I have to venture that the whole "Scaling difficulty to fit the party" thing in games is a bit of a cheap trick as well. I mean, understand WHY Dev's are tempted to do it...but it actualy defeats the purpose a bit.
Scaling difficulty to meet an individual (or groups) ability is great.. FOR PRACTICE, EXCERSIZE and LEARNING. It stinks for actual enjoyment in play. I used to do that when PRACTICING sports with some-one that was at a lower skill level then I.... "It's called playing to a persons level." It's great for allowing a person to LEARN, UNDERSTAND and IMPROVE thier skills. Since it breaks down the process of doing something complex into simpler parts and at a speed that the person can process. You can't teach an 8 year old to improve his swing very well if Roger Clemens is throwing his hardest fastballs at him.
Yet when it comes to game time...all that SHOULD go out the window....and "playing to a persons level" is about the worst and most demeaning thing you can do to some-one....as it robs them of any real possibility of a sense of accomplishment. Imagine playing a baseball game where the speed of the pitch automaticaly adjusts to the ability of the batter. How good would you feel about hitting a triple in such a game....as opposed to one where the pitcher was throwing his hardest?
In the game sense....it's basicaly a cheap trick to avoid having to deal with the complexities of providing a challenge for groups/players of differing powers. It works perfectly fine... AS LONG AS THE PLAYER IS UNAWARE IT'S HAPPENING. The second that the player actually realizes whats going on....it'll pretty much tank alot of thier enjoyment of accomplishment.
It's kinda like hitting a home run off your arch rival....and then finding out that your rival was purposefully throwing at half-speed for you.
One thing I would like to see with the auto teleport is for them to go the WoW route and make it cross server. It would make grouping alot less taxing but I think the problem will be because of the radiance system you would have people dropping group because of inadequate rad.
Another thing from this article I just noticed is that there will be two new group factions... which means more rep grinding argghhh, I am so sick of grinding rep for so many factions along with grinding for LI (One of the reasons I have so few alts post Moria) experience and relics,gems ect.
I have a life time sub and a monthly sub with a 65 minstrel and a 65 warden. I will take a look again but i think i would rather play Vanguard than lotro, it's ten time better IMO.
The rp in lotro is one the best but i can't see Laurelin staying as mature and RP friendly once the FTP crew joins, i just hope they have a strict policy on the RP servers.
What about players who've purchased the game in the past and are not currently subscribed? These people still shelled out for the box price, which I understand has essentially been made free now, so will they get any perks that the free to play people won't get?
You didn't see the guys at Mythic giving out anything to those who had bought + subbed warhammer online...
Ah the Warhammer trial is only to lv 10 and keeps you in 1 zone, Thats a fraction of what the Turbine Lotro is offering , now if Mythic let you get to lv 40 and stop your renown at 40 (rather then the current rr80) then you might have a argument.
What about players who've purchased the game in the past and are not currently subscribed? These people still shelled out for the box price, which I understand has essentially been made free now, so will they get any perks that the free to play people won't get?
Logic says the answer is yes but I doubt that you will get anything.
Anyone who has subscribed in the past will automatically be given premium member status, plus any expansions that they have purchased in the past will remain bound to their account.
It's all in Turbine's FAQ's.
That is half incorrect. You will have to resub to get premium status, its not an automatic thing. The onl automatic thing is the VIP status. I know this as a fact. I had a sub in ddo for a while. I let my account lapse. I logged in and was set to f2p. Tons of instances were locked out that i used to run on a daily basis. The same will hapen here.
What you described in DDO erictlewis was a bug that was fixed. I too had a paid sub, let it expire and then came back and my account has always said Premium. Now as far as instances being locked out, that is true, but NO you do not need to resub and then let it lapse to be a Premium player. Turbine has already said: Anyone that has ever spent money on LotRO will be considered a Premium account when the F2p option starts.
As far as being locked out of quests - Yes, if it's past the lvl 20 and below Moria you'll be locked out, that means the LoneLands, North Downs, Trollshaws etc..... until you buy them. Why? Because when you 'bought' the original SoA box, you weren't buying the content, only renting it as long as you had a sub. As far as buying MoM & SoM, those were self contained expansions so when you bought those, you bought the quests in them and will still own them to play in.
Premium perks - you get more toon slots than a F2p type, higher gold limit and some others. Better than a Free player and not as good as a paid sub.
F2P option is a piece of crap. It's like a trial why not just lower the subscription costs to like 8.99$ or 10.
F2P option is technically a trial, premium is a waste of time so just subscribe because its so much eaier and no hassle with those online stores.
I am not sure why the industry is in the 15 dollars or nothing mode either. To be far though, LOTRO had a 9.99 option or like 9.97 options for buying three months at a time and some other games too but largely this mentality that we should do anything to save a game but lower the monthly price seems odd to me.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Just my opinion, but it seems a lot of subscribers to the game are over-reacting to the shift.
Remember, you can continue to subscribe and continue to play the same way you have always played. Yes, it's likely that content updates will no longer be free, but rather require purchase. However, as a subscriber, you will be getting 500 Turbine Points free per month. Almost certainly enough to allow you to purchase content as it becomes available.
Most subscribers are probably going to want to continue subscribing. There may be some people who will find that given their progression in the game, it may make sense for them to drop down to F2P, at least for a while. For example, if you have already purchased MoM and have just started the content there. etc...
