I will gladly work to promote Vanguard's rebirth, however the real cure in my opinion requires a stand alone expansion pack. In otherwords, a relaunch with the idea that its Vanguard 2.0 but with some changes and new content. During the period between the relaunch expansion, make Vanguard free like Shadow Bane was and encourage that viral promotion. People will flock to a game that is free. With the relaunch, you can rebuy the client and have a new stand alone client, a reborn Vanguard.
Also, they should take some notes from Fallen Earth, which managed to continue to grab subscribers with all sorts of special offers, events,trials ...ect.
I would love to come back to Vanguard but wont unless we can get that population up.
Also I firmly believe there needs to be world pvp. I know there is a set of hard core anti-pvpers who snobbishly have claimed the game, but they are one of the reasons I left not long after launch, along with all the problems. World pvp can easily be accomplished by having factions to join, and the factions will have allies and enemy faction. Being a member of a faction will allow pvp to happen. If you are not in a faction, you dont have to worry about being attacked. It creates an optional means to create player vs player play while leaving the pve only lovers to continue doing what they do.
Also forgot to add: The original plan was for Vanguard to get upgraded to unreal engine 3 through out its life cycle, it is still possible and can play a part in that "relaunch".
Its been said many times and I will say it again. SOE will never ever ever ever sell Vanguard to another company or put any money into it. The only reason they took it was so that they could stuff it deep in a closet somewhere and let it die a slow death. Vanguard was an increadible threat to EQ2 and SOE knew it. So, being a business, SOE did the smart thing (for them) and bought Vanguard before any other company that might actually give Vanguard the resources it needed to truly shine.
Vanguard is right where SOE wants it to be.
I also will not be surprised if the next big mmo put out by SOE has some rather familure features that Vanguard has.
Despite what the Vanguard community may think, Vanguard was never a threat to EQ2, as the game appeals to two completely different audiences. Vanguard was designed to appeal to the old school Everquest player while EQ2 was designed to appeal to a more casual fanbase that wants something a little more in depth than World of Warcraft. Many former Everquest players continue to play Everquest II, but EQ2 was never meant to suck subscribers away from the original as they are completely different games with completely a completely different take on the mmorpg genre.
You are aware that McQuaid went to SOE and not the other way around right? McQuaid went to SOE for financial backing and to find a new publisher with the agreement that SOE would have no real say in the direction of the product. Sigil had to release the product when they did because they no longer had money to fund the project, hence they folded soon after the game released. SOE took over because, as mentioned already, they were the publisher, the game looked good on the station pass, and while rough around the edges, it was a quality product. The problem was that there were simply too many bugs to fix for the small team of developers and players were leaving too rapidly. Vanguard doesn't get any funding now because it would be ignorant from a financial standpoint to poor money into an unproven product when the company already has at least two or three stable, moderately successful products in which the money can be better spent. Be lucky that SOE took over the reigns of Vanguard like they did, as otherwise the game would have died or it would have been bought by a company with little to no resources, and it would recieve just as much if not less attention than it has under SOE.
The fact of the matter is that Brad McQuaid and Sigil simply were not equipped to handle a game of the size and scope of Vanguard, and they paid for it.
If you push a game live that is broken and missing advertised features, then revamp it in ways the players don't want, then refuse to support it; it's gonna die. Players doing back flips to try to keep it alive, and make SOE some cash, just enables bad management imo.
I'm not in favour of pulling SOE's fat out of the fire every time they butcher another MMO. Maybe they would do better to examine their muliple failures (Matrix online, StarWars Galaxies, Vanguard etc.) and learn a few lessons.
The lessons are pretty obvious from the first paragraph, but just in case SOE execs can't spot them:
-don't push games live that are badly broken and missing advertised features,
-don't revamp the game in ways the players don't want,
-don't expect a game to do well with little or no development support,
-don't expect a large number of players to do your work for you and pay for "your" (cough, their own) efforts.
If players want to do some development and grassroots networking, there are plenty of open-source MMO projects to go around. If SOE won't develop and support good games, fine. Who needs them?
