get into the pvp? The pvp concept really appeals to me but i just simply have months to spare just to get into the game. That being said if it does take a long time to get into, will I still enjoy this game?
I hope you know that in EVE, experience(SP) is gained passively(in real time). So no matter how good or how rich you become, you'd still be stuck in basic gear and skills just because you didn't start training/subscribing earlier.
Then there's the money issue. Unlike your typical MMO where you can PvP all you want from the get-go, without ever worrying about money, here it takes a solo player hours of grind to afford the gear(ship+modules), and only seconds to lose it all. So good luck on joining that rich corp!
I'm really starting to develop an interest to this game as I love the sandbox concept, and the idea of massive corporation battles really appeals to me. However, I remember reading awhile back that it's very complex to get into, and it can take years to become good. How long does it take to get a decent ship how long does it take it to get into the pvp? The pvp concept really appeals to me but i just simply have months to spare just to get into the game. That being said if it does take a long time to get into, will I still enjoy this game?
I hope you know that in EVE, experience(SP) is gained passively(in real time). So no matter how good or how rich you become, you'd still be stuck in basic gear and skills just because you didn't start training/subscribing earlier.
Then there's the money issue. Unlike your typical MMO where you can PvP all you want from the get-go, without ever worrying about money, here it takes a solo player hours of grind to afford the gear(ship+modules), and only seconds to lose it all. So good luck on joining that rich corp!
Man, it's lucky that there isn't a threadright below this one that proves you utterly wrong or you'd look a total fool.
I'm really starting to develop an interest to this game as I love the sandbox concept, and the idea of massive corporation battles really appeals to me. However, I remember reading awhile back that it's very complex to get into, and it can take years to become good. How long does it take to get a decent ship how long does it take it to get into the pvp? The pvp concept really appeals to me but i just simply have months to spare just to get into the game. That being said if it does take a long time to get into, will I still enjoy this game?
I hope you know that in EVE, experience(SP) is gained passively(in real time). So no matter how good or how rich you become, you'd still be stuck in basic gear and skills just because you didn't start training/subscribing earlier.
Then there's the money issue. Unlike your typical MMO where you can PvP all you want from the get-go, without ever worrying about money, here it takes a solo player hours of grind to afford the gear(ship+modules), and only seconds to lose it all. So good luck on joining that rich corp!
Man, it's lucky that there isn't a threadright below this one that proves you utterly wrong or you'd look a total fool.
Hahah that would be funny!
Heh.
LOL! .........................In the posters defense, EVE is a hard game. It's not like the one's most play. Where everything is easy and nothing really matters : P
I'm really starting to develop an interest to this game as I love the sandbox concept, and the idea of massive corporation battles really appeals to me. However, I remember reading awhile back that it's very complex to get into, and it can take years to become good. How long does it take to get a decent ship how long does it take it to get into the pvp? The pvp concept really appeals to me but i just simply have months to spare just to get into the game. That being said if it does take a long time to get into, will I still enjoy this game?
I hope you know that in EVE, experience(SP) is gained passively(in real time). So no matter how good or how rich you become, you'd still be stuck in basic gear and skills just because you didn't start training/subscribing earlier.
Then there's the money issue. Unlike your typical MMO where you can PvP all you want from the get-go, without ever worrying about money, here it takes a solo player hours of grind to afford the gear(ship+modules), and only seconds to lose it all. So good luck on joining that rich corp!
Man, it's lucky that there isn't a threadright below this one that proves you utterly wrong or you'd look a total fool.
Hahah that would be funny!
Heh.
I gave the OP an honest answer on what to expect, not waste time as you did by making me read that thread. Why don't you try the same, and cut the story short. Maybe I'll play EVE again if you can prove anything I said was wrong.
1) I hope you know that in EVE, experience(SP) is gained passively(in real time). So no matter how good or how rich you become, you'd still be stuck in basic gear and skills just because you didn't start training/subscribing earlier.
2) Then there's the money issue. Unlike your typical MMO where you can PvP all you want from the get-go, without ever worrying about money, here it takes a solo player hours of grind to afford the gear(ship+modules), and only seconds to lose it all. So good luck on joining that rich corp!
I gave the OP an honest answer on what to expect, not waste time as you did by making me read that thread. Why don't you try the same, and cut the story short. Maybe I'll play EVE again if you can prove anything I said was wrong.
The gauntlet has been thrown down, I accept your challenge.
1) One of the most common myths about EVE, that if you didn't start with the players 7 years ago you are totally useless and overpowered. Fact is there is no MMORPG game on the market that lets a player who joins today quickly catch up and become competitive (in a single ship type) with veteran players. In less than a month you can fly a frigate with the best of them, and within a 3-6 month span be just about as skilled in most smaller ship types (up through Battleships) and can certainly hang with the vets.
I' ve been playing for 3 years now, and in no way feel overmatched by any vet regardless how much longer they've played than me. I've got more ISK than many of them, and can fly well over 50 ship types at a near maximum skill point level. (doesn't mean I'm actually good at flying all 50, just that its possible.)
2) I'd like you to name the "other games" where you can PVP from the get go, certainly isn't WOW, Aion, LotRO or many other games (yes, I know AOC lets you).
But in EVE you can literally jump into the faction wars from the moment you complete the tutiorials and if you did them all you'll have enough ISK to pay for your first PVP frigate.
Now, it is true, most players do PVE activities of one sort or another to pay for their PVP efforts, but after all, this is an MMORPG and not a FPS'er and you are expected to earn income in this genre. But wait, EVE gives the pure PVP player an out, he (or she) can buy GTC's and sell them in a secured store for in game ISK and never actually do a single PVE activity.
