Never really stopped, but also never entered the "do that one dungeon/instance" over and over again.
If I raid I do so for the fun of it, the excitement, the discovery, so when I do it it's often just 1 time at the same dungeon/instance, or very rare perhaps 2 times, but never been into raiding for the gear/loot or what ever items you get rewarded for doing them.
Also when I want to raid something I like to do so in a openworld and not some reset instance, just see a town full of guards, NPC's and what ever in that open worlds for all to see and actually raid such a town with a large group of people, to me that's raiding. What seems to be raiding these day's are just multiplayer type of lobby raids except with more people on the battlegrounds then your regular mulitplayer games.
Still W O U L D love to raid just there are some problems: no game with challenging highend pve outthere
- most raidguilds are requiring fucking voice tools
- it the challenge isn't there its hard to have fun beeing focused
- raidsize not as epic as I'm used to 40, 50, 72+
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I would like to figure out why people stop raiding and if I can relate to them.
I stopped raiding because it felt like a second job to me after a while, because you were "forced" to log into a certain time-slot. I didn't really have fun listening to so many directions either.
Raiding is fun, it just seems like games don't do it the right way when many seem to burn out and quit.
Do you have a story about raiding and why you quit? Post it here.
Several reasons. First, it was taking up way too much time(this was back when 40 man raids were the norm), and it was multiple times a week. Next, there was all of the drama. Finally, I just don't have the focus required for that extended period of time any more. My limit these days is the weekly. Mostly its the 5 man heroics.
Still W O U L D love to raid just there are some problems: no game with challenging highend pve outthere
- most raidguilds are requiring fucking voice tools
- it the challenge isn't there its hard to have fun beeing focused
- raidsize not as epic as I'm used to 40, 50, 72+
So you have already done ICC 25 man in World of Warcraft?
I wrote challenging.
Having a tool named Bigwigs showing me every boss action, a x % buff stacking every week or so? and da raidleader guiding me like a baby is not challenging its braindead. I'm not used to that kind of """challenge"""
ps: aren't playing this game since over a year and no intention ever coming back.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Back in WoW (the only game where i have ever hit the cap) i got to raid 5 times before BC came out. After that i just could never bring myself to hit the cap just for raids.
If i am ever given the chance again i will certainly raid til i can't raid no more as i have yet to really experaince that side of MMO's (and most people seemed happy for 6 months-2 years doing it).
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Still W O U L D love to raid just there are some problems: no game with challenging highend pve outthere
- most raidguilds are requiring fucking voice tools
- it the challenge isn't there its hard to have fun beeing focused
- raidsize not as epic as I'm used to 40, 50, 72+
So you have already done ICC 25 man in World of Warcraft?
I wrote challenging.
Having a tool named Bigwigs showing me every boss action, a x % buff stacking every week or so? and da raidleader guiding me like a baby is not challenging its braindead. I'm not used to that kind of """challenge"""
ps: aren't playing this game since over a year and no intention ever coming back.
And that's the sad part about raiding. It has indeed become a babywalk. Even hardcore players tell their members to get all kinds of addons to help them, but the addons are practically playing the game for them. So many games have become all about pushing one or two buttons.
You're joking, right? WoW has TWO end-game options and that's IT. You can either do PvP (arenas), or raid.
There are other activities you can do that aren't end-game per se, but they are all either extremely grindy (trade skills, achievements, etc) or doing it with WoW is just rather silly (RP, which is better done with other games). The grindy stuff is NOT challenging, just time consuming. Most people don't enjoy grind. There's a good reason why most of WoW was initially made with the idea of minimizing grind compared to older MMOs -- hardly anyone finds it fun.
The only MMO's that I ever did raiding in was DAOC (which I hated) and WOW during the early years but it was a mixed bag.
The first time my guild downed Ragnaros in MC it was a real achievement, this was before there were guides all over the internet and we were the 3rd guild on our server to figure out how to do it. Then they bumped up his difficulty and we had to figure it out again, and came in 2nd that time around.
