I remember back in vanilla WoW where everything was so amazing, but if i take some time to think, it had more issues than now. People just stick to the great memories, which are those the recall rather than the bad. I havent played UO or EQ1 or whatever, i just doubt they were THAT good, that you would be sitting in a mass-orgasme the whole duration of your ingame time.
They weren't great. They had amazingingly serious problems (the whining was just as endless as today) but they were new and filled with a different community because it was a new market which greatly made up for the serious flaws.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
MMOs have suffered the same fate as other video games, and other similar passtimes. Nerds come up with something cool, and they work at it to make it awesome. Then the rest of the world realizes that this new idea is profitable, and then begins to alter it and market it to everyone else. That is, to non-nerds. MMOs are lame because they're not being designed for smart people. They're being designed for people who are "too cool" for video games, who don't want to make them a serious hobby, and who just plain aren't as smart. That's why MMOs are getting lamer every year.
Important facts: 1. Free to Play games are poorly made. 2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals. 3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE. 4. Community is more important than you think.
MMOs have suffered the same fate as other video games, and other similar passtimes. Nerds come up with something cool, and they work at it to make it awesome. Then the rest of the world realizes that this new idea is profitable, and then begins to alter it and market it to everyone else. That is, to non-nerds. MMOs are lame because they're not being designed for smart people. They're being designed for people who are "too cool" for video games, who don't want to make them a serious hobby, and who just plain aren't as smart. That's why MMOs are getting lamer every year.
I always find such statements interesting. EQ had two(well lots more) of the most brain dead mechanics in MMO history. The AFKable tank and the CH chain. Neither required any serious intelligence but were cornerstones of the game. Encounter and class design has come quite far since those days (even in EQ).
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
Most oldschool 3d games are lame too. Most suffer from server based lag if more then 10 players are in view.
Technology evolved and those issues were mostly created by old engines .
Most newer games run better and also pay more attention to performances because gaming is no longer a niche market . Everybody wants to play but many don't have anything near a "gaming" PC . (this said i used to play games with crappy pc's )
Why did you quote me as if I didnt know? I wasnt asking a question
My apologies . Your post seemed to be a simple general statement and i decided to give the reasons behind it , well as far as i know.
My comment was directed at the OP to show that old school MMO's werent all that ppl remember they were. Lot of players get blinded by nostalgic feelings and only remember the positive parts.
That's true as well , nostalgia is a big factor . Hence i love some RTS series who meanwhile became outdated on quite some levels just because i grew up with them so to speak.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
The reason why so many MMO's have become stale, in my opinion, is because they are no longer about creativity and pushing the boundaries of what you can do with the internet. Since "the suits" realised that you could turn a profit on them they are more about pushing the boundaries of profit than the genre.
This has led to games being made easier without harsh penalties for making mistakes so that they are open to more subscribers and thus generate greater returns on investments.
Easier gameplay has required the implementation of unnecessary, time-wasting grinds and gates to give the illusion of content, difficulty and achievement, which seems to dupe many people (I'm not against any grind in MMO's but when there is no challenge in it then there is no value to it for me).
Also, the fact that a lot of us older players have been doing the same old, same old for quite some time leaves us with websites like this being full of "if only" threads.
There are exceptions to the rules of course. For instance, EvE is a really great game that bucks the trend of the current lameness in the genre and Fallen Earth impressed me as well when I gave the trial a shot.
I live in hope that the future brings more complex games. For now, though, I've voted with my wallet.
MMOs have suffered the same fate as other video games, and other similar passtimes. Nerds come up with something cool, and they work at it to make it awesome. Then the rest of the world realizes that this new idea is profitable, and then begins to alter it and market it to everyone else. That is, to non-nerds. MMOs are lame because they're not being designed for smart people. They're being designed for people who are "too cool" for video games, who don't want to make them a serious hobby, and who just plain aren't as smart. That's why MMOs are getting lamer every year.
