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World of Darkness MMORPG? Any news?

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  • RamaelRamael Member Posts: 91

    It works from time to time. Even in EVE, high-sec ganking isn't particularly common (note: not unheard of, but is considered suicide nonetheless), and the only reason that works in general is because you can smite people from creation so quickly that CONCORD doesn't even have time to blow you up before you do it.

    nWoD's a bit lower in power than EVE ships tend to be. You can still be pretty powerful, but one-shotting non-mortals is not the easiest thing in the world to do.

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318

    Originally posted by Ramael

    It works from time to time. Even in EVE, high-sec ganking isn't particularly common (note: not unheard of, but is considered suicide nonetheless), and the only reason that works in general is because you can smite people from creation so quickly that CONCORD doesn't even have time to blow you up before you do it.

    nWoD's a bit lower in power than EVE ships tend to be. You can still be pretty powerful, but one-shotting non-mortals is not the easiest thing in the world to do.

    But thats not how the WoD works. Though Fledglings are harder to kill than mortals, they aren't THAT much harder to kill. A 500 year old Elder with Potence 5 could kill a 10 year old Neonate with Fortitude 2 in one shot because Potence 5 is the equivelent of 800 lbs since that means they get five autosuccesses on a strength roll. 

  • RamaelRamael Member Posts: 91

    nWoD's Vigor and oWoD's Potence are a bit different. Vigor simply adds an amount of dots equal to your score in it to your Strength total.

    Like I said, lower power level on average.

     

    Edit: I should probably elaborate a bit, since I realized my explanation probably made very little sense...

    Using your example, an elder with (hypothetically) Strength 5, and Vigor (Potence-equivalent) 5 would have an effective Strengh of 10. Target number in nWoD is always 7... it's the number of successes required for a task that acts as difficulty.

    Characters in nWoD have a number of health levels based on a numerical variable of their size (5 by default, for standard, human-sized being) + their Stamina. So the standard 7 by default, though it can be more. Resilience (Fortitude-equivalent) adds to Stamina in a 1:1 ratio (among other things), as Vigor does with Strength. Thus, a fledgeling with Stamina 2 and Resilience 2 would have 9 health levels (5+2+2).

    That said, 10's are also re-rolled. Hypothesizing just a straight roll with no additional modifiers (weapons, merits, etc.), the elder will likely roll an average of 4-6 successes, depending on his luck and how many 10-agains he gets. The fledgeling would get trounced pretty damn hard, but it'll still likely take another swing to crush him utterly.

    Of course, your average elder is going to have other modifiers, and likely wouldn't be foolish enough to just punch another vampire (seeing as how they've always taken bashing damage differently). But that's a matter of what each side has available to them, at that point.

  • Methos12Methos12 Member UncommonPosts: 1,244

    Originally posted by Ramael

    Hmm. I suppose the nWoD requires a little explanation.

    The best way to think of it is as its own seperate entity, distinct from the old World of Darkness most of us came to know and love throughout its lifespan. I personally like it more (Werewolves aren't fuzzy eco-terrorists; Mage is more about spells and less about hacking the universe with your mind; Hunter is more about humans fighting back instead of another supernatural fatsplat that gets the moral high ground against other supernaturals; Changeling doesn't have the same potential for being cartoon characters battling it out with brooms that are actually swords; etc.). If anything, I feel it's Vampire that doesn't have as much color as it rightly should, but that's more up to the players and the ST to decide than it once was.

    The Vampire: The Requiem equivalent of "sects" are Covenants, though they're more ideological differences than a matter of what you're embraced into. Any Clan can join any Covenant, and some vampires don't belong to any. There are five major ones:

    The Invictus are the equivalent of vampiric nobility. They're very much a rule by elders/influence group, and are somewhat similar to the old Inconnu, or the upper tiers of the old Camarilla.

    The Lancea Sanctum are the equivalent of vampiric clergy. They're highly religious, and tend to evoke a lot of the same imagery as older Inquisition-era Catholic viewpoints. Due to very old ties that go back to the dark ages, the Invictus and the Lance usually have somewhat close relationships.

