I dont like the skill training. Its too passive. EVE made me realise that I do find character progression in a game more important then I thought I did. Apparently I expect actions to have consequenses for my character and I dont mean just the amount of ISK I have.
Too bad though, I really liked the spaceships, fleetcombat and also exploring. Exploring made me feel like a treasure hunter.
I can understand why EVE gets boring for people who only PVE and therefore stay in high sec. Imo EVE really shines in fleet PVP battles.
I don't understand are you saying Eve has no progression? You consider grinding skills manually progression? What about setting goals and achieveing them?
As an example if my goal is to colonize a wormhole, Skills and isk are apart of it but also social skills, You need a corp willing to meet that common goal.
I personally would rather my "progression" or personal goal be more realistic than just shooting a lazer to gain a extra lazer point on my skill tree lol.
Just look at a game like Darkfall, you call logging into a Ork, and slicing a thousand NPCs for sword skill progression?
I dont like the skill training. Its too passive. EVE made me realise that I do find character progression in a game more important then I thought I did. Apparently I expect actions to have consequenses for my character and I dont mean just the amount of ISK I have.
Too bad though, I really liked the spaceships, fleetcombat and also exploring. Exploring made me feel like a treasure hunter.
I can understand why EVE gets boring for people who only PVE and therefore stay in high sec. Imo EVE really shines in fleet PVP battles.
I don't understand are you saying Eve has no progression? You consider grinding skills manually progression? What about setting goals and achieveing them?
As an example if my goal is to colonize a wormhole, Skills and isk are apart of it but also social skills, You need a corp willing to meet that common goal.
I personally would rather my "progression" or personal goal be more realistic than just shooting a lazer to gain a extra lazer point on my skill tree lol.
Just look at a game like Darkfall, you call logging into a Ork, and slicing a thousand NPCs for sword skill progression?
Actually, yes, most people do believe that's progression. And, a lot think it's better because it's obtained in an active way, by playing the game - not log in, set skill in training queue, log out.
I understand a lot of people's misgivings with EvE's progression, which is passive, and something you cannot influence much by working harder.
Like everything else, it's all personal preference or taste. No one is wrong for liking, or not liking, any game. I just try not to freak out when someone doesn't like something I enjoy.
I'm the same as the OP. I played maybe 3-4 months a couple of years ago and went back a few days ago on a trial account to see what's changed.
It's fun to start off but I to just found myself getting bored the exact same way the OP described. The game just feels very limited for a game thats supposedly a sandbox. It's really good on paper but the actual game just lacks something to keep things moving or keep me interested.
With an MMORPG like wow for example. I can log on and within minutes be involved in a large pvp battle, or sneak into an enemy city and pick people off, join a pve raid, or I can do some trading or go gathering resources for the guild vault etc. I don't have to spend months preparing for 10 minutes of action.
Huh?
I'm a casual player in Eve.
I log in run a mission, probe out Combat/Hacking/Arch sites, maybe mess with a Class 1-3 wormhole, Trade a bit, I can mine if i want, play with PI, go solo roam, fleet up with buddies and roam, mess with RvB, FW.
All of this can be trained into in less time that it would take a wow player to hit level 30.
Eve is like the ultimate casual game, I have tons of options at my finger tips.
I've said this before and ill say it again. Eve gives a player options to play as casual or as hardcore, as risky as one wishes. With an amazing amount of gameplay features within one game Eve can be many things to many different people.
Eve isnt the thing thats lacking, its you and your ability to set goals for yourself. You could have all the options I have with a little pre-planning but no... You logged into Eve and expected everything to be laid out for you, with no effort on your part.
So how exactly does a new player know all this going in, because the game doesn't spell this out for you, even in the tutorial. To most players, they have no problem doing a task if there is a point associated with that task.
Eve players talk about effort. Give me a reason to put forth that effort and maybe I'll consider it. Entertain me from the outset because 1st impressions with any game is vital to keep my interest. I have no problem setting goals if I know the reason why those goals are being set.
I dont like the skill training. Its too passive. EVE made me realise that I do find character progression in a game more important then I thought I did. Apparently I expect actions to have consequenses for my character and I dont mean just the amount of ISK I have.
Too bad though, I really liked the spaceships, fleetcombat and also exploring. Exploring made me feel like a treasure hunter.
I can understand why EVE gets boring for people who only PVE and therefore stay in high sec. Imo EVE really shines in fleet PVP battles.
I don't understand are you saying Eve has no progression? You consider grinding skills manually progression? What about setting goals and achieveing them?
As an example if my goal is to colonize a wormhole, Skills and isk are apart of it but also social skills, You need a corp willing to meet that common goal.
I personally would rather my "progression" or personal goal be more realistic than just shooting a lazer to gain a extra lazer point on my skill tree lol.
Just look at a game like Darkfall, you call logging into a Ork, and slicing a thousand NPCs for sword skill progression?
Actually, yes, most people do believe that's progression. And, a lot think it's better because it's obtained in an active way, by playing the game - not log in, set skill in training queue, log out.
I understand a lot of people's misgivings with EvE's progression, which is passive, and something you cannot influence much by working harder.
Like everything else, it's all personal preference or taste. No one is wrong for liking, or not liking, any game. I just try not to freak out when someone doesn't like something I enjoy.
Other than setting my skill all of my progression has been active. Even more active than DF since the game is 100% skill raising and nothing else.
Your hard work comment is bullshit, Its taken me much more work to achieve my goals in Eve than simply hitting a npc with a sword.
I'm the same as the OP. I played maybe 3-4 months a couple of years ago and went back a few days ago on a trial account to see what's changed.
It's fun to start off but I to just found myself getting bored the exact same way the OP described. The game just feels very limited for a game thats supposedly a sandbox. It's really good on paper but the actual game just lacks something to keep things moving or keep me interested.
With an MMORPG like wow for example. I can log on and within minutes be involved in a large pvp battle, or sneak into an enemy city and pick people off, join a pve raid, or I can do some trading or go gathering resources for the guild vault etc. I don't have to spend months preparing for 10 minutes of action.
Huh?
I'm a casual player in Eve.
I log in run a mission, probe out Combat/Hacking/Arch sites, maybe mess with a Class 1-3 wormhole, Trade a bit, I can mine if i want, play with PI, go solo roam, fleet up with buddies and roam, mess with RvB, FW.
