F2P is suddenly becoming the 3D of movies it seems.
I do not approve of F2P that have other content in the cash shop. I would hate nothing more than to walk up to a dungeon and be stopped to have to purchase the content. HOWEVER if it's done in the way Guild Wars was done an a few other I'm sure (maybe LotRO is doing it the GW way) then I have no problem with it what so ever. I think F2P is great. But hate how some games try to implement it. You can actually end up spending more money in a shorter time than a constant 12.99 over the course of a couple years.
I assume this is so the delvopers can get more money now since you will probably leave the game after a few months or a couple years at most. Still it all depends on how it's done... I don't like how Sony is doing it from what I'm reading.
F2P is suddenly becoming the 3D of movies it seems.
I do not approve of F2P that have other content in the cash shop. I would hate nothing more than to walk up to a dungeon and be stopped to have to purchase the content. HOWEVER if it's done in the way Guild Wars was done an a few other I'm sure (maybe LotRO is doing it the GW way) then I have no problem with it what so ever. I think F2P is great. But hate how some games try to implement it. You can actually end up spending more money in a shorter time than a constant 12.99 over the course of a couple years.
I assume this is so the delvopers can get more money now since you will probably leave the game after a few months or a couple years at most. Still it all depends on how it's done... I don't like how Sony is doing it from what I'm reading.
To be fair, the casuials have been paying for the hardcore for decades. Now, the hardcore would be required to pay for what they consume.
"In a subscription based game, you are overcharging half your playebase, and undercharging the rest".
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
F2P is suddenly becoming the 3D of movies it seems.
I do not approve of F2P that have other content in the cash shop. I would hate nothing more than to walk up to a dungeon and be stopped to have to purchase the content. HOWEVER if it's done in the way Guild Wars was done an a few other I'm sure (maybe LotRO is doing it the GW way) then I have no problem with it what so ever. I think F2P is great. But hate how some games try to implement it. You can actually end up spending more money in a shorter time than a constant 12.99 over the course of a couple years.
I assume this is so the delvopers can get more money now since you will probably leave the game after a few months or a couple years at most. Still it all depends on how it's done... I don't like how Sony is doing it from what I'm reading.
To be fair, the casuials have been paying for the hardcore for decades. Now, the hardcore would be required to pay for what they consume.
"In a subscription based game, you are overcharging half your playebase, and undercharging the rest".
I think if you look at how much of the total mmo is focused on casual play versus how much really requires hardcore play you will see that the majority of mmos cater to casual play.
To me it doesn't look like anyone is funding anyone else.
Didnt they just say a month ago this was never going to happen to EQ2. SOE needs to burn in flames and cannot believe people still play their games.
No...they didn't. Apparently you people whining and bitching about this have problems READING.
They are not offering EQ2 as free to play. They are offering EQ2 Extended as, essentially, a very very extended TRIAL of the game....free. It doesn't affect EQ2 subscribers in any way, shape, or form. There are no "free to play" players on my server, and there won't be. Like the exchange servers....the f2p server(s)....is/are an entirely different thing.
And just FYI... a lot of us still play EQ2 and give our hard earned money to SoE every month because WE LIKE THE GAME. Seriously....the veteran subscriber base of EQ2....we're pretty hardcore about our game. You can play whatever you want, but I'll take my chances and stay with this outstanding game....thank you very much.
Finally a company does the f2p addition to subscription models RIGHT....and people still bitch. Amazing.
If in the comming months they are merging servers on the subscription side, because soe enticed all the new players to play on fee2play servers and the subscription community is leaving they dieing servers as well, lets see if you still think soe is doing things the right way.
This is nothing more than an end around maneuver to make EQ2 a subscription + full blown cash shop game. It even gives less to subscribers on the free to play side.
That statement makes it pretty clear that you have no idea of what you speak, dieing servers? At three o-clock central time this morning I made a new alt and every single server was rated "HEAVY" lol. On A.B pretty much every zone has multiple instances running at every hour of the day to cope with the load.
Honestly I don't care about the free to play servers because they will not affect my game play at except maybe bringing in more cash for bigger expansions and such.
That statement makes it pretty clear that you have no idea of what you speak, dieing servers? At three o-clock central time this morning I made a new alt and every single server was rated "HEAVY" lol. On A.B pretty much every zone has multiple instances running at every hour of the day to cope with the load.
Honestly I don't care about the free to play servers because they will not affect my game play at except maybe bringing in more cash for bigger expansions and such.
I would just like to point out that soe was just talking about merging the servers last April. Unless you want to think the developers have no idea either I think my statements have some foundation. I didn't say the servers are dead right now, but there are enough that are not doing so well. Again, that comes from the EQ2 team, not me.
Go log on another server and tell me how many multiple instances you see. If ALL of the servers are heavy, they should all be like AB which is listed as heavy, right? Perhaps the server load listing isn't representative of the volume of players on the server.
However I said IF they are merging servers in the coming months, because the free to play servers have attracted current players and the bulk of new players, then yes the current servers will die. If you eliminate new players to a server and only allow players to transfer off of those servers, then what else would you expect to happen?
F2P is suddenly becoming the 3D of movies it seems. I do not approve of F2P that have other content in the cash shop. I would hate nothing more than to walk up to a dungeon and be stopped to have to purchase the content. HOWEVER if it's done in the way Guild Wars was done an a few other I'm sure (maybe LotRO is doing it the GW way) then I have no problem with it what so ever. I think F2P is great. But hate how some games try to implement it. You can actually end up spending more money in a shorter time than a constant 12.99 over the course of a couple years. I assume this is so the delvopers can get more money now since you will probably leave the game after a few months or a couple years at most. Still it all depends on how it's done... I don't like how Sony is doing it from what I'm reading.
