If this is actually the case, then I may end up picking the game up. I dunno, I kinda like that there are penalties for killing people. I have nothing against open world PvP, but open world PvP without consequences, well, that's just anarchy.
A lack of in-game laws doesn't not result in freedom - it results in anarchy, in chaos. In such an environment, only the murderer is allowed to engage in his style of play - everyone else's style of play will be subordinate or non-existent.
Most (if not all) of the posts have not objected to "in-game laws" but rather to the implementation of a stat-loss penalty for PvPing. There are tons of ways to enforce good behavior and penalize "bad" behavior without creating a stat-loss game mechanic for PvP.
Again though.. it's personal choice. You might absolutely love stat-loss while I think it's silly and totally against the sandbox concept. Just like you might like mustard on your hamburger while I hate it. There is no "right" or wrong answer here, only personal preferences.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If this is actually the case, then I may end up picking the game up. I dunno, I kinda like that there are penalties for killing people. I have nothing against open world PvP, but open world PvP without consequences, well, that's just anarchy.
Finally someone who gets it!
Again.. 99.9% of the people agree their should be consequences... the question is what form those consequences should take.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
A lack of in-game laws doesn't not result in freedom - it results in anarchy, in chaos. In such an environment, only the murderer is allowed to engage in his style of play - everyone else's style of play will be subordinate or non-existent.
Most (if not all) of the posts have not objected to "in-game laws" but rather to the implementation of a stat-loss penalty for PvPing. There are tons of ways to enforce good behavior and penalize "bad" behavior without creating a stat-loss game mechanic for PvP.
Again though.. it's personal choice. You might absolutely love stat-loss while I think it's silly and totally against the sandbox concept. Just like you might like mustard on your hamburger while I hate it. There is no "right" or wrong answer here, only personal preferences.
Indeed, everything on this site is bathed in personal preference.
Stat-loss was effective in Ultima Online, as it is proving so far in Mortal Online. Even sandbox games require a framework and set of rules by which they are run.
What are some of the "tons of ways" for allowing multiple playstyles that you believe would be better?
If this is actually the case, then I may end up picking the game up. I dunno, I kinda like that there are penalties for killing people. I have nothing against open world PvP, but open world PvP without consequences, well, that's just anarchy.
Finally someone who gets it!
Again.. 99.9% of the people agree their should be consequences... the question is what form those consequences should take.
Actually, the majority of opinion in this thread supports stat-loss as an effective mechanic.
Those that are questioning it are definitely in the minority.
A lack of in-game laws doesn't not result in freedom - it results in anarchy, in chaos. In such an environment, only the murderer is allowed to engage in his style of play - everyone else's style of play will be subordinate or non-existent.
Most (if not all) of the posts have not objected to "in-game laws" but rather to the implementation of a stat-loss penalty for PvPing. There are tons of ways to enforce good behavior and penalize "bad" behavior without creating a stat-loss game mechanic for PvP.
Again though.. it's personal choice. You might absolutely love stat-loss while I think it's silly and totally against the sandbox concept. Just like you might like mustard on your hamburger while I hate it. There is no "right" or wrong answer here, only personal preferences.
I agree that statloss is an arbitrary mechanic, especially when limitted to reds (personally, I think there should be statloss on EVERY death, but that's just me). But, the point is, statloss works... it's arbitrary, but at a certain point all game mechanics are, it's just the nature of the medium. This is especially the case with flagging systems (I'm thinking DFO and EVE primarily)... how can a collection of functions determine whether that person you killed 'deserved it' or not...
I'm not gonna bitch about statloss, because I can't think of a FFA game that has a more effective "law-and-order" mechanics. It's not a perfect system when compared to the Great MMO in the Sky, no, but it gets the job done as well as, if not better than, anything else I've come across.
And I don't see how it's "against the sandbox concept". All sandboxes have game mechanics in place that limit player actions in one way or another; it couldn't be called a game otherwise. How is statloss less sandboxy then the system that decides "if you don't have at least level x taming, you won't be able to tame this animal"... You can't call this a violation of the sandbox, it's just a rule of the game. Sandbox's have rules like any other game, and statloss isn't prohibitive to gameplay (it's not like you have to go back to a lower-level instance ) so I don't see the problem.
Maybe SV could slap on some lore-based explanation in poorly-translated english, but imo it's just as valid as any other mechanic.