I left the game about that time and when I returned it was on a different server and a new guild. That time around we went alll the way through AQ 40, and while it felt good complete the content, there was something missing because we were mostly following other people's scripts, (dungeon with the 4 horseman was the new content w/o many guides back then but we never got there)
I had a full set of gear from the instances that I ran (sometimes ad nasuem in the case of MC) and then they announced the 'features' of BC, which my guild quickly realized would make obsolete all of our efforts by level 62 and we'd be back on the treadmill again grinding up faction, or obtaining some sort of ice, fire, or whatever resistance gear to accomodate it.
Couple this with the elimination of 40 man raids and it created a schism in my guild that caused it to implode as the player with more time broke away from the more casual and the fun really started to evaporate from the game for me.
Finally, couple that with the fact that many raids back then took 4-6 hours some nights and I'd be up until 2:00 am and having to wake up at 6:00. One day around 5:00 pm I went dead out at my desk at work and a more senior manager had to wake me up and told me I should go home.
That was pretty much the kicker, I decided the rewards weren't really worth that much and I certainly didn't want to rinse and repeat the process through 10 new levels and new dungeons.
I haven't gone back to raiding since and I doubt I'll ever seriously play an MMO that has PVE raiding as its core endgame ever again.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What I really want is a game where I can take a piece of territory and deny you access to it unless you pay me tribute. Violate this and I get to kill you unrelentlessly and take your stuff.
I don't want to be tied to a faction, I want it to be guild vs guild and I want to be able to build keeps/casltes that I will hold against all comers meanwhile tearing down all that they hold dear.
I want my PVP to be towards these purposes, not just mindless ganking for to run up some sort of artifical score, and I want it to be against those that I consider to be guild enemies.
I want large scale alliances that work together, and then turn around later and stab each other in the back. I want diplomacy to really, really matter, and I want my crafted goods to be the best items in the game, that everyone buys vs some item that drops in a dungeon.
As you can see, WOW really doesn't offer anything much like that, other than water-down versions of the mechanics hence I don't play it anymore.
Long ago I did have hopes they'd provide alternate rule set servers that would be more to my liking (because back in the day, every MMO offered such options) but Blizzard chose not to deliver them despite the fact they have more finanical resources available to them to pull it off than the early games like DAOC did. (disappointing)
And yet, despite all that I desire above, I am actually a carebear at heart who only likes to fight when there's a cause on the line, (and who has no problem running when the situation calls for it) and doesn't care for griefing.
So I'm enjoying EVE atm and wouldn't mind seeing more games like L2 or DAOC (FFA servers) come out.
And no matter, what, the game can leave out the concept of end game pve raiding, especially if it is done to grind for gear upgrades.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I would like to figure out why people stop raiding and if I can relate to them.
I stopped raiding because it felt like a second job to me after a while, because you were "forced" to log into a certain time-slot. I didn't really have fun listening to so many directions either.
Raiding is fun, it just seems like games don't do it the right way when many seem to burn out and quit.
Do you have a story about raiding and why you quit? Post it here.
I only play games for fun.
I raided -for a bit- jus to see the content, and I needed to be stronger to be a bit more competitive in the game.
Realizing that the raiding was only a start for more raiding I saw that I would never be done.....as soon as I would have my gear on my character, a new dungeon would be released and I would have to start all over.
Also the fact that I just raided to be a bit more competitive in other areas (like battlegrounds+world PVP, the reasons why I started to play those games in the first place) made it more easy to quit as I saw that 99% was doing PVE and the devs+players totally lost sight of the other content ingame besides raiding dungeons.
I raided to support my fun in world pvp, and I did not play to simply raid. I already commit myself to be at a specific place on a specific time and do some stuff they want me to do...it's called a JOB and it pays MUCH better...
Extra thing was that my "friends" were no fun to play with, they were just using you to reach their own goal.....
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
What I really want is a game where I can take a piece of territory and deny you access to it unless you pay me tribute. Violate this and I get to kill you unrelentlessly and take your stuff.
I don't want to be tied to a faction, I want it to be guild vs guild and I want to be able to build keeps/casltes that I will hold against all comers meanwhile tearing down all that they hold dear.
I want my PVP to be towards these purposes, not just mindless ganking for to run up some sort of artifical score, and I want it to be against those that I consider to be guild enemies.
I want large scale alliances that work together, and then turn around later and stab each other in the back. I want diplomacy to really, really matter, and I want my crafted goods to be the best items in the game, that everyone buys vs some item that drops in a dungeon.