The way you hate is similar to the way LOTRO is doing. In LOTRO you can walk up to the dungeon, but you cant get any quests for it.
EQ2 is making everything EXCEPT the current expansion free.
What sony is doing is similar to this. I am going to use a WoW analogy because its a common game most have played.
For free you can only wear green and blue quality *dropped* items and equip green quality weapons. For a 1 time $10 fee you can equip blue quality dropped weapons. All crafted stuff looks to be fair game (so crafted purples). You need to subscribe the normal rate to be able to wear dropped purples.
So basically for completely free you can do almost all of the single group content. Tougher heroics would be very challenging. Given that crafted purples are fair game you could probably even get far in Naxxramas. For $10 you can easily clear Naxx, and for a challenge be able to tackle Ulduar and ToC. ICC is probably off limits to all but the full members. And you need to pay an extra $20 to have access to the current years expansion (cataclysm).
Now also keep in mind EQ2s endgame is much bigger than WoW's, and the previous content isnt trivialized as fast.
Also if you played for free you would only have access to: Warrior, Rogue, Mage, Priest, and Druid. Only Humans, Dwarves, Orcs and Undead would be available. You would be capped at about 15g per level/60g per level at $10. You would have access to only silk bags.
The restrictions are a little annoying at times, but more workable than the normal f2p options for sure. However the amount of content available without even paying the $10 is staggering.
I would just like to point out that soe was just talking about merging the servers last April.
No, actually SOE was doing no such thing. There were a lot of player rumors, but that has been going on since the 2nd week.
And like others have noted, I have seen a big increase lately in population - just made a new char a couple days ago, and even Befallen - one of the lowest pop servers - was showing yellow.
That statement makes it pretty clear that you have no idea of what you speak, dieing servers? At three o-clock central time this morning I made a new alt and every single server was rated "HEAVY" lol. On A.B pretty much every zone has multiple instances running at every hour of the day to cope with the load.
Honestly I don't care about the free to play servers because they will not affect my game play at except maybe bringing in more cash for bigger expansions and such.
I would just like to point out that soe was just talking about merging the servers last April. Unless you want to think the developers have no idea either I think my statements have some foundation. I didn't say the servers are dead right now, but there are enough that are not doing so well. Again, that comes from the EQ2 team, not me.
Go log on another server and tell me how many multiple instances you see. If ALL of the servers are heavy, they should all be like AB which is listed as heavy, right? Perhaps the server load listing isn't representative of the volume of players on the server.
However I said IF they are merging servers in the coming months, because the free to play servers have attracted current players and the bulk of new players, then yes the current servers will die. If you eliminate new players to a server and only allow players to transfer off of those servers, then what else would you expect to happen?
See in four years of playing this game i've never once seen that mentioned on the forums by any DEV or CSR, it may have been a player rumor but there are never any servers that show low population in the list and they only reflect who is on atm, not how many total characters are on that server.
Like the poster above me said, i've only been seeing more and more new players over the last year since WoW is apparently waning popularity amongst it's players.
I would just like to point out that soe was just talking about merging the servers last April.
No, actually SOE was doing no such thing. There were a lot of player rumors, but that has been going on since the 2nd week.
And like others have noted, I have seen a big increase lately in population - just made a new char a couple days ago, and even Befallen - one of the lowest pop servers - was showing yellow.
"We are considering server mergers but they would be a little down the road. Before we consider any more mergers, databases need to be upgraded and general server performance needs to be addressed. " -Rothgar
Sorry, but SOE did in fact say it. People are always claiming big increases, new player bonanzas, etc. I'm not saying you are lying or that your impressions are not what you feel them to be, but these claims can be seen echoed in star wars, in vanguard, in warhammer, in eq, in conan, in ddo and every other game that has had declining populations that lead to server mergers. There are always people that feel these games are growing when they are not.
I would just like to point out that soe was just talking about merging the servers last April.
No, actually SOE was doing no such thing. There were a lot of player rumors, but that has been going on since the 2nd week.
And like others have noted, I have seen a big increase lately in population - just made a new char a couple days ago, and even Befallen - one of the lowest pop servers - was showing yellow.
"We are considering server mergers but they would be a little down the road. Before we consider any more mergers, databases need to be upgraded and general server performance needs to be addressed. " -Rothgar
Sorry, but SOE did in fact say it. People are always claiming big increases, new player bonanzas, etc. I'm not saying you are lying or that your impressions are not what you feel them to be, but these claims can be seen echoed in star wars, in vanguard, in warhammer, in eq, in conan, in ddo and every other game that has had declining populations that lead to server mergers. There are always people that feel these games are growing when they are not.
SOE also said EQ2 would not be going F2P - in June!
after all that has transpired with SOE throughout the past 5 years, if they make an announcement that states that players will benefit from whatever they are "proposing" or saying, expect the opposite.
if you interpret the announcement as being a positive step for the game you play, uninstall it immediately and unsubscribe.
I feel really bad how your community is getting gouged. 200.0 a year or no support. 4 characters and if you want more you have to pay. 25.00 mounts. Free to play should be renamed . I am really sorry for you guys and gals who committed so much time.
If i already bought the complete series, right through Shadow Odyssey, will I have access to those races in Extended since it's tied to my Station account?
Does anyone know the answer to this? it's been bugging the crap outta me.
I feel really bad how your community is getting gouged. 200.0 a year or no support. 4 characters and if you want more you have to pay. 25.00 mounts. Free to play should be renamed . I am really sorry for you guys and gals who committed so much time.
