It works fine as is and is central to stealth in the game. You don't just want a vanity angle, you wanna see what's around you in a 360-degree panorama. No thanks, I kinda liked that point and I didn't even play a thief.
I agree with that You either want an Old School sandbox MMo or you don't, 3rd person Veiw is the first step down a slippery slope.
Are you a liberal?
Give me an explenation as to why sandbox MMO's are only allowed to have FPV perspective. Can't think of one? I'll give you an explenation why sandboxes should have TPV perspectives. TPV is simply more popular and more people are familar with it, It's a RPG and not a FPS, and the world is already harsh enough as it is. Forcing us into FPV is really a step backwards if you are looking to attract more players.
I'll be devils advocate here. MO doesn't have a tab targetting system and their attacks are aim based, so TPV would be a bit diffiicult to pull off. That doesn't mean my points are invalid. There's no reason the next sandbox can't be designed in a way that's much more familiar to the players.
Poor agrument.
WoW is more popular than Darkfall, does that mean this game should steal every idea from WoW instead of try to be something more realistic and difficult?
Just because everyone is used to it doesn't mean it is the best method. Go play Elder Scrolls Oblivion, it gives you the option to toggle 1st and 3rd person, and after about 1 minute of 3rd person you realize how much more immersive 1st person made it. This game is a combo of FPS and MMO, 1st person suits it perfectly.
You forgot to tell us why 3rd person was less immersive in Oblivion. The character animations in Oblivion are very poor. no one wants to look at bad animations all day.
And yes, if WOW has 12 million + subscriptions and they use it.. not to mention about 95% of the MMO's use it.. I'd say it's a pretty good idea to use it. That right there is reason enough. It can work in single player games, but for games where you must be aware of your surroundings.. it's really a must if you want to attract people. I'm not just arguing from a game mechanic standpoint, I'm also thinking from a business perspective as well.
Why on earth the devs didn't create a toggle to play in FPV or TPV is beyond me. Choice is better for everyone. Till I get to associate with my avatar by actually SEEING it, I can't consider this game an RPG.
It has to do with stealth and realism. Can you stand up right now and see 360 degrees around you for several feet? Of course not. So why should you have that advantage in a video game? I don't really think anyone cares if you try it or not, there isn't going to be a 3rd person option any time soon, probably never.
You mean I can't stand behind a tree or duck down in high grass in 3rd person and not be caught? I've snuck up on tons of players in games like WoW. In FPV games, that field of view isn't realistic either. You would need 3 monitors to see the peripherals that you do in real life. There is no advantage if everyone was using.
Here's what I find funny. If this game was designed in 3rd person, NONE of you would be assaulting the forums asking for there to be a 1st person view. Why? It should be obvious. That being said, you're right.. I don't think MO will ever have TPV.
You're making my point with that last paragraph, your right. Noone would want 1st person view if 3rd was already in because its a severe handicap when playing with ppl using tpv.
Ok, I think what alot of people dont understand is that the devs (and alot of the fanbase) wanted the game to be fpv. The reason making a mmo geared towards fpv play requires you to hold it to fpv is that by adding tpv you effectively eliminate fpv use entirely. think about it, this is a ffa pvp game. There are clear advantages in being able to use tpv in combat. Not to mention it also eliminates stealth entirely. You can't sneak up on someone who has eyes in the back of their head. People want to be competitive in the game so even the people who like to play fpv wouldn't because of the disadvantages.
Again, I've snuck up on tons of people unstealthed in WoW. That point is moot. I was here when both DF and MO were in development and there were heated discussions on the field of view. Don't be ignorants, there were a LOT of people against FPV as well. It's always a big discussion in any game that considers it. Yes, you gain an advantage in perception, NOT in combat.
And finally, you made my point for me. If you add TPV to the game, FPV is dead. The reason is horribly obvious. If the players who play it would rather use it, what does that say? Exactly.
Why on earth the devs didn't create a toggle to play in FPV or TPV is beyond me. Choice is better for everyone. Till I get to associate with my avatar by actually SEEING it, I can't consider this game an RPG.