I think part of the problem is that some subscribers are feeling it's unfair that they might have to continue paying a sub to play, while other people will be playing for free. The fact of the matter is that most F2P players who advance beyond the starting areas will be paying, one way or the other; either by being enticed into converting to a subscription, or by purchasing content as they go. The alternative routes to higher advancement in the game do not in any way diminish what subscribers have paid for or continue to pay for.
The main benefit for the game from switching to this hybrid model is that it does open the game up to people who might like the game, but would not have tried it otherwise. It's also great for more casual players, who may consider LotRO as a second, or even third MMO. While they may not be able to justify $15/month for a game thay play a few times a month, the game suddenly becomes very accessible under the new model.
I think my only concern with the actual form of the new model is the fact that people will be able to buy virtues outright. Accelerators is one thing, but total unlocks will rub many people the wrong way. However, people who have earned them the old fashion way will still have the sense of achievment and the knowledge that they didn't have to pay cash for it. As they progress in the game, they will have the option of continuing to earn them through hard work, accelerating the kill related ones, or buying some future virtues outright.
Of course, in the end, the biggest benefit for long term subscribers is the fact that the game now at least has a chance to stay financially afloat and hopefully eventually deliver on the entire epic storyline. Rather than fretting over whether or not someone else might find a way to enjoy the game with less time and money investment, just continue to enjoy the game! Your experience of the game is what counts, so stop worrying about wther or not the grass is greener in someone elses lawn!
If the change keeps the game alive and allows for a more robust release schedule of new content and future expansions, it should be seen as a win by everyone and much better than the alternative!
Virtues, trait and xp potions and from what I read in the interview with Massively , Cash Shop items will be available to alliviate some of the time involved with crafting I can only imagine but its a pretty good bet that crafting materials will be what that means as aquiring ore, hides or whatever is the most time consuming part of crafting. But then, at least at low levels it may be needed to advance as the competition for ore nodes will be crazy.
As for nothing changing for sub payers, yes, I got that email form Turbine. Just keep paying your sub and we will take care of the rest is what it said, cant quote it exactly without looking, but talk about a red flag. Nothing ive seen since has made the red flag go down either. For the sake of my Kin I hope it works out for those who stay and for the rest of you folks as well.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
I have to venture that the whole "Scaling difficulty to fit the party" thing in games is a bit of a cheap trick as well. I mean, understand WHY Dev's are tempted to do it...but it actualy defeats the purpose a bit.
Scaling difficulty to meet an individual (or groups) ability is great.. FOR PRACTICE, EXCERSIZE and LEARNING. It stinks for actual enjoyment in play. I used to do that when PRACTICING sports with some-one that was at a lower skill level then I.... "It's called playing to a persons level." It's great for allowing a person to LEARN, UNDERSTAND and IMPROVE thier skills. Since it breaks down the process of doing something complex into simpler parts and at a speed that the person can process. You can't teach an 8 year old to improve his swing very well if Roger Clemens is throwing his hardest fastballs at him.
Yet when it comes to game time...all that SHOULD go out the window....and "playing to a persons level" is about the worst and most demeaning thing you can do to some-one....as it robs them of any real possibility of a sense of accomplishment. Imagine playing a baseball game where the speed of the pitch automaticaly adjusts to the ability of the batter. How good would you feel about hitting a triple in such a game....as opposed to one where the pitcher was throwing his hardest?
In the game sense....it's basicaly a cheap trick to avoid having to deal with the complexities of providing a challenge for groups/players of differing powers. It works perfectly fine... AS LONG AS THE PLAYER IS UNAWARE IT'S HAPPENING. The second that the player actually realizes whats going on....it'll pretty much tank alot of thier enjoyment of accomplishment.
It's kinda like hitting a home run off your arch rival....and then finding out that your rival was purposefully throwing at half-speed for you.
HUH??
WHAT???
Umm yeah I'm thinking your way off base here. No I'm not going to explain at all since it would take far longer to do so than is worth. What I will do is recommend you take a little time on a trial and play some City of Heros to see how scaling difficulty to fit the party actually benefits a game. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you sound like one of those 'hard core elitist' types who believe having the special accomplishement actually makes you more important than anyone else in a game.
Me, I'ld much rather have a game environment where I can get a team together, no matter the members levels, that can work together on an objective, no matter how many thier are logged in at that time. You can keep the 'must have 12 people of xx level logged in at exactly 9pm to do our raid or we cant do it tonight'.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Just my opinion, but it seems a lot of subscribers to the game are over-reacting to the shift.
Remember, you can continue to subscribe and continue to play the same way you have always played. Yes, it's likely that content updates will no longer be free, but rather require purchase. However, as a subscriber, you will be getting 500 Turbine Points free per month. Almost certainly enough to allow you to purchase content as it becomes available.
Most subscribers are probably going to want to continue subscribing. There may be some people who will find that given their progression in the game, it may make sense for them to drop down to F2P, at least for a while. For example, if you have already purchased MoM and have just started the content there. etc...
I think part of the problem is that some subscribers are feeling it's unfair that they might have to continue paying a sub to play, while other people will be playing for free. The fact of the matter is that most F2P players who advance beyond the starting areas will be paying, one way or the other; either by being enticed into converting to a subscription, or by purchasing content as they go. The alternative routes to higher advancement in the game do not in any way diminish what subscribers have paid for or continue to pay for.
The main benefit for the game from switching to this hybrid model is that it does open the game up to people who might like the game, but would not have tried it otherwise. It's also great for more casual players, who may consider LotRO as a second, or even third MMO. While they may not be able to justify $15/month for a game thay play a few times a month, the game suddenly becomes very accessible under the new model.