Well it isn't effecting the existing subscription players at all so not sure why you feel sorry for them at least as far as the costs go and the $200 a year is about the same as having a subscription so that is a push. The lower levels don't cost as much and you get less for it but this is pretty standard as a way to use free to play to introduce new players to a game and then to convert them to paying players at some point.
My issue with the free to play announcement is that SoE is creating new servers for this and not having the new players join existing ones. But the potential killer here is that SoE is going to allow character copies (intact except for the money) from the old subscription servers to the new free to play servers which has a huge potential of draining off existing players without adding very many new ones to those servers. Bad idea Sony.
If i already bought the complete series, right through Shadow Odyssey, will I have access to those races in Extended since it's tied to my Station account?
Does anyone know the answer to this? it's been bugging the crap outta me.
According to the matrix they used, I would say yes. It says specifically that all entitlements from any previously purchased expansions will carry over to EQ2X, but the only confusing thing is most of the races were a part of the original release - not 'entitlements' based on an expansion. I would like to think they will give us access to it, but the odd thing is that new players could buy regular expansions without getting most of the races from then on, since most of the races aren't listed specifically tied to any of the expansions. DDO did not allow you access to previous entitlements, as I had created a monk on a subscription and was subsequently locked out of it as soon as the F2P of DDO arrived. Hopefully SOE won't handle it the same way, although worst case scenario means I will only be able to play the full game while subscribed just like it is now. Not a big deal to me.
Edit: Actually, I take that back about races/classes not being tied in to expansions. Every instance of expansion content I see advertised lists a certain amount of race/class combinations under the features, so they should be including these 'entitlements' for all current subscribers transferring to the EQ2X servers. They could technically pull the "Content is subject to change at any time" from the EULA, but that'd kinda suck if they did. I just wouldn't be interested in the EQ2X servers if that were the case, which might be a good thing because a lot of people would have ample incentive to stay on the EQ2Live servers instead.
I think this is great news, as a long time EQ2 player.
I can continue to play on my server with my friends, where there is a very nice friendly mature playerbase, and everyone there has earned everything they have, and the game gets a nice new cash injection by way of opening a set of casual servers, which costs very little for the company. In addition, F2P games traditionally have to keep adding new and exciting content to keep those casuals coming back - which in turn they also apply to the live servers, boosting the game for subscription players.
Those who are complaining that it's not 100% free to play on the new casual servers - why should it be? This is a business, just like all MMO companies, and they have found (potentially) a way to allow me to play the way I want, and to make money without increasing my subscription.
Do I care that someone new who isn't paying a subscription is playing on another server, and that person is able to buy items and characters, or not? No. Not at all. In fact I welcome it.
Why? With lots and lots of new people coming to play it, comes all the increased internet support in the way of databases, websites, guides and so on that would otherwise be withering. With it comes increased pressure on the development team to support and update the game on a rapid basis. And should it prove to make money, with it comes the potential that other games like Vanguard will go the same way.
I only see this as a positive for the game, and for MMO's in general.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
I think this is great news, as a long time EQ2 player.
I can continue to play on my server with my friends, where there is a very nice friendly mature playerbase, and everyone there has earned everything they have, and the game gets a nice new cash injection by way of opening a set of casual servers, which costs very little for the company. In addition, F2P games traditionally have to keep adding new and exciting content to keep those casuals coming back - which in turn they also apply to the live servers, boosting the game for subscription players.
Those who are complaining that it's not 100% free to play on the new casual servers - why should it be? This is a business, just like all MMO companies, and they have found (potentially) a way to allow me to play the way I want, and to make money without increasing my subscription.
Do I care that someone new who isn't paying a subscription is playing on another server, and that person is able to buy items and characters, or not? No. Not at all. In fact I welcome it.
Why? With lots and lots of new people coming to play it, comes all the increased internet support in the way of databases, websites, guides and so on that would otherwise be withering. With it comes increased pressure on the development team to support and update the game on a rapid basis. And should it prove to make money, with it comes the potential that other games like Vanguard will go the same way.
I only see this as a positive for the game, and for MMO's in general.
Great way of looking at it IMO. Change is inevitable, but it's nice that we have a choice this time instead of how they handled SWG. This is SOE making changes for profitability and growth, while still allowing us to keep the 'classic' servers and preferred subscription model. Maybe they are learning after all.
I feel really bad how your community is getting gouged. 200.0 a year or no support. 4 characters and if you want more you have to pay. 25.00 mounts. Free to play should be renamed . I am really sorry for you guys and gals who committed so much time.
Try to not be a complete idiot. If you play for an entire year, the $200 is CHEAPER because it includes the expansion.
I swear the average IQ of people around here is below 30. Ive seen people say this model is worse than Lotros. You can not do much in Lotro past lvl 20 with their system. This system you can do almost everything from 1-80.
And omg $25 mounts. What kind of moron would complain about extra game funding for a completely optional, cosmetic thing? The biggest reason why SoE has such a bad rep isn't because of NGE. its because people are stupid. If this wasnt the case where is Lucas Art's bad rep? NGE was their doing as much as SoEs. Wheres Blizzards bad rep? They lie to their customers, charged $25 for mounts first, and dont develop nearly as much content for their game as SoE. I think SoE clearly has its issues, but not to the level that people make it seem. They are no worse than any other company, and actually listen to their customers a lot, although that usually gets them in trouble (see EQ1 changes that people asked for, they implemented, and now people hate)
I feel really bad how your community is getting gouged. 200.0 a year or no support. 4 characters and if you want more you have to pay. 25.00 mounts. Free to play should be renamed . I am really sorry for you guys and gals who committed so much time.
Try to not be a complete idiot. If you play for an entire year, the $200 is CHEAPER because it includes the expansion.