I don't mind the outcast status, that's been proposed before and never enforced quite so well.
The stat loss mechanic I can't support. I can guess why it's there, but I don't think there's any real good excuse as to why it's there. Unless there's an eating & drinking mechanic and the person is so cut off they begin to starve or something.
It's obvious cutting people away from quest hubs and gold sinks is a fairly effective mechanic in itself.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
omg the starting post is so funny. The sentance is in there loud and clear. 'I bought this game this game so me and my friends could go around killing people and stealing there stuff' . This is exactly the type of game SV dont want, A game where the anoying twerps constantly kill people for no reason.
Yes ok this may be fun for small minded folk, But i'm pretty sure SV have spent all this time on the pve enviroment for it to be used. I'm not against pvp at all, but for once to have a game where if you want a scrap its possible, but first you stand back and think or wait for it to be deserved.
If you want to be a group of gankers then face what comes with it, outcast!
omg the starting post is so funny. The sentance is in there loud and clear. 'I bought this game this game so me and my friends could go around killing people and stealing there stuff' . This is exactly the type of game SV dont want, A game where the anoying twerps constantly kill people for no reason.
Yes ok this may be fun for small minded folk, But i'm pretty sure SV have spent all this time on the pve enviroment for it to be used. I'm not against pvp at all, but for once to have a game where if you want a scrap its possible, but first you stand back and think or wait for it to be deserved.
If you want to be a group of gankers then face what comes with it, outcast!
Hehe yeah.. I'm still sitting on the fence with MO after trying the open beta, but the OP might just made SV $50 richer.. Might just have to buy this one.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
i am not against this feature, and applaud Mortal for implementing somthing so unobtrusive to deal with the ganker plague. however, i still say this particular choice is nonsensical and too mild to prevent large scale ganking.
especially in a game so concerned with preserving a sense of reality, the anti ganking mechanics should be more firmly rooted in social consequences, like game applied bounties etc.
Statloss is one of the things I actually liked about MO.
The problem is that the combat system is so bad, and exploitable (still, sadly), that people get murdercounts left and right as part of "griefing". It's happening now, happened during the beta, will continue to happen. I don't know a good way around it either.
I think this is one of those things that on paper looks great, but when they actually execute it, it really blows and makes the game more prone to griefing. But then again, listening to people talk about MO it's as if they want to be griefers anyway, so I suppose this is why they find the game fun. The only problem is, nobody stays subbed to games with lots of griefing either.
Statloss is one of the things I actually liked about MO.
The problem is that the combat system is so bad, and exploitable (still, sadly), that people get murdercounts left and right as part of "griefing". It's happening now, happened during the beta, will continue to happen. I don't know a good way around it either.
I think this is one of those things that on paper looks great, but when they actually execute it, it really blows and makes the game more prone to griefing. But then again, listening to people talk about MO it's as if they want to be griefers anyway, so I suppose this is why they find the game fun. The only problem is, nobody stays subbed to games with lots of griefing either.
What are you talking about? The system as-is is clearly preventing it's fair share of griefing... it was obviously too much for OP.
You say you don't play the game, but you keep making these claims in various threads about MO being a grief-fest, hack-fest and exploit-fest. Please consider the possibility that these conclusions can't be reached by pure a priori reasoning, because frankly your claims don't seem to correlate with the players' personal experiences... and no, I'm not just talking about me.
You can't just 'deduce' problems into the game than propagate them through repetition.
Statloss is one of the things I actually liked about MO.
The problem is that the combat system is so bad, and exploitable (still, sadly), that people get murdercounts left and right as part of "griefing". It's happening now, happened during the beta, will continue to happen. I don't know a good way around it either.
I think this is one of those things that on paper looks great, but when they actually execute it, it really blows and makes the game more prone to griefing. But then again, listening to people talk about MO it's as if they want to be griefers anyway, so I suppose this is why they find the game fun. The only problem is, nobody stays subbed to games with lots of griefing either.
What are you talking about? The system as-is is clearly preventing it's fair share of griefing... it was obviously too much for OP.
You say you don't play the game, but you keep making these claims in various threads about MO being a grief-fest, hack-fest and exploit-fest. Please consider the possibility that these conclusions can't be reached by pure a priori reasoning, because frankly your claims don't seem to correlate with the players' personal experiences... and no, I'm not just talking about me.