    The Circle of the Crone usually run counter to the Lancea Sanctum. They're typically Pagan and have more of a mythological/mystical viewpoint. As such, their relations with the Lancea Sanctum and, by extension, the Invictus tend to be somewhat strained. They're not at outright, global war, though.

    The Carthian Movement usually run counter to the Invictus directly. Depending on your ST and your game, they can range from militant freedom-fighters to simple activists who favor a more democratic view of government. They believe in a 1 vampire = 1 vote kind of system, and despise the rule of the elite that the Invictus tends to embody. Once again, no outright war, but they certainly don't get along under most circumstances.

    Finally, the Ordo Dracul is the most neutral of the bunch. Usually described as being insular and academic, they focus most of their energies on studying the vampiric condition and finding ways to circumvent its flaws. They tend to follow the more "traditional" (IE Hollywood-inspired) views of vampire origins, drawing the origins back to Dracula.

    So there's that. There's also two pseudo-Covenants that are considered "Antagonist-Only".

    VII is a mysterious group of vampires that seems to hunt down vampires for the sole purpose of killing them. They're intentionally kept in the dark; a VII book was released, but it offers a number of options and ideas as to who they are, instead of an outright explanation.

    Belial's Brood is the standard, Baali-esque demon-loving cult of vampires. Nothing fancy, here; they sell themselves to demons for power, and use it for their own ends. Plain and simple.

    Now, all that said, most (though definitely not all) cities are still controlled by a Prince/equivalent, who likely belongs to one of the Big Five and does their damnedest to maintain order the way they want. A disproportionate amount are Invictus and Lancea Sanctum, by tradition, so their rules tend to be similar to what you know. Diablerie is still bad under most circumstances, as is killing other vampires without something remotely resembling a good reason. Because of the Covenants and the more localized systems of government, though, each city can have very different laws and "atmosphere" and is very much an expression and extension of the ruling power(s).

     

    FEAR THE WALL O' TEXT!

    (Editted for some clarity, and to hopefully make it easier to read)

    Thanks for the awesome write-up, should come in handy for newcomers when it comes to nWoD. I know people like to talk about oWoD and bring it into the discussion, but this MMO is basically 99% situated in the new one, plain and simple (only oWoD that WW really supports anyway is that vampire trading card game).

    I'm just insanely interested in what supernaturals they plan to offer on release, given that I doubt CCP is going to even cover the major 3 of the WoD (Mage, Vampire, Werewolf) well until some time after the game's release.

    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
  • NytakitoNytakito Member Posts: 381

    Well.. Releasing without Vampires would be a pretty huge mistake on CCP's part.. My guess is if we don't get em all at launch, Mages and Werewolves will be added in later..  Hopefully on a faster timeline than Walking in Stations for EVE.

    "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford

  • DawngreeterDawngreeter Member CommonPosts: 60

    "Making it a PvP free for all won't work because it relies on the players being mature when they simply aren't. There will need to be rules preventing griefing or most fans won't play it."

    I keep thinking this is a completely wrong line of thinking./ Completely open PvP. It's ridiculous. It's like, vampires runnign around city parks, killing each other. Or just running around if there's no PvP. I don't think that's what the game will be. I don't think "open PvP" as an idea has any meaning in the framework of WoD MMO.

     

    I base this on nothing but gut feeling based on what I keep hearing about the game.

  • azzalanazzalan Member Posts: 83

    Originally posted by Moirae

    Originally posted by azzalan



    I guess "Masquerade+ Humanity+ NPC Hunters+ Political system" is enough to keep vampires from going around killing each other.

    It isn't enough to keep humans from killing each other in real life, and it definitely won't be enough to keep undead and supernatural monsters played by humans from killing each other on a game where death doesn't matter unless you have perma death which would just tick off all said humans.


    I hope it isn't enough. No one wants to abolish PvP,  just control it.