I swear the average IQ of people around here is below 30. Ive seen people say this model is worse than Lotros. You can not do much in Lotro past lvl 20 with their system. This system you can do almost everything from 1-80.
And omg $25 mounts. What kind of moron would complain about extra game funding for a completely optional, cosmetic thing? The biggest reason why SoE has such a bad rep isn't because of NGE. its because people are stupid. If this wasnt the case where is Lucas Art's bad rep? NGE was their doing as much as SoEs. Wheres Blizzards bad rep? They lie to their customers, charged $25 for mounts first, and dont develop nearly as much content for their game as SoE. I think SoE clearly has its issues, but not to the level that people make it seem. They are no worse than any other company, and actually listen to their customers a lot, although that usually gets them in trouble (see EQ1 changes that people asked for, they implemented, and now people hate)
Well, he neglects to mention the additional expansion, and that the extra 60 dollars, from 140 to 200, pays for the 500 SC per month. I'm somewhat surprised they backed off the 20 shared slots so quickly - I'm willing to be that comes back later on as a perk.
I'd wish that the SC in the Platnium level was a perk, and not a purchase, but it's balanced.
The entire issue, which is either danced around, or danced ON, is that you have access to the SC powerleveling tools that EQ2X will offer. If you are player who can treat those purchases as Petty Cash (and, let's face it, there is ample proof of that subset of players existing) then it's ideal for your playstyle. It's whether the implementation kills the existing Live servers in the process that's the big question - will the exodus happen, to EQ2X and/or the cancel button?
Well, he neglects to mention the additional expansion, and that the extra 60 dollars, from 140 to 200, pays for the 500 SC per month. I'm somewhat surprised they backed off the 20 shared slots so quickly - I'm willing to be that comes back later on as a perk.
I'd wish that the SC in the Platnium level was a perk, and not a purchase, but it's balanced.
The entire issue, which is either danced around, or danced ON, is that you have access to the SC powerleveling tools that EQ2X will offer. If you are player who can treat those purchases as Petty Cash (and, let's face it, there is ample proof of that subset of players existing) then it's ideal for your playstyle. It's whether the implementation kills the existing Live servers in the process that's the big question - will the exodus happen, to EQ2X and/or the cancel button?
Excellent answer. . thank you. This was the detail I was looking for. The seperate servers will certainly make it more interesting. . also coming out before LOTRO goes live with F2P. . wonder if they will bump that up.
I feel really bad how your community is getting gouged. 200.0 a year or no support. 4 characters and if you want more you have to pay. 25.00 mounts. Free to play should be renamed . I am really sorry for you guys and gals who committed so much time.
Try to not be a complete idiot. If you play for an entire year, the $200 is CHEAPER because it includes the expansion.
I swear the average IQ of people around here is below 30. Ive seen people say this model is worse than Lotros. You can not do much in Lotro past lvl 20 with their system. This system you can do almost everything from 1-80.
And omg $25 mounts. What kind of moron would complain about extra game funding for a completely optional, cosmetic thing? The biggest reason why SoE has such a bad rep isn't because of NGE. its because people are stupid. If this wasnt the case where is Lucas Art's bad rep? NGE was their doing as much as SoEs. Wheres Blizzards bad rep? They lie to their customers, charged $25 for mounts first, and dont develop nearly as much content for their game as SoE. I think SoE clearly has its issues, but not to the level that people make it seem. They are no worse than any other company, and actually listen to their customers a lot, although that usually gets them in trouble (see EQ1 changes that people asked for, they implemented, and now people hate)
What happens if you decide to step down from platinum service to gold service? Sounds like you will lose access to any expansions that you have not directly purchased. It sounds like you rent access to those expansions and lose access to them with anything but the platinum service, but I could be wrong.
I'm a little fuzzy on all the conditions of each free to play option, but I think you can earn most/everything in DDO (maybe lotro too) without spending money. Both models have merit on their own so far, but neither have been stood up to the test of what players think. Still to early to tell.
As for $25 mounts, SOE had a cash shop long before blizzard and soe promised the players RMT would never be in EQ/EQ2 in any way shape of form. That isn't a promise blizzard ever made and they were pretty upfront about it coming (I still hate it), but Blizzard didn't pave the way for soe. Soe was already heavily into microtransactions in the game.
Soe gets a bad rap, because of how soe runs their business and not something lucas arts did. Take this issue for example. The lead producer just a month ago said they were not changing the subscription plan of the game. Sure it was stated in a very crafty way so that they can say "see we didn't YOUR subscription plan", but it was lying through omission. These changes were already being planed and coded when he made those comments while he was decieving the players who asked if the game was going free to play. It was a bullshit thing for the brand new lead producer to do.
Dropping this announcement two weeks before it goes live also says soe doesn't care for the current players feedback. If they did, they would have put this through a long extended beta (like turbine). On top of that why remove the free trial to the legacy servers and only allow transfers to the new free servers? What message is that sending to the current loyal customers?
Honestly it feels like soe goes out of its way to piss their customers off, even when they are doing something right.
I happen to agree not mmorpg should be 100% free to play because it indeed is business and as an AI student who has friend who may one day be working on games i'd like to see them make a living in the future.
1. He claims that the restrictions put in place by the item and spell restrictions are bigger than they really are. they are only big to people that have played it before. Those that havent wont notice nearly as much and will just have a more challenging, but still perfectly playable game. I *have* leveled characters with only adepts. You can do just fine.
2. He says an expansion thats list price was $50 now costs $20. he specifically used amazon, which I just looked at and it costs $36 new plus shipping. Obviously SoE is going to go off the list price as thats what its intended to be sold for, but well say its $40. So even if you dont go by the $15 a month and go buy the $140 bundle, the platinum is $20 more. BUT he also doesnt mention the extra 3 character slots you dont get on the live servers, or the $60 worth of station cash. he also mentions that you get an extra month from buying a new expansion + yearly plan when you do NOT. Free month is only available for your initial game purchase, not any expansion after that.
