Its hard for me to fathom what kind of person believes this is acceptable. These are basic mechanics that have been in games for years, infact very few games do not have them let alone those that call themselves next gen. Your shameless attitude about discluding people for the fact that they jump is a peer into your persona.
Thats fine if you choose to live in a world where your abilities are limited, by your post I can clearly see your thought process is on point with that. I do believe that you are one of the negative forces that to blame for mmo's kind of de evolving. I never planned on playing FF because I always thought it was kind of feminine, and not sexy feminine, like 8 year old feminine, so hey no loss over here.
Here's the other side of the story.
I've played the next gen mmo's you speak of. Some I loved (LOTRO) and some were worthless (Warhammer). What you consider to be "standard" mmo features have been tainted by your experiences because all the mmo's that hve been released in the last 3-4 years have been WOW clones.
They have become "standard" because they wanted to share WoW's success. Here's the flipside. In my 2.5 years of playing FFXI (mind you, I left for other reasons, not because I found something else), I NEVER EVER said to myself... "man, I wish I could jump/swim."
The world was designed in a way where I was completely immersed and loved what it had to offer. Jumping and swiming did not matter, AT ALL.
The only reason it's important to you is because every other mmo has it.... Do yourself a favor, if you and others have such a mental block when it comes to swimming and jumping, then don't play FFXIV. I really believe you won't enjoy it. Your preconceived notions are set in stone and no amount of convincing/or playing for that matter will persuade you otherwise.
I'm not condemning you or saying what you believe is wrong. FAR FROM IT. But you should also accept that not having jumping or swiming in a game is JUST AS ACCEPTABLE. Not all games are designed for everyone. Some games cater to one over the other. If you prefer jumping and swinging and they have to be in an mmo, then every single other mmo that is coming out will have it. Leave FFXIV to those of us that want ONE mmo that doesn't have it, and doesn't need to have it.
I dont consider the games mentioned as next gen. Nor do I consider FFXIV next gen.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
The point is its just rediculous in a game nowadays for you not to be able to jump or swim.Its about immersion. Whether it has any purpose or not, it feels nice when you have full control of your character. And how does it kill immersion? Are you serious? Hmm i wonder how being rooted to the ground 24/7 and running smack into an invisible wall whenever you hit water could kill immersion...
no final fantasy game has swiming or jumping get that threw your head the ff mmos are Fianl fantasy games FIRST and MMOS second.
if you dont like it go play all the other mmos that let you jump like a damn monkey. in ffxi your eally didnt hit a wall you could stillw lak in the water that you could get to but must water was below where you could wlak so you just get stuck on the edges instead.
like this i guess 7--- top of the 7 is the ground the middle is the water
in the dunes there was a way to get itnot he water and go around the cliff tot he other side while you was under water
Hehe, it looks like people are grasping at more useless crap to complain about today. I am gald we won't have the jumping goons in the game. As far as swimming goes, meh it's a minor perk at best. If the game play and design don't call for swimming then you really need to just move on to another game. I appreciate the concerns, but it's not gonna make a lick of difference with the SE folks. Down the road if they implement something, then super. For now, it is hardly the most important concern. Solid environment, leveling, and growth experiences are much higher on the importance level.
Side note, if you are really needing swimming in a game to have "immersion" then you might be disappointed with many games in the MMO genre.
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~V
Its hard for me to fathom what kind of person believes this is acceptable. These are basic mechanics that have been in games for years, infact very few games do not have them let alone those that call themselves next gen. Your shameless attitude about discluding people for the fact that they jump is a peer into your persona.
Thats fine if you choose to live in a world where your abilities are limited, by your post I can clearly see your thought process is on point with that. I do believe that you are one of the negative forces that to blame for mmo's kind of de evolving. I never planned on playing FF because I always thought it was kind of feminine, and not sexy feminine, like 8 year old feminine, so hey no loss over here.
If you can't fathom the type of person that finds a point of view in contrast to your own then you must talk to a lot of walls. It's acceptable to many that support this game, but it's completely in your right to disagree with an issue. Freedom is a good thing, but I do ask that you realize that the standards are only made when people expect them. You are very fast to quick lip and attack those that differ from your opinions, I feel for you. The world of forums can be a painful place for parties that can't understand a difference of opinion. I wish you the best and hopefully, someday, a clear sense of mind to approach things without an accusatory tone.
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~V
I love you whole "I feel for you" comment. I am not narrow minded and I can accept others rational opinons. Its fine that you like the game, I could care less, you really have no place on this thread. You have no argument other than you like the game.
How do you "design" a game where you dont need to jump?
How do you have a race of creatures whose lore is centralized around water, but you have no content in the water, let alone swimming?
Its fine that you like FF but this is not about your history associated with the game, this is about SE's laziness and inability to deliver on a next gen product.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
but c'mon how can anyone justify their lack of jumping and swimming?
Fanboys attempt to isolate groups of people and turn it into divisive style speech much like politicians, saying that they are annoyed by people jumping around, or an even better 1/2 as argument is the whole "they didnt even design content for it so its not necessary"
the truth is SE is lazy and just wants your money and you fanboys are obviously suckers. You probably still believe all the crap George Bush said.
Money talks, and to all the actual gamers out there I suggest you hold onto your money when it comes to FFXIV, otherwise you will be sending a message that developers and publishers can release a half ass game and still make money
the haters just comes up with post like yours. So what are you getting it? lol dont be callign th fanboy suckers . cause if thats the case people like you are not wanted
Im not a fanboy hater, Im just calling it as it is.