It has to do with stealth and realism. Can you stand up right now and see 360 degrees around you for several feet? Of course not. So why should you have that advantage in a video game? I don't really think anyone cares if you try it or not, there isn't going to be a 3rd person option any time soon, probably never.
You mean I can't stand behind a tree or duck down in high grass in 3rd person and not be caught? I've snuck up on tons of players in games like WoW. In FPV games, that field of view isn't realistic either. You would need 3 monitors to see the peripherals that you do in real life. There is no advantage if everyone was using.
Here's what I find funny. If this game was designed in 3rd person, NONE of you would be assaulting the forums asking for there to be a 1st person view. Why? It should be obvious. That being said, you're right.. I don't think MO will ever have TPV.
You're making my point with that last paragraph, your right. Noone would want 1st person view if 3rd was already in because its a severe handicap when playing with ppl using tpv.
What? If the game was designed in 3rd person, there would be no 1st person. So, there would be no advantage because 1st person doesn't exist. You're arguing something different.
If you read my other posts.. which you obviously didn't. I already stated that I'm not in agreement with the OP about having a toggle. I just want 3rd person exclusively.. and I've also said it probably wouldn't work in this game anyways.
Ok, I think what alot of people dont understand is that the devs (and alot of the fanbase) wanted the game to be fpv. The reason making a mmo geared towards fpv play requires you to hold it to fpv is that by adding tpv you effectively eliminate fpv use entirely. think about it, this is a ffa pvp game. There are clear advantages in being able to use tpv in combat. Not to mention it also eliminates stealth entirely. You can't sneak up on someone who has eyes in the back of their head. People want to be competitive in the game so even the people who like to play fpv wouldn't because of the disadvantages.
Again, I've snuck up on tons of people unstealthed in WoW. That point is moot. I was here when both DF and MO were in development and there were heated discussions on the field of view. Don't be ignorants, there were a LOT of people against FPV as well. It's always a big discussion in any game that considers it. Yes, you gain an advantage in perception, NOT in combat.
And finally, you made my point for me. If you add TPV to the game, FPV is dead. The reason is horribly obvious. If the players who play it would rather use it, what does that say? Exactly.
You missed what I was saying as to WHY fpv would die, not because the people wouldn't like it, because it has disadvantages in perception, and perception does play a major role in a fps style combat system. So you can't affect perception without affecting combat.
It always cracks me up when people decry that allowing the choice between First and Third Person View would be unfair to those who prefer first person....and yet a level 50 player kicking the crap out of a level 2 player is totally ok....
such lovely irony, to me lol
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
It always cracks me up when people decry that allowing the choice between First and Third Person View would be unfair to those who prefer first person....and yet a level 50 player kicking the crap out of a level 2 player is totally ok....
such lovely irony, to me lol
irrelevant, i've never advocated for targeting people who are weaker than me.
Keeping in mind that in the first RPGs (1980's) they were always in the first person view and you could never see your avatar.
WHAT?
Umm.. Ultima 1? Rogue? Akalabeth? Temple of Apshai?
FPV or TPV is a preference... but anyone who tried to say that the original or "Old School" RPGs were FPV is utterly wrong. Wizardry is the only one that comes to mind as an early attempt at FPV.. but that certainly wasn't the norm.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Ok, I think what alot of people dont understand is that the devs (and alot of the fanbase) wanted the game to be fpv. The reason making a mmo geared towards fpv play requires you to hold it to fpv is that by adding tpv you effectively eliminate fpv use entirely. think about it, this is a ffa pvp game. There are clear advantages in being able to use tpv in combat. Not to mention it also eliminates stealth entirely. You can't sneak up on someone who has eyes in the back of their head. People want to be competitive in the game so even the people who like to play fpv wouldn't because of the disadvantages.
Again, I've snuck up on tons of people unstealthed in WoW. That point is moot. I was here when both DF and MO were in development and there were heated discussions on the field of view. Don't be ignorants, there were a LOT of people against FPV as well. It's always a big discussion in any game that considers it. Yes, you gain an advantage in perception, NOT in combat.
And finally, you made my point for me. If you add TPV to the game, FPV is dead. The reason is horribly obvious. If the players who play it would rather use it, what does that say? Exactly.