All of this can be trained into in less time that it would take a wow player to hit level 30.
Eve is like the ultimate casual game, I have tons of options at my finger tips.
I've said this before and ill say it again. Eve gives a player options to play as casual or as hardcore, as risky as one wishes. With an amazing amount of gameplay features within one game Eve can be many things to many different people.
Eve isnt the thing thats lacking, its you and your ability to set goals for yourself. You could have all the options I have with a little pre-planning but no... You logged into Eve and expected everything to be laid out for you, with no effort on your part.
So how exactly does a new player know all this going in, because the game doesn't spell this out for you, even in the tutorial. To most players, they have no problem doing a task if there is a point associated with that task.
Eve players talk about effort. Give me a reason to put forth that effort and maybe I'll consider it. Entertain me from the outset because 1st impressions with any game is vital to keep my interest. I have no problem setting goals if I know the reason why those goals are being set.
Everything the poster you quoted brought up is covered in the tutorial and help menu. Read the info your given and discover the benefits.
I dont like the skill training. Its too passive. EVE made me realise that I do find character progression in a game more important then I thought I did. Apparently I expect actions to have consequenses for my character and I dont mean just the amount of ISK I have.
Too bad though, I really liked the spaceships, fleetcombat and also exploring. Exploring made me feel like a treasure hunter.
I can understand why EVE gets boring for people who only PVE and therefore stay in high sec. Imo EVE really shines in fleet PVP battles.
I don't understand are you saying Eve has no progression? You consider grinding skills manually progression? What about setting goals and achieveing them?
As an example if my goal is to colonize a wormhole, Skills and isk are apart of it but also social skills, You need a corp willing to meet that common goal.
I personally would rather my "progression" or personal goal be more realistic than just shooting a lazer to gain a extra lazer point on my skill tree lol.
Just look at a game like Darkfall, you call logging into a Ork, and slicing a thousand NPCs for sword skill progression?
Actually, yes, most people do believe that's progression. And, a lot think it's better because it's obtained in an active way, by playing the game - not log in, set skill in training queue, log out.
I understand a lot of people's misgivings with EvE's progression, which is passive, and something you cannot influence much by working harder.
Like everything else, it's all personal preference or taste. No one is wrong for liking, or not liking, any game. I just try not to freak out when someone doesn't like something I enjoy.
Other than setting my skill all of my progression has been active. Even more active than DF since the game is 100% skill raising and nothing else.
Your hard work comment is bullshit, Its taken me much more work to achieve my goals in Eve than simply hitting a npc with a sword.
My comments regarded skill progression, in which you agree - skill progression in EvE is passive, and the player has little in-game influence over it.
Of course, there are many types of overall character "progression", which all games have to one degree or another, even the ones you discount. That centers completely around the taste of each player, and what each player likes to do in any given game.
Oh, by the way, I personally think EvE is a great game, and I enjoy playing it. It's not incomprehensible to me, however, that some people don't.
My comments regarded skill progression, in which you agree - skill progression in EvE is passive, and the player has little in-game influence over it.
Of course, there are many types of overall character "progression", which all games have to one degree or another, even the ones you discount. That centers completely around the taste of each player, and what each player likes to do in any given game.
Oh, by the way, I personally think EvE is a great game, and I enjoy playing it. It's not incomprehensible to me, however, that some people don't.
Skills are such a small part of a players overall progression that to discredit eve strictly on a passive system (that still requires a ton of pre-planning) is damn near criminal.
The people that play Eve would rather play the game instead of grind repetitive skills over and over.
Honestly what would you rather do? Be forced to shoot your lasers at Npcs for hours for a rank up or turn on a skill and play eve however the hell you want while waiting for said skill?
I know which way im going, logging in just to work on character skills died with UO and its been proven to flood a game with macro bots for easy mode skill raises in other games.
Eves skill progression is the future.
Check out Perpetuum and Earthrise both use something similar and both are amazing.
I just had to say that in EVE it would take a good week or two to get good enough in a single skillset to do any of those things you mentioned (keeping the basic ship skills in mind), doing all of it would take months. I could get to level 30 in WoW in probably 2 days of hardcore play.
I see where you are coming from, but exaggeration kills debates.
30 in two days? well I like sunlight, my wife/kids and have a job to go to.
30 took me (pre-nerf) about two weeks.
You can do virtually everything except Class 3 Whs in that time.
Mining can be done in a cheap cruiser, trading with a t1 indy, Scanning skills take no time and can be done in a t1 frig. hacking and arch are very easy to train into. A good cruiser/BC can easily do most Sleepers in Class 1 and maybe 2s if the player is smart.
FW and RVB require next to no training, solo pvp can be done easily in a rifter/thrasher (2-3 days training), small gang pvp can be done in less than 24 hours.
Together maybe three weeks? thats a lot of shit for only three weeks pre-planning lol.
A bit of an exageration but not that bad, all im saying is Eve has a good deal to offer a player also things like raiding and world pvp cant be done on day one either in WoW so my exageration doesnt matter.
30 in 2 days is easily doable if you know what your doing, you can hit 20 in only a few hours. But in wow you can level purely from pvp if you like (and quite quickly if you win a lot). Instead of doing quests or instances.
In Eve you can't just pvp all the time because the death pennalty is so high, if you jumped in to the game and tried after gaining some desent skills you will just loose everything and run in to a brick wall. It kinda puts a limit on what you can do which I don't like
I just had to say that in EVE it would take a good week or two to get good enough in a single skillset to do any of those things you mentioned (keeping the basic ship skills in mind), doing all of it would take months. I could get to level 30 in WoW in probably 2 days of hardcore play.
I see where you are coming from, but exaggeration kills debates.
30 in two days? well I like sunlight, my wife/kids and have a job to go to.
30 took me (pre-nerf) about two weeks.
You can do virtually everything except Class 3 Whs in that time.
Mining can be done in a cheap cruiser, trading with a t1 indy, Scanning skills take no time and can be done in a t1 frig. hacking and arch are very easy to train into. A good cruiser/BC can easily do most Sleepers in Class 1 and maybe 2s if the player is smart.
FW and RVB require next to no training, solo pvp can be done easily in a rifter/thrasher (2-3 days training), small gang pvp can be done in less than 24 hours.
Together maybe three weeks? thats a lot of shit for only three weeks pre-planning lol.