Each of us can only speculate what sony will do. Some of us will be closer to the mark than others. I have never viewed it as competition to any of Sony's other games. I have not really heard anyone that actually plays VG suggested that they had thought that either. Not in the beginning and not now. It does not matter if we think sony might relaunch, pay attention, put an expansion out, or not. It is unlikely, but crazier things have happened. We are not blind and it is not bad to be hopeful as long as you plan for contigencies. Still, any of those things would be exciting and I would be a very happy girl! I would / I am definitly sticking around and enjoying myself with the great company of my other VG friends to see what happens one way or another. We have made plans that we can stay together no matter the outcome, but we are certainly going to have lots of fun in VG. I am going to have a great time while it is available to me and not miss out on that opportinity.
SOE didn't even make Vanguard, but you can bet they are blamed for it's problems. If you really don't remember such recent history, let me remind you that *Sigil Entertainment* made the game with funding from Microsoft Game Studios, and they failed to provide anything of note after years of being on payroll. Once they got the money pulled out from under them is when production on the game really started, and by then it was too late, and they had the famous parking lot firings.
SOE bought the game, realized it was too late to salvage, and gave it a skeleton crew -what else can be expected with how this game even came to be, and the notoriety behind it - that you seem to forget and place solely on SOE - much like how nobody even questions Lucasarts' involvement in the NGE. It was their IP after all, you can't change something like that on a whim, it was most likely a request by the owner of the IP itself. Of course SOE has to burn for it though.
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SOE didn't even make Vanguard, but you can bet they are blamed for it's problems. If you really don't remember such recent history, let me remind you that *Sigil Entertainment* made the game with funding from Microsoft Game Studios, and they failed to provide anything of note after years of being on payroll. Once they got the money pulled out from under them is when production on the game really started, and by then it was too late, and they had the famous parking lot firings.
SOE bought the game, realized it was too late to salvage, and gave it a skeleton crew -what else can be expected with how this game even came to be, and the notoriety behind it - that you seem to forget and place solely on SOE - much like how nobody even questions Lucasarts' involvement in the NGE. It was their IP after all, you can't change something like that on a whim, it was most likely a request by the owner of the IP itself. Of course SOE has to burn for it though.
When SOE is the producer of Vanguard they are not at fault, because sigil is developing the game. When soe is developing starwars they are not at fault, because it was most likley the producers making changes. How exactly is that possible?
Do you really think soe had no idea what condition vanguard was in before they bought it and only then realized it might be a project that was beyond repair?
Perhaps the fact that Microsoft dropped the project should have been the first clue to SOE that funding a failed project without making necessary changes would just continue the failure.
All things said and done, soe did pretty well on the failure of vanguard didn't they? Sigil lost out, Microsoft lost out, 200k players lost out, but soe sure got a lot out of the deal.
Because SoE was their publisher and forced them out 6-8 months earlier than originally promised to Sigil, and made them launch a week after WoW's first expansion.
I wont say SoE forced them Sigil could of had some back bone and said its not ready. Sigil also wanted to launch it because they werent going to get anymore funding to continue this pile. So whats fastest way to get revenue? launch the title yeah its crap but you will get that inital 200k at 50 bucks a pop. Get the intial 10mil from that u know ur player base is going to drop to 10k. Then 15 x 10k then times that by 36months. Damn 5.4million How is this game afloat still??? didnt this game cost 60mil to make. Microsoft got burned but least there name isnt associated with this pile.
SOE cut funding to sigil and that forced sigil to release. Sigil did not want to release in the least bit.
Nor was sigil going to see 100% of the money from the box sales. SOE was going to get its cut. Retail stores were going to get their cut. Sigil would be lucky to see a few million of that 10 million in sales once everyone was paid.
Not to mention sigil had a $30 million dollar debt to pay off, but you keep thinking they made tons of money.
5.4 whole million dollars in the first year. Hrmm...
SOE didn't even make Vanguard, but you can bet they are blamed for it's problems. If you really don't remember such recent history, let me remind you that *Sigil Entertainment* made the game with funding from Microsoft Game Studios, and they failed to provide anything of note after years of being on payroll. Once they got the money pulled out from under them is when production on the game really started, and by then it was too late, and they had the famous parking lot firings.
SOE bought the game, realized it was too late to salvage, and gave it a skeleton crew -what else can be expected with how this game even came to be, and the notoriety behind it - that you seem to forget and place solely on SOE - much like how nobody even questions Lucasarts' involvement in the NGE. It was their IP after all, you can't change something like that on a whim, it was most likely a request by the owner of the IP itself. Of course SOE has to burn for it though.