You missed what I was saying as to WHY fpv would die, not because the people wouldn't like it, because it has disadvantages in perception, and perception does play a major role in a fps style combat system. So you can't affect perception without affecting combat.
That's why I said that because MO decided against tab targetting, TPV would be near impossible. Unless it was a mix of the two, like AoC.
It always cracks me up when people decry that allowing the choice between First and Third Person View would be unfair to those who prefer first person....and yet a level 50 player kicking the crap out of a level 2 player is totally ok....
such lovely irony, to me lol
irrelevant, i've never advocated for targeting people who are weaker than me.
Well, funny enough... your point is invalid too. The poster you're responding to has a very valid point. It actually is rather ironic. That sort of thing happens in sandbox game a lot. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean that there aren't a ton of 'play to crush' sandboxers that don't.
But congrats. You get +1 in respect. I don't kill others.. no matter their level or skill.. unless they do something to deserve it.
Ultimately. If you put up a poll on any gaming forum or website.. I'd say 90% to 10% would be pretty reasonable to see as an end result. Businesses are about money. Players are money. So players are business. If you cater to the minority, it will always be a niche genre.
yeah i physicly CAN'T play the game because its in FPV. i get extremely sick when i play FPV games, wich sux i miss out on alot of good rpgs/shooters because they only offer FPV i have to try and find mods that will let me put them in TPV. friends talked me into getting Left 4 Dead but i only agreed to it after i found a way to play in TPV and had them test to make sure it worked lol
i'm not looking to scroll waaaay back to see every little thing,TPV with the crosshair over the shoulder is usually enough to prevent the motion sickenss caused by FPV. hell i don't even need to see my entire person i think Left 4 Dead only goes back as far back for me to see my character from the knees up and the targetting is just over his shoulder and works enough to keep from getting sick,
Keeping in mind that in the first RPGs (1980's) they were always in the first person view and you could never see your avatar.
WHAT?
Umm.. Ultima 1? Rogue? Akalabeth? Temple of Apshai?
FPV or TPV is a preference... but anyone who tried to say that the original or "Old School" RPGs were FPV is utterly wrong. Wizardry is the only one that comes to mind as an early attempt at FPV.. but that certainly wasn't the norm.
The majority of gameplay takes place in a dungeon rendered in simple wire-frame first-person perspective graphics, with a simple above-ground map and text to fill out the rest of the adventure. Garriott's earlier games, including D&D28, were text-based. For Akalabeth, he added graphics for the Apple II computer.
If we are looking to the "old school" to decide whether fpv or tpv is "better", it's a mixed bag. Of course in the older games, third person view meant top down isometric view, not the over the shoulder third person perspective (or floating camera) most people are thinking of.
Why on earth the devs didn't create a toggle to play in FPV or TPV is beyond me. Choice is better for everyone. Till I get to associate with my avatar by actually SEEING it, I can't consider this game an RPG.
You can see you avatar by going to your characer menu. It will show you the rag doll of your character.
So none of this running around staring at some elf butt in a thong because your too sad to watch porn or even get a girlfriend.
Ok, I think what alot of people dont understand is that the devs (and alot of the fanbase) wanted the game to be fpv. The reason making a mmo geared towards fpv play requires you to hold it to fpv is that by adding tpv you effectively eliminate fpv use entirely. think about it, this is a ffa pvp game. There are clear advantages in being able to use tpv in combat. Not to mention it also eliminates stealth entirely. You can't sneak up on someone who has eyes in the back of their head. People want to be competitive in the game so even the people who like to play fpv wouldn't because of the disadvantages.
Again, I've snuck up on tons of people unstealthed in WoW. That point is moot. I was here when both DF and MO were in development and there were heated discussions on the field of view. Don't be ignorants, there were a LOT of people against FPV as well. It's always a big discussion in any game that considers it. Yes, you gain an advantage in perception, NOT in combat.
And finally, you made my point for me. If you add TPV to the game, FPV is dead. The reason is horribly obvious. If the players who play it would rather use it, what does that say? Exactly.
