Way to go to draw your premature conclusions I guess some people can already tell that the game won't be challenging, or know what every other MMO gamer likes.
Of course I can tell the game won't be challenging, if I don't struggle to find the right class and have a companion to replace it then imagine how the rest game will be like. And yes, I believe the game will target players from the "offline" genre rather than the pure MMO gamers. Someone can tell that even with the few information we have on the game.
Having to deal with the unnecessary drama of putting up with someone extremely difficult because they are a rarer class that's required is a challenge I do not want. Having to spend hours, days, or weeks trying to get someone of the right class to join a guild is another challenge I do not want. Let challenges be elsewhere.
Originally posted by DarthViktor WoW is really just a level grind to 80 with little to no story in it whatsoever. The Old Reoublic is much more than that.
I'm sure you know this because you've played the game.
If this game is going to break a million active subscribers then I don't think its a good idea to exclude a large group of people. Everyone on these forums keep saying this is going to be a WoW killer, but then a lot of them go on and say this game will not be for a lot of people. This is the wrong way of looking at it.
Why would you think SWTOR won't bring in brand new virgin subscribers? just as WoW brought in millions of new players to the genre.
It is possible that there are many who just haven't tried an MMO becuase there isn't anything that has appealed to them just yet, when WoW came on the scene we suddenly had this huge influx of new to the genre players, the same could very well happen to SWTOR.
I remember many threads talking about the MMO genre reaching saturation point with EQ1/DAoC and Asherons call 1, oh how very wrong those ppl where, the genre has a very long way to go before anyone could consider the market being unable to support another AAA MMO.
People tagging everything that hits their eye a 'WoW clone' make me question their intelligence and their level of reasoning capability. But I guess some people need such crutches and easy classifications, lacking the ability to look further and deeper than they're worth.
I'd also add that the combat roles and group dynamic will not be the same, as I mentioned on the page just before this (edit: drat, two pages ago).
WoW is really just a level grind to 80 with little to no story in it whatsoever. The Old Reoublic is much more than that.
I'm sure you know this because you've played the game.
Played WoW and it is already been said a bazillion times that TOR is a story-based mmo with some actual true meaning with real decisons that effect gameplay. WoW is nothing like that at all. WoW is not fully voiced and it does not have advanced classes. So why people are saying it is a WoW clone is beyond me. Maybe the WoW fdiehards actually fear that theere is actually a better mmo to play ? Who knows.
Originally posted by DarthViktor Originally posted by uohaloran
Originally posted by DarthViktor WoW is really just a level grind to 80 with little to no story in it whatsoever. The Old Reoublic is much more than that.
I'm sure you know this because you've played the game.
Played WoW and it is already been said a bazillion times that TOR is a story-based mmo with some actual true meaning with real decisons that effect gameplay. WoW is nothing like that at all. WoW is also fully voiced and it does not have advanced classes. So why people are saying it is a WoW clone is beyond me. Maybe the WoW fdiehards actually fear that theere is actually a better mmo tp play ? Who knows.
So you don't think that Bioware would try and hype their game and what they say is completely factual?
WoW is really just a level grind to 80 with little to no story in it whatsoever. The Old Reoublic is much more than that.
I'm sure you know this because you've played the game.
Played WoW and it is already been said a bazillion times that TOR is a story-based mmo with some actual true meaning with real decisons that effect gameplay. WoW is nothing like that at all. WoW is also fully voiced and it does not have advanced classes. So why people are saying it is a WoW clone is beyond me. Maybe the WoW fdiehards actually fear that theere is actually a better mmo tp play ? Who knows.
So you don't think that Bioware would try and hype their game and what they say is completely factual?
You're as delusional as the rest.
I guess you never played a Bioware game before or maybe even realize how good of a company Bioware has been for the past 15 years.
I look forward to having a jedi/sith with my own ship that I use to go between large open worlds.
but not too excited about a 'Star Wars' game that relies on the old and tired 'tank, heal, dps' mechanic, which has never been very realistic or fun anyway.
enimies that only attack the guy with the most health are boring and mind-numbingly predictable ( i know it requires hate, threat, or w/e, but it's ridiculous that this is still the main mmo mechanic after all these years).