As you can see, WOW really doesn't offer anything much like that, other than water-down versions of the mechanics hence I don't play it anymore.
Long ago I did have hopes they'd provide alternate rule set servers that would be more to my liking (because back in the day, every MMO offered such options) but Blizzard chose not to deliver them despite the fact they have more finanical resources available to them to pull it off than the early games like DAOC did. (disappointing)
And yet, despite all that I desire above, I am actually a carebear at heart who only likes to fight when there's a cause on the line, (and who has no problem running when the situation calls for it) and doesn't care for griefing.
So I'm enjoying EVE atm and wouldn't mind seeing more games like L2 or DAOC (FFA servers) come out.
And no matter, what, the game can leave out the concept of end game pve raiding, especially if it is done to grind for gear upgrades.
This only works if you can find 100k to 300k like minded players to go along with your version of how things should work. Good luck with that when you cannot even get 100 people on this website to agree to discuss topics with civility and manners. Sorry but most people need different levels of supervision, guidance and interaction. And as long as these issues differ so greatly among the MMO population then you will never get a game high enough on the radar to make sure scenarios like the one you describe have enough players to act out.
Then again usually when you place that much power in the hands of your players, their character comes in to question. And it usually ends with names like elitist scum, pompous ass tool and stuck up dick being thrown around.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I stopped raiding after two raids. Why? Because I found out that if you aren't personal buddies with the person who started the raid team. You got nothing in the way of loot. You were there to "help" the raid "in-crowd" get what they wanted and if you bitched about it you were flamed in general chat.
The only raids that I am familar with are within two games, AO and WoW. I throughly enjoyed the PvP/raid type of doing Tara. While a few of the other outdoor bosses where fun as well. It was due to moving in RL that I had to stop and then lost contact with all my friends when I came back to AO. So that sorta killed the game for me.
WoW well..it was fun raiding. For me its just doing an epic dungeon, even if you do it thirty times, if it is with the right people that you click with it can be fun. However due to guild drama the guild imploded and I floundered for awhile just doing odd stuff on my hunter, soloing old instances and the like. Then came ICC and it sorta renewed my interest in the whole raid affiar. But many of the people that I ran with had no professionlism or control over the group. Not starting on time, pulling when not ready etc etc. Though I guess in the end it just felt..grindy. The bosses and such felt like all you had to do was mob them with no need for tactics. I enjoy resonable challenges, and overcoming them with people that are fun to hangout with. WoW just had seemed to lose both those aspects so I quit raiding and then shortly thereafter the game entirely.
I never minded the time commitment. That was just a matter of picking a guild that raids during my free time.
The two big issues for me were the personalities and the loot distribution.
There are so many unpleasant people in raid groups and I got to where I just couldn't tolerate them anymore.
Also, inevitably the loot goes to guild officers and their closest friends. Whatever the loot rules are claimed to be is just a way to make that happen. My favorite is the 'Loot Council." Lol, what a farce.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Still W O U L D love to raid just there are some problems: no game with challenging highend pve outthere
- most raidguilds are requiring fucking voice tools
- it the challenge isn't there its hard to have fun beeing focused
- raidsize not as epic as I'm used to 40, 50, 72+
So you have already done ICC 25 man in World of Warcraft?
I wrote challenging.
Having a tool named Bigwigs showing me every boss action, a x % buff stacking every week or so? and da raidleader guiding me like a baby is not challenging its braindead. I'm not used to that kind of """challenge"""
ps: aren't playing this game since over a year and no intention ever coming back.
Excuses.
If you can't do ICC 25, don't say it is not challenging. If you can't do the bosses WITH dbm help & buff ... and you still say it is not challenging?
Sure .. i can play the same game too. Nobel prize research is not challenging. Just that i don't want to do it.
I stopped raiding after two raids. Why? Because I found out that if you aren't personal buddies with the person who started the raid team. You got nothing in the way of loot. You were there to "help" the raid "in-crowd" get what they wanted and if you bitched about it you were flamed in general chat.
I stopped raiding after two raids. Why? Because I found out that if you aren't personal buddies with the person who started the raid team. You got nothing in the way of loot. You were there to "help" the raid "in-crowd" get what they wanted and if you bitched about it you were flamed in general chat.