For as many people in WoW you've snuck up on - without stealth - you've panned you camera behind you while drinking or something between fights and have found some random enemy running towards you in STV or where ever just as many times or more than you've been able to successfully sneak up on.
Yeah - you can sneak up on someone to a certain extent... a lot of people zoom out a lot.. in MO or Darkfall you don't react till after they hit you.. you can start reacting in WoW 1-2 seconds before... and that doesn't count all the times you've been able to see the guy trying to sneak up behind you - that would ruin the game.
And EQ was primarily FPV - yeah it had the option to zoom out and see your character (not sure if it was in at release or not but I'm sure it was)... but everyone I know played it in FPV primarily.. only time I zoom out was to see my new gear/weapon I had aquired or to occasionally change things up and watch my character fight.. but targetting was such a pain and your character would primarily just get in the way in EQ's tpv..
And EQ was primarily FPV - yeah it had the option to zoom out and see your character (not sure if it was in at release or not but I'm sure it was)... but everyone I know played it in FPV primarily.. only time I zoom out was to see my new gear/weapon I had aquired or to occasionally change things up and watch my character fight.. but targetting was such a pain and your character would primarily just get in the way in EQ's tpv..
Most people played EQ in FPV because the TPV was a cumbersome manipulation of the mouse and the F9 key.
News Flash: EQ uses WoW's TPV now with the mouse, guess even SoE can learn what people want and not stick to old worn out "uber" ways of doing things.
I have to chuckle when I read all the "UO did it this way" and "the older games did this" from people that obviously didn't play them since they probably were still in diapers at that point in computer history.
Do you know why so many games did things the way you have been told or read in that all knowing fountain of knowledge the Wiki (lol, yeah right use that for a reference for your masters thesis)? Because computers were too weak back then to handle things like 3rd person view without hitching like Mortal does even today.
"If you were as smart as you think you are, you would realize that you are an idiot"
And EQ was primarily FPV - yeah it had the option to zoom out and see your character (not sure if it was in at release or not but I'm sure it was)... but everyone I know played it in FPV primarily.. only time I zoom out was to see my new gear/weapon I had aquired or to occasionally change things up and watch my character fight.. but targetting was such a pain and your character would primarily just get in the way in EQ's tpv..
Most people played EQ in FPV because the TPV was a cumbersome manipulation of the mouse and the F9 key.
News Flash: EQ uses WoW's TPV now with the mouse, guess even SoE can learn what people want and not stick to old worn out "uber" ways of doing things.
I have to chuckle when I read all the "UO did it this way" and "the older games did this" from people that obviously didn't play them since they probably were still in diapers at that point in computer history.
Do you know why so many games did things the way you have been told or read in that all knowing fountain of knowledge the Wiki (lol, yeah right use that for a reference for your masters thesis)? Because computers were too weak back then to handle things like 3rd person view without hitching like Mortal does even today.
As the only person to refer to wikipedia, I'd like to point out that wikipedia didn't exist when I got my doctorate. Condescension is good for boasting but not for persuasion.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both FPV and TPV. Ultimately its a judgement call based on what the devs think fits best with the overall design of the game. "EQ does it this way now" is no more valid than "EQ used to do it that way".
Mats Persson: But here it goes: We, personally, think first-person view in our game, Mortal Online, is more immersive than third-person view - even though we like third-person view and not necessarily find first-person view more immersive or better in general. For instance, most of us play games in third-person view and find that view better suited for those games. Also, there are a number of MO-features and situations that simply couldn't be made or achieved in third-person view that we believe would generally be regarded as "stuff adding more immersiveness to the gaming experience". And we find it very important to include those features, as we feel the game becomes more immersive with them than third-person view without them. You ask me why we chose first person view for our game, and conclusively we chose it:
making a toggle would be gamebreaking for a lot of ppl, would ruin lot of features like thievering, crafting would become dull, and so; has been stated by devs several times 1st person only.
it is a FEATURE, a core one, then i suggest to open your mind and try it, plenty of ppl have got used alrready if you dont like it move on might not fit your gamepreferences (no big drama).
Optional 1st person view is ok. Forced 1st persion view is garbage, only helps gankers and thieves and nobody else.