You can't just 'deduce' problems into the game than propagate them through repetition.
I think the system as it stands does avoid griefing in one way, but introduces it in new ways. I didn't say MO was a hack fest, or exploit fest either -- I said it's very prone to hacking because of everything being client sided. It doesn't mean it's a prevalant thing. Statloss is a system like I said, I agree with -- I think it does work to reduce griefing when it was applied in UO. But this isn't the same game as UO, and you can't dump an entire system that worked in one game into another and hope it works. People have already experienced the problems with statloss because of the way the combat system works. It's mitigated a bit by the targetting system, however things like loot stealing and such are still popular ways to grief and trigger murder counts.
Either way, I think statloss is good, I think in MO it's a good idea, I just think the implementation is subpar and probably could use a little "oomph" but with the current design of the game, I really wouldn't know where to improve it. It is better than Darkfall's free for all system though.
Stat loss is only really meant to punish people who constantly PK blues (innocents) very frequently. It is possible to stay red and avoid stat loss even when you die.
Besides, this is nothing like other games out there...you dont have to "grind" to get back to your max skill that you lost if you chose to go red and have stat loss. It's very fast stat/skill gain.
Disclaimer: This is not a troll post and is not here to promote any negative energy. Although this may be a criticism, it is not meant to offend anyone. If a moderator feels the post is inappropriate, please remove it immediately before it is subject to consideration for a warning. Thank you.
to tell the truth, ever since shadowbane fell, i have been searching for a game that pitted Builders against Breakers. do the MO players feel that this is it?
i was concerned that this statloss thing would make the game the game unplayable for gankers, and therefore any structures maintained by builders/carebears etc would be meaningless.
i would love to see a game where building an empire was difficult, but possible, and in constant danger of being ruined by other players. i find PvP warring, stemming from territorial ganking is actually a great feature in these Guild vs Guild sandbox sim type games.
is Mortal the game im looking for? or is does this statloss thing sort of unofficially mean its for "play nice" players only?
to tell the truth, ever since shadowbane fell, i have been searching for a game that pitted Builders against Breakers. do the MO players feel that this is it?
i was concerned that this statloss thing would make the game the game unplayable for gankers, and therefore any structures maintained by builders/carebears etc would be meaningless.
i would love to see a game where building an empire was difficult, but possible, and in constant danger of being ruined by other players. i find PvP warring, stemming from territorial ganking is actually a great feature in these Guild vs Guild sandbox sim type games.
is Mortal the game im looking for? or is does this statloss thing sort of unofficially mean its for "play nice" players only?
I never thought about it, but Builders vs. Breakers is a pretty good way to describe it... as long as you toss in "scared people who just want to get from point A to point B"
While I haven't been red for a long enough period to make any conclusions, there ARE some red guilds (and solos) out there who seem undeterred by statloss, so I'm guessing it's not TOO extreme.
Statloss (and the red flag in general, barring them from cities and making them a target) primarily deters two specific type of PK'ing, and that is the "casual /lazy ganker" (like the OP, for instance; no offense intended), and the "bumrush in naked, die, rez, repeat indefinitely" crowd... IMO this helps clear the field a bit so it's not an absolute gank-fest, but not some carebear's paradise either.
And keep in mind statloss only applies if you DIE (or rather, rez after dying) with a red flag, which means you killed 5 'innocent' people in a relatively short amount of time... There's still plenty of room for the occasional murder of opportunity, or just killing the guy with the hitler mustache who is ninja'ing everyone's loot.
to tell the truth, ever since shadowbane fell, i have been searching for a game that pitted Builders against Breakers. do the MO players feel that this is it?
i was concerned that this statloss thing would make the game the game unplayable for gankers, and therefore any structures maintained by builders/carebears etc would be meaningless.
i would love to see a game where building an empire was difficult, but possible, and in constant danger of being ruined by other players. i find PvP warring, stemming from territorial ganking is actually a great feature in these Guild vs Guild sandbox sim type games.
is Mortal the game im looking for? or is does this statloss thing sort of unofficially mean its for "play nice" players only?