I think my only concern with the actual form of the new model is the fact that people will be able to buy virtues outright. Accelerators is one thing, but total unlocks will rub many people the wrong way. However, people who have earned them the old fashion way will still have the sense of achievment and the knowledge that they didn't have to pay cash for it. As they progress in the game, they will have the option of continuing to earn them through hard work, accelerating the kill related ones, or buying some future virtues outright.
Of course, in the end, the biggest benefit for long term subscribers is the fact that the game now at least has a chance to stay financially afloat and hopefully eventually deliver on the entire epic storyline. Rather than fretting over whether or not someone else might find a way to enjoy the game with less time and money investment, just continue to enjoy the game! Your experience of the game is what counts, so stop worrying about wther or not the grass is greener in someone elses lawn!
If the change keeps the game alive and allows for a more robust release schedule of new content and future expansions, it should be seen as a win by everyone and much better than the alternative!
It's really not any sort of envy about how much person X is playing compared to person Y. It's about the ways in which this move can negatively effect the game-play environment for those currently playing. Make no mistake, it definately CAN. Whether it WILL and to what degree remains to be determined. But here are some things thier model certainly could cause to happen:
1) Harder to police griefers, abusers, hackers. Essentialy with some monetary commitment required in order to pay, loss of access to ones account comes at a tangible penalty. Without that there is essentialy nothing to keep hackers/griefers/banners from creating an infinite number of accounts in order to carry out thier mischief. There is no cost to them when an account get's perma-banned since no money was involved in creating it. They can simply create a new one...and there is no way for Turbine to prevent them from doing so because they have no way of knowing that User459878 belongs to the same person who has already had 31 previous accounts perma-banned.
2) It can effective raise the cost of playing the game for current subscribers. With a cash shop and micro-transactions there is going to be a real temptation for Turbine to effectively raise the monthly subscription cost for regular subscribers by requiring purchases from the Cash Shop on top of thier monthly sub in order to achieve the same level of play that they had previously enjoyed with thier subscription price. For example, as subscribers we got access to Forchel for no additional money...it was included in our monthly subscription price. It is entirely possible for Turbine to require future Forchel type additions to require a purchase in the cash shop for VIP members in order to access. Doing so would effectively be forcing them to pay more for the same level of service they had under the subscription model.
3) It can adversely effect many players enjoyment of the environment. One of the reasons many people enjpy fantasy games is to simply escape from the stress and hassle of every day life. Part of that involves not having to worry about expenses. You pay the entry fee....you don't have to worry about how much you are spending to enjoy whatever features are offered within that environment. It's part of the reason why one fee, all inclusive vacations are popular....it alllows you to escape from worrying about money....as long as you know you can afford to pay the upfront entry fee, you don't need to worry about whether you can afford to get seconds at dinner or if you can afford to go down the water slide 5 times or 50 times. RMT destroys that for many people....and essentialy turns it into the same experience as going to a Casino where you constantly have to worry about how much you are spending in order to play another round. That's perfectly fine for people that enjoy the Casino experience....but a major disturbance for those that don't.
4) It can Development Focus. Under the subscription model the natural focus is simply on creating a fun enough play experience for the player to want to keep subscribed. With the F2P model there is a second (many would say first) development priority that tends to creep in.....finding ways to prod the player into make a purchase in the cash shop. That folks can be subtle or it can be blatantly over the top....but it is one of the things that management WILL push as a development priorty. That CAN have a VERY adverse effect of the game environment.
5) It further segments the community into those who can afford to purchase enhancements in the Cash Shop and those that Can't....which is something we haven't had to worry about in LOTRO before.
I have to venture that the whole "Scaling difficulty to fit the party" thing in games is a bit of a cheap trick as well. I mean, understand WHY Dev's are tempted to do it...but it actualy defeats the purpose a bit.
Scaling difficulty to meet an individual (or groups) ability is great.. FOR PRACTICE, EXCERSIZE and LEARNING. It stinks for actual enjoyment in play. I used to do that when PRACTICING sports with some-one that was at a lower skill level then I.... "It's called playing to a persons level." It's great for allowing a person to LEARN, UNDERSTAND and IMPROVE thier skills. Since it breaks down the process of doing something complex into simpler parts and at a speed that the person can process. You can't teach an 8 year old to improve his swing very well if Roger Clemens is throwing his hardest fastballs at him.
Yet when it comes to game time...all that SHOULD go out the window....and "playing to a persons level" is about the worst and most demeaning thing you can do to some-one....as it robs them of any real possibility of a sense of accomplishment. Imagine playing a baseball game where the speed of the pitch automaticaly adjusts to the ability of the batter. How good would you feel about hitting a triple in such a game....as opposed to one where the pitcher was throwing his hardest?
In the game sense....it's basicaly a cheap trick to avoid having to deal with the complexities of providing a challenge for groups/players of differing powers. It works perfectly fine... AS LONG AS THE PLAYER IS UNAWARE IT'S HAPPENING. The second that the player actually realizes whats going on....it'll pretty much tank alot of thier enjoyment of accomplishment.
It's kinda like hitting a home run off your arch rival....and then finding out that your rival was purposefully throwing at half-speed for you.
HUH??
WHAT???