But I dont see how it is anywhere remotely related to "old school" MMOGs or FFA PvP. Ultima Online had 3rd person/bird view and both Asherons Call and EQ had optional 3rd person view. This whole notion that it somehow enchances gameplay is nonsense. The devs said it is an awesome feature and the hardcore fans are repeating it like gospel but in fact it is just a sure way to alienate MMOG players, where vast majority of, preferer 3rd person view.
Like many have stated already FPV is in the game as a CORE FEATURE, one so vital to the game many other features of the game would be ruined if TPV was ever introduced. I'm not going to repeat the words of the many who already have stated quite clearly why TPV would ruin the game-play.
Those that don't like it find yourself another game to try, or you know, broaden your horizons and try something different. If seeing your character is that important to you I'm speechless, pressing "P" in the game allows you to see your character stats along with how you currently look.
Like many have stated already FPV is in the game as a CORE FEATURE, one so vital to the game many other features of the game would be ruined if TPV was ever introduced. I'm not going to repeat the words of the many who already have stated quite clearly why TPV would ruin the game-play.
Those that don't like it find yourself another game to try, or you know, broaden your horizons and try something different. If seeing your character is that important to you I'm speechless, pressing "P" in the game allows you to see your character stats along with how you currently look.
What vital core features would TPV destroy? Combat? No. Lack of stealth? Perhaps. Though I don't see that as being a core feature. Not being able to stealth is just 'a feature'. Does it change the world design? No Weather? No. Guild war? No. Housing? No. FFA PvP? No, in fact it makes it harder to survive. Theivery? No, actually it's made it so difficult to implement this that they have temporarily disabled it. PvE? No, I'd say it makes it much harder especially with multiple opponents.
I suppose where I say it is bad, you could say it is good because you prefer a much more difficult experience. Ultimately, if it were me.. I'd ask myself as a businessman, this question. 'Do I want to attract a niche audience or do I want to attract the mainstream audience?' If you polled this question anywhere with any gamer, 90% of the people would choose TPV over FPV, especially in a MMO where there is so much more going on. For some people it's about what their character looks like, for others it is about how immersive they think it is, and then finally.. there are those that simply get sick in FPV. Every sandbox developer alienates the majority of the gamers by making choices like this.
There is not a single core feature that would be damaged by TPV in my opinion. Explain yourself.
The game was designed from the ground up around the idea that it would be FPV only. I'm no fan of MO, and I'm pretty sure it's going to fail unless a miracle happens, but I have to side with Star Vault on this. From very early on, they've made clear how the game would be played and repeatedly said "If you don't like this, this isn't the game for you." So sure, complain all you want, but you might as well be bitching that a motorcycle isn't a car, or that baseball doesn't have goalposts, because what you're demanding is entirely against the gameplay's premise.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Comments
You forgot to tell us why 3rd person was less immersive in Oblivion. The character animations in Oblivion are very poor. no one wants to look at bad animations all day.
And yes, if WOW has 12 million + subscriptions and they use it.. not to mention about 95% of the MMO's use it.. I'd say it's a pretty good idea to use it. That right there is reason enough. It can work in single player games, but for games where you must be aware of your surroundings.. it's really a must if you want to attract people. I'm not just arguing from a game mechanic standpoint, I'm also thinking from a business perspective as well.
You're making my point with that last paragraph, your right. Noone would want 1st person view if 3rd was already in because its a severe handicap when playing with ppl using tpv.
Again, I've snuck up on tons of people unstealthed in WoW. That point is moot. I was here when both DF and MO were in development and there were heated discussions on the field of view. Don't be ignorants, there were a LOT of people against FPV as well. It's always a big discussion in any game that considers it. Yes, you gain an advantage in perception, NOT in combat.
And finally, you made my point for me. If you add TPV to the game, FPV is dead. The reason is horribly obvious. If the players who play it would rather use it, what does that say? Exactly.
What? If the game was designed in 3rd person, there would be no 1st person. So, there would be no advantage because 1st person doesn't exist. You're arguing something different.
If you read my other posts.. which you obviously didn't. I already stated that I'm not in agreement with the OP about having a toggle. I just want 3rd person exclusively.. and I've also said it probably wouldn't work in this game anyways.