A tank and a healer make sense in DnD style games but when did jedis heal in the Star Wars films? and why have tanks if you are just going to let guys with blasters do it anyway?
so these are my concerns-
-combat gameplay
-available races
-immersion of worlds
Also... I hardly quest in MMO's. I make it my own game and do as i like, even in themeparks where it might be more restricting. a huge storyline buff is not what i will pay a monthly sub for. i can play a console game if i want a storyline shoved in my face. I make my own plot with the army of alts i create in any game. in fact, when an MMO keeps creating my direction for me, i reject it and just go do as i like anyway. THAT is why i pay a monthly fee for an MMO. the ability to do as I like in a massive enviroment, along with throngs of others who may or may not have a similar playstyle.
alot of people fail to realize that the quests in alot of mmo's aren't involved in the main storyline because they are not intended to be. WoW was meant to be the downtime between wars, until TBC and WOTLK, so the old world quests were not supposed to be revolved around the MAIN plot of Azeroth. and if you play the xpacs they do revolve around the plot. not to mention, if you actually read all the books in the old world, and talk to all the NPC's, you can learn almost anything there is to know about the Warcraft IP. the fact that you have to pay attention, read, and search for it ( for instance a tomb somewhere of an old hero from the IP), is what makes it similar to real life, where one has to pay attention and search for answers as well.
it has already been shown that SWTOR will have the same old 'kill x amount of y' type of quest and i'm sure escort quests, delivery, and every other style quest that has been done in years past will also be in the game. and the 'seperate player plot' will just be a very drawn out version of class quests. this does not bother me. it's what is expected from an MMO and this game is not going to change anything too drastically.
do i think it will deliver a fun experience? yes. i plan of getting it when it launches but I'm not going to pretend that it is going to break the mold in the mmo world. it will be popular because of who is making it, the IP, and because Bioware will most likely be smart enough to launch a finished game.
WoW is really just a level grind to 80 with little to no story in it whatsoever. The Old Reoublic is much more than that.
I'm sure you know this because you've played the game.
Played WoW and it is already been said a bazillion times that TOR is a story-based mmo with some actual true meaning with real decisons that effect gameplay. WoW is nothing like that at all. WoW is also fully voiced and it does not have advanced classes. So why people are saying it is a WoW clone is beyond me. Maybe the WoW fdiehards actually fear that theere is actually a better mmo tp play ? Who knows.
So you don't think that Bioware would try and hype their game and what they say is completely factual?
You're as delusional as the rest.
Can you dig up 5 examples of Bioware lying about game features in the last 15 years? I can't think of a single one. They have a reputation for being honest and careful about what they say for a very good reason.
I look forward to having a jedi/sith with my own ship that I use to go between large open worlds.
not too excited about a 'Star Wars' game that relies on the old and tired 'tank, heal, dps' mechanic, which has never been very realistic or fun anyway.
enimies that only attack the guy with the most health are boring and mind-numbingly predictable ( i know it requires hate, threat, or w/e, but it's ridiculous that this is still the main mmo mechanic after all these years).
DOES NO ONE READ MY POSTS!?
TOR is not at all limited to Holy Trinity combat, the Devs have been explicit on this more than once. Heck, they've said you don't even need a healer. And there are many combat videos that show "tanks" don't hold aggro on everything like they would in WoW (and it probably isn't even a realistic goal).
I look forward to having a jedi/sith with my own ship that I use to go between large open worlds.
not too excited about a 'Star Wars' game that relies on the old and tired 'tank, heal, dps' mechanic, which has never been very realistic or fun anyway.
enimies that only attack the guy with the most health are boring and mind-numbingly predictable ( i know it requires hate, threat, or w/e, but it's ridiculous that this is still the main mmo mechanic after all these years).
DOES NO ONE READ MY POSTS!?
TOR is not at all limited to Holy Trinity combat, the Devs have been explicit on this more than once. Heck, they've said you don't even need a healer. And there are many combat videos that show "tanks" don't hold aggro on everything like they would in WoW (and it probably isn't even a realistic goal).
so all you are saying is that is is similar in that aspect with CoH/CoV? i don't think you're saying anything I didn't already know. we all saw that video with the jedi healer and soldier tanking with a blaster. it's nothing to be ashamed of. just not what i think of when i think 'Star Wars'.
