Ram is on the end of my upgrade list so no worries, id rather look into a new gpu for sure.
At the least ill look forward to seeing how my system performs with that new cpu now as well as how it runs FF14 when it launches, i can figure out the gpu upgrade then.
Waiting For: FF14,Guild Wars2 RIP: Tabula Rasa&Hellgate:London(online) Playing:Fallen Earth&Guild Wars& Dragon Age
Apparently atleast ATI will be releasing their new cards at the end of this year I think? I'm not really current when it comes to "what is coming out soon" but yeah as far as your gpu situation, you'd have to drop over 200 to see a noticeable increase at this point, or like I said crossfire if your computer could. Hard to find 4890's and they're not cheap either, but it'd be the biggest actual increase in framerate for 200~ for anything that takes advantage of dual cards, which as of the beta, FFXIV does not yet.
My advice is wait until the game actually releases before upgrading. At most I would buy a new GPU, a 5850 is a good choice as I use one myself.
Always better to just wait a few weeks and see what you actually need to upgrade, unless you are just looking for an excuse to buy some new stuff. In that case a new GPU and more RAM would be on my list. Anything beyond that your probably gonna be building an entire new system as you will need proc, mobo, power supply, ect.
I may actually upgrade a bit myself, But not before I actually see how well the actual game runs, not basing any decisions on a benchmark.
I had been looking at a couple of 5850's , then a friend of mine suggested i look at the nvidia GTX 460's as another option as well.
so ill be doing a little homework off and on between now and then.
Those are definitely the cards you need to look at. Both should be pretty nice upgrades but for 220+ maybe not the craziness you'd expect/want out of that kind of money simply because your card is still working rather nicely against most of the current solutions.
*Edit* My bad I was thinking the 5850 was at the 200+ pricepoint, that's the 5830. Definitely wouldn't bother with a 5830 and that actualy means a 460 is a bit weaker than I thought just now, the benchmark I'm referring to right now is from right before the 460. That and a radeon 5830 trade blows pretty often depending what game/resolution you're talking about, those two might be smaller upgrades than I imagined then. Check some benchmarks and remember you're probably not going to push high end cards to their extremes with your processor.
I tried closed beta with my low config computer very quickly.
cons :
- Not for low config ( for not saying bad engine) = low fps (even when i only executer the game launcher !)
- Not for keyboard = auto orientation (like in console game) and "hold left click" to rotate is just unplayable
- Dialog old system = remind me Everquest system (without keyword ^_^), quest dialog appears in chat box (like console game)
- Lost in the city = when i start i don't know what to do and where to go (plus the first city is very small....). Some zone were closed, so it took me 30min to find the "exit" to see the first mob...
- Take 10 secondes to begin the fight = need to active a button to be in combat mode take 10sec and the system of targeting (like in console game again) is too hard and slow for mouse (on my computer of course).
- More personnal : I like when we don't "zone" (load the new zone) = in that game we have a lot of "zoning" (WoW biggest quality compared to EQ1 to me with instance raid/group to me btw)
pros :
- Good graphism = with a good computer it will be beautifull
- It is a beta = we can only expect better ^_^
conclusion :
It is a console gameplay, not a PC one.
I will try open beta if it comes to see if it is better and because i like testing. I like classic PC mmorpg gameplay like EQ, WoW, Vanguard, Lineage 2... FF XI was, FF XIV is not.
I tried to tell myself the benchmark was wrong as well. Then i got into beta, i run amd 6400 x2 OC to 3.6, 8800GT, 4 gigs ram. The game is only playable in low res with everything lowest it can go. Even then sometimes its not. Just beware of people saying its not accurate because it is, only thing that isnt accurate is sli/crossfire atm!
I tried to tell myself the benchmark was wrong as well. Then i got into beta, i run amd 6400 x2 OC to 3.6, 8800GT, 4 gigs ram. The game is only playable in low res with everything lowest it can go. Even then sometimes its not. Just beware of people saying its not accurate because it is, only thing that isnt accurate is sli/crossfire atm!
I have been thinking about what to do for upgrades myself, I know I need RAM and a video card, just not sure which. I'm not looking to have the game cranked up to max, I'd be happy with a middle of the road setting. I also don't know anything about overclocking, here's my specs, it's not pretty though.
