No game is going to go under simply because another game comes out. You could argue that it may be one factor among many that could lead to a game coming to an end, but it certainly won't be directly related to SWTOR within itself.
Warhammer's days are numbered but it has nothing to do with the eventual launch of SWTOR.
As for AoC, I think that game is around for the long haul although it will never live up to what the game could have been due to Funcom's handling of things during the first six months of that game's life. Even outside of those issues and all the changes they have made it really isn't t impressive compared to other mmos out there least in my opinion. Still, I don't see it going under any time soon either.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
ooook. Do you know what the most popular Star Wars game of all time was? Do you know what mmo SWG players were actually clamoring for when SWG was in development? After SWG was released, what game they chanted for? After the CU and NGE debacle what game they petitioned for? There in lies your answer.
Well, if we are going to compare numbers - how many KOTOR era movies have there been? How many boxes have the SW era games sold in total - compared to KOTOR era?
Just saying - I am a fan of (four of) the movies, and have no interest in KOTOR at all. I don't think that is a rare opinion.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
ooook. Do you know what the most popular Star Wars game of all time was? Do you know what mmo SWG players were actually clamoring for when SWG was in development? After SWG was released, what game they chanted for? After the CU and NGE debacle what game they petitioned for? There in lies your answer.
Well, if we are going to compare numbers - how many KOTOR era movies have there been? How many boxes have the SW era games sold in total - compared to KOTOR era?
Just saying - I am a fan of (four of) the movies, and have no interest in KOTOR at all. I don't think that is a rare opinion.
Movies?!?
I'm not talking about overthrowing WoW with new mmo players and such, that's bogus, I'm talking about the existing players of Star Wars video games, and those that will leave the dark side of the force (SWG) and come to the light. Those players saw the movies, yes, and the series, of course, and read the books, no doubt, and listened to the audio books, I'm sure. In these places you find Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.
I'm not talking about overthrowing WoW with new mmo players and such, that's bogus, I'm talking about the existing players of Star Wars video games, and those that will leave the dark side of the force (SWG) and come to the light. Those players saw the movies, yes, and the series, of course, and read the books, no doubt, and listened to the audio books, I'm sure. In these places you find Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
I admit I find your way with words amusing.
About SWTOR: "I have a bad feeling about this."
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I'm not saying it's going to be good, that is something to be seen, but it doesn't have to try hard to beat down SWG at this point, take it's existing subs and reclaim the many subs that SWG has lost. It's got the strongest Star Wars game ip behind it, and Bioware is certainly a lot more popular than SOE these days, and for very good reasons; SOE's reasons.
I find it highly interesting many people are able to talk with the authority of highly knowledgable developers based on limited knowledge of what the game is actualy going to invlove. i have read every piece of information released, watched every video, and enjoyed all the speculation/rumor talk. I have played wow, aion,aoc,and coh. One thing is true, they can all coexisit, and will continue to because the game content is more or less the same in all of them. What keeps people playing them is simply how invested they become in their individual characters. People stay with wow, not because it is this highly original captivateing experience, but because they have established a large portion of their social life ( if not all of it) into the character they have built. The idea that we know what swtor is going to succeed or fail at gameplay wise is obsurd because the scraps of information dropped here and there by the devs is not a substitute for playing the actual finnished product. I am very excited personally for dcuo and swtor. I love that we can gather and discuss our excitement and hopes for the game. I dont begrudge others their desire to stay with wow or something else. Lets stop acting like we know something we dont. Go enjoy your game, and allow us to look forward to what could be ours.
I find it highly interesting many people are able to talk with the authority of highly knowledgable developers based on limited knowledge of what the game is actualy going to invlove. i have read every piece of information released, watched every video, and enjoyed all the speculation/rumor talk. I have played wow, aion,aoc,and coh. One thing is true, they can all coexisit, and will continue to because the game content is more or less the same in all of them. What keeps people playing them is simply how invested they become in their individual characters. People stay with wow, not because it is this highly original captivateing experience, but because they have established a large portion of their social life ( if not all of it) into the character they have built. The idea that we know what swtor is going to succeed or fail at gameplay wise is obsurd because the scraps of information dropped here and there by the devs is not a substitute for playing the actual finnished product. I am very excited personally for dcuo and swtor. I love that we can gather and discuss our excitement and hopes for the game. I dont begrudge others their desire to stay with wow or something else. Lets stop acting like we know something we dont. Go enjoy your game, and allow us to look forward to what could be ours.