Have you heard of rolling for loot?
Sure. Thats seldom an option in many raids. It either goes by DKP or some other such. In many groups its a matter of whose circle you are in. Thats just the nature of these things.
I stopped because the hassles outweighed the gameplay/fun.
I mostly play games for fun gameplay, and raiding has some cool fights, but when you stack up all the little ways raiding isn't fun it becomes too much of a hassle.
I suppose the main hassle is that in raiding you give up nearly all control over your character's progression and put it in the hands of this group. This means that either (A) you reach a deadend at some point and don't progress because your teammates aren't skilled enough, or (B) you guild-jump to find a better guild. I may value gameplay over social elements in games, but I'm not quite antisocial enough to guild-jump constantly once I've found a group of friends (who I genuinely like playing with, even if they eventually deadend my progress.)
If personal contribution mattered and was rated more important by games, I might go back to raiding at some point
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
While I have certainly raided in the past, it was never much fun and that's why I don't do it. It's a giant time-waster, it's sitting around for long periods doing nothing, waiting for everyone to get together, then running in for some action. I don't have the time to waste sitting there waiting, I could be out doing something I actually consider fun.
So I don't raid. I don't want to raid. I don't plan on ever raiding again. It's dull.
I'm not raiding right now because there aren't any games with good raid scenes right now. Aion's attempt failed completely, LotRO's is kinda cool, but this switch to free to play is going to ruin it, DDO never had much, EQ2's is rather dated, WoW's is gutted completely. Allods could have had cool endgame, but free to play ruined that, too. Raiding is great, and I miss it.
Important facts: 1. Free to Play games are poorly made. 2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals. 3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE. 4. Community is more important than you think.
I was raiding hardcore in EQ on the Vallon Zek and later the Zek server. While it was satisfying to have a gear advantage over others in PvP it also meant to constantly raid to be competitive for the good drops with the DKP system.
Eventually, I saw the light and stopped playing from one day to the other. I just broke the cycle of new expansion -> level to new cap -> farm new gear. I simply logged out one day and never logged back in. It's like a switch clicked in my brain.
It was totally easy to get off that drug for me.
Since then, I never even came close to get that immersed into an MMO. If i notice I start to sink into it, something inside me immediately revolts and holds me back. I then call some friends and go out have some drinks.
I just play MMOs to have fun now, without responsibilities. I just want to be able to log on, have some fun and log off. I don't like the thought of "having to be there" to stay competitive.
Log in, have some fun, log off. No regrets and no remorse.
I'm not raiding right now because there aren't any games with good raid scenes right now. Aion's attempt failed completely, LotRO's is kinda cool, but this switch to free to play is going to ruin it, DDO never had much, EQ2's is rather dated, WoW's is gutted completely. Allods could have had cool endgame, but free to play ruined that, too. Raiding is great, and I miss it.
QFT
As someone mentioned even so called hardcore guilds are requiring stupid addons, voice tools these days. Its just not thrilling if you are looking for a good time hearing others talking in TS about their life and other NON raidstuff while waiting and waiting. So in my last raiding weeks I started pissed and at some point realising that this game will never ever become as challenging as BC raiding were + wellfare epics everywhere this was the final nail on the head.
Don't know why some people still keep mentioning braindead stuff such as achievements as something to looking for. I've never enjoyed them and in reality felt pissed about doing a dungeon I did xxx times before in achievement mode...its cheap and stupid game design even more than instancing.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I would like to figure out why people stop raiding and if I can relate to them.
I stopped raiding because it felt like a second job to me after a while, because you were "forced" to log into a certain time-slot. I didn't really have fun listening to so many directions either.
Raiding is fun, it just seems like games don't do it the right way when many seem to burn out and quit.
Do you have a story about raiding and why you quit? Post it here.
For me it was some of what you indicate in your note. Also the other items that bugged me were the time delays and the waiting for this "one" person or another that just seemed to drag the whole raid formation up further. It never seemed to matter in what kind of raiding guild I was in be it hardcore or casual there were always a few people that held up the whole works. Another issue that cropped up regularly were the egos of the people involved and the drama that those egos would create. I quit my favorite MMO purely over the drama of the guild I was in and the friends who also left the game in turn made it unappealing to go back. I've actually gone back twice to see if I could get back into the game but with my closest friends gone I just couldn't get back into the game.
