The people spouting out crap about F2P games are the same ones who believe there are going to be death panels.
This is getting awefully close to political discussion and I think it's in everyone's best interests if we avoid that.
That's the girliest thing I've seen on these forums ever. And I've seen MMO_Doubter signing "It's Raining Men" at a Navy keg party.
All speculation, but my point is; 90% of the crap people say about F2P games is made up and out right lies.
Like the death panel BS.
Except that's not BS, that's absolute truth. Health care rationing by government fiat = death panels. Is it a more hyperbolic way of saying it so as to shock poeple? Yes. But it's true nonetheless. If you want to live in a world of fantasy and deny it, go right ahead.
5) No longer with getting that rare horse drop be so presitgious. Everybody will have one. Only 8.99 this week!!! Limited supplies get one now!! Or worse, you can only obtain an item through the shop. Are we grocery shopping here, or playing a game trying to build a legacy? Its a total sham that you can't obtain items through the game you are playing. Instead you have to buy it through an item shop. Is that what we all envisioned this genre to be? Paying for items from outside sources instead of playing the game to get ingame rewards?
4) No more economy from things like healing potions, or any other potion these shops deem non-essential to crafters. Would WoW even have an economy if you could just buy enchants and potions from the online store? No, it wouldn't. Buying goods in EC tunnels in EQ was a unique experience that I loved. Why is that devs thinks it OK to leave out the economy? In DDO, the only way to get powerful potions is through the online store.
3) Our games will become less about accomplishments. Hard to believe, but yes after all those 100% XP pots, and 100% increased loot potions what will anything mean? It used to be prestigious. Now, its a sellout.
2) Our MMORPGs are quickly turning into a quick-serve chain. Need a healer? Buy one for 1 hour for only 2 dollars!! Need a quick heal? Buy it!! Need that extra XP? Buy it!! Need a boost in stats? Buy it!! Need help taking down Da Crusher? Buy your help!!
1) Content being adjusted to shop items. This will happen. XP will be reduced to a crawl to entice people to buy. Loot will be rare, unless you buy a potion. That mob will need everyone in the raid to buy that special potion that reduces damage, or increases damage, or gives more HP.
I was once all for online shops. But then I thought about how the items in the shops can't be found ingame. That makes no sense for a MMORPG. That only hurts the spirit of what this genre once was. Can we even call that gaming? Or just shopping?
MMORPGs are quickly becoming less about the adventure and interaction amongst players, and more about giving players an immediate service for a fee.
in DDO supposed special pots and said special items as you say can be found in loot...and bought off on the auction house...same goes for the mercs..you can buy mercs...only thing you need DDO points for(which btw you can get for free by making favour) is for buying certain adventure packs..if LOTRO follows this i'm very happy...it's easy to assume that cash shops are a sham but tbh they've worked on that on most modern games and nowadays most don't even need a cash shop..look at runes of magic for instance..i fiished that game from top to bottom without using the shop once..another one would be DDO..without wasting a dime,i've already accumulated a fair amount of ddo points...if you don't believe me, there's an How TO on the ddo forums...so stop being ignorant and inform yourselves pls..also people with life time subscriptions get all the need, all the adventure packs and everything so yeah ppl with lifetime,you'll still have your game just as it was,only with more people around and don't tell me that's a bad thing.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
A lot of the people opposed to this move by Turbine are ignoring (or misrepresenting) three things:-
First, while it's perfectly true that some of the F2P games are junk, the same can be said of some of the P2P games. The quality of a game is determined by its content, not its business model. The reason so many F2P games are weak is because of the shallowness of their content, which is not a failing of LoTRO and which factor will not change under any element of F2P.
Second, while LoTRO will be incorporating F2P it will also retain the option of P2P. If people don't want to use the cash shop to access content they can pay a subscription exactly like now and access it that way. They don't need to spend years grinding to release stuff they can do exactly what they purport to like to do and pay a fixed monthly sub.
Third, people are misleading themselves and everyone else when they push the argument about it being a choice between spending time or money, claiming that they want to PLAY not PAY. They are in fact paying to play in any event, it's just a question of how they pay - at a fixed monthly charge for all the content whether they want it or not (eg I don't raid but part of my sub goes towards the development of raid content, the same with PvP), or a variable charge according to what they want to access (I don't need to buy access to the raid dungeons or Ettenmoors). Some people give the impression that they think that if you don't have a cash shop you aren't paying to play and that is total nonsense. My simple test is whether the overall cost of playing the game will be more than it currently is, but I don't see anyone applying that test before condemning the new business model (which is only an optional alternative as I've already stressed).
Also, some posters are clearly fixated on the whole cash shop thing without really knowing very much about how it already operates in DDO and is likely to opperate in LoTRO. There are absurd and unsubstantiated claims that you can buy essential gear in DDO that either can't be earned through playing the game or else can only be done so over massive periods of time and that is total and utter nonsense.