A bit of an exageration but not that bad, all im saying is Eve has a good deal to offer a player also things like raiding and world pvp cant be done on day one either in WoW so my exageration doesnt matter.
30 in 2 days is easily doable if you know what your doing, you can hit 20 in only a few hours. But in wow you can level purely from pvp if you like (and quite quickly if you win a lot). Instead of doing quests or instances.
In Eve you can't just pvp all the time because the death pennalty is so high, if you jumped in to the game and tried after gaining some desent skills you will just loose everything and run in to a brick wall. It kinda puts a limit on what you can do which I don't like
You can pvp all the time. Use them there social skills your mamma gave you.
Find a corp with a ship replacement program. The good corps easily replace frigs and cruisers and train newbs.
No wonder you guys don't last in Eve, you can't think outside the box. To you guys Eve is nothing but Isk and skills.
Just a note, WOW sucks at low levels. Your stuck pvping in 1 or 2 bgs damn near the entire time and leveling strictly on pvp alone takes forever. Also I think you guys need to go outside more, 30 in two days? Instead of need rolling on those epics you guys might wanna need roll on some sex and a freaking job LOL!!!!
No wonder you guys don't last in Eve, you can't think outside the box. To you guys Eve is nothing but Isk and skills.
I have long lost count of the number of times I have had to try and explain this. It's pretty difficult to get some people to look up from their character sheet and realise that there's a game out there that involves more than making numbers on the sheet go up.
No wonder you guys don't last in Eve, you can't think outside the box. To you guys Eve is nothing but Isk and skills.
I have long lost count of the number of times I have had to try and explain this. It's pretty difficult to get some people to look up from their character sheet and realise that there's a game out there that involves more than making numbers on the sheet go up.
It's like this because the genre has been designed to have a visable way on how your player is progressing. In most games it's readily apparent to see how your character is improving. In Eve, it's not so apparent. It's there, but you first need to understand how the game works to understand how you're improving your character. I've got not problem with the way Eve is designed, but the elitism of how some of these players (some in this thread) turn people off to the game in general. To have this attitude of 'it takes effort, you're being lazy otherwise' is ridiculous. It's a game, I'm playing it to be entertained. If I like what I see initially, I'll put forth some effort. As a game you have to win me over, not the other way around.
No wonder you guys don't last in Eve, you can't think outside the box. To you guys Eve is nothing but Isk and skills.
I have long lost count of the number of times I have had to try and explain this. It's pretty difficult to get some people to look up from their character sheet and realise that there's a game out there that involves more than making numbers on the sheet go up.
It's like this because the genre has been designed to have a visable way on how your player is progressing. In most games it's readily apparent to see how your character is improving. In Eve, it's not so apparent. It's there, but you first need to understand how the game works to understand how you're improving your character. I've got not problem with the way Eve is designed, but the elitism of how some of these players (some in this thread) turn people off to the game in general. To have this attitude of 'it takes effort, you're being lazy otherwise' is ridiculous. It's a game, I'm playing it to be entertained. If I like what I see initially, I'll put forth some effort. As a game you have to win me over, not the other way around.
Eve certainly isnt a instant gradification kind of game. Eve is a deeply satisfying experience over the long haul. You won't find yourself getting bored of Eve like you would in three-six months in other mmos. While other mmos start to die down in that time due to repetitive endgame. Eve truly ramps up as you make more social ties and Have a clear set goal or goals.
I'll admit Eve doesn't do the best job of grabing hold of the more reward focused gamer (which is most players)initially. The skill system is passive and requires quite a bit of pre-planning (this could be frustrating). Eve tosses a ton of options at a player that need to be researched both in and out of game to fully understand.
These aren't flaws of the game, Eve is designed this way on purpose. The Devs know what kind of game they wanted and know the niche it fills. Im sure if they wanted you as a customer they would of tossed rewards at you on log in, they would create pvp battlegrounds with no risk and design pve with dungeons and the like.
This game is for us not you. We want to plan progress for years, we want to play in an immersive believeable universe filled with high risk even if there is no reward and when there is reward there's a good chance it can be taken away through the most honorable or dishonorable means.
Wars are fought, isk is made and lost. long term plans are set in place and dashed in an instant. People think outside the box here. We arent limited by some level, this game lets us go above and beyond anything we've ever imagined in a mmo. The price we pay for this is the game having a slow start (for some).
This game is designed for us, you have a hundred freaking games that will entertain you for a couple weeks only to fall flat, we want a much more meaningful experience, over years.
As a game you have to win me over, not the other way around.
Here let me put you're feet up for you, would you like something to drink too? When you wake up we'll take you over to Blizzard, It's just down the street...... Happy now?
It's like this because the genre has been designed to have a visable way on how your player is progressing. In most games it's readily apparent to see how your character is improving. In Eve, it's not so apparent. It's there, but you first need to understand how the game works to understand how you're improving your character. I've got not problem with the way Eve is designed, but the elitism of how some of these players (some in this thread) turn people off to the game in general. To have this attitude of 'it takes effort, you're being lazy otherwise' is ridiculous. It's a game, I'm playing it to be entertained. If I like what I see initially, I'll put forth some effort. As a game you have to win me over, not the other way around.
Eve certainly isnt a instant gradification kind of game. Eve is a deeply satisfying experience over the long haul. You won't find yourself getting bored of Eve like you would in three-six months in other mmos. While other mmos start to die down in that time due to repetitive endgame. Eve truly ramps up as you make more social ties and Have a clear set goal or goals.
I'll admit Eve doesn't do the best job of grabing hold of the more reward focused gamer (which is most players)initially. The skill system is passive and requires quite a bit of pre-planning (this could be frustrating). Eve tosses a ton of options at a player that need to be researched both in and out of game to fully understand.
These aren't flaws of the game, Eve is designed this way on purpose. The Devs know what kind of game they wanted and know the niche it fills. Im sure if they wanted you as a customer they would of tossed rewards at you on log in, they would create pvp battlegrounds with no risk and design pve with dungeons and the like.
This game is for us not you. We want to plan progress for years, we want to play in an immersive believeable universe filled with high risk even if there is no reward and when there is reward there's a good chance it can be taken away through the most honorable or dishonorable means.
Wars are fought, isk is made and lost. long term plans are set in place and dashed in an instant. People think outside the box here. We arent limited by some level, this game lets us go above and beyond anything we've ever imagined in a mmo. The price we pay for this is the game having a slow start (for some).