Its funny you say Im not wanted but you have no control over who plays that stupid game anyways.
This post is about not being able to swim. If you think its okay for a company to release a game with invisible walls and still call it next gen, thats fine, you are entitled to YOUR opinion, but the truth is FFXIV will never be considered next gen from actual logical thinking people. Any game that boasts a huge world that has invisible barriers or tiny little fences that keep the world strongest warrior from going where they choose is not next gen. You can defend it all you like, but you wind up looking like a fool.
I never intended on playing the game, and I will let you have last word because, hey its your game, but please do not degrade the definition of next gen by attempting to include this piss poor example of game design in that category.
you never intended to play ffxiv then why are you bitchign thats theres no swiming and or jumping callin the fanboys suckers and se lazy then?
likewise, why do you feel it is your responsibility to defend the companies decision to not include the mechanics in the game?
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
likewise, why do you feel it is your responsibility to defend the companies decision to not include the mechanics in the game?
Because I don't care for the "mechanics" that YOU feel are "essential" and "mandatory?" You're couching your subjective opinion by bringing in other games.
I loved FFXI. FFXI was more of a success than most other MMOs. It didn't have jumping or swiming. It did fine.
FFXIV isn't a game you're going to enjoy. Move on.
Its really sad that players expect this now a days. A lot of the comments make it seem like jumping and swimming make or break a game for them and that's really sad. Its funny my first mmo was a mud (and at the time muds were 2 decades past their prime) but even in a text based environment like that it wasn't that difficult to find emersion. to hear that jumping will be the deal breaker just goes to show what players are like now. As long as its easy looks pretty, and isn't outside your comfort zone you'll take. For a lot of you WoW has just spoiled you as players to the point that lets face it your not even really gamers. Any good gamer looking at an mmo usually looks at combat, environment, content, min system specs and works from there. Jumping and swimming don't usually account for much in the major issues assessment. Am I saying jumping and swimming are pointless? No I am not if the developers put them in great but in the long run it wont make a big difference if the game gets an A+ or an A-. However in the long run its your money if jumping/swimming breaks the game for you that's too bad but why would any1 want to play with some1 that would focus on that?
Has any of u ever tried swimming in a full body armor with a massive weapon (sword polearm etc) in your hands??
No u didn't?? well guess u all know why not don't u.....
So why adding swimming in a game where u wear an armor and weapon all the time (and have even more stuff in your inventory) lets be honest u want swimming so u can shortcut some travel times but like i just pointed out to do so u kinda would have to leave most of your belongings behind and that u don't want now do u?
I think some people are missing the point. I've read several posts that all point out that "jumping has no point in this game" and "Swimming has no point/why do you need to swim?" the point is you don't "need" to, people want to. Some people like spending 30 minutes swimming out into the open ocean and back, some people like being able to jump over small hills. Not having jumping or swimming in game is a bad design choice no matter their reasoning. It's two basic ways people move, it should be mandatory in all games to at least be able to swim and jump. And for the whole "can you swim IN REAL LIFE!!! WITH FULL ARMOR AND A POLEARM!!!" crowd, guess what, you've never killed a monster IRL either nor have you met any cat girls (maybe?) IRL so that's simply not a valid argument.
And I don't get this "if you don't like something go play something else" mentality amongst fans of a game. I'm a fan and i'd NEVER say that, i want people to play, lots of people, to keep the game healthy and fresh, and give them reason to support it. Because the bottom line is, since FFXI came out the MMO scene has changed drastically, people's expectations have grown, and they expect more. You just can't just stick to the "same ole same ole" and hope it works and hope people move to it. Some will, but who says they won't be perfectly content with FFXI and not move? So why not try to, as the director of the game has said numerous times "Expand the audience"? You won't do that by removing features people will expect to be in the game even if its useless. You won't do that by telling people "Well this is how we made the game, deal with it", cause they will deal with it and go play another game, leaving this one high and dry. That's a quick way to get your game to end up like Age of Conan. Sold a million boxes, and now has barely 70k subs if that? Conan had horrible walls when it launched, you had some tiny hills you couldn't jump or walk over, or swim around. Putting walls in a game and ways to stop people from exploring even if your game ISNT (and i firmly believe all MMOS are designed with some aspect of exploration in them because of the nature of being MMOS) designed to be exploration based will only frustrate players and give them more reasons to complain.
I want this game to be a huge success because I feel like SquareEnix are trying to make a game which you can be as hardcore *cough* FFXI players *cough* as you want, or as casual *cough* WoW*cough* as you want and from what i've played, they are off to a very good start with three steps forward in story, visuals, and the combat/class system, but they definitely took two steps backwards with the no jumping/swimming thing. It makes the game feel dated before it even launched.
Has any of u ever tried swimming in a full body armor with a massive weapon (sword polearm etc) in your hands??
No u didn't?? well guess u all know why not don't u.....
So why adding swimming in a game where u wear an armor and weapon all the time (and have even more stuff in your inventory) lets be honest u want swimming so u can shortcut some travel times but like i just pointed out to do so u kinda would have to leave most of your belongings behind and that u don't want now do u?
Which means if I remove my armor and weapon and things from my inventory, I'll be able to swim right?