Well there is no seiging or warfare systems in MO at all. If you're looking for that mentality, I think DF may be better suited. MO is more about guild vs guild battles right now, but they are kind of meaningless because housing has little to no importance in the gameworld (other than its "cool" to have one) and there are no systems that impact the world when you win against another player or guild. It's just disjointed, unorganized PvP. Like I said, it's fun, but I don't know for how long without any meaningful persistence in the gameworld.
to tell the truth, ever since shadowbane fell, i have been searching for a game that pitted Builders against Breakers. do the MO players feel that this is it?
i was concerned that this statloss thing would make the game the game unplayable for gankers, and therefore any structures maintained by builders/carebears etc would be meaningless.
i would love to see a game where building an empire was difficult, but possible, and in constant danger of being ruined by other players. i find PvP warring, stemming from territorial ganking is actually a great feature in these Guild vs Guild sandbox sim type games.
is Mortal the game im looking for? or is does this statloss thing sort of unofficially mean its for "play nice" players only?
Well there is no seiging or warfare systems in MO at all. If you're looking for that mentality, I think DF may be better suited. MO is more about guild vs guild battles right now, but they are kind of meaningless because housing has little to no importance in the gameworld (other than its "cool" to have one) and there are no systems that impact the world when you win against another player or guild. It's just disjointed, unorganized PvP. Like I said, it's fun, but I don't know for how long without any meaningful persistence in the gameworld.
Guild war declarations and sieging will come later after all the bugs and polish to what we currently have is applied.
Housing has great importance;
1.) Allows a guild to be set up = global guild chat
2.) Guild bank within the house
3.) Repuation in the world of Nave as a guild
4.) Better crafting benches / player owned shops ect for addons
Edit; MO isn't just a PvP game, the PvP is fun and has meaning for the moment. (Establishing yourself in the local hierarchy of PvP'ers, getting expensive armour from other players, fun.)
We have dungeons, caves, nice areas to explore with very good mobs to kill (see the jungle)
We also have an IMMENSE crafting system which is everything a crafter could dream for and that little bit more.
to tell the truth, ever since shadowbane fell, i have been searching for a game that pitted Builders against Breakers. do the MO players feel that this is it?
i was concerned that this statloss thing would make the game the game unplayable for gankers, and therefore any structures maintained by builders/carebears etc would be meaningless.
i would love to see a game where building an empire was difficult, but possible, and in constant danger of being ruined by other players. i find PvP warring, stemming from territorial ganking is actually a great feature in these Guild vs Guild sandbox sim type games.
is Mortal the game im looking for? or is does this statloss thing sort of unofficially mean its for "play nice" players only?
Not really for "nice players". There are consequences if you kill someone, you get red. But you can be sure of there are still lots of PvP and reds in the world. As a blue you can be more safe around blue towns but not totally safe.
The statloss don't take long time to get back, unless you totally suck at PvP. There are many red guilds in MO, a sign that people thinks it's fun playing as a red. And they don't complain at it either.
In MO you can build houses, bridges, keeps and palisades and soon even more. Soon we will get siege machines. One of them we saw in a over 1 year old youtube clip.
to tell the truth, ever since shadowbane fell, i have been searching for a game that pitted Builders against Breakers. do the MO players feel that this is it?
i was concerned that this statloss thing would make the game the game unplayable for gankers, and therefore any structures maintained by builders/carebears etc would be meaningless.
i would love to see a game where building an empire was difficult, but possible, and in constant danger of being ruined by other players. i find PvP warring, stemming from territorial ganking is actually a great feature in these Guild vs Guild sandbox sim type games.
is Mortal the game im looking for? or is does this statloss thing sort of unofficially mean its for "play nice" players only?
I never thought about it, but Builders vs. Breakers is a pretty good way to describe it... as long as you toss in "scared people who just want to get from point A to point B"
While I haven't been red for a long enough period to make any conclusions, there ARE some red guilds (and solos) out there who seem undeterred by statloss, so I'm guessing it's not TOO extreme.
Statloss (and the red flag in general, barring them from cities and making them a target) primarily deters two specific type of PK'ing, and that is the "casual /lazy ganker" (like the OP, for instance; no offense intended), and the "bumrush in naked, die, rez, repeat indefinitely" crowd... IMO this helps clear the field a bit so it's not an absolute gank-fest, but not some carebear's paradise either.