Umm yeah I'm thinking your way off base here. No I'm not going to explain at all since it would take far longer to do so than is worth. What I will do is recommend you take a little time on a trial and play some City of Heros to see how scaling difficulty to fit the party actually benefits a game. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you sound like one of those 'hard core elitist' types who believe having the special accomplishement actually makes you more important than anyone else in a game.
Me, I'ld much rather have a game environment where I can get a team together, no matter the members levels, that can work together on an objective, no matter how many thier are logged in at that time. You can keep the 'must have 12 people of xx level logged in at exactly 9pm to do our raid or we cant do it tonight'.
No I get it...I just don't think you do. Trust me, I'm anything but a hard core raider....I'm mostly in games for role-playing....not competition but I do understand why different people enjoy different aspects of games.
Let me ask you.... Why do you work on an objective....what meaning or benefit does it have to you? How does it provide enjoyment or satisfaction to you? Do you ever stop to consider this? Because it goes to the core of what I am talking about.
Do you enjoy gaining levels or skill points? Not all types of players do...but for "achiever" type players that is a major portion of their fun. Do you stop to consider why that is?
Could it be because it allows them to gain access to and overcome more difficult content?
Yet with scaling that no longer exists anymore...as the difficulty of content adjusts to whatever level the player is at.
For example, in a traditional old-school RPG....one of the benefits of getting to level 20 (or whatever) was that you could then go out and attempt to defeat the dragon.
Under a scaling system...that essentialy disappears...since if you are a level 1 player, the system will scale the dragons abilities to be beatable by a level 1 player. If you are level 20 it will scale it to be beatable by a level 20 player.
What then, is the point to gaining a level?
Furthermore, why has competition or striving for achievement and excellence and the recognition thereof suddenly become a taboo in our society? Frankly this a a major problem in our country and our world today. No one need be made to feel guilty in taking pride that thier abilities or accomplisments exceed those of others in a particular field of endevour.
A ball-player that bat's .380 is NOT a more important PERSON then a ball-player who bats .120. However, they ARE a better ball-player and there should be no shame or guilt in them taking pride in that accomplishment nor should thier be any taboo for recognizing that accomplishment. The person batting .120 may be having a blast playing...and that's perfectly fine....games are supposed to be about fun.... However by no means should they be allowed to advance to second base after they struck out...just because the .380 batter got to second when he hit a double and everything has to be "equal".... simply put, that's no longer playing baseball.
If you own all the expansion you will keep all the content that came with them. That includes the classes zones higher tiers the whole thing. The only people who will have to buy any content is new players after the f2p model launches.
They better not add self port abilities or quick travel other than the stables and the map port back to the assigned city. I don't even like the latter. Stables are fine..with quick travel to avoid the wait but I never liked the map port. If teleporting existed in Tolkien's world to the extent it exists in the game then the "The Lord Of the Rings" trilogy would have consisted of three paragraphs...in summary..evil comes again...Frodo teleports to Mordor...throws the ring in the lava. The End. So much for the journey.
They better not add self port abilities or quick travel other than the stables and the map port back to the assigned city. I don't even like the latter. Stables are fine..with quick travel to avoid the wait but I never liked the map port. If teleporting existed in Tolkien's world to the extent it exists in the game then the "The Lord Of the Rings" trilogy would have consisted of three paragraphs...in summary..evil comes again...Frodo teleports to Mordor...throws the ring in the lava. The End. So much for the journey.
I read somewhere that a quick travel ability to the Misty Mountains would be available in the cash shop. The way it looked it would be like the abilities hunters have but just for Misty, for now anyway.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
What are virtues? A virtue is a combo of three stats that improve your character. You can equip a limited number of them, but each virtue can have 10 ranks.
So rank1 determination is obtained by killing wolves in a starter area. It gives +3 agility. 10 ranks in it give 30 agility (plus some 2 other stat bonusses). Slot it and you character will enjoy those extra stats. +30 is nothing to be sneezed at BUT it takes a while to obtain. Early ranks are "easy" enough, 90 or so wolves if I remember correct. But later ranks scale up and require several hundred kills often of enemies that aren't easy to find. Woe to the person who wants might and has to hunt down bog-lurkers in the lone-lands.
Buying these virtues instead removes an AWFUL lot of grinding but gives these players a real advantage over casual gamers. Current stats are limited at 650 for max level, so 30 points makes a significant difference.
Seeing the prices so far, the shop is also going to be expensive and I shudder to think what you can buy in the shop that relates to crafting. Just buy mithril flakes and stacks of ore?
BUT what I fear most of all is that Turbine has so far screwed EVERY change in the game and ALL the systems have had multiple adjustments.
Fear/Poison/Wound/Disease potions as a money sink... who bothers when the countdown is 60 seconds for all the pots together and you get hit with a new debuff in 5 seconds? Just get used to limping when dealing with wargs and save some cash.
Critical item for crafting, rare item drops for crafting. LOTS of adjustment to the point you never know what it is going to be now. Cooks have had multiple adjustments. Prices are still all over the place. Why do some proffesions need bought ingredients and others don't?
Fish bait, GONE.
Block/Evade/Parry change upsetting all classes that relied on it, essential change for the future it might be, but once again handled poorly.
Low level horse for NEW players, old players got nothing.
Legendary Items, the weapon that stays with you and grows with you, and you dump it the moment you get a better one...
Radiance gear, once again, bad introduction resulting in endless tweaking.
Fine, so Turbine tweaks the game a lot. But with a cash-shop, people will have paid hard cash for their items, you can't then just change them. I think that the cash shop will as badly thought out as countless other elements of the game.