I agree to a point though I feel it is more about friends built over time than it is any particular attachment to characters. Some people maybe, but I think the majority will play whatever their friends are playing. Will a lot of people buy SWTOR? Sure, but time will tell if they stay or not. It will all depend on the 'Alpha' males. If the Alphas embrace the game then their friends will stick around. If they trash the game their friends will most likely leave too, no matter their personal opinion, just because most people are lemmings.
The idea that we know what swtor is going to succeed or fail at gameplay wise is obsurd because the scraps of information dropped here and there by the devs is not a substitute for playing the actual finnished product. I am very excited personally for dcuo and swtor.
Why? Since you haven't played the actual finished product?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
yes.. you are exactly right about that.. That same mentallity, the fear of leaving the pack, of letting down people you have never actually met in some cases, is the dominating force behind world of warcraft's sustained success over the years. When i left wow to try aion, The group of people I played with that i knew in real life didnt want to leave wow because they were afraid the guild we were in would essentially replace them. They couldn't seperate themselves from the "important" position their character was in. I actually was a little disturbed by that.
I find it highly interesting many people are able to talk with the authority of highly knowledgable developers based on limited knowledge of what the game is actualy going to invlove...
People always do this on forums. If people never discussed what they percieved might be the outcome of something or debate their opinions on matters it would make for a rather dull forum really.
As well as a pretty barren one.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
there is a huge differnce between discussing possibilities, which i am all for, and stateing how game play will be as if you have some actual first hand knowlege. Also, wether or not any game ends wow is tired conversation. wow will exist until blizzard ends it. people will continue to play it because it is what they are used to. even if 80% of the subscribers dropped for some unforseen reason, it would still have a couple million subscribers and be highly profitable. Blizzard knows this, and it shows in their efforts over recent expansions/ patches.
Originally posted by Yunbei Now granted, there are some points to have questions about SWTOR, but what, IMO, is not questionable is, that surely TOR will be a roaring success.
This is quite an assumption.
Personally, from everything I've seen, SWTOR looks like it will be a very average, probably fairly well polished game. Given the level of hype it has now, and the enormous hype it will have by the time it launches, being an average game won't cut it.
As I said above, it looks like an average game. My prediction is that a LOT of people are going to try it, it won't match the hype-level, and the subs will start falling quickly within the first three months. Lots of angst, lots of hatred, lots of foaming at the mouth.
It'll reach an equilibrium, as people leave to go back to their previous game or try a new game, and will settle in with a decent population level for a AAA game (200-300K subs) with players that enjoy it for what it is. The rest of the MMO community will hate it for its mediocrity, or for specific design choices that run counter to their niche demands. Feeling betrayed, they will head into the streets, pitchforks in hand, proclaiming the "epic failure" of yet another game as they seek their vengeance (or something stupid like that).
And that pretty much sums up the majority of my thoughts as well. With the exception of the storyline assoicated with the player's character, everything seems to be a been there done that type of feeling.
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Not sure if they will retain their subscription goal
Absolutely agree
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
I'm not talking about overthrowing WoW with new mmo players and such, that's bogus, I'm talking about the existing players of Star Wars video games, and those that will leave the dark side of the force (SWG) and come to the light. Those players saw the movies, yes, and the series, of course, and read the books, no doubt, and listened to the audio books, I'm sure. In these places you find Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
I admit I find your way with words amusing.
About SWTOR: "I have a bad feeling about this."
You made my day:D
But I hope for the best with SWTOR. I loved both KOTORs, but SWTOR just dont look that good right know..too sad:(
...sorry for double posting...but I was replying to two different things...
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Reading some answers here I kindly asked myself "will players ever learn?" doesn't look like it. I know its fun for the woaholics calling every new game a "wow killer" so if the game doesn't get 1.000k they can claim its a "fail". Having said that I really comes to down to Biowares definition of "success".
