There's a reason why the US is the world's only remaining super power, but when compared to most other countries academically, our results are terrible. We don't force people to think, since capitalism shows that adapting to the person is more profitable then forcing the person to adapt to you.
It's not my intention to hijack this thread into polytics, but your remark made me laugh. I agree to your remark, but not about the US being the only super power. Azia has enough soldiers to occupy the whole world but their economy doesn't require them to start and support new wars like the USA does.
Number of soldiers does not a super power make. Also, Asia is not one country, nor is it monolithic in purpose and thought. Many of the countries in Asia do not even like each other.
To me Hardcore is/was important because the accomplishments are/were that much more sweet.... albeit we didn't have ACTUAL on-screen messages telling us we accomplished things either. I really don't know of any current games I would consider "hardcore" anymore. Most every game, even those who sought at launch to be hardcore (Yes Vanguard, I'm looking at you!) have given in to the masses and wholly catered to the lowest common denominator. Sure, it's good for the bottom line, but leaves players like me with a sour taste in our collective maws.
I'm still holding out that some developer will cater to the hardcore crowd and ignore all the whining and protest. They won't do it for money, but for the love of the genre and the players who will thank them. Sure, we'll pay a monthly fee like anyone else... but without making it easy to solo from 1->max and without giant arrows and map markers for quest trails it doesn't appear that any real money can be made.
To me it is actually not all that hard to define hardcore in a general sense which would apply to most people's inherent definition of hardcore : Hardcore (to me) means doing whatever is necessary to be in the top 10 to 15% of a game's population. Generally, (to me) hardcore only refers to (to use wow as a reference) arena ratings or boss kills, but it could very well mean more than that. It could mean .. everything. Achievements, gold, constantly speaking in a scotish accent ..
Warcraft is too easy except that it takes 30 - 40 people who don't suck, have good internet connections, and can put aside their ego for more than a millisecond at a time. The people are what make the current games hard. The games themselves are basically very simple. Until there is an outdoor raid boss that can spawn at 4am (relative to the intended server's time zone) and requires 75 people to kill it, and drops the best loot, or loot necessary for the next instance, there will continue to be no truly hardcore game. Whereas pvp can be hardcore in the dumbest, easiest game imagineable, pve these days is watered down to the point of idiocy (face-mashing monkeys) at this point.
I used to play for hardcore. I probably never will again. It was fun, but there are a lot of other ways to spend your time. Now I just have fun playing a game with my friends for a few hours a week. Difference is I don't expect the best rewards (read the same rewards as the hardcore folks) as most casual people do.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
That's an ironic game to pick for your question, since only hardcore JRPG people would be playing that game due to it's license, or would recognize where the license is even from.
Agreed the author is either incredibly ignorant or is trying to make a dim-witted point about hardcore being a stupid mindset. Hardcore does not neccessarily relate to the content of a game but rather to the player and how fast the player progresses through game content and if the player can over come the more difficult challenges in terms of both skill and grinding. Ironically the author also chose World of Warcraft, which at one point may have been considered a hardcore game when it containted 40 man raids, most MMO players would agree that WoW does not require or cater to hardcore players.
games these days can be picked up by just about anyone and jumped into with little to no previous knowledge of how mmos work and do pretty well
spell clickers rather then key binders, casting threw damage , gear set based games that let better equipped less skilled players to defeat better skilled players with sub par equipment..etc..etc..
i'll let the forum patrol flame me and continue on, baby is crying o_O
Too expound a little more on your points. Things in MMOs now adays are spoon fed to everyone. There is no mystery anymore you have a Journal that gives you clear directions on where you should go and how you should go about completing your task. Quest givers now have little things floating above their heads and are now marked on a map. It makes the whole experience cumbersome in that you are no longer immersed in the world but now are just following the bread crumbs from place to place.