Exactly u would leave all your armor and weapons on land while u take a swim waiting to be looted by the first person to come along lol
Sure u can add swimming if u want to but since it wouldn't have any use whats however not even to shortcut your way why bother??
If u wanna swim just for the fun of swimming maybe try a SIMS game and watch your character swim all day that might be kinda stupid tho but like u pointed out Stupid people r stupid so maybe that's exactly your thing.
If it comes between me having a great story and me having the ability to jump/swim, I will take the story every time, why waste the time on a mechanic that brings little to the game? Perhaps to those that want it, it will bring something but to others it will be a useless feature that they dont want or need. I dont see where the Next Gen argument comes in at all, there is no such thing as a next gen MMO, there is only new mmo's. When I can interact in a world that I can touch, feel, see with my own two eyes then I will concider it something of next gen. Even with this whole next gen thing you speak of it is still being played in the same PC you have been playing on for the last 15 years, have the graphics gotten better? has the way they tell the story evolved? has the combat mechanics of the game changed? These are the essential things in an MMO I look for, while the companies keep on using the "This is our latest next gen MMO" all they are doing is shooting themselves in the foot, you are still making for a PC or console in the case of FFXIV. EQ, WoW, EQ2, DAOC, AOC and every single other MMO has been made for a PC with some that went console so there is no "Next Gen" to it at all.
So you are correct I do not see FFXIV as a next gen or TERA, or RIFT's, or GW2 as a "Next Gen" MMO because they are still being made in a PC and you are still using that same mouse and keyboard that has been out for oh about 50 years or so. Now give me something that I use all my senses to experience then you can call it next gen.
If I were to make a list of important design features for a game I wouldn't have this is the top 100.
Why can't I climb every tree?
Why can't I move every object?
Why can't I pick up every item?
Why can't I loot every itemfrom Mobs and why do they carry gold?
Are these game breakers? NO!
Should every game have the same features? NO
Did I jump today as I went about my daily journey? NO - Not once.
Enough already.
Naw, its just not like that for me. I have played a lot of games, and its as easy as it just doesn't feel right or, I don't like the combat animations, AoC is a great example, I dislike the jump in that game and the combat animations, and it just ruins it for me, I don't need logic to prove I'm right.
I think some people are missing the point. I've read several posts that all point out that "jumping has no point in this game" and "Swimming has no point/why do you need to swim?" the point is you don't "need" to, people want to. Some people like spending 30 minutes swimming out into the open ocean and back, some people like being able to jump over small hills. Not having jumping or swimming in game is a bad design choice no matter their reasoning. It's two basic ways people move, it should be mandatory in all games to at least be able to swim and jump. And for the whole "can you swim IN REAL LIFE!!! WITH FULL ARMOR AND A POLEARM!!!" crowd, guess what, you've never killed a monster IRL either nor have you met any cat girls (maybe?) IRL so that's simply not a valid argument.
And I don't get this "if you don't like something go play something else" mentality amongst fans of a game. I'm a fan and i'd NEVER say that, i want people to play, lots of people, to keep the game healthy and fresh, and give them reason to support it. Because the bottom line is, since FFXI came out the MMO scene has changed drastically, people's expectations have grown, and they expect more. You just can't just stick to the "same ole same ole" and hope it works and hope people move to it. Some will, but who says they won't be perfectly content with FFXI and not move? So why not try to, as the director of the game has said numerous times "Expand the audience"? You won't do that by removing features people will expect to be in the game even if its useless. You won't do that by telling people "Well this is how we made the game, deal with it", cause they will deal with it and go play another game, leaving this one high and dry. That's a quick way to get your game to end up like Age of Conan. Sold a million boxes, and now has barely 70k subs if that? Conan had horrible walls when it launched, you had some tiny hills you couldn't jump or walk over, or swim around. Putting walls in a game and ways to stop people from exploring even if your game ISNT (and i firmly believe all MMOS are designed with some aspect of exploration in them because of the nature of being MMOS) designed to be exploration based will only frustrate players and give them more reasons to complain.
I want this game to be a huge success because I feel like SquareEnix are trying to make a game which you can be as hardcore *cough* FFXI players *cough* as you want, or as casual *cough* WoW*cough* as you want and from what i've played, they are off to a very good start with three steps forward in story, visuals, and the combat/class system, but they definitely took two steps backwards with the no jumping/swimming thing. It makes the game feel dated before it even launched.
Ok but here is the thing this game doesn't have to beat WoW or any other franchise ask an old school WoW player what the game was like before it got this popular and you'd understand the game changed drastically to accommodate so many different playstyles that they alienated many of the original players. What does this have to do with the topic? Not a thing but you mentioned it. Some of what you say is true yes lots of games have jumping yes its somewhat standard and yes most developers would place it pseudo high on the list. However the argument a lot of people are saying but its not getting heard is who cares?
Seriously its not that important SE knows their fanbase and know we don't really give a sh*t about jumping years without it means we really don't care if its there or not and the same with swimming if they choose to add it great if they don't we don't really care. Now your age of conan was lol you and I both know it was the demanding specs that ruined that game and nothing else. Lots of games have been built with swimming and jumping and everything else you can think of and fail (see reference Aion).