And keep in mind statloss only applies if you DIE (or rather, rez after dying) with a red flag, which means you killed 5 'innocent' people in a relatively short amount of time... There's still plenty of room for the occasional murder of opportunity, or just killing the guy with the hitler mustache who is ninja'ing everyone's loot.
From what I've read, you can almost max out your stats in something like a days game play, so for sombody who doesn't mind working those lost points back every now and then, I can see it not being that big of a deal.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
to tell the truth, ever since shadowbane fell, i have been searching for a game that pitted Builders against Breakers. do the MO players feel that this is it?
i was concerned that this statloss thing would make the game the game unplayable for gankers, and therefore any structures maintained by builders/carebears etc would be meaningless.
i would love to see a game where building an empire was difficult, but possible, and in constant danger of being ruined by other players. i find PvP warring, stemming from territorial ganking is actually a great feature in these Guild vs Guild sandbox sim type games.
is Mortal the game im looking for? or is does this statloss thing sort of unofficially mean its for "play nice" players only?
Not really for "nice players". There are consequences if you kill someone, you get red. But you can be sure of there are still lots of PvP and reds in the world. As a blue you can be more safe around blue towns but not totally safe.
The statloss don't take long time to get back, unless you totally suck at PvP. There are many red guilds in MO, a sign that people thinks it's fun playing as a red. And they don't complain at it either.
In MO you can build houses, bridges, keeps and palisades and soon even more. Soon we will get siege machines. One of them we saw in a over 1 year old youtube clip.
I wouldn't count on the siege machines and the siege mechanics being around for a long while.
I've been dying for something like Shadowbane, but after 5 kills or so you lose stats?
Seems like a logical fix would be to allow times when massive combat happens that this penelty is waved. Like during a siege or at capture times for resources. (God I miss Shadowbane.. If only it didn't age like milk.)
Or is it just, you fight off someone. You're good enough as a group to finish off his friends, boom you're all debuffed?
That doesn't sound fun. Now in the general world or in quest areas or what not using it as a means to punish murderers is cool.
I don't know. I always liked the idea that if you're in a game like this and you're being a douche just making you stand out like a sore thumb on maps or what not to let other players deal with you is a better idea.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
I've been dying for something like Shadowbane, but after 5 kills or so you lose stats?
Seems like a logical fix would be to allow times when massive combat happens that this penelty is waved. Like during a siege or at capture times for resources. (God I miss Shadowbane.. If only it didn't age like milk.)
Or is it just, you fight off someone. You're good enough as a group to finish off his friends, boom you're all debuffed?
That doesn't sound fun. Now in the general world or in quest areas or what not using it as a means to punish murderers is cool.
I don't know. I always liked the idea that if you're in a game like this and you're being a douche just making you stand out like a sore thumb on maps or what not to let other players deal with you is a better idea.
Im not 100 % sure, but i think if your guild has declared war on another guild you can kill people in that guild without getting murder counts.
Comments
Finally someone who gets it!
Most (if not all) of the posts have not objected to "in-game laws" but rather to the implementation of a stat-loss penalty for PvPing. There are tons of ways to enforce good behavior and penalize "bad" behavior without creating a stat-loss game mechanic for PvP.
Again though.. it's personal choice. You might absolutely love stat-loss while I think it's silly and totally against the sandbox concept. Just like you might like mustard on your hamburger while I hate it. There is no "right" or wrong answer here, only personal preferences.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Again.. 99.9% of the people agree their should be consequences... the question is what form those consequences should take.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Indeed, everything on this site is bathed in personal preference.
Stat-loss was effective in Ultima Online, as it is proving so far in Mortal Online. Even sandbox games require a framework and set of rules by which they are run.
What are some of the "tons of ways" for allowing multiple playstyles that you believe would be better?
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Actually, the majority of opinion in this thread supports stat-loss as an effective mechanic.
Those that are questioning it are definitely in the minority.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
I agree that statloss is an arbitrary mechanic, especially when limitted to reds (personally, I think there should be statloss on EVERY death, but that's just me). But, the point is, statloss works... it's arbitrary, but at a certain point all game mechanics are, it's just the nature of the medium. This is especially the case with flagging systems (I'm thinking DFO and EVE primarily)... how can a collection of functions determine whether that person you killed 'deserved it' or not...
I'm not gonna bitch about statloss, because I can't think of a FFA game that has a more effective "law-and-order" mechanics. It's not a perfect system when compared to the Great MMO in the Sky, no, but it gets the job done as well as, if not better than, anything else I've come across.