Back in the old days of EQ there really was immersion into the game, you had to either find out for yourself or learn from a verteran on the do's and dont's of the game. In some respects EVE is like this as well. But basically there are very few games out there that immerse the player. It's all finish NPC A quests then go find NPC B with the floaty above his head and complete his quests, wash rinse and repeat this cycle 100's of times over....
Then you take the models reskin them and repeat them into a whole host of variations of the same theme and wonder why us MMO players are such a bunch of sour pusses.
Final Fantasy 11 had no yellow ! , was and still is imo a fun game, populations just not there anymore. They should take the servers and merge them into a handful of servers. Back when I played there was around 3-5k people online during peak hours,now its around 750-2k depending on server.
"Hardcore" to me has become a description of a playstyle as opposed to a description of a game. A game may support the "hardcore" playstyle, but I'm not sure "hardcore" can describe a game itself as if you adopt my view then any game can be "hardcore". "Hardcore" in my opinion has several aspects. The simple answer is I have a tough time describing it, but I know it when I see it. With that said I'll try to put some boundaries in there for a definiition.
First I recognize "hardcore" as doing that one aspect of a game to the exclusion of all else that does not advance you in that chosen aspect. For example if you are a "hardcore" PvP player then you will ignore all aspects of the game that do not advance your goal of being ranked among the top PvP players in the game. A hardcore PvP player will view PvE as at worst a waste of time or at best a way to obtain trinkets and gear that advance them in their PvP pursuits.
Second I recognize "harcore" as a belief that the game must "punish" those who fail to achieve the goals of the chosen aspect of the game. It's much more sanguinary than "Oh, I got kicked to the bindstone." "Harcore" means that victory can gain you something tangible and that loss costs something tangible. I think everyone would agree that corpse looting is a "harcore" mechanic while a simple ghosted corpse run is on the other side of the scale. Getting locked out of a PvE instance for a month if you die to the final boss would be considered "hardcore" whereas a simple "Go back to the start of the crawl" might be considered less so.
Third I recognize "hardcore" as a commitment to spend a disproportionately large portion of one's game time on that particular game mechanic. A "hardcore" raider in WoW spends his or her game time on running the instances or preparing to run the instances. "Nights off" are rare and it requires a personal commitment to endure the farming and preparation and be present for the raids. The player's enjoyment of the game is derived from fulfilling the personal commitment.
Fourth there is an "exclusivity" or "elitism" element to "hardcore" that blends in with the commitment requirement of "hardcore". No eveyrone can be in the club because if they are then the idea of "hardcore" breaks down. It's not "hardcore" if everyone who logs on for 30 minutes a week can do it. To be in the "Hardcore" playstyle club the player must show the commitment to that aspect of the game and may be derided for not putting in the commitment those that espouse the "hardcore" doctrine do. Use of catch phrases like "L2P" and "noob" and "bads" and "zergers" and even the term "casuals" can be indicators of a "hardcore" playstyle. "Hardcore" playstylists tend to wined up grouped together so long as it furthers their goal in the chosen mechanic. Like any other game mechanic guilds or friends that do not further the goal of the individual player are quickly discarded in favor of others who's commitment matches those of the "hardcore" playstyle player.
Fifth there is a "study" aspect to "hardcore". A "hardcore" playstyle requires not only the commitment in game, but a commitment outside of the game as well that is measured in study of game mechanics or whatever aspects of the gmae that someone intends to be "hardcore" in. "Hardcore" inevitablely requires "Min/Maxiing" as any game mechanic that does not further the players goal in the chosen area must be either adjusted or discarded. The player must have "the" spec and "the" gear etc necessary to be tops at that chosen aspect.
Finally there is a "Phyched Up/Burnt Out" cylce aspect. Since hardcore requires high commitment, energy, time and sacrifice it inevitably leads to two things. The newest members of the "hardcore" playstle club have the most energy, drive and highest commitment while those who have been at if for a while are subject to a "burnout" where they no longer wish to be "hardcore" anymore. At this point there may be attempts to reconnect with old "non harcore" friends or reroles to new servers for a "fresh start". After a time a player might return ot the "hardcore" playstyle, select another area to be "hardcore" in or simply reject the "hardcore" playstyle all together.