I've actualy fought besides several of these folks in game and they've never run a mission in their life, or mined or done anything else, they just pvp. Sure, it costs them more money to play the game this way, but they feel their free time is too limited to bother with useless grinding but love to fight it out on a regular basis and the game provides the opportunity to do so.
Let me know your in game name so I can say hello next time you log in.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1) I hope you know that in EVE, experience(SP) is gained passively(in real time). So no matter how good or how rich you become, you'd still be stuck in basic gear and skills just because you didn't start training/subscribing earlier.
2) Then there's the money issue. Unlike your typical MMO where you can PvP all you want from the get-go, without ever worrying about money, here it takes a solo player hours of grind to afford the gear(ship+modules), and only seconds to lose it all. So good luck on joining that rich corp!
I gave the OP an honest answer on what to expect, not waste time as you did by making me read that thread. Why don't you try the same, and cut the story short. Maybe I'll play EVE again if you can prove anything I said was wrong.
The gauntlet has been thrown down, I accept your challenge.
1) One of the most common myths about EVE, that if you didn't start with the players 7 years ago you are totally useless and overpowered. Fact is there is no MMORPG game on the market that lets a player who joins today quickly catch up and become competitive (in a single ship type) with veteran players. In less than a month you can fly a frigate with the best of them, and within a 3-6 month span be just about as skilled in most smaller ship types (up through Battleships) and can certainly hang with the vets.
I' ve been playing for 3 years now, and in no way feel overmatched by any vet regardless how much longer they've played than me. I've got more ISK than many of them, and can fly well over 50 ship types at a near maximum skill point level. (doesn't mean I'm actually good at flying all 50, just that its possible.)
2) I'd like you to name the "other games" where you can PVP from the get go, certainly isn't WOW, Aion, LotRO or many other games (yes, I know AOC lets you).
But in EVE you can literally jump into the faction wars from the moment you complete the tutiorials and if you did them all you'll have enough ISK to pay for your first PVP frigate.
Now, it is true, most players do PVE activities of one sort or another to pay for their PVP efforts, but after all, this is an MMORPG and not a FPS'er and you are expected to earn income in this genre. But wait, EVE gives the pure PVP player an out, he (or she) can buy GTC's and sell them in a secured store for in game ISK and never actually do a single PVE activity.
I've actualy fought besides several of these folks in game and they've never run a mission in their life, or mined or done anything else, they just pvp. Sure, it costs them more money to play the game this way, but they feel their free time is too limited to bother with useless grinding but love to fight it out on a regular basis and the game provides the opportunity to do so.
Let me know your in game name so I can say hello next time you log in.
1) "In EVE you don‘t level up like in most games. You purchase skills which then train in real time until finished. The skills train even while you are offline." "Some allow you to fly specific types of ships or use a particular weapon." http://www.eveonline.com/faq/faq_01.asp
I'm not arguing a 'myth' of weather newer players are better than older ones, that's simply how progress(leveling up) in EVE works. In an ideal world, a noob could get all the the isk of EVE in his mailbox at day one and buy all the ships and skill books he wants, but not everyone planning to play EVE should be told to expect something like that.
2) You can join battlegrounds in WoW only after a few days of playing and reaching level 10~19(which is very popular with alts). In WAR you can start PvP at level 5 I think in the T1 zones. In both games you face players of your same level and gear, unlike EVE.
"But in EVE you can literally jump into the faction wars from the moment you complete the tutiorials and if you did them all you'll have enough ISK to pay for your first PVP frigate."
Maybe you can, but not someone who's trying EVE for the first time(unless you're in an ideal world, again).
Best thing to do would be for the OP to try the 14 day trial, and see for himself. EVE is a good game but overhyping is always bad.
1) I hope you know that in EVE, experience(SP) is gained passively(in real time). So no matter how good or how rich you become, you'd still be stuck in basic gear and skills just because you didn't start training/subscribing earlier.
2) Then there's the money issue. Unlike your typical MMO where you can PvP all you want from the get-go, without ever worrying about money, here it takes a solo player hours of grind to afford the gear(ship+modules), and only seconds to lose it all. So good luck on joining that rich corp!
I gave the OP an honest answer on what to expect, not waste time as you did by making me read that thread. Why don't you try the same, and cut the story short. Maybe I'll play EVE again if you can prove anything I said was wrong.
The gauntlet has been thrown down, I accept your challenge.
1) One of the most common myths about EVE, that if you didn't start with the players 7 years ago you are totally useless and overpowered. Fact is there is no MMORPG game on the market that lets a player who joins today quickly catch up and become competitive (in a single ship type) with veteran players. In less than a month you can fly a frigate with the best of them, and within a 3-6 month span be just about as skilled in most smaller ship types (up through Battleships) and can certainly hang with the vets.
I' ve been playing for 3 years now, and in no way feel overmatched by any vet regardless how much longer they've played than me. I've got more ISK than many of them, and can fly well over 50 ship types at a near maximum skill point level. (doesn't mean I'm actually good at flying all 50, just that its possible.)
2) I'd like you to name the "other games" where you can PVP from the get go, certainly isn't WOW, Aion, LotRO or many other games (yes, I know AOC lets you).
But in EVE you can literally jump into the faction wars from the moment you complete the tutiorials and if you did them all you'll have enough ISK to pay for your first PVP frigate.
Now, it is true, most players do PVE activities of one sort or another to pay for their PVP efforts, but after all, this is an MMORPG and not a FPS'er and you are expected to earn income in this genre. But wait, EVE gives the pure PVP player an out, he (or she) can buy GTC's and sell them in a secured store for in game ISK and never actually do a single PVE activity.