The F2P move will attract some players who can enjoy SoA but will be reluctant to pay the high prices. SoA is currently and empty affair with only old hands grouping with people they already know. New comers face an uncaring world. This won't improve.
The old hands will lock themselves up past the gates of Moria and the game will continue to bleed to dead, with SWTOR probably cutting its throat wide open.
Great, I really am starting to look forward to this now .. Scaling instances! Amazing.
I dont think there is any cause for negativity, there is a huge amount of *really good* content in lotro, since its release its turned into quite an astonishing game. it plays silky smooth, and the envoiroments are breathtaking.
Oh god I sound like a salesman, now, i'll stop
But yea, if you've not played lotro for a year or so and plan to check it out for the free2p you'll wonder why you never tried it befre
Sfc, far as I remember, the horse is just a limited time deal from the bag.
To actually get a horse, you'll have to subscribe so you can actually do the quest, otherwise you are FORCED to pay the cash shop price for the ability to ride them.
Furthermore, why has competition or striving for achievement and excellence and the recognition thereof suddenly become a taboo in our society? Frankly this a a major problem in our country and our world today. No one need be made to feel guilty in taking pride that thier abilities or accomplisments exceed those of others in a particular field of endevour.
A ball-player that bat's .380 is NOT a more important PERSON then a ball-player who bats .120. However, they ARE a better ball-player and there should be no shame or guilt in them taking pride in that accomplishment nor should thier be any taboo for recognizing that accomplishment. The person batting .120 may be having a blast playing...and that's perfectly fine....games are supposed to be about fun.... However by no means should they be allowed to advance to second base after they struck out...just because the .380 batter got to second when he hit a double and everything has to be "equal".... simply put, that's no longer playing baseball.
While I agree with the sentiments around achievement, I do have a minor gripe with your example. A person batting .380 isn't necessarily a better ball-player than one hitting .120; they are a better hitter. You could have a person who is an amazing batter who is a terrible fielder, so while they contribute in their own way they may not be better than someone else based on that isolated statistic.
Everything is relative to me. I do remember getting a great sense of joy in completing content designed for 5 people in some games with 3, and being equally frustrated in not being able to enjoy some content due to limited group availability in games. Scaling is a perfectly viable alternative to this, although I do feel the rewards should be modified accordingly with the scaled difficulty.
What about players who've purchased the game in the past and are not currently subscribed? These people still shelled out for the box price, which I understand has essentially been made free now, so will they get any perks that the free to play people won't get?
My understanding is that purchasing the box or it's expansions gives you access to that content as well once LOTRO goes free to play, my last expansion being MoM if I don't continue to sub as I understand it I still get access to Moria and it's quest lines as well.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I played this game with a free trail and it was decnt up to Bree. I was a Captain and kept dying after I reached that area. That a combined with no mage class, no mounts just made this game not worth my time. Hoping the f2p features offer something worth coming back for. We shall see...
Axe
Captain is my least favorite class and I die often playing mine as well, not an easy class to solo with in my estimation. As of now there are two psuedo mage classes the first being loremaster which is in the original game the second being runekeeper my favorite of the two and that one is included in the Mines of Moria expansion. Mounts for most of the early game were only accessible at level forty but that too has changed you now have access to a mount at level twenty albeit a slower one than the one you will recieve at level forty. Level twenty mounts will most likely be a free feature as it was included for everyone but to play the Runekeeper if Turbine does as I understand it to be you would have to either purchase the class or purchase the mines of moria expansion.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Dunno if this was said or not, but if you have EVER been subscribed, you have a "premium" member instead of a "free" member.
Yes thats true, but you limited to 3 toons, and a level cap of 50, and a gold cap of 5 gold. You still have to pay to unlock all that and the eriador quests again.
You get the bonuses from each of the expansions when purchased. You can be a free player and get all of the quests in the game up until seige of mirkwood if you had bought all of the expansions up until that point. The cap is raised to 65 as well I'm pretty sure even if you are on free if you have the expansions.
Dunno if this was said or not, but if you have EVER been subscribed, you have a "premium" member instead of a "free" member.
Yes thats true, but you limited to 3 toons, and a level cap of 50, and a gold cap of 5 gold. You still have to pay to unlock all that and the eriador quests again.
At least those can be purchased away. The mail, chat and auction limitations cannot be purchased away, only lifted for VIP.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Comments
I have to venture that the whole "Scaling difficulty to fit the party" thing in games is a bit of a cheap trick as well. I mean, understand WHY Dev's are tempted to do it...but it actualy defeats the purpose a bit.
Scaling difficulty to meet an individual (or groups) ability is great.. FOR PRACTICE, EXCERSIZE and LEARNING. It stinks for actual enjoyment in play. I used to do that when PRACTICING sports with some-one that was at a lower skill level then I.... "It's called playing to a persons level." It's great for allowing a person to LEARN, UNDERSTAND and IMPROVE thier skills. Since it breaks down the process of doing something complex into simpler parts and at a speed that the person can process. You can't teach an 8 year old to improve his swing very well if Roger Clemens is throwing his hardest fastballs at him.
Yet when it comes to game time...all that SHOULD go out the window....and "playing to a persons level" is about the worst and most demeaning thing you can do to some-one....as it robs them of any real possibility of a sense of accomplishment. Imagine playing a baseball game where the speed of the pitch automaticaly adjusts to the ability of the batter. How good would you feel about hitting a triple in such a game....as opposed to one where the pitcher was throwing his hardest?