This game is designed for us, you have a hundred freaking games that will entertain you for a couple weeks only to fall flat, we want a much more meaningful experience, over years.
No wonder you guys don't last in Eve, you can't think outside the box. To you guys Eve is nothing but Isk and skills.
I have long lost count of the number of times I have had to try and explain this. It's pretty difficult to get some people to look up from their character sheet and realise that there's a game out there that involves more than making numbers on the sheet go up.
It's like this because the genre has been designed to have a visable way on how your player is progressing. In most games it's readily apparent to see how your character is improving. In Eve, it's not so apparent. It's there, but you first need to understand how the game works to understand how you're improving your character. I've got not problem with the way Eve is designed, but the elitism of how some of these players (some in this thread) turn people off to the game in general. To have this attitude of 'it takes effort, you're being lazy otherwise' is ridiculous. It's a game, I'm playing it to be entertained. If I like what I see initially, I'll put forth some effort. As a game you have to win me over, not the other way around.
Eve certainly isnt a instant gradification kind of game. Eve is a deeply satisfying experience over the long haul. You won't find yourself getting bored of Eve like you would in three-six months in other mmos. While other mmos start to die down in that time due to repetitive endgame. Eve truly ramps up as you make more social ties and Have a clear set goal or goals.
I'll admit Eve doesn't do the best job of grabing hold of the more reward focused gamer (which is most players)initially. The skill system is passive and requires quite a bit of pre-planning (this could be frustrating). Eve tosses a ton of options at a player that need to be researched both in and out of game to fully understand.
These aren't flaws of the game, Eve is designed this way on purpose. The Devs know what kind of game they wanted and know the niche it fills. Im sure if they wanted you as a customer they would of tossed rewards at you on log in, they would create pvp battlegrounds with no risk and design pve with dungeons and the like.
This game is for us not you. We want to plan progress for years, we want to play in an immersive believeable universe filled with high risk even if there is no reward and when there is reward there's a good chance it can be taken away through the most honorable or dishonorable means.
Wars are fought, isk is made and lost. long term plans are set in place and dashed in an instant. People think outside the box here. We arent limited by some level, this game lets us go above and beyond anything we've ever imagined in a mmo. The price we pay for this is the game having a slow start (for some).
This game is designed for us, you have a hundred freaking games that will entertain you for a couple weeks only to fall flat, we want a much more meaningful experience, over years.
Good luck in your next game.
That's all fine. You're right, the game isn't for me and a whole lot of other folks. What I think is unfortunate is there are a substantial number of people that want to like the game, continue to try the game out and continue to run into a brick wall due to everything that's been discussed in this thread. It's been mentioned previously, by Eve players that there are tons of things the game could improve to get more subs without bastardizing it's core gameplay.
Isn't that the whole point of this thread, to understand why someone wanted to like the game but couldn't/didn't because of XY and Z? I don't understand why you took offense with my post, I said I didn't have a problem with Eve itself, just with the 'GTFO' attitude of some of it's players.
No wonder you guys don't last in Eve, you can't think outside the box. To you guys Eve is nothing but Isk and skills.
I have long lost count of the number of times I have had to try and explain this. It's pretty difficult to get some people to look up from their character sheet and realise that there's a game out there that involves more than making numbers on the sheet go up.
It's like this because the genre has been designed to have a visable way on how your player is progressing. In most games it's readily apparent to see how your character is improving. In Eve, it's not so apparent. It's there, but you first need to understand how the game works to understand how you're improving your character. I've got not problem with the way Eve is designed, but the elitism of how some of these players (some in this thread) turn people off to the game in general. To have this attitude of 'it takes effort, you're being lazy otherwise' is ridiculous. It's a game, I'm playing it to be entertained. If I like what I see initially, I'll put forth some effort. As a game you have to win me over, not the other way around.
Eve certainly isnt a instant gradification kind of game. Eve is a deeply satisfying experience over the long haul. You won't find yourself getting bored of Eve like you would in three-six months in other mmos. While other mmos start to die down in that time due to repetitive endgame. Eve truly ramps up as you make more social ties and Have a clear set goal or goals.
I'll admit Eve doesn't do the best job of grabing hold of the more reward focused gamer (which is most players)initially. The skill system is passive and requires quite a bit of pre-planning (this could be frustrating). Eve tosses a ton of options at a player that need to be researched both in and out of game to fully understand.
These aren't flaws of the game, Eve is designed this way on purpose. The Devs know what kind of game they wanted and know the niche it fills. Im sure if they wanted you as a customer they would of tossed rewards at you on log in, they would create pvp battlegrounds with no risk and design pve with dungeons and the like.
This game is for us not you. We want to plan progress for years, we want to play in an immersive believeable universe filled with high risk even if there is no reward and when there is reward there's a good chance it can be taken away through the most honorable or dishonorable means.
Wars are fought, isk is made and lost. long term plans are set in place and dashed in an instant. People think outside the box here. We arent limited by some level, this game lets us go above and beyond anything we've ever imagined in a mmo. The price we pay for this is the game having a slow start (for some).
This game is designed for us, you have a hundred freaking games that will entertain you for a couple weeks only to fall flat, we want a much more meaningful experience, over years.
Good luck in your next game.
That's all fine. You're right, the game isn't for me and a whole lot of other folks. What I think is unfortunate is there are a substantial number of people that want to like the game, continue to try the game out and continue to run into a brick wall due to everything that's been discussed in this thread. It's been mentioned previously, by Eve players that there are tons of things the game could improve to get more subs without bastardizing it's core gameplay.
Isn't that the whole point of this thread, to understand why someone wanted to like the game but couldn't/didn't because of XY and Z? I don't understand why you took offense with my post, I said I didn't have a problem with Eve itself, just with the 'GTFO' attitude of some of it's players.
You seem to over look the obvious. The game is for a whole lot of other folks, and is doing just fine with them. Isn't it possible that to change a successful model to please players that don't like the game would be a mistake?
No wonder you guys don't last in Eve, you can't think outside the box. To you guys Eve is nothing but Isk and skills.
I have long lost count of the number of times I have had to try and explain this. It's pretty difficult to get some people to look up from their character sheet and realise that there's a game out there that involves more than making numbers on the sheet go up.