When SOE is the producer of Vanguard they are not at fault, because sigil is developing the game. When soe is developing starwars they are not at fault, because it was most likley the producers making changes. How exactly is that possible?
Do you really think soe had no idea what condition vanguard was in before they bought it and only then realized it might be a project that was beyond repair?
Perhaps the fact that Microsoft dropped the project should have been the first clue to SOE that funding a failed project without making necessary changes would just continue the failure.
All things said and done, soe did pretty well on the failure of vanguard didn't they? Sigil lost out, Microsoft lost out, 200k players lost out, but soe sure got a lot out of the deal.
Sigil had no money, and after two publishers poured loads of cash into what was still a buggy mess after years and years of development, they had no choice. SOE is a business, and as a business, their sole priority is not to fund the pet projects of old school MMORPG fans.
The case with SWG is the idea that the orders for the NGE came down from Lucas Arts in an attempt to attract subscribers to a game which was absolutely bleeding dollars. Lucas Arts had the power to change the direction of the game they were publishing, and SOE did not.
You people have completely lost touch with reaiity. Microsoft funded Sigil because they split from SOE, then they stopped funding them and SOE bought them out. Go read a news report on it or something, but seriously, it's not so long ago that anyone should forget or alter the facts as to what happened.
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I am sorry but Vanguard's website is not doing the game any favors. I was thinking of doing the free trial last week, went onto the website to get information on the game, and found nothing useful. And when I say 'useful' what I mean is the following:
Videos
Class Listing, if no classes, skill listing
Races
Is there pvp?
There is not even a FAQ
Under "Characters" it shows me a character of the day. Nothing on the potential how to make my own character. The guilds section gives me a list of guilds. Really, the website is nothing more than a community center, which is fine for the established players, but does nothing to entice me. It gives me no idea of what the game is, what I can do, and what I should look forward to.
Needless to say, I am not going to waste time jumping into a game if it cant give me some basic idea of what I could potentially do there.
could'nt agree more. i went to website and found no basic information or anything else for that matter to entice me to the game.
live long and prosper strength and honor
if urgent do it yourself if you have time-delegate it if you have forever-form a committee
You people have completely lost touch with reaiity. Microsoft funded Sigil because they split from SOE, then they stopped funding them and SOE bought them out. Go read a news report on it or something, but seriously, it's not so long ago that anyone should forget or alter the facts as to what happened.
Sigil was not bought out by SOE until after the release of Vanguard and after the company folded.
Vanguard is the first game I have gotten this attached to since playing Asheron's Call years ago, and it would be a shame if this outstanding game only became another footnote in MMO history. I have played on and off since mid-2007. There are times when this game breaks my heart, and times it lifts my soul.
Vanguard had a lot of problems in the past, and Vanguard is not devoid of problems today, yet there is still something very very "special" and wonderful about this game, that no other MMO on the market has for me.
This is the one game that I would probably break down and cry over, were it ever closed down for good.
Sigil had no money, and after two publishers poured loads of cash into what was still a buggy mess after years and years of development, they had no choice. SOE is a business, and as a business, their sole priority is not to fund the pet projects of old school MMORPG fans.
The case with SWG is the idea that the orders for the NGE came down from Lucas Arts in an attempt to attract subscribers to a game which was absolutely bleeding dollars. Lucas Arts had the power to change the direction of the game they were publishing, and SOE did not.
Since SOE had ALL the money in the deal with Sigil so they could have made Sigil agree to whatever terms they wanted. Since Sigil had no bargaining power in the contract, there is little they could do. As the saying goes, he with the gold makes the rules.
I'm not saying sigil didn't fail to get their job done, but soe funded a known failure and didn't force sigil to correct their mistakes. No company could be stupid enough to expect the trainwreck of sigil to self correct and somehow become a success. Then soe cut funding when the game was nearing completion, scooped up the remains of a mostly completed game, hired the best staff (moving the very best to non-vanguard projects) and then game vanguard players free EQ2 time to entice them away from the game.
Soe never wanted the game to succeed. If they had the money to buy the company they had the money to fund the game to completion like they said they were committed to.