I've actualy fought besides several of these folks in game and they've never run a mission in their life, or mined or done anything else, they just pvp. Sure, it costs them more money to play the game this way, but they feel their free time is too limited to bother with useless grinding but love to fight it out on a regular basis and the game provides the opportunity to do so.
Let me know your in game name so I can say hello next time you log in.
1) "In EVE you don‘t level up like in most games. You purchase skills which then train in real time until finished. The skills train even while you are offline." "Some allow you to fly specific types of ships or use a particular weapon." http://www.eveonline.com/faq/faq_01.asp
I'm not arguing a 'myth' of weather newer players are better than older ones, that's simply how progress(leveling up) in EVE works. In an ideal world, a noob could get all the the isk of EVE in his mailbox at day one and buy all the ships and skill books he wants, but not everyone planning to play EVE should be told to expect something like that.
2) You can join battlegrounds in WoW only after a few days of playing and reaching level 10~19(which is very popular with alts). In WAR you can start PvP at level 5 I think in the T1 zones. In both games you face players of your same level and gear, unlike EVE.
"But in EVE you can literally jump into the faction wars from the moment you complete the tutiorials and if you did them all you'll have enough ISK to pay for your first PVP frigate."
Maybe you can, but not someone who's trying EVE for the first time(unless you're in an ideal world, again).
Best thing to do would be for the OP to try the 14 day trial, and see for himself. EVE is a good game but overhyping is always bad.
I recently fought beside a player who was totally new to EVE, had been playing about 1.5 months and had a kill to loss ration in faction wars of 130-7. It can be done, just a matter of how a player approaches the game.
I didn't overhype anything just stated how EVE can be played and dismissed a couple of well known myths regarding its skill advancement system and how viable you can be in pvp starting out vs other games.
BTW, just try and run a WOW battleground at anything less than level 19 and see what happens to you. Even then, the twinks will destroy any 3 of you.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1) I hope you know that in EVE, experience(SP) is gained passively(in real time). So no matter how good or how rich you become, you'd still be stuck in basic gear and skills just because you didn't start training/subscribing earlier.
2) Then there's the money issue. Unlike your typical MMO where you can PvP all you want from the get-go, without ever worrying about money, here it takes a solo player hours of grind to afford the gear(ship+modules), and only seconds to lose it all. So good luck on joining that rich corp!
I gave the OP an honest answer on what to expect, not waste time as you did by making me read that thread. Why don't you try the same, and cut the story short. Maybe I'll play EVE again if you can prove anything I said was wrong.
The gauntlet has been thrown down, I accept your challenge.
1) One of the most common myths about EVE, that if you didn't start with the players 7 years ago you are totally useless and overpowered. Fact is there is no MMORPG game on the market that lets a player who joins today quickly catch up and become competitive (in a single ship type) with veteran players. In less than a month you can fly a frigate with the best of them, and within a 3-6 month span be just about as skilled in most smaller ship types (up through Battleships) and can certainly hang with the vets.
I' ve been playing for 3 years now, and in no way feel overmatched by any vet regardless how much longer they've played than me. I've got more ISK than many of them, and can fly well over 50 ship types at a near maximum skill point level. (doesn't mean I'm actually good at flying all 50, just that its possible.)
2) I'd like you to name the "other games" where you can PVP from the get go, certainly isn't WOW, Aion, LotRO or many other games (yes, I know AOC lets you).
But in EVE you can literally jump into the faction wars from the moment you complete the tutiorials and if you did them all you'll have enough ISK to pay for your first PVP frigate.
Now, it is true, most players do PVE activities of one sort or another to pay for their PVP efforts, but after all, this is an MMORPG and not a FPS'er and you are expected to earn income in this genre. But wait, EVE gives the pure PVP player an out, he (or she) can buy GTC's and sell them in a secured store for in game ISK and never actually do a single PVE activity.
I've actualy fought besides several of these folks in game and they've never run a mission in their life, or mined or done anything else, they just pvp. Sure, it costs them more money to play the game this way, but they feel their free time is too limited to bother with useless grinding but love to fight it out on a regular basis and the game provides the opportunity to do so.
Let me know your in game name so I can say hello next time you log in.
1) "In EVE you don‘t level up like in most games. You purchase skills which then train in real time until finished. The skills train even while you are offline." "Some allow you to fly specific types of ships or use a particular weapon." http://www.eveonline.com/faq/faq_01.asp
I'm not arguing a 'myth' of weather newer players are better than older ones, that's simply how progress(leveling up) in EVE works. In an ideal world, a noob could get all the the isk of EVE in his mailbox at day one and buy all the ships and skill books he wants, but not everyone planning to play EVE should be told to expect something like that.
2) You can join battlegrounds in WoW only after a few days of playing and reaching level 10~19(which is very popular with alts). In WAR you can start PvP at level 5 I think in the T1 zones. In both games you face players of your same level and gear, unlike EVE.
"But in EVE you can literally jump into the faction wars from the moment you complete the tutiorials and if you did them all you'll have enough ISK to pay for your first PVP frigate."
Maybe you can, but not someone who's trying EVE for the first time(unless you're in an ideal world, again).
Best thing to do would be for the OP to try the 14 day trial, and see for himself. EVE is a good game but overhyping is always bad.
Honestly, it's not that they cant, it's just that they usually dont. Not the same thing. People generally have a lot of fear (to be nice, you could call it caution), but sometimes you meet a guy in game who just doesn't give a shit about losing, who plays to be the hunter, not the prey, and starts getting kills from a few days in. No-one is saying that it's easy, only that it's possible.