3. He doesnt understand the competition. He calls Lotro's model 'sensible'. So hed rather have to pay $8 to be able to quest in everfrost? Their inventory restrictions are harsher there and you also have to be your trait slots (per character as I understand it).
4. His one gripe that I fully agree with is no option for people to transfer from extended to live. Although if they allowed it people would complain endlessly about people being able to buy items and then transfer over to other servers.
5. He compares it vs. EQ2Live and not vs. the normal f2p market. Most f2p games make you buy content, or make the game centered around items that you cant feasibly advance without. EQ2 Extended does not do this. You could not pay a cent and have a AAA MMO game right in front of you with more content than most other games have for a monthly fee. You can pay a one time $10 fee and have a large portion of the endgame content doable,again more than you get with most p2p games. Its the best value on the f2p market that i can see, and by a large margin. I will challenge anyone to play eq2 extended for 3 months vs any other f2p game for 3 months and debate this.
I feel really bad how your community is getting gouged. 200.0 a year or no support. 4 characters and if you want more you have to pay. 25.00 mounts. Free to play should be renamed . I am really sorry for you guys and gals who committed so much time.
Try to not be a complete idiot. If you play for an entire year, the $200 is CHEAPER because it includes the expansion.
I swear the average IQ of people around here is below 30. Ive seen people say this model is worse than Lotros. You can not do much in Lotro past lvl 20 with their system. This system you can do almost everything from 1-80.
And omg $25 mounts. What kind of moron would complain about extra game funding for a completely optional, cosmetic thing? The biggest reason why SoE has such a bad rep isn't because of NGE. its because people are stupid. If this wasnt the case where is Lucas Art's bad rep? NGE was their doing as much as SoEs. Wheres Blizzards bad rep? They lie to their customers, charged $25 for mounts first, and dont develop nearly as much content for their game as SoE. I think SoE clearly has its issues, but not to the level that people make it seem. They are no worse than any other company, and actually listen to their customers a lot, although that usually gets them in trouble (see EQ1 changes that people asked for, they implemented, and now people hate)
What happens if you decide to step down from platinum service to gold service? Sounds like you will lose access to any expansions that you have not directly purchased. It sounds like you rent access to those expansions and lose access to them with anything but the platinum service, but I could be wrong.
I'm a little fuzzy on all the conditions of each free to play option, but I think you can earn most/everything in DDO (maybe lotro too) without spending money. Both models have merit on their own so far, but neither have been stood up to the test of what players think. Still to early to tell.
As for $25 mounts, SOE had a cash shop long before blizzard and soe promised the players RMT would never be in EQ/EQ2 in any way shape of form. That isn't a promise blizzard ever made and they were pretty upfront about it coming (I still hate it), but Blizzard didn't pave the way for soe. Soe was already heavily into microtransactions in the game.
Soe gets a bad rap, because of how soe runs their business and not something lucas arts did. Take this issue for example. The lead producer just a month ago said they were not changing the subscription plan of the game. Sure it was stated in a very crafty way so that they can say "see we didn't YOUR subscription plan", but it was lying through omission. These changes were already being planed and coded when he made those comments while he was decieving the players who asked if the game was going free to play. It was a bullshit thing for the brand new lead producer to do.
Dropping this announcement two weeks before it goes live also says soe doesn't care for the current players feedback. If they did, they would have put this through a long extended beta (like turbine). On top of that why remove the free trial to the legacy servers and only allow transfers to the new free servers? What message is that sending to the current loyal customers?
Honestly it feels like soe goes out of its way to piss their customers off, even when they are doing something right.
Of course they dont care. They are going to do what they want to do and tell you how good its going to be for you and the game. Turbine did the same thing. When both companies said that the game wasnt going F2P what they meant was is wasnt going F2P until it does. Ive never in my life hoped for a game to fail but I truly hope that LOTRO and EQ2 both go down the tubes in record time.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
I'm a little fuzzy on all the conditions of each free to play option, but I think you can earn most/everything in DDO (maybe lotro too) without spending money. Both models have merit on their own so far, but neither have been stood up to the test of what players think. Still to early to tell. As for $25 mounts, SOE had a cash shop long before blizzard and soe promised the players RMT would never be in EQ/EQ2 in any way shape of form. That isn't a promise blizzard ever made and they were pretty upfront about it coming (I still hate it), but Blizzard didn't pave the way for soe. Soe was already heavily into microtransactions in the game. Soe gets a bad rap, because of how soe runs their business and not something lucas arts did. Take this issue for example. The lead producer just a month ago said they were not changing the subscription plan of the game. Sure it was stated in a very crafty way so that they can say "see we didn't YOUR subscription plan", but it was lying through omission. These changes were already being planed and coded when he made those comments while he was decieving the players who asked if the game was going free to play. It was a bullshit thing for the brand new lead producer to do. Dropping this announcement two weeks before it goes live also says soe doesn't care for the current players feedback. If they did, they would have put this through a long extended beta (like turbine). On top of that why remove the free trial to the legacy servers and only allow transfers to the new free servers? What message is that sending to the current loyal customers?
Honestly it feels like soe goes out of its way to piss their customers off, even when they are doing something right.
In theory you could buy stuff in DDO without spending money,but as I understand it it requires repeated grinding through quests, deleting a character, grinding through the same quests again, and so on and so on.
As for the microtransaction thing, Blizzard did pave the way. their trading card game was a big success strictly because of the ultra rare mounts. I know of no one that plays the TCG, but know of lots of people that buy the packs. This is even worse than mts, this is mt gambling.