It's like this because the genre has been designed to have a visable way on how your player is progressing. In most games it's readily apparent to see how your character is improving. In Eve, it's not so apparent. It's there, but you first need to understand how the game works to understand how you're improving your character. I've got not problem with the way Eve is designed, but the elitism of how some of these players (some in this thread) turn people off to the game in general. To have this attitude of 'it takes effort, you're being lazy otherwise' is ridiculous. It's a game, I'm playing it to be entertained. If I like what I see initially, I'll put forth some effort. As a game you have to win me over, not the other way around.
Eve certainly isnt a instant gradification kind of game. Eve is a deeply satisfying experience over the long haul. You won't find yourself getting bored of Eve like you would in three-six months in other mmos. While other mmos start to die down in that time due to repetitive endgame. Eve truly ramps up as you make more social ties and Have a clear set goal or goals.
I'll admit Eve doesn't do the best job of grabing hold of the more reward focused gamer (which is most players)initially. The skill system is passive and requires quite a bit of pre-planning (this could be frustrating). Eve tosses a ton of options at a player that need to be researched both in and out of game to fully understand.
These aren't flaws of the game, Eve is designed this way on purpose. The Devs know what kind of game they wanted and know the niche it fills. Im sure if they wanted you as a customer they would of tossed rewards at you on log in, they would create pvp battlegrounds with no risk and design pve with dungeons and the like.
This game is for us not you. We want to plan progress for years, we want to play in an immersive believeable universe filled with high risk even if there is no reward and when there is reward there's a good chance it can be taken away through the most honorable or dishonorable means.
Wars are fought, isk is made and lost. long term plans are set in place and dashed in an instant. People think outside the box here. We arent limited by some level, this game lets us go above and beyond anything we've ever imagined in a mmo. The price we pay for this is the game having a slow start (for some).
This game is designed for us, you have a hundred freaking games that will entertain you for a couple weeks only to fall flat, we want a much more meaningful experience, over years.
Good luck in your next game.
That's all fine. You're right, the game isn't for me and a whole lot of other folks. What I think is unfortunate is there are a substantial number of people that want to like the game, continue to try the game out and continue to run into a brick wall due to everything that's been discussed in this thread. It's been mentioned previously, by Eve players that there are tons of things the game could improve to get more subs without bastardizing it's core gameplay.
Isn't that the whole point of this thread, to understand why someone wanted to like the game but couldn't/didn't because of XY and Z? I don't understand why you took offense with my post, I said I didn't have a problem with Eve itself, just with the 'GTFO' attitude of some of it's players.
You seem to over look the obvious. The game is for a whole lot of other folks, and is doing just fine with them. Isn't it possible that to change a successful model to please players that don't like the game would be a mistake?
Who's talking about changing it to a 'successful' model? How about just changing the new player experience, expanding on the tutorials? How about adding more customization to ships so players can identify more with what their flying? How about explain things like skills a little bit better, perhaps even incorporate something like EveFit into the game.
I understand Eve is 'for other folks', that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.
Who's talking about changing it to a 'successful' model? How about just changing the new player experience, expanding on the tutorials? How about adding more customization to ships so players can identify more with what their flying? How about explain things like skills a little bit better, perhaps even incorporate something like EveFit into the game.
I understand Eve is 'for other folks', that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.
Therein lies the problem with attempting to discuss Eve's faults, on the one hand some people in these forums cannot comprehend that it DOES have faults, whilst others cannot comprehend the possibility that changes COULD be made to Eve to not only retain the core gameplay to suit its existing playerbase, but also incorporate additional elements which could potentially attract a bigger playerbase. And the reason? Fear of the unknown.
There is an irrational fear that ANY additional refinement that potentially ellaborates on Eves shallow points could be devastating to the game as a whole.
Which is complete and utter bollox and has no foundation or justification. There is no reason whatsoever that Eve couldn't retain its current core gameplay whilst offering more than it does now. All it takes is a little imagination and product management. For a space based MMO, Eve has a good foundation. But, it fails to offer some elements that people expect or need. Unfortunately some lovers of Eve just cannot accept the fact that Eve isn't the perfect MMO for all playstyles that THEY think it is.
Sure Eve found a nice little niche for itself where it is the only player in town, but it doesn't have to stop there. It could expand. Let's also not forget that the space based MMO niche is changing. Eve is not the only player any more. And the new players in town have the potential to not only match what Eve offers, but also add elements which Eve couldn't offer itself.
The next 12 - 24 months will be interesting for the space based MMO genre as a whole.
Eve needs to Eve-olve or perhaps suffer the consequences of not doing so.
Who's talking about changing it to a 'successful' model? How about just changing the new player experience, expanding on the tutorials? How about adding more customization to ships so players can identify more with what their flying? How about explain things like skills a little bit better, perhaps even incorporate something like EveFit into the game.
I understand Eve is 'for other folks', that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.
Therein lies the problem with attempting to discuss Eve's faults, on the one hand some people in these forums cannot comprehend that it DOES have faults, whilst others cannot comprehend the possibility that changes COULD be made to Eve to not only retain the core gameplay to suit its existing playerbase, but also incorporate additional elements which could potentially attract a bigger playerbase. And the reason? Fear of the unknown.
There is an irrational fear that ANY additional refinement that potentially ellaborates on Eves shallow points could be devastating to the game as a whole.
Which is complete and utter bollox and has no foundation or justification. There is no reason whatsoever that Eve couldn't retain its current core gameplay whilst offering more than it does now. All it takes is a little imagination and product management. For a space based MMO, Eve has a good foundation. But, it fails to offer some elements that people expect or need. Unfortunately some lovers of Eve just cannot accept the fact that Eve isn't the perfect MMO for all playstyles that THEY think it is.
Sure Eve found a nice little niche for itself where it is the only player in town, but it doesn't have to stop there. It could expand. Let's also not forget that the space based MMO niche is changing. Eve is not the only player any more. And the new players in town have the potential to not only match what Eve offers, but also add elements which Eve couldn't offer itself.
The next 12 - 24 months will be interesting for the space based MMO genre as a whole.
Eve needs to Eve-olve or perhaps suffer the consequences of not doing so.
Credit to you. Rarely seen such good post
As you said the mmo has to evolve or die trying it, as the same goes for players they should evolve or die trying it!