Oh as for the NGE, several SOE developers admitted it was their idea and they had to campaign to get the idea approved. Not to mention that massive combat revamps are a hallmark of what soe thinks will turn their games around. See EQ2/Matrix/Free Realms for non lucas arts revamps.
i dont think we can save this game SOE make crap game with bug i left everquest 2 because the game have bugs and lags as hell and since the shader 3.0
Shader 3.0 lol it make your character completly black and if u dont have any real friend to play with u skip 60% of the game its like imposible to find a group and the Looking for group tool is totaly dead
SOE did is time now its time to close the door or turn free to play should be a option but with all new mmogs that are announced lol and with all bad things about them i dont think any games from SOE could survive
i had a very bad experience with Everquest 2 and same with vanguard i now play AION and i enjoy the game
with all bad experience i had with SOE i will never buy or paye a game with the SOE logo
Author states: "SoE is a business and must operate within the confines of such."
Recommended course of action by author: "Mass petitions to SoE".
Welcome Mr. Dreams. Please meet Mr. Reality...
Well, it's possible I suppose.
I mean, family guy was cancelled how many times? And people writing in as well as dvd sales convinced them to bring it back.
of course, that would mean Vanguard would have to at least increase in numbers enough to back up those petitions.
In the end what i see from game companies is that they put out a game, back it with as much as they can for a small bit and then they move on.
The two games that I can think of that arent' like this are WoW and EVE. Turbine seems to do this though I can't speak for Asheron's call.
That's why I really respect CCP. They are in the business to make EVE great and at the moment, EVE is their only business. Even with Dust and the Vampire/Werewolf game they are working on, Dust ties into eve and the vampire game seems like they are diversifying.
But other companies seem to be in the business of making games. They make one and move on, make one, move on.
NC Soft does this as well. not that they completely leave the game in a lurch but they just seem to be more about making games than makine "a" game as great as they can.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Author states: "SoE is a business and must operate within the confines of such."
Recommended course of action by author: "Mass petitions to SoE".
Welcome Mr. Dreams. Please meet Mr. Reality...
Well, it's possible I suppose.
I mean, family guy was cancelled how many times? And people writing in as well as dvd sales convinced them to bring it back.
of course, that would mean Vanguard would have to at least increase in numbers enough to back up those petitions.
In the end what i see from game companies is that they put out a game, back it with as much as they can for a small bit and then they move on.
The two games that I can think of that arent' like this are WoW and EVE. Turbine seems to do this though I can't speak for Asheron's call.
That's why I really respect CCP. They are in the business to make EVE great and at the moment, EVE is their only business. Even with Dust and the Vampire/Werewolf game they are working on, Dust ties into eve and the vampire game seems like they are diversifying.
But other companies seem to be in the business of making games. They make one and move on, make one, move on.
NC Soft does this as well. not that they completely leave the game in a lurch but they just seem to be more about making games than makine "a" game as great as they can.
I liked the idea of Vanguard. Gave it a good 2 years to fix it's bugs. Bought the box and didn't last the 30 day trial. All I have to say is..
Oh Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling From glen to glen, and down the mountain side The summer's gone, and all the flowers are dying 'Tis you, 'tis you must go and I must bide. But come ye back when summer's in the meadow Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow 'Tis I'll be here in sunshine or in shadow Oh Danny boy, oh Danny boy, I love you so.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Sigil had no money, and after two publishers poured loads of cash into what was still a buggy mess after years and years of development, they had no choice. SOE is a business, and as a business, their sole priority is not to fund the pet projects of old school MMORPG fans.
The case with SWG is the idea that the orders for the NGE came down from Lucas Arts in an attempt to attract subscribers to a game which was absolutely bleeding dollars. Lucas Arts had the power to change the direction of the game they were publishing, and SOE did not.
Since SOE had ALL the money in the deal with Sigil so they could have made Sigil agree to whatever terms they wanted. Since Sigil had no bargaining power in the contract, there is little they could do. As the saying goes, he with the gold makes the rules.
I'm not saying sigil didn't fail to get their job done, but soe funded a known failure and didn't force sigil to correct their mistakes. No company could be stupid enough to expect the trainwreck of sigil to self correct and somehow become a success. Then soe cut funding when the game was nearing completion, scooped up the remains of a mostly completed game, hired the best staff (moving the very best to non-vanguard projects) and then game vanguard players free EQ2 time to entice them away from the game.