And I don't see how it's "against the sandbox concept". All sandboxes have game mechanics in place that limit player actions in one way or another; it couldn't be called a game otherwise. How is statloss less sandboxy then the system that decides "if you don't have at least level x taming, you won't be able to tame this animal"... You can't call this a violation of the sandbox, it's just a rule of the game. Sandbox's have rules like any other game, and statloss isn't prohibitive to gameplay (it's not like you have to go back to a lower-level instance ) so I don't see the problem.
Maybe SV could slap on some lore-based explanation in poorly-translated english, but imo it's just as valid as any other mechanic.
All anybody flagged as a murderer has to do in order to avoid stat loss, is not die until the debuff goes away..
Shouldn't be difficult for the hardcore PvP crowd right? They all about mad skillz.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
I don't mind the outcast status, that's been proposed before and never enforced quite so well.
The stat loss mechanic I can't support. I can guess why it's there, but I don't think there's any real good excuse as to why it's there. Unless there's an eating & drinking mechanic and the person is so cut off they begin to starve or something.
It's obvious cutting people away from quest hubs and gold sinks is a fairly effective mechanic in itself.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
omg the starting post is so funny. The sentance is in there loud and clear. 'I bought this game this game so me and my friends could go around killing people and stealing there stuff' . This is exactly the type of game SV dont want, A game where the anoying twerps constantly kill people for no reason.
Yes ok this may be fun for small minded folk, But i'm pretty sure SV have spent all this time on the pve enviroment for it to be used. I'm not against pvp at all, but for once to have a game where if you want a scrap its possible, but first you stand back and think or wait for it to be deserved.
If you want to be a group of gankers then face what comes with it, outcast!
Hehe yeah.. I'm still sitting on the fence with MO after trying the open beta, but the OP might just made SV $50 richer.. Might just have to buy this one.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
i am not against this feature, and applaud Mortal for implementing somthing so unobtrusive to deal with the ganker plague. however, i still say this particular choice is nonsensical and too mild to prevent large scale ganking.
especially in a game so concerned with preserving a sense of reality, the anti ganking mechanics should be more firmly rooted in social consequences, like game applied bounties etc.
Statloss is one of the things I actually liked about MO.
The problem is that the combat system is so bad, and exploitable (still, sadly), that people get murdercounts left and right as part of "griefing". It's happening now, happened during the beta, will continue to happen. I don't know a good way around it either.
I think this is one of those things that on paper looks great, but when they actually execute it, it really blows and makes the game more prone to griefing. But then again, listening to people talk about MO it's as if they want to be griefers anyway, so I suppose this is why they find the game fun. The only problem is, nobody stays subbed to games with lots of griefing either.
What are you talking about? The system as-is is clearly preventing it's fair share of griefing... it was obviously too much for OP.
You say you don't play the game, but you keep making these claims in various threads about MO being a grief-fest, hack-fest and exploit-fest. Please consider the possibility that these conclusions can't be reached by pure a priori reasoning, because frankly your claims don't seem to correlate with the players' personal experiences... and no, I'm not just talking about me.
You can't just 'deduce' problems into the game than propagate them through repetition.
I think the system as it stands does avoid griefing in one way, but introduces it in new ways. I didn't say MO was a hack fest, or exploit fest either -- I said it's very prone to hacking because of everything being client sided. It doesn't mean it's a prevalant thing. Statloss is a system like I said, I agree with -- I think it does work to reduce griefing when it was applied in UO. But this isn't the same game as UO, and you can't dump an entire system that worked in one game into another and hope it works. People have already experienced the problems with statloss because of the way the combat system works. It's mitigated a bit by the targetting system, however things like loot stealing and such are still popular ways to grief and trigger murder counts.
Either way, I think statloss is good, I think in MO it's a good idea, I just think the implementation is subpar and probably could use a little "oomph" but with the current design of the game, I really wouldn't know where to improve it. It is better than Darkfall's free for all system though.
Kinda more and more i read more and more i am starting to want to play this game! :P
Damn you all!
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Stat loss is only really meant to punish people who constantly PK blues (innocents) very frequently. It is possible to stay red and avoid stat loss even when you die.