Sounds quite arrogant actually. Tbh i wouldn't blame the brains , but mostly the "caring" . Let's be honest , how often don't you read the misplaced :"its just a game" phrase used? A lot of people use this as an excuse for everything to suck nowadays. I used to think it was a phrase to show the rest of the world in game violence =/= RL violence (unlike the media likes to tell people) or that when something wouldn't happen like you wanted you shouldn't nerdrage. But now its used everytime someone who dislikes something and comes forward with his concerns .
Simply because most people don't care, a game used to be a hobby , just like sports or reading for some . Now it has become something far below , not a hobby just a pure time-sink you do when you don't have anything better to do (for a lot) . It actually has taken over the role TV used to have . And hell you can still see what consequences that role has had for the TV industry . unninovative movies or TV shows or sometimes even mindboggling stupid and useless. Hell , how many CSI's are there ?! wouldn't one be enough , why let people watch the same crap over and over just with different actors, sounds really similar to the gaming industry which sells people 10 times the same but under an other name and in a different "setting" .
But maybe i care too much and should get a life >>
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
There are alot of good mmos, but you have to stray away from the theme park mmos you listed. Fallen earth is a good mmo, and its rated good here at mmorpg. Also since I love aion even though its a theme park I have to stick up for my favorite game so far. There are alot of people that play aion and love it, you just have to find your way through all the griping of players. You could give darfall or all points bulletin a spin, or age of conan, vanguard or eve.
I think theres alot of upcoming mmos that is going to do better then what we have had latly.
I started with UO, and loved it. It's big problem was rampant PKing, as far as game design. But another problem that most of us old time UO players don't see is that in today's market it would be very boring. Not becuase of new gamers, but because it would best be described as "bland". (My opinion, of course.)
I still think the basic idea is solid. I think that old UO would need a social structure that included a means to stop the rampant PKing, or even romove it all together maybe. But that idea of a worldly game for today's market would also have to be enhanced greatly. "Worldly" and "Sandbox", as you all know, is what it was. But again, today it would need built onto that foundation to give it more excitement.
But to add excitement via a constant string of more powerful items isn't the way to go. That leads you in a circle right back to the "lameness" of today's games. The level grind (including items) to me is the biggest downfall that leads to this lameness.
What other ways can an MMO give excitement? It would mean a different way of playing, no more level upon level upon level as the foundation to the game's fun. But that leaves a lot of thus far poorly implemented stuff.
What if a game can become exciting not because of how your character advances, but because of what your character experiences? But what kinds of "dings" can do that? I think it would take a wide variety of things to make up for all the leveling dings. But I think it can be done. For the bigger and more exciting stuff, all kinds of discoveries. Treasures, new skills and magical abilities (not more powerful, but cool and different), secrets, information of importance, etc. But to give it that routinely effective ding numbers that come with level grinds, what? What kinds of things can be both exciting and fun, and coupled with quantity for all players? Could it be in the social arena, such as working to build a city compkete with roads and guardens and statuary and etc.? I don't know for sure. I think that answer would be "a little bit of everything...expanded to be a whole bunch of everything."
I started with UO, and loved it. It's big problem was rampant PKing, as far as game design. But another problem that most of us old time UO players don't see is that in today's market it would be very boring. Not becuase of new gamers, but because it would best be described as "bland". (My opinion, of course.)
UO was very bland. The thing that kept it entertaining was the social interaction. PKs, theives, player events, massive GM events. The game was built with the intention of being bland on its own and the players filling in the rest. EQ initially was much the same, social interaction was one of the few things that kept people sane playing that grindfest.
That is one of the primary differences between the old games and the new. Old games needed the community to keep the population entertained. New games have a much broader appeal at the expense of the community. Which isn't a bad think I suppose, it just makes finding like minded people harder.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
Well my thoughts are as follows. MMO's have become so lame as they are changing to make the lowest comon denominator. They want the kids. A lot of the hard time adults are no longer playing so the demographics have changed. So thus MMO's have become lame and easy. They want the kids to play and the parrents to pay.