PS : Nearly all people who i know and which are playing eve-on told me that is "hard" to get into eve without any help from inside. They aswell admitted that nearly all of them get to the game through a friend etc which were like "mentors" and tought them the basics and even further. If you try to get into eve-on solo there is a high chance that you wouldnt stick to it.
As you said the mmo has to evolve or die trying it, as the same goes for players they should evolve or die trying it!
PS : Nearly all people who i know and which are playing eve-on told me that is "hard" to get into eve without any help from inside. They aswell admitted that nearly all of them get to the game through a friend etc which were like "mentors" and tought them the basics and even further. If you try to get into eve-on solo there is a high chance that you wouldnt stick to it.
Thank you
What makes me sad about those who refuse to accept the possibility of Eve evolving further than it has, is that they just cannot see the potential that the game has to be so much more successful than it already is. Think of Eve with a 1/2 million players as opposed to 300,000 and half of which are dual accounts.
I'm a realist, not a lover or a hater. Eve has somehow managed to capture and give depth to certain MMO elements that many other MMO's have failed to do. And yet, on their own they aren't enough to entice many who try it to stay with it. Why? Because there is an inherent lack of purpose and direction in the game for some people.
I'm not talking about "hand holding", I'm talking about the same sort of purpose and direction that a good story gives to a movie or book. Without those elements, the scenes in a movie or book are just collections of random events which may or may not be linked. Just like the wars between the corps in Eve. And often, such movies that have no apparently purpose or direction in their narrative get terrible reviews because they leave the viewer feeling confused and disconnected from the scenario being portrayed.
Which, in my opinion, is precisely how I felt in Eve. Yes, it has a wonderful economy, crafting and mining system. It also has a random mission generator (the agents) and a faction system. But I personally need for more in an MMO than just that. In its present form, Eve is great from a PVP perspective. But it's not from a PVE perspective. Unfortunately certain members of the Eve player base have an almost pathological approach to the possibility of different playstyles sharing the same environment as them in THEIR game.
"Why should Eve cater to YOUR playstyle"
"Go back to Wow, this game isn't for you and never will be."
"We want our own game. We're tired of having to share with <<insert derogatory statement here>> and carebears"
etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.
What's amusing is that these people fail to realise that more players in the game of different playstyles means the potential for more players to be involved in THEIR own chosen playstyle. This is because when options are offered in the same game, then that provides the opportunity for people to try out playstyles that they wouldn't do normally.
As you said the mmo has to evolve or die trying it, as the same goes for players they should evolve or die trying it!
PS : Nearly all people who i know and which are playing eve-on told me that is "hard" to get into eve without any help from inside. They aswell admitted that nearly all of them get to the game through a friend etc which were like "mentors" and tought them the basics and even further. If you try to get into eve-on solo there is a high chance that you wouldnt stick to it.
Thank you
What makes me sad about those who refuse to accept the possibility of Eve evolving further than it has, is that they just cannot see the potential that the game has to be so much more successful than it already is. Think of Eve with a 1/2 million players as opposed to 300,000 and half of which are dual accounts.
I'm a realist, not a lover or a hater. Eve has somehow managed to capture and give depth to certain MMO elements that many other MMO's have failed to do. And yet, on their own they aren't enough to entice many who try it to stay with it. Why? Because there is an inherent lack of purpose and direction in the game for some people.
I'm not talking about "hand holding", I'm talking about the same sort of purpose and direction that a good story gives to a movie or book. Without those elements, the scenes in a movie or book are just collections of random events which may or may not be linked. Just like the wars between the corps in Eve. And often, such movies that have no apparently purpose or direction in their narrative get terrible reviews because they leave the viewer feeling confused and disconnected from the scenario being portrayed.
Which, in my opinion, is precisely how I felt in Eve. Yes, it has a wonderful economy, crafting and mining system. It also has a random mission generator (the agents) and a faction system. But I personally need for more in an MMO than just that. In its present form, Eve is great from a PVP perspective. But it's not from a PVE perspective. Unfortunately certain members of the Eve player base have an almost pathological approach to the possibility of different playstyles sharing the same environment as them in THEIR game.
"Why should Eve cater to YOUR playstyle"
"Go back to Wow, this game isn't for you and never will be."
"We want our own game. We're tired of having to share with <> and carebears"
etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.
What's amusing is that these people fail to realise that more players in the game of different playstyles means the potential for more players to be involved in THEIR own chosen playstyle. This is because when options are offered in the same game, then that provides the opportunity for people to try out playstyles that they wouldn't do normally.
Yeah ive seen that "opinion" far too often. People lack the common sense, that if they get more carebears onboard, that they aswell increas the funds for the game and which can contribute more for their playstyle aswell (even more sand for FFA PvP?).
And who got the dumb idea that the carebears wont one day become FFA PvP players?
I wont believe anyone who will tell me he was never a carebear once :P
Yet i have to see a sandbox which focus only on one audience group (like FFA PvP players) and dont fail.
Yeah ive seen that "opinion" far too often. People lack the common sense, that if they get more carebears onboard, that they aswell increas the funds for the game and which can contribute more for their playstyle aswell (even more sand for FFA PvP?).
And who got the dumb idea that the carebears wont one day become FFA PvP players?
I wont believe anyone who will tell me he was never a carebear once :P
Yet i have to see a sandbox which focus only on one audience group (like FFA PvP players) and dont fail.
A carebear at start or a carebear at some point simply because the game they were playing did not offer an alternative? I started with UO. My favorite game since starting was SB. Have I played non PvP games? Yep, though most of them have PvP in some fashion. AIs are stupid, there is no getting around that.
I have seen an increase in carebear population ruin games.
I do not think an increased percentage of carebears in EVE would ruin that game, because honestly - everything is about PvP regardless of what you are doing as has been stated previously. It really does not matter what you are doing, there is generally some form of player versus player interaction.
I do have an issue with an increased carebear population in a game that obviously cannot handle the current population. If CCP resolved those issues, an increase in carebear population would not matter - would it?
Well, it could - if they made more and more changes to cater to that side of the population that affects the gameplay of other people. While one may say that carebears have as much right to play the game as anybody else, that holds true if they are willing to play the game - not come there and change things for the worse.
If there were actual changes for the better, nobody is going to argue that.
WoW: PvE players cried about having to PvP for PvP gear (like duh), but sure enough - you can PvE for PvP gear. Can you PvP for PvE gear? No... but PvPers were not crying for it.