The whole thing for most of us is that if we see no big mess over swimming and jumping we know that they have their minds right. As for innovations in the mmo industry YOU CAN PLAY A PROFESSION AS A CLASS WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED?? Last week we were discussing the combat system and now we got folks scared senseless that their will be no jumping/swimming come get your heads out the gutter cause honestly and I mean this truly IF YOUR WORRIED ABOUT THIS THEN THIS GAME MIGHT NOT BE FOR YOU please consider that before you say anything else.
if immersion = imagining oneself in the world of the game, then how does not being able to swim in a suit of armor ruin immersion? the complaint shdnt be "why can't you swim" it shd be "why cant you drown"
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Same exact point I brought up, why can't you drown or break a leg when you jump down from a high cliff instead of just losing some HP. If you want immersion this should be in it, you can't just want something in it when there are no repercusions, those games that implement the jump/swim mechanic and they actually use it well thats great, this game does not end of story.
Same exact point I brought up, why can't you drown or break a leg when you jump down from a high cliff instead of just losing some HP. If you want immersion this should be in it, you can't just want something in it when there are no repercusions, those games that implement the jump/swim mechanic and they actually use it well thats great, this game does not end of story.
So swimming in WoW and other games is bad? Seriously this is your argument? Wow....
There can be lots of reasons that you could swim in armor in a game where magic exists and mortals are as powerful as gods.
I can't believe the logic fail... it's making my eyes bleed.
likewise, why do you feel it is your responsibility to defend the companies decision to not include the mechanics in the game?
Because I don't care for the "mechanics" that YOU feel are "essential" and "mandatory?" You're couching your subjective opinion by bringing in other games.
I loved FFXI. FFXI was more of a success than most other MMOs. It didn't have jumping or swiming. It did fine.
FFXIV isn't a game you're going to enjoy. Move on.
I think your attitude is pretty sad.
Its one thing to not jump or swim, its another to attack ME because I believe it should be in game..
I dont really care about the game. I do care about the genre and you would think you people would too.
Jumping and swimming are so irrelevant in your eyes, why do you people insist on coming in hordes to attack me?
I think you are little anti social freaks and you try to create a division so as you can own your little sliver of the world rather than share it with the masses.
Once again this thread is about swimming and I cannot understand why you feel it necessary to exclude me from playing the game.
If swimming does not matter to you, then why even post?
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
Nope you are wrong in saying that it makes a game bad, never said that, what I argue is what some people are saying about how it ruins it for them and then say that it is because of immersion or something else like if it was real life.
And if you have read any of my other post on this thread you would know that I played WoW and I totally enjoyed the features there, I loved the swimming because it served a purspose, and the jumping as well because it served a purpose. But all they would need to do would chance a few things and get rid of jumping and swimming in the game and it would make no diffenrence at all, if I could get to where I needed to go then not having jumping or swimming I be fine with it as well. But this is not [insert game here] so it will not play the same, and while you argue about it in 2 months when the game comes out, I will be logging in and enjoying it I hope (you never know might get delayed cause server's broke and all).
I think some people are missing the point. I've read several posts that all point out that "jumping has no point in this game" and "Swimming has no point/why do you need to swim?" the point is you don't "need" to, people want to. Some people like spending 30 minutes swimming out into the open ocean and back, some people like being able to jump over small hills. Not having jumping or swimming in game is a bad design choice no matter their reasoning. It's two basic ways people move, it should be mandatory in all games to at least be able to swim and jump. And for the whole "can you swim IN REAL LIFE!!! WITH FULL ARMOR AND A POLEARM!!!" crowd, guess what, you've never killed a monster IRL either nor have you met any cat girls (maybe?) IRL so that's simply not a valid argument.
And I don't get this "if you don't like something go play something else" mentality amongst fans of a game. I'm a fan and i'd NEVER say that, i want people to play, lots of people, to keep the game healthy and fresh, and give them reason to support it. Because the bottom line is, since FFXI came out the MMO scene has changed drastically, people's expectations have grown, and they expect more. You just can't just stick to the "same ole same ole" and hope it works and hope people move to it. Some will, but who says they won't be perfectly content with FFXI and not move? So why not try to, as the director of the game has said numerous times "Expand the audience"? You won't do that by removing features people will expect to be in the game even if its useless. You won't do that by telling people "Well this is how we made the game, deal with it", cause they will deal with it and go play another game, leaving this one high and dry. That's a quick way to get your game to end up like Age of Conan. Sold a million boxes, and now has barely 70k subs if that? Conan had horrible walls when it launched, you had some tiny hills you couldn't jump or walk over, or swim around. Putting walls in a game and ways to stop people from exploring even if your game ISNT (and i firmly believe all MMOS are designed with some aspect of exploration in them because of the nature of being MMOS) designed to be exploration based will only frustrate players and give them more reasons to complain.
I want this game to be a huge success because I feel like SquareEnix are trying to make a game which you can be as hardcore *cough* FFXI players *cough* as you want, or as casual *cough* WoW*cough* as you want and from what i've played, they are off to a very good start with three steps forward in story, visuals, and the combat/class system, but they definitely took two steps backwards with the no jumping/swimming thing. It makes the game feel dated before it even launched.