MMOs have become stale. Ever since Blizzards great sucess with WoW and their captivating of millions of players its like all developers think they can copy/paste the "WoW formula" to a "new MMO" and get the same results. Truth be told most MMO gamers who have been around the block are tired of the same ol same ol that countless MMOs now offer. Sad thing is that games that try to be innovative and add a new flavour to the genre are generally disregarded and wind up with low population and eventually shut down.
I'm beginning to think that it's in large part due to the "fans". When devs attempt to listen to fans, all they end up hearing is from the obnoxious haters and the rabid fanbois. When making game choices based on these two groups, nothing good is going to come of that.
So long as corporations refuse to stray from the path of " MMORPGs for the masses", we will not be presented with anything of substance.
Independent developers are in a catch 22: either struggle to put out a decent product on limited resources, or compromise their artistic freedom to comply with a money backer's "make money fast" mentality.
Devs listen too much whiny kids and too pussies basically. Something very essential is gone, but then again people have showed their own stupidity how they are willing to grind for years. They think MMOs way too complicated, they're more like built by engineers nowadays. Just like Planetside we're never going to see anything like that. Hope is so lost. Btw, you want to check latest game by wargaming.net called World of Tanks. I promise to cut my penis if they do some carebear shitte.
Like PVE grind is probably easiest and cheapest form of content, and people are willing to pay for it. So why not.
Hater of hater of World of Tank. Latest wargame from wargaming.net.
Mainstream popularity is largely to blame in my opinion. With so many different players now, it's hard for me to find stuff in common with any of them.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Everything on your list except Aion are ones that I play. ... and yeah, lame pretty much sums things up.
Perhaps a change of style would help? Maybe look into games like Ryzom or Fallen Earth for something different.
If not, roll a new toon, head out into the woods, and kill 400,000 boars. It is mind numbing entertainment :-)
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
So long as corporations refuse to stray from the path of " MMORPGs for the masses", we will not be presented with anything of substance.
Independent developers are in a catch 22: either struggle to put out a decent product on limited resources, or compromise their artistic freedom to comply with a money backer's "make money fast" mentality.
I fear we are screwed for years to come.
There's a lot of truths in this post.
Another is that players constantly claim they are gameplay over graphics, and then have fits when a release doesn't have next-gen graphics.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
You commented on some of WoW programers played EQ1 early on.. Which surprises me.. EQ1 plays NOTHING like WoW, in my opinion, WoW is more like the a super casual easy mode of EQ1.. The grouping is not similar, the raiding is NOT even close to resembling EQ1, the classes on WoW are all homogenized anymore..
/shrug..
The only thing I can compare wow and eq1 together is to say that WoW is the E-sport dumbed down version of EQ1 (or other similar fantasy genre).. But if I wanted to play a game of my epeen is bigger then your epeen.. I'd go play Aion, Eve or similar.. WoW is a horrible PvP game..
I wouldn't be surprised.
Also, I believe he is right and there are/were several EQ players who are/were on the wow development team.
Remember, part of original WoW was to take things in other games that weren't fun and streamline them. So just because someone used to play a particular game doesn't mean they are compelled to do anything more than what the head developer says. Or ceo or whoever is calling the shots.
I listen to 12 tone and aleatoric music. Doesn't mean I want to write it!
So I wouldn't be so surprised.
Heck, the guy who created the original old forst in LOTRO was more of an old school gamer. He was then told that "getting lost isn't fun" so he had to change his gaming paradigm and design more toward what LOTRO was trying to do.
Sometimes it's about the job.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I'm beginning to think that it's in large part due to the "fans". When devs attempt to listen to fans, all they end up hearing is from the obnoxious haters and the rabid fanbois. When making game choices based on these two groups, nothing good is going to come of that.