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318

    Originally posted by azzalan

    Originally posted by Moirae


    Originally posted by azzalan



    I guess "Masquerade+ Humanity+ NPC Hunters+ Political system" is enough to keep vampires from going around killing each other.

    It isn't enough to keep humans from killing each other in real life, and it definitely won't be enough to keep undead and supernatural monsters played by humans from killing each other on a game where death doesn't matter unless you have perma death which would just tick off all said humans.


    I hope it isn't enough. No one wants to abolish PvP,  just control it.

    Me too. I can't stand that kind of garbage. I haven't liked a single PvP method in any game I've come across. The behavior thats allowed it just despicable.

  • JoliustJoliust Member Posts: 1,329

    The whole idea is to make PvP unwise in certain circumstances. Like the example about 1-shotting a new player in hi-sec. Sure you can do it but you are losing your ship and reputation if you have any. It isn't worth it at all.

    Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318

    Originally posted by Joliust

    The whole idea is to make PvP unwise in certain circumstances. Like the example about 1-shotting a new player in hi-sec. Sure you can do it but you are losing your ship and reputation if you have any. It isn't worth it at all.

    Thats one of the reasons I'd like them to use the Old Wod. The Masquerade was a a great deterent if there are real consequences.

  • JoliustJoliust Member Posts: 1,329

    Well if I remember correctly they aren't truly making a WoD MMO, as much as an MMO based on WoD. So we can anticipate them taking ideas from both nWoD and oWoD, and completely coming up with new features, and things to benefit the MMO. I am not saying I think they are going to completely bastardize the IP but I think(or at least hope) they wont sacrifice a good idea to just stay within the IP.

    Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.

  • RamaelRamael Member Posts: 91

    Originally posted by Moirae

    Originally posted by Joliust

    The whole idea is to make PvP unwise in certain circumstances. Like the example about 1-shotting a new player in hi-sec. Sure you can do it but you are losing your ship and reputation if you have any. It isn't worth it at all.

    Thats one of the reasons I'd like them to use the Old Wod. The Masquerade was a a great deterent if there are real consequences.

    The Masquerade's still an issue in nWoD. No worries, there. If anything, it's a slightly bigger issue, as you don't have the Sabbat running around, considering the Masquerade a moderate annoyance and nothing more. Hunters, being actual Hunters and not another supernatural fatsplat, tend to be fairly well-equipped to handling at least one specific kind of supernatural creature, so they're a constant hassle.

    The Big Three Traditions (Masquerade, don't embrace without permission, and don't diablerize except during a Blood Hunt) are pretty well established in almost any city. If they were to ignore them, that would be rather disappointing on a multitude of levels.

    Hmm... Blood Hunt... Now, that's a deterrent. Or, to use a CCP standard, the Sheriff's Hounds dropping Obfuscate right next to the perpetrator and pounding them into the dirt.

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318

    Originally posted by Ramael

    Originally posted by Moirae


    Originally posted by Joliust

    The whole idea is to make PvP unwise in certain circumstances. Like the example about 1-shotting a new player in hi-sec. Sure you can do it but you are losing your ship and reputation if you have any. It isn't worth it at all.

    Thats one of the reasons I'd like them to use the Old Wod. The Masquerade was a a great deterent if there are real consequences.

    The Masquerade's still an issue in nWoD. No worries, there. If anything, it's a slightly bigger issue, as you don't have the Sabbat running around, considering the Masquerade a moderate annoyance and nothing more. Hunters, being actual Hunters and not another supernatural fatsplat, tend to be fairly well-equipped to handling at least one specific kind of supernatural creature, so they're a constant hassle.

    The Big Three Traditions (Masquerade, don't embrace without permission, and don't diablerize except during a Blood Hunt) are pretty well established in almost any city. If they were to ignore them, that would be rather disappointing on a multitude of levels.

    Hmm... Blood Hunt... Now, that's a deterrent. Or, to use a CCP standard, the Sheriff's Hounds dropping Obfuscate right next to the perpetrator and pounding them into the dirt.