I look forward to having a jedi/sith with my own ship that I use to go between large open worlds.
not too excited about a 'Star Wars' game that relies on the old and tired 'tank, heal, dps' mechanic, which has never been very realistic or fun anyway.
enimies that only attack the guy with the most health are boring and mind-numbingly predictable ( i know it requires hate, threat, or w/e, but it's ridiculous that this is still the main mmo mechanic after all these years).
DOES NO ONE READ MY POSTS!?
TOR is not at all limited to Holy Trinity combat, the Devs have been explicit on this more than once. Heck, they've said you don't even need a healer. And there are many combat videos that show "tanks" don't hold aggro on everything like they would in WoW (and it probably isn't even a realistic goal).
so all you are saying is that is is similar in that aspect with CoH/CoV? i don't think you're saying anything I didn't already know. we all saw that video with the jedi healer and soldier tanking with a blaster. it's nothing to be ashamed of. just not what i think of when i think 'Star Wars'.
A video where a Dev posted on the forums talking about how combat in it was intentionally dumbed down and the Consular was deliberately standing back and only healing since he was providing the viewpoint of the fight.
Personally I think dumbing down their combat example was a really bad idea. They did it for new players, supposedly, but they aren't going to think it looks very Star Wars-y, ad older MMO players aren't either. That said, it is what they intentionally did so ironically their combat demo wasn't a good demo of their combat.
Here's the link again (provided it two pages ago):
Link is nice, but better maybe to just copy the text in. They're talking about the video many have seen and are referring to:
"This is a great thread and it's nice to see so many of the discussions that take place within BioWare echoed among the fans. I'm actually in the booth now helping play through these demos (as the Jedi Knight--woot!), and this thread grabbed my attention. A lot of good points have been made already here to clarify what the multiplayer demo implies and what the takeway is, but I think it's worth a few more comments:
- For the purpose of this multiplayer demo, we wanted to keep the 'team combat dynamic' simple and easy to understand. Furthermore, the Consular acts as the healer and as the 'camera' for the demo, so she isn't necessarily playing exactly as she would in a normal playthrough. We wanted her to stay back from the action to provide a wide-angle view of the entire scene. Thus, where she might have run into to strike a few blows for righteousness in a regular group battle, she has to minimize that to keep the view right.
- One of the other things to keep in mind is that these are level 8-10 level characters, and none of them have begun to train as "advanced classes". New strategies for team combat develop as characters get new skills, get higher level powers, and select specializations. Keep in mind also, that the demo is designed so that people who may not be MMO veterans can understand it also.
- There also seems to be some confusion about the primary classes being locked into primary roles. The Sith Warrior has two advanced classes; the Juggernaut and the Marauder. One is a better track for a 'tank', the other is more of a damage-dealer. The paradigm of advanced classes is designed to provide branching options so that all primary classes have at least two options for the types of role they will play in groups. Beyond that even, there are further specialization/customization options that will give characters additional variety in the types of roles they can play.
To sum up, don't assume too much from one example of four-player team combat that we're showing at E3. We hope you like the team dynamic we're showing to folks here, but we don't want you guys to read too much into it. At a later date, we'll definitely try to show you some different strategies and team dynamics so you can get a better idea of the breadth of the experience of team combat in TOR.
Eventually, we look forward to you guys getting your hands on the game to find out for yourselves!"
The important stuff I colored in red.
Besides the enhancement upon the standard or traditional healer/dps/tank combat via the advanced classes and customisations that won't lock anyone in a specific role, also the influence of the Companions shouldn't be forgotten.
The way they've explained it is they're sort of enhanced pets or the Heroes in GW.
Like for example if you have 1 tank-like Class (or tank-fitted) and 2 dps-fitted Classes, you don't have to wait specifically for a healing-fitted class for your final spot. Instead you can bring your friend or guildie or any other class for that final spot, and bring 4 healing Companions with you and still do well. The same applies if you lack cc or dps, just bring the Companions along that are suited to fill the gap.
Combined with the multifunctionality of each class, the versatility and flexibility that Companions bring will help break the classic healer-tank-dps team setup. It'll be no longer what class a group still need, but what classes a group has, and let the Companions fill up any gap. And in contrast with the Heroes in GW, they will not fill up a team spot.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Cheers Cyphers. Although I would like to emphasise to those who still are holding onto the notion that the Consular is primarily a heal bot class in SWTOR:
"Furthermore, the Consular acts as the healer and as the 'camera' for the demo, so she isn't necessarily playing exactly as she would in a normal playthrough."