Soe never wanted the game to succeed. If they had the money to buy the company they had the money to fund the game to completion like they said they were committed to.
Oh as for the NGE, several SOE developers admitted it was their idea and they had to campaign to get the idea approved. Not to mention that massive combat revamps are a hallmark of what soe thinks will turn their games around. See EQ2/Matrix/Free Realms for non lucas arts revamps.
The game was not near completion. It launched with an entire continent unfinished in addition to MOUNTAINS of bugs. Even three years later, the game still plays more like a beta test than a finished product. Sigil owed money to Microsoft from the previous partnership and had to release it at this point. Expecting SOE to pick up the tab for Sigil's debt is laughable. SOE salvaged what they could, and at least at launch, Vanguard was given a somewhat large development team with around 50 former Sigil employees. They fixed bugs and added content, but the problem was the game was still a buggy mess. People left and continuing to fully fund a failing MMORPG simply wasn't in SOE's plans. Even their flagship title suffers from a lack of dev support compared to the game at launch. Neither game was as successful as SOE or Sigil had planned, and as a result, SOE doesn't have mountains of cash to spend on paying developers to add new content and to polish bugs. The difference is that while EQ2 is a moderate success, Vanguard is a failure. It failed at launch and continued loosing subscriber after subscriber. EQ2 went through a period of server merges and population issues, but as the game began to gain subscribers, it gained content. Games with a healthy playerbase get bug fixes and content. Dying mmorpgs get put on life support. I realize Vanguard is precious to you, but the blame falls on Sigil for attempting to develop a game beyond the scope of their abilities and not SOE for simply running their company as a business should.
The conspiracy theory idea is absolutely ridiculous. SOE is in the business to make a profit, and ingesting millions of dollars into an unproven product simply is not the way to run a business. If Vanguard was bug free and ready for release upon the time of the SOE takeover, SOE would not care what game is making them a profit because a profit is being made. If Vanguard had a sizable playerbase, and SOE was taking in large amounts of revenue from them, they would develop more content for Vanguard to placate the existing playerbase or to attract even more players. Vanguard is not making SOE any money, and resources are better spent funding projects that are actually going to make SOE a profit. SOE is not under the leadership of a bunch of twelve year olds who are mad at Sigil because they think SIgil's game is better than their's is, and the entire idea is laughable. Throughout the history of this laughable excuse, there has not been one single shred of evidence that SOE did, in fact, choke the life out of Vanguard to fluff the subsciber numbers of their flagship title, and the only defense is usually nothing more than bitter vanbois grasping at straws by doing taking offense to such things as SOE having the audacity to run free EQ2 trials for former players among other things. Seriously, stop the conspiracy crap, take a walk outside of your basement, and face reality.
Vanguard needs to come up with something that no other game has that appeals to the masses.
No offense, but I stopped reading there.
Vanguard has never been a game for the masses, and that's one reason people love it so much. It's not a dumbed down arcade adventure for all the 10 minute WoW gamers to have fun with. Vanguard already has plenty in it that no other games have, like the diplomacy, a game with aboslutely no load screens that you can literally fly through, and one of the best crafting systems around.
The game is sound as it is. What it needs, is a company to support it.
Vanguard was originally intended to be a game for the masses. That is the business model behind a mmo.
Appealing to the masses is the business model of games like WoW or FreeRealms. Vanguard was always designed to be a far deeper, far less casual game than those, and thus, was not a game to appeal to the masses.
It had a harsh death penalty, large leveling curves, no instances, a complex crafting system, few fast travel options. These things do not have mass appeal. Mass market players don't want immersive virtual worlds, they want WoW arcades.
Comments
I will gladly work to promote Vanguard's rebirth, however the real cure in my opinion requires a stand alone expansion pack. In otherwords, a relaunch with the idea that its Vanguard 2.0 but with some changes and new content. During the period between the relaunch expansion, make Vanguard free like Shadow Bane was and encourage that viral promotion. People will flock to a game that is free. With the relaunch, you can rebuy the client and have a new stand alone client, a reborn Vanguard.
Also, they should take some notes from Fallen Earth, which managed to continue to grab subscribers with all sorts of special offers, events,trials ...ect.