The problem is the wrong assumption that all players want the same. The main increased in players comes from casual players that barely participate in forums but still get recommendation from them. So the main voice of players is not really representative of the majority. Even more, the expectations created by the gaming circles are higher so new games barely can come up with them. In most situations the expectations are a combination of innovation but keeping the classics and at least 3-4 years old game level of content, with awesome graphics that should run in a 6+ years old computer without any lag.
Because one-developers don't know their target market. Two-there are too many copycat games. Three MMO's now have become either 'shooters' or games with too many instances.
You commented on some of WoW programers played EQ1 early on.. Which surprises me.. EQ1 plays NOTHING like WoW, in my opinion, WoW is more like the a super casual easy mode of EQ1.. The grouping is not similar, the raiding is NOT even close to resembling EQ1, the classes on WoW are all homogenized anymore..
/shrug..
The only thing I can compare wow and eq1 together is to say that WoW is the E-sport dumbed down version of EQ1 (or other similar fantasy genre).. But if I wanted to play a game of my epeen is bigger then your epeen.. I'd go play Aion, Eve or similar.. WoW is a horrible PvP game..
I wouldn't be surprised.
Also, I believe he is right and there are/were several EQ players who are/were on the wow development team.
Remember, part of original WoW was to take things in other games that weren't fun and streamline them. So just because someone used to play a particular game doesn't mean they are compelled to do anything more than what the head developer says. Or ceo or whoever is calling the shots.
I listen to 12 tone and aleatoric music. Doesn't mean I want to write it!
So I wouldn't be so surprised.
Heck, the guy who created the original old forst in LOTRO was more of an old school gamer. He was then told that "getting lost isn't fun" so he had to change his gaming paradigm and design more toward what LOTRO was trying to do.
Sometimes it's about the job.
I read in an article here (sorry, no linky, it was a couple years back in an article by a female writer about a convention) that MMO developers are actually a fairly small community, and they routinely move around different companies.
I'd love to see a migration map of the developers - who joined what company when - and reference that to the type of changes that made it into the game after that. I bet we could identify who has brought in the new, fun stuff and who brought in the grungy old grind.
Mainstream popularity is largely to blame in my opinion. With so many different players now, it's hard for me to find stuff in common with any of them.
Yea a lot of stuff seams to be the flavor of the month club.
Despite what some idiots think; it's not because of WoW.
In fact in basic sociology terms; the phenomena isn't new any more.
Sorry.
I mean even if you were born in 2000 and just now at the age of 10 thanks to Granny got a 10 dollar Wizard 101 gift card, the newness will hook you and then be gone within 90 days. Thus starting our current cycle of 3rd generation roulette.
No one company caused it, and quite frankly most of the mechanics people complain about now came about because the same sort of person complained that they weren't there in the first place.
Until technology properly moves forward to give us something truly new, or some crazy dev gets the funding to try something different, or we all just accept that how MMOs are is simply how MMOs are. This topic will continue to be posted daily.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
I gotta be honest, I think TERA will be the first game that really changes the mold. If not that, then Guild Wars 2 will be fantastic for its no subscription fees and always solid PvP. Plus, Guild Wars 2 is making changes to the genre that haven't been done by any other game like with the dynamic questing and such.
TERA is the first option though, looks amazing with the whole political thing and action gameplay and I think it has the potential to be the best MMO ever if it can come through on even half of its promises.
Why oh why does it have to be like this, WoW is heaven for Internet Trollers and jerks yet it's hell for me, Aion is turned down by people because of it's "Eastern Style" that's the same area where the free to plays come from, Warhammer is a game on life support, Everquest 2 can't run the graphics correctly even if you do have a high powered graphics card and Codemasters got rid of my Lord of the Rings online account, I don't want to buy the game again. =p
Also played DDO and it sucks everything isn't more open worlded and Runes of Magic is a cheap knock off game.