Comments
Never really stopped, but also never entered the "do that one dungeon/instance" over and over again.
If I raid I do so for the fun of it, the excitement, the discovery, so when I do it it's often just 1 time at the same dungeon/instance, or very rare perhaps 2 times, but never been into raiding for the gear/loot or what ever items you get rewarded for doing them.
Also when I want to raid something I like to do so in a openworld and not some reset instance, just see a town full of guards, NPC's and what ever in that open worlds for all to see and actually raid such a town with a large group of people, to me that's raiding. What seems to be raiding these day's are just multiplayer type of lobby raids except with more people on the battlegrounds then your regular mulitplayer games.
Still W O U L D love to raid just there are some problems: no game with challenging highend pve outthere
- most raidguilds are requiring fucking voice tools
- it the challenge isn't there its hard to have fun beeing focused
- raidsize not as epic as I'm used to 40, 50, 72+
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
So you have already done ICC 25 man in World of Warcraft?
Eleanor Rigby.
Several reasons. First, it was taking up way too much time(this was back when 40 man raids were the norm), and it was multiple times a week. Next, there was all of the drama. Finally, I just don't have the focus required for that extended period of time any more. My limit these days is the weekly. Mostly its the 5 man heroics.
I wrote challenging.
Having a tool named Bigwigs showing me every boss action, a x % buff stacking every week or so? and da raidleader guiding me like a baby is not challenging its braindead. I'm not used to that kind of """challenge"""
ps: aren't playing this game since over a year and no intention ever coming back.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I wasn't given a choice.
Back in WoW (the only game where i have ever hit the cap) i got to raid 5 times before BC came out. After that i just could never bring myself to hit the cap just for raids.
If i am ever given the chance again i will certainly raid til i can't raid no more as i have yet to really experaince that side of MMO's (and most people seemed happy for 6 months-2 years doing it).
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
And that's the sad part about raiding. It has indeed become a babywalk. Even hardcore players tell their members to get all kinds of addons to help them, but the addons are practically playing the game for them. So many games have become all about pushing one or two buttons.
Eleanor Rigby.
You're joking, right? WoW has TWO end-game options and that's IT. You can either do PvP (arenas), or raid.
There are other activities you can do that aren't end-game per se, but they are all either extremely grindy (trade skills, achievements, etc) or doing it with WoW is just rather silly (RP, which is better done with other games). The grindy stuff is NOT challenging, just time consuming. Most people don't enjoy grind. There's a good reason why most of WoW was initially made with the idea of minimizing grind compared to older MMOs -- hardly anyone finds it fun.
The only MMO's that I ever did raiding in was DAOC (which I hated) and WOW during the early years but it was a mixed bag.
The first time my guild downed Ragnaros in MC it was a real achievement, this was before there were guides all over the internet and we were the 3rd guild on our server to figure out how to do it. Then they bumped up his difficulty and we had to figure it out again, and came in 2nd that time around.
I left the game about that time and when I returned it was on a different server and a new guild. That time around we went alll the way through AQ 40, and while it felt good complete the content, there was something missing because we were mostly following other people's scripts, (dungeon with the 4 horseman was the new content w/o many guides back then but we never got there)
I had a full set of gear from the instances that I ran (sometimes ad nasuem in the case of MC) and then they announced the 'features' of BC, which my guild quickly realized would make obsolete all of our efforts by level 62 and we'd be back on the treadmill again grinding up faction, or obtaining some sort of ice, fire, or whatever resistance gear to accomodate it.
Couple this with the elimination of 40 man raids and it created a schism in my guild that caused it to implode as the player with more time broke away from the more casual and the fun really started to evaporate from the game for me.
Finally, couple that with the fact that many raids back then took 4-6 hours some nights and I'd be up until 2:00 am and having to wake up at 6:00. One day around 5:00 pm I went dead out at my desk at work and a more senior manager had to wake me up and told me I should go home.
That was pretty much the kicker, I decided the rewards weren't really worth that much and I certainly didn't want to rinse and repeat the process through 10 new levels and new dungeons.