SoE saw this, and ran with it. They thought outside of the box and created it as an online game, and people actually do play it (though most people buy cards just for the mounts and times as well).
Then SoE entered the mt game, and yes before blizzard. however, its been going on for what, 2 years now? theyve kept to their word, its only cosmetics. people may hate the principal, but no one truly hates the impact its made on the game.
And the big difference between SoE and blizzard with this is that SoE spends far more of their resources developing the game than Blizzard does. Blizzard release an incomplete expansion every two years and filters out their raid content over time to let people think they are getting updates all the time. Yes, they release a high quality product, but for two years between expansions they arent enough. They make 2 billion a year from wow, can make a couple million with limited effort (see sparkle pony release day), yet cant hire more of a development team? Oh but they are too busy working into their social network crap that most people do not want. How about making a game where account hacking is to the point where its *common* for a guild member to get hacked, even with a fully protected computer, *more safe* instead of *less safe*. But no, lets make everyone use their email address to log in with as opposed to a created account name.
Basically, Blizzard is a company that has seemingly just as little respect for its people as SoE yet doesnt get its bad rap. people dont reach to blame Blizzard for faults that arent their own to the extent they do with SoE. If you want to hate SoE and refuse to play their product, thats a reasonable choice. but to go off and play another MMO is in almost all cases just 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Comments
F2P is suddenly becoming the 3D of movies it seems.
I do not approve of F2P that have other content in the cash shop. I would hate nothing more than to walk up to a dungeon and be stopped to have to purchase the content. HOWEVER if it's done in the way Guild Wars was done an a few other I'm sure (maybe LotRO is doing it the GW way) then I have no problem with it what so ever. I think F2P is great. But hate how some games try to implement it. You can actually end up spending more money in a shorter time than a constant 12.99 over the course of a couple years.
I assume this is so the delvopers can get more money now since you will probably leave the game after a few months or a couple years at most. Still it all depends on how it's done... I don't like how Sony is doing it from what I'm reading.
To be fair, the casuials have been paying for the hardcore for decades. Now, the hardcore would be required to pay for what they consume.
"In a subscription based game, you are overcharging half your playebase, and undercharging the rest".
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I think if you look at how much of the total mmo is focused on casual play versus how much really requires hardcore play you will see that the majority of mmos cater to casual play.
To me it doesn't look like anyone is funding anyone else.
That statement makes it pretty clear that you have no idea of what you speak, dieing servers? At three o-clock central time this morning I made a new alt and every single server was rated "HEAVY" lol. On A.B pretty much every zone has multiple instances running at every hour of the day to cope with the load.
Honestly I don't care about the free to play servers because they will not affect my game play at except maybe bringing in more cash for bigger expansions and such.
I would just like to point out that soe was just talking about merging the servers last April. Unless you want to think the developers have no idea either I think my statements have some foundation. I didn't say the servers are dead right now, but there are enough that are not doing so well. Again, that comes from the EQ2 team, not me.
Go log on another server and tell me how many multiple instances you see. If ALL of the servers are heavy, they should all be like AB which is listed as heavy, right? Perhaps the server load listing isn't representative of the volume of players on the server.
However I said IF they are merging servers in the coming months, because the free to play servers have attracted current players and the bulk of new players, then yes the current servers will die. If you eliminate new players to a server and only allow players to transfer off of those servers, then what else would you expect to happen?
The way you hate is similar to the way LOTRO is doing. In LOTRO you can walk up to the dungeon, but you cant get any quests for it. EQ2 is making everything EXCEPT the current expansion free. What sony is doing is similar to this. I am going to use a WoW analogy because its a common game most have played.For free you can only wear green and blue quality *dropped* items and equip green quality weapons. For a 1 time $10 fee you can equip blue quality dropped weapons. All crafted stuff looks to be fair game (so crafted purples). You need to subscribe the normal rate to be able to wear dropped purples. So basically for completely free you can do almost all of the single group content. Tougher heroics would be very challenging. Given that crafted purples are fair game you could probably even get far in Naxxramas. For $10 you can easily clear Naxx, and for a challenge be able to tackle Ulduar and ToC. ICC is probably off limits to all but the full members. And you need to pay an extra $20 to have access to the current years expansion (cataclysm). Now also keep in mind EQ2s endgame is much bigger than WoW's, and the previous content isnt trivialized as fast. Also if you played for free you would only have access to: Warrior, Rogue, Mage, Priest, and Druid. Only Humans, Dwarves, Orcs and Undead would be available. You would be capped at about 15g per level/60g per level at $10. You would have access to only silk bags. The restrictions are a little annoying at times, but more workable than the normal f2p options for sure. However the amount of content available without even paying the $10 is staggering.
No, actually SOE was doing no such thing. There were a lot of player rumors, but that has been going on since the 2nd week.
And like others have noted, I have seen a big increase lately in population - just made a new char a couple days ago, and even Befallen - one of the lowest pop servers - was showing yellow.
See in four years of playing this game i've never once seen that mentioned on the forums by any DEV or CSR, it may have been a player rumor but there are never any servers that show low population in the list and they only reflect who is on atm, not how many total characters are on that server.
Like the poster above me said, i've only been seeing more and more new players over the last year since WoW is apparently waning popularity amongst it's players.
LINK
"We are considering server mergers but they would be a little down the road. Before we consider any more mergers, databases need to be upgraded and general server performance needs to be addressed. " -Rothgar
Sorry, but SOE did in fact say it. People are always claiming big increases, new player bonanzas, etc. I'm not saying you are lying or that your impressions are not what you feel them to be, but these claims can be seen echoed in star wars, in vanguard, in warhammer, in eq, in conan, in ddo and every other game that has had declining populations that lead to server mergers. There are always people that feel these games are growing when they are not.