Shame there's no other good games, there's far too many cheap free mmo's that look and play bad, and they want more money then pay to plays. =p
Sometimes just a rest from mmo's for a few weeks will do the trick, its like anything in life , Familiararity breeds contempt.
I recently felt pretty burnt out on Mmo's , so I did some other stuff played some Board games and stuff and then came back (to WAR actually ) .... but hey I guess everyones different, and as another poster stated its not really really the games causing the problems, just your feelings about the them at any one particular point in time.
Comments
They weren't great. They had amazingingly serious problems (the whining was just as endless as today) but they were new and filled with a different community because it was a new market which greatly made up for the serious flaws.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
MMOs have suffered the same fate as other video games, and other similar passtimes. Nerds come up with something cool, and they work at it to make it awesome. Then the rest of the world realizes that this new idea is profitable, and then begins to alter it and market it to everyone else. That is, to non-nerds. MMOs are lame because they're not being designed for smart people. They're being designed for people who are "too cool" for video games, who don't want to make them a serious hobby, and who just plain aren't as smart. That's why MMOs are getting lamer every year.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
I always find such statements interesting. EQ had two(well lots more) of the most brain dead mechanics in MMO history. The AFKable tank and the CH chain. Neither required any serious intelligence but were cornerstones of the game. Encounter and class design has come quite far since those days (even in EQ).
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
That's true as well , nostalgia is a big factor . Hence i love some RTS series who meanwhile became outdated on quite some levels just because i grew up with them so to speak.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
The reason why so many MMO's have become stale, in my opinion, is because they are no longer about creativity and pushing the boundaries of what you can do with the internet. Since "the suits" realised that you could turn a profit on them they are more about pushing the boundaries of profit than the genre.
This has led to games being made easier without harsh penalties for making mistakes so that they are open to more subscribers and thus generate greater returns on investments.
Easier gameplay has required the implementation of unnecessary, time-wasting grinds and gates to give the illusion of content, difficulty and achievement, which seems to dupe many people (I'm not against any grind in MMO's but when there is no challenge in it then there is no value to it for me).
Also, the fact that a lot of us older players have been doing the same old, same old for quite some time leaves us with websites like this being full of "if only" threads.
There are exceptions to the rules of course. For instance, EvE is a really great game that bucks the trend of the current lameness in the genre and Fallen Earth impressed me as well when I gave the trial a shot.
I live in hope that the future brings more complex games. For now, though, I've voted with my wallet.
Sounds quite arrogant actually. Tbh i wouldn't blame the brains , but mostly the "caring" . Let's be honest , how often don't you read the misplaced :"its just a game" phrase used? A lot of people use this as an excuse for everything to suck nowadays. I used to think it was a phrase to show the rest of the world in game violence =/= RL violence (unlike the media likes to tell people) or that when something wouldn't happen like you wanted you shouldn't nerdrage. But now its used everytime someone who dislikes something and comes forward with his concerns .
Simply because most people don't care, a game used to be a hobby , just like sports or reading for some . Now it has become something far below , not a hobby just a pure time-sink you do when you don't have anything better to do (for a lot) . It actually has taken over the role TV used to have . And hell you can still see what consequences that role has had for the TV industry . unninovative movies or TV shows or sometimes even mindboggling stupid and useless. Hell , how many CSI's are there ?! wouldn't one be enough , why let people watch the same crap over and over just with different actors, sounds really similar to the gaming industry which sells people 10 times the same but under an other name and in a different "setting" .
But maybe i care too much and should get a life >>
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
There are alot of good mmos, but you have to stray away from the theme park mmos you listed. Fallen earth is a good mmo, and its rated good here at mmorpg. Also since I love aion even though its a theme park I have to stick up for my favorite game so far. There are alot of people that play aion and love it, you just have to find your way through all the griping of players. You could give darfall or all points bulletin a spin, or age of conan, vanguard or eve.
I think theres alot of upcoming mmos that is going to do better then what we have had latly.