    Well, its good to hear the Masquerade is still intact, but then the question becomes "how do you prevent supernatural players from murdering each other in the streets so long as they think they can cover it up by running long enough".

    One of the problems with Vampire Bloodlines (I use it only as an example btw since its the only computer vampire game I've seen that did it right. I played Vtm on pen and paper since the mid 1990's) is that if you ran long enough and got away from the cops for a while, they'd forget about it and that would be the end of it, and the Prince, Scourge, or Sheriff did nothing about it.

  • RamaelRamael Member Posts: 91

    That is a good point. I hate to keep using EVE as an example, but... it's the closest thing we have to an idea of CCP's capabilities and idea structure.

    In EVE, there are sectors which are considered high-security. The law is heavily enforced; any breach of that law results in CONCORD, the NPC police force, literally appearing right beside you and annihilating you utterly, plus a loss of "standing" which can label you a pirate and generally make you unwelcome in high-security space.

    There's also low-security or null-security sectors, which are generally lawless. Barring the rare suicide-ganker (who suffer the penalties thereof), low-sec pirates and PvPers tend to stick to low-sec, and the PvE and less PvP-friendly stick to high-sec. Now, unfortunately for some, the best mining tends to be in that sec (risk/reward), but it can still be avoided if you so choose.

     

    If they broke the cit(y/ies) up into neighborhoods, or sectors, and made some areas less secure, while justice would be handed down swiftly in the bulk of it, would that be alright?

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318

    Originally posted by Ramael

    That is a good point. I hate to keep using EVE as an example, but... it's the closest thing we have to an idea of CCP's capabilities and idea structure.

    In EVE, there are sectors which are considered high-security. The law is heavily enforced; any breach of that law results in CONCORD, the NPC police force, literally appearing right beside you and annihilating you utterly, plus a loss of "standing" which can label you a pirate and generally make you unwelcome in high-security space.

    There's also low-security or null-security sectors, which are generally lawless. Barring the rare suicide-ganker (who suffer the penalties thereof), low-sec pirates and PvPers tend to stick to low-sec, and the PvE and less PvP-friendly stick to high-sec. Now, unfortunately for some, the best mining tends to be in that sec (risk/reward), but it can still be avoided if you so choose.

     

    If they broke the cit(y/ies) up into neighborhoods, or sectors, and made some areas less secure, while justice would be handed down swiftly in the bulk of it, would that be alright?

    Possibly.

    In the game, anywhere Elysium it is illegal to use Discplines by Camarilla standards. Not sure if that exists in nWod and that is not to say that it cannot be used at all, just that any obvious disciplines cannot be used. That means that disciplines such as Aupex are generally ok so long as you aren't caught actively using them. Reading auras, minds, and using potence and fortitudeare alot more difficult to detect than say using Majesty. Getting caught using an obvious discipline usually means the Sheriff will take a hand in the discipline and a massive loss of standing. The Prince of the city does not look on it lightly. Likely, unless you have the Princes favor (and probably not even then since it labels the Prince as weak and opens him to being challenged), at the least you will be banished from Elysium for a time which is very difficult for any Camarilla since thats the center of their society.

    Using disciplines among humans is, of course, forbidden. Though the human authorities may give up chasing you after a time, most kindred cities are heavily involved in the local law enforcement to better protect the masquerade and they WILL hear about it, which should lead to the Prince, and his cronies doing something about the problem. Punishments can go anywhere from a warning all the way to permanent death or even torture. Loss of limb is not an unusual punishment.

    There are area's where using any discipline is ok but usually that means not being around any humans of any sort, and not being in Elysium. The very last thing anyone wants is to bring an Archon or a Justicar into town.

    So yes, I suppose dividing it up into areas would work. But only if its done correctly. In any event, there would not be a large swath of places where using obvious disciplines is actually acceptable.

  • RamaelRamael Member Posts: 91

    nWoD is not too different, in that respect.