I would love to come back to Vanguard but wont unless we can get that population up.
Also I firmly believe there needs to be world pvp. I know there is a set of hard core anti-pvpers who snobbishly have claimed the game, but they are one of the reasons I left not long after launch, along with all the problems. World pvp can easily be accomplished by having factions to join, and the factions will have allies and enemy faction. Being a member of a faction will allow pvp to happen. If you are not in a faction, you dont have to worry about being attacked. It creates an optional means to create player vs player play while leaving the pve only lovers to continue doing what they do.
Also forgot to add: The original plan was for Vanguard to get upgraded to unreal engine 3 through out its life cycle, it is still possible and can play a part in that "relaunch".
Oh how I'd love to go back and play my monk. Not the best class in VG, but it was very fun, almost as fun as my EQ1 monk.
Despite what the Vanguard community may think, Vanguard was never a threat to EQ2, as the game appeals to two completely different audiences. Vanguard was designed to appeal to the old school Everquest player while EQ2 was designed to appeal to a more casual fanbase that wants something a little more in depth than World of Warcraft. Many former Everquest players continue to play Everquest II, but EQ2 was never meant to suck subscribers away from the original as they are completely different games with completely a completely different take on the mmorpg genre.
You are aware that McQuaid went to SOE and not the other way around right? McQuaid went to SOE for financial backing and to find a new publisher with the agreement that SOE would have no real say in the direction of the product. Sigil had to release the product when they did because they no longer had money to fund the project, hence they folded soon after the game released. SOE took over because, as mentioned already, they were the publisher, the game looked good on the station pass, and while rough around the edges, it was a quality product. The problem was that there were simply too many bugs to fix for the small team of developers and players were leaving too rapidly. Vanguard doesn't get any funding now because it would be ignorant from a financial standpoint to poor money into an unproven product when the company already has at least two or three stable, moderately successful products in which the money can be better spent. Be lucky that SOE took over the reigns of Vanguard like they did, as otherwise the game would have died or it would have been bought by a company with little to no resources, and it would recieve just as much if not less attention than it has under SOE.
The fact of the matter is that Brad McQuaid and Sigil simply were not equipped to handle a game of the size and scope of Vanguard, and they paid for it.
If you push a game live that is broken and missing advertised features, then revamp it in ways the players don't want, then refuse to support it; it's gonna die. Players doing back flips to try to keep it alive, and make SOE some cash, just enables bad management imo.
I'm not in favour of pulling SOE's fat out of the fire every time they butcher another MMO. Maybe they would do better to examine their muliple failures (Matrix online, StarWars Galaxies, Vanguard etc.) and learn a few lessons.
The lessons are pretty obvious from the first paragraph, but just in case SOE execs can't spot them:
-don't push games live that are badly broken and missing advertised features,
-don't revamp the game in ways the players don't want,
-don't expect a game to do well with little or no development support,
-don't expect a large number of players to do your work for you and pay for "your" (cough, their own) efforts.
If players want to do some development and grassroots networking, there are plenty of open-source MMO projects to go around. If SOE won't develop and support good games, fine. Who needs them?
Each of us can only speculate what sony will do. Some of us will be closer to the mark than others. I have never viewed it as competition to any of Sony's other games. I have not really heard anyone that actually plays VG suggested that they had thought that either. Not in the beginning and not now. It does not matter if we think sony might relaunch, pay attention, put an expansion out, or not. It is unlikely, but crazier things have happened. We are not blind and it is not bad to be hopeful as long as you plan for contigencies. Still, any of those things would be exciting and I would be a very happy girl! I would / I am definitly sticking around and enjoying myself with the great company of my other VG friends to see what happens one way or another. We have made plans that we can stay together no matter the outcome, but we are certainly going to have lots of fun in VG. I am going to have a great time while it is available to me and not miss out on that opportinity.
SOE ppppppfffffffff ....right
SOE didn't even make Vanguard, but you can bet they are blamed for it's problems. If you really don't remember such recent history, let me remind you that *Sigil Entertainment* made the game with funding from Microsoft Game Studios, and they failed to provide anything of note after years of being on payroll. Once they got the money pulled out from under them is when production on the game really started, and by then it was too late, and they had the famous parking lot firings.