Is that big enough to get it through to certain individuals?
Anyone who's played AOC will understand the flexible group composition design that Bioware are trying to put into SWTOR.
Multiple classes can have multiple roles depending on how their player sets them up to play and how their group needs them to play. DPS'ers CAN be tank classes, tank classes CAN be dps'ers, healers CAN be dps'ers. The likes of WoW, AOC and many others showed how this can be possible (dual speccing, natural innate abilities to facilitate multiple roles, etc, etc).
To those who want to jump on AOC's current popularity status: No, just because AOC isn't incredibly popular doesn't mean that the flexibility in group composition is necessarily a flawed concept.
Does this mean that SWTOR is a "wow clone"? Does it hell as like. And anyone who thinks that really needs to lookup the definition of "clone".
The title of this topics screams fanboi. No one is looking for a WoW clone. How silly...
Incorrect.People ar elooking for WoW clones everywhere except in games they have decided to champion or put another way :
What I like = innovative and awesome.
Everything else = WoW Clone
I am amazed at the amount of people who do not really understand the title of this thread.
The funny thing is, if you actually ask people who moan about lack of innovation and that everything is a wow clone just how THEY would design an MMO, then not many, if any, could actually tell you what to replace the EQ-like gameplay with.
Many will point to "sandbox" designs and say how Indie MMO's should be given a chance. When the truth of the matter is such MMO's are often seen as bland, shallow and made by devs who really wouldn't know the definition of "quality" if it bit them in the ass.
Some would no doubt spout on about "innovation" like its some kind of magic wand that will fix everything. But when asked for details as to what THEY would consider as "innovative" many wouldn't be able to answer. It's like a child whining how they want sweets, but when you ask them what kind, they say "I dunno". So, unless they can provide a better alternative then they should just belt up and carry on playing Darkfall, Fallen Earth and Eve.
The simple fact is that it's not Blizzards, SOEs or Funcoms fault if the rest of the world considers many of the sandbox MMOs as not being as good as themepark MMO's. And people DON'T love Themepark MMO's ONLY because the sandbox ones are seen as crap either. To believe otherwise is just pure arrogance. Sometimes people just prefer a particular design, regardless of the competition. Survival of the fittest.
Comments
Having to deal with the unnecessary drama of putting up with someone extremely difficult because they are a rarer class that's required is a challenge I do not want. Having to spend hours, days, or weeks trying to get someone of the right class to join a guild is another challenge I do not want. Let challenges be elsewhere.
WoW is really just a level grind to 80 with little to no story in it whatsoever. The Old Reoublic is much more than that.
Why would you think SWTOR won't bring in brand new virgin subscribers? just as WoW brought in millions of new players to the genre.
It is possible that there are many who just haven't tried an MMO becuase there isn't anything that has appealed to them just yet, when WoW came on the scene we suddenly had this huge influx of new to the genre players, the same could very well happen to SWTOR.
I remember many threads talking about the MMO genre reaching saturation point with EQ1/DAoC and Asherons call 1, oh how very wrong those ppl where, the genre has a very long way to go before anyone could consider the market being unable to support another AAA MMO.
I'd also add that the combat roles and group dynamic will not be the same, as I mentioned on the page just before this (edit: drat, two pages ago).
He/She is using the same ESP skills that the others are who tell everyone it's a crap game/WoW Clone.
Played WoW and it is already been said a bazillion times that TOR is a story-based mmo with some actual true meaning with real decisons that effect gameplay. WoW is nothing like that at all. WoW is not fully voiced and it does not have advanced classes. So why people are saying it is a WoW clone is beyond me. Maybe the WoW fdiehards actually fear that theere is actually a better mmo to play ? Who knows.
I'm sure you know this because you've played the game.
Played WoW and it is already been said a bazillion times that TOR is a story-based mmo with some actual true meaning with real decisons that effect gameplay. WoW is nothing like that at all. WoW is also fully voiced and it does not have advanced classes. So why people are saying it is a WoW clone is beyond me. Maybe the WoW fdiehards actually fear that theere is actually a better mmo tp play ? Who knows.
So you don't think that Bioware would try and hype their game and what they say is completely factual?
You're as delusional as the rest.