Bingo. Finally someone gets what I'm saying here. You got all those other yearly AAA MMOs tittles coming out. Just about every new one gets criticized for being a step behind in many ways and prasied for being step forwards some ways. Now depending how much of a step forward the game is for the genre will determine the kind of success the game will get. Now lets go back here. It goes - EQ, FF11, WoW, GW, LotR, EQ2, AoC, War, Aion, and more. They All have jump. They all give you reasons to use jump from time to time. Sure you can spam spacebar and make it look useless, or you can use it by actually jumping over something to get somewhere else. Now most of those games had swimming too. MMORPGS have been about exploring okay. The devs give you the zones, you explore them. Now heres FF14 - the devs give you the zones, but you can only explore some of it becuase of boundaries that we're placing in the game becuase.... becuase... well IDK why okay quit asking me why we're putting boundaires. See what I mean here. Exploration on land or water and sometimes even the air has been possible in all of these MMOs to date! It's like companies making their yearly AAA FPS games that all atleast have some form of multiplayer attached to them. But one company decided not to impliment (and possibly improve upon) the standard feature (that is typically expected of FPS fans to be present in some form in every new release) then their FPS may not be succesfful and will be critized for being behind the times or steps back in some ways regardless of any step forward with graphics.
Now look at SE's last major realease..... FF13... Yes the graphics were amped up, but it was being criticised alot for being steps back in some ways. Look at review scores for the game. FF13 has some of the lowest scores in the series (not saying the scores are terribly low, just lower than the previous titles). This is mostly becuase the devs decided to make a huge chunk of the game linear in design. Not just the exploration but other features felt linear as well. They said it was their design choice and look at how it it's been criticised post launch.... Their excuse for this was to focus on story. Now if the story was any better than it is then I woulda justified this design choice more but FF13 has some bad characters/storytelling. More so than previous entries so all that linearity made it worse.
Now look at Bungie. They're making their latest Halo game in the series. And it looks to be a step forward in just about every way. You guys know that this game will probably get the higest rating in the series as well as being successful. Why of why did the devs at Bungie decide to improve on the features and standard designs of the previous titles and FPSs in general. Why didn't they just only improve on some of it and just leave things like the boundaires or the limitations of the Forge mode in. Forge was Halo 3's map editor and it restricting in many ways. Bungie decided to say "why not" and took away these restrictions with Halo Reach's new Forge feature. AKA good design choice. So lets say they decided to leave it in its restrictive state (ala jumping/swimming FF11 - FF14) and release the game with the same old Forge... Bad design choice. Would it be criticised? Yes. Players and critics will see that Bungie didn't take steps to improv on the restrictive mode and they will be disappointed. Of the entire game? No, since other aspects would be improved like graphics but they would still criticize that feature. Believe me it is the same with every new sequel. FF14 will launch and many people will enjoy some of the newer things, but will see that SE didn't improv upon those outdated standard designs (those boundaires ive been talking about) just as every player of any previous AAA MMO title has done once they come out, people play them, and notice new things while also noticing the limiting features or out dated designs that were not improved upon and THEY ALWAYS have to end up working on the features with new patches! Do I really have to bring up examples here???? As soon as Aion launched and players couldnt go further than 10ft in those tons of bodies of water, it felt limiting and some players complained. The devs went like "oh, so they want to be able to go pass those invisible walls to explore the waters as well as everything else" so they got back to work on it.
In the end, we will see how it goes. Maybe by some odd chance, no one will compain about the boundaries SE is putting in its own game. And itll never get implimented. Sure it never got implimented in FF11, but that was way back then where alot of other MMOs during that time had the same restrictions( less character control). It's 2010 and just about every new AAA atleast has these standard features in some form (and improved upon in some cases) and the devs for upcoming AAA MMOs aren't blind. They see the demand for these standard features and are working on them/making them better before launch instead ditching them until the point where players are going to end up asking for them anyway. Those games will come out and will be praised for these steps ahead.
If swimming does not matter to you, then why even post?
Because it diverts money and resources to developing a mechanic that adds nothing to the game.
FFXIV is what it is. It does not have jumping or swiming two months from release. It will not have jumping or swiming for the foreseeable future.
If they ever add jumping or swiming, it wont' be for years down the line. If that's what are after, you will have to wait a long time.
Long story short, people who want jumping or swiming in FFXIV are like the "old man yelling at clouds" scenario from the Simpsons.
Complain all you want.... SE made the decision a long time ago. The FFXIV producer even laughed during one of the interviews when asked the question on "jumping."
I think he has the perfect response to these types of questions.
If swimming does not matter to you, then why even post?
Because it diverts money and resources to developing a mechanic that adds nothing to the game.
FFXIV is what it is. It does not have jumping or swiming two months from release. It will not have jumping or swiming for the foreseeable future.
If they ever add jumping or swiming, it wont' be for years down the line. If that's what are after, you will have to wait a long time.
Long story short, people who want jumping or swiming in FFXIV are like the "old man yelling at clouds" scenario from the Simpsons.
Complain all you want.... SE made the decision a long time ago. The FFXIV producer even laughed during one of the interviews when asked the question on "jumping."
I think he has the perfect response to these types of questions.
Well that doesn't give any true reason other than you are siding with the company rather than your fellow players.
Keep supporting companies that refuse to push the experience forward. Its your money, but I still think your a sucker, and one of two things will happen.
FFXI will die from all their subs going to XIV, or the XI people will not like XIV and stay with XI because by dividing the gamers and putting invisible walls up, is not going to expand they're player base.
So you can stick to your simple minded argument but I believe that simple decision will cost SE dearly. Well see in a year.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
I am on the side that likes to be able to jump and swim as it adds a bit more life to the game, at least to me it does. If i see a river or log on the ground I would rather swim through it or jump over it rather than walk around. Makes the world seem more real as those are both things we can do in reality.