SOE bought the game, realized it was too late to salvage, and gave it a skeleton crew -what else can be expected with how this game even came to be, and the notoriety behind it - that you seem to forget and place solely on SOE - much like how nobody even questions Lucasarts' involvement in the NGE. It was their IP after all, you can't change something like that on a whim, it was most likely a request by the owner of the IP itself. Of course SOE has to burn for it though.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
When SOE is the producer of Vanguard they are not at fault, because sigil is developing the game. When soe is developing starwars they are not at fault, because it was most likley the producers making changes. How exactly is that possible?
Do you really think soe had no idea what condition vanguard was in before they bought it and only then realized it might be a project that was beyond repair?
Perhaps the fact that Microsoft dropped the project should have been the first clue to SOE that funding a failed project without making necessary changes would just continue the failure.
All things said and done, soe did pretty well on the failure of vanguard didn't they? Sigil lost out, Microsoft lost out, 200k players lost out, but soe sure got a lot out of the deal.
SOE cut funding to sigil and that forced sigil to release. Sigil did not want to release in the least bit.
Nor was sigil going to see 100% of the money from the box sales. SOE was going to get its cut. Retail stores were going to get their cut. Sigil would be lucky to see a few million of that 10 million in sales once everyone was paid.
Not to mention sigil had a $30 million dollar debt to pay off, but you keep thinking they made tons of money.
5.4 whole million dollars in the first year. Hrmm...
Sigil had no money, and after two publishers poured loads of cash into what was still a buggy mess after years and years of development, they had no choice. SOE is a business, and as a business, their sole priority is not to fund the pet projects of old school MMORPG fans.
The case with SWG is the idea that the orders for the NGE came down from Lucas Arts in an attempt to attract subscribers to a game which was absolutely bleeding dollars. Lucas Arts had the power to change the direction of the game they were publishing, and SOE did not.
You people have completely lost touch with reaiity. Microsoft funded Sigil because they split from SOE, then they stopped funding them and SOE bought them out. Go read a news report on it or something, but seriously, it's not so long ago that anyone should forget or alter the facts as to what happened.
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Sigil was not bought out by SOE until after the release of Vanguard and after the company folded.
Author states: "SoE is a business and must operate within the confines of such."
Recommended course of action by author: "Mass petitions to SoE".
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If they could ditch SOE I'd try it.
Thank you for posting this editorial.
Vanguard is the first game I have gotten this attached to since playing Asheron's Call years ago, and it would be a shame if this outstanding game only became another footnote in MMO history. I have played on and off since mid-2007. There are times when this game breaks my heart, and times it lifts my soul.
Vanguard had a lot of problems in the past, and Vanguard is not devoid of problems today, yet there is still something very very "special" and wonderful about this game, that no other MMO on the market has for me.
This is the one game that I would probably break down and cry over, were it ever closed down for good.
I hope everyone out there at least has a chance to try this game at least once. Link for free 14-day trial: http://vanguard.station.sony.com/isleofdawn/
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Since SOE had ALL the money in the deal with Sigil so they could have made Sigil agree to whatever terms they wanted. Since Sigil had no bargaining power in the contract, there is little they could do. As the saying goes, he with the gold makes the rules.
I'm not saying sigil didn't fail to get their job done, but soe funded a known failure and didn't force sigil to correct their mistakes. No company could be stupid enough to expect the trainwreck of sigil to self correct and somehow become a success. Then soe cut funding when the game was nearing completion, scooped up the remains of a mostly completed game, hired the best staff (moving the very best to non-vanguard projects) and then game vanguard players free EQ2 time to entice them away from the game.
Soe never wanted the game to succeed. If they had the money to buy the company they had the money to fund the game to completion like they said they were committed to.
Oh as for the NGE, several SOE developers admitted it was their idea and they had to campaign to get the idea approved. Not to mention that massive combat revamps are a hallmark of what soe thinks will turn their games around. See EQ2/Matrix/Free Realms for non lucas arts revamps.
i dont think we can save this game SOE make crap game with bug i left everquest 2 because the game have bugs and lags as hell and since the shader 3.0
Shader 3.0 lol it make your character completly black and if u dont have any real friend to play with u skip 60% of the game its like imposible to find a group and the Looking for group tool is totaly dead
SOE did is time now its time to close the door or turn free to play should be a option but with all new mmogs that are announced lol and with all bad things about them i dont think any games from SOE could survive
i had a very bad experience with Everquest 2 and same with vanguard i now play AION and i enjoy the game
with all bad experience i had with SOE i will never buy or paye a game with the SOE logo
Well, it's possible I suppose.