I guess you never played a Bioware game before or maybe even realize how good of a company Bioware has been for the past 15 years.
I look forward to having a jedi/sith with my own ship that I use to go between large open worlds.
but not too excited about a 'Star Wars' game that relies on the old and tired 'tank, heal, dps' mechanic, which has never been very realistic or fun anyway.
enimies that only attack the guy with the most health are boring and mind-numbingly predictable ( i know it requires hate, threat, or w/e, but it's ridiculous that this is still the main mmo mechanic after all these years).
A tank and a healer make sense in DnD style games but when did jedis heal in the Star Wars films? and why have tanks if you are just going to let guys with blasters do it anyway?
so these are my concerns-
-combat gameplay
-available races
-immersion of worlds
Also... I hardly quest in MMO's. I make it my own game and do as i like, even in themeparks where it might be more restricting. a huge storyline buff is not what i will pay a monthly sub for. i can play a console game if i want a storyline shoved in my face. I make my own plot with the army of alts i create in any game. in fact, when an MMO keeps creating my direction for me, i reject it and just go do as i like anyway. THAT is why i pay a monthly fee for an MMO. the ability to do as I like in a massive enviroment, along with throngs of others who may or may not have a similar playstyle.
alot of people fail to realize that the quests in alot of mmo's aren't involved in the main storyline because they are not intended to be. WoW was meant to be the downtime between wars, until TBC and WOTLK, so the old world quests were not supposed to be revolved around the MAIN plot of Azeroth. and if you play the xpacs they do revolve around the plot. not to mention, if you actually read all the books in the old world, and talk to all the NPC's, you can learn almost anything there is to know about the Warcraft IP. the fact that you have to pay attention, read, and search for it ( for instance a tomb somewhere of an old hero from the IP), is what makes it similar to real life, where one has to pay attention and search for answers as well.
it has already been shown that SWTOR will have the same old 'kill x amount of y' type of quest and i'm sure escort quests, delivery, and every other style quest that has been done in years past will also be in the game. and the 'seperate player plot' will just be a very drawn out version of class quests. this does not bother me. it's what is expected from an MMO and this game is not going to change anything too drastically.
do i think it will deliver a fun experience? yes. i plan of getting it when it launches but I'm not going to pretend that it is going to break the mold in the mmo world. it will be popular because of who is making it, the IP, and because Bioware will most likely be smart enough to launch a finished game.
Can you dig up 5 examples of Bioware lying about game features in the last 15 years? I can't think of a single one. They have a reputation for being honest and careful about what they say for a very good reason.
DOES NO ONE READ MY POSTS!?
TOR is not at all limited to Holy Trinity combat, the Devs have been explicit on this more than once. Heck, they've said you don't even need a healer. And there are many combat videos that show "tanks" don't hold aggro on everything like they would in WoW (and it probably isn't even a realistic goal).
so all you are saying is that is is similar in that aspect with CoH/CoV? i don't think you're saying anything I didn't already know. we all saw that video with the jedi healer and soldier tanking with a blaster. it's nothing to be ashamed of. just not what i think of when i think 'Star Wars'.
A video where a Dev posted on the forums talking about how combat in it was intentionally dumbed down and the Consular was deliberately standing back and only healing since he was providing the viewpoint of the fight.
Personally I think dumbing down their combat example was a really bad idea. They did it for new players, supposedly, but they aren't going to think it looks very Star Wars-y, ad older MMO players aren't either. That said, it is what they intentionally did so ironically their combat demo wasn't a good demo of their combat.
Here's the link again (provided it two pages ago):
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3180271#edit3180271
Link is nice, but better maybe to just copy the text in. They're talking about the video many have seen and are referring to:
"This is a great thread and it's nice to see so many of the discussions that take place within BioWare echoed among the fans. I'm actually in the booth now helping play through these demos (as the Jedi Knight--woot!), and this thread grabbed my attention. A lot of good points have been made already here to clarify what the multiplayer demo implies and what the takeway is, but I think it's worth a few more comments:
- For the purpose of this multiplayer demo, we wanted to keep the 'team combat dynamic' simple and easy to understand. Furthermore, the Consular acts as the healer and as the 'camera' for the demo, so she isn't necessarily playing exactly as she would in a normal playthrough. We wanted her to stay back from the action to provide a wide-angle view of the entire scene. Thus, where she might have run into to strike a few blows for righteousness in a regular group battle, she has to minimize that to keep the view right.
