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How is it that Arenanet can have guild wars two have no subscription?
BioNut
Member Posts: 414
in Guild Wars 2
The first game was heavily instanced with only lobbyish "MMO" areas so I can understand how that could maybe cut down on costs. But how will a fully open world game remain subscription or MT free? Are they expecting enough from box costs alone?
If Anet can deliver a fully functional MMO without subcriptions or MT then we are just getting screwed by all of these other companies.
Playing: Tera, BF3, ME3
Waiting on: Guild Wars 2
Comments
I guess its time we stop bending over.
GW2 does look awesome
The original Guild Wars sold around 6 million copies over the course of its lifetime, which is pretty astounding for a game that most considered not a "true mmo". While the game did offer a small assortment of items in its shop (character slots, skill unlocks) the game never even came close to forcing you to buy anything you needed to be competitive. Everything, save for the character slots, could be earned 100% in game.
I'm assuming Guild Wars 2 will follow the same design model, only this time in a more open world environment that will still most likely have some instancing, although not on the same scale we saw in Guild Wars.
My Guild Wars 2 Vids
Look at eve, Runes of magic, and now LOTR
They are all free to play and Eve and Runes of magic are highly populated and get updates often. Runes of magic has a cash shop but its the best free to play mmo out there
mostly i want to know how it will give acurrate number of playerbase
1st gw sold few millions but i dont think current players passes 1m
my punches are as strong as kicks
If the game is going to be as open as they say I expect they will have a bigger cash shop this time around to help cover the cost.
Essentially ArenaNet figures in the life expectancy of each player to be playing. They budget out their money very very carefully. They figure out the dev cost and expected sales. If you take a look at Guild Wars and at its expansions. Its business model had you paying more than the average sub cost of an MMO.
If they generate enough revenue per box and get that minimum box sales break even point low enough, then its a working model. I believe it may be a bit riskier depending on what you plan to pay for with that inital box sale, but most single-player games do not have sub costs and rely on box sales.
We'll see how it goes.
Are we getting screwed? Only if you believe that the money spent is not worth the time played. Then again, you are welcome to not pay money for something you don't believe is worth it.
EVE is the other way around. They dont have a cost for the initial box unless you want to pay for it. It does have a monthly sub.
EVE is not f2p. It is subscription based. You CAN buy game time with in-game currency, but someone else had to pay for that game time the first time.
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
ummm, it hasn't been confirmed one way or another yet has it? I think you might just see NCSoft charge for it this time around and have a subscription of some form. If there is clarification somewhere I would love to see it, because I haven't heard anything official since sometime in 2007
I will be very surprised if this isn't subscription based.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/04/28/guild-wars-2-interview-part-1-fighting-fires/
Eric Flannum: We're basically the same pricing model as GW1
The GW2 official site FAQ says the game will not have a subscription.
Hehe, yes, it does give food for thought, eh?
It's always been my conviction that all game companies can keep server maintenance and ongoing development with far lower sub numbers than is commonly believed by the public or proclaimed by game companies. Box sales and expansion sales cover a lot of the cost, anything above a relatively low threshold of subs isn't going into maintenance and development, but other projects and channels within the company,
So yes, ANet, ftw! Show it to them.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yeah, we are being screwed right now. The rest of the mmo companies are just a bunch of greedy guys. really.
cool, but, he goes on to say: Eric Flannum:
"We’re basically the same pricing model as GW1. No monthly fee. Boxes, expansion and microtransactions for our revenue."
Guess it depends how much further they take that part whether this is truly free or is 'F2P' in the same way DDO, RoM etc are (i.e. you have to pay to actually really progress and enjoy on a serious level). I hope that there is nothing outside the box charge because I would like to check it out when it comes around again for the PVP but have zero interest in the 'leveling' part of it, and the PVE they are proposing. I want more of the original in other words
what I don't want to see is, yet another, asian inspired generic fantasy grind MMO with levels.
I think the only reason many of us look forward to GW2 is for the 'instant max-level, all equipment, build your 'deck'' style PVP that the original did so well.Personally I would rather they had cut all PvE (but maybe a minority there) but as long as I can PVP as i did with GW without paying additional fees then I am in
woah what? I've been a GW player for... well, 4+ years with all 3 games and the expansion. I've paid about the same amount I've paid for Aion, which I've only owned for 10 months. GW buisness model has you paying WAY less than a normal P2P MMO, WAAAAY less. just look at how much you'd have to pay for WoW if you've been playing for 4+ years (box +2 expansions = 150 + 4 years of $15 = over $800)
So i've paid 1/4th as much for GW as WoW.... don't see how your numbers work.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
I can certainly appreciate your logic Cyphers, whilst it is intriguing how F2P games manage to keep running, one still has to wonder why other MMO's get shut down at all if costs are actually lower than they appear to be.
Take Tabula Rasa and MxO. Both were run by companies who don't heavily rely on the products. So unless it was a case that the companies just couldn't be bothered with the maintenance of the game, then one has to wonder what the causes were.
And also, if the ACTUAL costs of development and ongoing maintenance of an MMO is relatively lower than anticipated, where is all the money going? Perhaps one could argue that perhaps a large chunk maybe going to the owners of IP's (if an MMO was based on a third party IP).