I mean, family guy was cancelled how many times? And people writing in as well as dvd sales convinced them to bring it back.
of course, that would mean Vanguard would have to at least increase in numbers enough to back up those petitions.
In the end what i see from game companies is that they put out a game, back it with as much as they can for a small bit and then they move on.
The two games that I can think of that arent' like this are WoW and EVE. Turbine seems to do this though I can't speak for Asheron's call.
That's why I really respect CCP. They are in the business to make EVE great and at the moment, EVE is their only business. Even with Dust and the Vampire/Werewolf game they are working on, Dust ties into eve and the vampire game seems like they are diversifying.
But other companies seem to be in the business of making games. They make one and move on, make one, move on.
NC Soft does this as well. not that they completely leave the game in a lurch but they just seem to be more about making games than makine "a" game as great as they can.
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The game was not near completion. It launched with an entire continent unfinished in addition to MOUNTAINS of bugs. Even three years later, the game still plays more like a beta test than a finished product. Sigil owed money to Microsoft from the previous partnership and had to release it at this point. Expecting SOE to pick up the tab for Sigil's debt is laughable. SOE salvaged what they could, and at least at launch, Vanguard was given a somewhat large development team with around 50 former Sigil employees. They fixed bugs and added content, but the problem was the game was still a buggy mess. People left and continuing to fully fund a failing MMORPG simply wasn't in SOE's plans. Even their flagship title suffers from a lack of dev support compared to the game at launch. Neither game was as successful as SOE or Sigil had planned, and as a result, SOE doesn't have mountains of cash to spend on paying developers to add new content and to polish bugs. The difference is that while EQ2 is a moderate success, Vanguard is a failure. It failed at launch and continued loosing subscriber after subscriber. EQ2 went through a period of server merges and population issues, but as the game began to gain subscribers, it gained content. Games with a healthy playerbase get bug fixes and content. Dying mmorpgs get put on life support. I realize Vanguard is precious to you, but the blame falls on Sigil for attempting to develop a game beyond the scope of their abilities and not SOE for simply running their company as a business should.
The conspiracy theory idea is absolutely ridiculous. SOE is in the business to make a profit, and ingesting millions of dollars into an unproven product simply is not the way to run a business. If Vanguard was bug free and ready for release upon the time of the SOE takeover, SOE would not care what game is making them a profit because a profit is being made. If Vanguard had a sizable playerbase, and SOE was taking in large amounts of revenue from them, they would develop more content for Vanguard to placate the existing playerbase or to attract even more players. Vanguard is not making SOE any money, and resources are better spent funding projects that are actually going to make SOE a profit. SOE is not under the leadership of a bunch of twelve year olds who are mad at Sigil because they think SIgil's game is better than their's is, and the entire idea is laughable. Throughout the history of this laughable excuse, there has not been one single shred of evidence that SOE did, in fact, choke the life out of Vanguard to fluff the subsciber numbers of their flagship title, and the only defense is usually nothing more than bitter vanbois grasping at straws by doing taking offense to such things as SOE having the audacity to run free EQ2 trials for former players among other things. Seriously, stop the conspiracy crap, take a walk outside of your basement, and face reality.
Appealing to the masses is the business model of games like WoW or FreeRealms. Vanguard was always designed to be a far deeper, far less casual game than those, and thus, was not a game to appeal to the masses.
It had a harsh death penalty, large leveling curves, no instances, a complex crafting system, few fast travel options. These things do not have mass appeal. Mass market players don't want immersive virtual worlds, they want WoW arcades.
I like Vanguard; it is an old-school full featured MMO, not too crowded and no spammers. I hope it can be kept alive, with enough subs.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
As the paying customer...we don't "save" Vanguard, that's the designers job.
It's very simple really - if it was worth playing / paying for, it wouldn't have this problem.
Market forces cast its vote on this game. Consider yourself luck SOE didn't pull the plug altogether.