Now I can see the reality of not being able to jump or swim as well if wearing heavy plate armor. obviously the armor will weigh a person down keeping them from easily jumping, and will cause them to sink like a rock if trying to swim. The freedom of being able to jump and swim in a game world just makes things feel more, well free and less artificially restricted though.
Comments
I dont consider the games mentioned as next gen. Nor do I consider FFXIV next gen.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
I love you whole "I feel for you" comment. I am not narrow minded and I can accept others rational opinons. Its fine that you like the game, I could care less, you really have no place on this thread. You have no argument other than you like the game.
How do you "design" a game where you dont need to jump?
How do you have a race of creatures whose lore is centralized around water, but you have no content in the water, let alone swimming?
Its fine that you like FF but this is not about your history associated with the game, this is about SE's laziness and inability to deliver on a next gen product.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
you would try to get someone banned. Your the one attacking me telling me Im not wanted, telling me I ruin the game. you are the sucker, not me.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
likewise, why do you feel it is your responsibility to defend the companies decision to not include the mechanics in the game?
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
Because I don't care for the "mechanics" that YOU feel are "essential" and "mandatory?" You're couching your subjective opinion by bringing in other games.
I loved FFXI. FFXI was more of a success than most other MMOs. It didn't have jumping or swiming. It did fine.
FFXIV isn't a game you're going to enjoy. Move on.
Its really sad that players expect this now a days. A lot of the comments make it seem like jumping and swimming make or break a game for them and that's really sad. Its funny my first mmo was a mud (and at the time muds were 2 decades past their prime) but even in a text based environment like that it wasn't that difficult to find emersion. to hear that jumping will be the deal breaker just goes to show what players are like now. As long as its easy looks pretty, and isn't outside your comfort zone you'll take. For a lot of you WoW has just spoiled you as players to the point that lets face it your not even really gamers. Any good gamer looking at an mmo usually looks at combat, environment, content, min system specs and works from there. Jumping and swimming don't usually account for much in the major issues assessment. Am I saying jumping and swimming are pointless? No I am not if the developers put them in great but in the long run it wont make a big difference if the game gets an A+ or an A-. However in the long run its your money if jumping/swimming breaks the game for you that's too bad but why would any1 want to play with some1 that would focus on that?
I think not adding swimming is the way to go!!!
I say that for an easy reason....
Has any of u ever tried swimming in a full body armor with a massive weapon (sword polearm etc) in your hands??
No u didn't?? well guess u all know why not don't u.....
So why adding swimming in a game where u wear an armor and weapon all the time (and have even more stuff in your inventory) lets be honest u want swimming so u can shortcut some travel times but like i just pointed out to do so u kinda would have to leave most of your belongings behind and that u don't want now do u?
I think some people are missing the point. I've read several posts that all point out that "jumping has no point in this game" and "Swimming has no point/why do you need to swim?" the point is you don't "need" to, people want to. Some people like spending 30 minutes swimming out into the open ocean and back, some people like being able to jump over small hills. Not having jumping or swimming in game is a bad design choice no matter their reasoning. It's two basic ways people move, it should be mandatory in all games to at least be able to swim and jump. And for the whole "can you swim IN REAL LIFE!!! WITH FULL ARMOR AND A POLEARM!!!" crowd, guess what, you've never killed a monster IRL either nor have you met any cat girls (maybe?) IRL so that's simply not a valid argument.
And I don't get this "if you don't like something go play something else" mentality amongst fans of a game. I'm a fan and i'd NEVER say that, i want people to play, lots of people, to keep the game healthy and fresh, and give them reason to support it. Because the bottom line is, since FFXI came out the MMO scene has changed drastically, people's expectations have grown, and they expect more. You just can't just stick to the "same ole same ole" and hope it works and hope people move to it. Some will, but who says they won't be perfectly content with FFXI and not move? So why not try to, as the director of the game has said numerous times "Expand the audience"? You won't do that by removing features people will expect to be in the game even if its useless. You won't do that by telling people "Well this is how we made the game, deal with it", cause they will deal with it and go play another game, leaving this one high and dry. That's a quick way to get your game to end up like Age of Conan. Sold a million boxes, and now has barely 70k subs if that? Conan had horrible walls when it launched, you had some tiny hills you couldn't jump or walk over, or swim around. Putting walls in a game and ways to stop people from exploring even if your game ISNT (and i firmly believe all MMOS are designed with some aspect of exploration in them because of the nature of being MMOS) designed to be exploration based will only frustrate players and give them more reasons to complain.
I want this game to be a huge success because I feel like SquareEnix are trying to make a game which you can be as hardcore *cough* FFXI players *cough* as you want, or as casual *cough* WoW*cough* as you want and from what i've played, they are off to a very good start with three steps forward in story, visuals, and the combat/class system, but they definitely took two steps backwards with the no jumping/swimming thing. It makes the game feel dated before it even launched.
Which means if I remove my armor and weapon and things from my inventory, I'll be able to swim right?
PS: Stupid people are stupid.
Exactly u would leave all your armor and weapons on land while u take a swim waiting to be looted by the first person to come along lol
Sure u can add swimming if u want to but since it wouldn't have any use whats however not even to shortcut your way why bother??
If u wanna swim just for the fun of swimming maybe try a SIMS game and watch your character swim all day that might be kinda stupid tho but like u pointed out Stupid people r stupid so maybe that's exactly your thing.