Most corps wont accept trial players (because of the spy issues, not because of SP). By the time you've completed a 21-day trial, you've had more than enough time to prepare for PvP if that's what you really want to do.
"1) "In EVE you don‘t level up like in most games. You purchase skills which then train in real time until finished. The skills train even while you are offline." "Some allow you to fly specific types of ships or use a particular weapon." http://www.eveonline.com/faq/faq_01.asp"
This is true, but it's also true that skills are capped at level 5. Once you've got a skill to 5, that's it, you cant get any better. And there are only so many skills that can apply to any ship. And every single ship has at least one, usually more, weak points, many of which can be exploited by weak players. Not all, of course - part of the reason why one accumulates skills is to broaden one's opportunities. I have never seen any evidence that players are limited from progressing in EVE more than in any other game. It only seems like that because you can't grind skillpoints. But if you could grind SP, you'd be no better off. Instead of a 7-year wait behind the 03 vets, you'd be a 7-year grind behind them. Dear god, no! Fuck that!
I'm really starting to develop an interest to this game as I love the sandbox concept, and the idea of massive corporation battles really appeals to me. However, I remember reading awhile back that it's very complex to get into, and it can take years to become good. How long does it take to get a decent ship how long does it take it to get into the pvp? The pvp concept really appeals to me but i just simply have months to spare just to get into the game. That being said if it does take a long time to get into, will I still enjoy this game?
Before answering your questions, you should know that there is a certain set of skills that shortens the amount of time it takes to learn all other skills - 'Learning skills'. If you plan to stay for a long time it is recommended that you train them as soon as possible. Maximizing all learning skills takes roughly around 3 months if you train them in proper order and with proper implants (it can take much longer otherwise). You don't have to train them the moment you start playing but sooner the better.
How long does it take to get a decent ship how long does it take it to get into the pvp?
Every ship in EVE more or less serves for a specific role. The quickest one to train is the frigate (smallest class) which serves as a 'tackler' - prevent bigger ships from running away until your friends with bigger ships come and finish the job. Additionaly, you can PvP with other frigate class ships. To be capable of doing your job as a tackler takes 2-3 weeks. To be efficient it takes about 2-3 months of training various skills.
Next is 'cruiser' class of ships which take additional 2-3 months of training to be efficient. Battle cruisers will take additional few months and battleships around a year at least. There are more classes but these are just examples to give you a better feel of what to expect.
Some might argue that I am over estimating and it is technically true that you can obtain the skill to fly a certain ship in shorter time BUT it is recommended that you don't fly a ship until you have other skills trained in order to fit that ship properly. Flying a BC i.e. without proper shield or armor moduls will get you killed far to often and will prove very very costly and unwise. So, you must take all this into account.
That being said if it does take a long time to get into, will I still enjoy this game?
PvP in EVE is expensive ISK wise. You will die a lot! No matter how skilled you are or how well fitted your ship is you will get killed and lose your ship, modules and implants over and over again. This is not neccessarily a bad thing but you should know that with such a harsh death penalty you will have to find a way to earn ISK. If you are a heavy PvPer, which I assume you are, you will be faced with 3 options:
1. You will have to get involved in ISK making tasks (mining, trading, production etc.) or create an alt dedicated to making ISK. If you create an alt on the same account as your main char you won't be able to train skills on both of them simultaneously. You will have to open another account (thus paying 2 subs) to train another char at the same time.
2. You will have to run missions (PvE) to earn ISK. Some players like it but I find it repetitve and boring after some time. In any case, less time for PvP.
3. You will have to invest real money to buy GTCs and sell them in game for ISK. 1 x GTC equals 2 month subscription and many ISK rich players buy those and literarly play EVE for free. Cool eh? But you are aimimng at PvP so you will need ISK for replacing your ships and stuff first, and GTCs are quite expensive.
Additionaly, you can find a good corp that has a ship replacement program and funds your loses. This is not an easy task and you will have to prove yourself to be a valuable member before you get accepted. Unless you are very lucky, it will take some time before you achieve this.
Speaking of good corps, in my opininon, this is the most important thing in EVE. If you find a good corp you will most likely have a great time and love this game. Good corp will probably offset all dislikes you might have regarding skill training or other mechanics of EVE.
I'm really starting to develop an interest to this game as I love the sandbox concept, and the idea of massive corporation battles really appeals to me. However, I remember reading awhile back that it's very complex to get into, and it can take years to become good. How long does it take to get a decent ship how long does it take it to get into the pvp? The pvp concept really appeals to me but i just simply have months to spare just to get into the game. That being said if it does take a long time to get into, will I still enjoy this game?
Before answering your questions, you should know that there is a certain set of skills that shortens the amount of time it takes to learn all other skills - 'Learning skills'. If you plan to stay for a long time it is recommended that you train them as soon as possible. Maximizing all learning skills takes roughly around 3 months if you train them in proper order and with proper implants (it can take much longer otherwise). You don't have to train them the moment you start playing but sooner the better.
How long does it take to get a decent ship how long does it take it to get into the pvp?
Every ship in EVE more or less serves for a specific role. The quickest one to train is the frigate (smallest class) which serves as a 'tackler' - prevent bigger ships from running away until your friends with bigger ships come and finish the job. Additionaly, you can PvP with other frigate class ships. To be capable of doing your job as a tackler takes 2-3 weeks. To be efficient it takes about 2-3 months of training various skills.
Next is 'cruiser' class of ships which take additional 2-3 months of training to be efficient. Battle cruisers will take additional few months and battleships around a year at least. There are more classes but these are just examples to give you a better feel of what to expect.
Some might argue that I am over estimating and it is technically true that you can obtain the skill to fly a certain ship in shorter time BUT it is recommended that you don't fly a ship until you have other skills trained in order to fit that ship properly. Flying a BC i.e. without proper shield or armor moduls will get you killed far to often and will prove very very costly and unwise. So, you must take all this into account.
That being said if it does take a long time to get into, will I still enjoy this game?
PvP in EVE is expensive ISK wise. You will die a lot! No matter how skilled you are or how well fitted your ship is you will get killed and lose your ship, modules and implants over and over again. This is not neccessarily a bad thing but you should know that with such a harsh death penalty you will have to find a way to earn ISK. If you are a heavy PvPer, which I assume you are, you will be faced with 3 options:
1. You will have to get involved in ISK making tasks (mining, trading, production etc.) or create an alt dedicated to making ISK. If you create an alt on the same account as your main char you won't be able to train skills on both of them simultaneously. You will have to open another account (thus paying 2 subs) to train another char at the same time.
2. You will have to run missions (PvE) to earn ISK. Some players like it but I find it repetitve and boring after some time. In any case, less time for PvP.
3. You will have to invest real money to buy GTCs and sell them in game for ISK. 1 x GTC equals 2 month subscription and many ISK rich players buy those and literarly play EVE for free. Cool eh? But you are aimimng at PvP so you will need ISK for replacing your ships and stuff first, and GTCs are quite expensive.
Additionaly, you can find a good corp that has a ship replacement program and funds your loses. This is not an easy task and you will have to prove yourself to be a valuable member before you get accepted. Unless you are very lucky, it will take some time before you achieve this.
Speaking of good corps, in my opininon, this is the most important thing in EVE. If you find a good corp you will most likely have a great time and love this game. Good corp will probably offset all dislikes you might have regarding skill training or other mechanics of EVE.
A lot of reasons why people don't stick around with EvE is points 1 and 2 of your post are incredibly boring. The new player is told in the tutorial to run missions which after the 3rd time you do that, you rather watch paint dry. Thus we come to why Eve, while successful in its own right, isn't for everyone. For all the good parts it has, it's surrounded by really boring parts.
I'm really starting to develop an interest to this game as I love the sandbox concept, and the idea of massive corporation battles really appeals to me. However, I remember reading awhile back that it's very complex to get into, and it can take years to become good. How long does it take to get a decent ship how long does it take it to get into the pvp? The pvp concept really appeals to me but i just simply have months to spare just to get into the game. That being said if it does take a long time to get into, will I still enjoy this game?
Before answering your questions, you should know that there is a certain set of skills that shortens the amount of time it takes to learn all other skills - 'Learning skills'. If you plan to stay for a long time it is recommended that you train them as soon as possible. Maximizing all learning skills takes roughly around 3 months if you train them in proper order and with proper implants (it can take much longer otherwise). You don't have to train them the moment you start playing but sooner the better.
How long does it take to get a decent ship how long does it take it to get into the pvp?
Every ship in EVE more or less serves for a specific role. The quickest one to train is the frigate (smallest class) which serves as a 'tackler' - prevent bigger ships from running away until your friends with bigger ships come and finish the job. Additionaly, you can PvP with other frigate class ships. To be capable of doing your job as a tackler takes 2-3 weeks. To be efficient it takes about 2-3 months of training various skills.
Next is 'cruiser' class of ships which take additional 2-3 months of training to be efficient. Battle cruisers will take additional few months and battleships around a year at least. There are more classes but these are just examples to give you a better feel of what to expect.
Some might argue that I am over estimating and it is technically true that you can obtain the skill to fly a certain ship in shorter time BUT it is recommended that you don't fly a ship until you have other skills trained in order to fit that ship properly. Flying a BC i.e. without proper shield or armor moduls will get you killed far to often and will prove very very costly and unwise. So, you must take all this into account.
That being said if it does take a long time to get into, will I still enjoy this game?
PvP in EVE is expensive ISK wise. You will die a lot! No matter how skilled you are or how well fitted your ship is you will get killed and lose your ship, modules and implants over and over again. This is not neccessarily a bad thing but you should know that with such a harsh death penalty you will have to find a way to earn ISK. If you are a heavy PvPer, which I assume you are, you will be faced with 3 options:
1. You will have to get involved in ISK making tasks (mining, trading, production etc.) or create an alt dedicated to making ISK. If you create an alt on the same account as your main char you won't be able to train skills on both of them simultaneously. You will have to open another account (thus paying 2 subs) to train another char at the same time.
2. You will have to run missions (PvE) to earn ISK. Some players like it but I find it repetitve and boring after some time. In any case, less time for PvP.
3. You will have to invest real money to buy GTCs and sell them in game for ISK. 1 x GTC equals 2 month subscription and many ISK rich players buy those and literarly play EVE for free. Cool eh? But you are aimimng at PvP so you will need ISK for replacing your ships and stuff first, and GTCs are quite expensive.
Additionaly, you can find a good corp that has a ship replacement program and funds your loses. This is not an easy task and you will have to prove yourself to be a valuable member before you get accepted. Unless you are very lucky, it will take some time before you achieve this.
Speaking of good corps, in my opininon, this is the most important thing in EVE. If you find a good corp you will most likely have a great time and love this game. Good corp will probably offset all dislikes you might have regarding skill training or other mechanics of EVE.
A lot of reasons why people don't stick around with EvE is points 1 and 2 of your post are incredibly boring. The new player is told in the tutorial to run missions which after the 3rd time you do that, you rather watch paint dry. Thus we come to why Eve, while successful in its own right, isn't for everyone. For all the good parts it has, it's surrounded by really boring parts.
EVE is more for the players that don't like the '1 week powergrind to lvl 80+instance farming-no risk' arcade themepark MMORPGS like a certain Blizzard game.
For people who are used to that gamestyle and expect to be King of the Hill in 1 week, EVE is indeed not your game.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
A lot of reasons why people don't stick around with EvE is points 1 and 2 of your post are incredibly boring. The new player is told in the tutorial to run missions which after the 3rd time you do that, you rather watch paint dry. Thus we come to why Eve, while successful in its own right, isn't for everyone. For all the good parts it has, it's surrounded by really boring parts.
Missions can be interesting if you push yourself for a challenge.
For instance, in my cruiser I have the necessary support skills to fit a decent passive tank and rely on my drones more then anything. Doing such I run level 2 missions.
Sometimes I just blow through wave after wave of frigates. Other times I'm toe to toe with other cruisers, destroyers, sometimes tanking two cruisers at once and at times I can't tank all the damage and have to jump out. Often have to switch out my resistance plates.
Join a good corp with interesting people to talk to, and running missions together with other people is a lot more enjoyable. And you can take a bite at more challenging missions.
As for mining.. well.... mining is boring IMO.
I'm waiting to get into Eve-Universtiy, but if a new player applies to join eve-u their first day by the time they finish their tutorial agent missions and get most of the way through the Sisters of Eve epic arc (you need a cruiser or group mates eventually to finish it) they'll probably have enough skills trained and enough isk to really make a good start.
Missions are boring, there's no denying it. Luckily there are much more exciting ways of making ISK.
For instance I just spent 3 days plexing in 0.0 with 3 friends. The twist was that we were plexing in enemy territory, which adds considerably to the risk. Made a couple of bill, lost one drake, enjoyed the additional satisfaction of filching A-type and X-type resources from my enemies. Should I so chose, those 3 days of intensive - and enjoyable - effort will mean that I can just PVP for 3 months or more. (But it's so tempting to keep going back for more!)
EDIT: That's not to say I dont do missions. They're an easy way to accumulate ISK when I dont feel up to playing EVE
Comments
I dont think someone who only ever posts in the EVE forum to try and stop people even trying the game gets to call anyone "super mega rabid".
Jesus man, take a look at yourself.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I don't know if anyone linked this, but it's a good representation of EVE's learning curve.
Yes, it's true... EVE is hard and sometimes unfair, but you must consider one thing - every one of us "old players" were at some point new to this game. We've all gone through the same. The point of EVE is social interaction because it's a true MMO. Yes, you can play it solo, but that way you're choosing much more difficult path for yourself. There are numerous corporations and even alliances (some of them very powerful on the political map of EVE) that are accepting new and totally inexperienced players, providing them with free ships, skills and tutorials for effective gameplay. I know that because I've been a CEO of one such corporation. I've gathered a couple of new players (like me at that time) and we built our corporation from scratch while learning from each other and having fun in the process. After a year or so, we had around 35 members and we got an offer to join one of the most powerful 0.0 alliances in game which we kindly accepted.
As you can see, EVE is an MMO and that means - social interaction. If you are new to the game, the best thing you can do is to find a corporation that can help you learn the game.
ROFL, was thinking the exact same thing when I read this post.
Here's a tip from a "super mega rabid" EVE fanboi.
Give EVE a fair try, be sure to interact socially, don't judge the game on its early PVE, try to do some PVP and you might just like it.
Or not.
No big deal, you'll enjoy some other game then.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Pretty much. The second you undock you have to work under the assumption that ship is not coming back.
It does not take years to be useful in PvP. Why do people keep saying that? Make a few friends who are also new and form a fleet, two rifters and a griffon in low sec would definitely get kills.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Not really myths, it's exactly how most people feel after their trial ends. Why else would so many others be saying the same thing?
I'm not saying it's a bad game, but most people want something they can get in to quickly and eve is one massive timesink for a small amount of action, whereas mmos like wow are a smallish timesink for a huge amount of action (and pvp which isnt just blobs, gate camps, or ganking). By the time you "catch up" in eve something else will have probably hit the market which gets you hooked first.
CCP are most likely aware of the game's flaws, but changing them might alienate old players so they cater to them before new ones to hold on to them.
Which explains that after 7 years they've grown from 50K subs to over 300K while most other games outside of WOW start strong and then bleed subs for the rest of their lifecycle.
EVE does attract new players on a regular basis (who fit the target niche) that outstrip the number who unsub.
Many of the myths and first impressions you listed are actually mistaken, and more than one person has gone back to EVE 3 or 4 times only to discover that they were incorrect in their initial assessments.
But that said, its certainly not for everyone, and that's OK too.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Really fast. The game loads in less than a minute and it takes less than 30 secs to log in.
Oh, get "into" EVE? Well, it took me a couple of months, but I screwed up with my first character so I just deleted him and started over. Pain in the butt? Yeah, but now I know what I'm doing (hopefully).
This.
I love EVE. Starting doing Hi Sec stuff.. missions, mining, ratting etc.. Once I got a feel for the game, I started exploring a tad more. Haven't hit 0.0 yet, but I've done some low sec cruising.. mostly solo.. Been in a couple smaller corps, but both were just dead.. So I left and joined the Minmatar Militia, purchased like 20 rifters, and decided to l2pvp in eve. I'm down to 12 rifters now.. But I'm having an absolute blast.. And yes.. Tacklers die quick if you don't stay on your A game. My first few pvp encounters were fast trips to my clone.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
I like EVE but this here is the plain fact.
One thing though, EVE is not neccessarily a "massive timesink", it all depends on your play stile. First of all, skill training requires no effort, you just click the skill to train and log off until its done. Regarding other activities in game, you could only log in when your corp has some kind of event (i.e. once a week) to do some PvP or similar. You don't have to be online and stare at stars while nothing is going on....
People can "feel" however they like, but no matter how common a misconception is, it never becomes correct.
if 10 people attempt to do something and 9 of them fail, the 9 guys saying it's impossible are all wrong.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I hope you know that in EVE, experience(SP) is gained passively(in real time). So no matter how good or how rich you become, you'd still be stuck in basic gear and skills just because you didn't start training/subscribing earlier.
Then there's the money issue. Unlike your typical MMO where you can PvP all you want from the get-go, without ever worrying about money, here it takes a solo player hours of grind to afford the gear(ship+modules), and only seconds to lose it all. So good luck on joining that rich corp!
Man, it's lucky that there isn't a thread right below this one that proves you utterly wrong or you'd look a total fool.
Hahah that would be funny!
Heh.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
LOL! .........................In the posters defense, EVE is a hard game. It's not like the one's most play. Where everything is easy and nothing really matters : P
I gave the OP an honest answer on what to expect, not waste time as you did by making me read that thread. Why don't you try the same, and cut the story short. Maybe I'll play EVE again if you can prove anything I said was wrong.
The gauntlet has been thrown down, I accept your challenge.
1) One of the most common myths about EVE, that if you didn't start with the players 7 years ago you are totally useless and overpowered. Fact is there is no MMORPG game on the market that lets a player who joins today quickly catch up and become competitive (in a single ship type) with veteran players. In less than a month you can fly a frigate with the best of them, and within a 3-6 month span be just about as skilled in most smaller ship types (up through Battleships) and can certainly hang with the vets.
I' ve been playing for 3 years now, and in no way feel overmatched by any vet regardless how much longer they've played than me. I've got more ISK than many of them, and can fly well over 50 ship types at a near maximum skill point level. (doesn't mean I'm actually good at flying all 50, just that its possible.)
2) I'd like you to name the "other games" where you can PVP from the get go, certainly isn't WOW, Aion, LotRO or many other games (yes, I know AOC lets you).
But in EVE you can literally jump into the faction wars from the moment you complete the tutiorials and if you did them all you'll have enough ISK to pay for your first PVP frigate.
Now, it is true, most players do PVE activities of one sort or another to pay for their PVP efforts, but after all, this is an MMORPG and not a FPS'er and you are expected to earn income in this genre. But wait, EVE gives the pure PVP player an out, he (or she) can buy GTC's and sell them in a secured store for in game ISK and never actually do a single PVE activity.
I've actualy fought besides several of these folks in game and they've never run a mission in their life, or mined or done anything else, they just pvp. Sure, it costs them more money to play the game this way, but they feel their free time is too limited to bother with useless grinding but love to fight it out on a regular basis and the game provides the opportunity to do so.
Let me know your in game name so I can say hello next time you log in.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Kyleran made a much nicer reply than I was going to, so I'll just leave it with a "what he said".
Give me liberty or give me lasers
1) "In EVE you don‘t level up like in most games. You purchase skills which then train in real time until finished. The skills train even while you are offline." "Some allow you to fly specific types of ships or use a particular weapon." http://www.eveonline.com/faq/faq_01.asp
I'm not arguing a 'myth' of weather newer players are better than older ones, that's simply how progress(leveling up) in EVE works. In an ideal world, a noob could get all the the isk of EVE in his mailbox at day one and buy all the ships and skill books he wants, but not everyone planning to play EVE should be told to expect something like that.
2) You can join battlegrounds in WoW only after a few days of playing and reaching level 10~19(which is very popular with alts). In WAR you can start PvP at level 5 I think in the T1 zones. In both games you face players of your same level and gear, unlike EVE.
"But in EVE you can literally jump into the faction wars from the moment you complete the tutiorials and if you did them all you'll have enough ISK to pay for your first PVP frigate."
Maybe you can, but not someone who's trying EVE for the first time(unless you're in an ideal world, again).
Best thing to do would be for the OP to try the 14 day trial, and see for himself. EVE is a good game but overhyping is always bad.
I recently fought beside a player who was totally new to EVE, had been playing about 1.5 months and had a kill to loss ration in faction wars of 130-7. It can be done, just a matter of how a player approaches the game.
I didn't overhype anything just stated how EVE can be played and dismissed a couple of well known myths regarding its skill advancement system and how viable you can be in pvp starting out vs other games.
BTW, just try and run a WOW battleground at anything less than level 19 and see what happens to you. Even then, the twinks will destroy any 3 of you.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Honestly, it's not that they cant, it's just that they usually dont. Not the same thing. People generally have a lot of fear (to be nice, you could call it caution), but sometimes you meet a guy in game who just doesn't give a shit about losing, who plays to be the hunter, not the prey, and starts getting kills from a few days in. No-one is saying that it's easy, only that it's possible.
Most corps wont accept trial players (because of the spy issues, not because of SP). By the time you've completed a 21-day trial, you've had more than enough time to prepare for PvP if that's what you really want to do.
"1) "In EVE you don‘t level up like in most games. You purchase skills which then train in real time until finished. The skills train even while you are offline." "Some allow you to fly specific types of ships or use a particular weapon." http://www.eveonline.com/faq/faq_01.asp"
This is true, but it's also true that skills are capped at level 5. Once you've got a skill to 5, that's it, you cant get any better. And there are only so many skills that can apply to any ship. And every single ship has at least one, usually more, weak points, many of which can be exploited by weak players. Not all, of course - part of the reason why one accumulates skills is to broaden one's opportunities. I have never seen any evidence that players are limited from progressing in EVE more than in any other game. It only seems like that because you can't grind skillpoints. But if you could grind SP, you'd be no better off. Instead of a 7-year wait behind the 03 vets, you'd be a 7-year grind behind them. Dear god, no! Fuck that!
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Before answering your questions, you should know that there is a certain set of skills that shortens the amount of time it takes to learn all other skills - 'Learning skills'. If you plan to stay for a long time it is recommended that you train them as soon as possible. Maximizing all learning skills takes roughly around 3 months if you train them in proper order and with proper implants (it can take much longer otherwise). You don't have to train them the moment you start playing but sooner the better.
How long does it take to get a decent ship how long does it take it to get into the pvp?
Every ship in EVE more or less serves for a specific role. The quickest one to train is the frigate (smallest class) which serves as a 'tackler' - prevent bigger ships from running away until your friends with bigger ships come and finish the job. Additionaly, you can PvP with other frigate class ships. To be capable of doing your job as a tackler takes 2-3 weeks. To be efficient it takes about 2-3 months of training various skills.
Next is 'cruiser' class of ships which take additional 2-3 months of training to be efficient. Battle cruisers will take additional few months and battleships around a year at least. There are more classes but these are just examples to give you a better feel of what to expect.
Some might argue that I am over estimating and it is technically true that you can obtain the skill to fly a certain ship in shorter time BUT it is recommended that you don't fly a ship until you have other skills trained in order to fit that ship properly. Flying a BC i.e. without proper shield or armor moduls will get you killed far to often and will prove very very costly and unwise. So, you must take all this into account.
That being said if it does take a long time to get into, will I still enjoy this game?
PvP in EVE is expensive ISK wise. You will die a lot! No matter how skilled you are or how well fitted your ship is you will get killed and lose your ship, modules and implants over and over again. This is not neccessarily a bad thing but you should know that with such a harsh death penalty you will have to find a way to earn ISK. If you are a heavy PvPer, which I assume you are, you will be faced with 3 options:
1. You will have to get involved in ISK making tasks (mining, trading, production etc.) or create an alt dedicated to making ISK. If you create an alt on the same account as your main char you won't be able to train skills on both of them simultaneously. You will have to open another account (thus paying 2 subs) to train another char at the same time.
2. You will have to run missions (PvE) to earn ISK. Some players like it but I find it repetitve and boring after some time. In any case, less time for PvP.
3. You will have to invest real money to buy GTCs and sell them in game for ISK. 1 x GTC equals 2 month subscription and many ISK rich players buy those and literarly play EVE for free. Cool eh? But you are aimimng at PvP so you will need ISK for replacing your ships and stuff first, and GTCs are quite expensive.
Additionaly, you can find a good corp that has a ship replacement program and funds your loses. This is not an easy task and you will have to prove yourself to be a valuable member before you get accepted. Unless you are very lucky, it will take some time before you achieve this.
Speaking of good corps, in my opininon, this is the most important thing in EVE. If you find a good corp you will most likely have a great time and love this game. Good corp will probably offset all dislikes you might have regarding skill training or other mechanics of EVE.
You don't get into Eve it gets into you.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
A lot of reasons why people don't stick around with EvE is points 1 and 2 of your post are incredibly boring. The new player is told in the tutorial to run missions which after the 3rd time you do that, you rather watch paint dry. Thus we come to why Eve, while successful in its own right, isn't for everyone. For all the good parts it has, it's surrounded by really boring parts.
EVE is more for the players that don't like the '1 week powergrind to lvl 80+instance farming-no risk' arcade themepark MMORPGS like a certain Blizzard game.
For people who are used to that gamestyle and expect to be King of the Hill in 1 week, EVE is indeed not your game.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Missions can be interesting if you push yourself for a challenge.
For instance, in my cruiser I have the necessary support skills to fit a decent passive tank and rely on my drones more then anything. Doing such I run level 2 missions.
Sometimes I just blow through wave after wave of frigates. Other times I'm toe to toe with other cruisers, destroyers, sometimes tanking two cruisers at once and at times I can't tank all the damage and have to jump out. Often have to switch out my resistance plates.
Join a good corp with interesting people to talk to, and running missions together with other people is a lot more enjoyable. And you can take a bite at more challenging missions.
As for mining.. well.... mining is boring IMO.
I'm waiting to get into Eve-Universtiy, but if a new player applies to join eve-u their first day by the time they finish their tutorial agent missions and get most of the way through the Sisters of Eve epic arc (you need a cruiser or group mates eventually to finish it) they'll probably have enough skills trained and enough isk to really make a good start.
Missions are boring, there's no denying it. Luckily there are much more exciting ways of making ISK.
For instance I just spent 3 days plexing in 0.0 with 3 friends. The twist was that we were plexing in enemy territory, which adds considerably to the risk. Made a couple of bill, lost one drake, enjoyed the additional satisfaction of filching A-type and X-type resources from my enemies. Should I so chose, those 3 days of intensive - and enjoyable - effort will mean that I can just PVP for 3 months or more. (But it's so tempting to keep going back for more!)
EDIT: That's not to say I dont do missions. They're an easy way to accumulate ISK when I dont feel up to playing EVE
Give me liberty or give me lasers