In the game sense....it's basicaly a cheap trick to avoid having to deal with the complexities of providing a challenge for groups/players of differing powers. It works perfectly fine... AS LONG AS THE PLAYER IS UNAWARE IT'S HAPPENING. The second that the player actually realizes whats going on....it'll pretty much tank alot of thier enjoyment of accomplishment.
It's kinda like hitting a home run off your arch rival....and then finding out that your rival was purposefully throwing at half-speed for you.
One thing I would like to see with the auto teleport is for them to go the WoW route and make it cross server. It would make grouping alot less taxing but I think the problem will be because of the radiance system you would have people dropping group because of inadequate rad.
Another thing from this article I just noticed is that there will be two new group factions... which means more rep grinding argghhh, I am so sick of grinding rep for so many factions along with grinding for LI (One of the reasons I have so few alts post Moria) experience and relics,gems ect.
"Onward to adventure".
I have a life time sub and a monthly sub with a 65 minstrel and a 65 warden. I will take a look again but i think i would rather play Vanguard than lotro, it's ten time better IMO.
The rp in lotro is one the best but i can't see Laurelin staying as mature and RP friendly once the FTP crew joins, i just hope they have a strict policy on the RP servers.
Ah the Warhammer trial is only to lv 10 and keeps you in 1 zone, Thats a fraction of what the Turbine Lotro is offering , now if Mythic let you get to lv 40 and stop your renown at 40 (rather then the current rr80) then you might have a argument.
What you described in DDO erictlewis was a bug that was fixed. I too had a paid sub, let it expire and then came back and my account has always said Premium. Now as far as instances being locked out, that is true, but NO you do not need to resub and then let it lapse to be a Premium player. Turbine has already said: Anyone that has ever spent money on LotRO will be considered a Premium account when the F2p option starts.
As far as being locked out of quests - Yes, if it's past the lvl 20 and below Moria you'll be locked out, that means the LoneLands, North Downs, Trollshaws etc..... until you buy them. Why? Because when you 'bought' the original SoA box, you weren't buying the content, only renting it as long as you had a sub. As far as buying MoM & SoM, those were self contained expansions so when you bought those, you bought the quests in them and will still own them to play in.
Premium perks - you get more toon slots than a F2p type, higher gold limit and some others. Better than a Free player and not as good as a paid sub.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
I am not sure why the industry is in the 15 dollars or nothing mode either. To be far though, LOTRO had a 9.99 option or like 9.97 options for buying three months at a time and some other games too but largely this mentality that we should do anything to save a game but lower the monthly price seems odd to me.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Just my opinion, but it seems a lot of subscribers to the game are over-reacting to the shift.
Remember, you can continue to subscribe and continue to play the same way you have always played. Yes, it's likely that content updates will no longer be free, but rather require purchase. However, as a subscriber, you will be getting 500 Turbine Points free per month. Almost certainly enough to allow you to purchase content as it becomes available.
Most subscribers are probably going to want to continue subscribing. There may be some people who will find that given their progression in the game, it may make sense for them to drop down to F2P, at least for a while. For example, if you have already purchased MoM and have just started the content there. etc...
I think part of the problem is that some subscribers are feeling it's unfair that they might have to continue paying a sub to play, while other people will be playing for free. The fact of the matter is that most F2P players who advance beyond the starting areas will be paying, one way or the other; either by being enticed into converting to a subscription, or by purchasing content as they go. The alternative routes to higher advancement in the game do not in any way diminish what subscribers have paid for or continue to pay for.
The main benefit for the game from switching to this hybrid model is that it does open the game up to people who might like the game, but would not have tried it otherwise. It's also great for more casual players, who may consider LotRO as a second, or even third MMO. While they may not be able to justify $15/month for a game thay play a few times a month, the game suddenly becomes very accessible under the new model.
I think my only concern with the actual form of the new model is the fact that people will be able to buy virtues outright. Accelerators is one thing, but total unlocks will rub many people the wrong way. However, people who have earned them the old fashion way will still have the sense of achievment and the knowledge that they didn't have to pay cash for it. As they progress in the game, they will have the option of continuing to earn them through hard work, accelerating the kill related ones, or buying some future virtues outright.
Of course, in the end, the biggest benefit for long term subscribers is the fact that the game now at least has a chance to stay financially afloat and hopefully eventually deliver on the entire epic storyline. Rather than fretting over whether or not someone else might find a way to enjoy the game with less time and money investment, just continue to enjoy the game! Your experience of the game is what counts, so stop worrying about wther or not the grass is greener in someone elses lawn!
If the change keeps the game alive and allows for a more robust release schedule of new content and future expansions, it should be seen as a win by everyone and much better than the alternative!
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Virtues, trait and xp potions and from what I read in the interview with Massively , Cash Shop items will be available to alliviate some of the time involved with crafting I can only imagine but its a pretty good bet that crafting materials will be what that means as aquiring ore, hides or whatever is the most time consuming part of crafting. But then, at least at low levels it may be needed to advance as the competition for ore nodes will be crazy.
As for nothing changing for sub payers, yes, I got that email form Turbine. Just keep paying your sub and we will take care of the rest is what it said, cant quote it exactly without looking, but talk about a red flag. Nothing ive seen since has made the red flag go down either. For the sake of my Kin I hope it works out for those who stay and for the rest of you folks as well.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
HUH??
WHAT???