Besides, this is nothing like other games out there...you dont have to "grind" to get back to your max skill that you lost if you chose to go red and have stat loss. It's very fast stat/skill gain.
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to tell the truth, ever since shadowbane fell, i have been searching for a game that pitted Builders against Breakers. do the MO players feel that this is it?
i was concerned that this statloss thing would make the game the game unplayable for gankers, and therefore any structures maintained by builders/carebears etc would be meaningless.
i would love to see a game where building an empire was difficult, but possible, and in constant danger of being ruined by other players. i find PvP warring, stemming from territorial ganking is actually a great feature in these Guild vs Guild sandbox sim type games.
is Mortal the game im looking for? or is does this statloss thing sort of unofficially mean its for "play nice" players only?
I never thought about it, but Builders vs. Breakers is a pretty good way to describe it... as long as you toss in "scared people who just want to get from point A to point B"
While I haven't been red for a long enough period to make any conclusions, there ARE some red guilds (and solos) out there who seem undeterred by statloss, so I'm guessing it's not TOO extreme.
Statloss (and the red flag in general, barring them from cities and making them a target) primarily deters two specific type of PK'ing, and that is the "casual /lazy ganker" (like the OP, for instance; no offense intended), and the "bumrush in naked, die, rez, repeat indefinitely" crowd... IMO this helps clear the field a bit so it's not an absolute gank-fest, but not some carebear's paradise either.
And keep in mind statloss only applies if you DIE (or rather, rez after dying) with a red flag, which means you killed 5 'innocent' people in a relatively short amount of time... There's still plenty of room for the occasional murder of opportunity, or just killing the guy with the hitler mustache who is ninja'ing everyone's loot.
Well there is no seiging or warfare systems in MO at all. If you're looking for that mentality, I think DF may be better suited. MO is more about guild vs guild battles right now, but they are kind of meaningless because housing has little to no importance in the gameworld (other than its "cool" to have one) and there are no systems that impact the world when you win against another player or guild. It's just disjointed, unorganized PvP. Like I said, it's fun, but I don't know for how long without any meaningful persistence in the gameworld.
Guild war declarations and sieging will come later after all the bugs and polish to what we currently have is applied.
Housing has great importance;
1.) Allows a guild to be set up = global guild chat
2.) Guild bank within the house
3.) Repuation in the world of Nave as a guild
4.) Better crafting benches / player owned shops ect for addons
Edit; MO isn't just a PvP game, the PvP is fun and has meaning for the moment. (Establishing yourself in the local hierarchy of PvP'ers, getting expensive armour from other players, fun.)
We have dungeons, caves, nice areas to explore with very good mobs to kill (see the jungle)
We also have an IMMENSE crafting system which is everything a crafter could dream for and that little bit more.
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/46257-honestly-if-situation-doesnt-change.html#post921888
Not really for "nice players". There are consequences if you kill someone, you get red. But you can be sure of there are still lots of PvP and reds in the world. As a blue you can be more safe around blue towns but not totally safe.
The statloss don't take long time to get back, unless you totally suck at PvP. There are many red guilds in MO, a sign that people thinks it's fun playing as a red. And they don't complain at it either.
In MO you can build houses, bridges, keeps and palisades and soon even more. Soon we will get siege machines. One of them we saw in a over 1 year old youtube clip.
From what I've read, you can almost max out your stats in something like a days game play, so for sombody who doesn't mind working those lost points back every now and then, I can see it not being that big of a deal.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
I wouldn't count on the siege machines and the siege mechanics being around for a long while.
But optimism is good I suppose
Well it seems to me this game is interesting.
I've been dying for something like Shadowbane, but after 5 kills or so you lose stats?
Seems like a logical fix would be to allow times when massive combat happens that this penelty is waved. Like during a siege or at capture times for resources. (God I miss Shadowbane.. If only it didn't age like milk.)
Or is it just, you fight off someone. You're good enough as a group to finish off his friends, boom you're all debuffed?
That doesn't sound fun. Now in the general world or in quest areas or what not using it as a means to punish murderers is cool.
I don't know. I always liked the idea that if you're in a game like this and you're being a douche just making you stand out like a sore thumb on maps or what not to let other players deal with you is a better idea.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Im not 100 % sure, but i think if your guild has declared war on another guild you can kill people in that guild without getting murder counts.
Currently Playing Path of Exile