Maybe the fact that a game is categorised by its owners as "F2P" means that its investors naturally have a more relaxed attitude in terms of expectations on when they will see a return on their investment? Therefore, although costs are higher than you think, the timescale to expect a return is far longer than that of a P2P game. Only those actually in the business will know for sure. One thing for sure is, the actual running costs of MMO's is a well kept secret.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Like you say, DDO actually relies heavily on microtransactions like other games. Sure, in theory you CAN play without ever buying the dungeons that are on offer, but it will be really boring. But one wonders if the return from such micro-transactions is enough to keep the game going or whether there is something else that is helping the game continue running.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
As long as the micro transactions follow the current ones then it really shouldn't be a problem.
Currently the shop offers- skill unlock packs, item unlock packs, fluff armour, extra character slots, makover, pet unlock, name change and there is some game content you can buy.
The Bonus Missions Pack, came originally as a gift for spending a small amount in their cash shop for a limited time period, there was much much outcry from those that hadn't got it when they realised there were some lovely weapon skins as rewards, it became purchasable content a month later. The content is small, great gameplay and nice if you're in to the lore and liked the weapon skins, nothing like the purchasable content we see in DDO and soon in LotRO. It consists of 4 solo missions.
If they keep the same attitude with GW2 and that shop as they did for GW1 we will to be able to play all content and get all items in game that make a difference to our character, if your lazy you'll be able to buy some if it in the shop.
As for making money and their previous model of releasing expansions every 6 months (which they did until they decided to make GW2) then I'm going to go with them not making retail expansions every six months but offering downloadable content that will add to the game on a more regular basis at differing price levels dependent on content. In six months time we might receive a content release on the scale of their previous expansiona at full game price or maybe in 2 months time we receive a small content boost (like The Bonus Mission Pack) for £5.99. Makes sense to offer all new content as downloadable, no print costs and no retail cuts.
Not even close. GW1 released 3 campaigns and 1 expansion over the course of 4 years at $60 a campaign and $30 for expansion. Thats $210 spent over the course of 4 years. Subscription games generally cost $15 a month as well as the cost for teh box and any expansions. Thats $720 from month fees ALONE. Add in box sales and one expansion thats over $800 dollars.
Your maths is so messed up it's ridiculously hilarious I mean really. Ofc percieved cost is in the eye of the beholder and some are willing to pay more for long term entertainment but regardless your maths is mind numbingly hilarious.
It will be interesting to see what sort of game GWs 2 really is. Should it be full featured like a traditional P2P MMO and succeed with this pricing model it will probably lead to a radical shake up in the pricing structure of the industry.
But then again, we seem to be already headed for a future of alternative pricing models and options, so why not add one more to the mix.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I agree with this...we can't see how GW2 compares to traditional P2P models till we see how the game plays and how it is updated and added to compared to p2p games and compared to other business models.We won't know that till after GW2 is launched and running for at least 6 months but probably fairer to comapre after a year.
Sit and do the math.. Yes, they have been screwing us, however, can't blame them, since as subs we religiously fork over the monthly fee wihout question..
There's always SRPG's and the such..
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
you are right if the example is single sustained subscription for 4 years.
that simply isnt always the case in reality. average subsription time per user that buys an mmo is likely 20% (possibly much less) of the total lifetime of a game.
The added extra number of sales that arenanet gets simply because of the lack of subscription fees means the net profit is probably closer to the profitability of the monthly subscription model than one would expect.
Ok, I'll bite.
1. Its been 5 years.
2. The original plan was one campaign every 6 months ($100/year)
3. They have sales from their online store
4. They designed the game to cost less to maintain by instancing out (districts) towns and zones
5. You're assuming every sale they've had has continued to play the game every day since they've purchased the box
6. You're assuming they're spending the same amount to maintain servers as non-instanced games
7. You don't look like a flaming fanboy if you can bother to type out full words and take a shot at grammar.
Original Guild Wars was released in April 2005 and Eye of the North was released in Aug 2007 ie is in total 29 months.
I have spent in total around $200 on the box ( all campaigns) and around $60 over the period of 2 years on small purchases of PVP kit + storage pane + costumes etc.
So for this franchise I have spent $260 over the period and never felt for 1 moment I was losing anything after all it was subs free.Not to mention that 3 of those were standalone games , you did not need all 3 to play many of my guidies just had factions and nightfall.
1) If I were to break GW in subs that would be $50 + 16 months subs approx. Lets compare
2) AOC - Box + campains around $85 + 5 months in total subs
3) WAR $50 + 3 months subs
4) Darkfall $50 +3 months subs
5) STO $50 + 2 month subs
6) AION - $50 + 3 months subs
So no mmo in the past 2 years has been able to retain subs numbers and on the other hand money has been steadily been paid to ANet.
Anet has a good business model + smart business strategy.
With Guild wars 2 it will be the same .It will easily pass 1 million people in intial buy( by pessimistic view) .7 months down the line Anet will come out with an add on or expac and most of these 1 million people will buy the 2 nd game .the best part of this model if i am not able to play for a month or 2 i dont lose any money .Game is still accesable for me 24/7.
While all the MMO have been solely targetiung subs or RMT model or just your wallet (cryptic ) Anet has been quietely building a base for future ventures.
What do people think when it comes to studios
1) cryptic - moneu grabbing whores
2) Epic /Goa - Failure
3) funcom - Secret world looks nice but are they going to ruin it like AOC.
4) Indie devs - You need to support us, pay us now so that we can buy computers to develop a game
5) Ncsoft - Aion - F#$% asian grinders
6) Anet - Wow cant wait for their next project. This team is rdy to take risk , break the mould .
Also they way they use their server clusters is very effective in cutting down costs.You are not tied up to any server same avatar can be taken to EU or US populations.Very very less the game was ever offline .Online streaming.
For me $50 on my 1st buy of GW 2 feels like an investment in entertainment.