I was thinking about adding in 4GB of RAM to bring me up to 8GB and video card is where I'm really unsure. I used to have a card that ran EQII fine, but that burnt out and put me back using the intergrated card. I'd say I don't really want to spend more than $200.
my benchmark score was around 3k on low, and it doesn't run that well at all. I just built new system rdy to play it. The 8800GT runz everything decent cept the weather, when its storming, the trees sway etc. Kills any older gfx card, to be safe i would get a quad core, at lowest a GTS 250, 4-6gb ram and u should be easily good to go in 720p, but with my current setup a couple threads up, i can't even play it on 720, whe benchmark said i could
As stated before unless your looking for an excuse, just wait till about 1-2 weeks before release then do your upgrades, everything is still sorta up in the error, and the benchmark doesn't help much tbh.
Sorry, but this game is not optimized properly, I would wait to buy new upgrades for you computer, definately don't base your upgrades on this game. If you want to upgrade you system, look to games that have already been released, properly optimized and use sites that have benchmarks tested by profressionals such as guru3d.com.
This game has EQ2 and Vanguard written all over it. It seems to be a poorly optimized engine and the I bet the devs will keep telling us that "it is built for computers of the future!" for the next 4 years. Maybe they based the engine on computers using 4 terabytes of ram, or octo-cores that each run at 4ghz..
At any rate, this game is going to be the biggest dissapointment since... probably Age of Conan or Vanguard.
Good luck, I hope it turns out good. If it works out well, I'll check it out 6 months after lauch. This game is definately not a pre-order game, or even a buy at launch game for me.
I tried to tell myself the benchmark was wrong as well. Then i got into beta, i run amd 6400 x2 OC to 3.6, 8800GT, 4 gigs ram. The game is only playable in low res with everything lowest it can go. Even then sometimes its not. Just beware of people saying its not accurate because it is, only thing that isnt accurate is sli/crossfire atm!
The benchmark is not accurate. At all.
As with many benchmarks, they are mostly a cash grab made in collaberation with the game maker and GPU supporter (in this case, SE and nvidia) for the sole purpose of scaring people to upgrade (and they usually upgrade the GPU.) The benchmarks aren't optimized or have every feature set to high or close to it. If anyone remembers the first benchmark for FFXI, it gave horrible scores randomly, and the same people with the terrible scores ran the game on default settings fine (except in Jeuno during peak hours.)
Should also touch upon your personal experience of the beta and stability. You're playing the beta. Beta clients almost always have behind-the-scenes software running alongside the game to help the developers further enhance performance and squash bugs easier. A good example of this occured with Age of Conan. The client was very laggy during beta for many players, and even into launch because they kept the debugging feature enabled. After they turned it off a few days into launch, many people were able to run the game normally. (Aside from those suffering the memory leak issues.)
The game is still in beta and final optomizations are not in place yet (and the beta is definately running debugging software along with it.) Wait until release to figure out if you need to upgrade, unless you are below or right on the required specs listed by SE on their site.
I tried to tell myself the benchmark was wrong as well. Then i got into beta, i run amd 6400 x2 OC to 3.6, 8800GT, 4 gigs ram. The game is only playable in low res with everything lowest it can go. Even then sometimes its not. Just beware of people saying its not accurate because it is, only thing that isnt accurate is sli/crossfire atm!
The benchmark is not accurate. At all.
As with many benchmarks, they are mostly a cash grab made in collaberation with the game maker and GPU supporter (in this case, SE and nvidia) for the sole purpose of scaring people to upgrade (and they usually upgrade the GPU.) The benchmarks aren't optimized or have every feature set to high or close to it. If anyone remembers the first benchmark for FFXI, it gave horrible scores randomly, and the same people with the terrible scores ran the game on default settings fine (except in Jeuno during peak hours.)
Should also touch upon your personal experience of the beta and stability. You're playing the beta. Beta clients almost always have behind-the-scenes software running alongside the game to help the developers further enhance performance and squash bugs easier. A good example of this occured with Age of Conan. The client was very laggy during beta for many players, and even into launch because they kept the debugging feature enabled. After they turned it off a few days into launch, many people were able to run the game normally. (Aside from those suffering the memory leak issues.)
The game is still in beta and final optomizations are not in place yet (and the beta is definately running debugging software along with it.) Wait until release to figure out if you need to upgrade, unless you are below or right on the required specs listed by SE on their site.