You guys are just making too much sense.
I started with UO, and loved it. It's big problem was rampant PKing, as far as game design. But another problem that most of us old time UO players don't see is that in today's market it would be very boring. Not becuase of new gamers, but because it would best be described as "bland". (My opinion, of course.)
I still think the basic idea is solid. I think that old UO would need a social structure that included a means to stop the rampant PKing, or even romove it all together maybe. But that idea of a worldly game for today's market would also have to be enhanced greatly. "Worldly" and "Sandbox", as you all know, is what it was. But again, today it would need built onto that foundation to give it more excitement.
But to add excitement via a constant string of more powerful items isn't the way to go. That leads you in a circle right back to the "lameness" of today's games. The level grind (including items) to me is the biggest downfall that leads to this lameness.
What other ways can an MMO give excitement? It would mean a different way of playing, no more level upon level upon level as the foundation to the game's fun. But that leaves a lot of thus far poorly implemented stuff.
What if a game can become exciting not because of how your character advances, but because of what your character experiences? But what kinds of "dings" can do that? I think it would take a wide variety of things to make up for all the leveling dings. But I think it can be done. For the bigger and more exciting stuff, all kinds of discoveries. Treasures, new skills and magical abilities (not more powerful, but cool and different), secrets, information of importance, etc. But to give it that routinely effective ding numbers that come with level grinds, what? What kinds of things can be both exciting and fun, and coupled with quantity for all players? Could it be in the social arena, such as working to build a city compkete with roads and guardens and statuary and etc.? I don't know for sure. I think that answer would be "a little bit of everything...expanded to be a whole bunch of everything."
Once upon a time....
UO was very bland. The thing that kept it entertaining was the social interaction. PKs, theives, player events, massive GM events. The game was built with the intention of being bland on its own and the players filling in the rest. EQ initially was much the same, social interaction was one of the few things that kept people sane playing that grindfest.
That is one of the primary differences between the old games and the new. Old games needed the community to keep the population entertained. New games have a much broader appeal at the expense of the community. Which isn't a bad think I suppose, it just makes finding like minded people harder.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
Well my thoughts are as follows. MMO's have become so lame as they are changing to make the lowest comon denominator. They want the kids. A lot of the hard time adults are no longer playing so the demographics have changed. So thus MMO's have become lame and easy. They want the kids to play and the parrents to pay.
MMOs have become stale. Ever since Blizzards great sucess with WoW and their captivating of millions of players its like all developers think they can copy/paste the "WoW formula" to a "new MMO" and get the same results. Truth be told most MMO gamers who have been around the block are tired of the same ol same ol that countless MMOs now offer. Sad thing is that games that try to be innovative and add a new flavour to the genre are generally disregarded and wind up with low population and eventually shut down.
I'm beginning to think that it's in large part due to the "fans". When devs attempt to listen to fans, all they end up hearing is from the obnoxious haters and the rabid fanbois. When making game choices based on these two groups, nothing good is going to come of that.
So long as corporations refuse to stray from the path of " MMORPGs for the masses", we will not be presented with anything of substance.
Independent developers are in a catch 22: either struggle to put out a decent product on limited resources, or compromise their artistic freedom to comply with a money backer's "make money fast" mentality.
I fear we are screwed for years to come.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Devs listen too much whiny kids and too pussies basically. Something very essential is gone, but then again people have showed their own stupidity how they are willing to grind for years. They think MMOs way too complicated, they're more like built by engineers nowadays. Just like Planetside we're never going to see anything like that. Hope is so lost. Btw, you want to check latest game by wargaming.net called World of Tanks. I promise to cut my penis if they do some carebear shitte.
Like PVE grind is probably easiest and cheapest form of content, and people are willing to pay for it. So why not.
Hater of hater of World of Tank. Latest wargame from wargaming.net.