As for the argument that the introduction of F2P into a P2P game will lower the quality of the community, let's consider for a moment the obvious hole in that argument. Which game are the new players most likely to be drawn from? That's right, the one famous for the immature quality of its "Barrens chat", or to put it another way, a P2P game!
Well, im hoping this is just because sub numbers for LOTRO were bottoming out, rather than a sign of things to come for 'all' MMO's ... because quite frankly, i dont like cash shops, the buy to win mentality is something i particularly dislike, and no matter what the game, i will avoid them - if a game isnt good enough to be viable through subscriptions, then its because the game is flawed in some way, either through initial design, or a lack of evolutionary development. Rather than this being a sign of things to come, i would recommend it be used as a warning to MMO devs, of the consequences of inaction, or perhaps, lack of direction.
LOTRO is the number 3 MMO in the west. Over 13% of MMO players are playing turbine games.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
5) No longer with getting that rare horse drop be so presitgious. Everybody will have one. Only 8.99 this week!!! Limited supplies get one now!! Or worse, you can only obtain an item through the shop. Are we grocery shopping here, or playing a game trying to build a legacy? Its a total sham that you can't obtain items through the game you are playing. Instead you have to buy it through an item shop. Is that what we all envisioned this genre to be? Paying for items from outside sources instead of playing the game to get ingame rewards?
4) No more economy from things like healing potions, or any other potion these shops deem non-essential to crafters. Would WoW even have an economy if you could just buy enchants and potions from the online store? No, it wouldn't. Buying goods in EC tunnels in EQ was a unique experience that I loved. Why is that devs thinks it OK to leave out the economy? In DDO, the only way to get powerful potions is through the online store.
3) Our games will become less about accomplishments. Hard to believe, but yes after all those 100% XP pots, and 100% increased loot potions what will anything mean? It used to be prestigious. Now, its a sellout.
2) Our MMORPGs are quickly turning into a quick-serve chain. Need a healer? Buy one for 1 hour for only 2 dollars!! Need a quick heal? Buy it!! Need that extra XP? Buy it!! Need a boost in stats? Buy it!! Need help taking down Da Crusher? Buy your help!!
1) Content being adjusted to shop items. This will happen. XP will be reduced to a crawl to entice people to buy. Loot will be rare, unless you buy a potion. That mob will need everyone in the raid to buy that special potion that reduces damage, or increases damage, or gives more HP.
I was once all for online shops. But then I thought about how the items in the shops can't be found ingame. That makes no sense for a MMORPG. That only hurts the spirit of what this genre once was. Can we even call that gaming? Or just shopping?
MMORPGs are quickly becoming less about the adventure and interaction amongst players, and more about giving players an immediate service for a fee.
the shop system adopted by many free online games is a better way to increase profit. doesn't metter if if will please all the players. see atlantica online and her 10 bucks boxes with incredible items that u can't find in-game. I don't see people complaining about that. Sure i also prefer a monthly based mmo where everyone have the same chance to get something without having to pay for it.
And i don't bealive that turbine will sell these kinds of items like 7 days of +50% xp in lotro, at least not for a high level char
doin so, the only difference between lotro and other free mmorpgs will be the graphics
maybe some special recipes and foods, a lot of cosmetic, and other in-game features for free and premium players
all we can do is hope WB/turbine don't fu** this game up with poor changes
I wish more MMOs would adopt similar payment models. I'm not saying make them all F2P but I think monthly subscriptions are outdated, especially in the world of optional downloadable content that we live in now.
QFT.
Originally posted by Shadewalker
A lot of the people opposed to this move by Turbine are ignoring (or misrepresenting) three things:-
First, while it's perfectly true that some of the F2P games are junk, the same can be said of some of the P2P games. The quality of a game is determined by its content, not its business model. The reason so many F2P games are weak is because of the shallowness of their content, which is not a failing of LoTRO and which factor will not change under any element of F2P.
Second, while LoTRO will be incorporating F2P it will also retain the option of P2P. If people don't want to use the cash shop to access content they can pay a subscription exactly like now and access it that way. They don't need to spend years grinding to release stuff they can do exactly what they purport to like to do and pay a fixed monthly sub.
Third, people are misleading themselves and everyone else when they push the argument about it being a choice between spending time or money, claiming that they want to PLAY not PAY. They are in fact paying to play in any event, it's just a question of how they pay - at a fixed monthly charge for all the content whether they want it or not (eg I don't raid but part of my sub goes towards the development of raid content, the same with PvP), or a variable charge according to what they want to access (I don't need to buy access to the raid dungeons or Ettenmoors). Some people give the impression that they think that if you don't have a cash shop you aren't paying to play and that is total nonsense. My simple test is whether the overall cost of playing the game will be more than it currently is, but I don't see anyone applying that test before condemning the new business model (which is only an optional alternative as I've already stressed).