I could almost cut/paste what you are saying from a Vanguard post in January 2007.
When will people learn?
The beta is not bogged down by background software... It is not going to drastically improve in less than 2 months time. Using Age of Conan as some kind of standard for positive launches is not very rational either.
Whatever optimizations they think they can pull off, the picture looks very bleak to me.
We should all expect and demand that the games we pay our hard earned money for are quality and not poorly optimized, half-assed ,box sale money grabs.
You're negative about every aspect of the game. Find another forum of a game you actually like because obviously that's going to be your only thought here and we get it, thanks for your input.
You're negative about every aspect of the game. Find another forum of a game you actually like because obviously that's going to be your only thought here and we get it, thanks for your input.
I could almost cut/paste what you are saying from a Vanguard post in January 2007.
When will people learn?
The beta is not bogged down by background software... It is not going to drastically improve in less than 2 months time. Using Age of Conan as some kind of standard for positive launches is not very rational either.
Whatever optimizations they think they can pull off, the picture looks very bleak to me.
We should all expect and demand that the games we pay our hard earned money for are quality and not poorly optimized, half-assed ,box sale money grabs.
I didn't use Vanguard for a reason and instead used Age of Conan. I never said AoC had a positive launch -- at all. I only used one of the problems AoC was suffering as an example, as it served its purpose. You also need to remember that Square-Enix has more money than these other MMO companies; they're able to hold off their game and release it when its ready/mostly optimized.
I'm sorry the picture looks bleak for you. However, until you can say, "I told you so," I would sit and wait to see what happens at launch and a week or so after. If that's too much for you, I do suggest you find another game to occupy your time.
Really all I can say. If you want to upgrade your PC (and have the spare cash to do it), then go ahead. However, if you're flailing about, worried you won't be able to play, wait and see what happens at launch. I'm quite sure you'll be fine.
You're negative about every aspect of the game. Find another forum of a game you actually like because obviously that's going to be your only thought here and we get it, thanks for your input.
don't tell me what to do. you're welcome
Sit here and flame and hate then. You know, instead of focusing on something you might actually enjoy, just be an ass to people about an unfinished game still working through development and changes.
That is a tool for your GPU selection. You can put in your FFXIV Benchmark Score and GPU and it will give you a good estimate of what you would get with a different GPU.
I have been thinking about what to do for upgrades myself, I know I need RAM and a video card, just not sure which. I'm not looking to have the game cranked up to max, I'd be happy with a middle of the road setting. I also don't know anything about overclocking, here's my specs, it's not pretty though.
I was thinking about adding in 4GB of RAM to bring me up to 8GB and video card is where I'm really unsure. I used to have a card that ran EQII fine, but that burnt out and put me back using the intergrated card. I'd say I don't really want to spend more than $200.
You do realize that a 32 bits system only can handle 4 gb and that is included the GFX memory?
Sorry but I think you'll need a new machine for FF XIV anyways. The processor is to slow and it would take water cooling to get it up to the 3ghz or so which is what you needed from what I heard (and from the not 100% reliable benchtest).
Of course a Corsair H50 liquid cooling system would do it, it cost something like 80 bucks but it is kinda hard work to change it, took me half an hour and I work a lot with computers. And overclocking is risky if you don't know what you are doing, even people who does mess up at times.
Then you probably have DDR 1 or 2 memories, 2 is ok but one is far to slow. 3 is to prefer.
And the GFX card is hopelessly outdated, it was crappy already when it was new, my traveling laptop laughs at it.
My advice: Check if the motherboard can handle a better processor. Otherwise get a new processor, new MB, new memory and new GDX card. Also check how much the PSU (Power supply unit) can take. And change to Windows 7 64 bits.
As for GFX card I would get a Nvidia 470 or a ATI 5850 for performance and price, depending on which you prefer. The 460 and 5830 are a bit low for this game, it is worse than AoC at launch for how good stuff you'll need.