Mainstream popularity is largely to blame in my opinion. With so many different players now, it's hard for me to find stuff in common with any of them.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
@ OP:
Everything on your list except Aion are ones that I play. ... and yeah, lame pretty much sums things up.
Perhaps a change of style would help? Maybe look into games like Ryzom or Fallen Earth for something different.
If not, roll a new toon, head out into the woods, and kill 400,000 boars. It is mind numbing entertainment :-)
There's a lot of truths in this post.
Another is that players constantly claim they are gameplay over graphics, and then have fits when a release doesn't have next-gen graphics.
I wouldn't be surprised.
Also, I believe he is right and there are/were several EQ players who are/were on the wow development team.
Remember, part of original WoW was to take things in other games that weren't fun and streamline them. So just because someone used to play a particular game doesn't mean they are compelled to do anything more than what the head developer says. Or ceo or whoever is calling the shots.
I listen to 12 tone and aleatoric music. Doesn't mean I want to write it!
So I wouldn't be so surprised.
Heck, the guy who created the original old forst in LOTRO was more of an old school gamer. He was then told that "getting lost isn't fun" so he had to change his gaming paradigm and design more toward what LOTRO was trying to do.
Sometimes it's about the job.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The problem is the wrong assumption that all players want the same. The main increased in players comes from casual players that barely participate in forums but still get recommendation from them. So the main voice of players is not really representative of the majority. Even more, the expectations created by the gaming circles are higher so new games barely can come up with them. In most situations the expectations are a combination of innovation but keeping the classics and at least 3-4 years old game level of content, with awesome graphics that should run in a 6+ years old computer without any lag.
Because one-developers don't know their target market. Two-there are too many copycat games. Three MMO's now have become either 'shooters' or games with too many instances.
I read in an article here (sorry, no linky, it was a couple years back in an article by a female writer about a convention) that MMO developers are actually a fairly small community, and they routinely move around different companies.
I'd love to see a migration map of the developers - who joined what company when - and reference that to the type of changes that made it into the game after that. I bet we could identify who has brought in the new, fun stuff and who brought in the grungy old grind.
Yea a lot of stuff seams to be the flavor of the month club.
Example wow adds stated armor sets. Lotro addes radiance armor sets
Guild wars adds hirelings. Lotro adds skimirsh soldier.
Allods adds 25 dollar backpack, wow adds my little poney, eq2 adds 20 dollar backpack and mounts
DDO goes f2p, followed up by its sister going the same route.
I could copy pages of this stuff. It is sicking to see how all the games are copying each other trying to appeal to each others player base.
Despite what some idiots think; it's not because of WoW.
In fact in basic sociology terms; the phenomena isn't new any more.
Sorry.
I mean even if you were born in 2000 and just now at the age of 10 thanks to Granny got a 10 dollar Wizard 101 gift card, the newness will hook you and then be gone within 90 days. Thus starting our current cycle of 3rd generation roulette.
No one company caused it, and quite frankly most of the mechanics people complain about now came about because the same sort of person complained that they weren't there in the first place.
Until technology properly moves forward to give us something truly new, or some crazy dev gets the funding to try something different, or we all just accept that how MMOs are is simply how MMOs are. This topic will continue to be posted daily.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
I gotta be honest, I think TERA will be the first game that really changes the mold. If not that, then Guild Wars 2 will be fantastic for its no subscription fees and always solid PvP. Plus, Guild Wars 2 is making changes to the genre that haven't been done by any other game like with the dynamic questing and such.
TERA is the first option though, looks amazing with the whole political thing and action gameplay and I think it has the potential to be the best MMO ever if it can come through on even half of its promises.
Sometimes just a rest from mmo's for a few weeks will do the trick, its like anything in life , Familiararity breeds contempt.
I recently felt pretty burnt out on Mmo's , so I did some other stuff played some Board games and stuff and then came back (to WAR actually ) .... but hey I guess everyones different, and as another poster stated its not really really the games causing the problems, just your feelings about the them at any one particular point in time.