Within those parameters any game can be considered "hardcore" so long as it supports that kind of playstyle.
Very well said! I was thinking much the same: hardcore/casual are terms that describe playstyles, not games, and that theoretically any game can fall under one or the other method of play...although more complex games will naturally cater to the "hardcore" mindset, on average.
There must be in-game consequences for sufficient lack of skill in playing the game (not game knowledge or character abilities or possessions - player skill) to cause a character to fail to succeed in a situation where it is reasonably possible.
*Failure due to lack of knowledge that is not actively disclosed to you (on the screen) at the gameplay points which lead to your character's failure does not qualify - the game designers have no right to punish you for not remembering this or that part of the intro, looking things up on the boards, or downloading third-party tools to optimize your character's attributes or equipment (I'm looking at you, Eve Online ), etc.*
The consequences must be sufficient to cause risk to or loss of significant in-game rewards, either past, present or near-term. Character progress in terms of possessions, attributes, and ability to advance in the near-term all qualify as in-game rewards, and the amount must be sufficient to cause a setback in progress that will take at least 20-40 minutes of active gameplay to redress.
Gameplay rewards:
Character rewards for gameplay must be in such proportion to player skill and time spent so as to create a feeling of accomplishment in the player equal to or greater than the effect of the reward on the character's ability. Significant gains must be limited to 20% of one character ability or attribute and require the player to demonstrate peak play levels during the gameplay leading to the reward of at least 90% as well as the character can be played (considering attributes and equipment), The reward amount must decreasing by at least half for each 10% decrease in the player's recorded skill (playing 80% as well results in a 10% gain, 70% a 5% gain, etc.).
The gameplay time required for gains must equal at least two minutes of active gameplay for each 1% of the character's attribute gain. The player must demonstrate the above-defined peak play levels for at least 25% of the gameplay time spent achieving the reward objective (not contigously, measured as peaks occur) in order to qualify - i.e. a 40-minute session during which the player demonstrates the above-defined skill levels for 10 minutes total during that time is needed to obtain the reward.
Let me know if you'd like clarification on any other points
In Length, and as to why this is, and what this means:
I've always seen FInal Fantasy XI as a Hardcore game, and anyone who plays the game can completely agree. Of all the MMORPGs all the market, EVE Online excluded, none compare to the level insainity that Final Fantasy XI has put on the table. Why did I exclude EVE? Both of these games has been considered to be in the same teir of MMOs. The people who play it, and dig it, have been playing for over six years and just can't stop.
These games are more than just games, they've been designed to be completely virutal replacements for reality. The term 'time skink' is an underestimation. Often, people referr to FInal Fantasy XI as a "grind" but actually, the game's grind isn't too bad. It can be difficult, yet - but once you find a nitch and a method, you can get anywhere pretty quickly when it comes to levels. But finding that nitch can takes months, if not years of learning.
A game like that is completely unforgiving, even from the first moment you step outside of the first city with a brand new character. You're going to get your butt killed by the first monster you attack. Not because you made a bad choice, heck it's supposed to be weaker than you - it's because the game is not balanced for a new player.
It's a little known fact that each monster is balanced based on the very best advanced class, wearing the very best equipment for your level, and all the accessories and defenses possible. If a player with that much going for him can kill the monster with ease, then it's considered: Easy Prey.
The game doesn't con the monster's difficulty based on your character alone. But the game has way too much content, and each thing takes several real-life months to accomplish. The time you put in, doesn't reflect the reward or effort. You can send a couple of hours just traveling from point A to point B to group at Point C. Spend another hour waiting for a camp to open up, then spend another three hours fighting at that camp: That's 6 hours of play time right there. And technically, you've accomplished little-to-nothing at all.