New cpu is now in. benchmark on hi res setting now rates at 2458.
so i did in fact get a boost from the cpu. So thats a relief, one small step down. Gotta start somewhere after all
Congrats, I guess is the best word to use here =P
2500 is around where you should top out at without overclocking and the like. I get a 2200~ with one of my 4870's disabled in the benchmark, and I have the exact same processor. You probably have low-ish speeds ddr2 like me as well. I'm running my processor at 3.4ghz and each of my 4870's slightly overclocked too, the asus one more than the XFX one as it seems to run a lot hotter. Not something you should do willy nilly but all parts like these are pretty much made to be tweaked with a bit.
i didnt read through all the posts but i was running a AMD x2 2.90 CPu and it got about 15 frames (frames are capped at 30) FYI. im running a 9800GTX+ in my computer i replaced the x2 CPU and now have a AMD x4 3.4 and i now run this game at max settings running 30FPS so dont replace your GPU replace your CPU
Oi didnt see that till after post you should be fine in the beta now trust me i got like 1300 i think or was it 1800 >_> well anyways i run the game at max besides in heavy traffic towns so dont worry your fine the BM is retarded
i didnt read through all the posts but i was running a AMD x2 2.90 CPu and it got about 15 frames (frames are capped at 30) FYI. im running a 9800GTX+ in my computer i replaced the x2 CPU and now have a AMD x4 3.4 and i now run this game at max settings running 30FPS so dont replace your GPU replace your CPU
Is that Athlon or Phenom and which socket AM 3 or 2+? I've never put together a AMD they have all been intel over the years. I'm putting together a PC for my cousin so he can play 14 and I decided to go AMD route since it will be cheaper for him. I haven't decided either to go with Athlon II x4 or Phenom II x2.
Comments
Ram is on the end of my upgrade list so no worries, id rather look into a new gpu for sure.
At the least ill look forward to seeing how my system performs with that new cpu now as well as how it runs FF14 when it launches, i can figure out the gpu upgrade then.
Waiting For: FF14,Guild Wars2
RIP: Tabula Rasa&Hellgate:London(online)
Playing:Fallen Earth&Guild Wars& Dragon Age
Apparently atleast ATI will be releasing their new cards at the end of this year I think? I'm not really current when it comes to "what is coming out soon" but yeah as far as your gpu situation, you'd have to drop over 200 to see a noticeable increase at this point, or like I said crossfire if your computer could. Hard to find 4890's and they're not cheap either, but it'd be the biggest actual increase in framerate for 200~ for anything that takes advantage of dual cards, which as of the beta, FFXIV does not yet.
My advice is wait until the game actually releases before upgrading. At most I would buy a new GPU, a 5850 is a good choice as I use one myself.
Always better to just wait a few weeks and see what you actually need to upgrade, unless you are just looking for an excuse to buy some new stuff. In that case a new GPU and more RAM would be on my list. Anything beyond that your probably gonna be building an entire new system as you will need proc, mobo, power supply, ect.
I may actually upgrade a bit myself, But not before I actually see how well the actual game runs, not basing any decisions on a benchmark.
Just my 2cp.
I had been looking at a couple of 5850's , then a friend of mine suggested i look at the nvidia GTX 460's as another option as well.
so ill be doing a little homework off and on between now and then.
Waiting For: FF14,Guild Wars2
RIP: Tabula Rasa&Hellgate:London(online)
Playing:Fallen Earth&Guild Wars& Dragon Age
Those are definitely the cards you need to look at. Both should be pretty nice upgrades but for 220+ maybe not the craziness you'd expect/want out of that kind of money simply because your card is still working rather nicely against most of the current solutions.
*Edit* My bad I was thinking the 5850 was at the 200+ pricepoint, that's the 5830. Definitely wouldn't bother with a 5830 and that actualy means a 460 is a bit weaker than I thought just now, the benchmark I'm referring to right now is from right before the 460. That and a radeon 5830 trade blows pretty often depending what game/resolution you're talking about, those two might be smaller upgrades than I imagined then. Check some benchmarks and remember you're probably not going to push high end cards to their extremes with your processor.
I tried closed beta with my low config computer very quickly.
cons :
- Not for low config ( for not saying bad engine) = low fps (even when i only executer the game launcher !)
- Not for keyboard = auto orientation (like in console game) and "hold left click" to rotate is just unplayable
- Dialog old system = remind me Everquest system (without keyword ^_^), quest dialog appears in chat box (like console game)
- Lost in the city = when i start i don't know what to do and where to go (plus the first city is very small....). Some zone were closed, so it took me 30min to find the "exit" to see the first mob...