Umm yeah I'm thinking your way off base here. No I'm not going to explain at all since it would take far longer to do so than is worth. What I will do is recommend you take a little time on a trial and play some City of Heros to see how scaling difficulty to fit the party actually benefits a game. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you sound like one of those 'hard core elitist' types who believe having the special accomplishement actually makes you more important than anyone else in a game.
Me, I'ld much rather have a game environment where I can get a team together, no matter the members levels, that can work together on an objective, no matter how many thier are logged in at that time. You can keep the 'must have 12 people of xx level logged in at exactly 9pm to do our raid or we cant do it tonight'.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
It's really not any sort of envy about how much person X is playing compared to person Y. It's about the ways in which this move can negatively effect the game-play environment for those currently playing. Make no mistake, it definately CAN. Whether it WILL and to what degree remains to be determined. But here are some things thier model certainly could cause to happen:
1) Harder to police griefers, abusers, hackers. Essentialy with some monetary commitment required in order to pay, loss of access to ones account comes at a tangible penalty. Without that there is essentialy nothing to keep hackers/griefers/banners from creating an infinite number of accounts in order to carry out thier mischief. There is no cost to them when an account get's perma-banned since no money was involved in creating it. They can simply create a new one...and there is no way for Turbine to prevent them from doing so because they have no way of knowing that User459878 belongs to the same person who has already had 31 previous accounts perma-banned.
2) It can effective raise the cost of playing the game for current subscribers. With a cash shop and micro-transactions there is going to be a real temptation for Turbine to effectively raise the monthly subscription cost for regular subscribers by requiring purchases from the Cash Shop on top of thier monthly sub in order to achieve the same level of play that they had previously enjoyed with thier subscription price. For example, as subscribers we got access to Forchel for no additional money...it was included in our monthly subscription price. It is entirely possible for Turbine to require future Forchel type additions to require a purchase in the cash shop for VIP members in order to access. Doing so would effectively be forcing them to pay more for the same level of service they had under the subscription model.
3) It can adversely effect many players enjoyment of the environment. One of the reasons many people enjpy fantasy games is to simply escape from the stress and hassle of every day life. Part of that involves not having to worry about expenses. You pay the entry fee....you don't have to worry about how much you are spending to enjoy whatever features are offered within that environment. It's part of the reason why one fee, all inclusive vacations are popular....it alllows you to escape from worrying about money....as long as you know you can afford to pay the upfront entry fee, you don't need to worry about whether you can afford to get seconds at dinner or if you can afford to go down the water slide 5 times or 50 times. RMT destroys that for many people....and essentialy turns it into the same experience as going to a Casino where you constantly have to worry about how much you are spending in order to play another round. That's perfectly fine for people that enjoy the Casino experience....but a major disturbance for those that don't.
4) It can Development Focus. Under the subscription model the natural focus is simply on creating a fun enough play experience for the player to want to keep subscribed. With the F2P model there is a second (many would say first) development priority that tends to creep in.....finding ways to prod the player into make a purchase in the cash shop. That folks can be subtle or it can be blatantly over the top....but it is one of the things that management WILL push as a development priorty. That CAN have a VERY adverse effect of the game environment.
5) It further segments the community into those who can afford to purchase enhancements in the Cash Shop and those that Can't....which is something we haven't had to worry about in LOTRO before.
No I get it...I just don't think you do. Trust me, I'm anything but a hard core raider....I'm mostly in games for role-playing....not competition but I do understand why different people enjoy different aspects of games.
Let me ask you.... Why do you work on an objective....what meaning or benefit does it have to you? How does it provide enjoyment or satisfaction to you? Do you ever stop to consider this? Because it goes to the core of what I am talking about.
Do you enjoy gaining levels or skill points? Not all types of players do...but for "achiever" type players that is a major portion of their fun. Do you stop to consider why that is?
Could it be because it allows them to gain access to and overcome more difficult content?
Yet with scaling that no longer exists anymore...as the difficulty of content adjusts to whatever level the player is at.
For example, in a traditional old-school RPG....one of the benefits of getting to level 20 (or whatever) was that you could then go out and attempt to defeat the dragon.
Under a scaling system...that essentialy disappears...since if you are a level 1 player, the system will scale the dragons abilities to be beatable by a level 1 player. If you are level 20 it will scale it to be beatable by a level 20 player.
What then, is the point to gaining a level?
Furthermore, why has competition or striving for achievement and excellence and the recognition thereof suddenly become a taboo in our society? Frankly this a a major problem in our country and our world today. No one need be made to feel guilty in taking pride that thier abilities or accomplisments exceed those of others in a particular field of endevour.
A ball-player that bat's .380 is NOT a more important PERSON then a ball-player who bats .120. However, they ARE a better ball-player and there should be no shame or guilt in them taking pride in that accomplishment nor should thier be any taboo for recognizing that accomplishment. The person batting .120 may be having a blast playing...and that's perfectly fine....games are supposed to be about fun.... However by no means should they be allowed to advance to second base after they struck out...just because the .380 batter got to second when he hit a double and everything has to be "equal".... simply put, that's no longer playing baseball.
If you own all the expansion you will keep all the content that came with them. That includes the classes zones higher tiers the whole thing. The only people who will have to buy any content is new players after the f2p model launches.
They better not add self port abilities or quick travel other than the stables and the map port back to the assigned city. I don't even like the latter. Stables are fine..with quick travel to avoid the wait but I never liked the map port. If teleporting existed in Tolkien's world to the extent it exists in the game then the "The Lord Of the Rings" trilogy would have consisted of three paragraphs...in summary..evil comes again...Frodo teleports to Mordor...throws the ring in the lava. The End. So much for the journey.