- One of the other things to keep in mind is that these are level 8-10 level characters, and none of them have begun to train as "advanced classes". New strategies for team combat develop as characters get new skills, get higher level powers, and select specializations. Keep in mind also, that the demo is designed so that people who may not be MMO veterans can understand it also.
- There also seems to be some confusion about the primary classes being locked into primary roles. The Sith Warrior has two advanced classes; the Juggernaut and the Marauder. One is a better track for a 'tank', the other is more of a damage-dealer. The paradigm of advanced classes is designed to provide branching options so that all primary classes have at least two options for the types of role they will play in groups. Beyond that even, there are further specialization/customization options that will give characters additional variety in the types of roles they can play.
To sum up, don't assume too much from one example of four-player team combat that we're showing at E3. We hope you like the team dynamic we're showing to folks here, but we don't want you guys to read too much into it. At a later date, we'll definitely try to show you some different strategies and team dynamics so you can get a better idea of the breadth of the experience of team combat in TOR.
Eventually, we look forward to you guys getting your hands on the game to find out for yourselves!"
The important stuff I colored in red.
Besides the enhancement upon the standard or traditional healer/dps/tank combat via the advanced classes and customisations that won't lock anyone in a specific role, also the influence of the Companions shouldn't be forgotten.
The way they've explained it is they're sort of enhanced pets or the Heroes in GW.
Like for example if you have 1 tank-like Class (or tank-fitted) and 2 dps-fitted Classes, you don't have to wait specifically for a healing-fitted class for your final spot. Instead you can bring your friend or guildie or any other class for that final spot, and bring 4 healing Companions with you and still do well. The same applies if you lack cc or dps, just bring the Companions along that are suited to fill the gap.
Combined with the multifunctionality of each class, the versatility and flexibility that Companions bring will help break the classic healer-tank-dps team setup. It'll be no longer what class a group still need, but what classes a group has, and let the Companions fill up any gap. And in contrast with the Heroes in GW, they will not fill up a team spot.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Cheers Cyphers. Although I would like to emphasise to those who still are holding onto the notion that the Consular is primarily a heal bot class in SWTOR:
" Furthermore, the Consular acts as the healer and as the 'camera' for the demo, so she isn't necessarily playing exactly as she would in a normal playthrough."
Is that big enough to get it through to certain individuals?
Anyone who's played AOC will understand the flexible group composition design that Bioware are trying to put into SWTOR.
Multiple classes can have multiple roles depending on how their player sets them up to play and how their group needs them to play. DPS'ers CAN be tank classes, tank classes CAN be dps'ers, healers CAN be dps'ers. The likes of WoW, AOC and many others showed how this can be possible (dual speccing, natural innate abilities to facilitate multiple roles, etc, etc).
To those who want to jump on AOC's current popularity status: No, just because AOC isn't incredibly popular doesn't mean that the flexibility in group composition is necessarily a flawed concept.
Does this mean that SWTOR is a "wow clone"? Does it hell as like. And anyone who thinks that really needs to lookup the definition of "clone".
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
I am amazed at the amount of people who do not really understand the title of this thread.
The funny thing is, if you actually ask people who moan about lack of innovation and that everything is a wow clone just how THEY would design an MMO, then not many, if any, could actually tell you what to replace the EQ-like gameplay with.
Many will point to "sandbox" designs and say how Indie MMO's should be given a chance. When the truth of the matter is such MMO's are often seen as bland, shallow and made by devs who really wouldn't know the definition of "quality" if it bit them in the ass.
Some would no doubt spout on about "innovation" like its some kind of magic wand that will fix everything. But when asked for details as to what THEY would consider as "innovative" many wouldn't be able to answer. It's like a child whining how they want sweets, but when you ask them what kind, they say "I dunno". So, unless they can provide a better alternative then they should just belt up and carry on playing Darkfall, Fallen Earth and Eve.
The simple fact is that it's not Blizzards, SOEs or Funcoms fault if the rest of the world considers many of the sandbox MMOs as not being as good as themepark MMO's. And people DON'T love Themepark MMO's ONLY because the sandbox ones are seen as crap either. To believe otherwise is just pure arrogance. Sometimes people just prefer a particular design, regardless of the competition. Survival of the fittest.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's