I haven't gone back to raiding since and I doubt I'll ever seriously play an MMO that has PVE raiding as its core endgame ever again.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What I really want is a game where I can take a piece of territory and deny you access to it unless you pay me tribute. Violate this and I get to kill you unrelentlessly and take your stuff.
I don't want to be tied to a faction, I want it to be guild vs guild and I want to be able to build keeps/casltes that I will hold against all comers meanwhile tearing down all that they hold dear.
I want my PVP to be towards these purposes, not just mindless ganking for to run up some sort of artifical score, and I want it to be against those that I consider to be guild enemies.
I want large scale alliances that work together, and then turn around later and stab each other in the back. I want diplomacy to really, really matter, and I want my crafted goods to be the best items in the game, that everyone buys vs some item that drops in a dungeon.
As you can see, WOW really doesn't offer anything much like that, other than water-down versions of the mechanics hence I don't play it anymore.
Long ago I did have hopes they'd provide alternate rule set servers that would be more to my liking (because back in the day, every MMO offered such options) but Blizzard chose not to deliver them despite the fact they have more finanical resources available to them to pull it off than the early games like DAOC did. (disappointing)
And yet, despite all that I desire above, I am actually a carebear at heart who only likes to fight when there's a cause on the line, (and who has no problem running when the situation calls for it) and doesn't care for griefing.
So I'm enjoying EVE atm and wouldn't mind seeing more games like L2 or DAOC (FFA servers) come out.
And no matter, what, the game can leave out the concept of end game pve raiding, especially if it is done to grind for gear upgrades.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I only play games for fun.
I raided -for a bit- jus to see the content, and I needed to be stronger to be a bit more competitive in the game.
Realizing that the raiding was only a start for more raiding I saw that I would never be done.....as soon as I would have my gear on my character, a new dungeon would be released and I would have to start all over.
Also the fact that I just raided to be a bit more competitive in other areas (like battlegrounds+world PVP, the reasons why I started to play those games in the first place) made it more easy to quit as I saw that 99% was doing PVE and the devs+players totally lost sight of the other content ingame besides raiding dungeons.
I raided to support my fun in world pvp, and I did not play to simply raid. I already commit myself to be at a specific place on a specific time and do some stuff they want me to do...it's called a JOB and it pays MUCH better...
Extra thing was that my "friends" were no fun to play with, they were just using you to reach their own goal.....
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
This only works if you can find 100k to 300k like minded players to go along with your version of how things should work. Good luck with that when you cannot even get 100 people on this website to agree to discuss topics with civility and manners. Sorry but most people need different levels of supervision, guidance and interaction. And as long as these issues differ so greatly among the MMO population then you will never get a game high enough on the radar to make sure scenarios like the one you describe have enough players to act out.
Then again usually when you place that much power in the hands of your players, their character comes in to question. And it usually ends with names like elitist scum, pompous ass tool and stuck up dick being thrown around.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I stopped raiding after two raids. Why? Because I found out that if you aren't personal buddies with the person who started the raid team. You got nothing in the way of loot. You were there to "help" the raid "in-crowd" get what they wanted and if you bitched about it you were flamed in general chat.
The only raids that I am familar with are within two games, AO and WoW. I throughly enjoyed the PvP/raid type of doing Tara. While a few of the other outdoor bosses where fun as well. It was due to moving in RL that I had to stop and then lost contact with all my friends when I came back to AO. So that sorta killed the game for me.
WoW well..it was fun raiding. For me its just doing an epic dungeon, even if you do it thirty times, if it is with the right people that you click with it can be fun. However due to guild drama the guild imploded and I floundered for awhile just doing odd stuff on my hunter, soloing old instances and the like. Then came ICC and it sorta renewed my interest in the whole raid affiar. But many of the people that I ran with had no professionlism or control over the group. Not starting on time, pulling when not ready etc etc. Though I guess in the end it just felt..grindy. The bosses and such felt like all you had to do was mob them with no need for tactics. I enjoy resonable challenges, and overcoming them with people that are fun to hangout with. WoW just had seemed to lose both those aspects so I quit raiding and then shortly thereafter the game entirely.
I never minded the time commitment. That was just a matter of picking a guild that raids during my free time.