    I don't doubt that CCP will be able to manage it. The system in EVE works fairly well, except for the occasional suicide gankers, but they generally get what they deserve as a result.

    That said, that covers the Vampire aspect. I wonder if they'll add any of the others to the mix. PC Hunters would just be disruptive, and not very fun for anyone but them. The others play reasonably well with each other, and all have powers that would work surprisingly well in a coded environment, so what goes in is mostly up to CCP/White Wolf.

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318

    Originally posted by Ramael

    nWoD is not too different, in that respect.



    I don't doubt that CCP will be able to manage it. The system in EVE works fairly well, except for the occasional suicide gankers, but they generally get what they deserve as a result.

    That said, that covers the Vampire aspect. I wonder if they'll add any of the others to the mix. PC Hunters would just be disruptive, and not very fun for anyone but them. The others play reasonably well with each other, and all have powers that would work surprisingly well in a coded environment, so what goes in is mostly up to CCP/White Wolf.

    I doubt they'll add them with the opening release because Vampire has always been their best seller regardless of whether its Masquerade or Requiem. They will probably end up being part of expansions.

  • JoliustJoliust Member Posts: 1,329

    I am hoping that just do Vampires. I rather they really get that down right than trying to give us a lot of different "factions" to play as. There is enough to mess around with Vampires to keep them busy in development.

    Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.

  • MosaicMMosaicM Member Posts: 15

    Corporation, n: An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318

    Oh yes, I know about that. I live in New Orleans, and I work in the hospitality industry in the city. But it doesn't have anything to do with the MMORPG. It really does look like it will be fun though.

  • MosaicMMosaicM Member Posts: 15

    The rumor is that the "Future of WOD" that are going to reveal is actually WOD online. To me, that would make sense.

    Corporation, n: An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318

    Originally posted by MosaicM

    The rumor is that the "Future of WOD" that are going to reveal is actually WOD online. To me, that would make sense.

    That would be fantastic. I would LOVE an online WOD. Provided they do it right, of course.

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318

    I can't believe MMORPG didn't report this.

    Ladies and gentlemen, during the Grand Masquerade Ball Convention in New Orleans in September, CCP confirmed the release of a WOD MMO based on Vampire: The Masquerade. Thats right, Masquerade. 

    Other games, like Werewolf: The Apocalypse and Mage: The Ascension, will join later. 

    The link below is a teaser trailer for the game.

    http://www.gamespot.com/news/6279922.html

    Its a sandbox MMO with an emphasis on social aspects of the game. Other than that, nothing has been revealed, including a release date.

     

    YES!!!

  • RhenkarRhenkar Member UncommonPosts: 68

    Yes, Moirae, when I saw that news:

    http://www.massively.com/2010/09/24/world-of-darkness-confirmed-based-on-vampire-the-masquerade/

    I was freaking overjoyed. OLD World of Darkness, HELL YES!

    I'm wondering now if it'll take place in LA or such then and give a lore reason for the "increase" in vampires (players) via thin bloods.  Hmm, so much to think about.  I wonder if Beckett will be around, ehehe.

    ----------------------------
    "Hero of Time! Face me!"

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318

    Originally posted by Rhenkar

    Yes, Moirae, when I saw that news:

    http://www.massively.com/2010/09/24/world-of-darkness-confirmed-based-on-vampire-the-masquerade/

    I was freaking overjoyed. OLD World of Darkness, HELL YES!

    I'm wondering now if it'll take place in LA or such then and give a lore reason for the "increase" in vampires (players) via thin bloods.  Hmm, so much to think about.  I wonder if Beckett will be around, ehehe.

    I know. My husband and I are so excited. its the OWOD. OWOD is so much better storywise than NWOD (even though the NWOD mechanics are better).

     

    I LOVE OWOD. In fact, I'm even playing a Dark Ages tonight on Tabletop (we're going to Paris to meet Francois Villion... YAY!). Well... its more like a time between the Dark Ages and Masquerade since we're now in the time of King Louis the IX. 

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