To an extent, I really do not use the term carebears for those against PvP. It is more for those that cry that it is "too hard" - whatever "that" may be... and generally speaking, yeah - they drag a game down.
EVE is not for everybody. It should not be for everybody, I mean - really, you know? The one-size fits all crap is killing the market.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Comments
I don't understand are you saying Eve has no progression? You consider grinding skills manually progression? What about setting goals and achieveing them?
As an example if my goal is to colonize a wormhole, Skills and isk are apart of it but also social skills, You need a corp willing to meet that common goal.
I personally would rather my "progression" or personal goal be more realistic than just shooting a lazer to gain a extra lazer point on my skill tree lol.
Just look at a game like Darkfall, you call logging into a Ork, and slicing a thousand NPCs for sword skill progression?
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Actually, yes, most people do believe that's progression. And, a lot think it's better because it's obtained in an active way, by playing the game - not log in, set skill in training queue, log out.
I understand a lot of people's misgivings with EvE's progression, which is passive, and something you cannot influence much by working harder.
Like everything else, it's all personal preference or taste. No one is wrong for liking, or not liking, any game. I just try not to freak out when someone doesn't like something I enjoy.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
So how exactly does a new player know all this going in, because the game doesn't spell this out for you, even in the tutorial. To most players, they have no problem doing a task if there is a point associated with that task.
Eve players talk about effort. Give me a reason to put forth that effort and maybe I'll consider it. Entertain me from the outset because 1st impressions with any game is vital to keep my interest. I have no problem setting goals if I know the reason why those goals are being set.
Other than setting my skill all of my progression has been active. Even more active than DF since the game is 100% skill raising and nothing else.
Your hard work comment is bullshit, Its taken me much more work to achieve my goals in Eve than simply hitting a npc with a sword.
Everything the poster you quoted brought up is covered in the tutorial and help menu. Read the info your given and discover the benefits.
My comments regarded skill progression, in which you agree - skill progression in EvE is passive, and the player has little in-game influence over it.
Of course, there are many types of overall character "progression", which all games have to one degree or another, even the ones you discount. That centers completely around the taste of each player, and what each player likes to do in any given game.
Oh, by the way, I personally think EvE is a great game, and I enjoy playing it. It's not incomprehensible to me, however, that some people don't.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Skills are such a small part of a players overall progression that to discredit eve strictly on a passive system (that still requires a ton of pre-planning) is damn near criminal.
The people that play Eve would rather play the game instead of grind repetitive skills over and over.
Honestly what would you rather do? Be forced to shoot your lasers at Npcs for hours for a rank up or turn on a skill and play eve however the hell you want while waiting for said skill?
I know which way im going, logging in just to work on character skills died with UO and its been proven to flood a game with macro bots for easy mode skill raises in other games.
Eves skill progression is the future.
Check out Perpetuum and Earthrise both use something similar and both are amazing.
30 in 2 days is easily doable if you know what your doing, you can hit 20 in only a few hours. But in wow you can level purely from pvp if you like (and quite quickly if you win a lot). Instead of doing quests or instances.
In Eve you can't just pvp all the time because the death pennalty is so high, if you jumped in to the game and tried after gaining some desent skills you will just loose everything and run in to a brick wall. It kinda puts a limit on what you can do which I don't like
You can pvp all the time. Use them there social skills your mamma gave you.
Find a corp with a ship replacement program. The good corps easily replace frigs and cruisers and train newbs.
No wonder you guys don't last in Eve, you can't think outside the box. To you guys Eve is nothing but Isk and skills.
Just a note, WOW sucks at low levels. Your stuck pvping in 1 or 2 bgs damn near the entire time and leveling strictly on pvp alone takes forever. Also I think you guys need to go outside more, 30 in two days? Instead of need rolling on those epics you guys might wanna need roll on some sex and a freaking job LOL!!!!
I have long lost count of the number of times I have had to try and explain this. It's pretty difficult to get some people to look up from their character sheet and realise that there's a game out there that involves more than making numbers on the sheet go up.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
It's like this because the genre has been designed to have a visable way on how your player is progressing. In most games it's readily apparent to see how your character is improving. In Eve, it's not so apparent. It's there, but you first need to understand how the game works to understand how you're improving your character. I've got not problem with the way Eve is designed, but the elitism of how some of these players (some in this thread) turn people off to the game in general. To have this attitude of 'it takes effort, you're being lazy otherwise' is ridiculous. It's a game, I'm playing it to be entertained. If I like what I see initially, I'll put forth some effort. As a game you have to win me over, not the other way around.
Eve certainly isnt a instant gradification kind of game. Eve is a deeply satisfying experience over the long haul. You won't find yourself getting bored of Eve like you would in three-six months in other mmos. While other mmos start to die down in that time due to repetitive endgame. Eve truly ramps up as you make more social ties and Have a clear set goal or goals.
I'll admit Eve doesn't do the best job of grabing hold of the more reward focused gamer (which is most players)initially. The skill system is passive and requires quite a bit of pre-planning (this could be frustrating). Eve tosses a ton of options at a player that need to be researched both in and out of game to fully understand.
These aren't flaws of the game, Eve is designed this way on purpose. The Devs know what kind of game they wanted and know the niche it fills. Im sure if they wanted you as a customer they would of tossed rewards at you on log in, they would create pvp battlegrounds with no risk and design pve with dungeons and the like.
This game is for us not you. We want to plan progress for years, we want to play in an immersive believeable universe filled with high risk even if there is no reward and when there is reward there's a good chance it can be taken away through the most honorable or dishonorable means.
Wars are fought, isk is made and lost. long term plans are set in place and dashed in an instant. People think outside the box here. We arent limited by some level, this game lets us go above and beyond anything we've ever imagined in a mmo. The price we pay for this is the game having a slow start (for some).
This game is designed for us, you have a hundred freaking games that will entertain you for a couple weeks only to fall flat, we want a much more meaningful experience, over years.
Good luck in your next game.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Here let me put you're feet up for you, would you like something to drink too? When you wake up we'll take you over to Blizzard, It's just down the street...... Happy now?
Woah
That's all fine. You're right, the game isn't for me and a whole lot of other folks. What I think is unfortunate is there are a substantial number of people that want to like the game, continue to try the game out and continue to run into a brick wall due to everything that's been discussed in this thread. It's been mentioned previously, by Eve players that there are tons of things the game could improve to get more subs without bastardizing it's core gameplay.