- Take 10 secondes to begin the fight = need to active a button to be in combat mode take 10sec and the system of targeting (like in console game again) is too hard and slow for mouse (on my computer of course).
- More personnal : I like when we don't "zone" (load the new zone) = in that game we have a lot of "zoning" (WoW biggest quality compared to EQ1 to me with instance raid/group to me btw)
pros :
- Good graphism = with a good computer it will be beautifull
- It is a beta = we can only expect better ^_^
conclusion :
It is a console gameplay, not a PC one.
I will try open beta if it comes to see if it is better and because i like testing. I like classic PC mmorpg gameplay like EQ, WoW, Vanguard, Lineage 2... FF XI was, FF XIV is not.
I tried to tell myself the benchmark was wrong as well. Then i got into beta, i run amd 6400 x2 OC to 3.6, 8800GT, 4 gigs ram. The game is only playable in low res with everything lowest it can go. Even then sometimes its not. Just beware of people saying its not accurate because it is, only thing that isnt accurate is sli/crossfire atm!
Well what was your score?
I have been thinking about what to do for upgrades myself, I know I need RAM and a video card, just not sure which. I'm not looking to have the game cranked up to max, I'd be happy with a middle of the road setting. I also don't know anything about overclocking, here's my specs, it's not pretty though.
OS: Windows Vista SP2 32bit
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5000+ 2.60GHz
RAM: 2GB
Video: NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE nForce430 128mb
I was thinking about adding in 4GB of RAM to bring me up to 8GB and video card is where I'm really unsure. I used to have a card that ran EQII fine, but that burnt out and put me back using the intergrated card. I'd say I don't really want to spend more than $200.
my benchmark score was around 3k on low, and it doesn't run that well at all. I just built new system rdy to play it. The 8800GT runz everything decent cept the weather, when its storming, the trees sway etc. Kills any older gfx card, to be safe i would get a quad core, at lowest a GTS 250, 4-6gb ram and u should be easily good to go in 720p, but with my current setup a couple threads up, i can't even play it on 720, whe benchmark said i could
As stated before unless your looking for an excuse, just wait till about 1-2 weeks before release then do your upgrades, everything is still sorta up in the error, and the benchmark doesn't help much tbh.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Sorry, but this game is not optimized properly, I would wait to buy new upgrades for you computer, definately don't base your upgrades on this game. If you want to upgrade you system, look to games that have already been released, properly optimized and use sites that have benchmarks tested by profressionals such as guru3d.com.
This game has EQ2 and Vanguard written all over it. It seems to be a poorly optimized engine and the I bet the devs will keep telling us that "it is built for computers of the future!" for the next 4 years. Maybe they based the engine on computers using 4 terabytes of ram, or octo-cores that each run at 4ghz..
At any rate, this game is going to be the biggest dissapointment since... probably Age of Conan or Vanguard.
Good luck, I hope it turns out good. If it works out well, I'll check it out 6 months after lauch. This game is definately not a pre-order game, or even a buy at launch game for me.
The benchmark is not accurate. At all.
As with many benchmarks, they are mostly a cash grab made in collaberation with the game maker and GPU supporter (in this case, SE and nvidia) for the sole purpose of scaring people to upgrade (and they usually upgrade the GPU.) The benchmarks aren't optimized or have every feature set to high or close to it. If anyone remembers the first benchmark for FFXI, it gave horrible scores randomly, and the same people with the terrible scores ran the game on default settings fine (except in Jeuno during peak hours.)
Should also touch upon your personal experience of the beta and stability. You're playing the beta. Beta clients almost always have behind-the-scenes software running alongside the game to help the developers further enhance performance and squash bugs easier. A good example of this occured with Age of Conan. The client was very laggy during beta for many players, and even into launch because they kept the debugging feature enabled. After they turned it off a few days into launch, many people were able to run the game normally. (Aside from those suffering the memory leak issues.)
The game is still in beta and final optomizations are not in place yet (and the beta is definately running debugging software along with it.) Wait until release to figure out if you need to upgrade, unless you are below or right on the required specs listed by SE on their site.
I could almost cut/paste what you are saying from a Vanguard post in January 2007.
When will people learn?
The beta is not bogged down by background software... It is not going to drastically improve in less than 2 months time. Using Age of Conan as some kind of standard for positive launches is not very rational either.