If it comes between me having a great story and me having the ability to jump/swim, I will take the story every time, why waste the time on a mechanic that brings little to the game? Perhaps to those that want it, it will bring something but to others it will be a useless feature that they dont want or need. I dont see where the Next Gen argument comes in at all, there is no such thing as a next gen MMO, there is only new mmo's. When I can interact in a world that I can touch, feel, see with my own two eyes then I will concider it something of next gen. Even with this whole next gen thing you speak of it is still being played in the same PC you have been playing on for the last 15 years, have the graphics gotten better? has the way they tell the story evolved? has the combat mechanics of the game changed? These are the essential things in an MMO I look for, while the companies keep on using the "This is our latest next gen MMO" all they are doing is shooting themselves in the foot, you are still making for a PC or console in the case of FFXIV. EQ, WoW, EQ2, DAOC, AOC and every single other MMO has been made for a PC with some that went console so there is no "Next Gen" to it at all.
So you are correct I do not see FFXIV as a next gen or TERA, or RIFT's, or GW2 as a "Next Gen" MMO because they are still being made in a PC and you are still using that same mouse and keyboard that has been out for oh about 50 years or so. Now give me something that I use all my senses to experience then you can call it next gen.
This issue is not important.
If I were to make a list of important design features for a game I wouldn't have this is the top 100.
Why can't I climb every tree?
Why can't I move every object?
Why can't I pick up every item?
Why can't I loot every itemfrom Mobs and why do they carry gold?
Are these game breakers? NO!
Should every game have the same features? NO
Did I jump today as I went about my daily journey? NO - Not once.
Enough already.
Naw, its just not like that for me. I have played a lot of games, and its as easy as it just doesn't feel right or, I don't like the combat animations, AoC is a great example, I dislike the jump in that game and the combat animations, and it just ruins it for me, I don't need logic to prove I'm right.
Ok but here is the thing this game doesn't have to beat WoW or any other franchise ask an old school WoW player what the game was like before it got this popular and you'd understand the game changed drastically to accommodate so many different playstyles that they alienated many of the original players. What does this have to do with the topic? Not a thing but you mentioned it. Some of what you say is true yes lots of games have jumping yes its somewhat standard and yes most developers would place it pseudo high on the list. However the argument a lot of people are saying but its not getting heard is who cares?
Seriously its not that important SE knows their fanbase and know we don't really give a sh*t about jumping years without it means we really don't care if its there or not and the same with swimming if they choose to add it great if they don't we don't really care. Now your age of conan was lol you and I both know it was the demanding specs that ruined that game and nothing else. Lots of games have been built with swimming and jumping and everything else you can think of and fail (see reference Aion).
The whole thing for most of us is that if we see no big mess over swimming and jumping we know that they have their minds right. As for innovations in the mmo industry YOU CAN PLAY A PROFESSION AS A CLASS WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED?? Last week we were discussing the combat system and now we got folks scared senseless that their will be no jumping/swimming come get your heads out the gutter cause honestly and I mean this truly IF YOUR WORRIED ABOUT THIS THEN THIS GAME MIGHT NOT BE FOR YOU please consider that before you say anything else.
if immersion = imagining oneself in the world of the game, then how does not being able to swim in a suit of armor ruin immersion? the complaint shdnt be "why can't you swim" it shd be "why cant you drown"
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
Same exact point I brought up, why can't you drown or break a leg when you jump down from a high cliff instead of just losing some HP. If you want immersion this should be in it, you can't just want something in it when there are no repercusions, those games that implement the jump/swim mechanic and they actually use it well thats great, this game does not end of story.
This is what i think about this thread,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swzh0ngMNJo
Hope i added important info that helped out everyone.
So swimming in WoW and other games is bad? Seriously this is your argument? Wow....
There can be lots of reasons that you could swim in armor in a game where magic exists and mortals are as powerful as gods.
I can't believe the logic fail... it's making my eyes bleed.
I think your attitude is pretty sad.
Its one thing to not jump or swim, its another to attack ME because I believe it should be in game..
I dont really care about the game. I do care about the genre and you would think you people would too.
Jumping and swimming are so irrelevant in your eyes, why do you people insist on coming in hordes to attack me?
I think you are little anti social freaks and you try to create a division so as you can own your little sliver of the world rather than share it with the masses.
Once again this thread is about swimming and I cannot understand why you feel it necessary to exclude me from playing the game.
If swimming does not matter to you, then why even post?
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
Nope you are wrong in saying that it makes a game bad, never said that, what I argue is what some people are saying about how it ruins it for them and then say that it is because of immersion or something else like if it was real life.
And if you have read any of my other post on this thread you would know that I played WoW and I totally enjoyed the features there, I loved the swimming because it served a purspose, and the jumping as well because it served a purpose. But all they would need to do would chance a few things and get rid of jumping and swimming in the game and it would make no diffenrence at all, if I could get to where I needed to go then not having jumping or swimming I be fine with it as well. But this is not [insert game here] so it will not play the same, and while you argue about it in 2 months when the game comes out, I will be logging in and enjoying it I hope (you never know might get delayed cause server's broke and all).