To get access to anything in the game, even basic levels to progress; you have to do quests. Quests which offer no reward in experience or money, just the reward of being able to 'continue' with the game. Ever little thing must be unlocked via Quest. So a new player jumping is is looking a world of locked doors. They can't even play the class they want to play until they at LEAST get level 30, and you have to unlock that first at level 20!
Solo-style play is next to impossible for 90% of the game. You are 100% dependant on team mates and team work. Groups are not silent affairs. If you know what you're doing, people will respect you for taking the time to do your homework, and do your job right - and they'll want you to come back and play with them often.
You can lose yourself to this. And forget just how much time it's taking to get even the most simple task done.
You have to treat virtual plants like real plants and feed them and water them every REAL LIFE day. If not, they'll die.
You have to treat your Chocobo like a real Chocobo and feed it every REAL LIFE day. If not, it'll die or at least become sick and slow when he grows up.
Late game becomes a job. You work by a schedule, have to be on time every day, and stay for at least 8 hours to perform your in-game duties.
Crafters have to work by the moon phases, which can take two real-life weeks to fully adjust correctly.
There is just no time for Real Life.
It's either Final Fantasy XI or Real Life. You can't have both. Pick one life, and live it.
That's Hard Core.
What's good about it?
In my opinion, it's not good. But that doesn't excuse or over-look the fact that I spent five years of my life in the game. It's game I love, but it's also a game I hate just as much as I love it. The overall 'feel' of the game kept bringing be back, but the sheer level of difficulty of the content kept me there. I once thought that the difficult challange was what kept me coming back for more punishment. Yet then I got my hands on Final Fantasy XIV and realized that no, difficult, punishing, MMO experiences may not be all that matter to some people.
To me, it was FInal Fantasy''s look. The graphics and more importantly, the Texture. People say "Final Fantaasy XI looks ugly, it's behind the times. It's out of date.. etc" But you know, it has so many little things just right, In my eyes it's still ahead of its time. I wish more people would create an MMO that looks and feels like Final Fantasy XI - not the gameplay, I mean the handling.. the UI, The character class systems, the abilties, the combat, the summon system, and team-based combat. No MMO has yet to reproduce it, or even try. It's brillant, but I guess people just can't see the jewel.
Final Fantasy XIV doesn't have that feeling, it's just more of the same difficult hellish quest-to-unlock the world machine. It lacks the depth and feel of Final Fantasy XI's UI and mechanics, and I'm getting a feeling it's going to fail.
The term "hardcore" is rather diffusing than clarifying. I would classify some older CRPGs as hardcore, since they have some frustrating game mechanics (area effect spells affect friends and foes alike, characters could be killed permanently, etc.). Most MMOs have toned down such game mechanics due to the possibility of griefing or connection issues.
IMHO required time, regular playing schedule or gear treadmill turn a game more into some kind of unpaid job (well, in effect you're paying both with time and money to be able to play) instead of a hardcore game.
Time invested in game + jobless/uneducated tools playing it = no chance for newbies + harsh death penality = hardcore game
In otherwords, a hardcore game is one that is catered to those who don't have a life outside of MMOs and can play 10+ hours a day + living off wellfare.
Oh cry more. Just because you aren't able to compete with certain players doesn't make them social rejects. Sounds like you're just a bit butthurt.
Oh cry more. Just because you aren't able to compete with certain people doesn't in real life doesn't make them bad players. Sounds like you're very butthurt.
it provides some sense of satisfaction upon the completion of achieving certain challenging goals which goes into the debates on what satisfies you personally be it progression, social aspects, pvp, etc.
why is it bad?
the divisions between the good aspects and possibly the popularity of gaming nowadays.
everquest solved the problem of divisions decently with servers- blue servers easy mode (non pvp)- red servers medium and hard mode (team pvp, free pvp)-- whether or not a game can be labled hardcore is more difficult and i wont go into that.
edit*- stop with all the new age terms (u mad? QQ (crying eyes for those of u that dont get it, turn of your game or uninstall it) learn to trash talk, its a vital part of gaming and can be mature and intelligent if u let it be.