I read somewhere that a quick travel ability to the Misty Mountains would be available in the cash shop. The way it looked it would be like the abilities hunters have but just for Misty, for now anyway.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
Honestly I didn't see LOTRO lasting very long as a P2P game. Most movie genre game buff out after the movie hype goes.
Of course there is some exceptions to that
What Ever You Do
So you can buy virtues... great. Pay To Win.
What are virtues? A virtue is a combo of three stats that improve your character. You can equip a limited number of them, but each virtue can have 10 ranks.
So rank1 determination is obtained by killing wolves in a starter area. It gives +3 agility. 10 ranks in it give 30 agility (plus some 2 other stat bonusses). Slot it and you character will enjoy those extra stats. +30 is nothing to be sneezed at BUT it takes a while to obtain. Early ranks are "easy" enough, 90 or so wolves if I remember correct. But later ranks scale up and require several hundred kills often of enemies that aren't easy to find. Woe to the person who wants might and has to hunt down bog-lurkers in the lone-lands.
Buying these virtues instead removes an AWFUL lot of grinding but gives these players a real advantage over casual gamers. Current stats are limited at 650 for max level, so 30 points makes a significant difference.
Seeing the prices so far, the shop is also going to be expensive and I shudder to think what you can buy in the shop that relates to crafting. Just buy mithril flakes and stacks of ore?
BUT what I fear most of all is that Turbine has so far screwed EVERY change in the game and ALL the systems have had multiple adjustments.
Fear/Poison/Wound/Disease potions as a money sink... who bothers when the countdown is 60 seconds for all the pots together and you get hit with a new debuff in 5 seconds? Just get used to limping when dealing with wargs and save some cash.
Critical item for crafting, rare item drops for crafting. LOTS of adjustment to the point you never know what it is going to be now. Cooks have had multiple adjustments. Prices are still all over the place. Why do some proffesions need bought ingredients and others don't?
Fish bait, GONE.
Block/Evade/Parry change upsetting all classes that relied on it, essential change for the future it might be, but once again handled poorly.
Low level horse for NEW players, old players got nothing.
Legendary Items, the weapon that stays with you and grows with you, and you dump it the moment you get a better one...
Radiance gear, once again, bad introduction resulting in endless tweaking.
Fine, so Turbine tweaks the game a lot. But with a cash-shop, people will have paid hard cash for their items, you can't then just change them. I think that the cash shop will as badly thought out as countless other elements of the game.
The F2P move will attract some players who can enjoy SoA but will be reluctant to pay the high prices. SoA is currently and empty affair with only old hands grouping with people they already know. New comers face an uncaring world. This won't improve.
The old hands will lock themselves up past the gates of Moria and the game will continue to bleed to dead, with SWTOR probably cutting its throat wide open.
Great, I really am starting to look forward to this now
.. Scaling instances! Amazing.
I dont think there is any cause for negativity, there is a huge amount of *really good* content in lotro, since its release its turned into quite an astonishing game. it plays silky smooth, and the envoiroments are breathtaking.
Oh god I sound like a salesman, now, i'll stop
But yea, if you've not played lotro for a year or so and plan to check it out for the free2p you'll wonder why you never tried it befre
Sfc, far as I remember, the horse is just a limited time deal from the bag.
To actually get a horse, you'll have to subscribe so you can actually do the quest, otherwise you are FORCED to pay the cash shop price for the ability to ride them.
While I agree with the sentiments around achievement, I do have a minor gripe with your example. A person batting .380 isn't necessarily a better ball-player than one hitting .120; they are a better hitter. You could have a person who is an amazing batter who is a terrible fielder, so while they contribute in their own way they may not be better than someone else based on that isolated statistic.
Everything is relative to me. I do remember getting a great sense of joy in completing content designed for 5 people in some games with 3, and being equally frustrated in not being able to enjoy some content due to limited group availability in games. Scaling is a perfectly viable alternative to this, although I do feel the rewards should be modified accordingly with the scaled difficulty.
My understanding is that purchasing the box or it's expansions gives you access to that content as well once LOTRO goes free to play, my last expansion being MoM if I don't continue to sub as I understand it I still get access to Moria and it's quest lines as well.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Captain is my least favorite class and I die often playing mine as well, not an easy class to solo with in my estimation. As of now there are two psuedo mage classes the first being loremaster which is in the original game the second being runekeeper my favorite of the two and that one is included in the Mines of Moria expansion. Mounts for most of the early game were only accessible at level forty but that too has changed you now have access to a mount at level twenty albeit a slower one than the one you will recieve at level forty. Level twenty mounts will most likely be a free feature as it was included for everyone but to play the Runekeeper if Turbine does as I understand it to be you would have to either purchase the class or purchase the mines of moria expansion.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Dunno if this was said or not, but if you have EVER been subscribed, you have a "premium" member instead of a "free" member.
Yes thats true, but you limited to 3 toons, and a level cap of 50, and a gold cap of 5 gold. You still have to pay to unlock all that and the eriador quests again.
You get the bonuses from each of the expansions when purchased. You can be a free player and get all of the quests in the game up until seige of mirkwood if you had bought all of the expansions up until that point. The cap is raised to 65 as well I'm pretty sure even if you are on free if you have the expansions.
At least those can be purchased away. The mail, chat and auction limitations cannot be purchased away, only lifted for VIP.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.