Whatever optimizations they think they can pull off, the picture looks very bleak to me.
We should all expect and demand that the games we pay our hard earned money for are quality and not poorly optimized, half-assed ,box sale money grabs.
You're negative about every aspect of the game. Find another forum of a game you actually like because obviously that's going to be your only thought here and we get it, thanks for your input.
don't tell me what to do. you're welcome
I didn't use Vanguard for a reason and instead used Age of Conan. I never said AoC had a positive launch -- at all. I only used one of the problems AoC was suffering as an example, as it served its purpose. You also need to remember that Square-Enix has more money than these other MMO companies; they're able to hold off their game and release it when its ready/mostly optimized.
I'm sorry the picture looks bleak for you. However, until you can say, "I told you so," I would sit and wait to see what happens at launch and a week or so after. If that's too much for you, I do suggest you find another game to occupy your time.
Really all I can say. If you want to upgrade your PC (and have the spare cash to do it), then go ahead. However, if you're flailing about, worried you won't be able to play, wait and see what happens at launch. I'm quite sure you'll be fine.
Sit here and flame and hate then. You know, instead of focusing on something you might actually enjoy, just be an ass to people about an unfinished game still working through development and changes.
http://www.gpubench.com/gpubench/index.cfm/graphics-card-and-gpu-blog/ffxiv-benchmark-performance-calculator/
That is a tool for your GPU selection. You can put in your FFXIV Benchmark Score and GPU and it will give you a good estimate of what you would get with a different GPU.
You do realize that a 32 bits system only can handle 4 gb and that is included the GFX memory?
Sorry but I think you'll need a new machine for FF XIV anyways. The processor is to slow and it would take water cooling to get it up to the 3ghz or so which is what you needed from what I heard (and from the not 100% reliable benchtest).
Of course a Corsair H50 liquid cooling system would do it, it cost something like 80 bucks but it is kinda hard work to change it, took me half an hour and I work a lot with computers. And overclocking is risky if you don't know what you are doing, even people who does mess up at times.
Then you probably have DDR 1 or 2 memories, 2 is ok but one is far to slow. 3 is to prefer.
And the GFX card is hopelessly outdated, it was crappy already when it was new, my traveling laptop laughs at it.
My advice: Check if the motherboard can handle a better processor. Otherwise get a new processor, new MB, new memory and new GDX card. Also check how much the PSU (Power supply unit) can take. And change to Windows 7 64 bits.
As for GFX card I would get a Nvidia 470 or a ATI 5850 for performance and price, depending on which you prefer. The 460 and 5830 are a bit low for this game, it is worse than AoC at launch for how good stuff you'll need.
New cpu is now in. benchmark on hi res setting now rates at 2458.
so i did in fact get a boost from the cpu. So thats a relief, one small step down. Gotta start somewhere after all
Waiting For: FF14,Guild Wars2
RIP: Tabula Rasa&Hellgate:London(online)
Playing:Fallen Earth&Guild Wars& Dragon Age
Congrats, I guess is the best word to use here =P
2500 is around where you should top out at without overclocking and the like. I get a 2200~ with one of my 4870's disabled in the benchmark, and I have the exact same processor. You probably have low-ish speeds ddr2 like me as well. I'm running my processor at 3.4ghz and each of my 4870's slightly overclocked too, the asus one more than the XFX one as it seems to run a lot hotter. Not something you should do willy nilly but all parts like these are pretty much made to be tweaked with a bit.
i didnt read through all the posts but i was running a AMD x2 2.90 CPu and it got about 15 frames (frames are capped at 30) FYI. im running a 9800GTX+ in my computer i replaced the x2 CPU and now have a AMD x4 3.4 and i now run this game at max settings running 30FPS so dont replace your GPU replace your CPU
Oi didnt see that till after post you should be fine in the beta now trust me i got like 1300 i think or was it 1800 >_> well anyways i run the game at max besides in heavy traffic towns so dont worry your fine the BM is retarded
Is that Athlon or Phenom and which socket AM 3 or 2+? I've never put together a AMD they have all been intel over the years. I'm putting together a PC for my cousin so he can play 14 and I decided to go AMD route since it will be cheaper for him. I haven't decided either to go with Athlon II x4 or Phenom II x2.