I've been playing games since I was a baby. I have grown tired with killing things for no "reason". I want to actually risk something when I play. I want others who play to have to risk things as well. I don't care about points. It's the spoils of war that I seek. I think a truly hardcore game will feature perma-death. www.dark-wind.com manages to do this quite well. This game is all about risk. I think some developers should take a good hard look at this small independent title, and see how a well implemented hardcore system can work.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Comments
Bah, incorrect reply usage. My mistake.
Number of soldiers does not a super power make. Also, Asia is not one country, nor is it monolithic in purpose and thought. Many of the countries in Asia do not even like each other.
This thread makes me miss pre-PoP EQ
To me Hardcore is/was important because the accomplishments are/were that much more sweet.... albeit we didn't have ACTUAL on-screen messages telling us we accomplished things either. I really don't know of any current games I would consider "hardcore" anymore. Most every game, even those who sought at launch to be hardcore (Yes Vanguard, I'm looking at you!) have given in to the masses and wholly catered to the lowest common denominator. Sure, it's good for the bottom line, but leaves players like me with a sour taste in our collective maws.
I'm still holding out that some developer will cater to the hardcore crowd and ignore all the whining and protest. They won't do it for money, but for the love of the genre and the players who will thank them. Sure, we'll pay a monthly fee like anyone else... but without making it easy to solo from 1->max and without giant arrows and map markers for quest trails it doesn't appear that any real money can be made.
To me it is actually not all that hard to define hardcore in a general sense which would apply to most people's inherent definition of hardcore : Hardcore (to me) means doing whatever is necessary to be in the top 10 to 15% of a game's population. Generally, (to me) hardcore only refers to (to use wow as a reference) arena ratings or boss kills, but it could very well mean more than that. It could mean .. everything. Achievements, gold, constantly speaking in a scotish accent ..
Warcraft is too easy except that it takes 30 - 40 people who don't suck, have good internet connections, and can put aside their ego for more than a millisecond at a time. The people are what make the current games hard. The games themselves are basically very simple. Until there is an outdoor raid boss that can spawn at 4am (relative to the intended server's time zone) and requires 75 people to kill it, and drops the best loot, or loot necessary for the next instance, there will continue to be no truly hardcore game. Whereas pvp can be hardcore in the dumbest, easiest game imagineable, pve these days is watered down to the point of idiocy (face-mashing monkeys) at this point.
I used to play for hardcore. I probably never will again. It was fun, but there are a lot of other ways to spend your time. Now I just have fun playing a game with my friends for a few hours a week. Difference is I don't expect the best rewards (read the same rewards as the hardcore folks) as most casual people do.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
The game is Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine, the only online Devil Summoner/Persona game I know of.
That's an ironic game to pick for your question, since only hardcore JRPG people would be playing that game due to it's license, or would recognize where the license is even from.
Agreed the author is either incredibly ignorant or is trying to make a dim-witted point about hardcore being a stupid mindset. Hardcore does not neccessarily relate to the content of a game but rather to the player and how fast the player progresses through game content and if the player can over come the more difficult challenges in terms of both skill and grinding. Ironically the author also chose World of Warcraft, which at one point may have been considered a hardcore game when it containted 40 man raids, most MMO players would agree that WoW does not require or cater to hardcore players.
Final Fantasy 11 had no yellow ! , was and still is imo a fun game, populations just not there anymore. They should take the servers and merge them into a handful of servers. Back when I played there was around 3-5k people online during peak hours,now its around 750-2k depending on server.
Very well said! I was thinking much the same: hardcore/casual are terms that describe playstyles, not games, and that theoretically any game can fall under one or the other method of play...although more complex games will naturally cater to the "hardcore" mindset, on average.
Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)
What's so good about Item Shops?
Gameplay consequences:
There must be in-game consequences for sufficient lack of skill in playing the game (not game knowledge or character abilities or possessions - player skill) to cause a character to fail to succeed in a situation where it is reasonably possible.
*Failure due to lack of knowledge that is not actively disclosed to you (on the screen) at the gameplay points which lead to your character's failure does not qualify - the game designers have no right to punish you for not remembering this or that part of the intro, looking things up on the boards, or downloading third-party tools to optimize your character's attributes or equipment (I'm looking at you, Eve Online ), etc.*
The consequences must be sufficient to cause risk to or loss of significant in-game rewards, either past, present or near-term. Character progress in terms of possessions, attributes, and ability to advance in the near-term all qualify as in-game rewards, and the amount must be sufficient to cause a setback in progress that will take at least 20-40 minutes of active gameplay to redress.
Gameplay rewards:
Character rewards for gameplay must be in such proportion to player skill and time spent so as to create a feeling of accomplishment in the player equal to or greater than the effect of the reward on the character's ability. Significant gains must be limited to 20% of one character ability or attribute and require the player to demonstrate peak play levels during the gameplay leading to the reward of at least 90% as well as the character can be played (considering attributes and equipment), The reward amount must decreasing by at least half for each 10% decrease in the player's recorded skill (playing 80% as well results in a 10% gain, 70% a 5% gain, etc.).
The gameplay time required for gains must equal at least two minutes of active gameplay for each 1% of the character's attribute gain. The player must demonstrate the above-defined peak play levels for at least 25% of the gameplay time spent achieving the reward objective (not contigously, measured as peaks occur) in order to qualify - i.e. a 40-minute session during which the player demonstrates the above-defined skill levels for 10 minutes total during that time is needed to obtain the reward.
Let me know if you'd like clarification on any other points
What is Hard Core to me?
In short, Final Fantasy XI.
In Length, and as to why this is, and what this means:
I've always seen FInal Fantasy XI as a Hardcore game, and anyone who plays the game can completely agree. Of all the MMORPGs all the market, EVE Online excluded, none compare to the level insainity that Final Fantasy XI has put on the table. Why did I exclude EVE? Both of these games has been considered to be in the same teir of MMOs. The people who play it, and dig it, have been playing for over six years and just can't stop.
These games are more than just games, they've been designed to be completely virutal replacements for reality. The term 'time skink' is an underestimation. Often, people referr to FInal Fantasy XI as a "grind" but actually, the game's grind isn't too bad. It can be difficult, yet - but once you find a nitch and a method, you can get anywhere pretty quickly when it comes to levels. But finding that nitch can takes months, if not years of learning.
A game like that is completely unforgiving, even from the first moment you step outside of the first city with a brand new character. You're going to get your butt killed by the first monster you attack. Not because you made a bad choice, heck it's supposed to be weaker than you - it's because the game is not balanced for a new player.
It's a little known fact that each monster is balanced based on the very best advanced class, wearing the very best equipment for your level, and all the accessories and defenses possible. If a player with that much going for him can kill the monster with ease, then it's considered: Easy Prey.
The game doesn't con the monster's difficulty based on your character alone. But the game has way too much content, and each thing takes several real-life months to accomplish. The time you put in, doesn't reflect the reward or effort. You can send a couple of hours just traveling from point A to point B to group at Point C. Spend another hour waiting for a camp to open up, then spend another three hours fighting at that camp: That's 6 hours of play time right there. And technically, you've accomplished little-to-nothing at all.
To get access to anything in the game, even basic levels to progress; you have to do quests. Quests which offer no reward in experience or money, just the reward of being able to 'continue' with the game. Ever little thing must be unlocked via Quest. So a new player jumping is is looking a world of locked doors. They can't even play the class they want to play until they at LEAST get level 30, and you have to unlock that first at level 20!