SOE also said EQ2 would not be going F2P - in June!
http://www.mmofringe.com/index.php?option=com_joobb&view=topic&topic=2185&Itemid=55
after all that has transpired with SOE throughout the past 5 years, if they make an announcement that states that players will benefit from whatever they are "proposing" or saying, expect the opposite.
if you interpret the announcement as being a positive step for the game you play, uninstall it immediately and unsubscribe.
I feel really bad how your community is getting gouged. 200.0 a year or no support. 4 characters and if you want more you have to pay. 25.00 mounts. Free to play should be renamed . I am really sorry for you guys and gals who committed so much time.
If i already bought the complete series, right through Shadow Odyssey, will I have access to those races in Extended since it's tied to my Station account?
Does anyone know the answer to this? it's been bugging the crap outta me.
Well it isn't effecting the existing subscription players at all so not sure why you feel sorry for them at least as far as the costs go and the $200 a year is about the same as having a subscription so that is a push. The lower levels don't cost as much and you get less for it but this is pretty standard as a way to use free to play to introduce new players to a game and then to convert them to paying players at some point.
My issue with the free to play announcement is that SoE is creating new servers for this and not having the new players join existing ones. But the potential killer here is that SoE is going to allow character copies (intact except for the money) from the old subscription servers to the new free to play servers which has a huge potential of draining off existing players without adding very many new ones to those servers. Bad idea Sony.
According to the matrix they used, I would say yes. It says specifically that all entitlements from any previously purchased expansions will carry over to EQ2X, but the only confusing thing is most of the races were a part of the original release - not 'entitlements' based on an expansion. I would like to think they will give us access to it, but the odd thing is that new players could buy regular expansions without getting most of the races from then on, since most of the races aren't listed specifically tied to any of the expansions. DDO did not allow you access to previous entitlements, as I had created a monk on a subscription and was subsequently locked out of it as soon as the F2P of DDO arrived. Hopefully SOE won't handle it the same way, although worst case scenario means I will only be able to play the full game while subscribed just like it is now. Not a big deal to me.
Edit: Actually, I take that back about races/classes not being tied in to expansions. Every instance of expansion content I see advertised lists a certain amount of race/class combinations under the features, so they should be including these 'entitlements' for all current subscribers transferring to the EQ2X servers. They could technically pull the "Content is subject to change at any time" from the EULA, but that'd kinda suck if they did. I just wouldn't be interested in the EQ2X servers if that were the case, which might be a good thing because a lot of people would have ample incentive to stay on the EQ2Live servers instead.
I think this is great news, as a long time EQ2 player.
I can continue to play on my server with my friends, where there is a very nice friendly mature playerbase, and everyone there has earned everything they have, and the game gets a nice new cash injection by way of opening a set of casual servers, which costs very little for the company. In addition, F2P games traditionally have to keep adding new and exciting content to keep those casuals coming back - which in turn they also apply to the live servers, boosting the game for subscription players.
Those who are complaining that it's not 100% free to play on the new casual servers - why should it be? This is a business, just like all MMO companies, and they have found (potentially) a way to allow me to play the way I want, and to make money without increasing my subscription.
Do I care that someone new who isn't paying a subscription is playing on another server, and that person is able to buy items and characters, or not? No. Not at all. In fact I welcome it.
Why? With lots and lots of new people coming to play it, comes all the increased internet support in the way of databases, websites, guides and so on that would otherwise be withering. With it comes increased pressure on the development team to support and update the game on a rapid basis. And should it prove to make money, with it comes the potential that other games like Vanguard will go the same way.
I only see this as a positive for the game, and for MMO's in general.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
Great way of looking at it IMO. Change is inevitable, but it's nice that we have a choice this time instead of how they handled SWG. This is SOE making changes for profitability and growth, while still allowing us to keep the 'classic' servers and preferred subscription model. Maybe they are learning after all.
Try to not be a complete idiot. If you play for an entire year, the $200 is CHEAPER because it includes the expansion. I swear the average IQ of people around here is below 30. Ive seen people say this model is worse than Lotros. You can not do much in Lotro past lvl 20 with their system. This system you can do almost everything from 1-80. And omg $25 mounts. What kind of moron would complain about extra game funding for a completely optional, cosmetic thing? The biggest reason why SoE has such a bad rep isn't because of NGE. its because people are stupid. If this wasnt the case where is Lucas Art's bad rep? NGE was their doing as much as SoEs. Wheres Blizzards bad rep? They lie to their customers, charged $25 for mounts first, and dont develop nearly as much content for their game as SoE. I think SoE clearly has its issues, but not to the level that people make it seem. They are no worse than any other company, and actually listen to their customers a lot, although that usually gets them in trouble (see EQ1 changes that people asked for, they implemented, and now people hate)Please read this and tell me where he is wrong.
http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2010/07/28/everquest-2-extended-a-deceptive-rip-off/
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Well, he neglects to mention the additional expansion, and that the extra 60 dollars, from 140 to 200, pays for the 500 SC per month. I'm somewhat surprised they backed off the 20 shared slots so quickly - I'm willing to be that comes back later on as a perk.
I'd wish that the SC in the Platnium level was a perk, and not a purchase, but it's balanced.
The entire issue, which is either danced around, or danced ON, is that you have access to the SC powerleveling tools that EQ2X will offer. If you are player who can treat those purchases as Petty Cash (and, let's face it, there is ample proof of that subset of players existing) then it's ideal for your playstyle. It's whether the implementation kills the existing Live servers in the process that's the big question - will the exodus happen, to EQ2X and/or the cancel button?