You missed what I was saying as to WHY fpv would die, not because the people wouldn't like it, because it has disadvantages in perception, and perception does play a major role in a fps style combat system. So you can't affect perception without affecting combat.
It always cracks me up when people decry that allowing the choice between First and Third Person View would be unfair to those who prefer first person....and yet a level 50 player kicking the crap out of a level 2 player is totally ok....
such lovely irony, to me lol
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
irrelevant, i've never advocated for targeting people who are weaker than me.
WHAT?
Umm.. Ultima 1? Rogue? Akalabeth? Temple of Apshai?
FPV or TPV is a preference... but anyone who tried to say that the original or "Old School" RPGs were FPV is utterly wrong. Wizardry is the only one that comes to mind as an early attempt at FPV.. but that certainly wasn't the norm.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
That's why I said that because MO decided against tab targetting, TPV would be near impossible. Unless it was a mix of the two, like AoC.
Well, funny enough... your point is invalid too. The poster you're responding to has a very valid point. It actually is rather ironic. That sort of thing happens in sandbox game a lot. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean that there aren't a ton of 'play to crush' sandboxers that don't.
But congrats. You get +1 in respect. I don't kill others.. no matter their level or skill.. unless they do something to deserve it.
Ultimately. If you put up a poll on any gaming forum or website.. I'd say 90% to 10% would be pretty reasonable to see as an end result. Businesses are about money. Players are money. So players are business. If you cater to the minority, it will always be a niche genre.
yeah i physicly CAN'T play the game because its in FPV. i get extremely sick when i play FPV games, wich sux i miss out on alot of good rpgs/shooters because they only offer FPV i have to try and find mods that will let me put them in TPV. friends talked me into getting Left 4 Dead but i only agreed to it after i found a way to play in TPV and had them test to make sure it worked lol
i'm not looking to scroll waaaay back to see every little thing,TPV with the crosshair over the shoulder is usually enough to prevent the motion sickenss caused by FPV. hell i don't even need to see my entire person i think Left 4 Dead only goes back as far back for me to see my character from the knees up and the targetting is just over his shoulder and works enough to keep from getting sick,
The majority of gameplay takes place in a dungeon rendered in simple wire-frame first-person perspective graphics, with a simple above-ground map and text to fill out the rest of the adventure. Garriott's earlier games, including D&D28, were text-based. For Akalabeth, he added graphics for the Apple II computer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akalabeth
Wizardry, Bard's tale, the dungeons in Ultima1.
If we are looking to the "old school" to decide whether fpv or tpv is "better", it's a mixed bag. Of course in the older games, third person view meant top down isometric view, not the over the shoulder third person perspective (or floating camera) most people are thinking of.
You can see you avatar by going to your characer menu. It will show you the rag doll of your character.
So none of this running around staring at some elf butt in a thong because your too sad to watch porn or even get a girlfriend.
So much crap, so little quality.
For as many people in WoW you've snuck up on - without stealth - you've panned you camera behind you while drinking or something between fights and have found some random enemy running towards you in STV or where ever just as many times or more than you've been able to successfully sneak up on.
Yeah - you can sneak up on someone to a certain extent... a lot of people zoom out a lot.. in MO or Darkfall you don't react till after they hit you.. you can start reacting in WoW 1-2 seconds before... and that doesn't count all the times you've been able to see the guy trying to sneak up behind you - that would ruin the game.
And EQ was primarily FPV - yeah it had the option to zoom out and see your character (not sure if it was in at release or not but I'm sure it was)... but everyone I know played it in FPV primarily.. only time I zoom out was to see my new gear/weapon I had aquired or to occasionally change things up and watch my character fight.. but targetting was such a pain and your character would primarily just get in the way in EQ's tpv..
Most people played EQ in FPV because the TPV was a cumbersome manipulation of the mouse and the F9 key.
News Flash: EQ uses WoW's TPV now with the mouse, guess even SoE can learn what people want and not stick to old worn out "uber" ways of doing things.
I have to chuckle when I read all the "UO did it this way" and "the older games did this" from people that obviously didn't play them since they probably were still in diapers at that point in computer history.