Isn't that the whole point of this thread, to understand why someone wanted to like the game but couldn't/didn't because of XY and Z? I don't understand why you took offense with my post, I said I didn't have a problem with Eve itself, just with the 'GTFO' attitude of some of it's players.
You seem to over look the obvious. The game is for a whole lot of other folks, and is doing just fine with them. Isn't it possible that to change a successful model to please players that don't like the game would be a mistake?
Who's talking about changing it to a 'successful' model? How about just changing the new player experience, expanding on the tutorials? How about adding more customization to ships so players can identify more with what their flying? How about explain things like skills a little bit better, perhaps even incorporate something like EveFit into the game.
I understand Eve is 'for other folks', that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.
Therein lies the problem with attempting to discuss Eve's faults, on the one hand some people in these forums cannot comprehend that it DOES have faults, whilst others cannot comprehend the possibility that changes COULD be made to Eve to not only retain the core gameplay to suit its existing playerbase, but also incorporate additional elements which could potentially attract a bigger playerbase. And the reason? Fear of the unknown.
There is an irrational fear that ANY additional refinement that potentially ellaborates on Eves shallow points could be devastating to the game as a whole.
Which is complete and utter bollox and has no foundation or justification. There is no reason whatsoever that Eve couldn't retain its current core gameplay whilst offering more than it does now. All it takes is a little imagination and product management. For a space based MMO, Eve has a good foundation. But, it fails to offer some elements that people expect or need. Unfortunately some lovers of Eve just cannot accept the fact that Eve isn't the perfect MMO for all playstyles that THEY think it is.
Sure Eve found a nice little niche for itself where it is the only player in town, but it doesn't have to stop there. It could expand. Let's also not forget that the space based MMO niche is changing. Eve is not the only player any more. And the new players in town have the potential to not only match what Eve offers, but also add elements which Eve couldn't offer itself.
The next 12 - 24 months will be interesting for the space based MMO genre as a whole.
Eve needs to Eve-olve or perhaps suffer the consequences of not doing so.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Credit to you. Rarely seen such good post
As you said the mmo has to evolve or die trying it, as the same goes for players they should evolve or die trying it!
PS : Nearly all people who i know and which are playing eve-on told me that is "hard" to get into eve without any help from inside. They aswell admitted that nearly all of them get to the game through a friend etc which were like "mentors" and tought them the basics and even further. If you try to get into eve-on solo there is a high chance that you wouldnt stick to it.
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
Thank you
What makes me sad about those who refuse to accept the possibility of Eve evolving further than it has, is that they just cannot see the potential that the game has to be so much more successful than it already is. Think of Eve with a 1/2 million players as opposed to 300,000 and half of which are dual accounts.
I'm a realist, not a lover or a hater. Eve has somehow managed to capture and give depth to certain MMO elements that many other MMO's have failed to do. And yet, on their own they aren't enough to entice many who try it to stay with it. Why? Because there is an inherent lack of purpose and direction in the game for some people.
I'm not talking about "hand holding", I'm talking about the same sort of purpose and direction that a good story gives to a movie or book. Without those elements, the scenes in a movie or book are just collections of random events which may or may not be linked. Just like the wars between the corps in Eve. And often, such movies that have no apparently purpose or direction in their narrative get terrible reviews because they leave the viewer feeling confused and disconnected from the scenario being portrayed.
Which, in my opinion, is precisely how I felt in Eve. Yes, it has a wonderful economy, crafting and mining system. It also has a random mission generator (the agents) and a faction system. But I personally need for more in an MMO than just that. In its present form, Eve is great from a PVP perspective. But it's not from a PVE perspective. Unfortunately certain members of the Eve player base have an almost pathological approach to the possibility of different playstyles sharing the same environment as them in THEIR game.
"Why should Eve cater to YOUR playstyle"
"Go back to Wow, this game isn't for you and never will be."
"We want our own game. We're tired of having to share with <<insert derogatory statement here>> and carebears"
etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.
What's amusing is that these people fail to realise that more players in the game of different playstyles means the potential for more players to be involved in THEIR own chosen playstyle. This is because when options are offered in the same game, then that provides the opportunity for people to try out playstyles that they wouldn't do normally.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Well said and totaly agree with you.
Yeah ive seen that "opinion" far too often. People lack the common sense, that if they get more carebears onboard, that they aswell increas the funds for the game and which can contribute more for their playstyle aswell (even more sand for FFA PvP?).
And who got the dumb idea that the carebears wont one day become FFA PvP players?
I wont believe anyone who will tell me he was never a carebear once :P
Yet i have to see a sandbox which focus only on one audience group (like FFA PvP players) and dont fail.
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
A carebear at start or a carebear at some point simply because the game they were playing did not offer an alternative? I started with UO. My favorite game since starting was SB. Have I played non PvP games? Yep, though most of them have PvP in some fashion. AIs are stupid, there is no getting around that.
I have seen an increase in carebear population ruin games.
I do not think an increased percentage of carebears in EVE would ruin that game, because honestly - everything is about PvP regardless of what you are doing as has been stated previously. It really does not matter what you are doing, there is generally some form of player versus player interaction.
I do have an issue with an increased carebear population in a game that obviously cannot handle the current population. If CCP resolved those issues, an increase in carebear population would not matter - would it?
Well, it could - if they made more and more changes to cater to that side of the population that affects the gameplay of other people. While one may say that carebears have as much right to play the game as anybody else, that holds true if they are willing to play the game - not come there and change things for the worse.
If there were actual changes for the better, nobody is going to argue that.
WoW: PvE players cried about having to PvP for PvP gear (like duh), but sure enough - you can PvE for PvP gear. Can you PvP for PvE gear? No... but PvPers were not crying for it.
To an extent, I really do not use the term carebears for those against PvP. It is more for those that cry that it is "too hard" - whatever "that" may be... and generally speaking, yeah - they drag a game down.
EVE is not for everybody. It should not be for everybody, I mean - really, you know? The one-size fits all crap is killing the market.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
How?
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
They try to make "everybody" happy, but end up making most of the people "sad"...
...the market needs to return to niche games that make the players of the game happy.
Instead, we bounce around subs - trying to forget, but always remembering.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%