Hopefully they won't hire the fat clown also known as "liar Barnett" or mr. awesome himself "Hickman".
I'm sure lots of people will try it out and probably play through the story then realizing theres nothing left to do and head back their "old" game.
Voice over is - as mentioned - nice for the first 20 quests at some point it just annoying. Look at Age of Conan why are so many people pissed with Tortage? Because they had to play it over and over again...always interrupted with these mini conversations at some point its just too much.
Bioware is playing a very dangerous game here. Fully VO also means that people expect the same quality for future updates so they could end up with a very tight timeframe -->long update delay or otherwise less quality.
If they can keep 500k they should be very happy tough I mean, EA, LA wont be so theres a chance for Bioware becoming Mythic #2 which I really really hope doesn't happen.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
WoW, STO, and SWG are going to get hit the hardest by it.
WoW because of the mob mentality (and this is the first MMO developer I believe can actually compete with Blizzard i quality, I can see entire guilds vacating for at least a few months). STO and SWG because they are sci-fi themeparks which are comparitively poor games w/ no real competition (outside of Eve, which is an entirely different type of game).
- Voice driven: Not needed. It only interrupts play and while "fantastic" in its first 20 quests, it becomes a pain. The vast majority of players become uninterested and will find the function hampering their mmo play if used with every NPC interaction.
- Companions: A motivation to solo play. NPC's in the role of players is a death sentence to easy grouping. It was once a nice twist to counter the dull solo leveling in GW. Cryptic said player crew members couldn't be used in ST. Since the new LFG tool form Blizzard we now know it is the tool that defines mulitplayer possibilities in modern MMo's, no longer the unwilling players.
Players need to be motivated to group and the tools need to be easy and automated as much as possible. Companions used as NPC's - will be the a huge trap to grouping.
- Solo instances: you heard that right: solo instances. Your character is isolated from the world around him. Consequences? No whispers, no surroundings: the player is playing an instance solo. On line solo adventure is getting a new meaning.
- Bioware has zero expertise in PvP, on line player combat mechanics or e-sports. In viewing how much resources are being used to have the voice acting and solo story telling, one may wonder how they are going to make up for lack of this much needed expertise in pvp and ... class balance.
- Liniair games will get a new meaning in SW. Those who said Wow was liniair should take a good look at the single lined up story telling found in SW. The story will need to be followed step by step. No escaping. Oh here and there they could add a 2 or 3 choice step, but don't get your hopes too high: you will be guided by the nose - by hopping from solo instance through solo instance - no doubt.
- Even now, Bioware developers says they are" discussing" and "looking into" the use of "professions". That's the typical attitude these days: less than 8 months away from publisment and one of the most important aspects of an on line world is not even fixed in its final stages: the economy. War, AoC, ST didn't have it in place until the very last minute: we' seen the results.
For the above reasons SW on line looks to be a huge much inflated MMO balloon, but I don't see it attain its scheduled 1 million subscriptions after 3 months.
Since the game will be based on PVE content (much related to solo content and specific solo class progression), we will see a game that will struggle to add content on that basis. It simply will be too costly to produce this "solo" progression to satisfy the PVE hunger of players in the long term.
SW will be a flat 2 dimensional play experience: It could be an excellent on line adventure game: a new experience for players seeking an adventure game with an added auction house: a kind of SF themed Dragon Age on line for solo players.
As such it is something new. But enough to warrant 15 dollar subscriptions after 3 months? I doubt it.
Why i'm not surprised that it is "Zorndorf " again fucking up things in other games mmo forums...and ofc advertising that WoW fanboism. Reported....everyone should do the same...---> bug's---->ban way
I'm waiting for the backlash when SWTOR does not live up to the fans expectations. And trust me it won't, they never do when there is this much hype.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I'm waiting for the backlash when SWTOR does not live up to the fans expectations. And trust me it won't, they never do when there is this much hype.
I think most learnt that lesson by now, at least the vet SWG players and other vets from around those times and before. It is pretty thick coming from their marketing crew though, which will probably only give the people that had no plans to play, ammo to rail on the game. In the end, I think it’ll be interesting… fanboy vs. fanboy in every forum on the net hehe endless WoW fanboys vs. SW Fanboys, who will flame the mightiest?