Solo-style play is next to impossible for 90% of the game. You are 100% dependant on team mates and team work. Groups are not silent affairs. If you know what you're doing, people will respect you for taking the time to do your homework, and do your job right - and they'll want you to come back and play with them often.
You can lose yourself to this. And forget just how much time it's taking to get even the most simple task done.
You have to treat virtual plants like real plants and feed them and water them every REAL LIFE day. If not, they'll die.
You have to treat your Chocobo like a real Chocobo and feed it every REAL LIFE day. If not, it'll die or at least become sick and slow when he grows up.
Late game becomes a job. You work by a schedule, have to be on time every day, and stay for at least 8 hours to perform your in-game duties.
Crafters have to work by the moon phases, which can take two real-life weeks to fully adjust correctly.
There is just no time for Real Life.
It's either Final Fantasy XI or Real Life. You can't have both. Pick one life, and live it.
That's Hard Core.
What's good about it?
In my opinion, it's not good. But that doesn't excuse or over-look the fact that I spent five years of my life in the game. It's game I love, but it's also a game I hate just as much as I love it. The overall 'feel' of the game kept bringing be back, but the sheer level of difficulty of the content kept me there. I once thought that the difficult challange was what kept me coming back for more punishment. Yet then I got my hands on Final Fantasy XIV and realized that no, difficult, punishing, MMO experiences may not be all that matter to some people.
To me, it was FInal Fantasy''s look. The graphics and more importantly, the Texture. People say "Final Fantaasy XI looks ugly, it's behind the times. It's out of date.. etc" But you know, it has so many little things just right, In my eyes it's still ahead of its time. I wish more people would create an MMO that looks and feels like Final Fantasy XI - not the gameplay, I mean the handling.. the UI, The character class systems, the abilties, the combat, the summon system, and team-based combat. No MMO has yet to reproduce it, or even try. It's brillant, but I guess people just can't see the jewel.
Final Fantasy XIV doesn't have that feeling, it's just more of the same difficult hellish quest-to-unlock the world machine. It lacks the depth and feel of Final Fantasy XI's UI and mechanics, and I'm getting a feeling it's going to fail.
The term "hardcore" is rather diffusing than clarifying. I would classify some older CRPGs as hardcore, since they have some frustrating game mechanics (area effect spells affect friends and foes alike, characters could be killed permanently, etc.). Most MMOs have toned down such game mechanics due to the possibility of griefing or connection issues.
IMHO required time, regular playing schedule or gear treadmill turn a game more into some kind of unpaid job (well, in effect you're paying both with time and money to be able to play) instead of a hardcore game.
Oh cry more. Just because you aren't able to compete with certain people doesn't in real life doesn't make them bad players. Sounds like you're very butthurt.
what is hardcore?
a difficulty setting.
why is it good?
it provides some sense of satisfaction upon the completion of achieving certain challenging goals which goes into the debates on what satisfies you personally be it progression, social aspects, pvp, etc.
why is it bad?
the divisions between the good aspects and possibly the popularity of gaming nowadays.
everquest solved the problem of divisions decently with servers- blue servers easy mode (non pvp)- red servers medium and hard mode (team pvp, free pvp)-- whether or not a game can be labled hardcore is more difficult and i wont go into that.
edit*- stop with all the new age terms (u mad? QQ (crying eyes for those of u that dont get it, turn of your game or uninstall it) learn to trash talk, its a vital part of gaming and can be mature and intelligent if u let it be.
I've been playing games since I was a baby. I have grown tired with killing things for no "reason". I want to actually risk something when I play. I want others who play to have to risk things as well. I don't care about points. It's the spoils of war that I seek. I think a truly hardcore game will feature perma-death. www.dark-wind.com manages to do this quite well. This game is all about risk. I think some developers should take a good hard look at this small independent title, and see how a well implemented hardcore system can work.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"