Do you know why so many games did things the way you have been told or read in that all knowing fountain of knowledge the Wiki (lol, yeah right use that for a reference for your masters thesis)? Because computers were too weak back then to handle things like 3rd person view without hitching like Mortal does even today.
"If you were as smart as you think you are, you would realize that you are an idiot"
As the only person to refer to wikipedia, I'd like to point out that wikipedia didn't exist when I got my doctorate. Condescension is good for boasting but not for persuasion.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both FPV and TPV. Ultimately its a judgement call based on what the devs think fits best with the overall design of the game. "EQ does it this way now" is no more valid than "EQ used to do it that way".
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/57488-post55.html
Mats Persson: But here it goes: We, personally, think first-person view in our game, Mortal Online, is more immersive than third-person view - even though we like third-person view and not necessarily find first-person view more immersive or better in general. For instance, most of us play games in third-person view and find that view better suited for those games. Also, there are a number of MO-features and situations that simply couldn't be made or achieved in third-person view that we believe would generally be regarded as "stuff adding more immersiveness to the gaming experience". And we find it very important to include those features, as we feel the game becomes more immersive with them than third-person view without them. You ask me why we chose first person view for our game, and conclusively we chose it:
Because of the immersion.
making a toggle would be gamebreaking for a lot of ppl, would ruin lot of features like thievering, crafting would become dull, and so; has been stated by devs several times 1st person only.
it is a FEATURE, a core one, then i suggest to open your mind and try it, plenty of ppl have got used alrready if you dont like it move on might not fit your gamepreferences (no big drama).
Optional 1st person view is ok. Forced 1st persion view is garbage, only helps gankers and thieves and nobody else.
But I dont see how it is anywhere remotely related to "old school" MMOGs or FFA PvP. Ultima Online had 3rd person/bird view and both Asherons Call and EQ had optional 3rd person view. This whole notion that it somehow enchances gameplay is nonsense. The devs said it is an awesome feature and the hardcore fans are repeating it like gospel but in fact it is just a sure way to alienate MMOG players, where vast majority of, preferer 3rd person view.
My gaming blog
Garbage? Really, garbage?
Please stay on the topic of the thread.
Like many have stated already FPV is in the game as a CORE FEATURE, one so vital to the game many other features of the game would be ruined if TPV was ever introduced. I'm not going to repeat the words of the many who already have stated quite clearly why TPV would ruin the game-play.
Those that don't like it find yourself another game to try, or you know, broaden your horizons and try something different. If seeing your character is that important to you I'm speechless, pressing "P" in the game allows you to see your character stats along with how you currently look.
Full Sail University - Game Design
What vital core features would TPV destroy? Combat? No. Lack of stealth? Perhaps. Though I don't see that as being a core feature. Not being able to stealth is just 'a feature'. Does it change the world design? No Weather? No. Guild war? No. Housing? No. FFA PvP? No, in fact it makes it harder to survive. Theivery? No, actually it's made it so difficult to implement this that they have temporarily disabled it. PvE? No, I'd say it makes it much harder especially with multiple opponents.
I suppose where I say it is bad, you could say it is good because you prefer a much more difficult experience. Ultimately, if it were me.. I'd ask myself as a businessman, this question. 'Do I want to attract a niche audience or do I want to attract the mainstream audience?' If you polled this question anywhere with any gamer, 90% of the people would choose TPV over FPV, especially in a MMO where there is so much more going on. For some people it's about what their character looks like, for others it is about how immersive they think it is, and then finally.. there are those that simply get sick in FPV. Every sandbox developer alienates the majority of the gamers by making choices like this.
There is not a single core feature that would be damaged by TPV in my opinion. Explain yourself.
The game was designed from the ground up around the idea that it would be FPV only. I'm no fan of MO, and I'm pretty sure it's going to fail unless a miracle happens, but I have to side with Star Vault on this. From very early on, they've made clear how the game would be played and repeatedly said "If you don't like this, this isn't the game for you." So sure, complain all you want, but you might as well be bitching that a motorcycle isn't a car, or that baseball doesn't have goalposts, because what you're demanding is entirely against the gameplay's premise.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous