While I personally agree that SOE has essentially abandoned Vanguard, I would expect a supposedly "neutral" gaming news site to write a far more reasoned story than this. This is the kind of thing you read in the Vanguard forums, and for which an "I hate SOE" thread was deliberately stickied so these types of rants can all go in there.
The truth of the matter is Vanguard only runs on higher-end gaming-specific machines. Even with every graphic setting as low as you can go, unless you've got a dedicated grapics card designed for computer gaming, Vanguard is a lag-fest. With that in mind, it's within the realm of possibility that SOE is shelving Vanguard until everyday computer technology catches up to the system requirements of the game for casual players. That theory is just as valid, and far more likely, than the author's ridiculous contention that SOE bought Vanguard to kill it to protect Everquest 2 (or whatever the current conspiracy theory du jour is).
And as someone who recently tried Vanguard, I totally understand that the game simply is not going to appeal to everybody. While Vanguard's world may be vast, nothing looks terribly innovative if you're just going into the game today. What's more, some of the game's more unique features require a bit of a learning curve, and others (like their death penalty) are just very unpopular and "un-fun". I know, it's great for hardcore gamers, but not everyone who likes and pays for MMOs is "hardcore".
Given all the challenges the very game itself poses for the random player who picks up the trial, I don't know how many people will end up sticking it out for the "vastness" of Vanguard.
But the big problem here was this entry wouldn't have even been tolerated in the Vanguard-specific forum here. Yet it makes the front page? That's just an embarrassment.
Gee so much positive responses to the post and Vanguard Im overwhelmed with emotion......not !!!
I love Vanguard and will continue to pay my subscription until the game go's under
Good idea's Justin ...I'll support any initiative to increase support for the game ,lets see what people suggest
No offense but its subscribers like you that keep telling publishers/developers that they can release anything and someone will pay for it. This game warranted a damn BOYCOTT of all SoE games, thats how horrid this game was at launch and yes you might be having fun and loving the game but sometimes you need to take a step back and let it go for the community.
You do realize that Vanguard was not a SoE game right? Microsoft dumped Sigil who developed it and SoE just published it. Does seem pointless that SoE saved VG, which probably would have never been released otherwise, only to neglect it afterward though.
You do realize when I purchased my handy box that was vanguard it says SoE. Yeah i know who developed it and SoE should of did what Microsoft did and Dumped this pile because they knew CEO of Sigil was a complete dufus when he made this game. He wasnt making head way on the game so they dumbed his ass. SoE being that they might of owed Brad i think it is was the owner of Sigil a favor for the sucess EQ1 had so they took a gamble on him. But Sigil was still BSing and SoE being SoE released the pile that was VG at launch. And since SoE were the ones behind the LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH agenda its SoE's Fault just as much as its Sigil. Hence me saying Developers(sigil)/Publishers(SoE) think they can just release any pile of crap and people will still pay. We should of Boycotted SoE so they know the next time they decided to publish a damn pile they will know better. But they wont because VANGUARD IS STILL ALIVE. and Developers like Sigil know they can just make a game thats 60% done and still make a profit when they release it. Yeah they wont make any future profits but they made a little profit after launch.
As to SoE neglecting VG they were just being Capitolistic n nature and Earned there little bit of profits at launch heard all the negative things about it once it did launch and made the decesion to just not waste any more money on the game that they helped get released. They moved it into the catagory of If VG makes money we will spend it if the numbers just keep dying we will MILK IT FOR ALL ITS WORTH and let it die. Guess which one they choose VGBoi/Gurls???!!!
They bought it to insure that it would be right where it is now. Nowhere.
They made some changes (pretty much all bad) to the game but never EVER put any effort into actually adding to and developing the game.
Easy, at release SOE putted time and efford into getting the game to a level of stability to become actual playeble, the game was very unstable.
They brought it to a playeble level. They did invest in adding content.
Despite their effords people kept on leaving, granted they could have spent more time and efford on promotion but at the time, fixing the game was more important.
Without SOE the game wouldnt come as far as it is now.
Since its basicly a money drain and still requires alot of.. fixing, with an ever decreasing playerbase, it makes perfect sense they well.. stopped trying.
Originally posted by Goldknyght but sometimes you need to take a step back and let it go for the community.
uh no.
I don't make decisions based on people who I don't know and who in the end do not (nor should they) have my best interest at heart. If that's the stand you want to take, why not "sometimes you have to step up and support it, for the sake of the community". That blade cuts both ways.
"well few others support it so I shouldn't support it either". I'm not a firm believer in letting the mob decide what I should play.
The company that initially botched Vangaurd, Sigil, is no longer in existence. I've heard all the tin foil hat conversations regarding Sony buying it so that it could die.
More than likely, Sony had mony into it and wanted to make that money back. They also wanted to boost their offerings on their Station pass.
Where sony fails in my eyes is that they should have put additonal money into the game just like any company would put money into a game and make the game a success. The game still has issues even years after its launch. And I agree, it's hard to ask players to pay for something that is not as smooth as many of the offerings on the market today.
So no, I don't think Vanguard can be saved by the players. or at least what is needed is a crticial mass of players who don't care about Vanguard's issues and are willing to flock en masse to the game. I just don't see that many people caring.
I could recommend it to a lot of people who play games but when they fire it up and start finding the little ideosyncratic bugs and quirks they are going to look at me like I'm nuts.
Going to Vanguard from, say, Lord of the Rings Online is like night and day as far as polish. And players are going to expect polish.
As Vanguard gets older and older it will have a more difficult time attracting people. I mean, look at games like DAoC or even original Everquest. They have loads of content and years of polish. And no one is rushing to play them.
I keep a Vanguard account because I am voting with wallet. And even though lately I don't have time to play I want to make sure that my one vote is heard. That a full world mmo is something that I want. Because we all know where full world mmo's seem to be going.
If you want to play the community card, how about "the community needs to start supporting, in earnest, games that embody more old school type of game play."
Because those people who don't like old school type of game play are swarming around games that they like and those are the games that are going to get noticed by other devs.
It's no accident that many recently released games have looked to WoW, good as it might be for some, for their inspiration.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Again...if the company that recieves the sub payment won't support the game, why in the hell would anyone else?
You're not "supporting" anything other than SOE's pocketbook. They could give a crap about you or your Vanguard account. SOE most certainly does NOT use your Vanguard sub money to support Vanguard.
By keeping your Vanguard account active, you're only suporting SOE's unethical practice of charging full price for a partial game, and you're supporting paying and rewarding SOE for letting this game rot.
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes had its 'make-or-break year' back in 2007.
It didn't make it.
It doesn't deserve any more than it has already received. SOE have been generous enough in keeping the game on life support for the past three years, and expecting them to do more for a game that will never amount to more than being one of the industry's biggest disappointments is heading into the realm of wishful thinking.
There is no more PVP to be found on the PVP server or I would still have a sub, even if it was to play once a month because I put in a lot of work for those twinks . ...
: (
If they did a server wipe on the PVP server and had a relaunch, that could bring back a lot of PVPers . .. as it is now it would be to join a PVP server to never see anyone ever but on occasion a twink . ..
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I honestly think switching to F2P would be best for Vanguard at this point. Like with DDO, once people are playing, they'll see the best qualities of the game and that will translate into money if done correctly.
This was what I've been thinking... for quite a long time. However, this is not a Turbine title, but SOE. I very much doubt SOE would do this right for Vanguard.
Again...if the company that recieves the sub payment won't support the game, why in the hell would anyone else?
You're not "supporting" anything other than SOE's pocketbook. They could give a crap about you or your Vanguard account. SOE most certainly does NOT use your Vanguard sub money to support Vanguard.
By keeping your Vanguard account active, you're only suporting SOE's unethical practice of charging full price for a partial game, and you're supporting paying and rewarding SOE for letting this game rot.
They do suport the game, even though the suport is limited. But they did stop really investing in additional content. There is a difference.
Its not like that they sell half expantions at full price (then patch in the missing content and pass it as free content) Like a certain large mmo is doing.
There still is a huge overhead just to keep the game running as it is, there is a minimum playerbase needed to bring in enough money just to keep it running. Chances are that they are barely making the minumum requires to be able to keep it running IF even that.
Everyone knows that more promotion, more content, expentions or what ever you can think of will not save the game anymore.
Again...if the company that recieves the sub payment won't support the game, why in the hell would anyone else?
You're not "supporting" anything other than SOE's pocketbook. They could give a crap about you or your Vanguard account. SOE most certainly does NOT use your Vanguard sub money to support Vanguard.
By keeping your Vanguard account active, you're only suporting SOE's unethical practice of charging full price for a partial game, and you're supporting paying and rewarding SOE for letting this game rot.
They do suport the game, even though the suport is limited. But they did stop really investing in additional content. There is a difference.
Its not like that they sell half expantions at full price (then patch in the missing content and pass it as free content) Like a certain large mmo is doing.
There still is a huge overhead just to keep the game running as it is, there is a minimum playerbase needed to bring in enough money just to keep it running. Chances are that they are barely making the minumum requires to be able to keep it running IF even that.
Everyone knows that more promotion, more content, expentions or what ever you can think of will not save the game anymore.
Huge overhead??
You're kidding, right?
By the end of the year this game will be down to 1 server and 3 employees working on the game. Where is the HUGE overhead? This is minimal by ANY standards.
And yet, SOE charges the same monthly sub price that is does for EQ and EQ2, which both are fully staffed, get constant updates, and several expansions (and yes, we pay for these but at least it is forward progress).
Look at it this way....if SOE were General Motors, they would be selling a used Saturn (bought it used from Brad McQuiad and Saturn is "no more" , so no support), for the same price as a brand new Cadillac.
Again...if the company that recieves the sub payment won't support the game, why in the hell would anyone else?
You're not "supporting" anything other than SOE's pocketbook. They could give a crap about you or your Vanguard account. SOE most certainly does NOT use your Vanguard sub money to support Vanguard.
By keeping your Vanguard account active, you're only suporting SOE's unethical practice of charging full price for a partial game, and you're supporting paying and rewarding SOE for letting this game rot.
They do suport the game, even though the suport is limited. But they did stop really investing in additional content. There is a difference.
Its not like that they sell half expantions at full price (then patch in the missing content and pass it as free content) Like a certain large mmo is doing.
There still is a huge overhead just to keep the game running as it is, there is a minimum playerbase needed to bring in enough money just to keep it running. Chances are that they are barely making the minumum requires to be able to keep it running IF even that.
Everyone knows that more promotion, more content, expentions or what ever you can think of will not save the game anymore.
Huge overhead??
You're kidding, right?
By the end of the year this game will be down to 1 server and 3 employees working on the game. Where is the HUGE overhead? This is minimal by ANY standards.
And yet, SOE charges the same monthly sub price that is does for EQ and EQ2, which both are fully staffed, get constant updates, and several expansions (and yes, we pay for these but at least it is forward progress).
And thats all the costs they have?
You are aware vg as it is costs more then its making right?
I could run a full cost list just to run servers but I see this is wasted on you.
The merging of servers and reducing staff isnt out of luxury. Anyone who learned basic math would understand this, you dont even require a basic understanding of finances.
Again...if the company that recieves the sub payment won't support the game, why in the hell would anyone else?
You're not "supporting" anything other than SOE's pocketbook. They could give a crap about you or your Vanguard account. SOE most certainly does NOT use your Vanguard sub money to support Vanguard.
By keeping your Vanguard account active, you're only suporting SOE's unethical practice of charging full price for a partial game, and you're supporting paying and rewarding SOE for letting this game rot.
They do suport the game, even though the suport is limited. But they did stop really investing in additional content. There is a difference.
Its not like that they sell half expantions at full price (then patch in the missing content and pass it as free content) Like a certain large mmo is doing.
There still is a huge overhead just to keep the game running as it is, there is a minimum playerbase needed to bring in enough money just to keep it running. Chances are that they are barely making the minumum requires to be able to keep it running IF even that.
Everyone knows that more promotion, more content, expentions or what ever you can think of will not save the game anymore.
Huge overhead??
You're kidding, right?
By the end of the year this game will be down to 1 server and 3 employees working on the game. Where is the HUGE overhead? This is minimal by ANY standards.
And yet, SOE charges the same monthly sub price that is does for EQ and EQ2, which both are fully staffed, get constant updates, and several expansions (and yes, we pay for these but at least it is forward progress).
And thats all the costs they have?
You are aware vg as it is costs more then its making right?
I could run a full cost list just to run servers but I see this is wasted on you.
The merging of servers and reducing staff isnt out of luxury. Anyone who learned basic math would understand this, you dont even require a basic understanding of finances.
Edited because I was being a smartass and it wasn't called for.
A f2p model would seem the very best option for saving Vanguard. I only played Vanguard a little bit, never got super far because I like to solo mostly. I did try to get friends to join with me one time but they didn't get into it, so much for attempt at getting to play a Blood Mage, hehe. I really like the concept of that class.
I would like to see Vanguard survive but as it has been stated, we got a flood of new MMOs coming out constantly. I get the feeling some of the older titles that didn't find immediate success are just going to get left behind whether they are good or not.
Look at it this way....if SOE were General Motors, they would be selling a used Saturn (bought it used from Brad McQuiad and Saturn is "no more" , so no support), for the same price as a brand new Cadillac.
And you're okay with this?
Flawed statement, you pay a significant lower price to buy the game now.
They are still maintaining a staff to perform maintainance as well as in and outgame help their customers.
But they are no longer investing in additional content.
So yeah, it is like general motors, they stopped trying to bring out new accesseries for you to buy.
You can still bring it in for maintainance and repairs.
Really the issue is is that vanguard just isnt a very appealing game to most people. The game just feels slow and sluggish and lacks a lot of charm. EQ1 was a slow game in some aspects too, but it had charm and character. VG does not, at least not to the level that games like EQ1 and WoW do. Telon may be more realistic than Azeroth or Norrath, but its just not captivating. There are some glimmers of life and character in VG, but its not enough. VG had some good ideas and some nice classes, but ultimately it just doesnt click for me, or for most that have tried it. it would take a lot to save it, and you can't blame SoE for not wanting to take that risk.
Originally posted by Goldknyght but sometimes you need to take a step back and let it go for the community.
uh no.
I don't make decisions based on people who I don't know and who in the end do not (nor should they) have my best interest at heart. If that's the stand you want to take, why not "sometimes you have to step up and support it, for the sake of the community". That blade cuts both ways.
So umm... You actually truely believe SoE and Sigil had your best interest at heart???!!! And I now sir place you in the 1% club because the other 99% of mmo players get it and you just dont.
Originally posted by Goldknyght but sometimes you need to take a step back and let it go for the community.
uh no.
I don't make decisions based on people who I don't know and who in the end do not (nor should they) have my best interest at heart. If that's the stand you want to take, why not "sometimes you have to step up and support it, for the sake of the community". That blade cuts both ways.
So umm... You actually truely believe SoE and Sigil had your best interest at heart???!!! And I now sir place you in the 1% club because the other 99% of mmo players get it and you just dont.
whoa, where are you getting that?
I said nothing about soe and sigil having my best interest at heart. They are a business. And in the case of Sony they are a publicly traded company which means their investors are who they need to please.
This is not an "us against them" scenario as it's s silly scenario. There really isn't an 'us' as I play games for my own enjoyment not because some other gamer out there feels that I need to take some sort of morale stand.
When I buy a game or play a game I don't think of all the nice people on these forums and whether or not what I am doing is furthering their interests.
And I highly doubt most people on these forums would do what the mob suggested if the mob suggested they do something that is antithetical to what they desire.
It boils down to this.
Companies make money with their products. If I like their products I buy them. If enough people buy their products then they might make more products in a similar vein. I get the idea of not enabling companies to put out half baked products. But that's a slippery slope. I've never played a game that didn't have some bugs and they usually are minor. If there are actual game breaking bugs then I'd call it a day and move elsewhere. I tried Vanguard at launch and it wasn't a fun experience. S I didn't give them more money. I tried it about a year and a half into it's life (about that) and it was a far better game, playable for me, and so I gave them my money. Companies should be rewarded for making good too. And as I said, the game was playable and fun for me.
as far as me supporting my community, I support my real community. I buy local when I can, support local farmers, frequent privately owned businesses before large Chain stores/restaurants.
That's really all I'm willing to do as far as community.
Otherwise it's going to be me following a lot of disgruntled (though in many cases they do have good reason) and vocal players and I won't be playing anything because my "community" feels that I shouldn't until something that they deem good comes along.
I think I'll just take my chances on my own tastes and preferences.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Make it F2P already. Or bundle it... subscribe to any SOE MMORPG and get Vanguard free!
The game isn't strong enough anymore to sustain itself on its own; time to get creative. Vanguard is actually my favorite EQ1 replacement game; I just can't see myself playing it with the limited number of subscribers (or paying for it), both of which could be fixed by a F2P model.
Vanguard was a good concept, problem was it needed more time in devleopment. But SOE being the huge greedy corperation they are wanted their money and so forced Sigil to launch. When it failed at launch they bought it off Sigil and took over the development.
And true to SOE form they killed it like they have done to every other MMO they own. Just got to look at SWG and EQ1 and 2, along with the Matrix.
Vanguard was a good concept, problem was it needed more time in devleopment. But SOE being the huge greedy corperation they are wanted their money and so forced Sigil to launch. When it failed at launch they bought it off Sigil and took over the development.
And true to SOE form they killed it like they have done to every other MMO they own. Just got to look at SWG and EQ1 and 2, along with the Matrix.
Why does everyone blame SoE that picked it up AFTER the failed launch?
How is EQ1 and EQ II being killed by SoE? I played EQ1 from like 1999 to 2001 (wish things personally didn't change that contributed to not playing), and played EQ II two weeks after launch and off/on for close to 6 years.
Comments
While I personally agree that SOE has essentially abandoned Vanguard, I would expect a supposedly "neutral" gaming news site to write a far more reasoned story than this. This is the kind of thing you read in the Vanguard forums, and for which an "I hate SOE" thread was deliberately stickied so these types of rants can all go in there.
The truth of the matter is Vanguard only runs on higher-end gaming-specific machines. Even with every graphic setting as low as you can go, unless you've got a dedicated grapics card designed for computer gaming, Vanguard is a lag-fest. With that in mind, it's within the realm of possibility that SOE is shelving Vanguard until everyday computer technology catches up to the system requirements of the game for casual players. That theory is just as valid, and far more likely, than the author's ridiculous contention that SOE bought Vanguard to kill it to protect Everquest 2 (or whatever the current conspiracy theory du jour is).
And as someone who recently tried Vanguard, I totally understand that the game simply is not going to appeal to everybody. While Vanguard's world may be vast, nothing looks terribly innovative if you're just going into the game today. What's more, some of the game's more unique features require a bit of a learning curve, and others (like their death penalty) are just very unpopular and "un-fun". I know, it's great for hardcore gamers, but not everyone who likes and pays for MMOs is "hardcore".
Given all the challenges the very game itself poses for the random player who picks up the trial, I don't know how many people will end up sticking it out for the "vastness" of Vanguard.
But the big problem here was this entry wouldn't have even been tolerated in the Vanguard-specific forum here. Yet it makes the front page? That's just an embarrassment.
You do realize when I purchased my handy box that was vanguard it says SoE. Yeah i know who developed it and SoE should of did what Microsoft did and Dumped this pile because they knew CEO of Sigil was a complete dufus when he made this game. He wasnt making head way on the game so they dumbed his ass. SoE being that they might of owed Brad i think it is was the owner of Sigil a favor for the sucess EQ1 had so they took a gamble on him. But Sigil was still BSing and SoE being SoE released the pile that was VG at launch. And since SoE were the ones behind the LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH agenda its SoE's Fault just as much as its Sigil. Hence me saying Developers(sigil)/Publishers(SoE) think they can just release any pile of crap and people will still pay. We should of Boycotted SoE so they know the next time they decided to publish a damn pile they will know better. But they wont because VANGUARD IS STILL ALIVE. and Developers like Sigil know they can just make a game thats 60% done and still make a profit when they release it. Yeah they wont make any future profits but they made a little profit after launch.
As to SoE neglecting VG they were just being Capitolistic n nature and Earned there little bit of profits at launch heard all the negative things about it once it did launch and made the decesion to just not waste any more money on the game that they helped get released. They moved it into the catagory of If VG makes money we will spend it if the numbers just keep dying we will MILK IT FOR ALL ITS WORTH and let it die. Guess which one they choose VGBoi/Gurls???!!!
Vanguard is worth saving. They should bring out an expansion pack like the Hall of shattered souls.
I see a lot of negative feedback probably from WOW players who love cartoon graphics and chi com gold selling.
I think your problem is not WoW players, but EQ2 players that would like to see Vanguard die and more focus on EQ2.
Easy, at release SOE putted time and efford into getting the game to a level of stability to become actual playeble, the game was very unstable.
They brought it to a playeble level. They did invest in adding content.
Despite their effords people kept on leaving, granted they could have spent more time and efford on promotion but at the time, fixing the game was more important.
Without SOE the game wouldnt come as far as it is now.
Since its basicly a money drain and still requires alot of.. fixing, with an ever decreasing playerbase, it makes perfect sense they well.. stopped trying.
So thank you microsoft!
uh no.
I don't make decisions based on people who I don't know and who in the end do not (nor should they) have my best interest at heart. If that's the stand you want to take, why not "sometimes you have to step up and support it, for the sake of the community". That blade cuts both ways.
"well few others support it so I shouldn't support it either". I'm not a firm believer in letting the mob decide what I should play.
The company that initially botched Vangaurd, Sigil, is no longer in existence. I've heard all the tin foil hat conversations regarding Sony buying it so that it could die.
More than likely, Sony had mony into it and wanted to make that money back. They also wanted to boost their offerings on their Station pass.
Where sony fails in my eyes is that they should have put additonal money into the game just like any company would put money into a game and make the game a success. The game still has issues even years after its launch. And I agree, it's hard to ask players to pay for something that is not as smooth as many of the offerings on the market today.
So no, I don't think Vanguard can be saved by the players. or at least what is needed is a crticial mass of players who don't care about Vanguard's issues and are willing to flock en masse to the game. I just don't see that many people caring.
I could recommend it to a lot of people who play games but when they fire it up and start finding the little ideosyncratic bugs and quirks they are going to look at me like I'm nuts.
Going to Vanguard from, say, Lord of the Rings Online is like night and day as far as polish. And players are going to expect polish.
As Vanguard gets older and older it will have a more difficult time attracting people. I mean, look at games like DAoC or even original Everquest. They have loads of content and years of polish. And no one is rushing to play them.
I keep a Vanguard account because I am voting with wallet. And even though lately I don't have time to play I want to make sure that my one vote is heard. That a full world mmo is something that I want. Because we all know where full world mmo's seem to be going.
If you want to play the community card, how about "the community needs to start supporting, in earnest, games that embody more old school type of game play."
Because those people who don't like old school type of game play are swarming around games that they like and those are the games that are going to get noticed by other devs.
It's no accident that many recently released games have looked to WoW, good as it might be for some, for their inspiration.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Again...if the company that recieves the sub payment won't support the game, why in the hell would anyone else?
You're not "supporting" anything other than SOE's pocketbook. They could give a crap about you or your Vanguard account. SOE most certainly does NOT use your Vanguard sub money to support Vanguard.
By keeping your Vanguard account active, you're only suporting SOE's unethical practice of charging full price for a partial game, and you're supporting paying and rewarding SOE for letting this game rot.
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes had its 'make-or-break year' back in 2007.
It didn't make it.
It doesn't deserve any more than it has already received. SOE have been generous enough in keeping the game on life support for the past three years, and expecting them to do more for a game that will never amount to more than being one of the industry's biggest disappointments is heading into the realm of wishful thinking.
There is no more PVP to be found on the PVP server or I would still have a sub, even if it was to play once a month because I put in a lot of work for those twinks . ...
: (
If they did a server wipe on the PVP server and had a relaunch, that could bring back a lot of PVPers . .. as it is now it would be to join a PVP server to never see anyone ever but on occasion a twink . ..
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This was what I've been thinking... for quite a long time. However, this is not a Turbine title, but SOE. I very much doubt SOE would do this right for Vanguard.
They do suport the game, even though the suport is limited. But they did stop really investing in additional content. There is a difference.
Its not like that they sell half expantions at full price (then patch in the missing content and pass it as free content) Like a certain large mmo is doing.
There still is a huge overhead just to keep the game running as it is, there is a minimum playerbase needed to bring in enough money just to keep it running. Chances are that they are barely making the minumum requires to be able to keep it running IF even that.
Everyone knows that more promotion, more content, expentions or what ever you can think of will not save the game anymore.
Huge overhead??
You're kidding, right?
By the end of the year this game will be down to 1 server and 3 employees working on the game. Where is the HUGE overhead? This is minimal by ANY standards.
And yet, SOE charges the same monthly sub price that is does for EQ and EQ2, which both are fully staffed, get constant updates, and several expansions (and yes, we pay for these but at least it is forward progress).
Look at it this way....if SOE were General Motors, they would be selling a used Saturn (bought it used from Brad McQuiad and Saturn is "no more" , so no support), for the same price as a brand new Cadillac.
And you're okay with this?
And thats all the costs they have?
You are aware vg as it is costs more then its making right?
I could run a full cost list just to run servers but I see this is wasted on you.
The merging of servers and reducing staff isnt out of luxury. Anyone who learned basic math would understand this, you dont even require a basic understanding of finances.
Edited because I was being a smartass and it wasn't called for.
A f2p model would seem the very best option for saving Vanguard. I only played Vanguard a little bit, never got super far because I like to solo mostly. I did try to get friends to join with me one time but they didn't get into it, so much for attempt at getting to play a Blood Mage, hehe. I really like the concept of that class.
I would like to see Vanguard survive but as it has been stated, we got a flood of new MMOs coming out constantly. I get the feeling some of the older titles that didn't find immediate success are just going to get left behind whether they are good or not.
Flawed statement, you pay a significant lower price to buy the game now.
They are still maintaining a staff to perform maintainance as well as in and outgame help their customers.
But they are no longer investing in additional content.
So yeah, it is like general motors, they stopped trying to bring out new accesseries for you to buy.
You can still bring it in for maintainance and repairs.
Right. You got it! Everyone is always bitching in EQ2, wow we never get any content, it must be VG's fault! Close it down!(/sarcasm)
So umm... You actually truely believe SoE and Sigil had your best interest at heart???!!! And I now sir place you in the 1% club because the other 99% of mmo players get it and you just dont.
whoa, where are you getting that?
I said nothing about soe and sigil having my best interest at heart. They are a business. And in the case of Sony they are a publicly traded company which means their investors are who they need to please.
This is not an "us against them" scenario as it's s silly scenario. There really isn't an 'us' as I play games for my own enjoyment not because some other gamer out there feels that I need to take some sort of morale stand.
When I buy a game or play a game I don't think of all the nice people on these forums and whether or not what I am doing is furthering their interests.
And I highly doubt most people on these forums would do what the mob suggested if the mob suggested they do something that is antithetical to what they desire.
It boils down to this.
Companies make money with their products. If I like their products I buy them. If enough people buy their products then they might make more products in a similar vein. I get the idea of not enabling companies to put out half baked products. But that's a slippery slope. I've never played a game that didn't have some bugs and they usually are minor. If there are actual game breaking bugs then I'd call it a day and move elsewhere. I tried Vanguard at launch and it wasn't a fun experience. S I didn't give them more money. I tried it about a year and a half into it's life (about that) and it was a far better game, playable for me, and so I gave them my money. Companies should be rewarded for making good too. And as I said, the game was playable and fun for me.
as far as me supporting my community, I support my real community. I buy local when I can, support local farmers, frequent privately owned businesses before large Chain stores/restaurants.
That's really all I'm willing to do as far as community.
Otherwise it's going to be me following a lot of disgruntled (though in many cases they do have good reason) and vocal players and I won't be playing anything because my "community" feels that I shouldn't until something that they deem good comes along.
I think I'll just take my chances on my own tastes and preferences.
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You think EQ II players (I am one) even care if it exists, which I don't (more needing the time/money).
You also assume EQ II dev's split their time to limited Vanguard support.
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Make it F2P already. Or bundle it... subscribe to any SOE MMORPG and get Vanguard free!
The game isn't strong enough anymore to sustain itself on its own; time to get creative. Vanguard is actually my favorite EQ1 replacement game; I just can't see myself playing it with the limited number of subscribers (or paying for it), both of which could be fixed by a F2P model.
Vanguard was a good concept, problem was it needed more time in devleopment. But SOE being the huge greedy corperation they are wanted their money and so forced Sigil to launch. When it failed at launch they bought it off Sigil and took over the development.
And true to SOE form they killed it like they have done to every other MMO they own. Just got to look at SWG and EQ1 and 2, along with the Matrix.
Why does everyone blame SoE that picked it up AFTER the failed launch?
How is EQ1 and EQ II being killed by SoE? I played EQ1 from like 1999 to 2001 (wish things personally didn't change that contributed to not playing), and played EQ II two weeks after launch and off/on for close to 6 years.
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