Reminds me of so many other mmo's that have come out and not been good i hope it is good would be a nice change of pace. We dont need any more STO's Tabula rasa' aion's etc never lived up to there hype.
Comments
None.
No game is going to go under simply because another game comes out. You could argue that it may be one factor among many that could lead to a game coming to an end, but it certainly won't be directly related to SWTOR within itself.
Warhammer's days are numbered but it has nothing to do with the eventual launch of SWTOR.
As for AoC, I think that game is around for the long haul although it will never live up to what the game could have been due to Funcom's handling of things during the first six months of that game's life. Even outside of those issues and all the changes they have made it really isn't t impressive compared to other mmos out there least in my opinion. Still, I don't see it going under any time soon either.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Well, if we are going to compare numbers - how many KOTOR era movies have there been? How many boxes have the SW era games sold in total - compared to KOTOR era?
Just saying - I am a fan of (four of) the movies, and have no interest in KOTOR at all. I don't think that is a rare opinion.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
People just come and go.
SWTOR is getting a bid overhyped now.. and we all know what happened last few years with all those overhyped games...
There will be a lot of people playing at release, and after a month of 2 , lots of them will just return to their old game.
It has always been that way, and it always will.
So will other mmo's see this in their sub numbers? mh, well maby a little, and after a while everything will get back to normal.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
waiting for ... nothing..
Movies?!?
I'm not talking about overthrowing WoW with new mmo players and such, that's bogus, I'm talking about the existing players of Star Wars video games, and those that will leave the dark side of the force (SWG) and come to the light. Those players saw the movies, yes, and the series, of course, and read the books, no doubt, and listened to the audio books, I'm sure. In these places you find Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
I admit I find your way with words amusing.
About SWTOR: "I have a bad feeling about this."
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I'm not saying it's going to be good, that is something to be seen, but it doesn't have to try hard to beat down SWG at this point, take it's existing subs and reclaim the many subs that SWG has lost. It's got the strongest Star Wars game ip behind it, and Bioware is certainly a lot more popular than SOE these days, and for very good reasons; SOE's reasons.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
I find it highly interesting many people are able to talk with the authority of highly knowledgable developers based on limited knowledge of what the game is actualy going to invlove. i have read every piece of information released, watched every video, and enjoyed all the speculation/rumor talk. I have played wow, aion,aoc,and coh. One thing is true, they can all coexisit, and will continue to because the game content is more or less the same in all of them. What keeps people playing them is simply how invested they become in their individual characters. People stay with wow, not because it is this highly original captivateing experience, but because they have established a large portion of their social life ( if not all of it) into the character they have built. The idea that we know what swtor is going to succeed or fail at gameplay wise is obsurd because the scraps of information dropped here and there by the devs is not a substitute for playing the actual finnished product. I am very excited personally for dcuo and swtor. I love that we can gather and discuss our excitement and hopes for the game. I dont begrudge others their desire to stay with wow or something else. Lets stop acting like we know something we dont. Go enjoy your game, and allow us to look forward to what could be ours.
I agree to a point though I feel it is more about friends built over time than it is any particular attachment to characters. Some people maybe, but I think the majority will play whatever their friends are playing. Will a lot of people buy SWTOR? Sure, but time will tell if they stay or not. It will all depend on the 'Alpha' males. If the Alphas embrace the game then their friends will stick around. If they trash the game their friends will most likely leave too, no matter their personal opinion, just because most people are lemmings.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
yes.. you are exactly right about that.. That same mentallity, the fear of leaving the pack, of letting down people you have never actually met in some cases, is the dominating force behind world of warcraft's sustained success over the years. When i left wow to try aion, The group of people I played with that i knew in real life didnt want to leave wow because they were afraid the guild we were in would essentially replace them. They couldn't seperate themselves from the "important" position their character was in. I actually was a little disturbed by that.
People always do this on forums. If people never discussed what they percieved might be the outcome of something or debate their opinions on matters it would make for a rather dull forum really.
As well as a pretty barren one.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
i am excited because of the unkown possibilities the game could have. That is the definition of anticipation.
Interesting question. I wonder how many smaller MMOs will fall prey to Aion, or WAR, or AoC?
there is a huge differnce between discussing possibilities, which i am all for, and stateing how game play will be as if you have some actual first hand knowlege. Also, wether or not any game ends wow is tired conversation. wow will exist until blizzard ends it. people will continue to play it because it is what they are used to. even if 80% of the subscribers dropped for some unforseen reason, it would still have a couple million subscribers and be highly profitable. Blizzard knows this, and it shows in their efforts over recent expansions/ patches.
This is quite an assumption.
Personally, from everything I've seen, SWTOR looks like it will be a very average, probably fairly well polished game. Given the level of hype it has now, and the enormous hype it will have by the time it launches, being an average game won't cut it.
As I said above, it looks like an average game. My prediction is that a LOT of people are going to try it, it won't match the hype-level, and the subs will start falling quickly within the first three months. Lots of angst, lots of hatred, lots of foaming at the mouth.
It'll reach an equilibrium, as people leave to go back to their previous game or try a new game, and will settle in with a decent population level for a AAA game (200-300K subs) with players that enjoy it for what it is. The rest of the MMO community will hate it for its mediocrity, or for specific design choices that run counter to their niche demands. Feeling betrayed, they will head into the streets, pitchforks in hand, proclaiming the "epic failure" of yet another game as they seek their vengeance (or something stupid like that).
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Absolutely agree
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
You made my day:D
But I hope for the best with SWTOR. I loved both KOTORs, but SWTOR just dont look that good right know..too sad:(
...sorry for double posting...but I was replying to two different things...
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Reading some answers here I kindly asked myself "will players ever learn?" doesn't look like it. I know its fun for the woaholics calling every new game a "wow killer" so if the game doesn't get 1.000k they can claim its a "fail". Having said that I really comes to down to Biowares definition of "success".
Hopefully they won't hire the fat clown also known as "liar Barnett" or mr. awesome himself "Hickman".
I'm sure lots of people will try it out and probably play through the story then realizing theres nothing left to do and head back their "old" game.
Voice over is - as mentioned - nice for the first 20 quests at some point it just annoying. Look at Age of Conan why are so many people pissed with Tortage? Because they had to play it over and over again...always interrupted with these mini conversations at some point its just too much.
Bioware is playing a very dangerous game here. Fully VO also means that people expect the same quality for future updates so they could end up with a very tight timeframe -->long update delay or otherwise less quality.
If they can keep 500k they should be very happy tough I mean, EA, LA wont be so theres a chance for Bioware becoming Mythic #2 which I really really hope doesn't happen.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
It'll probably make a dent on the subscriber. But I doubt it'll affect that much.
People play the small indie MMO for a reason. If they pick those MMO now over other big titles, they probably won't go for SWTOR.
And there's a bunch of new title coming up, Tera, and FF. So it's not just SWTOR.
WoW, STO, and SWG are going to get hit the hardest by it.
WoW because of the mob mentality (and this is the first MMO developer I believe can actually compete with Blizzard i quality, I can see entire guilds vacating for at least a few months). STO and SWG because they are sci-fi themeparks which are comparitively poor games w/ no real competition (outside of Eve, which is an entirely different type of game).
Why i'm not surprised that it is "Zorndorf " again fucking up things in other games mmo forums...and ofc advertising that WoW fanboism. Reported....everyone should do the same...---> bug's---->ban way
Not many at all because there will always be people who do not run with the masses to play the next best thing.
I'm waiting for the backlash when SWTOR does not live up to the fans expectations. And trust me it won't, they never do when there is this much hype.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I think most learnt that lesson by now, at least the vet SWG players and other vets from around those times and before. It is pretty thick coming from their marketing crew though, which will probably only give the people that had no plans to play, ammo to rail on the game. In the end, I think it’ll be interesting… fanboy vs. fanboy in every forum on the net hehe endless WoW fanboys vs. SW Fanboys, who will flame the mightiest?
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
Reminds me of so many other mmo's that have come out and not been good i hope it is good would be a nice change of pace. We dont need any more STO's Tabula rasa' aion's etc never lived up to there hype.