The two big issues for me were the personalities and the loot distribution.
There are so many unpleasant people in raid groups and I got to where I just couldn't tolerate them anymore.
Also, inevitably the loot goes to guild officers and their closest friends. Whatever the loot rules are claimed to be is just a way to make that happen. My favorite is the 'Loot Council." Lol, what a farce.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Excuses.
If you can't do ICC 25, don't say it is not challenging. If you can't do the bosses WITH dbm help & buff ... and you still say it is not challenging?
Sure .. i can play the same game too. Nobel prize research is not challenging. Just that i don't want to do it.
Have you heard of rolling for loot?
Sure. Thats seldom an option in many raids. It either goes by DKP or some other such. In many groups its a matter of whose circle you are in. Thats just the nature of these things.
I stopped because the hassles outweighed the gameplay/fun.
I mostly play games for fun gameplay, and raiding has some cool fights, but when you stack up all the little ways raiding isn't fun it becomes too much of a hassle.
I suppose the main hassle is that in raiding you give up nearly all control over your character's progression and put it in the hands of this group. This means that either (A) you reach a deadend at some point and don't progress because your teammates aren't skilled enough, or (B) you guild-jump to find a better guild. I may value gameplay over social elements in games, but I'm not quite antisocial enough to guild-jump constantly once I've found a group of friends (who I genuinely like playing with, even if they eventually deadend my progress.)
If personal contribution mattered and was rated more important by games, I might go back to raiding at some point
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
While I have certainly raided in the past, it was never much fun and that's why I don't do it. It's a giant time-waster, it's sitting around for long periods doing nothing, waiting for everyone to get together, then running in for some action. I don't have the time to waste sitting there waiting, I could be out doing something I actually consider fun.
So I don't raid. I don't want to raid. I don't plan on ever raiding again. It's dull.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I'm not raiding right now because there aren't any games with good raid scenes right now. Aion's attempt failed completely, LotRO's is kinda cool, but this switch to free to play is going to ruin it, DDO never had much, EQ2's is rather dated, WoW's is gutted completely. Allods could have had cool endgame, but free to play ruined that, too. Raiding is great, and I miss it.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
I was raiding hardcore in EQ on the Vallon Zek and later the Zek server. While it was satisfying to have a gear advantage over others in PvP it also meant to constantly raid to be competitive for the good drops with the DKP system.
Eventually, I saw the light and stopped playing from one day to the other. I just broke the cycle of new expansion -> level to new cap -> farm new gear. I simply logged out one day and never logged back in. It's like a switch clicked in my brain.
It was totally easy to get off that drug for me.
Since then, I never even came close to get that immersed into an MMO. If i notice I start to sink into it, something inside me immediately revolts and holds me back. I then call some friends and go out have some drinks.
I just play MMOs to have fun now, without responsibilities. I just want to be able to log on, have some fun and log off. I don't like the thought of "having to be there" to stay competitive.
Log in, have some fun, log off. No regrets and no remorse.
QFT
As someone mentioned even so called hardcore guilds are requiring stupid addons, voice tools these days. Its just not thrilling if you are looking for a good time hearing others talking in TS about their life and other NON raidstuff while waiting and waiting. So in my last raiding weeks I started pissed and at some point realising that this game will never ever become as challenging as BC raiding were + wellfare epics everywhere this was the final nail on the head.
Don't know why some people still keep mentioning braindead stuff such as achievements as something to looking for. I've never enjoyed them and in reality felt pissed about doing a dungeon I did xxx times before in achievement mode...its cheap and stupid game design even more than instancing.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
For me it was some of what you indicate in your note. Also the other items that bugged me were the time delays and the waiting for this "one" person or another that just seemed to drag the whole raid formation up further. It never seemed to matter in what kind of raiding guild I was in be it hardcore or casual there were always a few people that held up the whole works. Another issue that cropped up regularly were the egos of the people involved and the drama that those egos would create. I quit my favorite MMO purely over the drama of the guild I was in and the friends who also left the game in turn made it unappealing to go back. I've actually gone back twice to see if I could get back into the game but with my closest friends gone I just couldn't get back into the game.
I stoped raiding cause dev's stoped making good raiding games .