Also, some posters are clearly fixated on the whole cash shop thing without really knowing very much about how it already operates in DDO and is likely to opperate in LoTRO. There are absurd and unsubstantiated claims that you can buy essential gear in DDO that either can't be earned through playing the game or else can only be done so over massive periods of time and that is total and utter nonsense.
As for the argument that the introduction of F2P into a P2P game will lower the quality of the community, let's consider for a moment the obvious hole in that argument. Which game are the new players most likely to be drawn from? That's right, the one famous for the immature quality of its "Barrens chat", or to put it another way, a P2P game!
Comments
Here is why LOTRO is going "Free to Play"
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/28906/Study_FreeToPlay_Industry_To_Reach_7_Billion_By_2015.php
The average paying customer spends $28 a month on a "Free to Play" game. Compared to $15 with a sub (or $10 in this case, for the 3 month, $30 sub).
Free to play is not about expanding the userbase, so much as it is getting the existing userbase to spend more than $15 a month...
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
Except that's not BS, that's absolute truth. Health care rationing by government fiat = death panels. Is it a more hyperbolic way of saying it so as to shock poeple? Yes. But it's true nonetheless. If you want to live in a world of fantasy and deny it, go right ahead.
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
in DDO supposed special pots and said special items as you say can be found in loot...and bought off on the auction house...same goes for the mercs..you can buy mercs...only thing you need DDO points for(which btw you can get for free by making favour) is for buying certain adventure packs..if LOTRO follows this i'm very happy...it's easy to assume that cash shops are a sham but tbh they've worked on that on most modern games and nowadays most don't even need a cash shop..look at runes of magic for instance..i fiished that game from top to bottom without using the shop once..another one would be DDO..without wasting a dime,i've already accumulated a fair amount of ddo points...if you don't believe me, there's an How TO on the ddo forums...so stop being ignorant and inform yourselves pls..also people with life time subscriptions get all the need, all the adventure packs and everything so yeah ppl with lifetime,you'll still have your game just as it was,only with more people around and don't tell me that's a bad thing.
And now back to our regularly scheduled topic...
5 Reason why LOTRO going f2p should scare gamers
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
A lot of the people opposed to this move by Turbine are ignoring (or misrepresenting) three things:-
First, while it's perfectly true that some of the F2P games are junk, the same can be said of some of the P2P games. The quality of a game is determined by its content, not its business model. The reason so many F2P games are weak is because of the shallowness of their content, which is not a failing of LoTRO and which factor will not change under any element of F2P.
Second, while LoTRO will be incorporating F2P it will also retain the option of P2P. If people don't want to use the cash shop to access content they can pay a subscription exactly like now and access it that way. They don't need to spend years grinding to release stuff they can do exactly what they purport to like to do and pay a fixed monthly sub.
Third, people are misleading themselves and everyone else when they push the argument about it being a choice between spending time or money, claiming that they want to PLAY not PAY. They are in fact paying to play in any event, it's just a question of how they pay - at a fixed monthly charge for all the content whether they want it or not (eg I don't raid but part of my sub goes towards the development of raid content, the same with PvP), or a variable charge according to what they want to access (I don't need to buy access to the raid dungeons or Ettenmoors). Some people give the impression that they think that if you don't have a cash shop you aren't paying to play and that is total nonsense. My simple test is whether the overall cost of playing the game will be more than it currently is, but I don't see anyone applying that test before condemning the new business model (which is only an optional alternative as I've already stressed).
Also, some posters are clearly fixated on the whole cash shop thing without really knowing very much about how it already operates in DDO and is likely to opperate in LoTRO. There are absurd and unsubstantiated claims that you can buy essential gear in DDO that either can't be earned through playing the game or else can only be done so over massive periods of time and that is total and utter nonsense.
As for the argument that the introduction of F2P into a P2P game will lower the quality of the community, let's consider for a moment the obvious hole in that argument. Which game are the new players most likely to be drawn from? That's right, the one famous for the immature quality of its "Barrens chat", or to put it another way, a P2P game!
LOTRO is the number 3 MMO in the west. Over 13% of MMO players are playing turbine games.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
the shop system adopted by many free online games is a better way to increase profit. doesn't metter if if will please all the players. see atlantica online and her 10 bucks boxes with incredible items that u can't find in-game. I don't see people complaining about that. Sure i also prefer a monthly based mmo where everyone have the same chance to get something without having to pay for it.
And i don't bealive that turbine will sell these kinds of items like 7 days of +50% xp in lotro, at least not for a high level char
doin so, the only difference between lotro and other free mmorpgs will be the graphics
maybe some special recipes and foods, a lot of cosmetic, and other in-game features for free and premium players
all we can do is hope WB/turbine don't fu** this game up with poor changes
LOTRO player
QFT.
This sums up my opinion perfectly.
Total MMOs played: 274|Enjoyed: 9. >:|