Avatars are people too
Excellent answer. . thank you. This was the detail I was looking for. The seperate servers will certainly make it more interesting. . also coming out before LOTRO goes live with F2P. . wonder if they will bump that up.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
What happens if you decide to step down from platinum service to gold service? Sounds like you will lose access to any expansions that you have not directly purchased. It sounds like you rent access to those expansions and lose access to them with anything but the platinum service, but I could be wrong.
I'm a little fuzzy on all the conditions of each free to play option, but I think you can earn most/everything in DDO (maybe lotro too) without spending money. Both models have merit on their own so far, but neither have been stood up to the test of what players think. Still to early to tell.
As for $25 mounts, SOE had a cash shop long before blizzard and soe promised the players RMT would never be in EQ/EQ2 in any way shape of form. That isn't a promise blizzard ever made and they were pretty upfront about it coming (I still hate it), but Blizzard didn't pave the way for soe. Soe was already heavily into microtransactions in the game.
Soe gets a bad rap, because of how soe runs their business and not something lucas arts did. Take this issue for example. The lead producer just a month ago said they were not changing the subscription plan of the game. Sure it was stated in a very crafty way so that they can say "see we didn't YOUR subscription plan", but it was lying through omission. These changes were already being planed and coded when he made those comments while he was decieving the players who asked if the game was going free to play. It was a bullshit thing for the brand new lead producer to do.
Dropping this announcement two weeks before it goes live also says soe doesn't care for the current players feedback. If they did, they would have put this through a long extended beta (like turbine). On top of that why remove the free trial to the legacy servers and only allow transfers to the new free servers? What message is that sending to the current loyal customers?
Honestly it feels like soe goes out of its way to piss their customers off, even when they are doing something right.
I happen to agree not mmorpg should be 100% free to play because it indeed is business and as an AI student who has friend who may one day be working on games i'd like to see them make a living in the future.
The Paladin
1. He claims that the restrictions put in place by the item and spell restrictions are bigger than they really are. they are only big to people that have played it before. Those that havent wont notice nearly as much and will just have a more challenging, but still perfectly playable game. I *have* leveled characters with only adepts. You can do just fine. 2. He says an expansion thats list price was $50 now costs $20. he specifically used amazon, which I just looked at and it costs $36 new plus shipping. Obviously SoE is going to go off the list price as thats what its intended to be sold for, but well say its $40. So even if you dont go by the $15 a month and go buy the $140 bundle, the platinum is $20 more. BUT he also doesnt mention the extra 3 character slots you dont get on the live servers, or the $60 worth of station cash. he also mentions that you get an extra month from buying a new expansion + yearly plan when you do NOT. Free month is only available for your initial game purchase, not any expansion after that. 3. He doesnt understand the competition. He calls Lotro's model 'sensible'. So hed rather have to pay $8 to be able to quest in everfrost? Their inventory restrictions are harsher there and you also have to be your trait slots (per character as I understand it). 4. His one gripe that I fully agree with is no option for people to transfer from extended to live. Although if they allowed it people would complain endlessly about people being able to buy items and then transfer over to other servers. 5. He compares it vs. EQ2Live and not vs. the normal f2p market. Most f2p games make you buy content, or make the game centered around items that you cant feasibly advance without. EQ2 Extended does not do this. You could not pay a cent and have a AAA MMO game right in front of you with more content than most other games have for a monthly fee. You can pay a one time $10 fee and have a large portion of the endgame content doable,again more than you get with most p2p games. Its the best value on the f2p market that i can see, and by a large margin. I will challenge anyone to play eq2 extended for 3 months vs any other f2p game for 3 months and debate this.
Of course they dont care. They are going to do what they want to do and tell you how good its going to be for you and the game. Turbine did the same thing. When both companies said that the game wasnt going F2P what they meant was is wasnt going F2P until it does. Ive never in my life hoped for a game to fail but I truly hope that LOTRO and EQ2 both go down the tubes in record time.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
In theory you could buy stuff in DDO without spending money,but as I understand it it requires repeated grinding through quests, deleting a character, grinding through the same quests again, and so on and so on. As for the microtransaction thing, Blizzard did pave the way. their trading card game was a big success strictly because of the ultra rare mounts. I know of no one that plays the TCG, but know of lots of people that buy the packs. This is even worse than mts, this is mt gambling. SoE saw this, and ran with it. They thought outside of the box and created it as an online game, and people actually do play it (though most people buy cards just for the mounts and times as well).
Then SoE entered the mt game, and yes before blizzard. however, its been going on for what, 2 years now? theyve kept to their word, its only cosmetics. people may hate the principal, but no one truly hates the impact its made on the game. And the big difference between SoE and blizzard with this is that SoE spends far more of their resources developing the game than Blizzard does. Blizzard release an incomplete expansion every two years and filters out their raid content over time to let people think they are getting updates all the time. Yes, they release a high quality product, but for two years between expansions they arent enough. They make 2 billion a year from wow, can make a couple million with limited effort (see sparkle pony release day), yet cant hire more of a development team? Oh but they are too busy working into their social network crap that most people do not want. How about making a game where account hacking is to the point where its *common* for a guild member to get hacked, even with a fully protected computer, *more safe* instead of *less safe*. But no, lets make everyone use their email address to log in with as opposed to a created account name. Basically, Blizzard is a company that has seemingly just as little respect for its people as SoE yet doesnt get its bad rap. people dont reach to blame Blizzard for faults that arent their own to the extent they do with SoE. If you want to hate SoE and refuse to play their product, thats a reasonable choice. but to go off and play another MMO is in almost all cases just 6 of one, half dozen of the other.