Bingo. Finally someone gets what I'm saying here. You got all those other yearly AAA MMOs tittles coming out. Just about every new one gets criticized for being a step behind in many ways and prasied for being step forwards some ways. Now depending how much of a step forward the game is for the genre will determine the kind of success the game will get. Now lets go back here. It goes - EQ, FF11, WoW, GW, LotR, EQ2, AoC, War, Aion, and more. They All have jump. They all give you reasons to use jump from time to time. Sure you can spam spacebar and make it look useless, or you can use it by actually jumping over something to get somewhere else. Now most of those games had swimming too. MMORPGS have been about exploring okay. The devs give you the zones, you explore them. Now heres FF14 - the devs give you the zones, but you can only explore some of it becuase of boundaries that we're placing in the game becuase.... becuase... well IDK why okay quit asking me why we're putting boundaires. See what I mean here. Exploration on land or water and sometimes even the air has been possible in all of these MMOs to date! It's like companies making their yearly AAA FPS games that all atleast have some form of multiplayer attached to them. But one company decided not to impliment (and possibly improve upon) the standard feature (that is typically expected of FPS fans to be present in some form in every new release) then their FPS may not be succesfful and will be critized for being behind the times or steps back in some ways regardless of any step forward with graphics.
Now look at SE's last major realease..... FF13... Yes the graphics were amped up, but it was being criticised alot for being steps back in some ways. Look at review scores for the game. FF13 has some of the lowest scores in the series (not saying the scores are terribly low, just lower than the previous titles). This is mostly becuase the devs decided to make a huge chunk of the game linear in design. Not just the exploration but other features felt linear as well. They said it was their design choice and look at how it it's been criticised post launch.... Their excuse for this was to focus on story. Now if the story was any better than it is then I woulda justified this design choice more but FF13 has some bad characters/storytelling. More so than previous entries so all that linearity made it worse.
Now look at Bungie. They're making their latest Halo game in the series. And it looks to be a step forward in just about every way. You guys know that this game will probably get the higest rating in the series as well as being successful. Why of why did the devs at Bungie decide to improve on the features and standard designs of the previous titles and FPSs in general. Why didn't they just only improve on some of it and just leave things like the boundaires or the limitations of the Forge mode in. Forge was Halo 3's map editor and it restricting in many ways. Bungie decided to say "why not" and took away these restrictions with Halo Reach's new Forge feature. AKA good design choice. So lets say they decided to leave it in its restrictive state (ala jumping/swimming FF11 - FF14) and release the game with the same old Forge... Bad design choice. Would it be criticised? Yes. Players and critics will see that Bungie didn't take steps to improv on the restrictive mode and they will be disappointed. Of the entire game? No, since other aspects would be improved like graphics but they would still criticize that feature. Believe me it is the same with every new sequel. FF14 will launch and many people will enjoy some of the newer things, but will see that SE didn't improv upon those outdated standard designs (those boundaires ive been talking about) just as every player of any previous AAA MMO title has done once they come out, people play them, and notice new things while also noticing the limiting features or out dated designs that were not improved upon and THEY ALWAYS have to end up working on the features with new patches! Do I really have to bring up examples here???? As soon as Aion launched and players couldnt go further than 10ft in those tons of bodies of water, it felt limiting and some players complained. The devs went like "oh, so they want to be able to go pass those invisible walls to explore the waters as well as everything else" so they got back to work on it.
In the end, we will see how it goes. Maybe by some odd chance, no one will compain about the boundaries SE is putting in its own game. And itll never get implimented. Sure it never got implimented in FF11, but that was way back then where alot of other MMOs during that time had the same restrictions( less character control). It's 2010 and just about every new AAA atleast has these standard features in some form (and improved upon in some cases) and the devs for upcoming AAA MMOs aren't blind. They see the demand for these standard features and are working on them/making them better before launch instead ditching them until the point where players are going to end up asking for them anyway. Those games will come out and will be praised for these steps ahead.
Because it diverts money and resources to developing a mechanic that adds nothing to the game.
FFXIV is what it is. It does not have jumping or swiming two months from release. It will not have jumping or swiming for the foreseeable future.
If they ever add jumping or swiming, it wont' be for years down the line. If that's what are after, you will have to wait a long time.
Long story short, people who want jumping or swiming in FFXIV are like the "old man yelling at clouds" scenario from the Simpsons.
Complain all you want.... SE made the decision a long time ago. The FFXIV producer even laughed during one of the interviews when asked the question on "jumping."
I think he has the perfect response to these types of questions.
It just seem to me a bunch of FF XI vet and/or people that played WoW as well as any other MMORPG with jump/swim feel the need for carebear actions.
Let's just say if you don't have what it takes to walk around the lake, you don't have what it takes to play this game.
Well that doesn't give any true reason other than you are siding with the company rather than your fellow players.
Keep supporting companies that refuse to push the experience forward. Its your money, but I still think your a sucker, and one of two things will happen.
FFXI will die from all their subs going to XIV, or the XI people will not like XIV and stay with XI because by dividing the gamers and putting invisible walls up, is not going to expand they're player base.
So you can stick to your simple minded argument but I believe that simple decision will cost SE dearly. Well see in a year.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
I am on the side that likes to be able to jump and swim as it adds a bit more life to the game, at least to me it does. If i see a river or log on the ground I would rather swim through it or jump over it rather than walk around. Makes the world seem more real as those are both things we can do in reality.
Now I can see the reality of not being able to jump or swim as well if wearing heavy plate armor. obviously the armor will weigh a person down keeping them from easily jumping, and will cause them to sink like a rock if trying to swim. The freedom of being able to jump and swim in a game world just makes things feel more, well free and less artificially restricted though.